Umlaut's micro normal review, July 2018

[implosion]

Sure, here it is.

Roles:
2x

Mafia Loud Goon

1x

Town Neapolitan

1x

Town Bodyguard

1x

Town Visitor

4x

Vanilla Townie

No daytalk, no plurality lynch, nothing unusual in the rules or mechanics.

(Will provide role PMs on demand; my experience says roles often change during review, so I prefer to wait until the setup passes for balance.)

Notes:

• My understanding is that a Loud Goon should commit factional nightkills loudly (that is, the targeted player will be alerted that they were targeted and by whom).
  
• "Town Visitor" could be replaced with any nearly-zero-utility town role; its purpose in the game is to investigate to the Neapolitan as non-vanilla.

Spoiler: Full rules post

RULES

None of these rules supercede or contradict the Forum Rules and Guidelines, all of which are in full force.

---

Conduct

• Don't use
  orange
  , it's my color.
  
  
• Play to win.
  
  
• Don't discuss the game outside of the game until the moderator says it's over.
  
  
• Don't flame. Don't harass. Don't use insults that target minority, disadvantaged, or legally protected classes.
  
  
• Keep interpersonal disputes out of the game thread.
  
  
• Don't quote or misquote private communications from the moderator.
  
  
• Don't use encryption, tiny/hidden/unreadable text, or anything that could be easily confused for such.
  
  
• All replacement requests will be taken as serious, irrevocable, and immediate. Once you request replacement you are no longer a player.
  
  
• Don't game the rules, pretend to break the rules, or intentionally test the limits. All pretended violations will be dealt with identically to actual violations.
  
  
• Don't break the rules of any other ongoing game in this thread.
  
  
• Don't argue moderator actions in the game thread. If you want to dispute a ruling, do so via PM.

---

Voting, abilities, and deadlines

Day

• Days begin with a deadline of
  10 days
  .
  
  
• Days end when one of the following events occurs:
  • The deadline is reached.
    
  • A lynch (or no-lynch) is achieved.
    
  • A town-aligned player is modkilled.
• Votes should be made via the vote tag: "[vote]<playername>[/vote]" or "[v]<playername>[/v]". Full player names or initial segments thereof are preferred.
  
  
• When more than half of living players are voting for the same player, that player will be lynched and the day will end. Votes are irrevocable once a majority is achieved.
  
  
• You may vote not to lynch by voting for "No lynch". When half or more of living players do so, the day will end without a lynch.
  
  
• If the day reaches deadline without a majority, there will be no lynch.
  
  
• I will interpret malformed votes according to my own discretion. In general, if it looks like a vote, I will probably count it as a vote. I reserve the right to edit malformed votes for easier counting.
  
  
• When a majority vote has been achieved but not yet recognized by the moderator, the game is in
  twilight.
  Players, including the lynchee, may continue to post during this period.
  
  
• Under certain circumstances I may elect to extend the deadline. I will announce this in thread if it occurs.

Night

• Nights will last
  48 hours
  or until all living players give me their approval to end the night early.
  
  
• During the night, you should be unable to post in the public game thread. If for some reason you are able, doing so is still against the rules.
  
  
• Mafia night abilities should be submitted in the Mafia's private thread. Factional kills must specify which mafioso carries out the kill.
  
  
• Town night abilities should be submitted via PM.
  
  
• Use of active night abilities is optional unless otherwise specified in the role PM; if no action is submitted, no action will occur.

---

Activity requirements

• Players who do not confirm within
  48 hours
  of receiving their role PM will be replaced.
  
  
• Players who do not post for
  48 hours
  in a single game-day will incur a prod.
  
  
• Players who do not post for
  24 hours
  following a prod will be replaced.
  
  
• Players who incur three prods will be replaced.
  
  
• At my discretion, excessive "prod-dodging" may result in a mod warning and subsequently in disregard of future dodges.
  
  
• If for any reason you are temporarily unable to meet these requirements, you may declare V/LA status
  in thread
  and be excused. V/LA declarations must include a definite end date.
  
  
• Notwithstanding V/LA status, any player who does not post at all for
  7 days
  of consecutive day time will be replaced.
  
  
• These are minimal requirements, not recommendations; please keep the game active.

[implosion]

Primary reviewer: RadiantCowbells
Secondary reviewer: Ircher

[RadiantCowbells]

I need to check but I believe precedent is to not apply loud to factionao actions like nightkills

[Ircher]

I need to check but I believe precedent is to not apply loud to factionao actions like nightkills

From mastina's review (the second) which featured a Mafia Loud Fruit Vendor:

In post 9, Empking wrote:
PMs seem fine, save for it being ambighious whether "Loud" applies to the kill also (if he is the killer).
The role specifies "any" action, and the nightkill counts as an action, so yes. When the Loud Fruit Vendor makes a nightkill, the player targeted for the nightkill is informed. (Not that it matters, since there is no kill prevention method so if they get nightkilled by the Loud Fruit Vendor, they die no matter what, but if the mafia ask about it this will be my answer.)

(I think they passed it using the above definition.)

[Ircher]

I actually think this setup might be balanced?

Like if anything, I'm worried that it is too town-sided, but Neopolitan is strictly weaker than Cop, and going by the Matrix6 results with Cop + 6 VTs vs. 2 Goons, I think this setup is balanced by the fact that the mafia are loud and at least one of them is almost certainly going to be lynched due to a visitor CC (really likely). I don't think both will by the virtue of their roles though....

[Umlaut]

I'm here.

