NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[profii]

VOTE: GUSTavo

Strong winds might wake the baby (all the good puns were taken)

[profii]

I’ll just take that as a compliment for ongoing game reasons

Pedit @ tworst

[profii]

If you kill me then I can spam the dead bread with puns until my hearts content... that wouldn’t be the worst thing but you better win without me :@

[profii]

Aw sweet I rolled scum! That's one down guys, climb on board!

VOTE: Elbirn

Ah look, some WIFOM, this will help us

[profii]

I didn't say hi to anyone this game. (And I'm keeping that way)

Aloha, which means both hello and goodbye.

I'll keep you guessing which it is in this case.

Ciao

[profii]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

[profii]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

I would hardly call this scummy. It’s well within RVS. It is odd tho.
I would vote you Elbirn , but I’m flip flopping like crazy.

No lynching on day 1 is actively not scum hunting

Self voting is super dumb because it is wifom between omg is he brave scum or is he OMG double bluffing for reaction tests- at least in town!elbirns world he is reaction testing but the question I would ask is, let me know if you get anything useful? You generally don’t


Ideally I say we move on from both of these but no voting on day 1 in my mind is worse than a self vote haha.

[profii]

VOTE: profli

Well this doesn’t look like RVS. Porque por favor?

[profii]

VOTE: profli

Well this doesn’t look like RVS. Porque por favor?

I don’t like your posts so far

Which ones and why

[profii]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

Why is this scummy to you?

The following post needs to be read in context of “RVS I suppose”

The self vote was bad - if you are scum, voting yourself is anti win con, if you are town, then we all have wifom over the slot because it could be a random gambit/reaction test but it certainly doesn’t help scum hunt

Then we had he no vote. Obviously excluding vigs, we can only kill scum via lynch so again, anti win con play

Admittedly - it moved us out of RVS

I think I’ll be looking at this Rask wagon in a bit for a serious vote, whilst it’s bad play, I’m not sure I’m calling it scummy. As much as I said to Elbirn lynch your scum buddy, I was more interested to see how he felt about the apparent counter reaction test, I’m assuming he Elbirn is town for trying that play (even though i don’t like it)

[profii]

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

Why is this scummy to you?

The following post needs to be read in context of “RVS I suppose”

The self vote was bad - if you are scum, voting yourself is anti win con, if you are town, then we all have wifom over the slot because it could be a random gambit/reaction test but it certainly doesn’t help scum hunt

Then we had he no vote. Obviously excluding vigs, we can only kill scum via lynch so again, anti win con play

Admittedly - it moved us out of RVS

I think I’ll be looking at this Rask wagon in a bit for a serious vote, whilst it’s bad play, I’m not sure I’m calling it scummy. As much as I said to Elbirn lynch your scum buddy, I was more interested to see how he felt about the apparent counter reaction test, I’m assuming he Elbirn is town for trying that play (even though i don’t like it)

oh yeah you like fast forwarding day 1

I dunno what your lack of forthcoming schtick is all about though

[profii]

I go to bed and literally the entire world posts while I'm asleep. LITERALLY!

Serious question to everyone, can anyone read profii? Because I always scum read him and its happening again, and I know I can't read him.

Also, HitAlt, am I one of the people you have played with in the past?

I dunno why but I get that a lot - I tend to stick to things that are factual or logical and people tend to be really scared of it but idk why.

for example, no lynching vote is a bad play as it is against our only way of killing scum. It's undisputable, it's not LAMIST as dave said, I'm just highlighting something that people were not talking about to get people to discuss it.

then a wagon formed on Rask - I think we will find opportunistic scum in there, but I'm just popping by on my lunch break so I'll check the VC later.

[profii]

I know but I dunno how to fix it.

[profii]

Inferno... meet Gus.

I think Profii took the entire ordeal way too serious but I don't hold that as scummy, but NAI - and I doubt scum!profii would try to gain town cred by coming off as scum because as we see some people scumread him more often even when he's town.

TW is amazing and you can expect a lot of fluff and I have a feeling I might have a bad read on scumduck at times

This might be where I’ve miscommunicated and might be something to do with where people struggle to read me but your opinion matters more than mine there

I’m not sure why Gus said self voting is anti win con - of course it is
Also no voting is anti town win con - you can’t remove scum any other practical way

To answer your question about Rask though, Whilst I think the “play” is a bad idea, it’s not NAI, it just makes us over think that slot. As I said earlier, one of the voters will use that as an oppurtunity to get on the wagon so I’ll take a look after footy tonight


*note I’m a few pages behind rn

[profii]

Gus called me iioa - I dunno what that means

[profii]

Mid game is too late to wait, if no one has a strong read by day 2, he's the day 2 lynch, I think.

To be fair I’d agree in a weird way. I usually get an awesome day 1 gut read or 2 but when it gets to LyLo I have no idea how to convince the last player I’m the town option so I’d prefer not to have that responsibility for the rest of the team - however I think scum pick up on this and keep me alive - if you wiki me, I have a good survival rate (imo) and I am fully aware that isn’t necessarily a good thing

[profii]

Gus called me iioa - I dunno what that means

Refer to post 236. Classic example. You make wordy posts to appear like you are doing something but when I reach the end I don’t see you actually doing anything

Ok out of interest what does it stand for

[profii]

Gus called me iioa - I dunno what that means

Refer to post 236. Classic example. You make wordy posts to appear like you are doing something but when I reach the end I don’t see you actually doing anything

Ok out of interest what does it stand for

Am I even here? Is this a sixth sense scenario?

Still catching up (via phone) missed that sorry dude

[profii]

Gus called me iioa - I dunno what that means

Refer to post 236. Classic example. You make wordy posts to appear like you are doing something but when I reach the end I don’t see you actually doing anything

Use post tags, it's really not that hard.

For me it is. So I’d appreciate if you just accept that going forward. Thank you

I did say in the post that I would analyse the wagon later. I see the vote count but it felt like there was other voters who may have moved. If not I’d be looking at those 3 currently voting for the scummiest but I haven’t had a chance to iso properly yet

So that is my analysis so far - scum likely to use this scenario to wagon Rask opportunistically - further analysis on specific voters to follow and my first serious vote to be placed

I think that constitutes something nearer analysis than info and I’d point out I’ve already said everything there but thanks for the feedback

[profii]

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

I don't think rask has done anything shady but would still entertain him as scum coasting

Also this post counts as a term I liked in another game “political”

Ready for some “I told you so” after a flip but not committed to voting

I see why votes seem to be heading this way - I’ll be measuring this up against the other 3 players even though there is no vote as such

[profii]

Gus - obviously Inferno is scum reading you with vigour however do you think Inferno is scum/town/nai so far?

[profii]

Can you explain why a no vote or a self vote can be pro town? (Particularly the self vote, I can see that a no vote might be a cop out of town can’t find scum but usually flips and odd number player lists are more useful imo)

[profii]

I didn’t say you said that. But I’m asking you to provide reasons that those actions are pro town, irrespective of anything I said

[profii]

That makes sense to me though w/profii? nolynching d1 definitely doesn't help the town. Like, I agree Rask's actions weren't scummy but I feel profii's actions weren't either.

This is basically my point
I feel like I don’t really understand where Gus is coming from so I’m happy to just leave it and draw a line under it but if Gus wants to explain more I’m happy to listen

[profii]

My logic was simply if we no lynch then we cannot remove scum from the game (exception vig)

Therefore it’s bad

Whilst that sounds bad for Rask I’m more interested in seeing how the 3 voters plus flubber get on - it’s easy for scum to say “bad play we must lynch it” so I’d say odds are 1 of those 4 are probably scum

[profii]

Yes I understand all of that. But to say no lynching is against your win condition is ridiculous. (I’d use a much stronger word but you guys are too sensitive).

I refuse to believe town profli believes that. I tbink he’s scum trying to throw dirt on an easy target.

I would 100% say this any game any alignment. (Well any normal without weird rules)

It’s NAI

I’d rather take a x% chance of hitting a scum vs a guaranteed 0% chance

It’s just a statistic

Anyway, point made, we are out of RVS - I’m not voting Rask for it because there hasnt been much else there. I’m moving on

I think it’s fair to say we just play the game differently - it’s not a criticism, variety is just the spice of life

[profii]

Ok so now we have Rask content... easily town

[profii]

pretty sure we have two obvscum already. I'm intentionally withholding my vote until I'm satisfied with a couple of things

Lol I’m doing the same thing and you were one of the people but I think I’m towning you for doing that

[profii]

Ok so now we have Rask content... easily town

Why does content = town?

Nah the content he provided was town, I just couldn’t be bothered to pick anything out... I’m interpreting being chill as an excuse to be lazy haha

[profii]

Ok so now we have Rask content... easily town

Why does content = town?

Nah the content he provided was town, I just couldn’t be bothered to pick anything out... I’m interpreting being chill as an excuse to be lazy haha

By the way, this is a perfect example of what I just said.

I feel like anyone could have read Profii's post and figured out what he meant, but not Gus, who apparently only speaks English.

