Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[TrinityNZ]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game?
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why?

(1) I’m probably in a different time zone to most of you, and generally post in the evenings (my time), which starts now. I can’t post from work during the day, as this site is blocked on our work computers. Sometimes I post from my mobile phone. That’s one reason why my posts are usually pretty short. Another is that I’m still figuring out how to play this game.
(2) I’ve played one full game, and am now in a couple of games. I was mafia in my first game, which threw me, and I had no idea how to act, so probably played the game pretty badly. Prior to that game, I had never played mafia or any game like it in my life. I saw some kids playing it on the train and had no idea what it was. I came home and asked my own kids if they’d ever heard of a game where someone was the mafia, and they said of course! And here I am.
(3) After my bad first experience, I’d have to say that I prefer hunting mafia, not being hunted. I can see that manipulating town could be fun though.

[TrinityNZ]

VOTE: Iceman

He was town in his first 2 games and played, now he goes missing under suspicious circumstances, smells like rat scum to me.

Also, Oka, I'm still not your dancing monkey and dont have to prove shit

Maybe he doesn’t want to play with us again!

[TrinityNZ]

VOTE: maggie

Just a random vote

[TrinityNZ]

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

[TrinityNZ]

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

Um. Why are you voting him? Do you think it's scummy that he made a drug reference? I feel like I'm missing something.

I thought we were still in RVS, and as Maggie is being replaced, and isn’t around, thought I’d switch my vote. So I didn’t think the drug reference was scummy, but just the reason for my random vote.

[TrinityNZ]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

It helps to get a sense of people and to get some conversation started. I always try to develop a feel for people's baseline in games where I don't know anyone and those questions can be good for that. They're also the type of things that will usually come up at some point over the course of the game, so I think it gets that information out there earlier. Plus I feel like people have a tendency to tunnel a bit out of RVS, so I'm not a huge fan of the thing. "Who are we all and how do we play" feels like a healthier and more balanced way to start a game than "lol you're mafia".

I liked it.

[TrinityNZ]

It's scummy because they are making it seem like they don't want to vote because we may be out of rvs already, not very likely when we are barely on page 2. They answer their own question by mentioning that nothing scummy has really come up, which would mean that most likely we are still in rvs.

So if they were concerned about being out of rvs as a reason to have not voted, their own reasoning is negated by their own observation of the game, and should have felt comfortable voting freely.

For some reason they didn't.

*She/her, thanks.

It's possible to be out of RVS on page 2, just as it's possible for scummy things to happen during RVS, so I think your logic here is wrong. From my perspective, it seemed like there might be enough substantive talk, especially based on/around nancy's questions, that we might be out of RVS, but I wasn't positive because I'm still pretty new and I'm not 100% sure when RVS ends (other than everybody agreeing that it's over). So, I could either risk making a random vote and getting scrutinized for that, or I could be wrong about the RVS status and risk being scrutinized for not voting at all. I went with "don't vote, explain why, and assume people will understand," but that failed, and here we are.

Speaking of vote scrutiny...

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

My understanding of RVS is that it only involves one random vote, and then the next vote should be serious. So, why this second non-serious vote?

Oops. I didn’t realise there was a restriction on how many random votes you could do. Sorry. Should I unvote?

[TrinityNZ]

And your response feels genuine, which I like? It's not very alignment indicative but sure, let's say it's a little bit towny for now. I mean, it would have been scummy for you to actually call him scum for such bad reasons, so that not being a thing is the main thing I get from your response. Still like you for town, woohoo!

Yeah, I’m not saying he’s scum. Yet.

[TrinityNZ]

Yet?

Just that it’s too early to tell

[TrinityNZ]

Hum. Seems like a weird thought to have. Like, you're sort of suggesting that you're going to scumread him at some point?

Oh ok, It was a general comment, not just about him, but I can see how that came across.

[TrinityNZ]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

[TrinityNZ]

What are Pregame Readscales lmao

nancy ~ )) ---- )) ---- stan - FF, Trinity - [Iceman, Eragon] % )) - > SA, OkaPoka - Flicker )) ~

Can you explain what this means?

[TrinityNZ]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

Okay, why not? Do you have any hints of a read on either of them separately?

I don’t have any scum reads on them ATM, but maybe today I will have a look through the ISOs and do some more investigating.

[TrinityNZ]

What are Pregame Readscales lmao

nancy ~ )) ---- )) ---- stan - FF, Trinity - [Iceman, Eragon] % )) - > SA, OkaPoka - Flicker )) ~

Can you explain what this means?

It's a sliding scale, townreads spread left, scumreads spread right. The % marks rand, which is 75%. (Everyone in the game has a 75% chance of being town.) Each dash is equivalent to about 2.5% off rand, and commas mean there's no difference.

Uhmm, other little details are that each double bracket is a hard grouping, each single bracket (not yet appearing) is a soft grouping, names surrounded by square brackets are slots that are either null or I don't want to lynch them even if they're in my PoE (for example, it's bad from a process standpoint to lynch an empty slot, because it can't claim), slots right of the arrow are in my lynch pool, the tilde separates lock townreads from mechanically confirmed town, ditto lock scumreads (lol yeah right) from mechanically confirmed scum.

So, it means that you and FF are like, a smidge above rand for me (say like, ~78% confidence you're town), stan is a smidge above you both (~80%), and SA, Poka and Flicker are smidges below rand (~70%). Iceman and Eragon are null.

Does that make sense?

If it's too complex I can just use a simpler tiered list, but using the readscale really helps me to get a feel for exactly where I want to place people in terms of confidence and how my reads all fit with each other. Hard and soft groupings are particularly helpful for me because it lets me put certain players together who I have similar-ish strength reads on but maybe have something about them that makes them a little distinct that I want to notate. I wouldn't expect you to do anything like this don't worry lmao, it's more for my own benefit than anything.

Thanks for the explanation. I like it

[TrinityNZ]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

Also um, what do you mean the question seems a bit odd to you sorry? Explains?

Well it seemed obvious to me that you were doing your thing as IC in getting us talking, and getting some conversations going. Also a good way for us to know a little about each other, to make the game feel a bit more social and not like we are all complete strangers. And nobody else queried them. So it felt a bit off when OkaPoka did. Not necessarily scum though.

[TrinityNZ]

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

My understanding of RVS is that it only involves one random vote, and then the next vote should be serious. So, why this second non-serious vote?

Oops. I didn’t realise there was a restriction on how many random votes you could do. Sorry. Should I unvote?

@trinityNZ

1) did you know you were rvs'ing and putting FF L-2 this early into the game?
2) is 64 sarcasm?[/quote]

1. Yes I was RVSing, no I didn’t know it was L-2
2. No

[TrinityNZ]

UNVOTE:


I'm shocked that no one pointed out that FF was at L-2 from RVS. It took 2 pages?

So far I'm leaning Town on trinity. I've seen her scum game..... this game she feels more natural.

I don’t understand the big deal about being L-2. I thought L-1 was the important one, as then it just takes one more to lynch. Why would you be shocked?

[TrinityNZ]

UNVOTE:


I'm shocked that no one pointed out that FF was at L-2 from RVS. It took 2 pages?

So far I'm leaning Town on trinity. I've seen her scum game..... this game she feels more natural.

I don’t understand the big deal about being L-2. I thought L-1 was the important one, as then it just takes one more to lynch. Why would you be shocked?

What do you think about like, stuff that's going on right now Trinity?

I’m still catching up on reading, there are a lot of posts! Will post soon.

[TrinityNZ]

yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo

VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her

Quite right, I don’t spend 24 hours a day on this site I will come in, read the posts, answer any questions, and do what I can in the time I have, and will then go and do real life stuff for a while. I think I’m also in a different time zone to everyone else. I don’t know if I’m allowed to say where I live?

You saying that I seem scummy for trying to participate the best I can, and not just lurking, makes me think you are the scummy one and looking for any excuse to vote for me.

Why would FF hate you for voting for me?

[TrinityNZ]

yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo

VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her

Quite right, I don’t spend 24 hours a day on this site I will come in, read the posts, answer any questions, and do what I can in the time I have, and will then go and do real life stuff for a while. I think I’m also in a different time zone to everyone else. I don’t know if I’m allowed to say where I live?

