NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Skygazer]

VOTE: inferno

We can't have fires waking the baby now.

[Skygazer]

VOTE: GUSTavo

Strong winds might wake the baby (all the good puns were taken)

VOTE: profii
Can we please please policy lynch for this pun

[Skygazer]

VOTE: profii

I'll get paranoid and tunnel profii eventually let's just get that over with

I hate bad puns

FTFY, thanks for listening to reason

[Skygazer]

Hey there, this is funzo-land. It might have been a bad pun, but let's just workshop a better one, instead of making him Dead tired.

More puns? Et tu, Brute?

[Skygazer]

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

[Skygazer]

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

[Skygazer]

Nah elbirn's self vote and rask's no lynch vote

[Skygazer]

"Look at me I'm so town"

I was just as confused when I first saw it.

[Skygazer]

It's not the no lynch vote itself for me, it's the apparent lack of follow up to it.

[Skygazer]

I don't know, I'd think he'd have more to talk about than one read after all of that discussion

[Skygazer]

Roomie just got back from a 3 week trip in Cali yesterday so we've been doing thangs, I'll catch up here after my rehearsal today.

[Skygazer]

That's a lot to take in. Some thoughts:

Reevaluated my read on Rask, I think my logic was flawed as people have pointed out.
UNVOTE:

Getting townvibes from brass and elbirn. Magna's frustration towards spam posters seems genuine and town.

Not sure if Gustavo would act so belligerent if he were scum, wouldn't scum want to avoid drawing that kind of attention?

I need to get to posting so that I'm above that 20 post mark.
I'd hate to be under any scrutiny.

This pings me slightly, unless this was just a joke?

Still trying to internalize everything that just happened and I haven't really had many chances to interact with people so I feel pretty behind.

[Skygazer]

I think brassherald is town for now.

Were you scumreading brass before? If yes you hadn't really indicated it, and if no, why did you have your rvs vote on him for so long?

[Skygazer]

Sorry, I forgot about that.

[Skygazer]

These generic scum reads on me makes it hard for me to even discus why yall are wrong.

[Skygazer]

In any case I don't see why people are lumping me in with dave and chickadee.

[Skygazer]

Because of the lack of reads I find it likely that someone on my wagon is opportunistic scum. I'm phone posting so I'll reread that when I get inside.

[Skygazer]

*lack of reasons not lack of reads

[Skygazer]

@brass: Which post of mine is the one with substance in your opinion? I can't tell looking at my iso.

[Skygazer]

I see a few posts that qualify as substance.

[Skygazer]

464 and the fact that you are asking me which I think has substance instead of trying to point out actual substance or make a post of substance. Well, not winning you any town points, here.

Was trying to get a full understanding of your point first. I see 115, 144 and 147 as having some substance even if it was a bad read. I see 467 containing substance as it's a valid question even though it was already asked and answered. I think me asking you to clarify which post has substance has substance because it gets you to clarify your point.

[Skygazer]

Admittedly I haven't been posting a lot but the 22 pages in four days didn't help with that. Once I got behind it was harder and harder to catch up as the spam posting continued. I also think that just because my posts tend to be shorter doesn't mean that I'm posting fluff, in most of my posts I see me trying to advance the game or develop my reads even if just a tiny bit.

[Skygazer]

Well you can try no

Why are dave and chickadee sscum? you seem to imply they are.

I pointed it out specifically to try and respond, and it's worked so far because I got brass to explain his read.

I wasn't really satisfied to dave's answer in 459 and his response to t_w's question in 471 is also unsatisfying. He doesn't explain why he would be satisfied with that answer, it's just a straight matter-of-fact yes which kind of pings me. It reads like he doesn't even want to clarify his point. Also 85 seems like safe fence-sitting fluff but that's been pointed out and it was so long ago.

I feel like chickadee has less content than me and I've been lurking pretty hard by this point so that's pretty sus but she could also just be in the same situation I've been in.

[Skygazer]

sky- I didn’t like that unvote but I appreciate not everyone has loads of time - I certainly avoid games any bigger than this because I am not sharp enough to keep up properly so I’d like to say to sky please provide 3 scum reads and why

Three top scumreads for the moment, in order:
dave's slot, as I've already discussed
Ausuka for sheeping/hopping onto wagons, lack of reads, lack of reasonings, etc. I said earlier that I think there's at least one opportunistic scum on my wagon and I think this is the most likely option in regards to that.
Flubber, I don't like how he jumped on chickadee for "PT-slipping" when it's clearly stated in the rules, and there's the whole "coasting" post that Magna pointed out

I lost my grasp on the chickadee scumread after rereading her and seeing more content than I remembered and I like her most recent interaction/vote on flubber.

Skygazer, can you point to any specific Elbirn posts that have you town reading him?

22, 75, 77 and 79 feel like he's genuinely trying to create content early on. I don't really get how people are scumreading these for being pushy when the pushiness was useful in helping us get out of rvs. 125 doesn't have game content but I'm reading it as relaxed/carefree which is a towntell imo. I also like 507.

[Skygazer]

Strong townreads so far in order: brass, MoI, Andrius, and elbirn

brass has lots of good content which imo definitely outweighs the fluff, and I like the fact that he's genuinely trying to keep his fluff posting down now
MoI continues to post good content and I like their reads for the most part
I like Andrius's 570 and like I stated earlier I don't see gus's behavior coming from scum
I talked about elbirn in my last post

[Skygazer]

Skygazer, what do you like about my big catchup post? Because you said you liked the post but there's alot there and seems like a big blanket over alot of junk.

I really like the stream of conscious catch-up in the beginning of that post, it seems natural, it feels like you're putting quite a bit of your thoughts out there right off the bat which reads as town to me. I'm also liking that you're asking some good preliminary questions to get a feel for other players' outlook on the game, and putting all of your reads so far right out there on the table. The post seems pretty transparent with regards to your thoughts which imo indicates town.

[Skygazer]

Taly, how did you go from townreading brass to not being able to think of a post you like from him in 688? What were you seeing from him that was town early on that you don't like anymore?

Waiting to see flubber respond to outstanding questions from others before I place my vote.

HitAlt is both scummy and egoistical if they're gonna just call portions of the game and assume people will listen to them. mfw

Agreed

[Skygazer]

Yeah, I'll add pressure to hit while waiting for flubber to catch up on questions. I mean, how could I say no to a crusade?

VOTE: HitAlt

[Skygazer]

I don't want to see him at L-1 before he responds to those outstanding questions.

[Skygazer]

He also has plenty of pressure on him compared to HitAlt.

[Skygazer]

Could've sworn flubber was at L-2. Maybe that was before the corrections? Maybe I'm blind? Could be both.

[Skygazer]

@HitAlt I've done some thinking. So my understanding of the honeypot is:

It gives you reason to vote for someone (me) who you described as potential lynchbait. By calling it a honeypot it seems like you're trying to preemptively distance yourself from any criticisms of voting for lynchbait. If I were to be lynched and flip town then you say (in 654) that you have three early wagoners (brass, t_w and ausuka) to examine after the honeypot. The thing is, if you're scum, you could easily tell your partners to not vote for me after your initial vote and catch some more potential mislynches for later through your "honeypot." This whole thing seems like a really convenient way for you to line up multiple mislynches through easily fakeable VCA's later in the game.

[Skygazer]

I... What?

843: you've literally put no pressure on me, just stated over and over again that I'm scummy with no reasoning, and that's your "interrogation lamp?" And now I'm "flailing?" Like what even is this post?

847 reads super defensive and flaily and you're still literally saying nothing of importance in your defence, just talking about how there's "no reason for a scumagenda" and how you're not scum etc etc

[Skygazer]

It seems like you're under the impression that if you just say things over and over (sky is scummy because she's scummy, I'm not scum because I'm not) that it'll somehow rally people behind you.

[Skygazer]

HitAlt. Awe man. In a bubble, they need to be lynched. But then I look at the context around their wagon and get super conflicted. The wagon was fast and unexplained, but that's pretty much par for the course in this game. 100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

There's plenty of explanation from people that are voting for hit.