Well then you are mistake. 1. Profli wasn’t clear. 2. Now he’s clarified, I disagree. The posts rask made don’t make him obv town.

so how do you feel about the Rask slot?

[profii]

I will answer but excuse me if I wait a bit - I’m just waiting for a couple of things to happen. I have a plan

[profii]

I’ll post a bit more tonight if I get time after the World Cup. I have a couple of scum reads to share shortly

Interesting that Gus is still being discussed - someone made the point earlier that it’s tricky to be that bizarre and be scum because keeping all the lies in line with each other would be tough.

However - if you think about it, it’s an easy meta to reproduce, you can just be flip floppy on everything and accuse everyone else of being against you for unclear reasons

I am leaning the former not the latter but I intend to largely disregard Gus’ existence

[profii]

I have a bit of time before the kick off

The Worst - you wanted to know some things from me, phone posting so can’t remeber the exact questions so if you want to know more just ask.


Anyway, see 309

I didn’t really do this on purpose, but it occurred to me I called an action bad (Rask no lynch vote) and a minor wagon started - you / Sky / Xyzzy / flubber posturing around it.

So it occurred to me that maybe scum would use my calling Rask bad as an oppurtunity to get on a Rask wagon because I had provided a reason for them.

So I was waiting to see how these players moved off that wagon to see who looked most scummy.

- the worst, I don’t think I’ve played your scum game so I’m not sure but your moving around wagons is something I’ve seen you do as town
- xyzzy, I’m not a great fan of that post with all the post links as it didn’t really go anywhere
- sky- I didn’t like that unvote but I appreciate not everyone has loads of time - I certainly avoid games any bigger than this because I am not sharp enough to keep up properly so I’d like to say to sky please provide 3 scum reads and why
flubber, seems more bothered that he is mixed up in his than really scum hunting, it’s he most off for me and I’m pretty sure scum is in these 4 players


VOTE: Flubber

I’m just going to re read sky a bit as this wagon has appeared - I’ve been heavily focussed on the Rask thing so far

[profii]

sorry if I did something wrong. I was just trying to redirect the focus of the thread.

Stop arguing with the mod!

[profii]

Also, profii, of everyone that "wagoned" rask,why did you vote me?

missed this earlier sorry

I will be amazed if we aren't finding a scum in {The worst / flubber / xyzzy / sky } so i've been monitoring you lot more than any other group of players tbh.

i dont think it's tw so ive ruled him out.

Sky has pressure and in the spirit of being chill, I'm waiting for her to overcome the IRL things making her lurk. but idk, maybe I'm being mod manipulated into not death tunnelling there.

i dont like your posturing post that got mentioned, i know it was really early but it bugged me a lot. You then also got into Gus and Ausuka - i think gus doesn't like day 1 at all, so he's just nai for day1 tbh. I also think Ausuka will become easily sortable later in the game, idk how well you know her scum game? But seemed a weird read. My gut is just telling me you are using highly conflicting logic to me

i dont like xyzzys post in 180 either. It has random reads mixed with non-relevant content, almost sent to confuse or make it look like there is more content than there really is.


I guess the timing was wrong because that sky wagon sucked all the pressure off you so my vote alone isnt really going to pressure anything out of you. I could vote sky but I've asked what her scum reads are and I'm chilling so I'm being less forthright with my vote but i also wanted to move off RVS on to something more real

Notably, you agreed with my 309 post - who would you say is the scum involved in rask wagoning
'?

[profii]

hang on hang on hang on.

Flubber posturers over that mini Rask wagon.
Ausuka then votes for Rask,
if you look at the Ausuka ISO, from my POV there is a bit of buddying, agreeing with my point about the Rask No lynch. Also, she states she has played my scum game 3x, we've also played scum together so she knows I know her scum game.
Then Ausuka gets on 5th place of the Sky wagon - a handy way to get off that town-cred bus flubber vote.

The only reason I went back to look at that is Dave pointed out the lack of opinion on sky, which dave is correct to highlight.

no way is that 2 scum in day 1 but lol if it is.

[profii]

ebwop = line 3
Ausuka then votes for

rask

flubber

[profii]

I guess I just haven't played with you before and I'm getting familiar with your playstyle.

you often see people think they have spotted something scummy and go 'look guys - look at this, this must be scum!' - the first list post was your first significant contribution after a bit of a gap/catchup and I didn't really see that push in any particular direction, so I was a bit like eh.

I kinda look for scum to be arranging certain things for long game town cred - so like my post about ausuka/flubber voting in a particular pattern but I guess I don't see that from you either, so I guess it make sense if this is your style and it kinda helps me ratify my position that flubber was more scummy than you in the Rask wagon.

I'll look at skygazer again now...

[profii]

Skygazer is one to watch for now, can kinda see why there is a big wagon there, but I fancy Flubber for it rn. Would d1-hammer either tbh.

[profii]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

Not sure “thus town” was explicitly stated, however I am not sure what conclusion we are supposed to draw other than that

[profii]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

Not sure “thus town” was explicitly stated, however I am not sure what conclusion we are supposed to draw other than that

Why did you post this?

I thought he was right but in a shade casty way when he didn’t need to be. Idk thought it was weird

[profii]

For I am here with you

[profii]

In post 305, profii wrote:
In post 304, Ausuka wrote:
That makes sense to me though w/profii? nolynching d1 definitely doesn't help the town. Like, I agree Rask's actions weren't scummy but I feel profii's actions weren't either.

This is basically my point
I feel like I don’t really understand where Gus is coming from so I’m happy to just leave it and draw a line under it but if Gus wants to explain more I’m happy to listen


Yeah, I'm not a fan of this post.

Why don't you continue to try and understand? I don't like the "don't like it, but bye" mentality here... especially since your vote's still on him. You're just parking your vote without doing anything else.

530 is the only reason I'm not voting you atm - because you actually did something with your vote since 13

But I do want to know why you feel Flubb is scum. Or elaborate on what you've stated on him?

your posts are hard to quote, so excuse the formatting...

At that point, my vote was RVS so it didnt carry much weight tbh.

anyway, my logic to day 1 so far is that Rask RVS No lynched. I called it bad and a mini wagon formed.

Whilst this wasn't really my intention it got me thinking, it made me think that someone on that mini wagon is scum.

I include Flubber because he all but voted - posturing - so to speak.

If you look at my interactions with The Worst, I was waiting for 'something' to happen. I was looking at the wagon'eers and how they were going to leave the flubber wagon.

I considered Sky for just unvoting, but she said she was a bit vla so in the spirit of being chill, I figured Flubber was the most scummy remaining whilst I gave Sky a chance to contribute.

I was actually going to re-assess my vote as the 2 prevailing wagons were Sky and you, so i was going to get on to one as Sky was also fairly scummy in just sneaking off Rask imo and people seem to have some legit concerns over dave/you. I figured adding to these wagons might drive the day towards something, such as a counter wagon, which might be telling, however flubber is picking up so im going to hang there.


to go more into gus specifically - he get's triggered if you simply dont agree with him, you can both be town and he says 'lynch A' whilst i say 'lynch B' and he creates a conflict. He is quite frankly, a lunatic who i will not play with again, which is why i took that approach with him.

Conclusion: Scum is either very strong, or town is very weak. No middle ground. I feel like there's been much more town-wagons and town-suspected in this game than anything else.

explain this? It's day 1. Whilst we are all scum hunting, it's never super successful on day 1, so i'm not sure what you are getting at here

[profii]

I'm likely to vote sky/taly if Flubber wagon doesn't go anywhere. I'll take another look at Dramonic, but I've pretty much been focussed on my Rask'ers thing, Taly has been the only other player to really hit my scum-dar whilst I've stayed there so perhaps Dramonic is worth a read.

[profii]

Elbirn's stock definitely goes up in my book this weekend, and he was already pretty good. Taly's down. I still think dramonic is the best lynch, though.

So, I'm going back to dramonic, since it seems no one is working with anyone, might as well set off on my own like everyone seems to be doing.

VOTE: dramonic

out of interest what do you think of dramonic and taly together, dramonic seems to get involved in the dave ending so idk I don't think I'd see that as SvS bus on day 1?

[profii]

Ausuka, completely not game related per se but I don’t think I would be able to ask this out of this thread and I can’t wait

Who did you think Gus was? I thought Jake from State Farm / rob / chumba / derpy hooves but I asked in another game and he wouldn’t admit it at least

[profii]

good & interesting

Despite his tunnel style I always showed a level of respect for his play however I found his Gus alt extremely difficult - I might re read his posts now you’ve said he actively deniies his alts

[profii]

i was about to split the new HitAlt wagon into voters that never got on the Flubber wagon and voters that moved over

the assumption being scum don’t want to bus Flubber so any “new voters” could be scum

But it looks like the entire wagon comprises of people who didn’t vote flubber. Interesting

[profii]

But it looks like the entire wagon comprises of people who didn’t vote flubber. Interesting

This is such a profii way to make an astute observation.

someone who has played with me enough to say that. Interesting - because I've only played a dozen or so games here.

I had a good feeling we had played before though.