You saying that I seem scummy for trying to participate the best I can, and not just lurking, makes me think you are the scummy one and looking for any excuse to vote for me.

Why would FF hate you for voting for me?

[TrinityNZ]

You're allowed to say where you live but there is really no point.

I guess the point is just to give an idea of the time differences - your evening when you post a lot is usually when I’m at work, so I probably won’t be participating. It’s Saturday afternoon now, so I have some time

Yes, New Zealand

[TrinityNZ]

Sorry, not sure how I managed to post the same thing twice below.

Did I miss something - Messiah Complex is someone new?

Ok, so FF, I know my vote for you was initially a random one, but I’m now starting to think you might actually be mafia. You seem to be playing a completely different way in this game. You were really aggressive then -you were like a dog with a bone in grilling people. I know, because I was mafia, and you scared me. This game, you don’t seem to be doing that at all. You even said that you didn’t like how someone else ( I think Oka) was being aggressive. It’s just not ringing true for me, so I’m leaving my vote with you, it’s a real one now.

I was suspicious of iceman a few posts back, especially as FF was defending him, and I felt that the ‘voting IC’ post was a bit strange, but I’m happy with the explanation and his later posts, and so think he’s town.

I have scum leans towards OkaPoka, because of the scumread and vote on me, and also Flicker, and strong town lean towards Nancy. Eragon has been pretty active since coming on and has put in a lot of effort, so I’m reading town on him.

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity, lmao, your location is listed under your join date. We already know. I thought you meant like, saying you live in Christchurch or something lmao.

Ok so now you’re all thinking people from New Zealand are idiots! Lol. That’s funny though, I can’t see it under my join date, and I can’t see anybody else’s.

Wellington

[TrinityNZ]

Also um, the benefit of this being a forum thing is that like, you can post stuff when no one else is around and they can respond to it later. Ditto you responding to stuff later. You don't need to be present in the game at the same time as someone else to interact with them, it's a pretty cool deal tbh

Yes, true, it’s just that you were just asking me to post, and there were a couple of other comments from others about me not being around, so I’m just trying to manage expectations.

[TrinityNZ]

Also um, the benefit of this being a forum thing is that like, you can post stuff when no one else is around and they can respond to it later. Ditto you responding to stuff later. You don't need to be present in the game at the same time as someone else to interact with them, it's a pretty cool deal tbh

Yes, true, it’s just that you were just asking me to post, and there were a couple of other comments from others about me not being around, so I’m just trying to manage expectations.

Mmm, thank, I feel very managed

Sorry for the corporate speak

[TrinityNZ]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

To answer your question Nancy. When I’ve been rereading this afternoon, this post from Flicker sounded fake to me - like she was just making this up to try to put something on OkaPoka.

[TrinityNZ]

Basically I think there's a good chance of Scum in FF and Flicker, don't know why that is difficult to understand.

Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF.

[TrinityNZ]

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

OkaPoka, your trying hard to make me look bad says more about you than me. What do you think about that?

[TrinityNZ]

do you want me to evaluate my scumminess based on me scumreading you?

Lol, I guess what I was saying was that, is what you were saying really true? Or are you just trying to throw shade on me to take the heat off you?

[TrinityNZ]

Pretty sure I believe what I'm saying.

I'm throwing shade on you cuz I isod you.after abandoning Iceman case, think I found a decent scum chance here, hoping it would gain traction and yeah I guess I don't want to be lynched, but does anyone? As for the heat, I mean interacting directly.with others is the easiest way to develop reads on them for me

OK but you’re going down the wrong track with me, you should be directing your energies to someone who actually looks like scum. That’s why you’re looking a bit suspicious

[TrinityNZ]

Uhm. I don't understand this approach from you at all Trinity. What.

i guess I’m just not understanding why OkaPoka is scum reading me, I don’t think I’ve given any reasons for it. I’m suggesting that we instead look for the actual scum.

[TrinityNZ]

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

Nancy, in this posts oka said I’m not being proactive and I’m not trying to engage with others. I don’t think this is true.

[TrinityNZ]

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

Nancy, in this posts oka said I’m not being proactive and I’m not trying to engage with others. I don’t think this is true.

you think you are being real proactive in engaging with others?
alright i guess ill do a bigish post
9 answering nancy's rqs questions
10 making a jokey comment
11 rvs vote
44 another rvs vote that put ff at l2 which will be clarified later
62 trinity responds to nancy about rvs stuff
63 "I liked it"
64 more rvs things
67 maybe proactive? just seems to be a side comment
69 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
71 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
100 prompted by nancy
101 want clarification from nancy on reads
117 explaining why she has no scumreads, promises to do more investigating later
118 thanking nancy for explaining
119 clarifying when prompted by nancy
121 answering my questions
264 explaining why she doesn't believe l-2 to be a big deal
288 catching up post
293 i made a post! trinity says im scummy for thinking she is scummy and im looking for excuses to vote her but i mean yeah that's mafia, asks why ff would hate me for voting me, i clarify later, i guess it's proactive? but she is also just engaging a person who is voting her so it's more reactive.
294 double post
297 time zones
299 reads, does something semi-proactive which is making her rvs vote her permanent your sus vote. decent post i like it
301 fluff
302 fluff
307 fluff
308 answering questions
382 showing solidarity for someone who might vote ff
387 "proactive" question after i claim that she hasn't been proactive
391 clarifying her question
393 meh
395 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy
399 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy

has very few moments of proactive town moments, most of her posts are either fluff or reacting to other questions which is i guess is kinda normal. but the only real proactive/unique thing she has done is mark Formerfish as possible scum, but she has yet to really follow up on that and engage with formerfish. maybe if she builds a more solid case against ff and responds to some of the points ff makes in response to nancy's case and takes a more active stance in challenging FF ill move off this but for now I see this as scum who is sitting back and not wanting to heavily engage with people so the spotlight isn't on her.

Wow! Nice work. For me, that is being proactive and engaging with the game. You can throw heat on me if you want, I’m sure the real scum are loving it that the pressure is on someone else.

I’m waiting for FF to reply to me about his game playing being less aggressive than normal.

I like some of Iceman’s recent comments about Oka’s motivation. And love the ‘Nancy please come back to town’ comment.

I think you’re being a bit hard on quick though. It’s not easy coming into a game part-way through. I’ve done it on another game. He looked to me like he was trying at least.

[TrinityNZ]

No not you, IcemanCh.

[TrinityNZ]

I’m waiting for FF to reply to me about his game playing being less aggressive than normal.

I did?

Sorry, not sure how I managed to post the same thing twice below.

Did I miss something - Messiah Complex is someone new?

Ok, so FF, I know my vote for you was initially a random one, but I’m now starting to think you might actually be mafia. You seem to be playing a completely different way in this game. You were really aggressive then -you were like a dog with a bone in grilling people. I know, because I was mafia, and you scared me. This game, you don’t seem to be doing that at all. You even said that you didn’t like how someone else ( I think Oka) was being aggressive. It’s just not ringing true for me, so I’m leaving my vote with you, it’s a real one now.

I was suspicious of iceman a few posts back, especially as FF was defending him, and I felt that the ‘voting IC’ post was a bit strange, but I’m happy with the explanation and his later posts, and so think he’s town.

I have scum leans towards OkaPoka, because of the scumread and vote on me, and also Flicker, and strong town lean towards Nancy. Eragon has been pretty active since coming on and has put in a lot of effort, so I’m reading town on him.

Messiah Complex is an alt i play under with my brother. When i;m not paying attention i post from there occasionally. I will try not to have another slip here.

There is a difference between being overly aggressive towards someone over a small issue, and then there is what I do. I pick a person apart once they have put enough of themselves out there for me to get a hold of. Look at how I went after 2.8 in the last game. Once I had a bone I did go straight after him and wouldnt let up. Don't you see some similarities in what I am doing with Oka right now? Like, look at that game and figure out where it is that I started going after people. It wasn't on page 3. Comparing my play to what I said about Oka is disingenuous at best and scummy at worst. If this is the scum game you would have brought into a game with me you were right to kill me night 1.

