Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Eragon]

Ummm I think I can post now...


I'll read the thread once I'm off mobile, sorry.


AMA about my history of FM

[Eragon]

First order of business, do not communicate with anyone in this game or not in this game about this game. That means don't send any other player in the game a PM, don't talk to anyone else who plays mafia about the game on Discord, don't talk about the game on sitechat, don't mention the game in other games, and so on. Read the board announcement about this, thoroughly, please.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30909

Please read the game rules post before you start playing. If you have any questions about the rules, or about your role, ask the moderator. Don't say what your role is or post your role PM or any other mod communication in the game thread. I am here to answer game mechanics- or theory-related questions and I will answer them truthfully regardless of my alignment, you can trust me on that because it's part of the rules of being an IC.

To start off I'd appreciate it if everyone answered a few questions:

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game?
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why?

I'll start off.

1) normally depends on my WIM and availability, so id say expect a fair amount of activity but not overboard.
maybe like 5-10 posts every RL day.

2. I've played FM on my homesite, ToS Forums, and a couple games on MU, along with 2 ongoing games here. if you want me to show you my top town game and top scum game just lmk.

3. I really like playing town because I feel more relaxed and comfortable and it just, feels better to me.

[Eragon]

Oops sorry for it being in the quote, my responses are the bottom 3


Also I gtg for a few hours expect me to come back in about 7 hours

[Eragon]

off mobile catching up now

[Eragon]

I skimmed the whole first page because its just RQS/RVS

[Eragon]

Sarge, how much to you is too much posting or too little posting?

If I can recall correctly, I posted on average about 4-6 times per day on one marathon game.
For me at the moment, I wouldn't post something unless it provides insight or contributes somewhat to everyone is doing.
Even with this though I got called out for posting too little on the third day, so I guess that amount of posting is too little.

Typically speaking, you should at least check in once every 24 hours at the bare minimum to comment on things, answer questions, or ask questions, but as the deadline gets closer, it is good to increase your posting and be more active, especially if no real lynch candidates have been presented imo.

I dont really like people announcing they won't post very much, it seems like a good way to announce your going to slack
Kinda like "OH GUYS! I only post 4-6 times a day so dont scum read me based on me never being around alright cool im also town!"
(edited for artistic purposes)

I like Oka's response, it feels natural to me, its not much to go on but I am starting to lean town

[Eragon]

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

lol. I agree with whoever said it, but

I think scum would be more careful about their posts, so this leans towny

[Eragon]

Im going to be putting these in spoilers to make it easier to read

Spoiler:

Mostly because they are newer and have 1 post in so far. I don't like the post and it's something I would like to engage her on, but until she gets back in here and posts more I can't do that.

1 post that's not quite good does not a scumbag make.

1 post is all it takes to make a scum slip

sometimes you need to read someone based on one post

Mostly because they are newer and have 1 post in so far. I don't like the post and it's something I would like to engage her on, but until she gets back in here and posts more I can't do that.

1 post that's not quite good does not a scumbag make.

Shit, can we get rid of that altslip?

oopsie.

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

if this is real, its sus
if this is RvS, I dont like it but its NAI

It's scummy because they are making it seem like they don't want to vote because we may be out of rvs already, not very likely when we are barely on page 2. They answer their own question by mentioning that nothing scummy has really come up, which would mean that most likely we are still in rvs.

So if they were concerned about being out of rvs as a reason to have not voted, their own reasoning is negated by their own observation of the game, and should have felt comfortable voting freely.

For some reason they didn't.

*She/her, thanks.

It's possible to be out of RVS on page 2, just as it's possible for scummy things to happen during RVS, so I think your logic here is wrong. From my perspective, it seemed like there might be enough substantive talk, especially based on/around nancy's questions, that we might be out of RVS, but I wasn't positive because I'm still pretty new and I'm not 100% sure when RVS ends (other than everybody agreeing that it's over). So, I could either risk making a random vote and getting scrutinized for that, or I could be wrong about the RVS status and risk being scrutinized for not voting at all. I went with "don't vote, explain why, and assume people will understand," but that failed, and here we are.

Speaking of vote scrutiny...

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

My understanding of RVS is that it only involves one random vote, and then the next vote should be serious. So, why this second non-serious vote?

I would never scrutinize someone for voting someone in their entrance post unless its a vote on confirmed town
also, why would you be so worried about being scrutinzed for an RvS vote? if your town a little bit of scrutinization is actually good because it can help reveal peoples alignments and get discussion going
RvS can be any number of time, posts, or votes as long as there hasn't been serious discussion going on(or too much of it)

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

quote="In post 48, Flicker"]I don't care about being scrutinized overall, and I don't see how you got that out of my post? I just prefer to be scrutinized for better/more substantial reasons than I felt I would have been.[/quote]

You said you had the risk of making a random vote and getting the scrutinized for that versus getting scrutinized for not voting at all which makes me think that getting scrutinized is at the forefront of your mind.

I saw that too I dont really like the defensiveness and shading Oka on saying how did he get scrutinizing out of flicker's post

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

It helps to get a sense of people and to get some conversation started. I always try to develop a feel for people's baseline in games where I don't know anyone and those questions can be good for that. They're also the type of things that will usually come up at some point over the course of the game, so I think it gets that information out there earlier. Plus I feel like people have a tendency to tunnel a bit out of RVS, so I'm not a huge fan of the thing. "Who are we all and how do we play" feels like a healthier and more balanced way to start a game than "lol you're mafia".

I like Nancy's response to this

It's scummy because they are making it seem like they don't want to vote because we may be out of rvs already, not very likely when we are barely on page 2. They answer their own question by mentioning that nothing scummy has really come up, which would mean that most likely we are still in rvs.

So if they were concerned about being out of rvs as a reason to have not voted, their own reasoning is negated by their own observation of the game, and should have felt comfortable voting freely.

For some reason they didn't.

Kinda like this approach to sorting Flicker, and that he saw the same thing that I saw.

agreed, and im getting towny vibes from both FF and you

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

Um. Why are you voting him? Do you think it's scummy that he made a drug reference? I feel like I'm missing something.

agreed

So, I could either risk making a random vote and getting scrutinized for that, or I could be wrong about the RVS status and risk being scrutinized for not voting at all. I went with "don't vote, explain why, and assume people will understand," but that failed, and here we are.

Kinda like the transparency here, I guess.

could you explain what transparency is?

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

And your response feels genuine, which I like? It's not very alignment indicative but sure, let's say it's a little bit towny for now. I mean, it would have been scummy for you to actually call him scum for such bad reasons, so that not being a thing is the main thing I get from your response. Still like you for town, woohoo!

I agree that Trinity feels mostly natural, so light town, but not too much.

I also like Nancy as town more and more

And your response feels genuine, which I like? It's not very alignment indicative but sure, let's say it's a little bit towny for now. I mean, it would have been scummy for you to actually call him scum for such bad reasons, so that not being a thing is the main thing I get from your response. Still like you for town, woohoo!

Yeah, I’m not saying he’s scum. Yet.

This was odd to me. I guess its early D1 and reads aren't really in fruition, but this was as fence-sitty post as ive ever seen

Yet?

Just that it’s too early to tell

if you have any doubts, push, push, push your null/scum reads

I read Flickers post as just confusion about RVS which is justified, i dont really care for it either. I think Formerfish is reading too much into it or taking the wrong meaning of what she wrote rather than trying to play it up tho. i'd put this as NAI for both sides. Also, @Flicker - i've seen people make multiple RVS votes, it doesnt really matter. tbh if playing the RVS in an unorthodox way like voting multiple times kick starts the game then imo its better because i hate the RVS.

HOWEVER - TrinityNZ's vote change and reasoning that she wanted to move it off of a player who is being replaced actually makes me think she is town. Like i said, nothing wrong with throwing your vote around if it kick starts the game. The RVS' only purpose is to get the game moving. mafia players want us to have a nice slow game with low activity, she could have kept her vote on maggie where it would have no affect on getting the game moving and none of us would have questioned her. But she decided to change it and risk drawing attention on herself anyway. i dont think mafia players would do that

first P.: Formerfish saw exactly what Nancy and I saw, so its not really reading into it too much, or taking the wrong meaning, but on the same note its not a super scummy thing(What we saw)

Second P. I agree with this, but also RvS is good for looking at associations.

Anyway, I already feel pretty good about this game considering it's only page 4.

I like Trinity's kind of guileless attitude, it doesn't feel put on and she doesn't feel nervous. I basically agree with stan's take that it's sorta villagery to have had the thought that she should keep her vote on someone who is active. Could be that she's just trying to do the Right Thing as a wolf, I guess, but that's not really how I'm feeling it.

Sort of like the way FF put down his thoughts on Flicker then immediately oopsed and said he had meant to wait for a response to her. It feels like a bit of a town thing to have thoughts on something that you're holding on to, and I think if he was mafia he would probably be more aware of what he was doing, rather than just plopping them down right away. I'm not a huge fan of way he's using logic there, feels a little forced, but I also thought the way Flicker held on to her vote was a little off, and I can believe that he just took that feeling a little further than I did.

The way OkaPoka is asking people questions feels good, I guess. It's not much but it's a start. I like that he was looking into Flicker's mindset rather than just laying down a superficial take that she was scummy for being self-conscious or something like that.

stan feels super relaxed and I guess I'm reading that as a town thing at this point. I like his Trinity read probably more than anything that's happened so far, I think. It really shows that he's looking for her motivation there and not being lazy with the way he's thinking about the game.

Sorta dislike SA a little, mostly just that he laid down and a vote without commenting on anything that was happening in his first, and hasn't really done anything since. Moar posts, pls.

Peeps should tell me if they think anything I just wrote is insane.

honestly, even if this sounds like sheeping...
I agree with ever single point you made, except...
I dont think Oka asking questions is AI and,
while Stan feels relaxed, his trinity read could be based off a little TMI and coming from scum, so I dont think that is AI either

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

why are you shading Oka because he asked a question about RQS

also, I hope you realize that Nancy's "reads" based off of RQS are either reaction's or light reads, not strong reads.

Sort of like the way FF put down his thoughts on Flicker then immediately oopsed and said he had meant to wait for a response to her. It feels like a bit of a town thing to have thoughts on something that you're holding on to, and I think if he was mafia he would probably be more aware of what he was doing, rather than just plopping them down right away.

I'm not a huge fan of way he's using logic there

, feels a little forced, but I also thought the way Flicker held on to her vote was a little off, and I can believe that he just took that feeling a little further than I did.

Its just that I'm having flashbacks to another newer player that like 3 of us just played a game with, 2.8. He was very stuck on rules and procedures during the game he was scum, and im pretty sure trinity was the partner there. He kept talking about procedures and how he wasnt sure if he was following them correctly. It led to his lynch on day 1.

To me the idea that someone is going to scrutinize everything you say is one from scum. As town I dont give a shit what I say or how I say it. I can either back it up or i end up being wrong and I may end up eating rope. If I'm a PR then that sucks, but as a VT one can only dream of eating the n1 kill. As scum I am much more aware of what I say and when. Everything I do is crafted to try and prey upon someones weak spot.

I've also quite recently played with a new player who awkwardly played rvs in that game and he ended up being scum.

This is all anecdotal.

I concur with these sentiments exactly.
as town you should be relaxed and trust in yourself
as scum you try to act relaxed but you also need to be aware

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

it doesn't normally end with a stalled game, it actually makes it into more of a natural transition game

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

I sorta don't believe that these are things that bother you?

Feels a little more like you're looking for ways to dumpster him for not looking sexy than having legitimate concerns with what his motivations are. Particularly the way that you're kind of passive aggressively painting what he's doing as scummy without actually committing to a scumread. I'd expect that kind of approach when you've maybe had a scumread for a while and been stewing over it and there's just nothing about the person that you like, not in a super early game situation where first impressions are still being made pretty much.

So, uh, why is it scummy to you that he didn't ask me about the RQS thing right away? Why is it a bad thing that he asked me about something that you felt should be obvious? I don't necessarily agree that it should have been obvious and I don't think there's anything super harmful in asking that kind of question, so please help me see why you do?

I don't understand your approach here and I'd like to understand it so if you could talk more about what you're thinking / doing that would be super helpful.

Vote: Flicker

I agree with Nancy here, Flicker ?pushing? and shading Oka based on asking a question is wolfy and I am not getting good vibes from flicker rn.

Sort of like the way FF put down his thoughts on Flicker then immediately oopsed and said he had meant to wait for a response to her. It feels like a bit of a town thing to have thoughts on something that you're holding on to, and I think if he was mafia he would probably be more aware of what he was doing, rather than just plopping them down right away.

I'm not a huge fan of way he's using logic there

, feels a little forced, but I also thought the way Flicker held on to her vote was a little off, and I can believe that he just took that feeling a little further than I did.

Its just that I'm having flashbacks to another newer player that like 3 of us just played a game with, 2.8. He was very stuck on rules and procedures during the game he was scum, and im pretty sure trinity was the partner there. He kept talking about procedures and how he wasnt sure if he was following them correctly. It led to his lynch on day 1.

To me the idea that someone is going to scrutinize everything you say is one from scum. As town I dont give a shit what I say or how I say it. I can either back it up or i end up being wrong and I may end up eating rope. If I'm a PR then that sucks, but as a VT one can only dream of eating the n1 kill. As scum I am much more aware of what I say and when. Everything I do is crafted to try and prey upon someones weak spot.

I've also quite recently played with a new player who awkwardly played rvs in that game and he ended up being scum.

This is all anecdotal.

This is like, extremely nebulous but I am townreading you for all of this, lmao.

lmao

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hum. Either a) the questions asked in RQS were bad, or b) the people in the game didn't know how to push the game forward. I don't think RQS as a thing is ever going to be at fault for the game stalling.

Sure, in mafiascum meta people are more familiar with just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other, which lends itself better to RVS than RQS for obvious reasons, and might feel uncomfortable actually treating each other with decency and approaching the game from a more reasonable standpoint, but to say that RQS is to blame for people not knowing how to handle it properly is, um, sorta shortsighted, I think.

"just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other,"
-is it ok if I quote you on this in my sig?

Also like, I have the starts of two townreads and a scumread from how people responded to the discussion around RQS, so to say that it's not good for generating reads just ain't truth.

yep

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hum. Either a) the questions asked in RQS were bad, or b) the people in the game didn't know how to push the game forward. I don't think RQS as a thing is ever going to be at fault for the game stalling.

Sure, in mafiascum meta people are more familiar with just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other, which lends itself better to RVS than RQS for obvious reasons, and might feel uncomfortable actually treating each other with decency and approaching the game from a more reasonable standpoint, but to say that RQS is to blame for people not knowing how to handle it properly is, um, sorta shortsighted, I think.

i guess it is shortsighted but you are the IC so you have some semblance of authority making it easy for scum!you to try and derail the game into non scumhunt mode. apathy and inaction are probably some of the leading causes of town losses in non role madness setups.

lolwut

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hum. Either a) the questions asked in RQS were bad, or b) the people in the game didn't know how to push the game forward. I don't think RQS as a thing is ever going to be at fault for the game stalling.

Sure, in mafiascum meta people are more familiar with just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other, which lends itself better to RVS than RQS for obvious reasons, and might feel uncomfortable actually treating each other with decency and approaching the game from a more reasonable standpoint, but to say that RQS is to blame for people not knowing how to handle it properly is, um, sorta shortsighted, I think.

i guess it is shortsighted but you are the IC so you have some semblance of authority making it easy for scum!you to try and derail the game into non scumhunt mode. apathy and inaction are probably some of the leading causes of town losses in non role madness setups.

Um, I'm pretty sure that would be against IC rules. Like, if I'm mafia then I am straight up not allowed to lie about theory stuff to benefit my wincon. If I did then I would be banned as IC. This is why the IC role is so important in newbies. You need someone to be able to talk about theory stuff that you can trust to be truthful regardless of their alignment.