[profii]

PS I think I know but I wont out you... I dunno if I'm allowed to PM you whilst we are playing

[profii]

Though noted dramonic also counts towards the people who were going to vote flub and went to hitalt group

Ooo

I was surprised when I looked at the Flubber votes and found no one on the HitAlt wagon that was from the flubber wagon but I was lazy and just iso’d pine for the last VC so I must have missed that

I’d join that wagon !

[profii]

The point dramonic is trying to make is that HitAlt is not taking a hard stance on anything in the game, which is scummy in his opinion.

I agree, and furthermore find it scummy that he refuses to take a hard stance on anything while aggressively trying to push his way through everyone to a position of town authority.

Hmmm I think HitAlt on Sky is more like it’s day 1 and I want to lynch a new player, these 2 factors mean I can’t be sure

Rather than something like I am scum trying to lynch town and I’m posturing for when I know it will go wrong

But maybe I’m biased because Sky is in my Rask wagon pool of people I would likely lynch today

[profii]

@MoI - I believe I was mistaken with that assertion - apparently Dramonic moved so I would say perhaps he is bussing Flubber and using the HitAlt wagon to get off the bus.

So I’d be ok with a dram lynch today - probably helps us deal with flubber and those wagoneers

[profii]

I like the flubber wagon
I said earlier I'd join a dramonic wagon.
Sky fits in my criteria of Rask voters so I could vote there too.

I'm easy either way but whilst we have 6 on Flubber I'll stick there, if it dies off and a wagon on those 2 forms then I'll join.

[profii]

actually HitAlt

you created a honeytrap with SkyGazer. Tell me what you think happened with that again?

[profii]

We have a competing wagon in flubs,

HA could be a good PR

, TW might just be bad at scum.
Those are three valid reasons (albeit the third might not be I dont know the guy besides site chat)

If you ever thought I was a town-PR, you should never say something like this out loud..!
VOTE: dramonic - my mind is actually made at this point I think.

But if scum!dramonic thinks that, he can just PT his buddies... why is that of all things AI and not just bad town

[profii]

For that 82 quote
If someone is reaction testing by post 82 maybe it could have been scum perpetrating as “I’m so obviously trying to scum hunt, look at me catching them out here” - I don’t think anyone is going to slip from it particularly so early in the game

Elbirns gone completely off my radar so tbh I’d forgotten. He should post more

[profii]

VC ?

[profii]

I am probably going to vote Dram but I prefer flubber so just waiting for the VC to see if it’s worth sticking or will dram be the way we are going

Someone said plenty of time but I disagree as it’s hard to get everyone going in a specific direction quickly, particularly at weekend so just making my intentions known for now

[profii]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

Noting this. It’s almost like Inferno knows Taly will flip town here :-/

[profii]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.

Noting this. It’s almost like Inferno knows Taly will flip town here :-/

This is based off of a previous newbie game where a very similar thing happened: a scummy slot replaced out and our IC pushed the heck out of “it doesn’t matter what the replacement does, the slot is still scum.”
And guess what? The slot was Town.
So while I don’t know what Taly’s gonna flip, I do know that dramonic’s “read” has about zero ground under it.

Yea but in your iso you are not particularly advocating a Taly town lean that I can pick out easily, which you seem to be implying is going to happen.

But you are strongly pushing Dramonic for, essentially, tunnelling. Whilst that is a bad play, I don’t think it’s always scummy, obviously people will get their reads wrong

That being said, that isn’t what makes Dram scummy, so if he does flip town we’d be catching scum he next day anyway via the associatives so if flubber doesn’t come through I’ll almost certainly be on Dram come nightfall

[profii]

VOTE: Xyzzy

Flashwagon this. Xyzzy has naught but fluffposting and walls of "I like this post" with no real substance or analysis and actually clicking through their wall of post links only furthers the disappointment.

Scum is lurking through this game and letting us run up lynch baity people for playing poorly but not necessarily scummy. Rally to me boys and girls and xirs, the dark times end now

Ok
VOTE: xyzzy

But Elbirn, thoughts on xyzzy's latest post? It was a good one...at least what of it I skimmed. Gonna be honest, I am getting very sleepy at the moment.

Its a good a post but I’ll vote there? Explain that please

Personally, I disagree, as per my initial comment on xyzzy following the Rask wagon analysis I feel like xyzzy is just parroting a lot of popular opinion and not really asserting anything new

I see Rask has left flubber to go xyzzy but I’m not sure which wagon is winning between xyzzy and dram & we need to hone in on a lynch _soon_

Xyzzy has the momentum right now so

VOTE: xyzzy

However if the VC appears and Dram is ahead (or people go there), I’m with you. Also, if we go back to flubber I’m in.

[profii]

can someone gimme a quick synopsis of why xyzzy flashwagon?

I can only speak for myself

He mainly voted Rask way back at the start and one of you 4 (inc flubber) is scum - is my best day 1 guess

He seems to just be going with the flow and sheeping a lot of stuff already posted, not really contesting anything or bringing new ideas, almost attempting to go under the radar on purpose

So that coupled with a low overall contribution to the day is making me believe scum are lettting us go in the wrong direction and xyzzy fits that jigsaw quite neatly

I also gut felt his wagon had surpassed Dram and we need a lynch

[profii]

Oh god

[profii]

It’s fair to say your lynch pool is better but given that scum will be in the lurkers, xyzzy is arguably an ok lynch just not as optimal.

i Think you are calling it scummy to get people to come round to your way out of fear though. Interesting


I’ll sit for a bit and see if we are going for flubbber or dram today

[profii]

Of course there’s an argument that there’s at least 1 scum in the lurkers.
But what makes xyzzy a better lurker to lynch than all the other ones?
Why’s it so important to lynch lurkers that it’s worth jeopardizing D2 information?
And what if xyzzy is Town and Elbirn is wrong? What happens then?

There are far too many ways for a flashwagon like this to go wrong and not nearly enough to go right. And the fact that Elbirn refuses to work with Town on the current lynchpool by go, “Oh, here’s a lurker I don’t like! Flashwagon him!” Is super scummy imo.

That’s better

[profii]

So we are agreed that prime number fits in the rules?

VOTE: flubber

[profii]

Oh and not cc’ing

[profii]

Inferno you realise you called the xyzzy wagon scummy and it appears to me like you just didn’t look kenthat people are moving away from your lynch pool

Alright you corrected it and said Elbirn was the scummy one for advocating it but still, point stands

Then you have considered that HitAlt is a lynchbait mislynch but good for info, something you have _just_ advocated against


Could it be that you know HitAlt is town but you just don’t know how to get on that wagon?

[profii]

@Taly: I have a town lean on you and Hit. Null on flub. Strong scumread on dramonic.

That being said, the lynchpool is not based on my reads alone. It’s based on the fact that there has simply not been enough discussion around any other players to justify a lynch. I believe wholeheartedly that we should be trying to lynch scum. But there is always the possibility of being wrong on a read, no matter how good it is. And the only way to counteract a mislynch is by lynching in such a way that town gets information to work off of the next day.
Lynching outside of this pool, IMO, completely destroys any reasonable chance we have of having a productive D2.
Say xyzzy is scum. Great. One less scum to deal with. Then what? We lynched out of a hat more or less, and now we have nothing to go off of D2.
And if he's town? We've literally wasted D1 on a flashwagon.
Dramonic woud be my prefered lynch at this point. But this is the pool town as a whole needs to agree within in the next 24 hours.

Do you _have_ other scum reads outside of dram/lynchpool

[profii]

I’d vote him but I feel like now isn’t the time

[profii]

Way too many yellow avatars for my tiny brain here

[profii]

That link takes me to #0 dude

Fixed.

[profii]

So sorry for everyone who genuinely scumread me for how I've played.
All I can say is that this hasn't been anything like my usual playstyle.

you're either not who I think you are, or it's not that different :p

I wasn't lynching HitAlt anyway, but I still won't today.

Let's go flubber let's go

[profii]

you're either not who I think you are, or it's not that different :p

You don't know Jack.

sure?

[profii]

THIS is how to claim:

Not waiting to get lolhammered while at work.
Im a prime-night Jailkeeper. So jk on 2-3-5-7

Way to derail a scumlynch to out your PRs people

This is how NOT to claim:

I am a town-PR. Have been crumbing it from the start. I have a role that gets a lot more value out of results after some flips, so it also benefits from scum not thinking I'm worth a block or kill.I find it so hard to NOT post, but I've also found it hard to produce anything that doesn't ruin my nightresults.

The difference is the former CLAIMED, the latter didn't claim anything and is just using the 'tee hee im a town PR' to try and avoid getting lynched. You've played an abysmal game and you STILL haven't produced the promised content and/or reads and are still hiding behind some tee hee role claim.

NEWS FLASH. Apparently this is a 'role madness normal' so the claim means nothing.

this helps make my point

I'm not interested in lynching HitAlt because the latter part of your post is what boon does and I think HitAlt is boon. Although he says he is playing differently, HitAlt said something along the lines of 'such a profii thing to say' or something, and Boon is one of few players to a) played enough to say that about me. b) play as per the latter part of your post and get away with it.