In regards to 869 flubber just seems to be attacking Taly rather than taking the time to address any of the issues or questions that Taly brought up. Seems super defensive/kind of flaily, do not like.

[Skygazer]

@Skygazer want readlist from you, also response to flubber answers you said you were waiting for

Response to flubber is above.

Readlist

Strong Town

Magna
Andrius
Elbirn
xyzzx
brass

Town Lean

profii
Rask
Inferno
Ausuka - has some good posts, I'm just offput by her tunnelling of me

I Don't Know How To Sort These Players To Be Quite Honest

dram
the_worst
Taly - dave was scummy, Taly has made some good posts since he's been here tho
Chickadee

Scum Lean

HeWhoSwims - I don't like 832 where he has like six different scumreads he's willing to vote for

Strong Scum

flubber
HitAlt

[Skygazer]

Looking at my IDKHTSTPTBQH pile for more possible scum.

I don't really want to wall but I'm willing to clarify individual reads because I know for a fact I haven't interacted with or talked about all of these players.

[Skygazer]

I feel like HitAlt has just been saying the same things over and over at this point, so I'm eager to see their more in depth post that's coming tomorrow.

[Skygazer]

Yeah the post kind of pinged me but I guess that's true considering where we're at. With the exception of two players I don't have the strongest scumreads at the moment either, maybe he's just more willing to lynch his leans.

[Skygazer]

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

This also seems fake to me? Like, tonereading as x alignment is normal. The fact that Sky talked about tonereading it as a quality (defensiveness) and added "a bit" to soften it makes it look faked.

Not sure what you mean about tonereading as a quality? I can say that that wasn't meant to soften anything, more to point out that profii wasn't being full blown defensive, just a bit. In hindsight though it just looks like he was trying to get information out of Gus which is NAI to me.

[Skygazer]

If dram was trying to point out PRs then that's really bad. I'm not seeing why people are assuming he means scum power role? The post is rather unclear in that regard (at least to me).

[Skygazer]

Okay yeah that makes sense, completely missed that.

[Skygazer]

Goin to NYC today. Will try to phonepost at some point in the car or something.

[Skygazer]

Don't like that last series of flubber posts (975 to 978).

HitAlt's 979 is flaily enough for me to keep my current vote for now, though.

[Skygazer]

Flailing in the sense that it reads to me as scum worrying about being lynched soon. You're basically just being rather dismissive, calling people who think you're scummy (in scarequotes) mistaken. The amount of hard pushing you've been doing on me and dram looks really sus when you weren't backing it up with anything up until recently and the points you have against dram just seem kind of hastily thrown together since one of them was a complete misinterpretation of what he meant, which is part of why I find your closed book-ness scummy.

Basically the whole post just reads as "don't lynch me" with a few doses of "you're all wrong."

[Skygazer]

Finally back home! Super drained but for good reasons.

Your two scumreads are the two viable wagons we have today?

Yes. I don't like how either of them have responded to their pressure. Like, at all. In contrast, Gus's response to pressure is what led me to townread his slot.

[Skygazer]

Ehhhhhhh xyzzy has been lurking a ton but I like their earlier posts enough to not like this flashwagon.

Townreading Taly by this point.

[Skygazer]

1086 is a good post. I stand by my statement that a xyzzy flashwagon is a bad idea.

I would prefer a HitAlt/flubber lynch but I'll place a vote on Dram if it prevents a no lynch. Still trying to sort his reaction and HitAlt/flubber are scummier to me but it's a much better lynch than xyzzy or Taly.

[Skygazer]

Elbirn's posts are town af

[Skygazer]

(phoneposting from my parents)

[Skygazer]

I can townread you and not vibe with your reads.

[Skygazer]

u lookin to sheep again? :p

[Skygazer]

Did a quick vote count.

Skygazer is at L-8 (Ausuka </3)
Flubber is at L-7 (tw, MoI)
Dram is at L-7 (Inferno, Taly)
xyzzy is at L-4 (Elbirn, Chickadee, brass, hit, profii)
HitAlt is at L-2 (Andrius, sky, dram, xyzzy, HWS, flubber, rask)

I did not double check and I'm mildly tipsy so I'm not giving any money back guarantees but it's at least close enough for rn

[Skygazer]

If I had to pick the scum on the xyzzy wagon it'd be hit and maybe chickadee, definitely not elbirn.

Wouldn't prime-number be covered under "any modifier restricting to a specific set of nights?"

pedit: ninja'd

[Skygazer]

Wasn't this game advertised as mild role madness? I can see a prime number modifier being used for balance purposes or something.

According to wikipedia, 1 is not prime. I majored in music.

[Skygazer]

Andrius, since (I'm assuming) you're pretty tight with Dram, has any of this changed your read on him?

[Skygazer]

And I’m starting to lean toward Hit being lynchbait
But tbh, Hit’s probably going to give us the most info to work off of at this point

"I would lynch Hit but don't want any responsibility if they flips town"

[Skygazer]

possible new favorite person onsite

do we trust Andrius' read on dram? because Flubz is a rad lynch if we can't get dram. still. anyone who unvoted dram exclusively for the roleclaim should feel mighty silly

I mean Andrius is one of my strongest townreads so I trust him in that regard. I don't really have any idea for how capable he is of reading dram but he seems confident so

[Skygazer]

VOTE: flubber
daddy skygazer is a little hungover today, kids
I think HA's play makes more sense now with the claim. Leaning more towards flubber now.

[Skygazer]

Also tbh flubber looks like demotivated scum at this point

That's L-1 by the way I think maybe

Confirmed, though I'd rather not put together a whole VC on the same page to reflect those two votes.

[Skygazer]

ninja'd

[Skygazer]

okay going back to bed now

[Skygazer]

My roomie force fed me tomato juice and saltines so I'm alive again

[Skygazer]

10 pages before I get the chance to even start reading. That's a tad excessive, guys.

[Skygazer]

sooooooo I'm townreading MoI/Andrius/Ausuka/Rask - how unlikely is it for there to be two loyal fruit vendors? Because I'd really like to keep four strong town reads
I'm actually townreading HitAlt now; really don't like how T_W came off in those interactions; could get behind leashing the SK though
I believe Chickadee's vengeful claim considering the post on D1 stating she'd be a good lynch on D2/D3; don't really see it as a hail mary like MoI said due to that early crumb
I can believe that the xyzzy wagon was a counterwagon; I already said there's likely scum on it before and with HitAlt/Chickadee as townreads now I can see Elbirn as scum
xyzzy still likely town esp if elbirn is scum

I can see HWS as scum through PoE

also yall are posting too much

[Skygazer]

VOTE: Elbirn

[Skygazer]

If I had to pick between Ausuka/MoI I'd actually pick MoI as scum at this point. I don't like how he sussed Chicka after that claim. Also I find it hard to believe scum-Ausuka would cc like that?? Unless it's to get a mislynch on a dangerous town player?? But I don't see Ausuka doing that if they just lost a scum partner and I'm kind of paranoid about MoI after realizing how dangerous of a scum player he apparently is.

Granted town-MoI fruiting Andrius makes sense to me, though

[Skygazer]

@Taly: Your assessment on Elbirn/xyzzy is good hence the parrotting

Your assessment on me not so much but w/e

[Skygazer]

[Skygazer]

graphic design is my passion

[Skygazer]

I feel like my top scumspect right now is HWS. He's doing nothing to sell me as him being town.

In fact, I want to vote there and will right... NoVOTE: HeWhoSwimsw

with everything going on this vote seems kind of weird and weakly-reasoned, there's barely anything about HWS in brass's iso

[Skygazer]

i like wagons, they make me feel less useless

[Skygazer]

To clarify: I have a tendency to sheep my townreads, especially if I agree with their analysis. I did sus brass and MoI for small but not insignificant reasons to kind of poke and prod a little bit, but I don't feel comfy voting for either of them rn. MoI was a massive townread for me on D1 and I'm worried I'm just getting paranoid about him. Brass bussing dram doesn't make much sense so I still continue to townread him but his HWS vote lightly pinged me because he's only talked about his HWS read briefly and I don't get why he thinks that's the best place for his vote atm. I don't really have much to go on with HWS compared to Elbirn who started the xyzzy counterwagon and I've thought that that wagon had scum on it since yesterday so this is where I want my vote.