You're right that if I'm mafia I super want to derail the game and have people not scumhunting, though. I would just manipulate my position as the most experienced player to do that, not my role as IC specifically. Like, I can totally make shit up like "hey we should lynch this townie who claimed cop, that would totally be the best idea ever, right guys???" but I can't speak as IC and say "yeah it's optimal to lynch someone who claims a role".

Really just treat me as any other player and try not to think too much about the fact that I'm the IC when you're trying to get a read on me and such, because uhm, I actually am just another player and I'm not special in any way whatsoever in that capacity.

Also, kinda think it's a teensy bit towny that you're thinking about this, lmao.

im liking Nancy as town

Then again the way you worded that "leading causes of town losses" etc. feels a little brittle. Hrm. What are Tone Reads.

agreed

Also like, I'm pretty obviously not trying to derail the game into non-scumhunting mode I think, lmao, so yeah actually that's a pretty detached thought to have and from that perspective it doesn't really feel genuine, hm.

You can join the poopoo list.

lol

What are Pregame Readscales lmao

nancy ~ )) ---- )) ---- stan - FF, Trinity - [Iceman, Eragon] % )) - > SA, OkaPoka - Flicker )) ~

can you explain what this means... ive never seen reads like this lol.

[Eragon]

(ignore the part about read scales I saw you explained it.)

[Eragon]

has iceman even posted?


also, I dont like the fact that you are asking about a scumteam of 2 people(that might be newbies. I dont know) and have had almost zero thread presence

[Eragon]

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

Oka's question doesnt seem odd to me. But with Flicker's question I don't see the point at all. I also don't understand why she would feel the need to mention that he didn't answer them as well as other people. (also i checked - Oka actually put in roughly the same amount of effort I did when answering them).

I guess the point of a scum-scum interaction is to make it seem like they are trying to sort eachother without going too hard as hard bussing is a scumtell. Maybe, but i don't think so. Oka had a reasonable answer and i see nothing wrong with his original question. so i don't think it's scum-scum

Here is what i think happened - Oka actually made a question to Flicker in #47 and then in #49 criticized her response. Flicker did not respond to this but instead wrote post #80. So instead of responding to the fair criticism by Oka, Flicker threw some criticism straight back at OKa. I think this is scummy, especially because there was nothing really substantial in what she was saying, its like it was pulled from thin air because she thought she needed to give something back as a way to turn people against Oka instead of herself

VOTE: Flicker

wow I didnt even catch that lol.

Distancing alpha-omega Blueline 42 Redbull between flicker and Oka?

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

Fuck. I meant to not answer that until they said something, but I just smoked a bowl on the shitter and forgot.

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

Um. Why are you voting him? Do you think it's scummy that he made a drug reference? I feel like I'm missing something.

I thought we were still in RVS, and as Maggie is being replaced, and isn’t around, thought I’d switch my vote. So I didn’t think the drug reference was scummy, but just the reason for my random vote.

It's scummy because they are making it seem like they don't want to vote because we may be out of rvs already, not very likely when we are barely on page 2. They answer their own question by mentioning that nothing scummy has really come up, which would mean that most likely we are still in rvs.

So if they were concerned about being out of rvs as a reason to have not voted, their own reasoning is negated by their own observation of the game, and should have felt comfortable voting freely.

For some reason they didn't.

*She/her, thanks.

It's possible to be out of RVS on page 2, just as it's possible for scummy things to happen during RVS, so I think your logic here is wrong. From my perspective, it seemed like there might be enough substantive talk, especially based on/around nancy's questions, that we might be out of RVS, but I wasn't positive because I'm still pretty new and I'm not 100% sure when RVS ends (other than everybody agreeing that it's over). So, I could either risk making a random vote and getting scrutinized for that, or I could be wrong about the RVS status and risk being scrutinized for not voting at all. I went with "don't vote, explain why, and assume people will understand," but that failed, and here we are.

Speaking of vote scrutiny...

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

My understanding of RVS is that it only involves one random vote, and then the next vote should be serious. So, why this second non-serious vote?

Oops. I didn’t realise there was a restriction on how many random votes you could do. Sorry. Should I unvote?

@trinityNZ

1) did you know you were rvs'ing and putting FF L-2 this early into the game?
2) is 64 sarcasm?

are you scum reading trinity off of these 2 points?
if you have more, post it, if not, this is extremely weak and pushy

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Nancy's questions are hardly random, though. As the IC, it makes sense to ask that kind of stuff.

I sorta don't believe that these are things that bother you?

Feels a little more like you're looking for ways to dumpster him for not looking sexy than having legitimate concerns with what his motivations are. Particularly the way that you're kind of passive aggressively painting what he's doing as scummy without actually committing to a scumread. I'd expect that kind of approach when you've maybe had a scumread for a while and been stewing over it and there's just nothing about the person that you like, not in a super early game situation where first impressions are still being made pretty much.

So, uh, why is it scummy to you that he didn't ask me about the RQS thing right away? Why is it a bad thing that he asked me about something that you felt should be obvious? I don't necessarily agree that it should have been obvious and I don't think there's anything super harmful in asking that kind of question, so please help me see why you do?

I don't understand your approach here and I'd like to understand it so if you could talk more about what you're thinking / doing that would be super helpful.

Vote: Flicker

Funny you think I'm subtly shading Oka, because I felt like I was pretty explicitly scumreading him, based on him subtly shading

you

. I just don't see, with the timing of the question and how many people (including Oka) who had answered it, why to ask that. And if it was a question of RVS vs RQS (which isn't even the case here, your questions aren't random), that's just a playstyle difference that Oka must already be aware of; so why not just mention that, instead of just a general question with some subtle shade (at Q3 in particular)?

I think this question coming from a newbie would have been okay, but Oka's a pretty experienced SE so that kind of "method" question doesn't feel so innocent. And I agree with you that his further thoughts in 93 feel off, too.

(also i checked - Oka actually put in roughly the same amount of effort I did when answering them).

The difference between your responses and his, though, is that even with a similar amount of effort, your answers still have more detail/substance. I mean, your "This my third game so far. I think the most important thing i've learnt is to always think about motivations behind posts." is better than his "yes and still suck, turns out people are good at lying." Maybe that's not enough of a difference to you, but it is to me.

Here is what i think happened - Oka actually made a question to Flicker in #47 and then in #49 criticized her response. Flicker did not respond to this but instead wrote post #80. So instead of responding to the fair criticism by Oka, Flicker threw some criticism straight back at OKa.

I disagree that 49 is a criticism of my response. It just felt like Oka explaining himself, and I didn't have a reply to that other than to reiterate my remarks from 48. Also, in general, if my reply would only be something like "you're wrong," I just don't bother replying.

@trinityNZ

1) did you know you were rvs'ing and putting FF L-2 this early into the game?
2) is 64 sarcasm?

Meanwhile, here's another example of unnecessary/subtly shading questions from Oka. Trinity mentions RVS in the second quoted post, and Q2 is just a little silly, no? These feel more like busywork than honest/useful questions.

VOTE: OkaPoka

*distancing intensifies*
while this is a better case on Oka than Oka's on trinity
it still pings me as reachy and looking for every little tiny thing you can grab on to
kinda like climbing a mountain

@flicker i mean sure draw conclusions before the q&a session with trinity is over

...

[Eragon]

okay trinity, nancy, and stanley are town

im having a hard time really scumreading anyone rn tho

thought i had a direction with trinity but meh

im not really seeing flicker scum rn

pretty sure former is town

what changed with trinity and flicker?

[Eragon]

trinity is town because i don't see a new player interact that much and be scum

nancy ur town because i don't see you interacting that much to be scum

stanley feels like a rational town player

---

i thought trinity might have been scum with the rvs vote thing she did on FF but i don't think so anymore, mainly because i think her not understanding it was l2 seems genuine

flicker seems a bit defensive but nothing concrete yet

former is town because reasons

---
unvoted because we are out of rvs

and ill read that eragon post later

saw you explain it after I posted, sorry.

so you thought trinity was scum, but when they said they didnt know it was L-2 it went to town????

[Eragon]

okay...

im going to eat now

AMA and ill respond later

[Eragon]

could you explain what transparency is?[/spoiler]

So like, imagine you've got a curtain, and behind the curtain is a big fat messy glob of brainjuice containing all your thoughts about the game. Everyone has their own special and unique glob of brainjuice, is part of being human. When you talk about things in the game, you're extracting stuff from your brainjuices and presenting them to rest of the game, basically by parting the curtain a little and sharing a little sample.

In it's most extreme form, you just make the curtain entirely see-through and everyone can just see all of your brainjuice, it's spilling out everywhere and it's kind of disgusting and no one really wants to look at it but it's also sorta compelling and they can't help but look. Practically speaking, though, it's kinda helpful to form your thoughts about things in a coherent way so that other people don't have to do a lot of work to figure out what the heck all that juice shit is that's happening. That would be, like, making a big ol' soup and when you come out the curtain parts and everyone can take a bit of a look at the big messy yucky glob and then they're given this delicious soup to eat and drink and they kinda get the best of both worlds. A bit of a view of the messy shit behind the curtain and a nice taste of coherency, and they can tell that that soup came from that glob because they can see that both have the same qualities, child like mother.

Thing is, if you're mafia, your brainjuice isn't like everyone else's. Your brainjuice is all contained in a neat little vat and there's nothing messy about it. It has air bubbles and shit, it's basically curated. So when you're bringing out your soup and ladle, people will see the vat behind the curtain and they'll be like, what? Who are you? And like, mafia can dress up their brainjuice and try to make it all messy, they can have these delicious soup recipes to feed everyone, but when it comes down to it, when they're doing the "transparent" thing and showing everyone what they think, there's no foundation to it, all they have is a silly-looking vat, they had to invent everything to make it seem like other people's ugly crap, they can't really part the curtain because if they do then people will notice that there's a disconnect between the soup and what's behind. And they're kinda smug about it, too, more often than not, you know. Power and secrecy does things to people.

Makey sense?

so Tl;dr

Paint blob A is town
Paint blob B is scum

Paint blob A is all spread around and messy and a thin layer because it is spread and lots of different things coursing through it and wild

Paint blob b is neatly within the lines because the person is wary about going outside of the lines?

[Eragon]

honestly, even if this sounds like sheeping...
I agree with ever single point you made, except...
I dont think Oka asking questions is AI and,
while Stan feels relaxed, his trinity read could be based off a little TMI and coming from scum, so I dont think that is AI either[/spoiler]

Sorta disagree. I think there's a lot of alignment information in the way someone asks questions and what they get from those questions.

Like, take our wagons in the last votal.

Formerfish (3) - OkaPoka, IcemanCh, TrinityNZ
Flicker (2) - nancy, Stan1ey
IcemanCh (1) - Formerfish
stan1ey (1) - SargeAlpha

Not Voting (2) - Eragon, Flicker

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

So I'm a little wary of SA, right? Let's say SA votes Iceman, and a bit later I vote Iceman too. Now, why am I voting with someone who I think could be mafia? Is that a weird thing from me? Well, the way you figure that out is a) look at what I've done to figure out Iceman's alignment, b) look at what I've done to figure out SA's alignment, c) ask me questions about either/both if you're not satisfied with my process.

If I've just hopped on with SA and not done anything to figure him out or to figure out why he's on that wagon, that's kinda weird, no? Maybe you should prod me about that? Okay, and how do I respond?

"Oh hm, good point Eragon, yeah that's a little weird maybe this isn't a great wagon and I should unvote and look elsehwere. Do you have any thoughts on this other person?" Okay, that's pretty towny on a generic level, you can probably feel better about me from that.

"Uh, didn't think about it, it's not important so whatever." That's kinda scummy on a generic level, no? Maybe want to keep a closer eye on me.

"Well I have A, B, C, D, E reasons and listen to all this babble about how complicated this situation is and all of the great lengths I went to to figure things out." Hummmm, that feels kinda played up, you might think, yeah?

The game is all about figuring things out and the way people go about trying to do that is super important. Questioning is right up there with analysis as far as getting a read on someone is concerned, I think.

Anyway, digression aside, I did have a similar thought to you about stan's post, but I liked where he was coming from more than not and put that bit aside to keep tabs on as the game progresses. I'm sort of in wait-and-see mode with him. He's been following me around a little, but he's also had his own take on things, so I'm not like, super worried? It's pretty early and if he keeps up like this then I think I'll have a pretty good bead on him by the time we near the end of the phase. Plus, if he's mafia and he's clearing townies for us then that's never a bad thing.

um. ok.
more what I meant was the specific questions Oka was asking, not asking questions in general.

also, I agree with you on Stan, he shouldn't be townread based on his town!trinity post, but neither should he be considered scum.
NAI if you will

[Eragon]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game? My goal is to be very active. So far I'm failing. I want to try to do be in the mix as much as possible.
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play? I've played three games here and several TOS games on another non-mafia centric site.
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why? I prefer manipulating town. Mostly cause I'm bad at it and want to get better.

oh your homesite is ToS?

[Eragon]

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

did you think about scum killing people for other reasons?

Scum can kill someone for many reasons
1.they townread scum
2. they are correct on their reads
3. they are towny and won't get lynched but are likely to not have TP on them

while attacking IC leads to the possibility of hitting a TP

(on top of the fact that Nancy has been very towny)

im not saying we absolutely follow every word they say, im just saying we dont PL them because they are an IC, a good player, and didnt die early...

[Eragon]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game? My goal is to be very active. So far I'm failing. I want to try to do be in the mix as much as possible.
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play? I've played three games here and several TOS games on another non-mafia centric site.
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why? I prefer manipulating town. Mostly cause I'm bad at it and want to get better.

oh your homesite is ToS?

No.....

I'm a super nerd that plays EVE. My alliance has a forum and we play TOS in the a sub forum. Lots of fun but they are usually super gimmicky with a ton of PRs.

oh ok

"just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other,"
-is it ok if I quote you on this in my sig?

Lmao, I mean you can if you really want to, not until the game ends though.

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

I think they are both overreacting to the situation. Oka seems to have played a game with RQS in it, as he stated how games turn out after they appear. So he would know what nancy was doing and why. The questions are pretty standard, and didn't oka answer them himself?

Flicker is giving off a scum caught for reasons they cant believe they were caught for, so they think they should lash out and play like really aggressively. I dont like their play here at all so far.

Could they be the scum team here? Meh... If I were to guess which was scum if it was 50/50 it'd be flicker right now (and just an aside. I find it weird that you corrected me in a post when I was unsure of your gender so I used a general term to address you. Like I didn't call you a dude. And its not a huge thing, just seemed odd to make your priority with my posting.)

town

has iceman even posted?


also, I dont like the fact that you are asking about a scumteam of 2 people(that might be newbies. I dont know) and have had almost zero thread presence

C'mon, its not a huge deal to make that joke. And Iceman had posted at that point, mostly to say that he wasn't forgetting about the game. He seems to be here now. I have like 2 games played with him recently. We'll see whats up with him.

what joke??

[Eragon]

so Tl;dr

Paint blob A is town
Paint blob B is scum

Paint blob A is all spread around and messy and a thin layer because it is spread and lots of different things coursing through it and wild

Paint blob b is neatly within the lines because the person is wary about going outside of the lines?

tl;dr transparency is showing your work. "I think X is town." Leave it there, you're not being transparent. "I had A, B, C thoughts/feelings that led me to think X is town." That's transparency. "I can't seem to articulate why but I think X is town, here are posts that made me feel things." Also transparency.

got it

[Eragon]

I know its weak but I like the fact that he is putting his opinion out there on someone(flicker) who seems like mis-lynch bait and/or noob town(sorry flicker) without trying to strong-arm the Lynch.
If I were scum id likely be trying to strong-arm a flicker mis-lynch based on some posts

[Eragon]

I like that FF is putting reasons out and explaining some scummy things he sees of Flicker, without trying to manipulate the entire town and strong-arm the Lynch

[Eragon]

ST-{none}
T-{Formerfish, Nancy}
LT-{Trinity, Stan1ey
N-{Sargealpha}
NS-{oka, flicker, iceman}
S-{none}

I dont have any ST because I normally reserve that bracket for either
1. confirmed town
2. I can't see any way at all they ever ever flip scum

And I dont have any solid SR's rn so none in the S bracket

[Eragon]

what joke??