I didn't want to call out his alt, but if he denies being Boon, I'd probably get on board the wagon

[profii]

VOTE: flubber

[profii]

Lol

[profii]

I was already on the wagon

[profii]

Watch wait and see

[profii]

Just to be totally clear - I did not hammer. We have less than a day. We either need to intent Flubber, or move on quickly

[profii]

mod / all

apologies - VLA until sunday, manic at work and visiting fam this weekend... I'm skim keeping up but there's loads to comment on so I'll put in a concerted effort towards end of weekend/next week

[profii]

Gonna do a catch-up after lunch but I’m miles behind

Are there any confirmed truths that I should know so my narrative is right as I go through

[profii]

I think TW is a serial killer

We clearly have a doctor as no Town death so if you’re a vig be open, get protected, rek scum. That moments passed now


Also, if our best guess is that Chickadee/Andrius are potentially lovers, I’m a little bit concerned at the wagon there -

Noting Brass’ point that one of the fruit vendors could be disloyal - that means Andrius is still inno? I’m guessing either Brass is right or the claims are legit to reduce the cop factor especially if HitAlt has a decent PR there.

Anyway, point being, if Chick/Andrius are livers, doesn’t that mean they both die if Chick lynched? Therefore we lose an inno. The wiki also says they can win as their own mini faction but I’ve not checked the new normal rules yet.

Given Chicks vengeful claim, I’m concerned she could be scum, then by killing her we lose Andrius plus another townie


Is that mechanically sound?


Anyway, going to read Talys wall on Elbirn, kinda skipped the wall posts as I’m still phone posting whilst travelling but I’ve got another couple hours in the car and it seems to be worth a read so brb!

[profii]

This really bugs me.

Some random coincidence that Taly knew TW had bullets, but if the scum-team is Taly-TW-Dram then lololol what a play

However how did Taly know TW had bullets

[profii]

I’ll sort Taly/Sky/Elbirn subject to Taly answer

The next most obvious thing seems to consider the 2 fruit vendors - I just played a game with town & scum commuters, can’t remember if it was odd / even night but whatever - it’s likely to be a coin toss to find the scum out of those 2 players rather than the mod trying to weaken the loyal element of the role - I believe this because one player came out and said, “could be scum disloyal” which could be a TMI slip- (Brass) I do think he could be right though

I’m not really inclined to race too much further ahead at this point. We can deal with the pressing issues for now.


But then you kinda dismissed the lovers point which seems weird because the worst case scenario is we lynch Chick, inadvertently kill Andrius via lovers and Chick hits another town- 3 players down.

This makes me think Chick!town and a Rask/Ausuka long con because you were pretty blasé about me suggesting lynching a scum!chick which would actually mean we lose 3 town if I’m wrong plus you got in first with suggesting it couldn’t possibly be you which is really up to everyone else - it’s a bit like TW suggesting nah there isn’t a SK honestly - lol ok!

That’s where I’m at rn anyway

[profii]

Brass - oh man, hope that all works out ok for you, whatever that might look like of course

[profii]

I’ll assume TW can verify that so let’s just chalk that up to coincidence for now

In a sentence what made you go Elbirn over Sky - it looks a fairly close call in your analysis

I’ve not been too active in this game day, but it looks like we’ve gone Chick wagon -> Elbirn wagon

So as the wagon got close quick, my guess is scum are happy to help us with this lynch. Kinda wondering if we wagon Sky to see if it gets as big as fast, kinda wondering if sky will stall when Scum don’t want to bus - I’m surprised I’m the first person to say “well Talys analysis suggest 1 of 2 players are scum” it just seems really weird that all these voters went “yeah Elbirn” -

I know there is a school of thought that says we should do as the town agrees on, I’m kinda just sense checking that my skin read hasn’t led me to a wrong conclusion about a fairly rapid wagon.

I guess I can get on board with Elbirn if that’s what everyone wants to do and I’m taking the risk that if he flips scum you all bus me and inno Sky, which, would be against my scum!profii win con - so hopefully you take this query as me just checking and not trying to initiate a counter wagon


Does that make sense?

[profii]

And how does that pic even imply that I know anything about

TW's

role?

The

"Now With Extra Bullets"

joke was referring to how I've been scum in several games where

TW

townread me, and how I've NKed his ass before XD

See infernos post - for everyone not in on the joke it was how to soft a vig 101



Now TW is claiming vig when he could be a potential SK- see how that is paranoia inducing ?

[profii]

Are people even reading my posts?

Didn't get to

profii

today but he's next on my ISO list

give me pagetop please

I get that you think you caught scum here but you don’t need to spam to get the page top to draw attention to yourself.


I find it notable that I asked you to do 1 thing a few pages back - please summarise what made you lynch Elbirn over Skygazer - and you managed to respond to all the unimportant parts of my last few posts except the bit I’m really interested in

That is [one of] the scum tell you caught me on in that other game, I’m sure you remember... I really want to vote & flip Elbirn to prove a point but that also seems stupid

[profii]

L-1 I believe

[profii]

Confirming it is L-1, please state intent to hammer and do not hammer until we have

SEVERAL

people caught up

I find it notable that I asked you to do 1 thing a few pages back - please summarise what made you lynch Elbirn over Skygazer - and you managed to respond to all the unimportant parts of my last few posts except the bit I’m really interested in

That is [one of] the scum tell you caught me on in that other game, I’m sure you remember... I really want to vote & flip Elbirn to prove a point but that also seems stupid

What post was this question in?

Why Elbirn Is My Push For A Lynch Today

1)

If you read my assessment in depth, you'd see there were simply more reasons for me to think

Elbirn

was scum over

Sky

based off play, and not solely dictated off associative.

2) Elbirn

has not been nearly as engaged or active as

Sky

.

3) Elbirn

has actively posted with a motive I can only see as someone who's trying to either cast uncertainty on players, or push for a lynch agenda that doesn't align with solving the game. Take the

xyzzy

push for example.

4)

Has had really ill interactions with

Flub

prior to his lynch and has been very dismissive of his posts who flipped town, alongside

Inferno's

, who I feel is very likely town.

5)

He's more keen on deflecting scumreads than

Sky

in a sense, he questions people a lot on the townreads on him, but he doesn't make assertions on how that's AI to another person. It feels strongly like he doesn't believe he's town or is trying to defend for its existence when his alignment is brought up.

6) Elbirn

hasn't provided much of any content, and it can be argued

Sky

has generally done more.

7)

Probably my weakest reason, but to a degree,

Elbirn

is a better lynch because other people feel he's very likely scum as opposed to potentially

Sky

.

I just feel

Elbirn's

a better lynch for the gamestate, acquiring flip info., and probability of actually being scum. I can go in depth and link posts of his and mine that support why I want this lynch now if you need me to.

But if I could, then

Elbirn-Sky

would both eat rope today.

1860 - in a sentence... etc etc


I’ll look over this at work assuming a hammer doesn’t come along

To be fair looks legit enough, I just want to look carefully at if some of that is actually AI - eg activity - are we playing lynch all lurkers here? Etc

My gut is telling me that this wagon is too easy, however we’ve just had the first bottler in TW there and I don’t think we need to be patronised with the big font and L-1 warning- if you are so assured in your case then why are you so bothered about a lol hammer


In fact I’m going to put that to the test -

VOTE: Elbirn

That’s L-1 again, let’s have an intent if someone wants it but don’t lol hammer, there is obviously a plethora of PR in this game so it may be foolish

[profii]

interesting

[profii]

okay i'd like to lynch profii tomorrow regardless of the elbirn flip

I feel the same way but more so if Eibirn flips town, soz

[profii]

My gut is telling me that this wagon is too easy, however we’ve just had the first bottler in TW there and I don’t think we need to be patronised with the big font and L-1 warning- if you are so assured in your case then why are you so bothered about a lol hammer

Because multiple people still need to post, and the fact that this wagon has had no resistance is what makes me want people to post more.

Just because I strongly scumread and am hardpushing for that lynch on

Elbirn

doesn't mean everything else is thrown out of the window to me

Why do you care about people being caught up if you caught scum?

On a scale of 1-10 how confident are you in eibirn flipping red?

If you are near the top of that scale removing scum is much more important than people being caught up

I think it’s good that we have seen people remove themselves from the wagon at this critical point- especially with the question mark over the fruit vendors so handy to have Rask in there anyway

[profii]

Sure it applies to you and TW i won’t hide away from that

There is no reason to not lynch scum if you’re confident in scum.

Taly has made massive cases and everyone on the wagon has pretty much concurred easily. Eib has also disappeared which, whilst activity is often called NAI - caught scum do this so I’m going to call it

The worst consequence of rushing a likely scum lynch? The people fallen behind get a nice couple of flips and action summary at the start of day3 - boo boo!

[profii]

And here comes a CW


I’ve caused exactly what I wanted to prevent


Told you the Elbirn wagon formed too easily

[profii]

profii

can you walk me through your thinking on your

Elbirn to L-1

vote?

