Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

I signed up for this game because of Irrelephant so I'm looking forward to that too. I hope he's town.

Oh you've played with Irrelephant?

I feel so popular.

Early reads are hard

I’m fine with Shoshin’s push out of RVS. I’m enjoying math’s rapping and will sort him later

@Keyser explain 45 for me?

@Nauci why keep a vote on me after rvs is over and before I’ve posted? Do you have any scumreads yet?

@stun why couldn’t scum Keyser make those posts? Doesn’t seem like it’d be hard

VOTE: Skitter
Just a feeling. y’all should sheep me

[Irrelephant11]

Maybe you had flashbacks..? Did you or didn’t you?

No, Skitter’s response to Shoshin was honestly fine

I don’t like Skitter’s *feel*, though. I’ll explain more later after my read stays the same or changes

You should sheep me though

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin, what do you think of Nauci?

[Irrelephant11]

There’s a northsidegal this game? Huh

Nauci do you have any scumreads? I was hoping we’d be aligned again but you’re not leaning town for me rn. Any townreads you have are also acceptable, with reasons

I’ll join you on stun for a bit, Shoshin

VOTE: Stun

[Irrelephant11]

Feeling currently like Shoshin/Stungun/math has at most one mafiosa. Keyser/stungun/skitter could have as many as THREE but probably not more than like 1.5.

Invis, nsg, Bernie, Mom, I think I want you four to vote or provide a read now. Not sure if there’s someone else. ...If you’re a player reading this like “oh shiz I haven’t posted much he probably means me” then I DO. I DO mean you.

[Irrelephant11]

Hot take: Keyser hasn’t done anything towny yet

@mom (its okay if I call you Mom right), my bad, I kinda forgot about your vote. Still though your posting isn’t much more impressive than Invisibility’s. I’d give everyone the weekend to check in before I’m pushing them for lurking *shrug*

[Irrelephant11]

I’m kinda feeling worse on stun/Nauci/Mom/invis for their “lynch the lurker” votes like 48 hours into a game on the weekend

[Irrelephant11]

@stungun I like Shoshin, you, Bernie, Mom, and Mathdino for town so far, in that order. None of them are particularly strong because few players have said a ton. I was voting you for pressure because it seemed to rattle you, but the rattling had a towniness as it went on.

I feel like conventional wisdom says Keyser is playing in a towny way, but none of the things he’s saying actually feel genuine? To put it another way, his play fits in a town box, but almost seems too perfectly shaped for it. I’m not saying he’s scummy yet, just that I haven’t seen enough to sort.

Pedit: math what are you saying about me there?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh good we’re doin this now VOTE: Skitter

[Irrelephant11]

hi the worst I think we played spyfall one time

Why is Skitter scum

What is Nauci

Who don’t you want lynched today?

[Irrelephant11]

Yes

We’ll talk about Keyser soon

[Irrelephant11]

Man y’all are gonna have such misconceptions about how talkative I am

I only have mobile access on weekends

Get ready for Monday

[Irrelephant11]

Bernie I appreciate you wanting lurkers to not lurk but I find it hard to believe you think everyone who’s posted regularly reads town

Like just the plausibility that the scumteam is all lurkers atm is <1%

[Irrelephant11]

Thanks tw now tell me more about Keyser, what pinged you?

@shoshin i forget let me iso him real quick

[Irrelephant11]

I think 176 was my fav?

Not super confident in any reads yet though like I said

[Irrelephant11]

@Bernie my townlean on you is fading fast, largely due to your really opaque writing. I don’t know whose alt you are, so sorry if this is a big ask and I’m being rude, but could you work on having grammar that makes things clearer? I think it would be pro-town to do so. Like I had to read your last post 6+ times before understanding it.

I saw it suggested somewhere I’m an alt; I’m not.

I liked Mom for pressuring invisibility, unless they’ve played together. As I understand Invis is easy to scumread off tone, so I like that Mom pressured the slot. Mom hasn’t done much else so the townread lasts for now

Bernie is getting harder to read so even though I want to keep him in my townreads it’s hard.

I know there’s more to respond to & say, but I’m on mobile so ttyl fellow presidentes

[Irrelephant11]

What do you think of mom’s choice to fixate only on invisibility so far?

This feels like a weird turn from “momrangel came back with a bang” (the post implies a town Mom and a push on Shoshin) to now, where you’re kinda asking town Shoshin to scumread Mom?

Really doesn’t feel like genuine sorting.

VOTE: Keyser

[Irrelephant11]

Sure,

His 31, 88, 89, 210, and 414 feel overly performative.

he ignored my question in 91 while showing in his 144-147 that he’d read the whole game

That thing I just pointed out


...that’s it. *shrug*

But oh I thought tw was still voting him. It’s boring being the only vote for him rn so I’ll go back to VOTE: skitter because I feel confident town can pressure nsg and any other lurkers without me and I want more from skit

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant11 (in a passive aggressive way, trying to win them over)

Yeahhh fine you can sit in my nulls for now, but I'm not letting you get away with a unanimous "Keyser ends his sentences with question marks which is what town would do" so watch out

Momrangal(4) ~ northsidegal(4), the worst(48), skitter30(41), stungun0404(28)

Pretty sure this has a scum in it so let's talk about that

Maybe you had flashbacks..? Did you or didn’t you?

No, Skitter’s response to Shoshin was honestly fine

I don’t like Skitter’s *feel*, though. I’ll explain more later after my read stays the same or changes

You should sheep me though

I don't know what *feel* means

--

Feeling currently like Shoshin/Stungun/math has at most one mafiosa. Keyser/stungun/skitter could have as many as THREE but probably not more than like 1.5.

how did you determine these groups?

1. *feel* was referring to your word choices. You've used "I don't think/I don't feel" "I'm not sure/I'm not seeing" "This doesn't/isn't" like SO much that I'm having trouble knowing what you DO think/feel/see and that comes across as somewhat intentional, given how much you've done it.

2. something something re-reading early posts something something shoshin/math and shoshin/stun really didn't look like early s/s and stun and dino both seemed independently towny

and then I was sorta light-scumreading all three of the second list and there was nothing to indicate they had different alignments

but also mostly I said it for the SPICE

But oh I thought tw was still voting him. It’s boring being the only vote for him rn so I’ll go back to VOTE: skitter because I feel confident town can pressure nsg and any other lurkers without me and I want more from skit

not really sure what you want from me tbh? i feel like I have a lot of readable content

This is true and I'd been skimming. Still not townreading you because I do still have bad feels about your posts, but,

Nauci is actually reminding me completely of our scum game together: "casual" as a way of seeming town without doing much work
VOTE: Nauci

[Irrelephant11]

I mean, okay, but,

this is how he plays

so we should


just

Spoiler:

sort

clear him

[Irrelephant11]

I was just thinking about how I would hurt and offended and sad if Shoshin weren't town so I did an ISO and found these questions

Shoshin, what do you think of Nauci?

I got nothing yet. You?

Irrelephant, any thoughts on Stun's 109?

that I didn't respond to

but also now I've talked about Nauci I guess and I like 109 for feeling like a confused townie who's throwing out ideas (v. certain scum trying to sell lies)

[Irrelephant11]

hey it's mom. Hi Mom!!!!

Who on your wagon do you think is scum? because prolly one of 'em, regardless of your alignment

[Irrelephant11]

@mom I can answer 475 with "none" just to save KS the trouble

I think Skitter belongs in everyone's scumlean pile, but I don't actually know if that's because she's scum. I shared some stuff about her last page.

I don't think she's scum with you (early argument with you), me (lol), math (early argument with you), stun (283 (Sidenote: I do like 283 from her)), or Bernie (330)

so if any of those flip red I'd townlean her, till then though that basically means "I don't think she's scum with my townreads" which is kinda meaningless

Her reads in 376 are lame.

Interactions between her and Keyser feel stiff and I can't decide whose fault it is, or maybe both

[Irrelephant11]

I can't read the worst tell me more

[Irrelephant11]

also shoshin, you trying to call the scumteam D1 reads as scummy and is my least fav thing you've done this game

I think playing with you I'll just always get hot flashes of paranoia, won't I

Like what if you're buddying me and really good at it
Oh well. It's honestly fine for now if it's true
Consider me buddied, we're buddies now. Buddied up from now till lylo see you then <3

[Irrelephant11]

@brassherald

is proxying allowed when NOT v/la? Like can one player just give another player their vote temporarily for whatever reason?

No, I will only allow that for V/LA. If you are here, there is no reason you cannot just follow their votes, proxying is only if you are unavailable to post.

Shoshin are you townreading gamma

[Irrelephant11]

alright cool

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we're buddies and we figured it out

[Irrelephant11]

thanks brass

[Irrelephant11]

ha. naaaa. Just means I like Shoshin for perceptive town more than I like you for scum.

you're funny though, we can be friends if not buddies

[Irrelephant11]

The Planeteers are growing quite fond of you too.

Get out of here with this ish this is completely irrelephant

what does skitter > nauci mean

which one's the towny side

[Irrelephant11]

I mean, right, I understand that contextually you were disagreeing with people. My problem was with how you seemed to spend most of your time disagreeing with people, often in a non-committal "I dunno..." kind of way that shuts things down, rather than making assertions/questions that generate discussion and help to eliminate posscumbilities.

I get why you wouldn't like me backing off. I'm just being honest, though - I wanted enough content from you to determine if my feel on your posts stayed the same. When I voted you, because I had been skimming and ISOing, I didn't notice that you did indeed already have enough to get a read. It's still a scumlean for me. But also, I've been scumreading Nauci for awhile and liked the wagon there more than the me/keyser one on you.

pedit: this is all a response to the end of 511.

[Irrelephant11]

Your meta-tell must be strong for Nauci. Impressive if you caught scum in a few posts.

reminding myself to respond to this later

[Irrelephant11]

heyyyy rude can you do that

[Irrelephant11]

pedit: I would be somewhat confused/surprised if skitter and keyser were aligned at this point. Mayyyybe t/t but then I have really weird scumteams in my head. Then again nsg replaced out and maybe she woulda been the more active mafiosa so we'll see how her replacement does

[Irrelephant11]

do you often ignore questions? It's very hard getting you to answer things directed straight at you)

I will vouch for the fact that this is true of town Shoshin, and is part of why I'm having an easier time townreading her than most players

[Irrelephant11]

Or, *than some players

since it seems like a solid 1/2+ the player list leans her town atm

[Irrelephant11]

Just making sure im not misgendered (again ) carry on

come on y'all it's mom not dad

[Irrelephant11]

yay welcome back friend

I'm voting you

[Irrelephant11]

Bernie I'm about to check out for the day (except maybe some mobile posts later)

I agree my vote on Skitter looks bad. I already said that, though (515). It came from skimming and ISOing players too much (also from some synaesthesia-based player confusion) at the time and I just remembered "hey I wanted more from skitter before lemme vote there", then later I realized the content I was asking for had already shown up.