[Skygazer]

i can try but ngl i work w clipart

also thanks rask

if rask is right about the demotivation then that would also point towards Elbirn and HWS

[Skygazer]

would also say profii but he's v/la

[Skygazer]

Oh shit forgot profii was on the xyzzy wagon

Rereading

[Skygazer]

1799

I didn't wagon xyzzy. Like I did whatever the opposite of that is.

[Skygazer]

Okay yeah after reading up just now I can see profii as scum and profii makes sense as an Elbirn partner too. I can do iso's if anyone wants but here are some general points I've noticed while phoneposting:

He seems hyperfocused on analyzing the Rask wagon and doesn't seem to want to do much scum hunting beyond that. He continuously throws shade at me during D1 but avoids voting (early on possibly to avoid being read as opportunistic after HitAlt pointed out his honey pot and later on probably because my wagon had no momentum anymore). I would argue that myself and flubber (now that he's flipped town) were very safe scumreads to have in this game. He also keeps throwing shade at Gustavo/Taly, another safe scum read to have at that point and possibly a good candidate for a mislynch as well assuming my read on Taly is correct. He throws a tiny bit of shade at dram but never pushes hard and never even comments on the claim either, so that's sus. Then there's his vote on the xyzzy wagon that comes out of nowhere, basically jumping ship from flubber to a different wagon (also a likely mislynch) with little reasoning beyond momentum.

As others have pointed out there's also a ton of information instead of analysis. It's also interesting to note that he really doesn't talk about Elbirn at all or dram until the wagon forms.

[Skygazer]

When Elbirn flips scum we'll have two scum down so I'm fine with being a mislynch after that tbh especially if it keeps me away from lylo situations. After that though, please consider looking at profii.

[Skygazer]

My whole life can be summed up as overconfidence alternating with massive self-doubt so sure

[Skygazer]

I

haven't

heard Town say they'd be

"fine with being a mislynch"

in a game where Town wins.

I

have

heard Scum say they'd be

"fine with being a mislynch"

in a game that Town wins.

So I'm not swayed by

Sky's

recent posting over her alignment.

I will say that 1808 is a good reminder for me to ISO

profii

individually, I'll probably get to that tomorrow if everyone's too slow to cast a vote on

Elbirn

.

That's fair, probably not a strategically sound play as town to be willing to roll over and take the mislynch. I mean I have come to terms with the fact that I'll probably be lynched if/when elbirn flips scum (well, maybe even regardless of the flip) but I'll continue to scumhunt now that we have info.

I don't really see the activity meaning much one way or the other, it is Saturday after all.

[Skygazer]

wow tw thats so lamist

[Skygazer]

okay i'd like to lynch profii tomorrow regardless of the elbirn flip

[Skygazer]

VOTE: profii

i like this counterwagon

don't like how profii continuously throws shade at me and taly yet is so ready to jump on to the elbirn wagon and place it at L-1, especially considering how he's showing doubts about elbirn

[Skygazer]

like, it's possible he knows that elbirn is going to flip town so he's flip flopping and throwing shade at taly and myself to set up future mislynches in the event of an elbirn town flip

[Skygazer]

I guess I can get on board with Elbirn if that’s what everyone wants to do and I’m taking the risk that if he flips scum you all bus me and inno Sky, which, would be against my scum!profii win con - so hopefully you take this query as me just checking and not trying to initiate a counter wagon

okay i'd like to lynch profii tomorrow regardless of the elbirn flip

I feel the same way but more so if Eibirn flips town, soz

Why would I be inno if Elbirn flips scum in that top post?? This doesn't sit right with me at all, it's like he's expecting Elbirn to flip town and wants to implicate people in advance of that.

[Skygazer]

hot take: we lynch profii and let tw kill elbirn or vice versa

[Skygazer]

can i offer clip art photoshops in exchange for night kills

[Skygazer]

update: i now have a folder in my onedrive labelled "duckling clipart"

[Skygazer]

this is probably the only counterwagon i'd jump on today for the record

i just didn't think it'd happen today

[Skygazer]

[Skygazer]

Informed is a normal modifier now for the record

[Skygazer]

Informed

: You know (some information about the setup). This information may be related to the setup, or to other players. It must be objective and accurate. For instance, an informed townie (or informed mafia) could be given any of the following:

• You know that this setup has 10 town members and 3 mafia members.
  
• You know that there is a rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that there is a mafia rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that (player) is a tracker.
  
• You know that (player) is a town doctor.
  
• You know that (player) is town. NOTE: if something like this is used, it must be non-random what player-slot is referred to. For example, if an informed townie is told that someone is town, it should be part of the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, rather than a completely randomly chosen town player. Or it should be part of the setup specification that they are told that a specific power role is town.

[Skygazer]

This modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net provided the information given is objective and accurate. Information should be non-random with regards to what player-slot is being referred to. For example, if someone is to be told that a player is town, it should be noted in the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, or a specific power role, and not just a randomly chosen town player.

I literally edited this in to the wiki an hour ago

[Skygazer]

This is a big reinforcement on why I think you're jumping on pushes for a lynch agenda rather than gamesolving.

I can meme and gamesolve. What are your thoughts about my case on profii?

Follow up: if Elbirn and I were to both flip town, who's scum?

[Skygazer]

Taly if you want someone that's not even trying to gamesolve then just look at the above profii post.

[Skygazer]

You put up a lot of possibilities on who could be scum following your vote on

Elbirn

without a lot of justification or push to a concrete conclusion.

Let me clarify: I'm sus at profii throwing shade at people on the Elbirn wagon yet still going along with it. My weak reads aren't inconsistent with my vote on Elbirn.

And what makes you think

profii

that

knows

Elbirn

could be town? I thought you were strong on

Elbirn

being scum.

What eliminates the possibility of

Profii-Elbirn

being scum-scum?

Which is what I think contradicts your 1943, where you say

profii-Elbirn

are BOTH scum, but it's clear that you still think

TW

is SK but you want to TELL him he should shoot

Elbirn

tonight. 1935, knowing that

TW

is keeping his cards close right now and leashing him won't be a productive way of figuring out his alignment here.

So it just feels like you're pushing away from the

Elbirn

being scum/lynch, but you still want him flipped?

I'm just saying that scum-profii/scum-elbirn and scum-profii/town-elbirn both make sense. His vote on Elbirn could be read as bussing or as opportunistic imo. I'm not pushing away from Elbirn necessarily, I would gladly go back to that vote (as you can see in my vice-versa post regarding TW's kill). I'm not sure how directing TW's kill is anti-town, other players have touched upon leashing the serial killer before and if he's vig he's likely going to shoot for scum anyways and if he's serial killer he's likely going to make shots that make him look like a vig so I don't get your point.

[Skygazer]

I'm going out of town tonight but I should still be able to phonepost

[Skygazer]

Hey xyzzy, what are your thoughts on {me, Almost50/elbirn, profii}?

[Skygazer]

profii do you see scum-chickadee basically guaranteeing herself as the lynch by crumbing and later claiming vengeful?? especially after scum lost one power role?

[Skygazer]

if yes: why?

if no: why the shade at chicka?

[Skygazer]

By definition, doesn't your vote on me already mean you think I'm up to something? I don't like that you're trying to weakly pressure me into giving up this line of reasoning. It also doesn't feel right at all that you're scumreading someone without putting any thought whatsoever into their claim (which imo is pretty telling of her alignment).