Because your posts heavily imply that you haven't read my ISO assessments in depth.

Yet you seem completely fine with the

Elbirn

under the pretense of what

I

have to say about it.

Somethzing fishy is going on with the wagon. It’s weird that no one else gets a look in by the time a player gets that close to L-1

Bearing in mind your slot was heavily scum read then replaced out and you are the main wagon driver - I have paranoia

Then day 2 a LOT of PRs seem to be knocking about scum probably don’t know where they can push safely or not

So maybe Elbirn is scared scum who has just gone awol since their kill failed and they lost a dude and a load of PRs surfaced - though they did lose a PR so I guess they have some too

So your case fits, tbh it’s borderline insulting and misrepresentative to say I’ve not read your case - tell me why, if we are reading exactly the same words you are expecting me to come to different conclusions? I feel like you are shading me a bit unfairly there


Anyway - it’s a bit of a tricky spot, I think I’ve said before in games I get that feeling in poker where you just call the bet to see what the other dude is holding - so basically feels like a info lynch with a decent chance of hitting scum, failing it hitting scum, I’d guess you look pretty bad for driving it so maybe TW can shoot you in the night which is kinda a worthy trade



My sort of feeling on day 2 is not a great deal has happened because this wagon nearly clicked so fast, therefore our main events are all the PR reveals and then a little CW on me. I guess that makes Elbirn more likely scum if they don’t want to be on that bus

Also you get more excited about l-1 than me

[profii]

I’ll look over this at work assuming a hammer doesn’t come along

To be fair looks legit enough, I just want to look carefully at if some of that is actually AI - eg activity - are we playing lynch all lurkers here? Etc

I mean the implication, if I'm reading right, and I think I am, is you haven't yet read the case at this point.
Is this right? Did you skim?
If you aren't sure about the case, and you aren't sure about the wagonomics or how fast it formed and no CW and such, then what made you comfortable or give you confidence in elbirnscum to begin with
Because you say like you want the lynch fairly quick too and no CW either

I'm not trying to make you look bad or "get you", I really have trouble understanding any of this thought process
please clarify if you can

I don’t think given the player list that scum are going to lol hammer especially given the amount of big font Taly keeps using

So I don’t think L-1 is that big a deal to begin with, maybe if someone said intent sure but the reaction was a CW on me

If we don’t legit push the wagon then people are just going to assume it’s not doing anything - people get scared and do stuff at l-1

Also there is a great chance of scum in {Elbirn, Taly} so let’s poke in there

[profii]

Taly if you want someone that's not even trying to gamesolve then just look at the above profii post.

How is saying let’s find the scum in {Taly / Elbirn} not game solving - that gets us 2 scum out the game, let’s hypothetically say TW does us the favour tonight we would have 12 players to find the rest

Given the amount of PR floating around, tomorrow becomes easier and clearer. Do we need to sort every slot rn?

[profii]

I will get the questions but not got time at work these days so probably 14 hours time after footy tonight

[profii]

Even if TW is a SK, Lynching third parties at the moment does not excite me. Group scum first, then if the game is going, third parties. Let scum take care of TW, because so far if he is a SK, he's shown a wanting to shoot in scum.

So I think we should stop focusing so much on the TW thing (not a comment of MOI's assessment...just happens to follow it). Anyone going hard after TW I will take as a scum claim.

I have a bit of time so I was just going back to look for my questions I need to answer and spotted this which I would like to comment on as I do believe TW is a SK.

Whilst the scum have only lost 1 player, they can easily asses if TW is near or far from shooting them up.

If TW is way wrong, they can let him help them whittle down the town and almost utilise his NK for their win con.
If he is right, he dies pretty soon as he is a scum risk.

personally, I think we shouldn't rely on scum killing him, but we should lynch him to reduce the amount of people dying at night, thus increase the amount of people we get the chance to lynch during the day. This gives us more PR results as time goes on and more informed choices, potentially enabling us to PoE our way to victory once a couple of people get confirmed. Bearing in mind there was no scum kill so we likely have a doctor somewhere - if TW shoots there by accident then, that's just silly.

my 2 cents.


whilst I am in favour of removing someone who is a threat to town and has a different win con to me, if town want to try and leash Tw, then I've no intention of forcing a TW lynch down everyones throats, but I will say I told you so when it goes wrong.

[profii]

I'm roughly at Elbirn ?= Profii > Xyzzy > HeWho > Sky in that last grouping

Profii again please talk about your progression 1948
your response doesn't address my actual concerns

How do you think there's scum in taly/elbirn and don't feel like straightening it out but just eeeeeeh lets lynch elbirn and if town I guess sus taly
I really want to know how you're comfortable going along with taly as so whilst scumreading him

I mainly think there is scum in Taly or Taly is very wrong somehow, but I think Taly isn't that wrong by accident as he is a good player - he has scum caught more before.

I think Talys slot was scummed up by dave and I think Taly is driving an Elbirn mislynch and whilst he has presented a coherent case on Elbirn, my concern is as part of that case he said Sky/Elbirn could be scum, but hey lets go with Elbirn and I'm not really super clear on what made Elbirn > Sky. Then when I ask on a scale of 1-10 Taly doesn't say oh yeah Elbirn is scum - I think Taly is posturing on an inevitable Sky Scum flip by picking on Elbirn's flubber vote and lack of good play on day 1 (sorry elbirn )

I reckon {Sky Taly} scum and elbirn town

seeing as my vote is on elbirn and MoI has voted Sky, seems a sensible time to see if we can get that wagon going

VOTE: Sky

would still prefer taly but meh - the other weird thing is people are now thinking I am scum linked to elbirn - I voted and people retreated, sure I could be bussing as the wagon nearly gets over the line, but then, why not just hammer if me and Elbirn are scum mates? That link doesn't make sense, people should say either I am scum OR elbirn is scum OR Taly is scum, it doesn't make sense that there is 2 scum in the pool of players here. However, the Sky link does make sense to Taly as he postured that read along with Elbirns I think.

I'm sort of glad I am a CW to elbirn as it takes some heat off what I really think is a town slot, if it had gone through, then I think it proved my point on Taly which is sort of a means to an end in catching scum-taly.

I think I get scum read for playing the probabilities like this and people start saying my play isn't "optimal" in a buzz wordy way, but I have my methods and they work for me so I'll be sound when Taly flips scum

[profii]

yeah paranoia lynch a vig.



nice one scum boy

pedit: SK is awful honestly

honestly

[profii]

I'll read talys wall later - I never know what he wants when he says state your read progression - I either don't know what that means or I play the game differently because I've said what I want to say already.

but Chickadee - why do you want 2x night kills in the game? How can you trust TW to be leashed? it's not like we can say 'we want you to kill x' as we don't know what PR interference there will be.

[profii]

I've flicked through that wall, Taly you are like the anti-chill

i'll answer later though.

[profii]

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

actually I was pondering this and I've had to come back as this suuuuuper bugs me.

the whole game you've been relatively quiet, even saying yourself your reads are weak and so on.
then you say "whoever says lynching a SK is scum"
which I did notice before advocating* for the SK lynch but I don't really care if people scum read me for it so I just carried on.
so then you are now obviously scum reading me

you've gone from having no direction to essentially manufacturing a reason to vote me. bizarre.

*advocating - I refute that - I stated there is a logic to lessening the blow of double night kills. If people aren't on board with that, I said I _wont_ push a TW lynch, but I believe it is logical pro town thing to do.

[profii]

Profii you can stop scum claiming. We caught you. Why on earth advocate for a TW lynch? It doesn’t make any sense. Even if TW is a serial killer, group scum dies first. I think you know a lynch on him isn’t going through so you’re trying to look town by pointing fingers at potential scum. And that point is backed up by your immediate vote on sky, right after advocating killing TW.


VOTE: profii

actually I was pondering this and I've had to come back as this suuuuuper bugs me.

the whole game you've been relatively quiet, even saying yourself your reads are weak and so on.
then you say "whoever says lynching a SK is scum"
which I did notice before advocating* for the SK lynch but I don't really care if people scum read me for it so I just carried on.
so then you are now obviously scum reading me

you've gone from having no direction to essentially manufacturing a reason to vote me. bizarre.

*advocating - I refute that - I stated there is a logic to lessening the blow of double night kills. If people aren't on board with that, I said I _wont_ push a TW lynch, but I believe it is logical pro town thing to do.

Third party hunting over group scum hunting is not the logical pro town thing to do.

And so what if I’m jumping in with a scum read on you. Yes I’ve been largely absent. But now that I’m getting active with something, you’re going to complain? And you’re going to sit there and talk about logical protown moves?

I’m observing the following

“I’m not really in this game my reads are weak”
“Still have no reads but anyone who says lynch SK is scum”

*profii: TW is SK, it’s worth lynching*

“I’ve magically found scum guys”


That is _totally_ manufactured

Also if I was really scum, why would I say that knowing you would start pushing for me in the middle of my biggest scrutiny period thus far


I’m not complaining - I just find that a really really weak way to get on my wagon

[profii]

Profii responded to Chickadee but it doesn't appear that they responded to you. (?)