I do feel good about a Keyser vote but I feel better about a Nauci vote. It feels like none of my townreads think Keyser is scum and he hasn't done enough to deserve me tunneling him. I've got time to return to him later with a real case if it still stands so for now I'm voting my scummier read: Nauci.

kbye

[Irrelephant11]

@Skitter

Wait but I did ultimately provide those thoughts tho right? Like I talked about the *feels* and I actually explained them and related them to your early posts and how you continued to do it as you posted and I didn't like that but didn't think it was enough to be sure you're scum esp. given you had a good response

@Bernie

haha okay
that's sort of a continuation/joking about the last game we were in together, just me having fun

You seem to think some of my posting is "fake" but haven't said if you scumread it or not. Are you waiting for someone else to do that for you?

[Irrelephant11]

Okay... I didn’t actually say or suggest that but okay.


Math when you get srs on wednesday can you drop the rapping

It’s been fun but I’ll have more fun if you make a transition to being clearer at some point

[Irrelephant11]

We’re going in circles now Skitter. I shouldn’t have voted you to get more content (something I did kinda by mistake). There was enough content. This is why I unvoted when you pointed that out.

I wanted more content to see if the “I don’t/I’m not” pattern continued, and it sort of did, but then you explained it and now you’re a nullread

I think we agree this all happened. Is there something scummy here I still need to address or something you don’t understand?

[Irrelephant11]

And I’m emphasizing that that makes sense. I’ll trust that i come across towny enough otherwise to deserve a townread overall

[Irrelephant11]

Well that sure is a bunch of words about me that make it easier for y’all to want to lynch me

Hey at least now you can all probably see that me/Nauci isn’t s/s wooo

Re:hard lesson about lurkers/not lurkers: we didn’t actually teach the lesson you’re saying we did though (that lurking is a cover for a scum player) because your slot and mine were the two most middle-of-the-road in terms of post count. Hm. I believe town-you would be paranoid of me (you said as much before we signed up) but I’m not sure I’m convinced you actually scumread me?

I’ll wait to say more till you’re caught up; I only responded because how dare you sully my good name

[Irrelephant11]

welp no time like the pres

id

ent

Mod has to step in to fix this? Smh.

Benny Frank is disappointed

[Irrelephant11]

If anyone wants reactions from me regarding any specific Nauci points, just ask. I had the same thought as Shoshin, overall - Nauci knows I'm better than this as scum (not to mention the help I'd be getting from most possible scummates on a playerlist that averages pretty talkative & experienced). I'm messy, unfocused, and acting overconfident, and it's because I'm still figuring out how to play as town.

Your meta-tell must be strong for Nauci. Impressive if you caught scum in a few posts.

reminding myself to respond to this later

My response here is that I wanted pressure on Nauci to determine her alignment, but as someone mentioned already it doesn't work if you present it as pressure. I actually *didn't* have a good feel before these long posts. Her scumread of me feels fake, though. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but that would require something like "well maybe if she had thought it through more" which, clearly, I was actually #1 on her mind (I'm flattered btw). Not townreading Nauci rn.

More thoughts on all players coming soon

[Irrelephant11]

jk reads coming later, gotta go

[Irrelephant11]

I think it's a really good point about the purported sloppiness, and it does give me pause. But my read was *despite* it: I feel like there is a pattern of trying to delegitimize stronger players and avoid attacking certain ones that speaks to protecting teammates and leaving things open to scum read people, and that the sloppiness is a result of disingenuous reasoning to keep those options open.

(yes still fronds)

I am working on evaluating all players, already said that. obviously this conversation is distracting from that, tho

I think it's a really good point about the purported sloppiness, and it does give me pause. But my read was *despite* it: I feel like there is a pattern of trying to delegitimize stronger players and avoid attacking certain ones that speaks to protecting teammates and leaving things open to scum read people, and that the sloppiness is a result of disingenuous reasoning to keep those options open.

1. this first sentence feels like a scumslip, though not enough of one for a whole read obviously. "That IS a good point, but my read WAS dependent on ignoring that" shows you had already thought of this before you posted your read of me. Then when shoshin pointed it out you had to acknowledge it as new information while trying to get others to ignore it.

I think one thing we both need to take into account (if you're town) is that we said multiple times last game "I'm playing exactly like how I would as town lol" so maybe when some things look the same we should consider they might actually be from town. (re:"scumread sounds fake")

I recognize that "I look scummy so I must be town" is a bad argument. The argument

I'm trying to make

though is "My play shows a lack of concern for how I come across, which isn't scummy".

If we're both town, this is gonna be a struggle.

But... I'm still not convinced you are, so bring on the tunnel. Hopefully it at least makes other players' ability to read us easier.

I don't know what 706 is referring to?

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant, you haven't played mafia on a different site?

Nope. A completed scum game and a partial town game is all I got
Oh and loads of IRL play

It's referring to your claim that your teammates would be helping you polish, which would imply day chat

oh interesting, actually wow it's v towny of you to point that out unless scum don't have daychat.
wait except you asked the mod the same question in our last game to look towny

I regret signing up to play with Nauci when we'd only ever seen scum!eachother

[Irrelephant11]

btw if the goal was to make me feel pressured and off balance I sure do feel that way nauci

I'm at work like

[Irrelephant11]

Stuck on mobile for the rest of the night we’ll see how this goes

Alright, cool. So Nauci, Skitter, and the worst as scum? I think that makes the most sense at this point.

Still plausible

Reads:
Mathdino - innocent until proven whack
Nauci - feels like she’s looking for my lynch, not my alignment. Possibly over tunneling as town though I’m not ready to say that my green flip means she’s 100% scum. She is playing somewhat different from last game but idk what to do with that info since she knows I’d recognize her scumgame if she copied it. Scummy.
skitter30 - man how do you separate someone scumreading you from scumreading them back I’m not used to people thinking I’m scummy so I’m trying hard to read him aside from that. I also feel similar about Skitter/Nauci as they seem to feel about me/Shoshin. They’re weirdly buddy-y (though admittedly less intense than I have been with Shoshin), which imo would suggest they’re not both scum? Has anyone here experienced scum “matching reads” and buddying each other in this subtle way before? Null for now.
Momrangal - out of the murky lurkers (Invis, the worst, nsg, gamma), my towniest read. Has provided real reads and the playing (pushing Invis with vote, etc) seems mildly town-motivated
Shoshin - town. Playing exactly like our last game, and she’s killin’ it. I think we should all sheep her honestly
Bernie Sanders - more likely town, but I’m actually struggling to maintain any sort of read. Null, leaning town.
Invisibility - i wanted him to be town but he’s done little to show it. Null, because Invis
the worst - I wanted him to be town but he’s done little to show it. Null, leaning scum.
stungun0404 - town. lemme know if you’re behind and need this explained
nsg is a ?
Keyser Soze - I can’t get this idea that your posting seems fake out of my head. Null, but I’m returning to this before EOD.
Gamma Emerald - Done next to nothing towny all game. Scummy.

Re: 745 - oh shiz I forgot this was theme game with options of not 10:3

Honestly I think I’ll stay on a wagon on a player I find scummy with players I don’t find scummy, so no vote movement here.

[Irrelephant11]

Ugh Nauci you’re sounding towny sometimes but you keep calling for my lynch and it doesn’t feel like you actually think I’m scum you just want me lynched and I want us both to be town but we’re never gonna be able to work together if we are, are we

[Irrelephant11]

What are the odds Nauci is an Irrelephant11 Lyncher

[Irrelephant11]

stay tuned for part 2, kiddlydinks!

Wait I thought this would have happened by now

[Irrelephant11]

Can we just stop and talk about how Nauci and I played *one game* (my first game!) together? I readily admit I don’t have a magic way to read her. She seems certain that the ways I’m playing like last game are sure indicators that I’m scum, and the ways things aren’t the same are sure indicators that I’m scum. Like??

Pedit: oh good I would not enjoy if I were the target of a Lyncher

[Irrelephant11]

Okay, but that’s not the case for Nauci

[Irrelephant11]

Right so what do you think about Nauci’s insistence on doing so

[Irrelephant11]

No I felt like we’d reasonably narrowed the pool to five players that had a high chance of flipping red. I also felt confident that Shoshin is town and in our last game she was pretty good at discerning things

[Irrelephant11]

Nauci is probably town. 749 discouraging any sort of town player from even crumbing a power role seems like a town-motivated push, not a scum-motivated push. I still need to see more from here, however, to upgrade my read on her.

This is a good point
Hm
You’re perceptive

[Irrelephant11]

I am kinda excited to play with invisibility fwiw

Why?

I was gonna make this post
Forgot
Cool

[Irrelephant11]

I’m thinking, and waiting for Shoshin’s new Skitter thoughts and more of your Nauci thoughts. I also would probably move my vote to either the tw wagon (which is big enough already) or to Keyser, who I’m not ready to case while on mobile.

Getting votes is not my new fav part of playing mafia, guys

[Irrelephant11]

Stungun what do you think of Nauci’s case on me? I know why you’re scumreading me, but she has different reasons, and I’m curious if those come across as genuine to you

[Irrelephant11]

Same


Alright bishes I'm here to play, if Nauci wants me dead this bad the least I can do is make sure my death takes some red flips down with me (whether I'm lynched or NK'd you know what I mean)
Watch me PoE all y'all scum bishes out the game

[Irrelephant11]

No I felt like we’d reasonably narrowed the pool to five players that had a high chance of flipping red. I also felt confident that Shoshin is town and in our last game she was pretty good at discerning things

I think I misunderstood the whole ‘sheep me and Shoshin’ post then.

I don’t think you actually shared the same scum reads as Shoshin (bar your mutual dislike of Nauci, and as expressed by your latest reads list). However, even if you t/read Shoshin hard: that doesn’t mean her reads are going to be any more accurate. So I feel that ‘sheep Me and Shoshin’ invitation was disingenuous (or unnecessary).