Oka made a joke about the scum team being the 2 people who havent really posted much. In a newbie that could very well be what happens sometimes. Town has a want to get out there and meet each other. We want to size each other up, really get each others weight. We can only really do that by being right next to them, or as I know it to be called, dancing. This is how I town hunt and where I get my reads from. Scum has to be weary of everything they do each time they interact with people because its all a lie. What scum says to one person they have to say to all, and when you are lying lies tend to build on themselves until there is this invisible web. Then you have town people who start to dive into every word someone has posted and you start to see the web being built over time. Thats why is so hard for scum to hide forever, and why newbie scum try to hide until they cant anymore.

I dont see how its a joke...

and it seems opportunistic to me

[Eragon]

I like that FF is putting reasons out and explaining some scummy things he sees of Flicker, without trying to manipulate the entire town and strong-arm the Lynch

Alright, fair. I think where I disagree is that I don't think not strongarming a lynch is towny and I don't think strongarming a lynch is necessarily scummy, either. Like, scum very often just skate by all game and get lost in empty process work that doesn't really do anything other than make them look town. What has FF done to solve the game in that post? What has he done that scum can't do? Sure, his posts are reasonable, but scum can be reasonable. What is he doing that scum can't do, or what is he doing that would really be a detriment to scum if he did it?

It seems like you're townreading low-key performance and I think that's probably a blind-spot for you? I don't think being low-key is town. I don't think FF is mafia, he's hovering like a little above null for me right now, and maybe you're right and he's just town, but right now I just don't agree with your reasoning and I have some concerns with his play (which I'd sort of rather wait on talking about until he does more things).

ok, I understand that strong-arming isn't always a scum tell, and is sometimes actually towny, but normally doing it early D1 on a mis-lynch bait target pings me a bit, so the fact that FF doesn't is a bit towny.

I also have liked some of his other posts, but I understand that scum can do this to.

he is one of my stronger town reads for now, not gonna say it will never change.

[Eragon]

because my vote is not on anyone and

at this point im just going to grasp at straws to find scum

i mean i could go ahead and drop a vote on flicker but other people seem to be pushing that so I might as well do other stuff in the meantime

this game feels way too slow for my taste, gotta shake things up somehow

why?

we have plenty of time left (iirc) to find scum.

plus you should actually have reasons that someone is scum, not just "grasping at straws"

also, this game being slow, please.

[Eragon]

well, even so we have plenty of time.

im used to 96 hour days(4 days RL) at the maximum and we have double that plus one day.

these daylengths feel abnormally long to me, but I know I have plenty of time

[Eragon]

ill admit its going slower than normal games on ToS FM, but its not too bad

[Eragon]

but I mean, can we expect 150 pages on D1?

(no joke there was a game on ToS that had 150 pages in 4 RL days)

[Eragon]

not the fact that its 2 random people, the fact that its 2 people with zero thread presence and that are noobs(if im not mistaken)

if thats not hella opportunistic idk what is

[Eragon]

not the fact that its 2 random people, the fact that its 2 people with zero thread presence and that are noobs(if im not mistaken)

if thats not hella opportunistic idk what is

I guess, but like, he has some shape of a townread on everyone else, no?

so its just PoE then...

PoE D1???

[Eragon]

not the fact that its 2 random people, the fact that its 2 people with zero thread presence and that are noobs(if im not mistaken)

if thats not hella opportunistic idk what is

I guess, but like, he has some shape of a townread on everyone else, no?

so its just PoE then...

PoE D1???

adding onto this,

If it truly is PoE, im truly amazed that ANYONE can have 7 solid enough townreads that they think that the 2 scum are the only people they dont townred

[Eragon]

oh right m.b lol

[Eragon]

also, 4 out of 8 is 50%

2 of 8 is 25%

and you have 4 from 10 pages

he has 2 from 6 pages

[Eragon]

im not saying its super wolfy, im just saying it seems opportunistic and we should keep an eye out.

A red flag if you will

[Eragon]

yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo

VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her

and earlier you called her town?

[Eragon]

ok btw i havent read the last page or so because im busy and screw it.

maybe skim soon

[Eragon]

sorry guys, I was sleeping, woke up early, and went to a golf tournament and am finally home.

I will be catching up but I saw someone say something about voting...


I will say this here and now, I am NOT a believer in pressure votes.
When I vote somebody it is because I have a strong belief they will flip scum.
yesterday, I felt like Oka and flicker were both scummy enough to warrant a vote, but me voting would've put them at L-2(iirc)
and I dont think L-2 is a good spot rn because it normally warrants a claim, and claiming this early into the game is bleh, and the game devolves into Neanderthals fighting over which claim people believe

[Eragon]

idk, guess didn't find them suspicious enough to scumread and throw my vote on a growing wagon

suspicious = scum, no?

I understand the "growing wagon" stuff

Um.

I'm not talking about your vote. You said "flicker seems a bit defensive but nothing concrete yet", then your next post you were like, odds are the mafia team doesn't include Flicker. That doesn't make sense if you actually suspected Flicker.

yep

im not really seeing flicker scum rn

This is also a thing.

Um.

would Oka be considered 180'ing or Fencesitting right here?(game theory question, not for actual game)

also started to scumread flicker more cuz peer pressure and my solid town were scumreading him

lol...

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

Basically I think there's a good chance of Scum in FF and Flicker, don't know why that is difficult to understand.

Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF.

this sounds like scum, err like
"oh I want to push a mis-lynch here but no one else scum reads him oh shit finally someone scum reads him yay lets all be happy and Lynch him"

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

first part = ???
second, ok, but is not being pro-active a specific scum-tell?
(if its some sort of meta thing lmk, but ive seen town slack off before and I dont think its very NAI.[a little maybe, but not too much, and not this early game])

Pretty sure I believe what I'm saying.

I'm throwing shade on you cuz I isod you.after abandoning Iceman case, think I found a decent scum chance here, hoping it would gain traction and yeah I guess I don't want to be lynched, but does anyone? As for the heat, I mean interacting directly.with others is the easiest way to develop reads on them for me

if you scum read someone dont beat around the bush, if you think you find a scum, push, dont shade
other than that, ok.

Pretty sure I believe what I'm saying.

I'm throwing shade on you cuz I isod you.after abandoning Iceman case, think I found a decent scum chance here, hoping it would gain traction and yeah I guess I don't want to be lynched, but does anyone? As for the heat, I mean interacting directly.with others is the easiest way to develop reads on them for me

OK but you’re going down the wrong track with me, you should be directing your energies to someone who actually looks like scum. That’s why you’re looking a bit suspicious

but he does think you look like scum, and instead of just brushing his read off, are you able to actually do something about it?
also, I find OMGUS normally flips scum more often than town

Uhm. I don't understand this approach from you at all Trinity. What.

i guess I’m just not understanding why OkaPoka is scum reading me, I don’t think I’ve given any reasons for it. I’m suggesting that we instead look for the actual scum.

but Oka does think you are the actual scum

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

Nancy, in this posts oka said I’m not being proactive and I’m not trying to engage with others. I don’t think this is true.

and what are you gonna do about it? are you going to prove him wrong? are you gonna become more proactive?

if you are town your goal is to be towny(same as scum I suppose) but if someone scum reads me, I would try to get the SR off me.
so I suggest you do the same

[Eragon]

its a 180

ok ty

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

I always feel like I come across as scum when I just sheep

Are you talking about this game or in general

In general. I feel sheeping can be lazy and is anti-town at best and scummy at worst. I feel like if I'm voting or someone else is voting they should always give a contributive reason. Never vote because someone else voted that way.

it depends. sheeping for no reason could be wolfy, but if your sheeping because someone "convinced" you or you agree with the points, than I think its fine

The votes moved from FF to Flicker and who FF and Flicker are voting for.

FF might have gotten caught early and then talked his way out of things. That said, I have known him to be lynchbait, but a really good player, so I have a Null read on that dynamic of the game, however, because both Flicker and FF are voting the same person who seems to have produced a wagon out of nowhere seems pretty suspect to me.

Also, Nacy's post on this page seem to have Town tone and I know Nancy to be a pretty good Town player and they are voting for Flicker. I need to look into Stan1ey's progression and vote on Flicker more, but that is where I am at atm.

I feel like you didn't really read the thread at all and just skimmed. That's kind of scummy. Everyone knew/agreed that the wagon on FF was RVS.

well, ye. Quick announced they weren't gonna read the thread. I consider it NAI.

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched. To me only scum would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything. If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones. Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

trinity-trinity is new? I thought I heard people saying they've played with trinity for some time...(correct me if im wrong), also, yuck meta
town could easily slack off and not read the thread and not give reads, its NAI at best

I think I'm a bit lost at the moment. I've lost my town read on Nancy..... Please Nancy come back to town. I wanna believe. She seems to have just faded a bit and is just poking holes in everything. Not necessarily a bad thing but, doesn't seem like the way things started at first.

Trinity, Go take a look at some of FFs other games. His play this game seems exactly like his town play. I'll go looking for one of his scum games and compare though because I've only played with town!FF.

Quick, I'm not sure what to ask you..... Have your reads changed? Not sure if the answer is worth it.

Oka, I don't mean to restate this but, you really seem to be looking for the easiest lynches instead of looking for scum. I don't like it. Also, what do you think about quick?

FF, do you think that Oka is a better lynch then Quick and why?

lol. Nancy is the most active player

meta!yuck


Im not really liking Iceman's tunnel on Quick for the pure reason of not reading thread....

Rip.

Well any way at all that you're able to articulate the reads would be helpful I guess. Kinda feel like if I can get a handle on FF and Trinity then the game is pretty much solved, so I could use as much input as possible even if it's horrible evil meta stuff. And if you're able to talk about them in a way that isn't meta then even better. We can talk more later as well when I go over my own reads on them.

Am sleeping now, goodnight!

agree with this

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

Nancy, in this posts oka said I’m not being proactive and I’m not trying to engage with others. I don’t think this is true.

you think you are being real proactive in engaging with others?
alright i guess ill do a bigish post
9 answering nancy's rqs questions
10 making a jokey comment
11 rvs vote
44 another rvs vote that put ff at l2 which will be clarified later
62 trinity responds to nancy about rvs stuff
63 "I liked it"
64 more rvs things
67 maybe proactive? just seems to be a side comment
69 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
71 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
100 prompted by nancy
101 want clarification from nancy on reads
117 explaining why she has no scumreads, promises to do more investigating later
118 thanking nancy for explaining
119 clarifying when prompted by nancy
121 answering my questions
264 explaining why she doesn't believe l-2 to be a big deal
288 catching up post
293 i made a post! trinity says im scummy for thinking she is scummy and im looking for excuses to vote her but i mean yeah that's mafia, asks why ff would hate me for voting me, i clarify later, i guess it's proactive? but she is also just engaging a person who is voting her so it's more reactive.
294 double post
297 time zones
299 reads, does something semi-proactive which is making her rvs vote her permanent your sus vote. decent post i like it
301 fluff
302 fluff
307 fluff
308 answering questions
382 showing solidarity for someone who might vote ff
387 "proactive" question after i claim that she hasn't been proactive
391 clarifying her question
393 meh
395 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy
399 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy

has very few moments of proactive town moments, most of her posts are either fluff or reacting to other questions which is i guess is kinda normal. but the only real proactive/unique thing she has done is mark Formerfish as possible scum, but she has yet to really follow up on that and engage with formerfish. maybe if she builds a more solid case against ff and responds to some of the points ff makes in response to nancy's case and takes a more active stance in challenging FF ill move off this but for now I see this as scum who is sitting back and not wanting to heavily engage with people so the spotlight isn't on her.

Wow! Nice work. For me, that is being proactive and engaging with the game.

You can throw heat on me if you want, I’m sure the real scum are loving it that the pressure is on someone else.

I’m waiting for FF to reply to me about his game playing being less aggressive than normal.

I like some of Iceman’s recent comments about Oka’s motivation. And love the ‘Nancy please come back to town’ comment.

I think you’re being a bit hard on quick though. It’s not easy coming into a game part-way through. I’ve done it on another game. He looked to me like he was trying at least.

I dont like the bolded sentence.
Im getting pretty bad vibes off of it.
also oka isnt being hard on quick???

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched. To me only scum would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything. If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones. Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

I think I'm a bit lost at the moment. I've lost my town read on Nancy..... Please Nancy come back to town. I wanna believe. She seems to have just faded a bit and is just poking holes in everything. Not necessarily a bad thing but, doesn't seem like the way things started at first.

Trinity, Go take a look at some of FFs other games. His play this game seems exactly like his town play. I'll go looking for one of his scum games and compare though because I've only played with town!FF.

Quick, I'm not sure what to ask you..... Have your reads changed? Not sure if the answer is worth it.

Oka, I don't mean to restate this but, you really seem to be looking for the easiest lynches instead of looking for scum. I don't like it. Also, what do you think about quick?

FF, do you think that Oka is a better lynch then Quick and why?

I am still developing reads. I probably will not get fully caught up and you saying that is Scummy is odd to me.

double yep

Rip.

Well any way at all that you're able to articulate the reads would be helpful I guess. Kinda feel like if I can get a handle on FF and Trinity then the game is pretty much solved, so I could use as much input as possible even if it's horrible evil meta stuff. And if you're able to talk about them in a way that isn't meta then even better. We can talk more later as well when I go over my own reads on them.

Am sleeping now, goodnight!

So if I look at just this game and ignore meta then.... I have to be honest in that I would struggle to place Trinity as town. I would put a scum lean on her either though. In isolation to this game she reads mostly neutral to me.

For FF looking at just this game I would say he's a town lean. Actively engaging, pushing people until he's satisfied, and giving clear reasoning behind his reads. This to me is town.

Adding in meta for both trinity and FF just gives them a bump into more towniness.

Is meta really that wrong to look at?

meta is normally pretty bad unless its an experienced player thats had 50 + games with the same meta.
and either way you should go off game-based reads

[Eragon]

sorry guys, I was sleeping, woke up early, and went to a golf tournament and am finally home.

I will be catching up but I saw someone say something about voting...


I will say this here and now, I am NOT a believer in pressure votes.
When I vote somebody it is because I have a strong belief they will flip scum.
yesterday, I felt like Oka and flicker were both scummy enough to warrant a vote, but me voting would've put them at L-2(iirc)
and I dont think L-2 is a good spot rn because it normally warrants a claim, and claiming this early into the game is bleh, and the game devolves into Neanderthals fighting over which claim people believe

Usually it's L-1 with an intent to hammer that necessitates a claim, not L-2. Where did you get that idea from anyway?

You are saying that you only vote with intent to lynch. How does changing your reads factor into that? AFAICT, playing without pressure votes is sub-optimal because like I just said, your reads are likely to change so if you are just voting to lynch then that takes away any kind of soft stance you might have on someone.

What is your read on Ice?

on my forum L-2 is always when people claim, and we dont have this "intent to Lynch" stuff.

if I vote someone, and my reads change, then I will change my vote.
I dont mean that I only place one vote a day, but when I place a vote, its because im a firm believer that the person im voting is scum.

About ice, im not liking his "IC PL" stuff or his scum read on you not reading the thread, so as with his read on Oka,
Noob!town or scum

[Eragon]

imo town wants to engage to develop reads on people while scum doesn't care about developing reads they just want to let others engage and argue while avoiding attention.

I agree thats its not a town tell, but I dont see not being proactive is a hard-scumtell either.

town isnt always proactive, just as scum isnt always not proactive.

I just dont find activity a good way to read someone

[Eragon]

Eragon, I meant Iceman was being hard on Quick.

oh ok

[Eragon]

ST-{none}
T-{Formerfish, Nancy}
LT-{Stan1ey, Quick}
N-{Trinity}
NS-{oka, flicker, iceman}
S-{none}

not much different, im liking iceman less and trinity was moved down
I put quick in LT because I dont think scum would draw too much attention to themselves for not reading the thread and it feel natural

[Eragon]

sorry guys, I was sleeping, woke up early, and went to a golf tournament and am finally home.