I wanted to challenge chickadee because she made no effort to think about

“Removing SK means less night kills, means more town elected lynched”

Instead, just creating a reason to get on a wagon to get herself in a safe place today:

“Voting profii because he is SK hunting, I can say that because it’s site meta I don’t need to think any further”



It’s massively massively bad


Anything else I’ll do on a computer later but that just super stood out for me so phone posted

[profii]

Why would she put herself forward to be lynched ? I haven’t thought that through

Where is the shade? To me here is what happened

I said, if we remove a SK, there are less night kills therefore more lynches
HWS said, that is a valid point
Chickadee said omg no that’s scum


I have seen on numerous occasions people say someone is scum because they are SK hunting. Imo that’s poop, we are prolonging the overalll town life- also imo, chickadee is using this site meta to create a reason to vote me. Usually scum have a hard time to get on wagons so it could be that, but I’ve not thought it through

I don’t know why people aren’t understanding that but less night kills is a possible pro town option. Anyone who denies that is up to something. There is a difference between not wanting to do it and outright denying it

I’ll put you calling it shade down to not fully understanding what I’m saying, but if you continue I’ll move you into “up to something”

[profii]

I’m saying the vote is bad and illogical - have i said I’m scum reading Chickadee?
I don’t know what line of reasoning I’m asking you to give up - I’m asking people to acknowledge that if we remove a SK there are less kills and more lynches and that’s why I said TW is an option

However I also acknowledge that people might not want to do that- they might think that TW is legit a vig, they might think SK!TW might be leash-able

But to say SK hunting is guaranteed scum is ridiculous

[profii]

Day off today - full catchup incoming post chores and a little bit of work

[profii]

Every time I check this game I see walls from Taly and I keep saying to myself I’ll get my laptop and respond to every little bit but I’d only be doing it to appease him so I really can’t be hooped

If you have specific questions that can be posted without a wall of quotes I’ll deal with them but in the mean time why don’t you just lynch me and get TW to shoot a50 (Elbirn, right?) after I flip town to prove his town credentials - or do the lynch / kill vice versa

That then frees up our PRs to sort the likes of xyzzy


Seems optimal way to move the game on

[profii]

....Please do not ask to be lynched to prove you're town....

Here's a concise version of my scumread over you Profii that I elaborated on in some of my falls

1)

You kept your vote on

Flub

up a lot in D1, and kept saying you'd vote and lynch

Dram

specifically, but you didn't throw a vote that way and your vote on

xyzzy

was opportunistic because a portion of the vote there was because of it being a wagon with momentum. Why didn't you deeply evaluate

Dram

when he was worthy of a read to you?

2)

There is several issues I take with your stance on

A50

and my specific vote on his wagon.

-

You had issue with me wanting to see more conversation happening prior to a lynch given the wagon progression and gamestate, but you voted

Elbirn

to L-1 here.

-

A lot of your reasons for your stance on my thoughts over the wagon, ones I responded in my earlier walls, are ones that can easily be alleviated if you actually asked questions and tried to figure my stance out in depth. A lot of your assessments about me are untrue, in terms of my vote, thought process, and your incomplete perception of how I work as town or scum.

-

There's plenty of other people on the wagon that you didn't read into, I gave a FULL case to push progression on that wagon and outlined my ideas, but your assertion on my alignment based off my specific stance to

Elbirn

doesn't sit right with me when you haven't looked at the full picture.

-

I'm seriously confused with your

Elbirn/Me/Sky

reads. You L-1'd

Elbirn

, and started townreading him (?), and then you started making realities of me being town OR scum, and that

Sky

would be scum WITH me.

3)

You not being responsive hasn't helped this. I can understand if it's for life reasons, but it's not helping me change the direction of my read if I'm so obviously wrong.

Qs

What is your read/thoughts

A50

upon his entrance?
Reads on

xyzzy, Sky, HWS

?

Busy week.

Don’t tell me how to play - I can ask to be lynched if I want. Pro-town reasons:

-if you remove {Profii - a50} from the game you get the flips and you force the entire player list to focus on new issues as 95%+ of this game day has focussed on {p/a50} - if anyone is hiding in the wagon, they can’t just go back to it tomorrow.

- by removing us 2, the plethora of PRs don’t have to be stupid and _prove_ one of us is scum/town - it can be applied to someone like xyzzy who is almost totally null

- also, if TW helps us out by following this plan, it goes some way to showing he can be leashed which is great

So, if I see a plan that will help, I’ll put it forward, just because it involves me dying, doesn’t make it bad. You’ll catch people out because they have to make new reads as opposed to “oh man, we didn’t get profii, let’s get profii” (etc)


Flub/dram stuff - I am pretty confident there is still scum in the mini Rask wagon so really wanted to stick there. I just finished a game where I caught scum in exact the same way so i wanted to stick with something that works. Was kinda town reading TW who was playing his ‘normal’ game as far as I can tell, but to be fair I’d happily lynch any of the remaining players {TW, Sky, xyzzy} for different reasons


Elbirn wagon stuff - I guess I got the wagon-mechanics wrong here. Something is wrong here I think but also, you are putting L-1 on a pedestal, I’m not given the player list so I don’t see that as a big deal, it’s more of a reaction test than putting town at lol-hammer risk

3) yep v busy this week


The reads you want

Xyzzy - I am a bit behind but there is almost no content here, whilst I like the idea of removing the inactives to make lylo etc easier I don’t really wanna PL like that past day 1. However was involved in the Rask wagon so I’d vote here

Sky - I’ll go find quotes and stuff later coz I’m phone posting but I reckon if TW isn’t a SK then Sky is probably scum - I say this because the Rask wagon pings me, it could be the SK mentality of “lynch anyone” from TW or Sky is a bit scummy

HWS - I’m probably behind because nothing as far as I’m up to has stood out as unusual to me so I’m null/towning here. Am I supposed to have a strong read here? (Ie, have I missed something)

[profii]

-if you remove {Profii - a50} from the game you get the flips and you force the entire player list to focus on new issues as 95%+ of this game day has focussed on {p/a50} - if anyone is hiding in the wagon, they can’t just go back to it tomorrow.- by removing us 2, the plethora of PRs don’t have to be stupid and _prove_ one of us is scum/town - it can be applied to someone like xyzzy who is almost totally null- also, if TW helps us out by following this plan, it goes some way to showing he can be leashed which is great

If someone can tell me the downside to this then be my guest but no one has really come at me and told me why that's a bad idea - IMO I am looking at the game as a group of people. Just because my plan is not self serving, doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means I accept I can win from the dead thread. At this point I feel like I've created a bit of a distraction.

Even Taly who has been the main protagonist of my lynch, has only said it's his philosophy not to remove one's self from the game, also hinting I have scum meta (that's kinda cool, I didn't know )

However, in the quote, I think there are 3 tangible benefits for the rest of you there if you lynch & remove me and a50.

however, I concede that the game seems to have moved on from "we are only lynching me or a50 today" so I'll re-evaluate the gamestate soon
I'm surprised HWS has appeared in a couple of recent votes but I'll re-read, I'm not fully caught up.

[profii]

We seem to be making a meal of the fruit stuff - if we get 2 claims tomorrow and 2 confirmations, what’s the problem?

If scum try to fake it, a tracker _might_ catch one out _or_ someone in the loop will die and the flip will verify one of the vendors - at which point if scum tried to fake it, then we will catch 2 scum at once

The other risk is scum create a load of innos

[profii]

The scum would still have to guess which of them received fruit, its not like there's just one scum who can say "No one else received fruit, so, it must have been me!"

Didn’t even think of that way haha ignore me

[profii]

profii is still scum right?

I figured I was either getting lynched or you’re shooting me tonight hence why I’ve just ducked out this game more or less

One of the reasons I said kill me isn’t so bad is because I’m just a VT so if it helps the game move from me being the distraction I still say go for it - I’m still calling it now that you are SK even if you do shoot me out the lynch pool for leash cred


See yall in dead thread

[profii]

I figured I was either getting lynched or you’re shooting me tonight hence why I’ve just ducked out this game more or less

you think I'm so stubborn?

your AtE smells but I'd suggest playing the game

I am

[profii]

Did I say vanilla town or just VT?

VOTE: xyzzy

[profii]

Did I say vanilla town or just VT?

VOTE: xyzzy

So, not only have you:

1)

Pushed an understated associative case against

Me/Sky

without engaging with my case on

A50

in depth, AFTER you L-1'd him.

{Most of your first-half D2 ISO}

2)

Kept your vote on

Flub

most of D1 and alternated from him to the

Hit/Xyzzy

wagon despite repeatedly saying you want to vote

Dram

but scumread the people on his wagon.

{Read my ISO where I said xyzzy/profii are UNLIKELY to be scum together}

3)

Avoided a good bit of my questions and thoughts in my walls toward you in favor of saying deflective statements like

"Don't tell me how to play"

when I'm trying to understand your POV. 2406

4)

Proceed to OFFER yourself to be lynched OR use up a Town-Vig's shot if it meant sealing the fate of another person, who you DEFENDED as a townread in your case against me.