Also my response to this is I was sheeping Shosh on the worst, agreed on nauci & skitter, and also agreed on gamma/nsg as not-very-town-either. So basically I couldn't read the worst very well but thought the rest of her list made sense

also my colorful "sheep us" post was only like 80% serious, I'm learning having too much fun gets me scumread my b

[Irrelephant11]

still need your thoughts on skitter town

[Irrelephant11]

Alright bishes I'm here to play, if Nauci wants me dead this bad the least I can do is make sure my death takes some red flips down with me (whether I'm lynched or NK'd you know what I mean)
Watch me PoE all y'all scum bishes out the game

this is by end of workday btw just so I don't get "where's that thing you promised" every couple hours it's something I'm working on in between real life things

[Irrelephant11]

A sidenote while I write about Keyser - these are the three largest wagons so far:

Momrangal(4) ~ northsidegal(4), the worst(48), skitter30(41), stungun0404(28)
the worst(4) ~ Invisibility(28), skitter30(63), Bernie Sanders(81), Nauci(26)
Nauci(4) ~ Shoshin(112), Irrelephant11(62), Momrangal(36), the worst(99)

the worst probably is actually scum

Mathdino
Keyser Soze
Gamma Emerald
^while these three have avoided being on any large wagons


Also if nauci is town this just sucks I thought my play showed my town motivations

If she's scum that makes it easier to reconcile how upset I am about it with how well I thought I'd been playing

...I see now why I am stuck on a nauci scumread let me also start over on her

[Irrelephant11]

Hey Irrelephant, I still want your thoughts on Stun.

working on it. Re-evaluating most slots rn, trying to include things I've been ignoring up till now like vote progressions and associations

[Irrelephant11]

...huh. you should try it

[Irrelephant11]

[Irrelephant11]

what are the odds brass is now looking for replacements for the entire scumteam

[Irrelephant11]

I thought the same thing but it could be game ending or turn this into a 3:7 and either of those situations sounds terrible.

[Irrelephant11]

Well,

anyway,,,

Spoiler: Keyser So Scum

Do you think Skitter is the ‘scum’ who took the bait and nibbled on Shoshin’s early unconventional behaviour?

This is weird why is scum in quotes

Nevermind, just read your “active lurking” post...

One of the only things I'm townreading from keyser

A lot of his early stuff feels careful, like he doesn't want to come across as anything but an observer - never wants heat traced back to him. This is evidenced by the fact that the only player he's voted for is Skitter, also these where he's cryptic

I’ve got a bottom four emerging... unlikely to vote either one yet (this feels too easy).

Invis is town, Keyser. You should take a look at some of his games to ease your paranoia.

I will trust your meta-clear for now. That makes my bottom four a bottom three. Let’s just hope he doesn’t flip scum...


...for your sake

speaking of that vote, the post includes

this works well as skitter30 being the scum who couldn’t resist the bite.

which is worded so weirdly? Like "this works well"??? Not anything like "this is scummy" or even "this is how I read it"

@Shoshin - now’s the time to share that irrefutable meta evidence for town-invisibility.

momrangel actually came back with a bang.

What do you think of mom’s choice to fixate only on invisibility so far?

I already said how these feel fake, and his answer ("I wanted to sit back and watch Shoshin and Momrangel to play out the inner conflict in my head I have over Invisibility.") again shows his unwillingness to do much more than watch

northsidegal

Null read.

Would not vote atm.
Would lynch them over a no lynch though
Contributed nothing to game, and still in RVS (one vote).
Associations paranoia: if Momrangal were to flip scum, this looks bad for northsidegal.
Needs commitment or

replacing

.

Momrangal

Null scum lean.

Would vote.
Would lynch.
The invisibility-tunnel looks bad (regardless if invisibility were to flip town or scum).
5 of her 6 posts have been about invisibility.
No pro-active sorting of the playerlist.
Associations paranoia: Yep, you guessed it, invisibility.
Momrangal needs to show me she is interested in solving the game.

These two feel v safe
The Planeteers are growing quite fond of you too.

Get out of here with this ish this is completely irrelephant

what does skitter > nauci mean

which one's the towny side

It means: Skitter lynch is better than Nauci lynch right now if I had to choose between the two.

Your meta-tell must be strong for Nauci. Impressive if you caught scum in a few posts.

This feels like an attempt to scumread me later if nauci flips town

Wow did not see the Irrelephant11-scum-angle at all. Is it I who has been pocketed??? That is a fresh take I will need convincing on.

This reads as excitement to have the opportunity to scumread me

Unlucky mate, tough replace in. You did your best.

This feels like scum gloating

All of this said, I have a hard time seeing stungun saying what he says as either alignment if keyser is scum
I also don't think keyser is scum with the worst

So, there's that I guess.

Oh also Nauci is probably actually town because scum!Nauci wants me to like her and town!Nauci is actually this paranoid of me. Is Nauci is town skitter probably also is? So that's fun
@Shoshin, I assume the thing you're seeing re:stungun is his weird progressions on the two of us? I could see it in some worlds, maybe.

I think the four replace outs might have two scum

math isn't scum
neither is bernie
I actually think nsg's slot might be town

Sidenote: I have 100% at least once if not more times read skitter posts thinking they were stun posts and stun posts thinking they were skitter posts because synaesthesia

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE:

[Irrelephant11]

Lol “since replacing in” wut

Sorry frond been there

[Irrelephant11]

Welcome Gustavo! Your slot was an interesting one and the circumstances surrounding the replacement even more so. Need any help catching up?

@keyser I just answered that question about Nauci last page, did you see that?

[Irrelephant11]

No it’s just my best effort to remove emotion from my read on Nauci

[Irrelephant11]

I’m gonna take a break from this game for the night

Nauci finding scum motivation for every little thing I do is exhausting, regardless of her alignment

See you tomorrow

[Irrelephant11]

Gustavo, tell me if I'm reading your case on Nauci correctly:

Spoiler:

I dunno about those votes on Nauci. Her recent posts aren't so bad.

But probably should lynch the worst today.

This would have been the perfect time to change your vote. Why didn’t you?

I wasn't done sorting Nauci.

Bad answer. You had doubt and you had somebody you liked better. Protown behavior is to change your vote.

1. She kept her vote on a slot she wanted more information on, rather than one she was more sure was scummy

Spoiler:

uh pardon me since when do you know me well enough that you can tell what's fake from me? o.0

Even this way of defending himself is bullshit. I call something fake, and his response is, "you don't know me well enough to know it's fake." He's not even denying that it's fake... instead he just wants to discredit me...

I don’t even know how you reached that conclusion...

What's your confusion?

It’s like a huge misrep on your part. The worst’s question was valid. He doesn’t have to deny that it was fake. You have the burden of proof to prove it was fake. Innocent until proven guilty

2. She misrepresented this particular post from the worst.

Spoiler:

VOTE: shoshin

He’s not a team player. I ask him a few questions and he flails and votes me. By his own definition of what scum is, he’s guilty of being scum.

I’ll see y’all day 2.

3. Therefore, her actions are not protown, and if you were to read her the same way she suggests reading Not_Mafia, she is scum.

Am I summarizing correctly? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting any of your words.

Assuming you agree that what I said is a good summary...

1. I have voted someone I don't find scummy as scum (duh), and I have voted someone I want to sort as town. Why is this as alignment indicative as you say it is for Shoshin?

2. Why does this moment weigh so heavily for you? I would agree it's not a great argument, but could it not be town tunneling on the worst - or even an accurate tw read?

3. She doesn't suggest reading her the same way she reads Not_Mafia, and I think you know that. Regardless, I'm confident Shoshin is town based on her pro-town play. Why don't others' Shoshin reads seem to affect yours?

Also, Gustavo, what do you think/what have you done with this?

Spoiler:

been deliberating over this for some time, but

@mod: replace me. Also, can I choose to proxy to Keyser until I am replaced?

I really like the flavor of this game, so I’m ashamed I have to do this. If this was my only game, I’d be able to keep up with it, but it’s not. I have another account that I am also playing games on, and i got much going on irl. finding it extremely difficult and as sacrificing too much of my time to keep up with this thread and balance it with other games i’m in rn, but i will make a parting statement. I feel like there’s way too much thread spamming going on, whoever is town should really consider posting less content because there’s way too much unnecessary content being posted in the thread, and it can’t all be from scum. Further, the content is distracting from catching scum.

DEAR WHOEVER REPLACES ME: ONE MISSION; LOOK INTO WHO DIDN’T RESPOND TO MY QUESTIONS, PLEASE!


UNVOTE: Irrelephant



PS(parting statement): KEYSER IS TOWN NO MATTER WHAT; my strongest TR has never EVER been wrong regardless of my own alignment. It has resulted in me replacing into a game on N1 and correctly neighbouring a town player AFTER A D1 scum lynch, and taking full advantage of it to eventually win a game for town in LYLO, so you can trust this read with your life. There’s a definite chance shoshin is scum, but regarding keyser DON’T FALL FOR THE SHIT OTHERS ARE FEEDING YOU RE: HIS READ. SOMEBODY IS ACTIVELY TRYING TO PLANT SEEDS OF DOUBT HIM, AND IT’S WORKING TOO!



/legacy post

[Irrelephant11]

"lying about the game we played" - fair, I haven't read this yet. I'll get back to you

[Irrelephant11]

Btw if you look at shoshin’s town game. His first serious vote on invisibility includes reasons with his vote - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10200938

His 2nd serious vote was on mumble and it included reasons - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10212098

His 3rd serious vote was on me and it included reasons - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10220015

His 4th vote lacked reason but his 5th had some.

Please somebody verify what I’ve just posted and see if what sho says below is truthful.

As you know from Tropical, I don't always state my reasons for voting. So why ask this question?

Spoiler: shoshin votes from that game

VOTE: TheRampage

Rampage is scummier.

This entire sequence lacks internal consistency:

I don't like HF's use of "wtf" - his reaction seems a bit over-the-top.

bad

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

VOTE: Shoshin

By voting me, Invisibility strongly implies that JJD is town.

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

Why is JJD town?

when did I say that JJD was town

But apparently Invisibility never read JJD as town? So the "JJD v Shoshin is not SvS" statement is bullshit...

not really?

i just said it wasn't SvS because it didn't seem like a scum and a scum talking to each other.