Sorry, I missed it, so you did. OK, I do see what you’re saying. I was possibly overly sensitive to your posts in the last game as I had something to hide, so had an impression of you being pretty aggressive generally.

[TrinityNZ]

Eragon, I meant Iceman was being hard on Quick.

[TrinityNZ]

OK, I'm caught up, AMA

/S

Seriously though I really hate being blackmailed to catch up in a game. Shit is just not right.

In other news, not sold on FF being Town. He got early TRs from people and that seems to have stuck for not very good reasons I don't think. FF is a good player, not ready to clear them just based on... Whatever people were TRing him for, because from what I saw, didn't see a whole lot of Town tells and def felt like I was strongly disagreeing with some of the stuff he's said so far.

Quick, what’s /s and AMA? I can’t find them on the Wiki.

I’m liking your read on FF.

[TrinityNZ]

Nancy, what does ‘tilted’ mean?

[TrinityNZ]

Id like to know how exactly. He mentioned multiple times he wsnt going to catch up, and he caught some flack for that. Then the next thing we know he is doing isos and then is fully caught up. Like I said he could have not done that and still played the game, but instead he made a choice to listen to the group. I think that exploring how that happened is game relevant. And I dont like how he just skipped over the rest of the post which would help me understand where he was coming from if he could show some of the posts that helped him form his read on me.

That's fair. Am referring to the "Was it so hard to click that little Q button to focus on posts of mine you didnt like?" bit.

So @FF I think my issues with you come down to two basic things.

One is that I feel like your process has been pretty uneven. Early in the game you were spooling out a bunch of logic in how you were reading things, covering all the angles, and then you kind of just stopped doing that at a certain point? The first time you talked about your reads as a whole you barely had two sentences to say about them all, they didn't feel thought-through at all and that felt pretty wrong to me.

And when I look at the way you've been pushing Oka and now Quick, your logic feels a little sloppy and it doesn't super feel like you're actually trying to get a read on their alignment? Feels like you're just shoving on them and trying to sell your read with fire rather than actually believing that they're mafia and you have a correct read. I also haven't really seen any reassessment or doubt from at all on your Oka read and that's sorta concerning. I agree with Quick's feeling that it seemed like you were trying to antagonize him there while he was tilted and I think that's kinda scummy of you.

And like, your entire scumread on Oka is based on meta and I think that's scummy of you as well. I haven't seen you engage with Oka's content outside of the narrow scope of a meta take you on had on his early game.

The other is that I don't really know what you're doing to solve the game here. (This is kind of tied into the first thing about your process.) I don't think you've really gone over what your townreads are and why they are things and that's pretty concerning to me considering how active you've been. You have a PoE pool but I haven't seen any of the work that you've done in getting there or any of the work you've done to refine it or challenge it. Kinda just, yeah, would like to see more from you than the sort of agenda-y pushes that it feels to me like you've been doing for most of the game so far.

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

[TrinityNZ]

Nancy, what does ‘tilted’ mean?

Super upset and usually out of control.

Thanks

[TrinityNZ]

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

Not a snowball's chance lmao. Would bet the game that the team isn't ever FF/Quick.

It would be a clever thing to do though, right?

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity you're um, a really conflicted slot for me. I'm torn because I feel like the way you've been newbtelling has been towny but like, you make posts like 520 where I feel like you're completely unworried about certain people being mafia or your read being wrong, and your scumread on FF seems to just be that he's not playing as aggressively as usual which is like, okay? Sure, I guess, but you haven't really done anything to try to understand his mindset or read into his motivations anywhere and I'm just struggling to get a sense that you're trying to figure people out here.

I still just have no idea how to parse your response to Oka's push on you. Like, I've read your past games, I feel like you've shown in those games that you're aware that the type of logic you use in 391, 393 and 395 isn't reasonable or realistic at all, so I'm left just kind of going ??????? and can't really figure you out at all here.

I guess I’m just trying to find my way as a player. I have read every single word in this form and have done my best to contribute, but I guess I’m not as articulate as you or some of the others. You put my concerns about FF in a post a few minutes ago way better than I tried to say it.

Although I don’t agree that I’m not looking for motivations. For example, I read that Oka’s motivation in pushing on me was to take the heat off him, and that’s what I was saying, and also trying to get a reaction back. Why is that unreasonable and unrealistic? Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity you're um, a really conflicted slot for me. I'm torn because I feel like the way you've been newbtelling has been towny but like, you make posts like 520 where I feel like you're completely unworried about certain people being mafia or your read being wrong, and your scumread on FF seems to just be that he's not playing as aggressively as usual which is like, okay? Sure, I guess, but you haven't really done anything to try to understand his mindset or read into his motivations anywhere and I'm just struggling to get a sense that you're trying to figure people out here.

I still just have no idea how to parse your response to Oka's push on you. Like, I've read your past games, I feel like you've shown in those games that you're aware that the type of logic you use in 391, 393 and 395 isn't reasonable or realistic at all, so I'm left just kind of going ??????? and can't really figure you out at all here.

Also, you just kind of ducked out when I was questioning you about the Oka thing, which is really sketchy, and you haven't responded to my attempt to pick up on that again, which again, why, if you're town, are you avoiding that conversation?

Oh, I’m not avoiding anything, I think i must have missed it. I’ll see if I can find it what you asked.

[TrinityNZ]

Uhm. I don't understand this approach from you at all Trinity. What.

Nancy, was this a question? I’m not sure what approach you were referring to?

[TrinityNZ]

Uhm. I don't understand this approach from you at all Trinity. What.

i guess I’m just not understanding why OkaPoka is scum reading me, I don’t think I’ve given any reasons for it. I’m suggesting that we instead look for the actual scum.

Okay let's start here. What part about his scumread on you do you not understand?

OK, I found the question you asked. (A) If Oka is scum, I do understand why he’s looking for reasons to try to scum read me. (B) If he’s town, I don’t believe I look like mafia, as I think I have been contributing to the best of my ability to trying to find scum, and am very open (I think you called me guileless).

[TrinityNZ]

Uhm. I don't understand this approach from you at all Trinity. What.

i guess I’m just not understanding why OkaPoka is scum reading me, I don’t think I’ve given any reasons for it. I’m suggesting that we instead look for the actual scum.

Okay let's start here. What part about his scumread on you do you not understand?

OK, I found the question you asked. (A) If Oka is scum, I do understand why he’s looking for reasons to try to scum read me. (B) If he’s town, I don’t believe I look like mafia, as I think I have been contributing to the best of my ability to trying to find scum, and am very open (I think you called me guileless).

What I was trying to do was to have you walk me through your thought process, so that I could understand why you thought Oka's approach to you was scummy.

Like, step by step: why do I find it scummy for this person to scumread me? Because I think their reasons are wrong or bad? Okay, but are they blatantly misrepresenting anything? If you think something that you've done is obvious and they don't think it is, the only way you figure out what they think is by talking to them. You didn't talk to Oka, you just said "you have scummy motives" straight away, which is kinda sketch as an immediate reaction if there's nothing else going on in the background for you.

Okay, so if they're not blatantly misrepresenting anything, is it possible that they could believe their read on me, even though it's wrong? How are you going to figure that out? Read through their posts about you, look at your own posts, look at their other posts about other players, see if there's like, a huge mismatch anywhere.

If they're treating you wildly different than they're treating other players, like, giving one player a bunch of leeway but being super harsh on you, that's a sign their motives might be bad. But if they have a certain idea about how people should be playing, that idea shows up throughout their reads, including their read on you, that's a sign that maybe their read is actually genuine.

I hope that makes sense and isn't too many words!

Very helpful, thanks

[TrinityNZ]

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

Not a snowball's chance lmao. Would bet the game that the team isn't ever FF/Quick.

It would be a clever thing to do though, right?

Hum, I don't think so, no, not really. You'd just be bringing negative attention to both yourself and your mafia partner which isn't a good thing no matter how unaligned you might think you will look from it. Why?

@Trinity

I was just thinking it could be a clever tactic from two scum who might be trying to misdirect, and asking if anybody else agreed.

[TrinityNZ]

mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?