[Skygazer]

@profii: You've called Chickadee's reasoning "manufactured" and implied she's up to something so yes it's safe to infer you're scumreading her. If you're not scumreading her then why are you trying to draw this much negative attention to her? Why are you only just now implying that you're not actually scumreading Chickadee after all of this? You're backpedaling.

[Skygazer]

Also I find it hard to believe scum-Ausuka would cc like that?? Unless it's to get a mislynch on a dangerous town player?? But I don't see Ausuka doing that if they just lost a scum partner and I'm kind of paranoid about MoI after realizing how dangerous of a scum player he apparently is.

Scum!Ausuka would do it only if they really are a scum!fruit-vendor.
(This actually launched me into this weird theory-tunnel that I'd love to talk about

LATER.

So if anyone remembers/notices this down the line..)

Was hoping to ask HitAlt about this but he's already requested replacement, so I guess I'll just post this for everyone to look at/possibly answer: do you think Magna would claim fruit vendor as scum knowing that there's a town fruit vendor in the game? I think that they're almost definitely both fruit vendors but I've been back and forth on this. It'd be risky to claim as scum after seeing Rask receive a fruit and knowing there's a counterclaim out there, but I could see MoI being confident enough (considering he's been universally townread until today) to go through with it to attempt to draw out a claim that reveals more game info.

To clarify as to why I think they're both fruit vendors: it'd be near suicide to fakeclaim the role entirely and have their partner claim they received the fruit.

[Skygazer]

I really don't see scum-Ausuka counter-claiming a near universal town-read MoI, though...

The only reasoning I can see in Ausuka counter-claiming is because she feels confident enough to take on MoI as scum (I don't see this happening after Dram's death) or she genuinely feels she caught scum in MoI

(potential third reason: considering the investigative roles in Hit/Andrius, I can see the need for a scum-fruit vendor to out themselves early to avoid scrutiny if they're caught fruiting and not counter-claiming MoI, but I'm not strongly convinced this is the case here)

[Skygazer]

I still want to lynch profii/A50 today, leaning more towards profii rn obviously. I think tomorrow we should try to sort the fruit vendors and the worst.

[Skygazer]

{profii/A50/MoI/HWS/possibly Ausuka}

I think most of the rest of group-scum (possibly all group scum) is in that set of players.

[Skygazer]

Agreed but I don't like how profii flailed then disappeared so keeping my vote for now

[Skygazer]

I think one of them is probably scum which is why they're both in that set. I mean I literally just talked about sorting the fruit vendors.

[Skygazer]

Do you think there's four town investigative roles? Because that doesn't seem likely to me at the moment.

[Skygazer]

If scum were to have a disloyal fruit vendor and saw a second fruit vended or if they were to have information about the loyal fruit vendor then I could see it possible for MoI to claim to draw out the loyal fruit vendor without having to worry about being imminently lynched due to their position in the game.

I know you're townreading MoI but I'm just trying to figure everything out through PoE. I think you're town, I don't think HitAlt would claim as scum and risk a counterclaim, I don't think Ausuka would risk counter-claiming against a universal townread, and I don't think there are four investigatives, so process of elimination points towards MoI for me

[Skygazer]

I mean all this uncertainty is why I'm voting between A50/profii today. I'm just thinking through things for tomorrow out loud. Your points make sense though so I'll reevaluate.

[Skygazer]

A50 claimed VT but it looks like Magna thought that A50 replaced Hit instead of Elbirn

[Skygazer]

I think if profii was being a VI then it would've manifested itself on day one, but his day one play was pretty decent looking and he took a huge scummy turn on day two

[Skygazer]

Quick recap of how I'm interpreting profii's posts: I don't like how profii threw shade at rask's no lynch vote then suddenly started scumreading everyone who was voting for rask. He spent most of day one scumreading flubber, myself, and Taly, three people that are really easy to scumread (especially considering my wagon). He seemed really content with his flubber vote all day. He threw very light shade at dram and said he would examine him but then ended up on the xyzzy flashwagon out of nowhere because "momentum." Day two he seemed content lurking but then showed up and threw shade at basically confirmed town (Chickadee). After that he came in and voted for Elbirn despite his Taly scumread, and then jumped onto me once I had a vote, possibly hoping to start another wagon and (if A50 is scum) get off of that wagon. After that he throws more shade at Chickadee and paints her posts as "manufactured" and then goes "no lol I wasn't actually scumreading her" when called out.

So, as a whole, I see a ton of potential scum motivations behind his actions. The lurking plus the weird nature of his posts today could indicate someone who just lost a scum partner and is demotivated and scrambling.

I've been thinking that Elbirn was possibly flying under the radar for role related reasons but suddenly flashwagoning xyzzy isn't flying under the radar at all and A50's VT claim throws all of that out of the window.

[Skygazer]

Taly, regarding the scumreads on me D1, you have to keep in mind that I was basically wagoned with no reasoning other than Ausuka scumreading me for like one thing that I did very early on into the game.

[Skygazer]

orrrr I looked it up on the wiki when Andrius called profii a VI

[Skygazer]

What I'm a little concerned about with the xyzzy lynch is that was the counter wagon to dramonic.

This is a very good point

[Skygazer]

We DID lynch Flubbernugget and we had a HitAlt wagon as well do let's not forget there were FOUR wagons close to lynch.

This is a very good point

[Skygazer]

In all seriousness I'm not feeling lynching xyzzy at all especially when compared to profii

[Skygazer]

hitalt

[Skygazer]

That gambit doesn't really work that well when there are like 20 claimed power roles and you're scumread by a decent chunk of the game

It reads like you're just going for towncred by pointing out how you're trying to draw the night kill

[Skygazer]

@MoI HitAlt basically put all of his cards on the table day two and was the first to do so, and those cards seem to line up with his D1 play. I really think Hit playing the way he did day one would absolutely tank his chances of surviving as scum the more I think about it. It could be some wild gambit, but on D1 in a large game? If he was scum he'd be bound to know that that kind of softclaiming gambit would get him sorted sooner rather than later. As for Andrius, he has been a huge town read of mine since day one and he's semi-clear from your fruit. If you were to flip scum, I highly doubt you'd risk the gambit of trying to clear your scum partner - I think it's much more likely that scum-MoI would want to spread wifom over a strong town player. So right now that narrows it down to yourself and Ausuka (going on the assumption that one of the investigatives is scum), and I've stated why I think Ausuka's claim doesn't come from scum already. I think your argument about my D2 play getting suspiciously better is pretty bad; there's more for me to go off of after flips and I've been playing a lot more mafia lately so I feel more comfortable in my reads and logic at the moment.

[Skygazer]

It feels like a lot of the arguments regarding xyzzy

[Skygazer]

Whoops hit submit early

It feels like a lot of the arguments regarding xyzzy all come back to lurking and I really don't feel like lynching a lurker would be the best move when we have a much scummier player in profii.

[Skygazer]

I think his latest lynchpool of {tw, me, xyzzy} seems kind of convenient and he doesn't really back it up with strong scumhunting. I don't really see much gamesolving at all, just a lot of reliance on his older reads and a healthy amount of AtE by offering himself up as a lynch (granted, there was a brief point in the game where I was just like "whatever I might as well be lynched" before stuff started to click so that's not the

strongest

tell...). I don't like that he brushes off his L-1 vote on Elbirn/A50 as a reaction test and I don't get why he's calling for the lynch/death of A50 (a townread of his) for the sake of sorting.

I've seen nothing town from him lately so his latest posts haven't changed my opinion

[Skygazer]

i really wish the profii wagon hadn't disintegrated

i still think xyzzy is not the best option here, although i haven't been liking their latest posts as much to be honest

VOTE: HWS

[Skygazer]

Taly, I kind of have to agree with you that xyzzy/HWS feel like compromise lynches. I've said this before but I'd much rather be voting for profii rn. Do you feel the same?