{A50}

2477

5)

You L-1'd

xyzzy

the MOMENT you got traction on your wagon, despite you saying you were going to reevaluate

HWS

. 2541

VOTE: profii

I'm done postponing my vote here. I can no longer rationalize how this is town.

I no longer feel good about the

xyzzy

lynch with several people's votes there.

I can still be swayed back onto

HWS

because I'd love to see his flip alongside

profii

.

I still want

MOI

to sell me on

Sky

being the best option today, he and I are the only people that have actually entertained

Sky

-scum in depth this dayphase despite her off-putting D1 performance and vote history... so I'm worried there.

Did I go on the hit vote? I thought he is town pretty much the whole way - I said I thought it was boon which, soft or messing is his thing which was the general exception from everyone else

[profii]

5 made me lol if that helps

[profii]

But yea I made a mistake on the Elbirn wagon just like you did there and you have just death tunnelled me since so excuse me for not being overly interested in what you have to say

I’m still happy to die at this point - I’d expect TW to go straight after as well

[profii]

Wait I’ve messed up the replacements

[profii]

5 made me lol if that helps

But yea I made a mistake on the Elbirn wagon just like you did there and you have just death tunnelled me since so excuse me for not being overly interested in what you have to say

I’m still happy to die at this point - I’d expect TW to go straight after as well

Posts like these keep me from second-guessing my scumread on you.

You deem me as death-tunneling when I've only just now pushed you specifically. I don't have a problem at all with you responding, that's what I WANT to happen so I can sort you better.

You saying that you're happy to die ONLY if it means

TW

- a likely town role, if not, a non-scum role - dies as well, is the exact opposite of what I've said is helpful for Town right now.

And yeah, I admit I messed up with names in the previous post. But why are you drawing a connection between us if I'm so wrong about you being scum? I still don't fully understand your read on

A50

, even now. You townread them, but you put them up as a lynch option next yourself without contest, after you already pushed me for formulating a case on

Elbirn

, the person originally in his slot.

Honestly

profii

, if you're really town, can we actually discuss reads and the gamestate?

Why is

xyzzy

a good lynch to you?

The bit about TW -

I think if TW dies, less night kills, means more day lynches - means the kills are more considered. Even if we give TW a pool _and_ he decides to stick within it, I still think he will serve his own agenda

Whereas you think whittling down the pack is better - this is exactly how I play as scum, I played a game with a SK and I wanted them alive as long as poss to help us get to lylo quickly


I don’t know how you get to your side of the debate being pro town and you’ll never convince me. I’m guessing I’ll never convince you either so I’m not spending any more time there but it’s fairly easy to wrap that up

[profii]

Idk a50 is still a slot I just want to flip to learn how to read more than because of a read

You made some good points when his wagon was at its max but I don’t trust you

Also I don’t know a50 but he actively said he didn’t read the thread bar flips (that might be his thing) and he hasn’t done toooo much to find scum- his biggest contribution was the quote of known meta- seems like someone who is very conscious of how others perceive him

So whilst I don’t trust you and I’m suspicious of the wagon, it also seems like a good wagon at the same time so maybe I’m just paranoid.

[profii]

@profii regarding throwing shade at my abilities as a killing role:
refer post 0
report back

Not really I’m just saying democratically killing is better

That isn’t saying you are bad, just not as good as a vote

But talking of throwing shade...

[profii]

Profii
Profii
Profii
Profii
Profii
Profii





Flip this



No one is invested in this day phase. Let’s do something.

i love it when you say my name

Sorry

Yes flip me and move on please

[profii]

I do it as eitheir alignment to try and get what I want

Ps lynch me

[profii]

I'm with Rask a bit, it might just be I'm not familiar enough to say Xyzzy did a town after that faux-lynch. There is something that irks me about how that whole thing transpired which I might check with Pine...

I've read HWS and Elbirn/a50 and see where they come from I guess I kinda just don't trust Taly because he was gunning for me.

I'd push to lynch either xyzzy or sky today.

[profii]

Seriously? Xyzzy was, as far as everyone knew, lynched, and said that they were town in what was supposed to be twilight. Like unless xyzzy has a history of twilight trolling or knew they weren't actually lynched (not really possible since Pine hadn't gotten online to resolve the whole thing until afterwards) then I don't see how xyzzy can still be scum to some people. There has to be some frustrated scum in the group that's doubling down on this and trying to push the lynch through anyways. By that I mean A50 and profii

What if it was xyzzy (or any scum partner) who raised the dispute knowing they could get out of the lynch?

Scum would be the sort to track how close to lynch they are and find a way to get out of it.

Also, if one had the intent of raising a dispute, at the time we all believed it was a lynch, xyzzy/partners would know there was perhaps some get out of jail potential in the mix up, so wouldn't need to lay the "you got me" card down just yet.

[profii]

Resolving an issue. Stand by. This will not disrupt deadline.

I thought this post said dispute, it actually said 'issue'

still issue means problem.

my post still stands.

[profii]

I'm pretty sure Pine has already stated his policy on replace outs

if you look carefully at the ISO, you can see that HitAlts vote moved into nursing the beer denoted by ((HitAlt))

so you can say Pine applied his policy consistently

However, he only stated his policy specifically after the afore-quoted issue was resolved, not before - but the eagled eyed among us (certainly not me) might say, "well history did repeat itself if you look carefully at how HitAlt was dealt with"

however, no one at the time went "hang on guys, we haven't made a lynch due to the HitAlt policy" so I dont think it's fair to say the events around the issue were clear... Therefore I'm surmising perhaps scum were on to it and raised the issue to get themselves out of a hole with that lynch.

now given you've just seem to have insinuated that the policy was out there and it wasn't, it comes over as TMI so I'm going to push for you and settle with xyzzy today.

VOTE: SkyGazer

[profii]

eagled eyed among us (certainly not me)

[profii]

profii by your logic, if there did happen to be no policy listed, why would scum even think about trying to dispute it?? Like they can't dispute something on a policy that you thought didn't publicly exist so it wouldn't make sense for you to vote for xyzzy in that case.

I'm saying I didn't really notice votes getting removed in swaps, but it did happen

so the crux of the point is, not just me, but apparently everyone at the time of what we thought was a lynch was going "hang on guys..."

so I'm theorising that someone in the scum PT went "hang on Pine, before you flip our bud...."

Or........ kudos to Pine and he just spotted it on his own, as per my first point - no one in the game thread queried it. But it's pro-scum to try and get someone out of a lynch.


I guess thinking about it, the natural process for Pine is to go through each vote and check its where we think it is, as soon as you see Andrius in the count you'd just remove it.

idk. I could be wrong, was just a theory given _no one_ noticed.

[profii]

profii by your logic, if there did happen to be no policy listed, why would scum even think about trying to dispute it?? Like they can't dispute something on a policy that you thought didn't publicly exist so it wouldn't make sense for you to vote for xyzzy in that case.

I'm saying I didn't really notice votes getting removed in swaps, but it did happen

so the crux of the point is, not just me, but apparently

no one

at the time of what we thought was a lynch was going "hang on guys..."

so I'm theorising that someone in the scum PT went "hang on Pine, before you flip our bud...."

Or........ kudos to Pine and he just spotted it on his own, as per my first point - no one in the game thread queried it. But it's pro-scum to try and get someone out of a lynch.


I guess thinking about it, the natural process for Pine is to go through each vote and check its where we think it is, as soon as you see Andrius in the count you'd just remove it.

idk. I could be wrong, was just a theory given _no one_ noticed.

ebwop

[profii]

first quote I have no idea I'd have to go look at what rask did and im not doing that at work rn
2nd quote what's abysmal about it?

[profii]

Me please

[profii]

Is A50 playing the game or lurking?

I'm lurking. Vote me.

that's my line

[profii]

Multiball makes sense to me

[profii]

weak fruit vendor gives a piece of fruit to scum then dies

that was amusingly effective

[profii]

it's hard enough keeping a track of the deadline in the game let alone anything else.

I think we should push xyzzy to L-1 - get the claim and go from there to the next target (me please)

VOTE: xyzzy

[profii]

no

we will get l-1
we will get a claim

that is how the game works

then

he will either vanilla town claim and we will lynch

or

if he does PR claim, everyone will panic and want to change, or at leasttttttt, discuss if it's a fake claim, then if it's fake do we move, but omg we are so close to deadline

etc

so

lets expidite the first bit, to reduce the impact of a claim that causes us to panic right next to deadline.

[profii]

^^^ ta da.

now we have like a whole day to think about our lynch pool rather than say 3 hours assuming xyzzy comes in fairly soon...

[profii]

What. I went off Chickodees l-3

[profii]

Which slot is nos?

[profii]

Surely it makes me and chicka scum because “we” fabricated a lol hammer

I’ll need to read up on how chicka is cleared but I’ll just wait til after the flips - another round of PRs etc might make it all easier tomorrow anyway

[profii]

VOTE: xyzzy

That's L-3

I'm not mentally in this game at the moment. There was a time today when I was, and now we're dragging. We've over talked everything today. Someone jus

Accidentally hit submit. Oops.