I’m trying to catch up on today’s posts, so will post something more later, but for now FF is still my biggest scum read. He’s really only been leaning on Oka, and not putting in the effort on others that I would have expected.

[TrinityNZ]

your case is wrong?

Point to me what's scummy and I'll rebut.

I guess lazy is a fair assessment of me, wouldn't say coaster tho, coasting would be sheeping onto nancy and going afk for the rest of the game.

And if you don't like my interactions with trinity, you do you i guess. I built my case on trinity and am voting her because i scumread her, I feel like she doesn't want to dirty her hands with lynches and as a result isn't engaging in a meaningful manner with people unless prompted to. 90% of her interactions are with nancy, who I'm pretty sure trinity isn't even trying to push. She isn't going out of her way to interact with others.

pedit: predicted and outsmarted also refer to the post you accidentally quoted

Oka, I’m trying to engage in a meaningful manner. Why do you think I don’t want to get my hands dirty with lynches, when I’ve said that I’ve voted FF? It started off as an RVS, but I changed it to a real vote. FF is still my strongest scum read, so I’m not sure why I would switch my vote to someone else at this point? I would happily be part of lynching him right now - we just need two more.

[TrinityNZ]

Talk to me about ff, write up a case with some evidence

OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.

My current thinking is:

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

UNVOTE: FormerFish

[TrinityNZ]

VOTE: OkaPoka

[TrinityNZ]

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

This is actually scary. For reasons. I will explain later, lmao.

OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.

I have FF and Oka as hard unaligned.

Does hard unaligned mean null?

[TrinityNZ]

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

This is actually scary. For reasons. I will explain later, lmao.

I hope scary in a good way, and not scary in a ‘OMG she’s the worst player ever’ way.

[TrinityNZ]

Talk to me about ff, write up a case with some evidence

OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.

My current thinking is:

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

UNVOTE: FormerFish

what are these poor answers to other questions?

You can call these poor answers if you want, but it’s my best shot, so take it or leave it. Trying to make me look bad isn’t working for you Oka. Town is on to you.

[TrinityNZ]

no im asking you what are the poor answers that i have made that you seem to dislike

Sorry, I got that wrong! I’m not disagreeing that I’m not defensive against you though

[TrinityNZ]

some people, including myself to an extent, feel that being overly defensive is indicative of scum alignment

Would it not be fair to say that town could be defensive too, perhaps if they’re feeling that their words are deliberately being twisted or they’re being made to look bad by scum trying to get a mislynch?

[TrinityNZ]

Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

You know 2.8 caught hella heat for using protocols as an excuse last game, are you intentionally trying to imitate that here?

No, that’s why I put the LOL at the end, and I thought it was more of a question than an excuse.

[TrinityNZ]

Im working on not throwing my vote around like Dirk Digler at a step class.

Best line ever! Thank you, you’ve made my day (which was pretty shitty).

[TrinityNZ]

mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?

I’m trying to catch up on today’s posts, so will post something more later, but for now FF is still my biggest scum read. He’s really only been leaning on Oka, and not putting in the effort on others that I would have expected.

What others should I be putting in work on and why do you expect me to be doing that?

This post of mine was superseded once I’d iso’d You and I am now thinking you’re town.

[TrinityNZ]

Spoiler: RE: Formerfish's 347

The votes moved from FF to Flicker and who FF and Flicker are voting for.

Not quite, VC1.02 has Oka, Ice and Trinity on me, but those are all RVS votes. VC1.03 still the same 3. 1.04 no change. 1.05 Oka and Ice change their vote and only trinity is left on.

Flicker wasnt even on the board til 1.04 when nancy and stan voted her. She finally voted in 1.05 for Oka, and I could see a possibility for a bus vote from her on her partner here. Especially if she thought it could put some distance between the two of them.

FF might have gotten caught early and then talked his way out of things.

Nothing to get caught from when the votes are all hellos of sorts. I guess I am a likeable guy and have played a lot of newbie games recently so I am a player that they are going to remember and poke during rvs.

That said, I have known him to be lynchbait

O rly? have we played together? Where have you seen me as lynchbait?

, but a really good player

totally correct here

, so I have a Null read on that dynamic of the game, however, because both Flicker and FF are voting the same person who seems to have produced a wagon out of nowhere seems pretty suspect to me.

Nah dont sweat it. Heres what I see. Either my read on Flicker is wrong, and she is pushing a legit scum read in Oka, which I also happen to share, or she is scum with him and she is trying to distance herself with a fake blow up between the two and then a bus vote. Like I said, I came to a scum read on Oka dependent on my own variables. If flicker is helping achieve the goals I want to, it doesnt matter what her alignment is yet.

I like how FF took the time to correct Quick's VCA here, both that he did it at all (I know he's got a little to gain, but not as much compared to me, a person he is scum reading) and the details he gave (they seem right). I also kind of like the mindset of why he's voting with me - it's not something I would do (vote with a scum read), but I understand his perspective.

Also, I feel like Formerfish and Quick aren't scum together, based on 380.

Am curious why you think this as well.

Briefly, since you've also come around to agreeing they're not scum - it felt like a weird thing for a scum partner to bring to the main thread. I feel like, if they were partners, FF would be disagreeing in their PT, like "Hey dude, could you at least read the thread a little? You're making yourself look bad lol" or something. Also, there's something about the way he phrased it - "can't begin to understand the game state as is" - that feels genuine and towny.

@flicker do you think one of quick/ff is scum?

At the point in the thread where you asked this, no, not really. If I had to pick one, I would have said Quick. Now... I don't know. I feel like Quick's emotional reactions could have been done by town or scum, and Formerfish could be responding like he is as town or scum, too. I almost want to say that Quick's reactions are

slightly

town, and Formerfish's poking (especially in 531)

might

be smug scum? But smugness isn't an exclusively scum trait, and it runs counter to my town read on FF, so... I don't know. ¯\_(:/)_/¯

This is actually pretty good analysis of my play style. Its mean to infuriate people a little, but it can be a volatile one as well. I like the thought that went into reading me.

[...] Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

@Formerfish

, didn't you say you had an issue with players who were too focused on rules and procedures and stuff? What do you think about this, and Trinity in general?

I dont love it, as I mentioned I think in a post a made myself. They were scum together and it was one of the things that tipped us to her partner being scum in that game. Lynched day 1, and then the remaining town lynched her day 2 for the win.

So you know I’m playing a completely different game to the last one right? I think I’m more honest and open, as I don’t have to lie and pretend to be town. And although I’m still nervous about looking like an idiot, I’m not worried about making mistakes as I have nothing to hide.

[TrinityNZ]

Spoiler: RE: Formerfish's 347

The votes moved from FF to Flicker and who FF and Flicker are voting for.

Not quite, VC1.02 has Oka, Ice and Trinity on me, but those are all RVS votes. VC1.03 still the same 3. 1.04 no change. 1.05 Oka and Ice change their vote and only trinity is left on.

Flicker wasnt even on the board til 1.04 when nancy and stan voted her. She finally voted in 1.05 for Oka, and I could see a possibility for a bus vote from her on her partner here. Especially if she thought it could put some distance between the two of them.

FF might have gotten caught early and then talked his way out of things.

Nothing to get caught from when the votes are all hellos of sorts. I guess I am a likeable guy and have played a lot of newbie games recently so I am a player that they are going to remember and poke during rvs.

That said, I have known him to be lynchbait

O rly? have we played together? Where have you seen me as lynchbait?

, but a really good player

totally correct here

, so I have a Null read on that dynamic of the game, however, because both Flicker and FF are voting the same person who seems to have produced a wagon out of nowhere seems pretty suspect to me.

Nah dont sweat it. Heres what I see. Either my read on Flicker is wrong, and she is pushing a legit scum read in Oka, which I also happen to share, or she is scum with him and she is trying to distance herself with a fake blow up between the two and then a bus vote. Like I said, I came to a scum read on Oka dependent on my own variables. If flicker is helping achieve the goals I want to, it doesnt matter what her alignment is yet.

I like how FF took the time to correct Quick's VCA here, both that he did it at all (I know he's got a little to gain, but not as much compared to me, a person he is scum reading) and the details he gave (they seem right). I also kind of like the mindset of why he's voting with me - it's not something I would do (vote with a scum read), but I understand his perspective.