I will be catching up but I saw someone say something about voting...


I will say this here and now, I am NOT a believer in pressure votes.
When I vote somebody it is because I have a strong belief they will flip scum.
yesterday, I felt like Oka and flicker were both scummy enough to warrant a vote, but me voting would've put them at L-2(iirc)
and I dont think L-2 is a good spot rn because it normally warrants a claim, and claiming this early into the game is bleh, and the game devolves into Neanderthals fighting over which claim people believe

Hum.

You really shouldn't claim before L-1 and someone has given intent to hammer.

we all have our preferences.

im not really seeing flicker scum rn

This is also a thing.

Um.

would Oka be considered 180'ing or Fencesitting right here?(game theory question, not for actual game)

Is an inconsistency in his progression. If he's mafia, his stance on Flicker is a little glimpse into the fact that he's lying about his reads, because he can't keep his thoughts on her straight and reads into the same content from her in different ways based on thread temperature. Is possible that he just had that inconsistency as town too, though, I think, so it's a little scummy maybe but not very? He seems pretty scatterbrained as a player so I think it's probably less indicative than it might be otherwise. I also sorta liked his response to me about it, I guess, which helps a bit.

ok

God, I feel like I really need a sanity check on my Eragon townread.

im not insane, promise :3

[Eragon]

ST-{none}
T-{Formerfish, Nancy}
LT-{Stan1ey, Quick}
N-{Trinity}
NS-{oka, flicker, iceman}
S-{none}

not much different, im liking iceman less and trinity was moved down
I put quick in LT because I dont think scum would draw too much attention to themselves for not reading the thread and it feel natural

I don't mean just a readlist, I mean words about where your head is at with the game.

Like, you've posted about a bunch of stuff and I've agreed with a lot of what you've had to say but when I think about your reads and how you got to them I kind of come up empty? Also just kind of don't have a sense of what you're actually doing here to solve the game, feels a bit like you're just showing up and commenting on everything but not doing a whole lot else and it's worrying me.

ok, so basically like explaining my reads?

[Eragon]

we all have our preferences.

No, like, it's a sitemeta thing. We don't claim at L-2 here. People sometimes claim early out of frustration or stupidity or something, but if you're sane and in a sane game you don't claim before you're actually seriously threatened with a lynch, which is at L-1, when someone is thinking about putting the last vote down to kill you.

ok.

[Eragon]

i understand what explaining is, i was just kinda confused by what nancy meant with what are your head-thoughts in the game or something like that.

give me 10-15 minutes for overall

[Eragon]

Iceman:

I havent seen much content from him except saying he wants to PL the IC if they are alive late game, and calling quick scum for not reading the thread. Overall it seems like he has been pushing on the little things and reaching for some things, and I’m not getting good vibes from his post. All this being said, based on his experience level(i think) he could also be Noob!town

Stan1ey:

I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Flicker:

Starts off kinda awkward IMO, and I don’t really like their “scrutinization” posts, plus their SR on Oka feels kinda forced and reaching(like on the push about Oka asking questions, I mean ???) also when they posted their reads most of the Reads are very weak.

Reads Nancy towny for being active
Reads Iceman town for pointing out good Info
Reads FF as town for Mindmelding
Reads me as town for attitude
Reads Trinity as town for weirdness and votes
Reads Stan1ey as null for “sheeping”?
Reads Quick as null for the reading

And I think its odd that they have a town pile of 6 people and the other 2 are null pile?
So no SR’s?

Trinity:

I think her posts are fairly natural, there have been a few pings back and forth such as the “I don’t SR him… Yet” post and their defense of Oka, instead of trying to counter the read or Prove it wrong, they brush it off like its nothing and just say that “scum must be happy watching us argue” and more or less OMGUS’ing on Oka by saying his push is scummy.
I also didn’t like their post saying “Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF”

Their posts seem scummy but their tone feels natural, so thats why they are a null read for me

Quick:

Really don’t have a great read on them but I don’t think they would bring this much attention to themselves for not reading the thread if they were scum. This is by far one of my weaker reads, but I’m soul-reading them as light town

OkaPoka:

In the beginning he felt pretty good, but then I don’t really like him pushing the noobs that have low thread presence and likely will have a harder time defending themselves. It kinda seems like he is trying to pull of an easier mis-lynch than trying to Lynch someone like Nancy or FF. I also don’t like “at this point im just waiting for the replacement to sarge to replace in and say something so i can vote them lol” also he seems to be really wishy-washy on his reads, like on trinity he goes scum, town, then scum again. His tunnel on Iceman felt kinda off to me, even if I agreed with the points.
His push later on on Trinity feels towny actually. I also think its weird that as soon as Nancy said she was no longer positive in the TR on me, he said the same thing too. He just kinda seems like he’s being a little opportunistic and sheepy, but not overall too bad recently. He is also one of my weaker reads but I think he is a little scummy.

FF:

posts feel natural and towny, and I’m mind-melding a lot with him. He is pretty much a tone-read, and its kinda hard to explain in short words, but I am almost confident in a Town!FF

Nancy:

What do I even say about this except town, town, town, town, town, town

[Eragon]

ill post some more stuff soon.

[Eragon]

Um, where your head is at means like, how you're doing as far as solving the game, how you feel about the gamestate, how you feel about your reads, what reads you feel good about and don't feel good about, stuff like that.

I feel very good about my Nancy, FF, and Stan1ey reads
I am fairly confident in my Iceman and Flicker reads
I am barely confident in my Oka and Quick reads

I dont have a good read on Trinity yet

[Eragon]

its not just the fact that she doesnt have scumreads, its that here TR's are for really weak reasons, like attitude, activity, mindmelding, and pointing out Info

[Eragon]

Stan1ey: I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Could you quote which of his posts feel towniest to you and maybe say a few words about why?

sure

[Eragon]

To start off I'd appreciate it if everyone answered a few questions:

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game?
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why?

1) Fairly active but my posting will probably drop of next week
2) This my third game so far. I think the most important thing i've learnt is to always think about motivations behind posts.
3) Hunting mafia i guess? I don't know what you mean by manipulating town

i like his response to #2 here, its not really AI but it starts off good

I read Flickers post as just confusion about RVS which is justified, i dont really care for it either. I think Formerfish is reading too much into it or taking the wrong meaning of what she wrote rather than trying to play it up tho. i'd put this as NAI for both sides. Also, @Flicker - i've seen people make multiple RVS votes, it doesnt really matter. tbh if playing the RVS in an unorthodox way like voting multiple times kick starts the game then imo its better because i hate the RVS.

HOWEVER - TrinityNZ's vote change and reasoning that she wanted to move it off of a player who is being replaced actually makes me think she is town. Like i said, nothing wrong with throwing your vote around if it kick starts the game. The RVS' only purpose is to get the game moving. mafia players want us to have a nice slow game with low activity, she could have kept her vote on maggie where it would have no affect on getting the game moving and none of us would have questioned her. But she decided to change it and risk drawing attention on herself anyway. i dont think mafia players would do that

i like this because he holds up to what he said about motivation of posts and also i like his perspective on it.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

Oka's question doesnt seem odd to me. But with Flicker's question I don't see the point at all. I also don't understand why she would feel the need to mention that he didn't answer them as well as other people. (also i checked - Oka actually put in roughly the same amount of effort I did when answering them).

I guess the point of a scum-scum interaction is to make it seem like they are trying to sort eachother without going too hard as hard bussing is a scumtell. Maybe, but i don't think so. Oka had a reasonable answer and i see nothing wrong with his original question. so i don't think it's scum-scum

Here is what i think happened - Oka actually made a question to Flicker in #47 and then in #49 criticized her response. Flicker did not respond to this but instead wrote post #80. So instead of responding to the fair criticism by Oka, Flicker threw some criticism straight back at OKa. I think this is scummy, especially because there was nothing really substantial in what she was saying, its like it was pulled from thin air because she thought she needed to give something back as a way to turn people against Oka instead of herself

VOTE: Flicker

again looking at the motivation from a towny perspective IMO.
i also think he has been giving unbiased opinions.


He is not a strong read, and i would like to see some more info from him, but im fairly confident in him being towm

[Eragon]

@nancy

I certainly think Flicker should have some stronger reads at the time they posted that

they posted their reads list on Page 17

[Eragon]

I'm kind of tired of waiting around for stan to get prodded and post so I think I'm just going to go over my FF read and other things in a bit. My stomach needs food.

[Eragon]

(oookay)


@flicker.

can you elaborate a bit more on your reads and point out specific posts that make the person seem towny or elaborate a bit more instead of just saying "attitide" "active" etc...

[Eragon]

I saw someone talkign about my tone, well take this as you will, but im trying to be nicer and calmer playing FM

on my Home site i can get a bit riled up and sarcastic and jerky and annoying, and this annoys me as well.
Coming to a new site, a fresh start, i am trying to be calmer. I can see where this can seem like im trying to avoid conflict/stay under the radar, so i suppose i cant have both worlds be perfect. Im still gonna try to be calm, but i will also push and prod people to help me soldiify my reads

Catching up now

[Eragon]

I saw someone talkign about my tone, well take this as you will, but im trying to be nicer and calmer playing FM

on my Home site i can get a bit riled up and sarcastic and jerky and annoying, and this annoys me as well.
Coming to a new site, a fresh start, i am trying to be calmer. I can see where this can seem like im trying to avoid conflict/stay under the radar, so i suppose i cant have both worlds be perfect. Im still gonna try to be calm, but i will also push and prod people to help me soldiify my reads

Catching up now

Have you given a read on Oka? They've been a player under much contention for the majority of the game and I would like to see a stance there.

i think they are slightly scummy to me, but that is one of my weaker reads

[Eragon]

Iceman:

I havent seen much content from him except saying he wants to PL the IC if they are alive late game, and calling quick scum for not reading the thread. Overall it seems like he has been pushing on the little things and reaching for some things, and I’m not getting good vibes from his post. All this being said, based on his experience level(i think) he could also be Noob!town

Stan1ey:

I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Flicker:

Starts off kinda awkward IMO, and I don’t really like their “scrutinization” posts, plus their SR on Oka feels kinda forced and reaching(like on the push about Oka asking questions, I mean ???) also when they posted their reads most of the Reads are very weak.

Reads Nancy towny for being active
Reads Iceman town for pointing out good Info
Reads FF as town for Mindmelding
Reads me as town for attitude
Reads Trinity as town for weirdness and votes
Reads Stan1ey as null for “sheeping”?
Reads Quick as null for the reading

And I think its odd that they have a town pile of 6 people and the other 2 are null pile?
So no SR’s?

Trinity:

I think her posts are fairly natural, there have been a few pings back and forth such as the “I don’t SR him… Yet” post and their defense of Oka, instead of trying to counter the read or Prove it wrong, they brush it off like its nothing and just say that “scum must be happy watching us argue” and more or less OMGUS’ing on Oka by saying his push is scummy.
I also didn’t like their post saying “Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF”

Their posts seem scummy but their tone feels natural, so thats why they are a null read for me

Quick:

Really don’t have a great read on them but I don’t think they would bring this much attention to themselves for not reading the thread if they were scum. This is by far one of my weaker reads, but I’m soul-reading them as light town

OkaPoka:

In the beginning he felt pretty good, but then I don’t really like him pushing the noobs that have low thread presence and likely will have a harder time defending themselves. It kinda seems like he is trying to pull of an easier mis-lynch than trying to Lynch someone like Nancy or FF. I also don’t like “at this point im just waiting for the replacement to sarge to replace in and say something so i can vote them lol” also he seems to be really wishy-washy on his reads, like on trinity he goes scum, town, then scum again. His tunnel on Iceman felt kinda off to me, even if I agreed with the points.
His push later on on Trinity feels towny actually. I also think its weird that as soon as Nancy said she was no longer positive in the TR on me, he said the same thing too. He just kinda seems like he’s being a little opportunistic and sheepy, but not overall too bad recently. He is also one of my weaker reads but I think he is a little scummy.

FF:

posts feel natural and towny, and I’m mind-melding a lot with him. He is pretty much a tone-read, and its kinda hard to explain in short words, but I am almost confident in a Town!FF

Nancy:

What do I even say about this except town, town, town, town, town, town

these were all my reads as of ~ page 22.

im gonna catch up and see if anything changed for me.


Should i catch up by going through the 6-7 pages of thread or just looking at everyone's ISO?

[Eragon]

Sorry Ive been so inactive over the past few days...

Ive had a very busy couple of days, and it will continue through Saturday.


@Micc can I have V/LA until Saturday, July 21st?

[Eragon]

I can be somewhat active for about an hour/half hour each day.

I won't really have enough time to do ISO's or full reads or stuff like that but I can respond to a few posts if theres stuff that involves me.

[Eragon]

so I have like 30 minutes open rn, is there anything important for me to skim or do?

[Eragon]

@eragon examine trinity for me please
@nancy soooo, opinion on trinity?

ok

[Eragon]

Trinity ISO. sorry for the wait

Spoiler:

I liked the tone of Trinity's posts in the beginning of the Day, so i had a slight town lean there



Then, once oka started to SR her, she got really defensives and p.much OMGUS'd without even counter-acting the accusations

yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo

VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her

Quite right, I don’t spend 24 hours a day on this site I will come in, read the posts, answer any questions, and do what I can in the time I have, and will then go and do real life stuff for a while. I think I’m also in a different time zone to everyone else. I don’t know if I’m allowed to say where I live?

You saying that I seem scummy for trying to participate the best I can, and not just lurking, makes me think you are the scummy one and looking for any excuse to vote for me.

Why would FF hate you for voting for me?

Sorry, not sure how I managed to post the same thing twice below.

Did I miss something - Messiah Complex is someone new?

Ok, so FF, I know my vote for you was initially a random one, but I’m now starting to think you might actually be mafia. You seem to be playing a completely different way in this game. You were really aggressive then -you were like a dog with a bone in grilling people. I know, because I was mafia, and you scared me. This game, you don’t seem to be doing that at all. You even said that you didn’t like how someone else ( I think Oka) was being aggressive. It’s just not ringing true for me, so I’m leaving my vote with you, it’s a real one now.

I was suspicious of iceman a few posts back, especially as FF was defending him, and I felt that the ‘voting IC’ post was a bit strange, but I’m happy with the explanation and his later posts, and so think he’s town.

I have scum leans towards OkaPoka, because of the scumread and vote on me, and also Flicker, and strong town lean towards Nancy. Eragon has been pretty active since coming on and has put in a lot of effort, so I’m reading town on him.

These 2 posts, and a few others i didnt quote




also, this post pinged me a bit

Basically I think there's a good chance of Scum in FF and Flicker, don't know why that is difficult to understand.

Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF.

because, ive explained it before, but it seems like Scum that wants to pull off a mis-lynch, but is the only one SR'ing that person, so when someone else SR's that person, they are happy.

However, this is borderline TWTBAW
(i hate using TWTBAW as a reason, but i dont really see scum posting this because it draws negative attention)

Pretty sure I believe what I'm saying.

I'm throwing shade on you cuz I isod you.after abandoning Iceman case, think I found a decent scum chance here, hoping it would gain traction and yeah I guess I don't want to be lynched, but does anyone? As for the heat, I mean interacting directly.with others is the easiest way to develop reads on them for me

OK but you’re going down the wrong track with me, you should be directing your energies to someone who actually looks like scum. That’s why you’re looking a bit suspicious

i also dont like this post because it is another OMGUS by basically just brushing off "Oh, im not scum, look at someone else who looks like scum”

Uhm. I don't understand this approach from you at all Trinity. What.

i guess I’m just not understanding why OkaPoka is scum reading me, I don’t think I’ve given any reasons for it. I’m suggesting that we instead look for the actual scum.

Okay let's start here. What part about his scumread on you do you not understand?