[Skygazer]

Didn't mean for it to come across that way, I just saw that Taly had mentioned she thought that xyzzy and HWS were compromise lynches so I was wondering if I was safe in my assumption based on her posts that she'd rather be voting for profii

[Skygazer]

VOTE: profii

[Skygazer]

xyzzy, do you have any reasons for not wanting to lynch profii other than the fact that he calls for his own lynch? Because I was rereading and noticed that and it feels p weak to me considering everything else about profii

[Skygazer]

He kind of coasted with his flubber vote D1, threw noncommital shade at dram, then suddenly jumped onto a flashwagon when dram was under suspicion. Today he jumped onto the Elbirn wagon despite the scumreads on Taly and myself who were on the wagon and implied Chickadee was up to no good even though she's basically conf-town. Personally I think those all make sense as scum and his whole "lynch me/kill me" thing seems like a desperate AtE.

[Skygazer]

Ausuka, who is town af to you?

[Skygazer]

MoI I've never actually considered that detective could be a scum counter to a serial killer. Has someone brought that up before? Because that actually seems in the realm of possibility and you're right that I hadn't considered it.

Clearly you have to argue that your claim made Ausuka scramble but that's honestly not how I'm seeing it, it seems like she genuinely feels that she caught scum with that counterclaim.

It feels like you're trying to discredit my reads by saying there's no way I could possibly know that Gamma/Ausuka are town but that's not at all what I'm getting at. I'm allowed to have reads, I'm allowed to use information in the game to arrive at those reads, the fact that you're trying to paint me as scummy for using information to arrive at the reads I've arrived at doesn't really sit right with me at all. Did I ever say that I 100% know that gamma/andrius/ausuka are town? No, if I did then I would've voted you immediately. I'm not sure why you're painting me as scum for not considering these various possibilities when the fact is I've only been on this site for a month and haven't had the experience with set-up design/spec to even consider those possibilities. You calling me a hidden alt for very flimsy reasoning feels like an absolute cop-out to just dismiss how other players are interprering my play at the moment.

You argue that the pressure hit profii way too easily but couldn't you say the same about xyzzy? Xyzzy was basically run up to L-1 with very little resistance, why aren't you considering the possibility that scum could be content with that wagon?

[Skygazer]

Mostly a PoE compromise. I think HWS could fit the bill for a profii partner, I haven't really seen much townposting from him, he fits the description of demotivated scum, he dropped his scumread on me when I wasn't a lynch option anymore, etc etc.

I really liked xyzzy's D1 posting, I think their flashwagon fits the bill for a dram counterwagon especially when you see that A50 started it and profii was on it, and I have the feeling they're being used to counterwagon profii/HWS as well. Their D2 posting hasn't been fantastic though and considering all of the claimed roles I'm not sure if I'm willing to buy that softclaim but I still think it's a bad choice compared to profii.

My reasons on profii haven't changed because he hasn't been doing much right now besides calling for his own death and putting a survivalistic L-1 vote on xyzzy.

[Skygazer]

I really wish I've played with profii before so I could evaluate that meta argument though

[Skygazer]

Still not really seeing how profii's posts indicate town? Like I could see them coming from town or scum so it's not really swaying me besides possibly the meta argument that I need to look into. Maybe I'm just being obtuse and not getting it.

[Skygazer]

Huh? I'm saying that A50 started the counterwagon and profii joined it so there are scum points to both there along with a possible association.

I'm also saying, independent of my A50 read, that HWS could fit the bill for a profii partner which is one of the reasons I was willing to compromise on a HWS lynch.

Is there a reason you're seeing those as related?

[Skygazer]

HWS has been townreading profii for most of the game and profii hasn't said anything about HWS yet jumped onto the competing wagon.

And yes, I think they (HWS/A50) both could be looked at through some associative reading especially if profii flips scum which I still think is very likely.

[Skygazer]

You do make some good points about xyzzy looking survivalistic though.

[Skygazer]

I think I used some clunky wording regarding counterwagons on the last page: I was saying I could see xyzzy to dram D1 and a counterwagon to profii/HWS on D2

[Skygazer]

If rask is scum tho then ausuka has to be scum and I'm not seeing that??

[Skygazer]

Phone posting, I wanna try to get to Taly's case tonight

Honestly if I do get lynched soon, this game is hopefully pretty solvable so I don't mind that much??

Don't like that MoI hasn't responded to my latest post at him, if I'm lynched seriously consider looking at him more in depth especially late game if he doesn't die

I feel like people are just letting profii slip away way too easily, I don't see how meta or his small towntells outweigh his scummy play this game

A50 and HWS are also slots to look at obviously, maybe inferno

Rask/Nos/Chicka are lock/conf town, xyzzy is def town, Gamma is probs town, brass is probs town, Ausuka is probs town over MoI

tw I'm sorry that u probs rolled sk ):

VOTE: A50

[Skygazer]

A50 I'm not going to play against my wincon

Like, xyzyy was basically supposed to be lynched at that point, right? So I buy his reaction

Forgot to mention Taly but he's town, his progression has been p natural and the indecisiveness reads as town

By solvable I mean there are a lot of obvtown people, a lot of roles, so I think this can be won through PoE and night actions

[Skygazer]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

SKY WHY ARE YOU SO DIFFERENT HERE

I mean I'm different in all the games I play in, my first game was p serious, my first sk game I lurked and lurked and lurked, and the transformers game was memey af with all the dueling/dayvigs

[Skygazer]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

SKY WHY ARE YOU SO DIFFERENT HERE

to add on to that I was basically locktown to everybody after fakeclaiming IC (I actually would've had a suicide-vig if I won a duel) so I had incentive to lie low and not post anything that could threaten scum in order to avoid being night killed

[Skygazer]

Interesting that HWS has never explained his profii read in depth

[Skygazer]

Actually he hasn't explained his xyzzy read either, went from not liking the flashwagon yesterday to being unsure to suddenly that's the best viable wagon for him

[Skygazer]

Ok grabbing my laptop now

[Skygazer]

Spoiler: hi taly part 1

115

Sky

agrees with

xyzzy's

assessment, but goes further and says that

Rask

is LAMIST...

Not really a lot to respond to here, I was pretty misguided and reevaluated my read later on.

514 Literally

Sky

is doing what

Elbirn

is in a different way - deflecting from the scumreads on her without actually evaluating them. Takes it a step further to distance herself and invalidate the reads on 515 without explaining why.

I mean, it's really hard to evaluate the scumreads on me when there was maybe only one person on my wagon who posted an actual reason to scumread me (Ausuka), especially when that one reason was for something stupid I did early game. I think 515 implied that I thought chicka and dave were much scummier than me (at the time) so I didn't get why my wagon was the one to take off.

527

Sky

states that it's difficult to gamesolve with the game content, but doesn't ask questions or try to resolve that issue.

I mean, that's true. This is my first large game and I felt very overwhelmed and out of my element after getting wagoned for essentially no reason so I didn't feel I had the skill or the motivation to make meaningful contributions.

528 With really no other prompt

Sky

brings up that she wasn't fond of

Dave

and

Chickadee

's responses and says they haven't posted content...
...while this is likely true at the time, I'm of the opinion is that she posted this to strengthen her previous two posts in why scumreading her is not effective.

I mean, yeah. They were imo scummier than me so I was trying to feel out why I was being voted compared to them and trying to figure out who on my wagon was being opportunistic.

586 and 587 is

Sky

defending her townread on

Elbirn

and brings up her scumreads...
Where's her vote on any of them?

indecisiveness? can't remember why I didn't vote

Sky

is almost virtually parroting people's reads who aren't being suspected, this was more true before she explained her townreads, though.

I mean I clearly explained my thought processes, just after the fact, so I'm not sure if this point holds up.

[Skygazer]

Spoiler: hi taly part 2

718 Oh look,

Sky's

posting a scumread on

Hit

while asking me questions.
Didn't she already say she felt

Dave (my slot

was scum, alongside

Flub

and

Chickadee

earlier??? If I'm misreading? I don't know where her reads are at and her vote's not following it since it's not being used.