Also, I feel like Formerfish and Quick aren't scum together, based on 380.

Am curious why you think this as well.

Briefly, since you've also come around to agreeing they're not scum - it felt like a weird thing for a scum partner to bring to the main thread. I feel like, if they were partners, FF would be disagreeing in their PT, like "Hey dude, could you at least read the thread a little? You're making yourself look bad lol" or something. Also, there's something about the way he phrased it - "can't begin to understand the game state as is" - that feels genuine and towny.

@flicker do you think one of quick/ff is scum?

At the point in the thread where you asked this, no, not really. If I had to pick one, I would have said Quick. Now... I don't know. I feel like Quick's emotional reactions could have been done by town or scum, and Formerfish could be responding like he is as town or scum, too. I almost want to say that Quick's reactions are

slightly

town, and Formerfish's poking (especially in 531)

might

be smug scum? But smugness isn't an exclusively scum trait, and it runs counter to my town read on FF, so... I don't know. ¯\_(:/)_/¯

This is actually pretty good analysis of my play style. Its mean to infuriate people a little, but it can be a volatile one as well. I like the thought that went into reading me.

[...] Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

@Formerfish

, didn't you say you had an issue with players who were too focused on rules and procedures and stuff? What do you think about this, and Trinity in general?

I dont love it, as I mentioned I think in a post a made myself. They were scum together and it was one of the things that tipped us to her partner being scum in that game. Lynched day 1, and then the remaining town lynched her day 2 for the win.

So you know I’m playing a completely different game to the last one right? I think I’m more honest and open, as I don’t have to lie and pretend to be town. And although I’m still nervous about looking like an idiot, I’m not worried about making mistakes as I have nothing to hide.

[TrinityNZ]

@formerfish what are your reads on trinity/iceman/eragon?

Scum lean, town lean, null town.

Something in her post just seem desperate to me. I know nancy has a strong town read here, but its just not there for me. The push on me is a bad one since she is using meta for the most part and the meta isnt accurate.

I like the way Iceman plays, it reminds me a lot of myself as a younger town player. He says whats on his mind and lays in the bed he makes when he has to answer for something. I also see a progression in him from the games weve played. This is where I see his town game now from the last 2, I dont see him as scum here.

Eragon, a lot of what he posts seems perfunctory. Other things show good signs. Wouldnt lynch here today.

I’m not pushing on you any more remember? I had another look at your posts and thought I might be wrong. After reading more tonight, I’m liking what I’m seeing and I’m thinking you are definitely town.

[TrinityNZ]

@quick, current read on trinity/iceman/eragon?

Trinity is *probably* Town. I sense newb Townness a lot there. Trinity has stuck to their guns when it hasn't been optimal to do so and, no offence to them, but I don't think they have the experience to play this way as Scum.

Ice is a tentative Town Lean. I think his process for getting reads is mostly wrong, but that doesn't mean he is Scum. Instead, I am leaning that he's just new to trying to come up with Reads. This is exemplified by the fact that he is used to playing in big games with lots of roles, which would make play based reads a weak point for him.

Eragon is probably Null/Null Scum for me atm. Not a high priority for me rn. I haven't had a lot of opportunities to engage with him in real time, and that's kinda what I am waiting for to get a better read on him. WhyMafia makes some good points on Eragon, but at the same time, that could just be playstyle.

No offence taken

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null

What sort of content would you like to see from me?

[TrinityNZ]

wow! contradiction! lets lynch her now

@nancy do you think there is a strong chance that one of ff/me is scum?

Oka, which post were you referring to here?

[TrinityNZ]

Talk to me about ff, write up a case with some evidence

OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.

My current thinking is:

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

UNVOTE: FormerFish

Nancy, I was referring to what I’d said about FF in this post.

[TrinityNZ]

Im working on not throwing my vote around like Dirk Digler at a step class.

Best line ever! Thank you, you’ve made my day (which was pretty shitty).

Hugs. Mine sucked too.

Help me see how you got to town on FF?

Thanks, hugs to you too

[TrinityNZ]

Briefly, it would be something about how catching up and interacting with other people is sort of the bare minimum for any player, with maybe a side of "Are you sure you're not just town reading him for having a similar posting/play style?" depending on how salty I felt. (Admittedly, I also sometimes town read people based on having a similar posting/play style, which is another thing I'm trying to work on.)

I like that Oka asked the question that prompted this response, and I dislike the response. I don't think it makes very much sense for town to be salty about someone getting a townread on someone else unless you scumread the person they're townreading, and I quickly checked Flicker's posts for her stance on Quick and she seems to have him as slightly town, so, this reaction from her doesn't make sense to me if she's town.

I never said I had Quick as a slight town read, though. I said maybe, if I had to choose which of Quick and Formerfish was town in a TvS situation, I'd say Quick, but that was such a weak read I capped it off with "I don't know" and a big shrug emoji.

And I would have been salty because I feel like I've been putting in a lot of work and not getting townread. It doesn't have anything to do with me disagreeing with the read.

I can't make heads or tails of the Flicker post. I can't tell if it's just that she's a newb and is reading into things in a really strange way or if it's that she has a ton of TMI and I don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to try right now.

@Flicker I really need you to be more present. You have less posts than the mod right now and that's really not okay. I really need more from you here because I think you might be mafia and there's just enough for me to go off to see that you're town if you are here. You don't have to make wallposts. Your posts don't have to be truthbombs or full of gems. Just a bit of thread presence and sharing your thoughts on things that are happening would go a long way.

I'm gonna be honest, the first time I read this it really hurt my feelings. I said in my intro post that I'm lower activity and tend towards wallposts, and I feel like you're just attacking me based on my play style and the fact that I can't post when you're around (which is basically 100% when I'm asleep). I'm also not trying to post "truthbombs" or anything like that, I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible.

FWIW, my posting window right now is between 10 AM CDT and 2 PM CDT, and the only person who's been around during that time is Oka, whom I've engaged with a little - clearly not enough for you, but I am trying. I guess I could also try posting in the evening, when Formerfish and Quick seem to always get on, but usually I'm busy or I've depleted my energy for playing mafia earlier in the day. I can make more of an effort to break up my wall posts into more manageable chunks, but I'm not gonna upend my life for this, so if you just wanna policy lynch me for not playing well enough or whatever, go ahead.

I like this post from you Flicker, it seems open and also expresses some of how I’m feeling too. I for one would appreciate shorter posts as i can’t seem to be able concentrate properly on the long ones

[TrinityNZ]

TRINITY! I need some quotes in which you think I've made some bad responses to some questions posed by others that you find so horrible. I also want you to go in detail why my case on you is weak.

I’m not one for a lot of detail, but I’ll try once I get through the 7 pages of posts that I have to read!

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null

What sort of content would you like to see from me?

Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null

What sort of content would you like to see from me?

Hmm. Can you elaborate on your switch from FF? What specifically caused you to slowly change your mind about FF? What are some other general observations you made about slots? Individually I like your posts. However, I in the grand scheme, you seem to be ... kinda aimless? I don't see you doing anything meaningful per say. I don't see your thirst to figure out if your SR on Oka is correct. I guess ... I don't see your motivations, if that makes sense? Because you're active on the thread, but I don't see you stirring up the pot.

With FF, it was just when I did an iso, and read though all of his posts together, that I realised that I hadn’t noticed his posts properly. I think I’d just noticed the posts he’d directed at me, and the ones directed at others didn’t sink in as much for some reason. So I don’t think I slowly changed my mind, it was a growing sense as I read the iso.

I am trying to contribute as best I can, and believe me, I am frustrated that I can’t seem to find the right way to do it and am coming under criticism. I’m a person who makes quick decisions, and am not always the best at explaining them. I’m also impatient. I have felt like my SR on Oka is correct, and just wanted to get the voting out of the way to see if I’m right.

The longer the game goes on, the more I can see the value in all of this discussion before N1, as what people say here will be used against them in future days, and I’m looking forward to that, and hopefully can do some good pot stirring then!

[TrinityNZ]

Town is on to you.