OK, I found the question you asked. (A) If Oka is scum, I do understand why he’s looking for reasons to try to scum read me. (B) If he’s town, I don’t believe I look like mafia, as I think I have been contributing to the best of my ability to trying to find scum, and am very open (I think you called me guileless).

sometimes its hard, but if someone SR's you you just need to do what it takes to stop the SR.
ill admit Oka was being a bit hard on your activity, but that doesnt give you a reason to just brush it off by saying "look at someone else thats actually scum" and OMGUS

some people, including myself to an extent, feel that being overly defensive is indicative of scum alignment

Would it not be fair to say that town could be defensive too, perhaps if they’re feeling that their words are deliberately being twisted or they’re being made to look bad by scum trying to get a mislynch?

defensive is one thing

completely ignoring and brushing off an argument with an OMGUS and "im not wolf" is another thing entirely

Conclusion

Scum or TWTBAW.

i know this seems fencesitty, but i have a hard time distinguishing btwn those 2, if i had to choose i would say scum

[Eragon]

ill be around for like, another 5-10 minutes but i dont think i have time to do another ISO.

[Eragon]

recently i havent had time to really mark out my reads cuz ive been busy and will be.

would it help to throw out a semi-educated vote?

do you WANT me to throw out a semi-educated vote?

[Eragon]

http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 17&t=86482

this is a game i played a few weeks back as town, in the second post i believe, are ISO's, if you read my ISO the first true vote(non-RVS) is on page 12/17,

meaning nearly 125 of my posts went by without me placing a vote.(and even that one was just to make sure someone else wasnt lynched)

it is my norm to not place a vote until i have time to explain stuff, have a good solid reason, or i am confident in my read

[Eragon]

ST-{none}
T-{Formerfish, Nancy}
LT-{whyMafia, Quick, Flicker}
N-{}
NS-{oka, iceman, trinity}
S-{none}

[Eragon]

would it help to throw out a semi-educated vote?

do you WANT me to throw out a semi-educated vote?

like
I dont see this coming from town
ever


????

it doesn't matter what we want, you haven't committed to anything the entire game ... even when you weren't V/LA. Yeah, you said you don't believe in pressure votes, but you also called people scum and said two people were worth voting but you didn't wanna put em on L-2. They've been off L-2 for a long time and you've just posted content over and over. I've seen you make analysis. I've seen you call people scum. But you have 0 drive, and 0 attempts at flushing out scum reads. You're not committing to anything, and the fact that you say if we want a semi-educated vote?? like that's only out of self-preservation after nancy votes you. Why didn't you choose to vote in the first place, if you're willing to vote now?

like
I dont see how this isnt obvious sarcasm
ever

[Eragon]

yes.

in the second post of the game there are blue underlined things

You can click on my name and it brings you to an ISO

[Eragon]

im not sure if it would be against the rules to talk about?

[Eragon]

its ongoing but im dead

[Eragon]

ok

[Eragon]

i can link you my last scum game on my homesite but it was a while ago and not very good

[Eragon]

and while it probably came out awful, I dont take back anything I saidddddd

all good XD

[Eragon]

because i lost confidence by letting this game run.

[Eragon]

in the past few days since my activity has dropped i never had time to really catch-up, and then i dont feel confident, and its a cycle of doom until ihave time again

[Eragon]

i can and will respond to things specifically directed at me.

i only have an hour or so every night when im home and free, but it's gonna be hard to keep up with the overall thread and reads and shit like that

P;edit: im sorry, lets make another 20-ish posts so we can get you your pagetop

[Eragon]

page 1... RvS?

[Eragon]

wait... which 5 are you talking about?


the first posts of the game are in page 17.

My first real vote is on page 12

[Eragon]

yes, as LS.

their more recent posts struck me as sorta towny.

i posted that when they had ?about 9? posts in their ISO(or something i foget)

[Eragon]

1. did you read their ISO? thats why they were at L-2 within 4 hours of day start?
2. it was still page 5 talking about no spice/spice/spicier

[Eragon]

Donner was literally PoE.

i had spent N1 reading the 10 pages or so of game and finding all the spew from the lynched mafia(there was a lot)

(not to mention the fact that i sheeped a lot. which i feel bad about.)

[Eragon]

in the past few days since my activity has dropped i never had time to really catch-up, and then i dont feel confident, and its a cycle of doom until ihave time again

[Eragon]

basically.

i had been caught up, then my activity dropped due to life, and i never had time to do a full catchup, and i continuosly lost confidence

[Eragon]

and even when i was caught up that took all the time i had available

[Eragon]

My goal is to be super-available as soon as i get back from my v/LA and ISO everyone in the game to get good, solid reads

[Eragon]

I’ll be able to respond later tonight and have about an hour hopefully

Ask me questions/suggestions in the meantime so I can have a focus later on

[Eragon]

I was skimming through Trinity’s ISO, because I wanted to see their progression on me being their top scum…

In 671 they said they had me as an original townlean, but then moved down to null because my activity tapered off

On top of this, they have talked a lot about their activity being down and that they need time, but then they move me down to null because I lost activity…

Also, in 1157 they mark me as MOST LIKELY to flip mafia, without talking about me ONCE from 671 until 1157

I dont understand this progression at all and it irks me that someone moves me from town > Null because activity, then moves me to top scum without talking about me once.




I am likely gonna do an oka ISO skim, unless there is something else important, i ahve precisely 45 minutes to be active

[Eragon]

ok i'll ISO you and if i have more time i'll move to FF

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched. To me only scum would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything. If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones. Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

I think I'm a bit lost at the moment. I've lost my town read on Nancy..... Please Nancy come back to town. I wanna believe. She seems to have just faded a bit and is just poking holes in everything. Not necessarily a bad thing but, doesn't seem like the way things started at first.

Trinity, Go take a look at some of FFs other games. His play this game seems exactly like his town play. I'll go looking for one of his scum games and compare though because I've only played with town!FF.

Quick, I'm not sure what to ask you..... Have your reads changed? Not sure if the answer is worth it.

Oka, I don't mean to restate this but, you really seem to be looking for the easiest lynches instead of looking for scum. I don't like it. Also, what do you think about quick?

FF, do you think that Oka is a better lynch then Quick and why?

I am still developing reads. I probably will not get fully caught up and you saying that is Scummy is odd to me.

I agree with not-catching up being NAI, and that Iceman way over-reacted, but it kinda seemed like new-town perspective.
I’d say the whole interaction is likely NAI

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

Lets not get things twisted here. No one is scum reading you because you arent "caught up." People are scum reading you because you said that you were not going to catch up.

That's the same fucking thing, brah.

I'll do ISOs but I'm not going to read 400 posts when probably at least half of them are RVS anyways. I'm engaged now. I don't see people bringing up stuff from 5 pages ago anyway so it's not like I am missing a whole lot.

I still need to look at Stan1ey's progression.

I posted this as an overall of FF/Quick’s spat and shit
I am not gonna read it because its irritating, but I can easily say its never S v S, but T v S and T v T are possibilites.
I think T v S is the strongest possbility, but its not 100% for me

FF, you said ISOs are NAI. Is catching up AI?

Good point.

Vote: Quick

I don't believe that your read on Iceman is real.

OK.

You're saying that you disagree with him or he is bad therefore he is mafia, which is nonsense.

No, I am not saying any of that. Reread my case on Ice. I said he's Scum for pushing something as Scummy that is NAI.

Your entire case on him feels like shade and I don't like it one bit. Please catch up and provide thoughts on the game.

Have you not seen someone make a case on someone before or what? What about my case on him is Shade as opposed to an actual read? Shade to me is where you try and make someone look like Scum without voting them in hopes of changing someone in the game's mind on them or just weakening people's read on them as Town. I'm not doing that considering I am actually voting him for his shit reasons for voting me.

Why the hell should I do what you say? Frankly, I don't give a shit if you don't think my read on Ice is "real" I'm voting a SR get over it. You've talked about how "tone reads mean nothing" well you saying my read on Ice isn't real is basically the same fucking thing. Unless you can actually point to examples about how my read on him is "fake" I don't want to hear it.

I feel like you are just SRing me because I made an abrupt change of vote on someone. That's not Scummy - especially when I am still developing reads.

I don't really feel like getting blackmailed by votes just because I haven't fully caught up. Clearly, you're one of those people who isn't experienced enough to know that some people just play from where they replace in. Yeah, I know I am not doing myself any favors by coming across as so abrasive, but I don't really care at this point since the only legitimate (and I use the term loosely) reason why anyone has said I am Scummy is because I haven't fully caught up yet.

I can’t place my finger on it but this vote pings me

OK, I'm caught up, AMA

/S

Seriously though I really hate being blackmailed to catch up in a game. Shit is just not right.

In other news, not sold on FF being Town. He got early TRs from people and that seems to have stuck for not very good reasons I don't think. FF is a good player, not ready to clear them just based on... Whatever people were TRing him for, because from what I saw, didn't see a whole lot of Town tells and def felt like I was strongly disagreeing with some of the stuff he's said so far.

Disagreeing /=/ scum
And thinking anyone that disagrees with you is scum, is scummy

I am having second thoughts on Ice. Reason I was SRing him before is because a lot of his thought process in terms of reads is just plain wrong, but maybe he is actually just a newb and doesn't know any better.

Ex. Him saying nancy poking holes in everything is Scummy... That's actually pretty damn Townie IMO. His Thought process is overly black and white which is not something I would expect from someone playing in games with 20 PRs. I can explain this, but don't feel like it. I have a lot of experience all over the web so just trust me on this. Still, he has this kind of ignorance that I can't help comes from Town.

I think Quick was trying to find a way to back out of the ice SR, because calling someone towny because “ignorance that comes from town” is one of the weakest things I can see.

Quick Had been strongly SR’ing Ice, and could be seen as a hard OMGUS and trying to Lynch a newbie, in which case would throw considerable suspicion on Quick if Ice flipped town, so Quick backed off the read a bit with an easy read.

I don't think Oka is a good choice for lynching this phase. I'd rather PRs deal with him.

>translation
Either: Oka is town and his Lynch will spew scum from pushes and stuff

Or: Oka is my scum buddy and we need time to kill and/or find the PR’s before my buddy is lynched.

I say this because only mafia and the PR’s have some indication of what the true role-list is, and its possible for their to be either,
Weak PR’s or
Only 1 town PR or
Im not sure on this but maybe non-invest PR
Meaning oka would be safer than being lynched D1

Reads

Town

nanacy, Trinity

Town Lean

Ice, Oka

Null

Flicker, WhyMafia, Eragon

Scum Lean

FF

I guess I can't really justify giving a Town Lean to WhyMafia. Flicker fits the same category, so out of my Nulls, Eragon is probably the Scummiest.

Fair

DAMMIT YOU STOLE MY PAGE TOP
that's definitely evidence that you are scum *points finger*

Reusing the same joke is kinda Scummy.

Discuss.

No

Because if you are scum, we lynch me today, you can nk one of those two and worst case scenario the other person is scum, nobody here is going to have the guts to oppose you and your bloc.

I didn't realize I was on the Town block…

This post pinged me a bit, seems like scum surprised that they are being TR’d by someone

Trinity is creeping up on me as being Scummy now. It seems whenever Trinity is asked something, they completely disappear. Very suspect.

@nancy, what do you mean when you say I am not doing anything? I feel like I have been pushing my SRs just fine, offering my reasoning on why I TR the people I do. What do you want from me?

Slight SR for someone’s activity, yuck.

About the wagon stuff people were mentioning earlier...

If a wagon on one player continually dies, it can be a sign that they're mafia because their partners may be pushing against the lynch, and because mafia are more likely to support town lynches, making it easier for them to go through. This is why you should look for mafia on the wagon of a mafia lynch if the lynch seems to go through too easily.

If the thread dies when there is a consensus lynch, it can often mean that the lynch is a miss because if it weren't a miss then mafia would be actively trying to save their partner. This isn't always the case, because mafia may be bussing, mafia may simply not know what to do, mafia may be inactive, or other more contextual things. It's also less of a thing when there are only 2 mafia.

People were talking about no one defending Oka, but that's not really how you should look at it. Mafia defend town lynches too. And they don't always defend their partners. If no one is defending OkaPoka, then you have to look at who is pushing on him, who is simply abstaining, and why. Are any of the people pushing him bussing? Are any of the people abstaining acting like they know he's a mislynch? Are any of the people off wagon doing anything to try to dismantle the wagon?

That's kind of what I've been looking at and I think the way FF jumped on deserves a look in the world where Oka is town because it was a kind of slimy thing where he built up to it by arguing with Oka then, when he had the fuel, he pounced. There wasn't a natural progression there from his previous read on Oka, I don't think. I think the way that Quick has been idly sitting in thread and doing things like throwing shade on Trinity makes sense in a world where Oka/Trinity is v/v and he wants to capitalize on Oka's townflip by pushing a Trinity lynch. I think Iceman's treatment of the wagon is just super town all around, and I think WhyMafia's treatment of the wagon has been pretty good too.

You didn't say anything about Aragorn, why not?

GRRRR… you got my name wrong, you must be scum(joke)

But seriously, why only me out of anyone else that wasn’t mentioned

overall conclusion: Slight scum
i dont like the 180 backing off of some people
Wanting to engage with me yet not asking me questions is ???
as i read it, slight buddying of Oka,
all the shit with FF that i never read
OMGUS'ing because of being SR for not-catching up(while i agree with the sentiment, a strong OMGUS, especially on a noob, is wolfy, and i think you realized this and is why you backed off.)
and a few other individual pingy posts

[Eragon]

jeezus a full page while i wrote an ISO

damn

[Eragon]

i'll make a reads-list now, then likely lay down a vote
*cue fanfare of trumpets and singing angels*

[Eragon]

TT-{Nancy}
T-{Flicker, WhyMafia}
NT-{FF, Iceman}
LS-{Quick, Oka}
S-{Trinity}


will look at votecount to make sure no hammy :3

[Eragon]

intent to L-1 Trinity?

also i can give a short explanation on specific reads if you want, but i have like <5 minutes left

[Eragon]

That was directed at Nancy
@eragon why trinity?

because they are my top SR, one reason(and one of the bigger ones) is that they have no progression on there reads, and yes, it might seem like a bit of an OMGUS, but they dont MENTION my name one between putting me from Lean Town to Null to Top Scum

[Eragon]

I still have a sick feeling in my stomach putting someone to L-1

VOTE: Trinity

This is L-1. No more votey

[Eragon]

nobody's being abusive and talk about being abusive is wasting time and is going to get this game to 100 pages

Plus it makes me wanna soak my eyes in bleach

[Eragon]

OkaPoka (3) - IcemanCh, WhyMafia, TrinityNZ
TrinityNZ (3) - OkaPoka, Flicker, nancy
Formerfish (1) - Quick
Quick (1) - Formerfish

Not Voting (1) - Eragon

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.


Hm.

FF pulling off the Oka wagon when Trinity put it to L-1 is definitely a Thing.

I'm not sure if it's clearing for FF or not. I feel like it probably should be? But I'm somehow not convinced.

so im going off this so i hope it was correcy

[Eragon]

Im out for now.

my V/LA should be ending late tomorrow, finally :3

[Eragon]

Oof as soon as I got online LOL

[Eragon]

I still have a sick feeling in my stomach putting someone to L-1

VOTE: Trinity

This is L-1. No more votey

Eragon, you’ve been on V/LA, so do you feel that you have a really good read on me as scum? If not, please have another look, as this wagon on me is going to end in a mislynch. If you’re town, you will care about that.

Based on me ISO'ing you and that progression post I saw, yes I feel good about your SR.

On top of the fact, more often than not, the "this wagon on me is a mis-lynch" "I am town, look at scum" "if your town you will care" come from scum
Overall I find too much AtE very wolfy

[Eragon]

wtf was that nightkill

Oka stop acting like your confirmed town

what the hell is your progression on Nancy?

why did you talk about reasons for FF to not be scum on the wagon but not me?

and I didnt hammer/vote you because im not scum, and trinity was a stronger SR

where im at rn is. POE-{Iceman, Oka, quick, FF, WhyMafia}
and leaning
{oka, quick, FF}

[Eragon]

VOTE: Quick

explained yesterday

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched. To me only scum would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything. If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones. Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

I think I'm a bit lost at the moment. I've lost my town read on Nancy..... Please Nancy come back to town. I wanna believe. She seems to have just faded a bit and is just poking holes in everything. Not necessarily a bad thing but, doesn't seem like the way things started at first.