And when poked, he denies reading JJD as town. This is an actual example of an internal inconsistency, as Invisibility behaves as if JJD is town yet doesn't want to actually take that stance. And if anyone thinks I'm avoiding questions, take a look at this: Invisibility clearly doesn't want to admit what his behavior so clearly demonstrates.

Invisibility, what's your read on JJD? If the conversation wasn't SvS, what was it? SvT? If so, why aren't you townreading JJD? And why are you scumreading me?

feel kind of weird about him but that situation brings him to a townlean. it was either SvT or TvT but, given the people he spoke with, it was probably SvT

He feels "weird" about JJD... and the Shoshin-JJD interaction is either "SvT or TvT" but he's voting me?

VOTE: Invisibility

VOTE: Rampage

VOTE: Invisibility

VOTE: Mumble

From the way he's playing, he's clearly implied that Invisibility is town in a way that suggests he's pre-inclined to do so (either because Invisibility is his partner, or because he knows Invisibility is town). He read Garuga as scum, he read me as scum, and he jumped on the Rampage lynch when it was popular to do so. In other words, he's voting townies. And he's obscured his alignment by keeping his thoughts to himself, and when pushed to offer some thoughts, he's refused. He'd rather vote me to answer his questions than actually say who he thinks is scum, or vote whoever he thinks is scum. Also, note how he's still voting with support in HF - never making decisions without someone else pursuing the same things. It's time for him to offer some thoughts on the game that don't consist of pointless questions or voting popular wagons or voting without any semblance of a scumhunting mindset. Also, consider how terrible his vote on me is - voting because he doesn't want to offer his own thoughts about the game before I answer more of his questions, as if somehow I'm scum because I want to know his thoughts on the game uninfluenced by my answers).

Gustavo, what's your read on Invisibility?

Town

Why?

Cause my top scum read scum reads him.

VOTE: Gustavo

There's no way a townie is so confident I'll flip scum that Gustavo bases an entire read on a major wagon (Invisibility) on a surface-level observation that I've scumread the guy, while ignoring Invisibility's actual behaviors. I'd lynch Gustavo on this basis alone.

I think we're looking at a Gustavo/Invisibility/Mumble team, with Gustavo most likely to flip scum.

Like, I've got doubts about my scum reads - enough doubt that I'd never base a read on a major wagon on a weak association with a scum read. And someone as "experienced" as Gustavo should know better. If I'm too biased about this, it'd be nice to have my townreads weigh in.

VOTE: Invisibility

We can worry about whether BBT is scum tomorrow. I'm curious to see what happens with his role tonight.

VOTE: Havo

Havo's probably scum based on his response to BBT's claim as well as his overall lack of engagement with the game.

I tried to include context quotes if she explained in the post before or after

Looks like vote 1 she did the same as this game - joining RVS with a more serious-looking vote.

From there,
Yes reasons
No reasons
No reasons
Yes reasons
Yes reasons
No reasons
Yes reasons

Not seeing your point, honestly

[Irrelephant11]

I’m not voting anyone else at this point

Talk about not being a team player. Nauci's made a case on me. I've made a case on Keyser. Lots of people have given reasons to think the worst is likely scum. Even if shoshin's scum, there's still two more to find and tons to talk about. I'm not asking you to quit playing, I'm just not seeing your point on Shoshin's votes

[Irrelephant11]

I'm stuck, I was townreading stungun but I'm scumreading gustavo

Leaning scum

[Irrelephant11]

hmmm browsing gustavo's meta gets me back toward a townread, though

I just think he's wrong

[Irrelephant11]

stungun never came across as informed, and came across pretty transparent

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah it was specifically Scientific Mafia where he has the same bluster and willingness to express anger as town, which were parts of my scumread of him here

[Irrelephant11]

stungun never came across as informed, and came across pretty transparent

This describes me btw

disagree. you "have no interest in voting nauci." (975)

This shows that you aren't just looking at the biggest wagon for info, you also have some sort of feeling about Nauci that

does

come across as informed

transparent I guess though

[Irrelephant11]

Also why are you so explicitly uninterested in voting the worst?

[Irrelephant11]

A lot of shoshin's reason-less votes have been toward the end of creating wagons imo
That's what's pro-town about her play and her voting

Have you read my 879?
Look at math (who hasn't delivered on his Wednesday reads he promised), keyser (who I scumcased in 897), and gamma emerald if you want to see scummy voting (or lack therof)

[Irrelephant11]

Sorry I worded that weird. I was trying to use the expression "to that end, ..."

Seems like Shoshin's goal in her reason-less vote was to make wagons. That's what I get from these, anyway

VOTE: momrangal

That's a decent vote, but you should join me on Stun!

I'm not quite ready to say why you should vote Stun but you should. Irrelephant has the idea.

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I would love your thoughts on Keyser Soze, skitter30, mathdino, gamma emerald

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I would love your thoughts on Keyser Soze, skitter30, mathdino, gamma emerald

@Not_Mafia add Nauci to this list, pick at least one, and give me a thought please thanks

[Irrelephant11]

blows my mind that keyser and bernie both have more posts than me (I'm #5 in posts) and I have so little hold on their reads.

off the top of my head, Bernie thinks tw is scum
Keyser thought skitter was scum but isn't sure of that anymore. He also wasn't sure about invisibility

???

gonna go re-read Bernie

[Irrelephant11]

I forgot Bernie voted math at one point for srs reasons

Bernie, thoughts on math now?
Also, talk to me about 388. What was your goal there, and why did you drop it when everyone ignored it?
640 you said "You are right in that I'm wondering if I might've given someone a pass too early here" - do you still feel this way?
What's your read on Nauci? You've had multiple clarifying questions on her but I don't see any direct thoughts from you since.
Why are you voting Gamma?

Any firm reads at this point?

pedit: I am engaging, but thanks for the help

[Irrelephant11]

Honestly it feels like half the playerlist is, which is annoying.

[Irrelephant11]

@Irrelephant:

I think that as any alignment, you should veer off from these syntactical lines of thinking. Phrasing/wording/slang/idioms/vocabulary is usually mostly reflective of someone's culture/education/personality. If you know that "this works well" means "corroborates the theory," you should analyze the thought behind it OR explain in detail why phrasing X would mean thought process Y vs "I personally would have used Y instead of X here." It would either improve your scum hunting as town, or reduce your empty shading opportunities as scum.

The "I want to watch them fight" comment seems like the same sentiment as your "hopefully it at least makes other players' ability to read us easier" from 707. I've always thought 1v1s were good for sorting those involved, as a 3rd party observer or participant.

The "this is an attempt to scum read me later" comments ping me BADLY. Those aren't reactions I ever would have had to those comments (if they were about me instead) unless I was scum with a "oh god they're onto me" kick. One post literally says he didn't even think about scumrelephant as a possibility and it was a blind spot, so I can only see fear/misdirection motivating "this reads as excitement," and I really don't draw a line from "you just know Nauci well" to "attempt to scumread [irrelephant] if nauci flips town"?

I think that I have done my best to be extremely pro-town thus far, but "doesn't suck up to Irrelephant" shouldn't be a point in my favor. If I were scum I'd be as afraid of townrelephant as townmathdino, and try to hide because after we pocketed flicker/teacher you couldn't possibly trust anyone buttering you up.

never responded to this

-Word choice is how I caught scum quickly and accurately in the game I replaced into with shosh. In this case, "this works well" seems like he's slipping how convenient it is to have a good excuse to scumread someone, and in hindsight the way he backs off skitter30 after waiting a while for the wagon to pick up makes this look even worse. Keyser what inspired you to back off skitter?

-the reason these are different is that our 1v1 happened naturally, whereas my problem with keyser was that it seemed he wanted to turn two other players against each other for his own benefit

-that's a fair reading re:blind spot. All I know is my own alignment, so it's easy for me to question when people challenge that. I'm learning it's a weakness of mine (unless you and keyser are both scum in which case I should trust myself MORE on this lol)

-I'm flattered that you compare me to towndino (as it seems many players respect him greatly, myself included), but all I was saying is that it's actually easier to see town paranoia motivation for your push on me than it is to see scum motivation. But it sounds like you are saying your approach to me is actually what you'd be doing regardless of alignment, which, okay? I'll keep that in mind, I guess.

[Irrelephant11]

are you talking to me?

[Irrelephant11]

Well Shoshin and Gustavo aren't town together

I wouldn't mind lynching Gustavo today, honestly, but I doubt it's our best play, given the numbers of lurky slots

[Irrelephant11]

oops I meant "scum together"

he keeps getting her gender wrong

[Irrelephant11]

"the responses about Keyser still have me too wary to move to anything close to a town read." what does this mean Nauci?

@Not_Mafia I asked you for some specific reads recently - find it in my ISO?

I'm somewhat townreading Gamma at this stage fwiw

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t really wish dragging the shoshin conversation on any longer. Either you side with me or side with her. Telling me I’m wrong isn’t going to change my mind because clearly I don’t agree with that. If you want to say it isn’t AI, that’s great you don’t think so but from what I’ve seen of her play, all of her play, it’s AI for me. You are entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. Nobody is really pointing to anything protown from her which also supports my read. Now don’t go run off and do that either because I’ve made my mind up.

If you want this game to turn into a shit show, I assure you that it will turn into one if you continue trying to change my mind. My mind isn’t open to be changed on this topic. Not day 1 anyway.

Not like this AtE to scumread either you or Shoshin, with the implication that it should be Shoshin

[Irrelephant11]

Right I know I'm asking what "responses about Keyser"? My scumcase of him?

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t really wish dragging the shoshin conversation on any longer. Either you side with me or side with her. Telling me I’m wrong isn’t going to change my mind because clearly I don’t agree with that. If you want to say it isn’t AI, that’s great you don’t think so but from what I’ve seen of her play, all of her play, it’s AI for me. You are entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. Nobody is really pointing to anything protown from her which also supports my read. Now don’t go run off and do that either because I’ve made my mind up.

If you want this game to turn into a shit show, I assure you that it will turn into one if you continue trying to change my mind. My mind isn’t open to be changed on this topic. Not day 1 anyway.