I think its the comments like this that come off as desperate to me. Like someone trying to fit in based off 80's information. Like it seems legit, but something is off about it.

FF, this was just me trying to be funny. I guess it failed.

[TrinityNZ]

mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?

I’m trying to catch up on today’s posts, so will post something more later, but for now FF is still my biggest scum read. He’s really only been leaning on Oka, and not putting in the effort on others that I would have expected.

What others should I be putting in work on and why do you expect me to be doing that?

This post of mine was superseded once I’d iso’d You and I am now thinking you’re town.

That doesnt change my question. At the point in time you made this post you felt like I should be putting in effort on certain people. Who and why?

I’m sorry FF, I can’t remember what I was thinking when I wrote that.

[TrinityNZ]

TRINITY! I need some quotes in which you think I've made some bad responses to some questions posed by others that you find so horrible. I also want you to go in detail why my case on you is weak.

in case this gets ignored, @TRINITY

I will do some clarification, in this post:

Talk to me about ff, write up a case with some evidence

OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.

My current thinking is:

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

UNVOTE: FormerFish

You mark me as a scum lean because of first I have an alleged weak case against you and I have also responded poorly to questions other people have posed.
So what I want is for you to first, explain why you believe that my case is terrible and scummy.
I also want you, more importantly, to quote some of these poor responses I have made in response to other questions and I want you to explain why each of these poor answers are so garbage and thus scummy.

Wow. Give me a chance, I’m in a different time zone to you remember. I can’t reply immediately.

[TrinityNZ]

Gotta admit though it's pretty discomforting how she just keeps missing stuff in thread. Like, this keeps happening. Are you just not reading every post or something Trinity?

Nancy, I was referring to what I’d said about FF in this post.

Okay, so you think he's town because you think that Oka is mafia and that FF and Oka are never mafia partners?

What if you're wrong, and Oka is town?

@Trinity

Yep, I’m reading every post. By the time I read everything, I don’t have time to answer all the questions. Yes, I could be wrong. I actually just had a thought about Oka that might make me re-evaluate, so I will post on that later, but first I’m trying to get through the 7 pages that have appeared since I was here last.

[TrinityNZ]

getting a townread on me is not important as long as there is a better lynch today

God I read this post again and I'm like.

This is, to a T, 100%, exactly what scum mindset looks like.

All scum need each dayphase is to dodge the lynch, be a little more town than someone else, make someone else look scummier than they are.

I just don't know whether OkaPoka is actually scum for saying it.

Like, can he really be having that thought as town here? Can he honestly think that it's not important for me or anyone else to get a townread on him?

It's like, kind of inherent to our condition as town to want to be townread. We don't like people thinking we're mafia, getting our alignment wrong. It feels bad. But Oka just... doesn't care?

This is like. Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf type territory, which is all through his ISO, not just this post. And at a certain point I think like... well, maybe he is actually just a wolf?

Ugh.

I would actually have to completely disagree with this being a scum mindset, because this isn't how I would play scum. I just recently played a newbie-scum game if you want to meta dive me and verify this.
Scum wants to dodge lynches yes that is true, but scum also aren't playing to merely just nearly avoid being the most scummy because that is simply a risk not worth taking. People in this game are rarely consistent and they are also rarely completely rational players, thus in order to dodge a lynch, the primary goal of scum would be not to appear a bit more townie, but the most townie because otherwise the swing of town might still end up with a lynch on a null!OkaPoka.

Yeah it is inherent as town to want to be townread, but it isn't nor should it be the primary concern of town to be the towniest of them all. That's scum wincon, scum doesn't need lynches to win, they just need to make sure town either mislynches, or fails to lynch and they can solve the game based on NK's. Meanwhile town has to make sure finding scum is their primary concern because ultimately without successful lynches, town loses every time. We are also playing a semi-openish setup that does not give a guarantee on investigative roles to help sole the game, nor do we have town killing roles to allow town to not need lynches to win.

In an extreme vacuum, a town that has their primary concern in making the appearance of being townie will lose every game. There needs to be at least some people who are making their whole effort hunting scum because we can't just rely on PRs to win this game for us. In a game in which town has their primary concern of being townie, they will lose because scum are also doing the same, and it makes the job of scumhunting much more difficult because to an extent, everyone is acting rather than being themselves. When everyone is composed and trying to act like town, they are acting rather than trying to win, and then the game will devolve into who can be the best actor.

Literally nobody wants to be scumread in this game, and it's not like I don't care about being scumread, it's just not worth as much time to act town when I could be selfishly developing reads on others and trying to figure things out.

The difference between scum!Oka and town!Oka is town!Oka is being genuine while scum!Oka wants to come across as genuine. I can see why you want to help me out by telling me why I should try and make an effort to appear more townie, but I think that can ultimately be somewhat detrimental advice as town shouldn't concern themselves with acting town. I find it more difficult as scum to develop genuine reads not only because I know everyone's alignment and I have ulterior motives, but because while I am in the act of appearing town, I have to tone down the aggressiveness in developing my reads and challenging other people's ideas.

I think it is a given that everyone reacts more hostile-y to people who scumread them and are pushing them, thus then the optimal play if your end goal is to be townie is to never push, never interact on a deeper level, and never challenge other people's reads. By caring so much about other people's reads on you, what ends up happening is you simply ask superficial questions and lend support to whoever you want to suck up to. You let other people game solve for you.

Okay and there is a point behind all of this, it's not just to respond to nancy's assertions.
I think this is exactly what Trinity is doing, she is being superficial and wants to give off a vibe of genuine townieness.
I don't think I need to quote examples, if you want them I will, but a lot of her posts feel like they won't go anywhere. She is overly nice with people, which could just be her personality, but what I fear is she is trying to play nice to get townread. She is rubbing shoulders with nancy(the obvtown player) a lot, and to an extent it's useless. Let's examine the game from her perspective.

Most people are marking nancy as town, she is too, obvious by 671 if you want an example, so why does she keep interacting with nancy so much? There is no need to develop reads on people you so solidly read town when you have others in which you have giant question marks over. Unless you want to inflate your post count, unless you don't want to give offense to others by hinting that you may be hostile to them, unless you don't actually care about developing genuine reads, you just want the obv town to like you and not lynch you.

Look at trinity's questions she is posing and attempting to make an attempt at interacting with others, I mean does she have a larger path with these questions? Does she have a greater point she wants to prove or expand on? I am getting the vibe that most of her questions directed towards people don't really have much direction to go, they serve no real purpose other than to make herself seem more townie, because that is her primary concern as scum.

Look all the posts Trinity has made, maybe one or two posts have some genuine direction in which they can go and she can develop upon. If we are being generous.
But most of these posts are either her trying to be friendly, or her trying to clarify herself and say look at me I am so townie XOXO.
I mean does trinity even have a desire to solve this game? I'm getting the feeling the answer to that is no.
We'll see though.

Not quite sure how to answer all this. Perhaps try to imagine I’m town for a minute and that I’m spending hours and hours on this game because do actually want to solve it. And that I’ve spent the most time interacting with Nancy because she has been helpful and I’m new. If I was scum, I don’t know why I would spend time interacting with Nancy, I’d be avoiding her like the plague, as I’m not experienced enough to outsmart her.

[TrinityNZ]

Town is on to you.

I think its the comments like this that come off as desperate to me. Like someone trying to fit in based off 80's information. Like it seems legit, but something is off about it.

I agree with this, btw, but I kinda think it's just the way she talks.

Its going to be hard for me to read trinity this game. She only has 1 in and it was a scum game. I just dont remember her speaking like this last game and in the back of my mind im thinking she is going overboard acting townie because she thinks its going to hide her when it just makes her stick out.

Yes! I am way more confident and flippant in this game.
You have a point. She wasn't as confident or flippant about things. I don't know though cause it kind of makes me want to say trinity is town.

[TrinityNZ]

Oka, you asked for examples, so here’s a couple of things:

First, you said this:

Typically speaking, you should at least check in once every 24 hours at the bare minimum to comment on things, answer questions, or ask questions, but as the deadline gets closer, it is good to increase your posting and be more active, especially if no real lynch candidates have been presented imo.