Trinity, Go take a look at some of FFs other games. His play this game seems exactly like his town play. I'll go looking for one of his scum games and compare though because I've only played with town!FF.

Quick, I'm not sure what to ask you..... Have your reads changed? Not sure if the answer is worth it.

Oka, I don't mean to restate this but, you really seem to be looking for the easiest lynches instead of looking for scum. I don't like it. Also, what do you think about quick?

FF, do you think that Oka is a better lynch then Quick and why?

I am still developing reads. I probably will not get fully caught up and you saying that is Scummy is odd to me.

I agree with not-catching up being NAI, and that Iceman way over-reacted, but it kinda seemed like new-town perspective.
I’d say the whole interaction is likely NAI

I'm not a newbie....

never said you were, meant Iceman's interaction.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

Lets not get things twisted here. No one is scum reading you because you arent "caught up." People are scum reading you because you said that you were not going to catch up.

That's the same fucking thing, brah.

I'll do ISOs but I'm not going to read 400 posts when probably at least half of them are RVS anyways. I'm engaged now. I don't see people bringing up stuff from 5 pages ago anyway so it's not like I am missing a whole lot.

I still need to look at Stan1ey's progression.

I posted this as an overall of FF/Quick’s spat and shit
I am not gonna read it because its irritating, but I can easily say its never S v S, but T v S and T v T are possibilites.
I think T v S is the strongest possbility, but its not 100% for me

Oh, I agree it's not TvT. Clearly, it's TvS.

FF, you said ISOs are NAI. Is catching up AI?

Good point.

No one else said anything about this...

your point?

Vote: Quick

I don't believe that your read on Iceman is real.

OK.

You're saying that you disagree with him or he is bad therefore he is mafia, which is nonsense.

No, I am not saying any of that. Reread my case on Ice. I said he's Scum for pushing something as Scummy that is NAI.

Your entire case on him feels like shade and I don't like it one bit. Please catch up and provide thoughts on the game.

Have you not seen someone make a case on someone before or what? What about my case on him is Shade as opposed to an actual read? Shade to me is where you try and make someone look like Scum without voting them in hopes of changing someone in the game's mind on them or just weakening people's read on them as Town.

I'm not doing that considering I am actually voting him for his shit reasons for voting me.

Why the hell should I do what you say? Frankly, I don't give a shit if you don't think my read on Ice is "real" I'm voting a SR get over it.

You've talked about how "tone reads mean nothing" well you saying my read on Ice isn't real is basically the same fucking thing.

Unless you can actually point to examples about how my read on him is "fake" I don't want to hear it.

I feel like you are just SRing me because I made an abrupt change of vote on someone. That's not Scummy - especially when I am still developing reads.

I don't really feel like getting blackmailed by votes just because I haven't fully caught up. Clearly, you're one of those people who isn't experienced enough to know that some people just play from where they replace in. Yeah, I know I am not doing myself any favors by coming across as so abrasive,

but I don't really care at this point since the only legitimate (and I use the term loosely) reason why anyone has said I am Scummy is because I haven't fully caught up yet.

I can’t place my finger on it but this vote pings me

Try. Why does it ping you?

*side not* I meant post, not vote
{bolded points in post}
basically an OMGUS
A bit of shade

from a bit of experience, when people say "there isnt a legitimate reason to SR me" I more often find that flips scum than town

OK, I'm caught up, AMA

/S

Seriously though I really hate being blackmailed to catch up in a game. Shit is just not right.

In other news, not sold on FF being Town. He got early TRs from people and that seems to have stuck for not very good reasons I don't think. FF is a good player, not ready to clear them just based on...

Whatever people were TRing him for, because from what I saw, didn't see a whole lot of Town tells and def felt like

I was strongly disagreeing with some of the stuff he's said so far.

Disagreeing /=/ scum
And thinking anyone that disagrees with you is scum, is scummy

That wasn't my poit at all.

then whats that

I am having second thoughts on Ice. Reason I was SRing him before is because a lot of his thought process in terms of reads is just plain wrong, but maybe he is actually just a newb and doesn't know any better.

Ex. Him saying nancy poking holes in everything is Scummy... That's actually pretty damn Townie IMO. His Thought process is overly black and white which is not something I would expect from someone playing in games with 20 PRs. I can explain this, but don't feel like it. I have a lot of experience all over the web so just trust me on this. Still, he has this kind of ignorance that I can't help comes from Town.

I think Quick was trying to find a way to back out of the ice SR, because calling someone towny because “ignorance that comes from town” is one of the weakest things I can see.

Quick Had been strongly SR’ing Ice, and could be seen as a hard OMGUS and trying to Lynch a newbie, in which case would throw considerable suspicion on Quick if Ice flipped town, so Quick backed off the read a bit with an easy read.

Uhh... So I can't reevaluate people? What's your read on Ice and what's my Scum motivation for changing the read?

I guess I did jump the gun there a bit, I just overall didnt like the feel of the progression off the SR.

My read on Ice is noob town and your scum motivation for changing the read is so that you dont get pushed if he flips town

I don't think Oka is a good choice for lynching this phase. I'd rather PRs deal with him.

>translation
Either: Oka is town and his Lynch will spew scum from pushes and stuff

Or: Oka is my scum buddy and we need time to kill and/or find the PR’s before my buddy is lynched.

I say this because only mafia and the PR’s have some indication of what the true role-list is, and its possible for their to be either,
Weak PR’s or
Only 1 town PR or
Im not sure on this but maybe non-invest PR
Meaning oka would be safer than being lynched D1

I don't see how being aware there are PRs in the game is AI.. I made an unconventionaly stance, sure, but why is that Scummy?

I dont like it b/c mafia probably has a pretty good idea of what the role list is, so they know if they are pretty much safe from being caught by a PR.
in that case, you would say "Let pr's deal with him" to make sure that he will live for another few days, while you can possibly kill the PRs

Reads

Town

nanacy, Trinity

Town Lean

Ice, Oka

Null

Flicker, WhyMafia, Eragon

Scum Lean

FF

I guess I can't really justify giving a Town Lean to WhyMafia. Flicker fits the same category, so out of my Nulls, Eragon is probably the Scummiest.

Fair

Not sure what you are saying "Fair" to.

just a passing thought. put your readlist here to mark it down, and commented "fair" because the last sentence.
Cant justify, flicker category, Eragon scummiest. etc...

DAMMIT YOU STOLE MY PAGE TOP
that's definitely evidence that you are scum *points finger*

Reusing the same joke is kinda Scummy.

Discuss.

No

It kinda is tho...

it kinda is a joke tho...

so it kinda is NAI

Because if you are scum, we lynch me today, you can nk one of those two and worst case scenario the other person is scum, nobody here is going to have the guts to oppose you and your bloc.

I didn't realize I was on the Town block…

This post pinged me a bit, seems like scum surprised that they are being TR’d by someone

What happened to the SvS theory between me and Oka?

2 things.
1. what made you bring this up about this post?
2. at best its a theory. Theory's aren't fact and I would be stupid to rely on a single theory that I think solves the game

Trinity is creeping up on me as being Scummy now. It seems whenever Trinity is asked something, they completely disappear. Very suspect.

@nancy, what do you mean when you say I am not doing anything? I feel like I have been pushing my SRs just fine, offering my reasoning on why I TR the people I do. What do you want from me?

Slight SR for someone’s activity, yuck.

It's not about how much activity, it's about when.

so angleshooting? Also yuck

About the wagon stuff people were mentioning earlier...

If a wagon on one player continually dies, it can be a sign that they're mafia because their partners may be pushing against the lynch, and because mafia are more likely to support town lynches, making it easier for them to go through. This is why you should look for mafia on the wagon of a mafia lynch if the lynch seems to go through too easily.

If the thread dies when there is a consensus lynch, it can often mean that the lynch is a miss because if it weren't a miss then mafia would be actively trying to save their partner. This isn't always the case, because mafia may be bussing, mafia may simply not know what to do, mafia may be inactive, or other more contextual things. It's also less of a thing when there are only 2 mafia.

People were talking about no one defending Oka, but that's not really how you should look at it. Mafia defend town lynches too. And they don't always defend their partners. If no one is defending OkaPoka, then you have to look at who is pushing on him, who is simply abstaining, and why. Are any of the people pushing him bussing? Are any of the people abstaining acting like they know he's a mislynch? Are any of the people off wagon doing anything to try to dismantle the wagon?

That's kind of what I've been looking at and I think the way FF jumped on deserves a look in the world where Oka is town because it was a kind of slimy thing where he built up to it by arguing with Oka then, when he had the fuel, he pounced. There wasn't a natural progression there from his previous read on Oka, I don't think. I think the way that Quick has been idly sitting in thread and doing things like throwing shade on Trinity makes sense in a world where Oka/Trinity is v/v and he wants to capitalize on Oka's townflip by pushing a Trinity lynch. I think Iceman's treatment of the wagon is just super town all around, and I think WhyMafia's treatment of the wagon has been pretty good too.

You didn't say anything about Aragorn, why not?

GRRRR… you got my name wrong, you must be scum(joke)

But seriously, why only me out of anyone else that wasn’t mentioned

Because you were the only one I thought of who was so... outside of combat???

ok

overall conclusion: Slight scum
i dont like the 180 backing off of some people
Wanting to engage with me yet not asking me questions is ???
as i read it, slight buddying of Oka,
all the shit with FF that i never read
OMGUS'ing because of being SR for not-catching up(while i agree with the sentiment, a strong OMGUS, especially on a noob, is wolfy, and i think you realized this and is why you backed off.)
and a few other individual pingy posts

You gave 1 example of me making a 180 (I think).

does it matter how many? Do I need to find 2 + wolfy 180's before you'll admit to being scum?

You are never around. I can't help that and neither can you. I am engaging with you now.

ok, but you could ask question while im gone and I would answer

How does the buddying fit in with the SvS read between us?

buddying = S v S no?

I don't understand how it makes sense that an OMGUS is Scummy only against a newbie?

its not Scummy ONLY against a newbie.

Have you never SR a person who made a bad push on you before?

No.

[Eragon]

wtf was that nightkill

Oka stop acting like your confirmed town

what the hell is your progression on Nancy?

why did you talk about reasons for FF to not be scum on the wagon but not me?

and I didnt hammer/vote you because im not scum, and trinity was a stronger SR

where im at rn is. POE-{Iceman, Oka, quick, FF, WhyMafia}
and leaning
{oka, quick, FF}

i can act like im confirmed town when im speaking my inner rambles, those posts were me thinking at loud, if you dont want me to say what im thinking and do edits i guess i can be more reserved but noone else was talking so i needed to breathe life into the game

things aren't making sense with nancy!scum so thats my progression

because formerfish has more reasons for me to doubt his scum potential and i think finding is alignment is more important than yours soz

ok

suppose

Finding one alignment is rarely more important than finding all alignments.
and the fact that you dont want to find the alignment of the person your pushing(me) is wolfy, as if you dont care if I flip town or scum

[Eragon]

If you think Trinity is a mislynch, then don't hammer her, Iceman. Jeez. What the heckie.

That is silly. She is town but, getting her flip will help reveal scum.

Odd that quick hasn't hammered like he said he would and he's letting me do it.......

VOTE: trinity

I really hated this post.

seems like TMI on the "she is town" part
If you "know" they are town then why the fuck would you Lynch them
to reveal scum? and yet you haven't said anything about what that Lynch revealed?
and throwing that shade on Quick just sets up a nice little push for you doesn't it?

[Eragon]

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I have suspicions of Nancy... bet you could all predict that. I also still suspect Oka still. I really hate D2 because it's the day that everyone starts to look like scum to me.

VOTE: Oka

VOTE: Eragon

what happened here Ice?

you go from voting Oka, then without any progression you vote me directly after Nancy votes, and put me to L-1.

[Eragon]

think i null-scumread him because he wasnt doing much but didnt want to lynch him because vla business

nk makes me think its eragon tho for dumb and good reasons

so activity is AI?

Dumb reasons:

whoever killed flicker probably wasnt paying too much attention
eragon was kinda active on other forum

good reasons:

seemed like nancy was convinced in flicker/eragon team, killing flicker might clear eragon from his perspective
hindsight makes his trinity read kinda lazy, didn't really push her
in fact i dont think eragon did much interactions, just commenting and going

Lol @paying attention.
I was semi-active here during the nights and I was on at EoD(when I voted and stuff) and I had made reads on flicker the whole day.
plus, putting that out there is unnecessary shade
(yes, I see "dumb" reasons, just responding anyways)

how does that work? Me killing someone someone thinks im team with does nothing.
Team-based reads isnt the only way to find scum...

(last sentence see below)

I don't like Nancy near the end of D1. She seemed kinda strange about the wagons, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't like her shifting of wagons, and wishy-washiness, so close to deadline. I feel like Oka's reasoning is relatively weak, and made to explain his NK on Flicker to get Eragon dead.

I want to see what Eragon is like today though.

I hope to be much more active and contentful
as I've said before I'm trying to not be to confrontatonal and take my game down a notch, but with late-game comes more confidence, so im hoping to be able to provide good content, pushes, reads, etc... while staying under a level head.
(this apples for Oka's post too)

[Eragon]

I hate how Oka waggled out of a Lynch multiple times ... when nobody really addressed how he ws town (correct me if I'm wrong)
@people who went away from Oka - can you re-itterate why?

its because I had a stronger SR on Quick and Trinity.
(I know its not directed at me b/c I was never on Oka but Im responding to why I didnt vote Oka)

Oka, scum could easily have been afraid to scumread you because you were so busy in thread and willing to go up against anyone.

I'll talk about the nk after Quick does.

Vote: Eragon

elaborate please?

See Oka, all that VCA you did? It's all predicated under the fact you're town, and the results from the VCA confused tf out of me. See, that analysis logically would make sense if you were scum and the wagons got manipulated to switch to trinity. But in that case, I'm still confused bc I can't see who you're partner would be.

I mind meld with this a lot.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. I have suspicions of Nancy... bet you could all predict that. I also still suspect Oka still. I really hate D2 because it's the day that everyone starts to look like scum to me.

VOTE: Oka

VOTE: Eragon

what happened here Ice?

you go from voting Oka, then without any progression you vote me directly after Nancy votes, and put me to L-1.

What do you actually think of the points made against you made by other people? I feel like you are not addressing them, just like WM is doing against me, just like nancy is doing against me, just like I am doing to you... OK this game is kinda fucked up rn...

I'll get to addressing my case on you shortly.

P-Edit: Ninja'd I guess.

so far I haven't seen many points against me.

correct me if im wrong
main reasons are
Activity-which is normally NAI?
Not throwing down a vote- explained
Not conflicting- explained and am gonna be better about pushing/content while not being argumentative
Night kill- previous post.

[Eragon]

if I get your question right, yes

[Eragon]

and why is having a long day bad?

[Eragon]

I forgot to comment on Eragon. Was gonna wait and make it a big proper post. He may have spewed Iceman town by saying Iceman was in his PoE then calling him newbtown then saying he was scumreading him. They probably maybe aren't together. All of his posts that I read so far seem really agenda-y and his NKA feels like he has an informed PoV. Would be flabbergasted if he ever flipped town atm, and I only bust that word out for really special occasions.

In post 954 I had Iceman as a nullscum read
Then on 1261 I put him as nulltown because I looked the game over again and realiazed that a lot of his stuff was from a towny noob point of view.

And I put null-Town in my PoE, but then I put another PoS saying leaning these 3, and he isn’t one of those.
I fail to see your point.

When did I make a NKA???

Can you explain what about my posts are agenda-y?

[Eragon]

catching up now

[Eragon]

Wait, eragon, is the bolded text in 1494 your commentary or is that part of the quote?