I mean, I was agreeing with Andrius, one of my biggest townreads, he made a valid point about HitAlt that I hadn't thought about and I agreed with it. Generally when I don't know what's going on I like to look at my strong townreads that seem to have it together for some guidance. I don't see how me asking you a question is a point against me? You were criticizing me for not asking questions or trying to gamesolve and now that I asked a question you find it scummy? It feels like you're just tunnelling me/trying to find stuff to scumread me for.[/quote]

767

Sky

votes

Hit

out of her presumably multiple suspects because...

Hit's

becoming the playerlist's public enemy?
If she really thought

Hit

were scum, why is she voting him for

"pressure"

?

Pressure can be applied to your scumreads, why the scare-quotes? I had already stated at the time that I agreed with Andrius on hit, and generally I'd rather have my vote somewhere where it can actually do something[/quote]

With this... I kind of feel like

Hit

was intended to be a counterwagon to town-

Flub

. 769, 770, and 774 is her saying that she doesn't want votes on him prior to a response.

What even is a counterwagon to a town wagon?? iirc flubber hadn't shown up in a bit so I wanted to see him respond and that post came from a time when I was terrified about quick hammers

801 is

Sky

saying

Hit

is lining up mislynches through his honeypot, but doesn't expand on her individual thoughts on the reads/names he brought up.

((Which were Ausuka, Brassherald, Dave (Me), Chickadee, Sky, The Worst around this time))

I didn't say they were all mislynches, I was explaining the potential scum-motivation behind the honey pot. Like the way he was talking seemed to imply that he thought I was a mislynch and he wanted to flip me anyways so he could have lynches lined up for later. I don't see why I needed to expound on those individual reads when I was just thinking out loud.

852 and 853 is

Sky

focused on people's scumreads on her again, while stating how scummy

Hit's

reads are
...yawn.

I mean did you even see what hit was saying? He basically said he had put massive amounts of pressure on my with his vote without any reasoning and falsely called me flaily and kept stubbornly insisting there's no scum motivation in his posts without explaining why. At the time it was blatantly untrue and seemed massively scummy. Like, seriously, you have to be tunnelling me pretty hard to tell me I'm not gamesolving or asking questions and then start calling me scummy when I actually start pressing people and asking questions.

[Skygazer]

Spoiler: hi taly part 3

924 is

Sky

perpetuating that

Flub's

response to me is not good.

Is this scummy? Because it really wasn't a good response even if flubber flipped town and perpetuating is such a loaded word.

Sky

gives reads in 927 but they're vague and don't really help anyone decipher why she comes to her conclusions.

I was phoneposting and said I was willing to clarify and didn't have time to go into detail at the moment.

Not fond of the follow up 931, why is bad to want to lynch someone's scumleans?

Sky

seems to have little stated reasoning behind her scumreads but

Sky

has PLENTY of people in her

"null or IDK"

list.

I wasn't saying that it was bad, I was saying that I personally don't feel as comfortable lynching people that I'm not confident are scum. If HWS feels more comfortable lynching people he's leaning on then that would explain his large lynch-pool that I initially found scummy. With that misrep it feels like you've just kind of locked yourself into tunnel mode and want to see everything I do as scummy :/ and is it wrong to not feel confident in my reads? Because it was D1, of course I'm going to have a lot of nulls then. Anyways I had already talked about flubber and hit a bit by that point, I'm not sure how that translates into little stated reasoning.

981 The only reason

Sky

has for justifying her votes and scumreads is something being

"flaily"

like it's supposed to be this elabroate case when in reality she's not doing anything to ratify her thoughts.

That's untrue, I had already talked about hit prior to this post.

983

Sky

FINALLY expands on what

"flaily"

means to her, but then also talks about it being odd that

Hit

is pushing her and

Dram

, and while it IS true technically...
...Why is

Sky

concerned about

Hit's

read on

Dram

and not

Hit's

read on the MANY other people he's suspected, including her other townreads like

Brass

and etc.

Dram and myself were the main players that hit was voting at the time, and with little reasoning.

Sky

is townreading both

Xyzzy

and

Elbirn

1087 and 1088 even in light of

Xyzzy's

post 1086 which didn't do anything.

Do I have to reevaluate my read after every post? What about xyzzy's 1086 didn't do anything?

Post-claim, and etc. this ends in

Sky

and

Elbirn

voting

Flub

in 1266 and 1268 very close between each other. With neither of them questioning this, despite

Sky's

game-long townread on

Elbirn

for not much new reasoning, and

Elbirn

gut scumreading

Sky

but never saying anytihng else about it... this is their EoD1 votes.

If I'm townreading Elbirn then why would I be questioning Elbirn's vote on a player I find scummy???

...

Elbirn

and

Sky

have had opposing reads most of the day without ever pushing the other...

As I've said before, not agreeing with someone's reads doesn't automatically mean I can't find them town.

[Skygazer]

There, I can't say I haven't tried now. Taly, I think your play has been really good this game despite your scumread on me so please don't get too demotivated when I flip town, keep pushing people and gamesolving like you have and we can probably win the game.

[Skygazer]

aight so what's the scoop on xyzzy and skygazer

why are these the top 2?

I'll defer this to someone else because I'm a tad biased in regards to both of us :p

[Skygazer]

Taly has a pretty substantial case against me/A50's slot/xyzzy in 1725, 1726, and 1727 which I just finally responded to above

I think a lot of the votes on xyzzy come down to lurking but xyzzy had a town reaction to a hammer that was later nullified by Andrius's replace out due to Pine's policy and I like a lot of xyzzy's D1 posting

[Skygazer]

Seriously? Xyzzy was, as far as everyone knew, lynched, and said that they were town in what was supposed to be twilight. Like unless xyzzy has a history of twilight trolling or knew they weren't actually lynched (not really possible since Pine hadn't gotten online to resolve the whole thing until afterwards) then I don't see how xyzzy can still be scum to some people. There has to be some frustrated scum in the group that's doubling down on this and trying to push the lynch through anyways. By that I mean A50 and profii

[Skygazer]

Didn't realize the profii wagon was bigger than the A50 wagon until literally just now

VOTE: profii

[Skygazer]

I actually completely missed that HWS is also scumreading xyzzy still because I was looking at the votes

profii why are you assuming it was a dispute??? Like your wording 100% suggests it was a dispute and that's really sus. I'm pretty sure Pine has already stated his policy on replace outs earlier so I just assumed that he was figuring out whether or not Andrius was actually replacing out before enforcing his policy.

[Skygazer]

The Gustavo/Andrius vote was moved to the Not Voting category by moderator decision.

[Skygazer]

profii by your logic, if there did happen to be no policy listed, why would scum even think about trying to dispute it?? Like they can't dispute something on a policy that you thought didn't publicly exist so it wouldn't make sense for you to vote for xyzzy in that case.

[Skygazer]

Ausuka I think that's a good point but you're missing a votecount that has HWS on the hit wagon

[Skygazer]

==> Vote Count 1.8 <==

With 17 votes in play, it's 9 to lynch!

Blue's in a bind. They could try to stage a comeback and likely fail, or they could resign themselves to being kingmakers. Screw it. It's a game, and you only live once. They load up for bear in Brazil, and kick down green's front door, trying to retake their former base. Unfortunately, the dice just aren't having it. The offensive is nearly stalled entirely by green's last trooper in North Africa, who single-handedly takes down six blue soldiers. Blue wins a Pyrrhic victory, and takes the territory. Green spends its turn retaking Ukraine and North Africa, and settles in for the endgame.

[L-9]

Elbirn -

[L-9]

MagnaofIllusion -

[L-9]

Ausuka -

[L-9]

brassherald -

[L-9]

the worst -

[L-7]

dramonic - Inferno390, HitAlt

[L-3]

HitAlt - Andrius, Skygazer, dramonic, xyzzy, Flubbernugget, HeWhoSwims

[L-9]

Skygazer -

[L-9]

Inferno390 -

[L-9]

Chickadee -

[L-7]

xyzzy - Elbirn, Ausuka

[L-9]

HeWhoSwims -

[L-3]

Flubbernugget - MagnaofIllusion, Chickadee, Profii, Taly, brassherald, Raskolnikov

[L-9]

Raskolnikov -

[L-9]

Taly -

[L-9]

Andrius -

[L-9]

Profii -

Nursing their beer (Not voting)

- the worst

No one is in prod range.

Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-10 15:40:00)

[Skygazer]

hmn

do you think HWS could've jumped on the dram wagon late knowing that the claim was coming anyways?

Basically I saw and remembered the mod note I had pointed out and I guess I misremembered it as like a hard set policy after the Andrius replace out stuff went down

I think the thread was probably just locked while Pine was waiting to hear from Andrius due to the potential twilight

[Skygazer]

2) By pitting MOI on this list, you’re implying Andy and Chick might be scum. Why are they NOT on this list?

Do you think scum-MoI fake-cleared scum-Andrius and scum-Andrius fakecleared scum-Chicka and scum-Chicka fakeclaimed vengeful? Because 1) that would be hilarious and I'm secretly hoping that happened and wouldn't even be salty if we lost to that and 2) that would all come toppling down as soon as Chicka is lynched to get her vengekill because it would confirm Nos and MoI as scum so there's a 0% chance of that actually happening

[Skygazer]

How does scum-MoI and town-Andrius not fit the narrative with dram exactly? And I never said that scum-MoI and scum-Andrius isn't a possibility (I do find it extremely unlikely), I'm just saying that Chicka is clear except for that one extreme circumstance which would never happen.

pedit: will get to Ausuka wall soon

[Skygazer]

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

This is just a scumpost. It's very tonally off, has a lot of the read minimization I see in scum often, and to top it off the reason for it seems totally made up.

What's read minimization? And it wasn't totally made up, at the time my thought process was "oh Elbirn did a weird rvs vote that would obviously generate discussion so maybe Rask wants in on that credit for making a vote that generates discussion." Again, it was a poorly thought out interpretation but def not "totally made up."

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

And yeah this is along the same lines. I think I talked about this earlier but basically it's like a strange scumread on profii except she hesitates to really scumread profii properly. Like, duckling, you remember Rei in 1791 right? This is like that, scum trying to look uninformed imo.

It was page 5, no one has any actual information on page 5 :/

That's a lot to take in. Some thoughts:

Reevaluated my read on Rask, I think my logic was flawed as people have pointed out.
UNVOTE:

Getting townvibes from brass and elbirn. Magna's frustration towards spam posters seems genuine and town.

Not sure if Gustavo would act so belligerent if he were scum, wouldn't scum want to avoid drawing that kind of attention?

I need to get to posting so that I'm above that 20 post mark.
I'd hate to be under any scrutiny.

This pings me slightly, unless this was just a joke?

Still trying to internalize everything that just happened and I haven't really had many chances to interact with people so I feel pretty behind.

I might just be tunneling at this point? but I sorta dislike the backtracking @ rask and most other things about this post. Like, nothing here is really AI. Magna not liking spamposting is a position either alignment can hold and idk how town gets this read. Gustavo read is a bit more understandable but like that's just playstyle anyway. Even if you think Hitalt's joke is serious, how in the world can that only "ping you a bit"?

Do you think I'd be playing within my wincondition as town to just continue on with a vote that I've realized is poorly reasoned? Like I realize that backtracking can be scummy under circumstances but I also think it's important for town to back off when they realize they're wrong for obvious reasons.

Well you can try no

Why are dave and chickadee sscum? you seem to imply they are.

I pointed it out specifically to try and respond, and it's worked so far because I got brass to explain his read.

I wasn't really satisfied to dave's answer in 459 and his response to t_w's question in 471 is also unsatisfying. He doesn't explain why he would be satisfied with that answer, it's just a straight matter-of-fact yes which kind of pings me. It reads like he doesn't even want to clarify his point. Also 85 seems like safe fence-sitting fluff but that's been pointed out and it was so long ago.

I feel like chickadee has less content than me and I've been lurking pretty hard by this point so that's pretty sus but she could also just be in the same situation I've been in.

Read in chick for lurking by someone who had kinda been lurking is v meh. I did that in my first scumgame iirc and so did Myloninja.

I mean, imo I thought that chicka was lurking harder than me at that point and just because I'm lurking as town for personal reasons doesn't mean that everyone else who lurks is automatically town too.

sky- I didn’t like that unvote but I appreciate not everyone has loads of time - I certainly avoid games any bigger than this because I am not sharp enough to keep up properly so I’d like to say to sky please provide 3 scum reads and why

Three top scumreads for the moment, in order:
dave's slot, as I've already discussed
Ausuka for sheeping/hopping onto wagons, lack of reads, lack of reasonings, etc. I said earlier that I think there's at least one opportunistic scum on my wagon and I think this is the most likely option in regards to that.
Flubber, I don't like how he jumped on chickadee for "PT-slipping" when it's clearly stated in the rules, and there's the whole "coasting" post that Magna pointed out

I lost my grasp on the chickadee scumread after rereading her and seeing more content than I remembered and I like her most recent interaction/vote on flubber.

Skygazer, can you point to any specific Elbirn posts that have you town reading him?

22, 75, 77 and 79 feel like he's genuinely trying to create content early on. I don't really get how people are scumreading these for being pushy when the pushiness was useful in helping us get out of rvs. 125 doesn't have game content but I'm reading it as relaxed/carefree which is a towntell imo. I also like 507.

read on me is ??? because I was first on her wagon and gave reasoning for it. Again, don't see how this read is real.

At that point I had forgotten about your initial vote on me and was also referring to you sheeping MoI's flubber vote.

Strong townreads so far in order: brass, MoI, Andrius, and elbirn

brass has lots of good content which imo definitely outweighs the fluff, and I like the fact that he's genuinely trying to keep his fluff posting down now
MoI continues to post good content and I like their reads for the most part
I like Andrius's 570 and like I stated earlier I don't see gus's behavior coming from scum
I talked about elbirn in my last post

I would consider this to be a bad townpool although tbf this isn't really scummy but these players are worth looking at if Sky does red.

@Skygazer want readlist from you, also response to flubber answers you said you were waiting for

Response to flubber is above.

Readlist

Strong Town

Magna
Andrius
Elbirn
xyzzx
brass

Town Lean

profii
Rask
Inferno
Ausuka - has some good posts, I'm just offput by her tunnelling of me

I Don't Know How To Sort These Players To Be Quite Honest

dram
the_worst
Taly - dave was scummy, Taly has made some good posts since he's been here tho
Chickadee

Scum Lean

HeWhoSwims - I don't like 832 where he has like six different scumreads he's willing to vote for

Strong Scum

flubber
HitAlt

Very bad readslist imo, especially the strong scum section. Flubber and hitalt scumpool is very convenient. She also never really attempts to sort dram at all.

Again, D1. I'm very bad at getting a hold of the game on D1, especially if you look at some of my townreads. Someone else already pointed out that it's not unreasonable for me to find the two widely scumread players as my strongest scum especially if they're actually behaving scummy (which they were). It's just unfortunate that flubber flipped town and Gamma is likely town.

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

This also seems fake to me? Like, tonereading as x alignment is normal. The fact that Sky talked about tonereading it as a quality (defensiveness) and added "a bit" to soften it makes it look faked.

Not sure what you mean about tonereading as a quality? I can say that that wasn't meant to soften anything, more to point out that profii wasn't being full blown defensive, just a bit. In hindsight though it just looks like he was trying to get information out of Gus which is NAI to me.

Don't like that last series of flubber posts (975 to 978).

HitAlt's 979 is flaily enough for me to keep my current vote for now, though.

More flubber and hitalt pushing???
also, i don't really see the "a bit" defensive thing?

Is pushing my scumreads a bad thing??? And why don't you see the "a bit" defensive thing? Like it's obvious that profii wasn't going completely flaily and fervently defending himself but I still argue that his posts there had a defensive quality to them.