If it's decided this is a bit townsided I could change the Visitor to something explicitly negative-utility like Macho Townie, since all I really care about is that it's not vanilla. Or if it's a bit scumsided I could make it something mildly useful like Voyeur.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not necessarily a question of balance so much as the interactions in this setup are terrible

I'm not a fan at all of the nea getting outed D1 and that feeding town a guilty via bodyguard

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we make the nea macho

[Umlaut]

I'd counter that Mafia knowing they're both loud have enough information to guess that making the incredibly obvious move of killing an outed investigative is a Bad Idea, and if they don't realize that then being outed by the protect is a fair punishment for bad nightplay. But if you disagree after consideration then I can rework to avoid that.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok but like

what is the counterplay here

you either let the nea take night actions or you take a free guilty on one of you

[Umlaut]

Yeah... it seems like the basic issue here is that there's no detriment to town for the nea to be outed.

Don't know if making him macho would fix that, given the popularity of minimal claims like "I'm an investigative" that wouldn't actually even tell BG or scum he was macho. Could instead give Mafia a 1-Shot Strongman, so they have a counterplay available but it's still up to them to use it properly. This would potentially reveal to the BG in that situation there's a strongman but I don't think the information would actually be actionable for Town.

[Umlaut]

Actually I really like that; that set of roles pretty much screams to the Mafia "If you shoot at someone you'd better be sure that someone actually dies; you get one shot where that's guaranteed; you're on your own for the rest."

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah but like strongman and bodyguard is such overkill

I think it's much more enjoyable for all parties if the nea simply cannot be protected but the bodyguard gets a guilty for correctly protecting town off of play merits

The strongman version is balanced but feels bad for scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Feels bad for the bodyguard, sorry

Otherwise you're talking a guaranteed 1/2 of the nightkills before lylo made unprotectable and I think the bodyguard would be really mad if they blocked correctly but strongman, it's better if the unprotectable is tied to the PR itself imo

[Umlaut]

I see what you mean. My only remaining worry in the macho case is that if the nea derpclaims as unmodified, this actually goes better for town than if he claimed fully since either a goon will get outed or the mafia will avoid the kill for fear of that. If you don't think that's a serious problem then I'll run the version you suggested. I'll start working on Role PMs in a bit.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think scum will just take the shot on the nea regardless

That's what I'd prefer, if you like the strongman version I can pass it as well

[Umlaut]

No, your point about "but Strongman!" being unfun for the Bodyguard is well taken. I'll go with your version.

2x

Mafia Loud Goon

1x

Town Macho Neapolitan

1x

Town Bodyguard

1x

Town Visitor

4x

Vanilla Townie

Spoiler: Role PMs

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to the game, #NAME! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities

You have no special abilities.

Win Condition

You win when the

Town

is the sole surviving faction (or when nothing can prevent this).

Links

Game thread

Town Macho Neapolitan

Welcome to the game, #NAME! You are a

Town Macho Neapolitan

.

Abilities

• Investigate:
  Every night you may investigate one other player, to learn whether that player is
  a Vanilla Townie
  or
  not a Vanilla Townie
  .
  
• Macho:
  If you are the target of a kill attempt, that kill will succeed even if you are protected.

Win Condition

You win when the

Town

is the sole surviving faction (or when nothing can prevent this).

Links

Game thread

Town Bodyguard

Welcome to the game, #NAME! You are a

Town Bodyguard

.

Abilities

• Guard:
  Every night you may guard one other player, to protect them from being killed during the night. If you prevent a kill in this way, you will die instead.

Win Condition

You win when the

Town

is the sole surviving faction (or when nothing can prevent this).

Links

Game thread

Town Visitor

Welcome to the game, #NAME! You are a

Town Visitor

.

Abilities

• Visit:
  Every night you may visit one other player. (This has no particular effect.)

Win Condition

You win when the

Town

is the sole surviving faction (or when nothing can prevent this).

Links

Game thread

Mafia Loud Goon

Welcome to the game, #NAME! You are a

Mafia Loud Goon

. Your partner, #ANOTHERNAME, is also a Mafia Loud Goon.

Abilities

• Night talk:
  During the pregame and night, you and your teammate may talk in a private thread, linked below.
  
• Factional kill:
  Every night you and your teammate may choose one person to kill. You must specify which of you carries out the shot.
  
• Loud:
  Anyone you target at night will be informed that you targeted them (but not the nature of the action).

Win Condition

You win when the

Mafia

is the sole surviving faction (or when nothing can prevent this).

Links

Game thread
Mafia Private Thread

What is some reasonably in-flavor yet unambiguous wording for a "you were targeted by" message? (I hate using the word 'targeted by' since it sounds more like a game mechanic than an "in-universe" description of what the character saw, but I'm worried that something like 'visited by' might imply a Visitor specifically.)

[Umlaut]

Night result PMs

Neapolitan result (Vanilla)

Your investigation revealed that #NAME is

a Vanilla Townie

.

Neapolitan result (Non-Vanilla)

Your investigation revealed that #NAME is

not a Vanilla Townie

.

There are no mechanics that can block an investigation so a "no result" PM is unnecessary.

Target of loud kill (successful or not)

You couldn't help but notice that #NAME dropped by during the night.

Is there anything else I need before this is passed?

[RadiantCowbells]

Go for it

[Umlaut]

Planning to add the following section to the top of the rules post

Tl;dr

• This game is Normal.
  
• Days are 240 hours (10 days); nights are 48 hours (2 days).
  
• Standard 48/24 prod timers.
  
• Standard lynch mechanics.
  
• No default daytalk.

This is just consolidating information already in the post. I don't see any reason it would be a problem but I'm quoting the edit here for thoroughness' sake.

[Umlaut]

This game has ended and this thread can be safely made public.

[RadiantCowbells]

no it can't this is not aloud