Pedit dude I'm on my phone, it's impossible to search for it, ctrl+f flicker in my iso, I don't mention her that many times

comments

That was hyperbole, Oka, lol. If someone asks you not to hammer and you ignore their request and hammer, that's a pretty big fuck you gesture

problem is i feel like that hyperbole served no purpose other than to be emotionally manipulative

Man I read iceman's hammer again and it's just so so fucking bad. Maybe I shouldn't clear him for being completely insane. Ughhhhh

Hey iceman, what scum did trinity's flip reveal?

Pedit I'm sorry what? I have emotions, Oka. Expressing emotions is not manipulation. I'm trying reaaaaally hard to keep it cool here despite how I tilted I am. Do not get what you are seeing at all

all this talk about emotion, while i feel it as a person, in the game...

i remembr nancy telling quick to not let the emotions get a hold of him.
then, nancy said(irrcc) that getting tilted is actually fairly towny.
And guess what nancy does? says shes tilted and emotional.
i feel its a towncred grab, and i dont know why nancy would want a towncred grab, but thats the way im reading this

Like, Oka, do you understand how incredibly frustrating your play is for me right now? You tunneled on my strongest town read yesterday and convinced everyone that she was mafia to the point that even I doubted my read and started to wonder if I was being stupid. And then with WM's help I realized that no, I wasn't being stupid, but it was too late, you had already trashed her and there was nothing I could do. And then today you start pushing on me, of all people, and for nonsense reasons. After everything you did to trash day 1 for me. After I put more effort into the game than anyone else. Did more to solve than anyone else. Went through the trouble of getting to town on you. Are you actually trying to drive me insane, or what?

Pedit no dude. I don't get tilted as scum. I nearly replaced out during the night phase, my girlfriend tried to convince me to do it but I refused to because I have a stupid sense of obligation. I cried when trinity was getting lynched because I knew she was going to flip town and I was helpless to stop it and it's against my process to hard defend people on day 1. I lost my mind and started pushing on flicker, because i just couldn't deal. I am 100% done with this site and I'm leaving after this game because even newbie games aren't safe anymore. Like yeah I shouldn't be posting this because it's a bad example to set as IC and I'm supposed to the one in control but emotions are part of the game and it's incredibly insensitive of you to push on me after everything that's happened and then say that it's scummy that I'm frustrated

Yep, there it is.
"I dont get tilted as scum"
right after
"Im tilted"

obvious grab for towncred and i dont like it from nancy

No, quick, I'm leaving because the site is so toxic it makes me toxic. I'm leaving because the only people who are left play like RC. I'm leaving because even newbies are toxic now and there's nothing good or safe left on the site.

What in the world does "doing it on purpose or something" mean?

It's depressing because WM is a friend, I love the way he plays and he was my rock this game.

To be brutally honest here, the toxicity on this site probably has a lot to do with the leadership on this site. The meta they are trying to form is not really concerned with "hurt feeling" IMO. I find a lot of the people on this site to be kinda elitist pricks who are always reminiscing of the good old days, but I digress. It's too bad you have to leave. I think you have probably made this site more than it actually is. It's a site devoted to a game where people argue about stuff. Well, that's probably a pretty crude simplification of what some of the people on this site would say, but whatever.

By doing it on purpose, I feel like you are pushing a lot of different people intentionally. Like it's not just based on how you are feeling about things, but more like you are going into the game telling yourself it's some sort of goal to push anywhere and everywhere. Like it's a conscious effort rather than it happening naturally, for a very much lack of a better term.

Sorry WM left, it was probably him taking what I said about his game as me criticizing him. Sorry about that.

this site is less toxic than some(*cough* homesite*cough* Cancer*cough*) but i understand how you feel.
(sorry i fucked up quotes this was response to nancy)

Honestly, I don't know what to do anymore.

If nancy is indeed town, then I guess I'm a major asshole, being the cause of making her cry and leave this site after this game because of my play. I just don't know if I can handle that. But if I let that influence my decision to play this game, I feel like then I'm no longer adequately playing to my wincon.

This situation with nancy has already compromised my ability to play this game to the best of my ability in a way. I have thoughts I want to put down, things I want to say, but I'm worried that in the potential situation that nancy is town, I'm probably just going to make her feel worse and just be a bigger ass.

So yeah I just made a post announcing I'm going to be useless. Hope the rest of town can sort this out. There should be 4 fully capable town players still.

i think you are doing fine, dont just slack off...

Honestly now that I'm thinking about it, if you were an extremely dominant, vocal, and good player(maybe even an IC), an early vt claim might be a really good play as scum to make it seem obvious why you weren't the target for the nightkill.

But I'm not good so you know I'm town

lol

If you didn't tunnel and cleaned up your process some you'd be a fine player.

i dont like this post either,
telling someone not to tunnel is bad.
tunneling is part of the game and one of the ways to catch scum.
if you dont tunnel, you might not catch scum, you might lose the game.
Telling someone not to tunnel gives me a headache

@nancy- i like iceman for town, and you.

I feel like Sky could be scum just based off her reads list, but only for the slightest and most convoluted reason, so it doesnt even really play yet.

I think that Quick is scum and has been trying to play up the AtE and sympathy angles when it comes to me. Says hes trying to re-evaluate me, but doesnt really want to interact with me.

Eragon could be but that would mean that im definitely seeing a town!Oka which im just not 100% on board with yet.

So I guess I'm here

VOTE: Quick

Eyy im mind-melding here, but for different reasons

I didn't hammer early. I stated my intention. I gave more then enough time for anyone to say stop or do something differnt. When it came down to the final moments I again announced and made my intentions very clear.

You can't misconstrue that into a LOLhammer.

I said way before that I wanted flicker and eragon to catch up before hammer. Which they had just started doing, when you hammered. Right after I said don't hammer and you told me to go fuck myself.

Jesus I hate this site.

This is a straight lie.

spicy?

That was hyperbole, Oka, lol. If someone asks you not to hammer and you ignore their request and hammer, that's a pretty big fuck you gesture

This is also not true.

its how nancy recieved it.
irs neither true nor false
its perception

Like, Oka, do you understand how incredibly frustrating your play is for me right now? You tunneled on my strongest town read yesterday and convinced everyone that she was mafia to the point that even I doubted my read and started to wonder if I was being stupid. And then with WM's help I realized that no, I wasn't being stupid, but it was too late, you had already trashed her and there was nothing I could do. And then today you start pushing on me, of all people, and for nonsense reasons. After everything you did to trash day 1 for me. After I put more effort into the game than anyone else. Did more to solve than anyone else. Went through the trouble of getting to town on you. Are you actually trying to drive me insane, or what?

Pedit no dude. I don't get tilted as scum. I nearly replaced out during the night phase, my girlfriend tried to convince me to do it but I refused to because I have a stupid sense of obligation. I cried when trinity was getting lynched because I knew she was going to flip town and I was helpless to stop it and it's against my process to hard defend people on day 1. I lost my mind and started pushing on flicker, because i just couldn't deal. I am 100% done with this site and I'm leaving after this game because even newbie games aren't safe anymore. Like yeah I shouldn't be posting this because it's a bad example to set as IC and I'm supposed to the one in control but emotions are part of the game and it's incredibly insensitive of you to push on me after everything that's happened and then say that it's scummy that I'm frustrated

Not trying to be harsh or mean. Cause, talking about real life stuff is good and this a game and we shouldn't get frustrated over it but......

You're AN IC. You know how games are played. You know how everyone has to assume anything said in the game is just the game. Nothing in this game is personal. This is a complete scum post. You're doing an emotional appeal to get a town read. This is wrong and you know it. If the game really is a stress for you then I'm not sure why you're an IC and I'm sorry for being harsh. But, as a town player I have to assume post like this are coming from scum. It's just how the game is. I have to assume anyone can lie and that anything can be used. There is no rule on this site that you can't give a sob story as scum.

IF it's a real situation I am truly sorry that you feel that way. This is after all a game.

I do however as a town game player have to take this post as fake.

i was reading this, ok... ok... ok... WHAT THE HELLLLL IS THIS???
"I do however as a

town

player"
you just have to throw this in. of course.
then
"I have to read this post as fake"
Where is the progression from Town -> fake post?
and how is the post fake?>
i can see it being a towncred grab, but never fake.

honestly even nancy's tiltedness looks town to me

i dont see scum nancy desperately trying to save trinity at the end of day two, it's an interesting progression that would be so weird for scum to make

didn't get a lot of sleep cause my foster kitties are butts so im not sure when ill do a full catchup post

\

town for having foster kitties :3

[Eragon]

i havent quite caught up yet, because i got caught up(oooooo) doing other things, i now feel like a terrible person ;_;

[Eragon]

So I don't get it. We've a melt down because why? I'm seriously not trying to be harsh but..... I'm struggling to understand how two players voting someone means the sky is falling. Maybe, I'm just being insensitive but, I'm really trying to understand.

I'm down for a Nancy lynch or an Eragon lynch. I'm not convinced on Quick yet.

Ice's progression onto nancy is super out of left field to me actually and I'm not sure what to make of it yet

on a side note im thinking about a formerfish lynch, what about everyone else?

I think most of us agree on Eragon so maybe that's where we should focus and then sort the rest out tomorrow.

So I don't get it. We've a melt down because why? I'm seriously not trying to be harsh but..... I'm struggling to understand how two players voting someone means the sky is falling. Maybe, I'm just being insensitive but, I'm really trying to understand.

I'm down for a Nancy lynch or an Eragon lynch. I'm not convinced on Quick yet.

If you think that it was because I got 2 votes then yeah you don't get it.

nancy if you end up playin mafia on a different site can i play a game or two with you there? You seem rlly cool after reading through these ~70 pages!

I might put my vote on eragon? I think I have a scum game and town game complete with him (newbie 1879 and donner party) so I might meta dive first and stuff

quick is mostly PoE at this point so I probably won't vote there today?

I don't think anyone has the scumrange to play like nancy has as town so at this point my vote is never going there

still townreading ff so my vote isn't going there rn

sky sorry u rolled scum

me too ):

Sky, make post about reads please. Reasoning.

Also, Iceman is lock town.

Also... I don't think I'm actually out of my scum range. I don't remember all of my posts and there might be points where I pass it but idts. I would even make those ate posts as mafia tbqh. I don't really have a scum range, that's not how you read me. I'm town because the way I've played would be beyond stupid if I were mafia, I could literally never end game with that day 1.

Oh hey, iceman still didn't talk about what scum got revealed from his hammer. Fancy that

me think today especially formerfish no care about what happen

me think formerfish want town to be poo poo

me think formerfish is ok with popular idea

if me right about formerfish be bad then me think eragon is town

me think formerfish no change meta for realsies

me think formerfish no desire to solve game

me think its possible for any alignment to make any post tho

me confused

me need example

me like Oka :3

[Eragon]

FUUCK THAT QUOTE THING

I DIDNT EVEN KNOW I HAD THOSE AAAA CRAP FML

[Eragon]

So I don't get it. We've a melt down because why? I'm seriously not trying to be harsh but..... I'm struggling to understand how two players voting someone means the sky is falling. Maybe, I'm just being insensitive but, I'm really trying to understand.

I'm down for a Nancy lynch or an Eragon lynch. I'm not convinced on Quick yet.

did you even read the thread? nancy wasnt getting tilted because she was voted...

Ice's progression onto nancy is super out of left field to me actually and I'm not sure what to make of it yet

agree

on a side note im thinking about a formerfish lynch, what about everyone else?

im down with it because i think it clears up Quick's alignment even more than my read already
If FF is town, quick hardens into Lock-scum for me
If FF is scum, i might have to re-look at Quick

I think most of us agree on Eragon so maybe that's where we should focus and then sort the rest out tomorrow.

this is a terrible mind-set to focus on one person for a whole day and do nothing else...
its obvious procrastination and slacking.

nancy if you end up playin mafia on a different site can i play a game or two with you there? You seem rlly cool after reading through these ~70 pages!

I might put my vote on eragon? I think I have a scum game and town game complete with him (newbie 1879 and donner party) so I might meta dive first and stuff

quick is mostly PoE at this point so I probably won't vote there today?

I don't think anyone has the scumrange to play like nancy has as town so at this point my vote is never going there

still townreading ff so my vote isn't going there rn

if you think you decide that im scum do you mind actually giving reasons for it.
This goes for anyone that thinks im scum

post 1668, Skygazer"]me too ):[/quote]

Sky, make post about reads please. Reasoning.
"In post 1671, nancy"]Also... I don't think I'm actually out of my scum range. I don't remember all of my posts and there might be points where I pass it but idts. I would even make those ate posts as mafia tbqh. I don't really have a scum range, that's not how you read me. I'm town because the way I've played would be beyond stupid if I were mafia, I could literally never end game with that day 1.

The person in question says "Im out of my scumrange so im not scum:
"i dont really have a scumrange tho"
"but im not in it so im town"
>???
>Profit?

Oh hey, iceman still didn't talk about what scum got revealed from his hammer. Fancy that

lol

me think today especially formerfish no care about what happen

me think formerfish want town to be poo poo

me think formerfish is ok with popular idea

if me right about formerfish be bad then me think eragon is town

lol

me think formerfish no change meta for realsies

me think formerfish no desire to solve game

im loving this posting.

me think its possible for any alignment to make any post tho

me confused

me need example

me like Oka :3

[Eragon]

all caught up AMA.

i will say this,

my read on Oka has changed drastically.
i now think he is town

[Eragon]

Me thinks ur last pages poosts dont come from scum.

me think you are natural

natural is good and earthy

earthy is where town be

town be good

you good.

[Eragon]

also quick i finally understnad you when you said you voted iceman for the stupid read...

And i get it...

[Eragon]

also quick i finally understnad you when you said you voted iceman for the stupid read...

And i get it...

Hmm? What are you referring to? I can't even remember what I had for breakfast, let alone an argument I made a while ago.

on my ISO of you i mentioned that i didnt like your OMGUS on Ice, then coming off it with a townread.
then you said, "Have you ever voted someone for voting you for a stupid reason"
I was like "No"

and now i finally understand what you mean and your PoV on that LOL

[Eragon]

T-{Oka, Skygazer, Nancy}
Depending on other flip one is Strong town-{[FF/Quick}
S-{[FF/Quick], Iceman}

in terms of strength.

Oka
Nancy
Skygazer
[FF/Quick]
Iceman

[Eragon]

every Oka post makes me smile :3

[Eragon]

that argument stuff.

it doesnt 100% make quick scum, but it solidifies my read on Quick.

im good with lynching in [FF/Quick] for the clear-up, or Iceman for the scum

i never see it being SvS, and TvT is hard to stomach too, especially with my reads on them

[Eragon]

Spoiler: You Shall Not Pass

i gtg now. gnight.

be back around same time tommorow

[Eragon]

me say Bye to oka

[Eragon]

It’s funny, all this talk

“Eragon is scum, he’s scumread by most of the game, we should lynch him now and figure out the rest later”

Nancy is literally the only person to make any sort of case type thing on me, as well as WhyMafia on the vote thing, but that was proved and he isn’t in the game.

@oka, I’ve given my quick case earlier

FF case will come when I reach nirvana

[Eragon]

If we look at pure name recogintion and participation. Would anyone disagree that Eragon, Flicker, and WhyMafia float to the top as possible scum?

FF has been super engaged and consistent.
Trinity has been floating around but, in the mix with everyone else.
Oka has been crazy invovled even if I have a feeling he's scum.
Nancy.... I mean do we need more?
Quick.... well I don't like him for town. I think he's scum but, he's engaged a lot.


So does it seem odd that if I had to award participation awards I wouldn't give them to Eragon, Flicker, and WhyMafia?

They appear long enough to give reads and then gone.


Maybe, I'm nuts.

VOTE: Eragon

and why is having a long day bad?

The long day isn't so bad but, we're on page 63 with (what I feel is) very little actual information. Maybe, I'm just a bit frustrated but, I'll get over it.

Here are my horriable reads at the moment.