I don't

like this AtE to scumread either you or Shoshin, with the implication that it should be Shoshin

EBWOP

[Irrelephant11]

525, 571, 717, 884, and the second-to-last sentence in 1128 are my townread on Gamma

It’s not as strong as I thought it was now that I lay it out, hmm

Sorry mobile posting makes linking inconvenient
If it’s helpful I’ll quote myself and link things in the morning

[Irrelephant11]

Townreading Errant, Shoshin, Momrangal
Townleaning Nauci, Skitter, Gustavo
Null-reading Mathdino, Bernie Sanders, Gamma Emerald
Scumleaning the worst, Keyser Soze, Not_Mafia

I’m don’t hard object to the idea of a Gamma lynch but I’m not sure enough for L-1
I’d love if math and tw would come back to the thread

[Irrelephant11]

Like you’re bored and looking for something to read? Just... start at the beginning? There’s AI stuff as early as page 2

[Irrelephant11]

hi duck

@shoshin partially for the meme, partially because I thought nsg's vote was a town vote and errant didn't ruin that yet

also "this is the towniest post in the game" isn't how scum would enter I don't think? Let alone twice?

How are you reading him?

[Irrelephant11]

I always dive in this soon, and often catch scum in the first couple pages and everything. No reason to delay hunting.

Ever done the same as scum? I.e scum reading hard a fellow scum team mate?

Adding this to things I don't like from Keyser.
Also, this is on page 2, so @Nauci...

@replacements: this game has had a lot of meaty posting starting as early as page 5 and I honestly recommend skimming everything. There are wall posts from people like irrelephant, skitter, myself, etc. where we respond to lots of little details which can be skipped, but read over any of the read list posts and votes that have happened thus far.

why recommend page 5 when this game was out of RVS in page 1?

[Irrelephant11]

Adding this to things I don't like from Keyser.

What was wrong with that post?

Where are the other things you don’t like?

My predecessor felt strong he was town. Idk why yet but I want to see why you don’t agree

1. Shoshin was like "I like to trip up scum asap in every game" and Keyser was like "Okay but if that works this time couldn't you still be scum though" (obviously this is just one interpretation of his words but it's the one I'm reading rn)
2.

A lot of shoshin's reason-less votes have been toward the end of creating wagons imo
That's what's pro-town about her play and her voting

Have you read my 879?
Look at math (who hasn't delivered on his Wednesday reads he promised),

keyser (who I scumcased in 897)

, and gamma emerald if you want to see scummy voting (or lack therof)

@gamma did you sort Nauci yet

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant, I didn't think that post was that townie, it felt like the sort of thing scum who knows you're town would read it. I didn't like EP's post, felt scummy to me.

why?

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin is still a woman, btw

It's just a weird question coming from Keyser. He doesn't ask "Do you replicate this way of getting out of RVS as scum?" he specifically asks "Do you replicate this strategy as scum and actually lynch your own partners?"

I can't think of myself ever asking that as town at that point

Whereas scum afraid of being caught having "taken the bait" (something he gets weirdly focused on for long after everyone else has stopped talking about it) might lampshade the idea that if Shoshin had successfully caught scum that could somehow be scum-indicative for her, which doesn't make sense?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm completely open to you explaining yourself? And confused why you won't

[Irrelephant11]

But your refusal to answer for your own actions doesn’t make it easier for me to townread you
Also
-scum don’t have much incentive to convince me you’re town
-town doesn’t know you’re town

So just tell me your thoughts behind things? Don’t just “accept the scumread” (unless you’re scum)

[Irrelephant11]

Gustavo have you glanced at Shoshin's town game in "Newbie 1869 | Stuff I found online II"?

[Irrelephant11]

Well I'm having trouble knowing if you still scumread Nauci for her naked vote but regardless it's Shoshin's most recent town meta and it's relevant to a lot of things you are thinking/saying

[Irrelephant11]

*scumread shoshin lol when you've been ISOing one player and try to talk about another

[Irrelephant11]

Okay

Your scumread of math is new, tell me more there

[Irrelephant11]

I actually have a feeling

VOTE: bernie sanders

[Irrelephant11]

I do but I think he might be bussing
or if he's town, I think he might be right
either way works

[Irrelephant11]

I've been staring at votecounts for like an hour+ trying to draw conclusions that don't require flips. Obviously there's not a lot to find but I can rule some associations out that I hadn't thought to otherwise

Bernie is not scum with (and is therefore less likely to be aligned with) math, shoshin, momrangal, not_mafia, skitter, or nauci, all but one of whom I'm townreading, and who can townread not_maf at this point? (sidenote: it's hilarious to me that not_maf is the perfect replacement to carry the torch of invisibility's playstyle)

His likely partners if he flips scum are keyser, gustavo, the worst, gamma, and errantparabola which is actually a pretty good lynchpool

Meanwhile Keyser's most likely partners are Nauci, skitter, not_mafia, errantparabola, and bernie

I might be doing this wrong but I've spent a lot of time trying to pull useful information out of the votecounts and keyser voting bernie was fascinating to me after doing that and I want to wagon bernie now

pedit: I will say more about mom later I gotta go

[Irrelephant11]

I should vote who I have reason to vote for. You really have a lot of advice for me, “mate”

If you think my thought progression is
1. Keyser is scum
2. Bernie is a plausible Keyser buddy
3. Vote Bernie

You’re not reading me right

[Irrelephant11]

momrangel actually came back with a bang.

Did I now?

Scum Mom could just take the compliment/let someone else question this for her. Meh this is a small point

I am rethinking my read on Bernie, and I think he's going after low hanging fruit duck.

Bernie made a huge ass case on duck, and his tone and I agree with the lack of direction but I entirely disagree with duck being given enough space. I have that slot as null, but I honestly don't find his pred scummy outside the supposed semi-trustish whatever tell you want to call it regarding him replacing out. Even if whatsherface and skits (I think it was) told each other that they were excited to play the same alignment, I don't think replacing out should ever be alignment indicative and no one really has given duck a chance to do more than get his feet wet.

He even said that the wagon would have zero effect because he lacks time and wouldn't have it later in the week but absolutely no one has payed attention to that little tidbit.

Further more, this case on duck came when after duck said he wouldn't have any time to defend himself, and after duck is at a vulnerable L-2 (1?) position making it completely viable that duck gets lynched before he even had more time to get himself busy.

He also pushes duck but still takes a wholly neural stance on the matter so that, when popular scum read duck flips town, he can take the blame off himself considerably easier than most others gunning for his lych

Defending the worst comes across as towny to me here given how widely scumread tw was at the time - unless they’re scum together, in which case this seems like pretty bad play?

Why?

Bernie? 133, 135, 141, 142, 173, and 174 are all pretty townie. As i said before, I especially liked the way that he joined me on Stun but then switched onto Invis becuase he couldn't keep up the farce of voting someone he didn't actually find scummy. The entirety of that sequence of posts felt very town. And following those early posts, there's been a very natural thought process and a lot of progression in his reads, as seen in 187, 266, 323, 375, 388.

I can see where you're coming from with this, but as far as his early interaction with you regarding stun and invis, I think you may be giving him to much credit as far as progression goes.

I do agree that 388 is a solid post. But I feel like a large majority of them are kinda just sitting in the middle and when he does take a stance he does this weird "eh what do I know thing" like in post 375 . He also did it in 323 when pushing Dino, making it feel like he's subliminally excusing himself from taking responsibility from anything that happened. Making it easier to brush it off as oversight or some othet thing. Something I see scum do constantly, something I'm always noting (like I did in implos large game as well in a few games in my old account).

It's subtle tell that people have thought me crazy to point out but has outstanding accuracy.

This made sense to me at the time and affected my read of Bernie

[Irrelephant11]

Her low activity seems tied to real life, not alignment (or at least she’s said so once or twice)
And her associatives leave me with no real scumteams that make sense to me? So I’d really have to be misreading someone else for her to be scum I think
ISO does leave much to be desired though so I get the scumread

[Irrelephant11]

Sorry, I misunderstood the labels on your readslist and what you meant by “bussing”. Must be a language thing.

I thought you vote your ‘scum’ reads.

No I think you’re literally reading the meaning of my words correctly, you’re just misunderstanding the intention of my vote
Also the longer post about associatives does imply that I scumread Bernie a little more than I did before

For some reason this post of yours feels towny, hmmm

[Irrelephant11]

I would like at least a couple more Mathdino/the worst thoughts and words before we lynch anyone
Also where is Bernie to respond to votes
Also Gamma if you’re town now’s your chance to help, share as many thoughts as you can on as many people as you can before getting lynched please and thanns

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant, I didn't think that post was that townie, it felt like the sort of thing scum who knows you're town would read it. I didn't like EP's post, felt scummy to me.

why?

[Irrelephant11]

That’s actually v true

I’m guessing at least two if not all three scum are in {Gamma, Bernie, people voting for Gamma or Bernie}

Otherwise they could easily be pushing one lynch or the other
Kind of like Gustavo seems to be doing?
Really can’t read Gustavo

[Irrelephant11]

K I was mostly voting Bernie to have a chance to sort him before voting a scumread but if he’s V/LA that’s pointless

UNVOTE: Bernie Sanders

Gonna look at a couple things before placing a real vote

[Irrelephant11]

Duck, I've stated my thoughts on him multiple times, and I am not really seeing the lack of spirit that everyone else seems to see. I don't think he's played like he did when he was scum though this fade is a little weird, but I think it's entirely plausible that this game may have slipped his mind. I also see him as town based off something that I don't really want to talk about

Can you give a strength of this mysterious townread
Like how much should I sheep you

[Irrelephant11]

I have a very similar scumtell (every post I make has a screaming subtext of "GET ME OUT OF HEEREE")

just for good measure, do you have offsite scumgames you're able to link at all?

This is kinda exactly how you’re coming across (“get me out of heeree”)

[Irrelephant11]

K I’m fine with a Gamma lynch. He’s gotten worse under pressure and my reason for ever having a townread will either be proven or disproven before the lynch goes through. He definitely hasn’t been super helpful, and in his last dozen/two dozen posts he fees less like town trying to help make his own lynch worthwhile and more like scum trying to hide associatives

Intent to hammer in like 24 hours if the worst does L-1 at some point

I think Not_Mafia, the worst, Skitter, and Nauci deserve closer looks and would consider voting one of them but I don’t have enough of a clear read on any of them to change this up

Pedit: i mean fair

[Irrelephant11]

24 hours is flexible based on if any of math, notmaf, or errant want time to contribute more
Or if multiple people think that’s too soon

[Irrelephant11]

Okay you have to admit that it's reasonable for me to question if your townread on her is worth its salt if the post was defending you, regardless of the rest of the context, right?