Then, you said this about me to start reading me in scum, even though I was doing exactly what you said in the post above. And this seems to be the only reason you have for reading me as scum. I just don’t think it’s a good enough reason. It’s like you’re clutching at straws. you even noted you didn’t have any questions for me. And since this post, you’ve been constantly on my case.

yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo

VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her

Below is an example of another post from you I didn’t like. I couldn’t see why you would ask this question.

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Having spent about the last two hours reading recent posts, and responding, I’m coming to the conclusion that you might not be mafia after all. I think your push on me is so strong, that if I am mislynched, you would look really suspicious because your push has been so strong, and I don’t think you are that stupid. I think if you were mafia you would have been easing back a bit on me and letting others do the work. So after all that, I’m reading you as town now.

UNVOTE: OkaPoka

I have no idea who to vote for now, that will have to be tomorrow’s job, I’ve spent too much time here tonight already.

I hope I’ve answered everyone’s questions.

[TrinityNZ]

@Trinity, when you have the chance, please talk about why you posted 1008, please, in as much detail as possible, talk about your FF read and your Oka read and how both of those reads have evolved for you over the course of the day so far, and please talk about who think is mafia right now and why.

SorryI haven’t had a chance to do this yet - I will though.

[TrinityNZ]

I’ve gone off Oka as scum because I thought he was going too hard on me and I realised if he was scum he probably wouldn’t want to do that so blatantly, because when I flip town he would immediately be suspected.

@IceMan, these are the thoughts I had on FF earlier, but I talked myself out of it. I might have to have another look. I’m really struggling to know what to do next. Maybe look at quick, as Nancy suggested.

I still strongly TR Nancy but realise she could be being really smart, but would prefer to look at that in day 2 rather than day 1.

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity is creeping up on me as being Scummy now. It seems whenever Trinity is asked something, they completely disappear. Very suspect.

@nancy, what do you mean when you say I am not doing anything? I feel like I have been pushing my SRs just fine, offering my reasoning on why I TR the people I do. What do you want from me?

Hey Quick, I mentioned before you arrived that I’m in a different time zone, so usually do disappear when most other people are on. I usually get around to answering questions the next time I’m on.

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity, please answer my questions for you?

Sorry Nancy, I’m just not having much time on here at the moment due to family reasons, but I promise I’ll do it tonight (my time), so in a few hours.

[TrinityNZ]

@Trinity, when you have the chance, please talk about why you posted 1008, please, in as much detail as possible, talk about your FF read and your Oka read and how both of those reads have evolved for you over the course of the day so far, and please talk about who think is mafia right now and why.

Ok, so I think that post was a mistake as I didn’t put a comment or reply on it. I use an iPad or phone so unfortunately do make a lot of mistakes.

In relation to FF, I started off thinking he wasn’t being the same FF I knew from my previous game, where I’d thought he was more aggressive. When I did an iso, I saw that he had been more aggressive than I’d given him credit for, so withdrew my SR.

In relation to Oka, first of all I thought - he must be scum trying to get a mislynch because I know I am town and so how could he possibly be trying to make a case against me? And he kept at it. So I thought he must be Mafia. The I had a kind of a light bulb moment where I thought, if I am lynched, everyone will see straight away that I’m town. And then, you will be looking back through the day 1 posts, and you would see tha Oka was on my case relentlessly for some time. This wouldn’t look good for Oka, as he would be seen as scum immediately. So, I thought, nobody is that stupid, so therefore, Oka is town. So that’s where I currently am.

Hope this answers your questions and makes sense as I’ve had a few wines

[TrinityNZ]

You left out the last part: please talk about who you think is mafia right now and why.

That’s hard, I really don’t know right now, I’m confused.

[TrinityNZ]

You left out the last part: please talk about who you think is mafia right now and why.

That’s hard, I really don’t know right now, I’m confused.

It's okay if you're not sure. Just give it your best shot.

Here is everyone alive:
IcemanCh
Eragon
WhyMafia
Flicker
TrinityNZ
Quick
OkaPoka
Formerfish
nancy

Start with which people you think are town, then put them aside, and look at who is left.

You don't have to have a super confident scumread or anything like that. But from your perspective, if you're town, you absolutely need to lynch someone today, and you want that person to be mafia. So you have to figure this out. Who do you want to lynch?

This is my order from town to mafia:

Nancy
IceMan
OkaPoka
WhyMafia
Flicker
Formerfish
Quick
Eragon

I could lynch any of the last three.

[TrinityNZ]

So Trinity. Is the main reason you switched on Oka is because of his relentless push on you? That he wouldn't risk it as town? Because by that logic, as scum, couldn't he do that, and undertake that defense? That's just WIFOM (Hope I used that correctly ;P ). Knowing that you'd town read him bc no scum would be that brazen sounds like a wonderful idea for scum to just do it anyway

Yes, you could be right, this is one reason why I’m feeling so confused right now, the longer this day goes on, the more confused I get.

[TrinityNZ]

@Trinity I dunno what to say honestly, it's not really good enough to just list names in an order, you have to be able to talk about why those names are ordered the way they are. Like, you were able to talk about FF and Oka at least to some degree, that fact that you're completely unable to articulate any form of a scumread on anyone else at this point is super super worrying. You've also got FF in your lynch pool which is ???, you have stated a townread on FF, please explain how that makes sense.

I was planning on voting Oka this morning when I woke up but after Trinity's recent posting I'm kinda torn. In the world where Trinity is mafia then her flip would clear Oka and that's not a small thing. In the world where she's town then I want to lynch Oka pretty much always but my townread on her isn't as strong as it was and if I think there's a realistic chance of Trinity being mafia then I'm kind of inclined to give that read more time to develop and just put Trinity/Oka aside until tomorrow.

I think I want to lynch Quick the most at this point. There's just so much scum motivation in the way that he's been treating the Oka wagon and I've been mostly turning a blind eye to it but I don't think I can anymore. He's also just not doing anything this game and generally speaking that's never a bad type of slot to lynch on day 1.

@Everyone please share with the class who you would be willing to lynch today.

I think my lynch preference for today is Quick->Eragon->FF.

Lol I thought you were just asking for a list I will try and do more.

[TrinityNZ]

@Trinity I dunno what to say honestly, it's not really good enough to just list names in an order, you have to be able to talk about why those names are ordered the way they are. Like, you were able to talk about FF and Oka at least to some degree, that fact that you're completely unable to articulate any form of a scumread on anyone else at this point is super super worrying. You've also got FF in your lynch pool which is ???, you have stated a townread on FF, please explain how that makes sense.

I was planning on voting Oka this morning when I woke up but after Trinity's recent posting I'm kinda torn. In the world where Trinity is mafia then her flip would clear Oka and that's not a small thing. In the world where she's town then I want to lynch Oka pretty much always but my townread on her isn't as strong as it was and if I think there's a realistic chance of Trinity being mafia then I'm kind of inclined to give that read more time to develop and just put Trinity/Oka aside until tomorrow.

I think I want to lynch Quick the most at this point. There's just so much scum motivation in the way that he's been treating the Oka wagon and I've been mostly turning a blind eye to it but I don't think I can anymore. He's also just not doing anything this game and generally speaking that's never a bad type of slot to lynch on day 1.

@Everyone please share with the class who you would be willing to lynch today.

I think my lynch preference for today is Quick->Eragon->FF.

Lol I thought you were just asking for a list I will try and do more.

[TrinityNZ]

Okay that's a fair criticism of a difference in play between here and my other town games. I have been a lot more jumpy on my reads this game than usual resulting in some interesting flip flops.

I mean if a scum player marks 3 people as town like he was forming a town bloc.

My lynch order is not set right now, I am seeking a formerfish response to my iceman vote and see his take on the game before I do anything drastic. I have some reads and thoughts that are going to hinge on how Formerfish responds and it will develop some reads outside of my Formerfish read. Also want to see if Trinity ever responds to my posts because I feel like I'm getting CJ'd.

Oka, I have responded to you as much as I’m going to for now.