[Skygazer]

Ausuka your thought process regarding me seems really genuine and I'm glad you're finally outlining it but I feel like you're just in confbias mode and tunnelling like Taly

[Skygazer]

I wish I was on a PC rn.

Almost51
MagnaofIllusion
brassherald
the worst
Skygazer
xyzzy
HeWhoSwims
Profii

^ So apart from the person who might be my fruitvend target this should be a complete list of where scum are right? obviously not looking for "you could be scum!!!!" comments just wanna make sure I'm being reasonable.

This does seem really reasonable btw

[Skygazer]

I think it's pro-scum to pretend you're town and twilight, and most scum i see do it if they're on-site for the hammer. I read xyxxy's twilight posts and they don't really seem like anything to flip a read over.

That's fair, maybe I'm just biased because I've been townreading them

[Skygazer]

If anyone has a problem with this method then they should be quick, direct, and succinct.

Hmm. What if a pool of five pick a certain player and the other ten don't want that player lynched but are dispersed in such a way that the five get a majority? Can we do a lynch count and a definitely not lynch count with one each?

IE

Lynch:
Sky -
A50 -
Profii - Skygazer
HWS -
xyzzy -

Save:
Sky -
A50 -
Profii -
HWS -
xyzzy - Skygazer

[Skygazer]

If we're gonna go with this the next person can start by copy-pasting from mine btw, that's where I'm at

[Skygazer]

We have a death pool of myself, profii, HWS, a50, and xyzzy

(still think xyzzy is a stupid lynch)

[Skygazer]

Gamma slot claimed an investigative who stated that tw tried to kill someone last night and tw admitted to the dram shot

MoI claimed odd-night loyal fruit vendor, Ausuka claimed loyal fruit vendor, their targets were Nos and Rask respectively

Nos slot claimed an inno on chicka without full claiming

Inferno claimed visitor i think??? Was that a thing? Or am I being dumb?

Chicka claimed vengeful

Brass claimed activated bp who activated last night

A50 claimed VT unprompted and then spread a ton of wifom around it

Am I missing any?

[Skygazer]

Taly made cases on myself/a50 slot/xyzzy, HWS has been super lurky and not really contributing, and profii did a bunch of sus stuff today, I can find my summary post on that

I think xyzzy's posts were pretty well reasoned and town yesterday and they lurked a bit today but also said that they were town in what was supposed to be twilight today

[Skygazer]

tw is probs a serial killer but possibly a vig so I think town is just going to push him to make protown kills for now

[Skygazer]

Spoiler: my case on tw and why we should leash him

[Skygazer]

I don't like how profii threw shade at rask's no lynch vote then suddenly started scumreading everyone who was voting for rask. He spent most of day one scumreading flubber, myself, and Taly, three people that are really easy to scumread (especially considering my wagon). He seemed really content with his flubber vote all day. He threw very light shade at dram and said he would examine him but then ended up on the xyzzy flashwagon out of nowhere because "momentum." Day two he seemed content lurking but then showed up and threw shade at basically confirmed town (Chickadee). After that he came in and voted for Elbirn despite his Taly scumread, and then jumped onto me once I had a vote, possibly hoping to start another wagon and (if A50 is scum) get off of that wagon. After that he throws more shade at Chickadee and paints her posts as "manufactured" and then goes "no lol I wasn't actually scumreading her" when called out.

So, as a whole, I see a ton of potential scum motivations behind his actions. The lurking plus the weird nature of his posts today could indicate someone who just lost a scum partner and is demotivated and scrambling.

quoted for nos

[Skygazer]

or quoted for jingle? whichever replacement wanted to see a case on someone in the death

[Skygazer]

oh xyzzy i hope ur okay now ):

Ill be around for deadline stuff tomorrow

[Skygazer]

rabble rabble rabble I still wanna see a profii lynch over xyzzy

was going to move my vote to avoid the NL but the deadline got extended

more to come later today?

[Skygazer]

I,, what? Did you just imply xyzzy is town or

[Skygazer]

I'm down with 3105

VOTE: MoI

[Skygazer]

I think protective is a good assumption mostly because I want gamma and ausuka to be locktown

[Skygazer]

Nos do you have anymore clears?

[Skygazer]

I think profii is scum. Same with HWS but weaker.

So basically the same as yesterday but moreso with that A50 flip.

[Skygazer]

MagnaofIllusion
Skygazer
Jingle
Chickadee
HeWhoSwims
Taly
Nosferatu
Profii

If we take out Chicka then I think I'm fine with this lynch pool. I really don't think scum-Chicka would claim vengeful if she was cleared by scum-Nos who was cleared by scum-MoI because the moment she's lynched they'd all go.

[Skygazer]

In other news I don't see an actual town investigative earnestly calling for their own lynch if they can still clear/guilty players so 3139 reeks of scum AtE. Happy with my vote here especially when you add in MoI's end of day posts from yesterday.

[Skygazer]

Sky I feel less anytime someone's been a viable lynch you've been some level of willing even if token protesting

I mean that's true to some extent if you look at my votes? Like I only jumped on to the profii wagon because it had become viable but I was pushing profii before everyone jumped on him. I only voted for MoI today because there was already a vote on him but I've been sus of him since D2. I just don't find myself that charismatic of a player yet so I feel more useful on wagons.

And regarding the "token protesting" I feel like I did everything I could to try and stop the xyzzy wagon but again I'm just not that charismatic of a player.

[Skygazer]

I can't remember profii saying anything at all about MoI yesterday so that vote looks super weird imo

[Skygazer]

I volunteer as counterwagon bait

It'd feel wrong to not be wagoned three days in a row

Scum hop on this if you want MoI to live

[Skygazer]

sorry chicka i'll nix the shitposting

[Skygazer]

I think HWS is more likely town than MoI after HWS's posts here

Although I'm paranoid that claim was designed to draw out the player with the loud modifier

[Skygazer]

I don't disagree with that unless MoI somehow flips town and then I'll wholeheartedly disagree with that :p

I think anyone who voted dram before the claim could be distancing. I think anyone who reaffirmed their vote after the claim but before the pressure disappated are likely town. I think anyone who unvoted is sus and anyone who kept their vote after the pressure disappated could be scum that felt safe distancing. Gonna go look at the votes now to figure that out.

[Skygazer]

That is a good point...

So far I see inferno/Jingle holding their vote after the claim

[Skygazer]

Ausuka/Taly were the early unvoters but Ausuka waited to verify the claim made sense

[Skygazer]

I think HWS's vote and unvote would fit the bill for distancing? He doesn't say anything about dram other than dram is in his lynch pool and he doesn't like any of the posts, votes dram only when it's gaining traction, then states that "the claim is too thought out to be faked" or something along those lines and immediately jumping ship for the next biggest wagon

[Skygazer]

If there was bussing on the dram wagon then I think that's it because I'm townreading Ausuka/Taly and Jingle's slot held strong with the dram vote

HitAlt also held on with the dram vote and it's already been established that TW mechanically can't be scum w dram so I think that's everyone on the wagon

[Skygazer]

If MoI is town then I'd be looking at profii, HWS, and then Taly/Gamma

But Taly is town af and while Gamma's role would be a good scum counter to a SK I don't think that Hit would be so cavalier about outing TW if Hit was scum. If TW is a vig then I think that Gamma has to be town because a scum detective would be such an oddly specific investigative for scum to have while a vig would be a p good counter to a town detective's usefulness.

I agree that town-MoI doesn't make much sense with the remaining playerlist unless Ausuka is scum which I would never see rn.

[Skygazer]

how do you think the scum decided on A50 as a kill?

If they are scum reading A50, by removing them ,they force themselves to justify new reasons for lynching whoever they pick... that surely makes the game harder for them?

is this a slip???

TW claimed the A50 kill which means there's a kill missing, but this post seems to know that scum killed A50

Also, why are you defending MoI if you're voting for him?

I really don't like this post

[Skygazer]

I feel like 3357 is an obv deflection with a weak explanation followed by pushing on someone else who didn't vote for dram

I say we lynch profii tomorrow