Irrelephant11/TW/whomever else was planning to hammer: can we wait to see if Math/NM respond to prods in time? Which is a minimum of 12 hours from now, I think

First question pings me a ton

Yeah definitely, as long as we leave a little time for potential claiming/wagon switching

Also my towntell on Gamma has not been affirmed or refuted by anything since. Still pretty sure it’ll happen or not happen soon tho

[Irrelephant11]

Idk about consistency but in the game I replaced into, Not_Mafia was already dead as cop. He was very helpful actually, but it was hard to read him before he died (once dead, though, his cop clear was super obvious in retrospect). His votes were also good. I think Shoshin is probably right that lynching Gamma has a good chance of sorting Not_Mafia. Policy lynching certainly seems like the wrong decision, anyway.

All that said, I’m not townreading the slot at this point

[Irrelephant11]

Bahahaha what

Who is Ranmaru

I guess I’m flattered? Hahahahaha

[Irrelephant11]

Also wow good memory Nauci, the one correction being *recently married

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
My fav wagon in the running, and we need a lynch

That’s L-1

[Irrelephant11]

Gamma, we're not lynching Shoshin today. She might look scummy on re-read depending on your flip and the night flip (anyone might, honestly - I've played enough to know that no read should stay permanent when flips surprise you), but your vote is moot. How about some clear reads on all players? It might not stop your lynch, but if you're town it would help your win condition all the same.

If you're scum keep doing what you're doing

[Irrelephant11]

I mean my reason is Shoshin is pretty widely townread. That will be true until and unless flips change perspectives. I don't expect them to in the case of Shoshin because my townread there is pretty strong, but if she spearheads multiple town lynches obviously I will reconsider

You are literally now saying the thing you don't like from Shoshin - "explain my reads? What do you mean explain my reads I've said them in various places". Except also your recent reads have been "wait you're voting ME? I vote YOU" which, you know, isn't really reads.

Feeling real good about my vote as time goes on

pedit: this is @Gamma if it's not clear

[Irrelephant11]

To clarify I don't disagree that you've shared some reads, Gamma, but a v pro-town thing you can do before getting lynched is to share a

clear

"here's how I'm reading everyone, use this info in case of my death" and your refusal to do so when asked is scummy.

Clear is underlined because "it's your fault that none of you can parse my reads" isn't helpful

[Irrelephant11]

Thanks Gamma

[Irrelephant11]

Re: "this pings me the wrong way"

You know as I was writing it I was like "I bet Skitter or Nauci will be bothered by this"
Not sure what that says about your alignment or mine, but. *shrug*

Thanks for wedding congratulations

Maybe you've said it but man this game is getting long - skitter, who would be your optimal lynch(es)?

[Irrelephant11]

idk, i think it's cuz it kinda feels like you might be setting yourself up for a reads-change on shoshin on a gamma greenflip. almost like you wouldn't be surprised by a greenflip, if that makes sense? idk how to explain that better

Yeah, that does make sense, actually. And actually I did do this as scum. But I don't think I'd scumread Shoshin if Gamma turns out to be town, it would take more surprises than that. In this case I was mostly referencing how I was consistently townread as scum in my first game despite the mental hoops people had to jump through to keep me at the top of their townreads. I won't do the same if evidence tells me to re-evaluate, is all I'm saying.

[Irrelephant11]

Did what?

[Irrelephant11]

pretty sure those are the asterisks from prods in the first post

townreading Bernie atm

[Irrelephant11]

talk to me more about why you think mom is scummy, I feel like she's been nearly scumsensus for awhile but I never understood the case after "she had a bad entrance"

[Irrelephant11]

Do you have time now to elaborate on your reads?

[Irrelephant11]

...because I assumed "can't really explain rn" meant "I will remember to get to this later when I have time"?

[Irrelephant11]

agreed.

[Irrelephant11]

Lol

Math, who’s scum?

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant and I did a No Kill night 1 in Newbie 1863 and it tricked the town into thinking that there was a doctor or that the jailer successfully targeted scum night 1 (...which led to lynching the IC) so I have every paranoid thought about the night no kill regardless of the night extension shenanigans.

Lol

[Irrelephant11]

Interesting. Probably still Keyser? I was holding off on vca and ISOs until there was another flip (/I also could have died and it would have been for naught) so lemme go glance at the two of them

Why not both?
Why not neither?

Also, results to come later gotta go for a bit

[Irrelephant11]

My answer is still Keyser but we’ll see. It mostly comes from townleaning Skitter still and switching between scum/null-reading Keyser

[Irrelephant11]

Errant do you have any strong reads at this point?

If not, please gather and offer reads on all players on Gamma’s lynch as you have time.

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: momrangal[/] because wowwww Mom talking about Gamma is terrible and gross in retrospect

Examples to come

Pedit: same

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant11
Shoshin
stungun0404
Keyser Soze

Mathdino
Bernie

Nauci
the worst
northsidegal*
Invisibility

Gamma Emerald
skitter

That's where I stand. Moved invis with meta considered

Stun-town
Keys???town
Mathprobtown but I'm probably gonna flip back and forth there
Gamma??? Worth looking into
Elephant???town
Nanci???
Sho???
Skit???
DUCCKKKKYYYYYY!!!!if scum, never playing with Gemini again
NSG??
Bernie???town

Mentally I'm on page 9, but I don't know invisibilitys meta. I've never played and I pulled something I thought was scummy and rolled with it. I know you touched on it once but like, even if it is his meta whats stopping him from being scum here? If it's his meta it should be NAI and you shouldn't be town reading him off that.

Mom, what's your current read on Gamma?

I'm hung up on it.

Gamma is not town, and makes sense as scum but at the same time something doesn't feel right.

Wagon comp could be better and I may be hung up on the fact that Bernie is on there. It doesn't seem like much of a bus placement but in my mind, both Bernie and gamma have decent chance of flipping scum but I don't see much associations between them.

That aside, I feel like gamma has been getting a little bit more engaged and I don't want to discourage that especially when I think I see some probing I don't remember coming from scum gamma

this post is gross and fence-sitty. 'gamma is not town, and makes sense as scum but at the same time something doesn't feel right' - like what does this even mean?

Guess it means I'm scum getting cold feet from a Gamma!bus

Realtalk tho, you're pulling this out of context

What do you think of {mathdino, tw, nm}, especially compared to other times you've seen them? In addition, are there any people you'd like me to reconsider my read on?

Duck.

Also, NM posted like, once? I feel like I remember him posting alot more as town and I expected him to make a bigger entrance here now that you've brought him up.

I actually townread math which IDK how to really take considering I usually scumread him regardless of his alignment. Objectively speaking, though and in a vacuum everything he's done is straight null alignment wise. Nothing he's done is outside his range of play as scum but I have a gut feeling that he isn't here, and it may be his progression.

Duck, I've stated my thoughts on him multiple times, and I am not really seeing the lack of spirit that everyone else seems to see. I don't think he's played like he did when he was scum though this fade is a little weird, but I think it's entirely plausible that this game may have slipped his mind. I also see him as town based off something that I don't really want to talk about

Sorry about the order of quote I’m on mobile

VOTE: momrangal

[Irrelephant11]

I’m estimating two scum on wagon and one off

Those of you off the wagon, since Gamma is town, which of the other four off the wagon seem most likely to be scum?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: mom

ftr i consider irrelephant's vote suspect given that he was hard townreading her yesterday for little reason and i literally called out all of her bad interactions with the gamma wagon yesterday repeatedly

p-edit: yes, all of those

Sorry, what part are we scumreading here? The way I'm voting your scumread? Or the way my read on Mom changed to match new information? (Or some third option, don't let me box you in)

Irrelephant, after all we learned from teh newbie game, why do you still think that wagon analysis has credence? What are you basing it on? Hunch? Statistics? Why is on/off wagon such an important measure to you? Does the VT flip factor into it? How?

What does "gross" mean WRT mom's posts on Gamma? If you think Mom is scum, does that affect your read of Bernie?

What about Keyser's end of day behavior makes you FOS him?

Your posts fell back into complacent/shallow as soon as we backed off the pressure on you and I don't like that one bit

because Thor's wagon analysis was correct in that game, and it's extremely hard to lynch town without scum's help. It's also just an estimation based on how the lynch and the counterwagons felt at the time

"gross" has a pretty obvious connotation here
If you're asking me to explain the read, it's how mom had Gamma in her scumpile right up until he became a viable lynch, at which point she said the weird thing that skitter challenged and stayed off the lynch. Out of the people off the wagon, she certainly had the worst progression. I don't know yet if she's the lynch I want today, but it's a start

Though... isn't Mom actually V/LA? Maybe I should come back to her.

Nothing specific is coming to mind about Keyser's EOD that was AI, why do you ask?

Disagree, I've been on mobile a lot lately but my play is not shallow, I'm pushing players to give us all more to sort from, and making sure things get noticed that need to. I'm town. Moving on.

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant, after all we learned from teh newbie game, why do you still think that wagon analysis has credence? What are you basing it on? Hunch? Statistics? Why is on/off wagon such an important measure to you? Does the VT flip factor into it? How?

Also I'm basing VCA thoughts on this

But wait, if you think VCA is so useless, what is this for??? Sounds like you're admitting it's just LAMIST

Speaking of which, Keyser's vote wasn't reflected in the final vote counter.

I just finished updating mine. I messed up a thing and the first 3 votes weren't showing up but it's fixed now.