[TrinityNZ]

So Trinity. Is the main reason you switched on Oka is because of his relentless push on you? That he wouldn't risk it as town? Because by that logic, as scum, couldn't he do that, and undertake that defense? That's just WIFOM (Hope I used that correctly ;P ). Knowing that you'd town read him bc no scum would be that brazen sounds like a wonderful idea for scum to just do it anyway

Yes, you could be right, this is one reason why I’m feeling so confused right now, the longer this day goes on, the more confused I get.

After more thinking about this, I’m going to vote for Oka. I have flip flopped a couple of times with Oka. I started off thinking he was scum because of his tenacious and strong (and what I saw as unfounded) push on me, as an easy target. Then I thought that he wouldn’t do that as scum, because it would look too obvious. But yes, I agree this could be WIFOM, and it makes sense, so I’m putting my vote back on him.

I’m also having similar doubts about FormerFish. Again, I started off thinking he was mafia, and then changed my mind. Now I’m leaning back towards him being scum as he’s not feeling to me like he’s really in the game as much as he should be, and taking a bit of back seat and letting others do the scum hunt work, which doesn’t seem like him.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: OkaPoka I think that’s L-1

[TrinityNZ]

This is my order from town to mafia:

Nancy
IceMan
OkaPoka
WhyMafia
Flicker
Formerfish
Quick
Eragon

I could lynch any of the last three.

So, you went from scum reading me, to not, and then say that I am included in a pool of 3 to be lynched...

Yes, see my last post - I can’t make up my mind on you!

[TrinityNZ]

@TRINITY CLAIM

also answer my questions please

I am town. Just because I’m not very good at playing this game, I’m being mistakenly read as scum. I guess it’s my own fault, but that doesn’t make it right. Oka I’m not answering any more questions from you, I’ve already said.

[TrinityNZ]

That was directed at Nancy
@eragon why trinity?

because they are my top SR, one reason(and one of the bigger ones) is that they have no progression on there reads, and yes, it might seem like a bit of an OMGUS, but they dont MENTION my name one between putting me from Lean Town to Null to Top Scum

Eragon, you’re right, I didn’t have a good reason, I think I put you at the bottom of the list because I had had no interaction with you, as you haven’t been around much. I know you’ve been on V/LA but it seems like it’s been a really long time, and at a convenient time, so almost looks like you were trying to absent yourself from the Day 1 lynch, which did seem to me like a tactic a mafia would use. If I survive today, I hope to interact with you more.

[TrinityNZ]

I’ve been out for dinner, just got home. My role is Vanilla Townie.

[TrinityNZ]

Quick, preflip associations happen when person C says that person B is mafia because person A is mafia and they seem like partners, but person A has not flipped, C is just convinced that A is mafia. Looking at a wagon and noticing that your scumreads are on the wagon and deciding that you're not comfortable helping someone who you explicitly

do not trust to the point that you want to kill them

to kill someone else has exactly nothing to do with that.

How on earth are you okay with lynching someone when you don't even have a good idea of what they have done this game? This is literally way too late to be thinking about the game "off the cuff". You are lynching someone. That means they're dead. Forever.

Why can't Trinity be voting Oka because she thinks he's mafia? "Opportunistic" is just a buzzword. It doesn't mean anything. What does "breaking the pattern of OMGUS reads" mean and how is that mafia indicative?

What do you think about her claim?

Well, that's how I play. I don't "count" on my SRs being correct before a lynch. I've said my prefered lynch, not much more I can do about it.

Newbs are generally pretty easy for me to read so I don't feel the need to pour hours into ISOing them.

Opportunistic isn't a buzzword to me. It a legit thought process. Voting opportunistically is when someone votes in a way that looks like there is a good chance for either a wagon to form on that person or there is a good chance of a lynch on that person.. It's about getting to the vote quickly without much reason given. I don't come from a place where "buzzwords" are a thing. As far as "breaking the pattern of OMGUS reads" goes, part of my reads come from what I call narrative that people set the tone of for their play. When they do something that is out of alignment with that narrative, it's Scummy. For example, if you were to all the sudden say you are never changing your reads for the rest of the game, that would be Scummy af to me because you have already changed your reads a million times. This does tie into my read on Trinity in that, I feel previously, Trinity's reads were very much OMGUSsy in nature. Where I am getting this from is their read on me and how it developed. It developed because I SR her. That was the reason for her SR on me. I didn't get that same feel for Trinity's vote on Oka. Instead, what I saw was a VC with Oka at like L-2 at the time and Trinity coming out of the woodwork to put Oka at L-1. My read on Trinity is what I call an Occam's Razor read. I have developed a system for categorizing players into 4 different types with 2 different options of 2 things. I can share it if you want, but not inclined to atm unless asked. Traditionally when people think of Occam's Razor they think of the rule of thumb that the simplest explanation is the correct one. The way I think about it is the process to which people develop reads. In this case I am using some concrete data (that isn't open to interpretation) to inform me of the motivation behind Trinity's play. The information I am looking at is what I just described.. There was a VC, then Trinity voted to put someone at L-1. And that is what I am using to inform my read on Trinity.

Quick, your comments that you find newbies pretty easy to read, and that you have a system for categorising players that places me as scum are going to look pretty silly when I’m confirmed as town. It might be back to the drawing board for your categorisiation system

These comments are actually feeling a bit scummy to me, as once I’m confirmed as town you can then backtrack and say that something didn’t work right in your system, so you can use that as an excuse.

[TrinityNZ]

Everytime town get's their footing BAM it's gone.

I see your point on these posts. She has looked pretty strongly town, but might just be very clever and have pulled the wool over our eyes.

[TrinityNZ]

@trinity, who is your top scumread at the current moment? Top townread?

Top townread is Nancy. I keep second guessing myself with my scum reads and changing my minds, but probably you at the moment.

[TrinityNZ]

Well make that a double intent.

I don't think she's scum. I think I've lost interest in pursing Oka as scum. For now. I think I have other questions.

UNVOTE:

Why have you lost interest in Oka? Now would be the time as we’re so close to this mislynch on me.

[TrinityNZ]

baited.

why did you answer that question but not my other question(s)? ( i just want understand your mindset if you do flip town )

LOL. So clever.

I’ve said several times that I had answered the question as much as I was going to, but you’re still going on about it, and trying to use this as a reason that others should lynch me. This is what makes you look scummy to me.

[TrinityNZ]

We can add Flicker to the list of need to be sorted tomorrow.

Why tomorrow, and not today?

[TrinityNZ]

@Quick

I think you're null-scum. Part of that might just be playstyle difference, partly I might have read too much into your early posts.

If Trinity flips town, I'm worried about the people I might have given too much towncred that could actually be scum, or if that's just paranoia from my first newbie game (where one of the scum team was pretty strongly townread across the board, and only on D3 by throwing out my reads and just looking at associations did I think he could be scum).

P-edit: My reads haven't changed from 1143, other than to move Trinity and maybe WhyMafia to null.

Flicker, it seems that you did a complete 180 on your read on me, and I’m not sure why, other than you;’re scum just getting on this convenient wagon. If you’re town, please have another look at me and make your own mind up!

[TrinityNZ]

@trinity, but your answer is not satisfactory nor does it fit your own requirements. That is why I want evidence, and you aren't providing. It's a good reason to lynch you because you are acting in the interest of town by answering my question or providing proper evidence.

We sort Flicker tomorrow because I feel like a lot of her alignment is going to depend on your flip, and I don't want to derail my primary scumread's wagon so we can find out whether flicker is town or not today.

Oka if you’re town, I have deep respect for your tenacity. I just wish you were spending this much effort looking in other directions. If you’re scum, then I understand why.

[TrinityNZ]

I still have a sick feeling in my stomach putting someone to L-1

VOTE: Trinity

This is L-1. No more votey

Eragon, you’ve been on V/LA, so do you feel that you have a really good read on me as scum? If not, please have another look, as this wagon on me is going to end in a mislynch. If you’re town, you will care about that.

[TrinityNZ]

Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and

poor answers to questions others have asked

.

Trinity, would you mind quoting one or two of Oka's answers that you thought were poor around that time please?

I did reply with some quotes a while ago - I haven’t been able to find any others.

[TrinityNZ]

that happened in 1879 too.

the newbie slots always replace out as scum

Not always. I was scum in my very first game (to my dismay though, I must admit!)