Someone just push something through. We all know the lynch pool.

These 2 posts don’t make me confident that xyzzy is scum

I went off that l-3 and wanted to get a claim as per my follow up to the +1 vote - I assumed I was L-2

I don’t know how chicka made the mistake but the post straight after “just push something through” Makes me think we’ve mislynched

This day has gone on so long I’ve lost track of exactly what cleared Chicka but Idk if anyone wants to clear that up know but I’ll wait for tomorrow

[profii]

actually scum roleblocker death and lack of kill amongst the fruit vendors means there's almost certainly scum in the investigatives. if someone doc'd myself or Ausuka last night........ my gut says they should claim? But I don't fully trust my gut here. someone smarter and less intoxicated weigh in.

(also now going quiet until further notice)

pedit: want me to claim my degree of fruitedness?

In what appears to be 2 nights of success from whoever is protecting us, our potential serial killer wants to out the doctor


So I still want to be lynched - lynch me

[profii]

Why is one fruit vendor every night and the other one odd night :@

[profii]

On the balance of probability

VOTE: MoI

Either
The 2 vendors are opposite teams, given the lack of scum kill and protect seemingly on Ausuka? Then we can flip MoI - I’m going that way on the basis I thought HitAlt was boon day 1, got protected and again no scum kill... so presuming we have loud doc.

My gut is telling me something really fishy about TW but I’m acknowledging this game won’t be in the profii hall of fame for awesome performances so I’ll try and keep it undistracting and within the lynchpool - I don’t like the super fast claim and the apparent super awesome doctor. 2 saves seems unlikely so I wonder if SK!TW has just claimed the scum kill as a50 was in the lynchpool and he saw a chance to buy himself credibility

[profii]

Oh and the other fishy thing that’s making me consider things is that Ausuka targeted he person who initially suggested quite early on that the 2 vendors can be loyal/disloyal - opposite sides

No ones called that out and no ones callled out the random difference in xshot modifiers so idk, seems off

1685

[profii]

There’s potential collusion

[profii]

I agree I think someone else said that and no one challenged it

[profii]

Actually I think the confusion was hit alt said he had 2 results and someone else said he can hear all kills - then it perpetuates


I imagine HitAlt had 1 result - his PR, 2nd result - loud protective, then someone got confused

(Off top of my head without checking so it’ll be something. Like that)

[profii]

I'm home!

What do I need to do w/ like, casing MOI? A lot of people seem to already be there and people aren't really defending him anymore? but at the same time the lynch doesn't appear to have much momentum. I'm willing to and able to make a case if that's something I have to do to get the lynch through.

Sit and wait to see how the counterwagon comes about maybe?

[profii]

Is anyone familiar enough with action resolution?

Lynch *someone*
Let MoI fruit
Shoot MoI

?

Probably far too much trust of MoI and TW in that tbh

[profii]

Remind why Inferno was saying he was mechanically town or whatever it was

[profii]

Profii can you outline to me why you actually never voted for Dram?

This game is dead, let's change that

I really wanted to go on that wagon that I was keen on day 1. And as such, given all the others are now dead (I think) if we somehow move away from MoI today, I hope we go back on Sky as there must have been scum in that move and Skys the only one left now. (...I think)

[profii]

VOTE: Magna

Was scumreading A50, still voted xyzzy.

how do you think the scum decided on A50 as a kill?

If they are scum reading A50, by removing them ,they force themselves to justify new reasons for lynching whoever they pick... that surely makes the game harder for them?

[profii]

VOTE: Magna

Was scumreading A50, still voted xyzzy.

how do you think the scum decided on A50 as a kill?

If they are scum reading A50, by removing them ,they force themselves to justify new reasons for lynching whoever they pick... that surely makes the game harder for them?

Are you even reading the game

apparently not


anyway


I didn't think I was defending MoI? Ironically my vote is there because of the lack of scum kill

I still think TW is SK but I'll not push that because the group doesn't want to hear it (ps lynch me please)

so, given lack of 2 kills and the FV claim are basically cops, surely scum targeted Ausuka, there is probability that the 2x FV's are town/scum, so let's kill one and just get a load of proper innos.

[profii]

I suppose you are right it didn’t answer the question. Idk I thought the other wagon might have made it over the line

I tried to work out if it’s auto win but I think TW SK so I was factoring in 1/2 NKs then also this super doctor and gave up

[profii]

We are talking about day 1 where the 2 end of day wagons were HitAlt and Flubber

I’ve said I wanted to vote at the rask wagoners, town went with flubber, who although didn’t vote - did posture, hence my vote

I also said I thought HitAlt was Boon, so random role allusions in the manner in which HitAlt was doing it, seemed towny so I wasn’t voting there


I then was on the xyzzy lynch, again in the Rask wagon

I’ve also said a few times I’d Lynch Sky but the wagon has never quite made it, but given where we are, I bet sky is the scum in the Rask deal.


Anyway. To specifically address your query, whilst dram seemed (well was) scummy, I felt more confident in the Rask thing so I stuck there. It never came down to something like Dram vs HitAlt where I would have easily gone Dram

[profii]

jingle scares me so much and I kinda agree he smells like town here ;n;

VOTE: profii
/in

Careful

[profii]

Clues are there

[profii]

Did I say vanilla town or just VT?

VOTE: xyzzy

Me please

jingle scares me so much and I kinda agree he smells like town here ;n;

VOTE: profii
/in

Careful

Clues are there

[profii]

Lynch me and I’m killing TW. He’s a SK

[profii]

Well he is going to claim vig for so long... it’s up to you- I’ll take someone anti town win con with me... if you think he’s a vig then just lynch someone else and tell him to kill me for “thinning out scum pool” cred

But if you lose to a SK later then I will just come back later and say I told you so

I don’t mind either way

[profii]

Lynch me and I’m killing TW. He’s a SK

I would point out that regardless of that he is actively helping the town by thinning out the scumpool but I think you know that and are using it so that we won't lynch you so

Yeah no you don't hold the game hostage after submitting earlier. You need to die.

I thought I was being fairly obvious that I’d do something in death and I was clear enough I don’t like TW in this game

So I don’t see what holding hostage is about

[profii]

Hmmm

[profii]

Lynch me and I’m killing TW. He’s a SK

I would point out that regardless of that he is actively helping the town by thinning out the scumpool but I think you know that and are using it so that we won't lynch you so

Yeah no you don't hold the game hostage after submitting earlier. You need to die.

I thought I was being fairly obvious that I’d do something in death and I was clear enough I don’t like TW in this game

So I don’t see what holding hostage is about

The fact you seem to be giving ultimatums

I still don’t see how I’m holding anyone hostage- you want me dead and I want TW dead. We both win here

[profii]

Wow

[profii]

I’m kinda expecting the 2 vengeful to explain the lack of night kills- someone’s surely going to flip bullet proof

[profii]

Chickadee probably won’t remind anyone I found her scummy after my flip so I’ll just leave that here for tomorrow....

[profii]

Is that a hammer yet

[profii]

I’ll be shooting TW please...

[profii]

Ur dead m8 >:{

Unless you’re bullet proof eh

[profii]

I’ve been called scum enough in this game I’ll prove my own point
I think you are too late according to Sky so bye bye TW

[profii]

Don’t worry about the vig shot

[profii]

‘Vig’ shot eh

[profii]

Called TW the SK on day 2

I still think it’s amazing that no one queries TWs xshot vig when people keep dying

Alright the town plan worked “we will kill all the scum and then lynch TW if we don’t win” BUT - I think I was the only scum lynched (I suck as scum)

Alright TW was kinda leashed but there was an element of good fortune in the skygazer mistake shot


Saying that - town had scum on the ropes quite quickly so well deserved




Also I think it’s worth pointing out Inferno did great for stepping out - if anyone didn’t see the dead thread he somehow saw some setup specs on someone else’s PC (relative/friend idk - IRL!) but some excellent honesty going on there so high five dude

[profii]

what's in the maf thread anyways

scheming

& schenanigans

[profii]

actually gonna throw down mad respect for the hard anti bus play from {dram, MoI, profii}
(sky already knows I think she's rad)

taking such a strong stance as "we will not lynch a claimed pr and it doesn't matter if he's scum d1" was like.... an insanely ballsy take on a scumbuddy. and staying off the profii wagon given how lynchable he was, with some solid reasoning, was also like a pretty impressive play

I am mad lynch bait yo

[profii]

I think TW is a serial killer

Meh who needs a random votes with reads like that
*brushes shoulder*

[profii]

nah I still stand by everything I said in this game

SK takes away towns choice of lynches and reduce the amount of lynches, reducing town power
scum love an SK because they reduce the amount of lynches to win the game quicker

the whole point that TW didn't want to kill scum!Sky and essentially made town get lucky is proof of that.

anyone who can NK should be removed asap - if a SK is so obvious, reducing the night kills from 2 to 1 is only pro town.