UNOFFICIAL Votecount Record DAY 1

Spoiler: final vote count day 1

Gamma Emerald (7) -

Nauci #102

,

Mathdino

#734[/size],

Bernie Sanders #841

,

Shoshin

#1162[/size],

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #1163

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #1189

,

stungun0404/Gustavo

#1199[/size],

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1300

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#1472[/size],

Irrelephant11

#1484[/size],

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

#1485[/size],

Bernie Sanders

#1620[/size]

Momrangal (3) -

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #5

,

northsidegal/Errantparabola #97

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #315

,

skitter30 #427

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #428

,

skitter30

#1070[/size],

Nauci #1079

,

Bernie Sanders #1363

,

Nauci

#1468[/size],

Keyser Soze

#1573[/size]

Invisibility/Not_Mafia -

Momrangal #51

,

Bernie Sanders #142

,

Nauci #1411

,

Gamma Emerald #1413

Bernie Sanders (1) -

Mathdino #7

,

Nauci #8

,

Keyser Soze #1252

,

Irrelephant11 #1254

,

Momrangal

#1270[/size]

Keyser Soze -

GeminiTwin12/the worst #227

,

Irrelephant11 #421

Nauci -

Mathdino #189

,

Shoshin #191

,

Irrelephant11 #473

,

Momrangal #799

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #801

northsidegal/Errantparabola -

stungun0404/Gustavo #170

GeminiTwin12/the worst -

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #169

,

skitter30 #527

,

Bernie Sanders #633

,

Nauci #675

,

Gamma Emerald #1294

stungun0404/Gustavo -

Shoshin #96

,

Irrelephant11 #99

,

Bernie Sanders #133

,

Shoshin #965

,

Gamma Emerald #1140

skitter30 -

Irrelephant11 #85

,

Keyser Soze #219

,

Irrelephant11 #222

,

Irrelephant11 #423

,

Momrangal #502

Shoshin (1) -

skitter30 #15

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #970

,

Gamma Emerald

#1503[/size]

Mathdino -

stungun0404/Gustavo #12

,

Shoshin #13

,

Bernie Sanders #323

Irrelephant11 -

Nauci #9

,

Nauci #704

,

skitter30 #741

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #788

UNVOTE (1) -

stungun0404/Gustavo #136

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #569

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #828

,

Keyser Soze #851

,

Irrelephant11 #900

,

Shoshin #999

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #1191

,

northsidegal/Errantparabola

#1193[/size],

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1303

,

Irrelephant11 #1315

,

Nauci #1385

,

Gamma Emerald #1390

,

Nauci #1445

VOTE RECORD BY PLAYER DAY 1

Spoiler: final votes by player day 1

Gamma Emerald

-

stungun0404/Gustavo #1140

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1294

,

UNVOTE #1390

,

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #1413

,

Shoshin

#1503

Momrangal

-

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #51

,

skitter30 #502

,

Nauci #799

,

Bernie Sanders

#1270

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

-

Momrangal #5

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #169

,

Gamma Emerald #1163

,

Gamma Emerald

#1485

Bernie Sanders

-

stungun0404/Gustavo #133

,

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #142

,

Mathdino #323

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #633

,

Gamma Emerald #841

,

Momrangal #1363

,

Gamma Emerald

#1620

Keyser Soze

-

skitter30 #219

,

UNVOTE #851

,

Bernie Sanders #1252

,

Momrangal

#1573

Nauci

-

Bernie Sanders #8

,

Irrelephant11 #9

,

Gamma Emerald #102

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #675

,

Irrelephant11 #704

,

Momrangal #1079

,

UNVOTE #1385

,

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #1411

,

UNVOTE #1445

,

Momrangal

#1468

northsidegal/Errantparabola

-

Momrangal #97

,

UNVOTE

#1193

GeminiTwin12/the worst

-

Keyser Soze #227

,

Momrangal #315

,

Nauci #801

,

Gamma Emerald #1300

,

UNVOTE #1303

,

Gamma Emerald

#1472

stungun0404/Gustavo

-

Mathdino #12

,

UNVOTE #136

,

northsidegal/Errantparabola #170

,

Momrangal #428

,

UNVOTE #569

,

Irrelephant11 #788

,

UNVOTE #828

,

Shoshin #970

,

Gamma Emerald #1189

,

UNVOTE #1191

,

Gamma Emerald

#1199

skitter30

-

Shoshin #15

,

Momrangal #427

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #527

,

Irrelephant11 #741

,

Momrangal

#1070

Shoshin

-

Mathdino #13

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #96

,

Nauci #191

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #965

,

UNVOTE #999

,

Gamma Emerald

#1162

Mathdino

-

Bernie Sanders #7

,

Nauci #189

,

Gamma Emerald

#734

Irrelephant11

-

skitter30 #85

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #99

,

skitter30 #222

,

Keyser Soze #421

,

skitter30 #423

,

Nauci #473

,

UNVOTE #900

,

Bernie Sanders #1254

,

UNVOTE #1315

,

Gamma Emerald

#1484

[Irrelephant11]

Weirdly enough, I read that progression as more town motivated because I couldn't see why he would wait until the last last last minute to pull out an incriminating meta dive, especially when Keyser had just made the momrangal wagon also viable. Unless mom-bernie actually is s/s which would seem weird too.

I agree with this read of Bernie EOD1, though I'm curious why you (Nauci) think mom/bernie s/s would be weird

[Irrelephant11]

that's a lot of pings. Who do you townread rn?

[Irrelephant11]

No, I helped lynch JB, and you helped lynch Thor, and both our slots lynched Flicker.

It's not "astrology", because I'm including:
1. how nearly impossible it is for 7/10 town to vote one of the other two town without a single scum vote
2. Scum incentive to vote town
3. That weird lull in voting and talking while the wagon was on Gamma that made me think he was scum but instead it now seems more likely that scum was waiting for us to make that mistake
4. There are 5 non-Gamma players off-wagon and 7 on wagon, meaning it's already +rand that there are more scum on wagon than off
5. Scum incentive to not all vote in the same place.

I'm obviously not going to vote someone I townread because of VCA, especially because most of these players seems smart enough to mess with VCA at least a little as scum. But vca is a helpful tool and it is honestly just very likely that I'm write about the 2/1 split, with a possible exception in the case of lurky scum

[Irrelephant11]

EBWOP: "one of the other

three

town"

[Irrelephant11]

Lol it would be nicer if you would just know I’m town and believe the things I say

But I guess I could write out my thought process in full more often, when that’s helpful

[Irrelephant11]

For me it would be

Sometimes thought processes seem self-evident to me, so I don't share them. More words for the sake of more words isn't helpful. I hated writing out every step in math class when I was sure the teacher knew what I meant. But yes, I'm probably underestimating how often my thought processes are helpful, so I'll include those more often.

Can you explain what you meant by refusing to post justifications (about gamma potential partners) day 1? Is it that justify and explain mean different things to you?

Yes and yes.

Okay, follow up: what does justification mean to you?

How does this question help you sort Shoshin?


Also @anyone with experience: is there

precedent

president for there to be > or < than 3 scum in a 13 player mini theme? Like does that happen often/happen in other brassherald games?

[Irrelephant11]

Actually given that she's V/LA till the 9th (wow) I'd say it means she's the designated vote-for-people-not-paying-enough-attention

I'll come back to her later

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Irrelephant11]

So my head says scum are Not_Mafia, Mom, and the worst, but my heart says it's Gustavo, Nauci, and mathdino. These are not team speculations idk about associatives atm these are just who I think is scummy depending on what I listen to

Probably shouldn't listen to my gut though

Spoiler:

with that I'm low activity for the weekend ttyl

[Irrelephant11]

It still exists, he’s prolly fourth on both those lists. But I also think generally it’s more likely that people off the Gamma wagon are town than those on the wagon, and Mom and Nauci’s unwillingness to vote Gamma both included scummy moments that Keyser didn’t have EOD. He’s much closer to null for that reason, and also because all my townreads townread him

[Irrelephant11]

The reason my heart scumreads Gustavo is that his aggressive play seems more intended to scare us away from scumreading him than to actually sort other players or help town see his POV. The above seems like a good example.

But then my brain joins everyone else in thinking Stungun was too towny...

[Irrelephant11]

I just explained why aggressive play can be anti-town. It discourages others from properly sorting you through an implicit emotional appeal (something like “don’t scumread me or I will get angry with you”). Additionally, it makes it harder to see things from your point of view, because your emotion-filled cases come across as just that - emotional, rather than logical. An example is your case on shoshin: multiple playera (more than three, iirc, which means at minimum one town) said your case on Shoshin was based on inaccuracies, but rather than dealing on a logical level with those assertions, you responded emotionally (“don’t talk to me about this shit anymore if you refuse to see things my way” is a paraphrase from memory)

Like I almost didn’t write that last sentence because I thought it might upset you again, but I’m trying to sort you and share my thought processe, and your aggression is not helping me do that. Nor, from what I can tell, is it helping others benefit from your posts/reads.

[Irrelephant11]

Obviously aggressive play can be pro-town, but in this case I don’t think it is

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I can’t speak for Nauci but my brain agrees you’re probablyyyy not scum? The fact that you have no townreads is concerning though.

[Irrelephant11]

Scumreading half the game isn’t helpful or accurate. 1701 is aggressive, as was a lot of what you had to say regarding shoshin yesterday. I’m not misrepping you.

That statement to Nauci was meant as a joke, duh “I’m town” doesn’t help

[Irrelephant11]

I feel like I’m pretty transparent? Ask me any question, if you’re genuinely unsure how to sort me

[Irrelephant11]

Scumreading half the game isn’t helpful or accurate. 1701 is aggressive, as was a lot of what you had to say regarding shoshin yesterday. I’m not misrepping you.

That statement to Nauci was meant as a joke, duh “I’m town” doesn’t help

I’m not scum reading half the game though. I have 2 solid scum reads. The rest I’m trying to sort

I mean according to your 1678 you scumread Keyser, Bernie, Skitter, me
You said last page you still scumread shoshin
And you haven’t offered any townreads without immediately undercutting them

I’m not getting a very strong “let’s find scum” vibe from you, just aggro and tunneling. Which like, can come from town, but if you can get away with it as scum it sure is convenient, huh

It’s just astounding to me you have no townreads to offer in a game that’s 3/4 town and you are supposedly on a team that is trying to sort & separate town and scum.

Pedit: yeah a lot of my votes I wait to explain them so that pressure votes seem real and real votes seem real. I’ve sheeped a ton of votes to turn one vote into two or two votes into three so the recipient of those votes is under pressure and does something AI. But you’re not asking questions of me so I don’t know that i believe you’re any to know my motivations or thoughts, just that you want me to stop asking you about yours.

My vote on Not_Mafia is real though I think he should have voted better or more AI than he did, he knows the game well and plays to his wincon, I think he wanted Gamma dead

[Irrelephant11]

Oh my bad I thoughts words meant things

Pedit: You’re not required to do anything but if your wincon includes winning with most of the rest of us I think you’d share anything useful that you’ve got. A wise MS player once told me to be more transparent

[Irrelephant11]

Alright fair enough

If I’ve made potentialscum!Gustavo aware that he can’t skste by on aggression I’m satisfied for now

Pedit: don’t know what to say to that but gotta go

[Irrelephant11]

This activity level is yikes

Errant, Bernie, Shoshin, and Skitter are defo town, so I’d loveeee to hear from the other half of the player list

[Irrelephant11]

N2?

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah shoshin I’d like to know the reasoning for that vote too, I’m not seeing Skitter scum rn

[Irrelephant11]

Why is Skitter definitely town, Irrelephant?

She’s not? Just more likely town than scum imo

Didn’t vote Gamma, has believable thought processes

Oh yeah and she shaded me when I joined her on Mom for reasons that I don’t think scum would think of. On mobile rn but that was less than five pages back iirc. She thought my move was scummy but didn’t try to turn momentum against me, just showed wariness like concerned town trying to discern the quality of their own vote would.

[Irrelephant11]

Ohhh lol yeah “defo” is short for definitely it’s true. But I use it in a slang-y way because i can’t actually be 100% on any of them. I know that scum probably split their votes, but i think Mom > Nauci > Keyser are the most likely candidates for off-Gamma-wagon scum. That means errant and Skitter are v likely town. I think Not_Mafia > the worst >

Mathdino

BlackVoid > Gustavo are the most likely scum on the wagon, which means Shoshin and Bernie are v likely town. Even if I’m slightly wrong about the details of my wagon analysis, those four players seem the least likely to be the scum on/off the wagon. That’s my thoughts process there, and it matches my reads of each of those slots.

I’ll go find the quote for Skitter shading me because I think my paraphrase was poor

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: mom

ftr i consider irrelephant's vote suspect given that he was hard townreading her yesterday for little reason and i literally called out all of her bad interactions with the gamma wagon yesterday repeatedly

p-edit: yes, all of those

Sorry, what part are we scumreading here? The way I'm voting your scumread? Or the way my read on Mom changed to match new information? (Or some third option, don't let me box you in)

the way i pointed out all the problems you have with her play yesterday and you ignored them because she was on your highest tier of townreads, which you couldn't actually justify when prodded to do so

i'm slightly worried that both you and bernie jumped on her today and it makes me wonder if she's either the designated mislynch or the designated bus, although your pair of votes does seem to be indicative that the two of you (bernie and irrelephant) are probably not partners

this was meant to be a response to the above quote; i put a quote by duckling there instead

What I like here is that Skitter shows an inner conflict of “hmm I think Mom is scummy but Irrelephant joining me without a clear progression muddles things for me”. I could maybe see scum motivation to lynch Mom and have me take the fall but idk it reads genuine to me.

Re: Nauci I remember thinking EOD2 “if Gamma flips town Nauci seems ready to say she told us so, so check her out D2”. I haven’t had time this weekend to actually go back and examine me memory of this more closely but it’s a part of my reads until I do

[Irrelephant11]

Tell me more

Also how are you reading Mom’s progression on Gamma?

[Irrelephant11]

I definitely feel like I let Mom go easy after finding a couple reasons to townread her D1

[Irrelephant11]

I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

Hi TW, sorry to re-tread old ground, but are you seeing town!Nauci

now

?

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

Mm i feel this actually

Part of me is like “wow effort! Nauci is probs town” but agreed that not much else makes me townread her, if anything

Pedit: well this is concerning then

[Irrelephant11]

@errant How is it inconsistent?

@blackvoid all questions you directed to me have been answered. :thumbs up:

@nauci while it’s tempting to go re-read the first letter of all your posts... You’re certainly working hard, but I know from experience that you put in hard work as both alignments. You only got replaced that game because you spent too long writing too many words (as scum)! Off the top of my head though I can’t think of anything that comes from town-you more likely than it comes from scum-you. Sorry if that’s insulting, but it’s certainly notable that two other people said they felt the same way unprompted. I’ll have more to say about your alignment when I ISO you later

@Not_Mafia any chance you wanna vote someone?

[Irrelephant11]

Haha what

What?

Hahahahahaha

At this point im confused if Gustavo and i are reading the same game

Nauci did not suggest that she has

actually

crumbed a role, she said “what more do you want, an obvious crumb of my role?”
But also, how would this even be AI?

Hahahahahaha
Like if Gustavo is scum his strategy seems to be “say things that are clearly untrue with bravado and everyone will ignore you” which I reallly really like as a scumstrategy because it’s hilarious


Though if Shoshin and Nauci are a pair I will be v upset

[Irrelephant11]

This is the bullshit I’m taking about. Not only does nobody see glaring scum, they ignore blatant misreps, take cheap jabs, and make fun of me. Sorry I’m human. I make mistakes.

Fuck this shit

Oh geez

No, I’m sorry. I really don’t want this to come across as personal. Regardless of what I think about your play style, your alignment, etc. I’m not laughing at you. I still don’t know your alignment, and considering scum-you was funny there (especially so because i generally agree you’re much more likely town). Anyway. If I’ve offended you, i really am sorry. I’m having fun, and want that to be true for all of us. Seems like I overstepped and maybe made this less fun for you. Sorry about that, Gustavo.

I’m gonna take a break for like 12, maybe 18 hours.

[Irrelephant11]

Keyser why aren’t you voting?
Gustavo what do you think of Skitter/Bernie/Mom(/Shoshin if you want) in regards to the last few pages?
Not_Mafia who did you try to shoot last night?

There’s a lot going on in terms of votes and it’s making things a little messy

As it turns out Skitter has actually tried to “told you so” a lot more about Gamma’s lynch than Nauci. So switch Skitter and Nauci in my earlier vca reads
Nauci has said things that feel scummy but as I read her ISO with “town!Nauci” glasses it actually explained some things and made more sense than just trying to discern her alignment as I went.

VOTE: skitter30, you said EOD1 you lost your townread on nauci, then later said you townread Nauci because “there’s gotta be town somewhere”. What happened in between those reads?

[Irrelephant11]

For the record I was also considering voting tw but idk I’m not ready for L-2 on him yet

[Irrelephant11]

Alright I'm getting distracted. I don't think we have good odds of hitting scum off-Gamma-wagon, unless anyone has reason to specifically think more scum were offwagon than on.

VOTE: the worst,

this is L-2

Honestly think Not_Mafia has good odds to be scum here too, but it's hard to make a case for obvious reasons

[Irrelephant11]

Mmm
So if momrangal is town I'd expect one of two things depending on her read strength of me here
If hard scumreading, vote and push convincingly as priority.
If anything but, engage with me.
But this reaction is kind of evasive and somewhat talking around the point or of making judgment.[/quote]
I don't think you or Mom have anything impressive to say about each other, honestly.

Can you summarize your Mom case? I know other people's but from a quick look it seems like yours consists of these two posts?

Momrangals first focus here on a townread somewhat betraying(?) her rather than on who is scum or analyzing anything given gamma flipped is no bueno.

I'm not against voting Mom, I just think the worst has higher scum equity. Without as much time to play the past couple of days, I haven't had a chance to ISO my scumreads and compare, but my gut says the worst being a bad vote on Gamma means he's more likely than Mom to flip red. I'll help lynch Mom if that's town consensus, but I think Mom and Keyser are equally likely to be off-wagon scum and I'm not sure which it is (I haven't considered them both being scum yet, but idk from memory that seems unlikely)

[Irrelephant11]

I don't think you or Mom have anything impressive to say about each other, honestly.

Can you summarize your Mom case? I know other people's but from a quick look it seems like yours consists of these two posts?

Momrangals first focus here on a townread somewhat betraying(?) her rather than on who is scum or analyzing anything given gamma flipped is no bueno.

Mmm
So if momrangal is town I'd expect one of two things depending on her read strength of me here
If hard scumreading, vote and push convincingly as priority.
If anything but, engage with me.
But this reaction is kind of evasive and somewhat talking around the point or of making judgment.

I'm not against voting Mom, I just think the worst has higher scum equity. Without as much time to play the past couple of days, I haven't had a chance to ISO my scumreads and compare, but my gut says the worst being a bad vote on Gamma means he's more likely than Mom to flip red. I'll help lynch Mom if that's town consensus, but I think Mom and Keyser are equally likely to be off-wagon scum and I'm not sure which it is (I haven't considered them both being scum yet, but idk from memory that seems unlikely)

EBWOP

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin what do you think of Not_Mafia's slot? Also what do you think of my VCA? Also also is it safe yet for me to townread both Nauci and skitter because I've wanted to all game but have been hesitant because their perspectives often align with each other but not always my own, so then I think one of them is scum using the other as a town benchmark, but idk which or if maybe they're both just town?

Also skitter you were right I wasn't considering context with your read of Nauci, I was mostly skimming your EOD1 and that just stuck out to me.

pedit: stungun was 100% certain he was town, which idk what to do with and is part of why I've let my Key-push sit and wait for other flips

But wow yes "passive" has been my scumread on him the wholeeeee game

[Irrelephant11]

Also skitter you were right I wasn't considering context with your read of Nauci, I was mostly skimming your EOD1 and that just stuck out to me.

yes, and this is the second time you've voted me without actually paying attention to the context of what i'm saying

like the things you've been voting me for don't actually match up to what i'm doing

I'm having trouble sorting you/am paranoid about you
sorry bout it

[Irrelephant11]

Hey the worst when you're around can you speak to Skitter being frustrated about being right and unheard (in this case about Gamma's wagon, but she says it's a common thing for her)?

[Irrelephant11]

@Shoshin

I’m estimating two scum on wagon and one off

Those of you off the wagon, since Gamma is town, which of the other four off the wagon seem most likely to be scum?

No, I helped lynch JB, and you helped lynch Thor, and both our slots lynched Flicker.

It's not "astrology", because I'm including:
1. how nearly impossible it is for 7/10 town to vote one of the other two town without a single scum vote
2. Scum incentive to vote town
3. That weird lull in voting and talking while the wagon was on Gamma that made me think he was scum but instead it now seems more likely that scum was waiting for us to make that mistake
4. There are 5 non-Gamma players off-wagon and 7 on wagon, meaning it's already +rand that there are more scum on wagon than off
5. Scum incentive to not all vote in the same place.

I'm obviously not going to vote someone I townread because of VCA, especially because most of these players seems smart enough to mess with VCA at least a little as scum. But vca is a helpful tool and it is honestly just very likely that I'm write about the 2/1 split, with a possible exception in the case of lurky scum

These are my two main VCA posts but also like half my posts since then have referenced these thoughts and I was curious why you're focusing so much on Keyser/Skitter/Mom when none of them voted Gamma

[Irrelephant11]

Keyser why aren’t you voting?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Gustavo

Why?