Oka - Town. Blew my mind too but yea. I'm feeling oka as town right now. I don't know why but, the post about Eragon just made sense to me and things like that tend to make me think town.
Eragon - Scum. It's pretty scummy IMO to not vote until everyone else does. Get in there and get messy. Stop sitting on the sidelines. Scum sits on sidelines.
FF - Scum. I always get suspicious of people defending me. Sorry, I tried not to feel scummy about it but now I do. Plus while I get what you're saying about your play from previous games you have to understand that it's all I have to go on.
Nancy - Scum. Leading town around even subconsciously is pretty scummy. I will say this. Anyone who uses my entire spiel about the IC being suspicious had better drop it. I don't care what read I have on Nancy. If scum takes me to LyLo I'm going to be sheeping her 100%. No questions. Whatever she votes I vote. So don't you dare take me to LyLo.
WhyMafia - Town. This one is harder to explain. Call it gut. I hate calling it gut though cause as a townie I should be able to logically explain where I'm at. I can't though.....
Quick - Town. I want to say scum but I can't. I think Quick's approach is so different from my own that I want to call him scum for it but he's been 100% consistent with it and I have to sit back and say that there isn't actually anything scummy there.

VOTE: eragon

I have three possible scums at the moment. Eragon, FF, Nancy. I don't think Quick is Scum and I'm not really sure where my head is at with Nancy and FF. I feel fairly comfortable with a vote on Eragon.

Ice, do you think scum-nancy would bus scum-eragon rather than go for a quick lynch (pardon the pun) in this game state?

(that's not a leading question, I'm genuinely curious and want to see your thought process)

I'm not really sure how to answer that to be honest. I struggle sometimes with understanding how those types of reads are made. The only thing that I could even attempt to do is tell what I would do.

The answer is no. If I was Nancy and Eragon was my scum buddy I wouldn't at this point bus him. By bus I mean go through with a lynch and get everyone else on board. I also wouldn't' push Quick. It's too obvious. Let town simmer and stew of awhile. If they land on Eragon then I'm already on Eragon and it wouldn't be an obvious bus but I would get towncred for it. If the wagon stays on Quick for a while maybe I could jump on it but, it would be really difficult because I (Nancy) have been steady town reading him through out the game. So I would have to come up with a good reason for it. Also, worth noting is that most everyone has a scum read on Eragon right now. So it makes sense for her vote to be there in case town get's tired of playing with other and decides to finish a lynch on Eragon.

I think the better lynch (if I was Nancy and scum and Eragon was my partner) would be FF.

Does that make sense?

TLDR: If Nancy and Eragon are scum then it makes sense for her vote to be on him right now instead of one of the other wagons. I don't see her ever lynching Quick. The only real option would be FF. I don't see her letting Eragon get lynched just yet either unless town really picked up steam on scum reading him and getting on it.

These are he only posts other than a few read lists in the beginning

I go from lean town BoD1, null EoD1, to top scum SoD2 and these are the only posts ever mentioning me
Look for yoursef if you really want to, or just read these and see the non-progression

[Eragon]

And of those posts only 1 actually mentions me and my content, which was D2 in his read list/explanation

[Eragon]

I can only think of a few things that are possible

1) he pre-determined to SR me and just never really looked at any of my posts because he is scum and thought I would be an easy mis-lynch
2) he has strong TR’s on everyone else and I’m just PoE, but that’s not the case because
2a) he said he loses confidence in TR’s D2
2b) he only had 3 TR’s and 3 SR’s, so I’m the scummiest of the 3
3) he keeps all his progression to himself and didn’t post about it, which is probably what he is going to say but I still think hats scummy, because it shows no progression and doesn’t allow discussion, which is what he advocates for.
3)

[Eragon]

<ignore the last 3)>

[Eragon]

Ye and it’s grown progressively weaker.

I’m planning on looking over FF an re-evaluating quick

[Eragon]

I forgot to comment on Eragon. Was gonna wait and make it a big proper post. He may have spewed Iceman town by saying Iceman was in his PoE then calling him newbtown then saying he was scumreading him. They probably maybe aren't together. All of his posts that I read so far seem really agenda-y and his NKA feels like he has an informed PoV. Would be flabbergasted if he ever flipped town atm, and I only bust that word out for really special occasions.

this was what Nancy put out.

as well as the D1 vote stuff

[Eragon]

I guess to expand on it more. I have given reasons. Mostly around the way D1 voting went down. But Poe is also part of it.

I can only think of a few things that are possible

1) he pre-determined to SR me and just never really looked at any of my posts because he is scum and thought I would be an easy mis-lynch
2) he has strong TR’s on everyone else and I’m just PoE, but that’s not the case because
2a) he said he loses confidence in TR’s D2
2b) he only had 3 TR’s and 3 SR’s, so I’m the scummiest of the 3
3) he keeps all his progression to himself and didn’t post about it, which is probably what he is going to say but I still think hats scummy, because it shows no progression and doesn’t allow discussion, which is what he advocates for.
3)

Mostly two.

and as I've said

"you lose confidence in your TR's D2"
this came from your own words

meaning that you normally have to reconsider, and you aren't sure.
and if you aren't sure then you dont use PoE.

also, you have 3 town reads and 3 SR's
meaning your "PoE" has 3 scum in it...
which is too much for the game

[Eragon]

I guess to expand on it more. I have given reasons. Mostly around the way D1 voting went down. But Poe is also part of it.

Yes, you really do.

your reasons are only D1 voting, which ive already explained is the way I play.
PoE isnt really a reason, its more a process

[Eragon]

so im guessing FF isn't a possibility today?

possibility yes.

For me, probability, No.

it all depends when I reach my Nirvana state and can fully read through

[Eragon]

what do you mean?

[Eragon]

yes, I am planning on re-delving everyone except you, Nancy, and Ice. because I have already done those.

my quick read was strong when it started, then is starting to decay, and my vote is still on him because
1) I still think he is scum
2) It clears up FF IMO

And FF right now I probably won't vote, but I need to read his ISO

[Eragon]

two days is enough time

[Eragon]

I guess to expand on it more. I have given reasons. Mostly around the way D1 voting went down. But Poe is also part of it.

Yes, you really do.

your reasons are only D1 voting, which ive already explained is the way I play.
PoE isnt really a reason, its more a process

The way you play pings me as scummy. Sorry?

uhm...

ive already explained me not dropping votes every 5 posts is just my play-style, and I have proof of it as town as ive already proven before when both Nancy and WhyMafia pushed me about the voting. and I showed that me not voting is not a scum-tell

[Eragon]

b/c they have foster kittens that keep them awake.

Sky be good guy

[Eragon]

uhhh I will look later when I go deep-sea diving

[Eragon]

oh.

well I will still answer later.

[Eragon]

Eragon, where are you getting this "I proved my town meta" stuff? I read the game you linked and immediately pointed out that you made a serious vote early in the game in like your 5th post.

Oka, I'm probably going to put FF to L-1 if he doesn't talk about his reads and such in the way that he said he would. You can't just soft PR and expect people to leave you alone because of it.

im not sure if you realized it but the person in question was at L-2 within 5 pages and 4 hours of day start...

5/7 votes were on him in that time

meaning 5 people voted him

meaning something was pretty obvious

[Eragon]

I guess to expand on it more. I have given reasons. Mostly around the way D1 voting went down. But Poe is also part of it.

Yes, you really do.

your reasons are only D1 voting, which ive already explained is the way I play.
PoE isnt really a reason, its more a process

The way you play pings me as scummy. Sorry?

uhm...

ive already explained me not dropping votes every 5 posts is just my play-style, and I have proof of it as town as ive already proven before when both Nancy and WhyMafia pushed me about the voting. and I showed that me not voting is not a scum-tell

Yea, I totally have this scummy thing that I do but, I can explain it because it's my town play so you should ignore it because it's how play town.... no, no, I understand you think it's scummy but, I've explained it that it's not so you should stop thinking that it is.


- Eragon

I know that Nancy and Quick have both told me that there is no such thing as a "scummy" behavior and that you have to read everything individually. I'm glad that works for them but, it doesn't work for me. In society there are rules that people follow and if they are not followed then people label them as bad people. The same thing applies to the game off mafia. Sure, those rules change from site to site much like cultural norms change from locale to locale. My interpretation of someone holding back their vote is that they are a scum planning their move and unwilling to get their hands dirty and show any conviction. Just like my interpretation of not talking would be to label someone scum or not participating in town, or not helping town. It just how things work. If you play outside of the rules you'll end up looking scummy to some.

1. I disagree that me not voting everything I see is scummy.
2. play style /=/ scum
3. Its my town play too, so it shouldn't be considered that scummy

I'm not trying to be mean.

I know

[Eragon]

I liked the beginning part of FF’s ISO, it felt natural and towny.
83 I liked quite a lot
164 also gave me a balanced, towny PoV
194 kinda gave me weird vibes
Basically saying that if good town doesn’t die early they must be scum, or at least deserve another look. This seems like a good way to get a mis-lynch in LyLo by not killing Nancy at night and then throwing sus on her for being alive.
208 and a few posts around here. I don’t really like how he is trying to prove Iceman’s reasoning for Iceman.
224 I dont like him saying that he wants a wandering Oka that stumbles into scum day ⅔. Being agressive is normally good, because it helps put pressure and flush out scum.
225 is bad because its never to early to start making reads, and thats how the game starts, by people making reads. And calling Oka for looking for a case scum and needs to die is wolf IMO.
228 votes Oka for being aggressive, I don’t like it
257 also gives me bad vibes and trying to start a wagon
279 is bad IMO because he is agreeing with Iceman saying a fast game is bad for town, which is wrong because slow games mean less info for town which means less to go off of SR’s, which means greater likelihood of mislynching
363 this is where it all starts…. The quick vs FF rage which I’m not going to get
into, but is TvS for an almost certainty.
374 I’m not sure what this is supposed to be, but it seems like unnessecary shade to me
428Ceejay is not the same person and quick, and the scenario is different. You said he acted like he was caught up then said he wasnt. Quick never acted like they were caught up. So this is heavy reaching here.
522what?
523 this shade is unnessecary and is basically construing quick as lying and ye its a bad post
531 was just bad overall
554 doesnt want to interact after saying earlier that he thinks interacting is the way to Townhunt
709very annoyed sounding and sounds pissed off
741you call quick out for that but I saw you doing the same exact stuff mate…
744shade
867 why do you want meta to read, read off this game damnit
1070more shade
mis-repping Oka. He is doing what he accused Oka of doing
[post]1199 I dont like this WK/Chainsaw of iceman
1230 what?
1319but if your more confident in someone else stick to them. Don’t compromise, go for your strongest SR
1393and he accuses Oka of shading Nancy’s alignment….
1567there were reasons for my D1 inactivity and I explained it all… theres nothing I can do about life, and as I said I am working on activity this day.
1639 dont like that he says we should’ve lynched Oka because he claimed VT…
1745 shade
1753telling Oka to “STFU” which is bad, because content Is good for town
1764seems like a scummy PR soft saying “Leave me alone but don’t make me claim my real role yet”

Conclusion: Scum

whats current VC?

[Eragon]

more specifically, where is FF on votes?

Intent to vote FF

[Eragon]

ok at the last votecount, FF had 2 votes

VOTE: Formerfish

THIS IS L-1 NO VOTEY

[Eragon]

I am not caught up since my last post in any way, but I am VT

[Eragon]

also saw FF's doc claim, and no CC's after a while, so im calling him Mech. lock town


UNVOTE: Formerfish

[Eragon]

let me read for a bit, but I have no objections, because im 99% sure they flip scum b/c TvS FF/Quick

[Eragon]

Oka do you mind giving me 10-15 minutes to skim Quick's ISO again?

[Eragon]

fucking hell

[Eragon]

that was hammer right?

[Eragon]

OH LOL

[Eragon]

FF was already on the wagon

[Eragon]

continuing my ISO

[Eragon]

The atE about feeling “blackmailed” seems like its pretty much forced and is trying to Towncred grab for quick.

I also really didnt like his almost instant 180 of iceman, from scum, to town. I can definately see them being buddies. That whole interaction about “horrible reasons” “Quick is scum because no catc-up” is pretty strong distancing, because it is a terrible reason to Lynch someone over, and its a good way to keep them apart.

The FF stuff was almost completely tvS for me, so seeing that FF is p.much town, makes me confident in Scum!quick

442 is more distancing
483 distancing OMGUS by saying his case is “stupid” and is terrible.
517 is what I mean by AtE
540 and around that are what makes it TvS and why I don’t like quick rn
626wish washy and it seems like they are trying to say “I have a town lean on Oka but want to be open for lynching him”
627already explained this one
655 this could be W/W interactions…
737 this is TvS too
740 Iceman/Quick scumteam intensifies…a tentative town lean, and all the switchingg… from scum to town to tentative
745 TvS and FF is town



This is where im at rn, just putting thoughts out there for now.

continuing the ISO

[Eragon]

Intent to hammer?

I gtg in 5 minutes for tutoring and dont have time for about 2-3 hours

[Eragon]

I also have intent.

just waiting for the agreeable

[Eragon]

im very confident in this scum flip

[Eragon]

Oka vs Me.

Who will the one?

The chosen prophecsuediac.

The one who will hammer...

WHO SHALL IT BE

[Eragon]

uhh im kinda leaving in 2 minutes...

so it either wait or do it now

[Eragon]

ok ill wait.

I still have intent then,.

good-bye

[Eragon]

I will take a look at the Skygazer slot today, but I am nearly 100% confident in an iceman Scumflip

VOTE: Iceman

[Eragon]

oh ok Skygazer is conf. LOL

[Eragon]

in Donner party our gunsmith had scum chosen at first both times, then switched and checked VT both times.

it has happened again

[Eragon]

GG.

I hate quick hammers lol.

damnit oka ;_;

I had a plan.

also iceman, you were right, but for all the wrong reasons.
I didnt vote not because I was scum, but because thats how I play
quick didnt catch up not because he was scum, but because he didnt feel like it/want to

[Eragon]

lol sorry about this game i suck lmaoooo

well you might just be the reason town won

[Eragon]

I was setting up the perfect plan when iceman Hammered LOL

Im wasn't gonna kill Nancy because thats basically forfeiting.

Im was gonna kill oka probably because they're more active, and then im gonna shade Nancy to high heaven by saying they faked Neapolitan to win in LyLo and that we are actually in column C

hopefully win in LyLo

[Eragon]

um...

RIP...

I thought it was tracker/ VT LOL

[Eragon]

GG.

I hate quick hammers lol.

damnit oka ;_;

I had a plan.

also iceman, you were right, but for all the wrong reasons.
I didnt vote not because I was scum, but because thats how I play
quick didnt catch up not because he was scum, but because he didnt feel like it/want to

But as town he wouldn't have had the option to not read up because he would have to scum hunt.


You can say its how you play all you want. It's one of the things that got you labeled a scum

you dont need to always catchup, it helps, but if you just dont feel up for it, its not 100% mandatory and is not a scumtell

and like I said, you were right but for the wrong reasons

[Eragon]

yours is different, because it was obvious TvS, and if you are town, then he must've been scum.

and you also had more reasons than "oh, he never caught up, he must be scum because town always has to catchup"

[Eragon]

I wonder if the game woulda been different if one of us claimed doc... lol

[Eragon]

ahh i suck at typing and things

yo why the nk on flicker

we Were actually gonna NK FF, but then we realized that would incriminate Quick(not that it needed up mattering) but

"Reason being is that this will throw a lot of WIFOM into the game if people are trying to figure out why Flicker was killed."

[Eragon]

that happened in 1879 too.

the newbie slots always replace out as scum

[Eragon]

less stressful?

seriously.

I love playing town, because thing is, I just can't not SR someone that is scummy, and if one of those people is my partner I might end up getting them lynched LOL.

I find scum very stressful

[Eragon]

then dont be wrong

[Eragon]

Nancy would've been the worst move, and you would've been a bad move

[Eragon]

q_q

;-;



D:

Q_Q

o.0

[Eragon]

Umm... there was a doctor...

[Eragon]

uwu siht si tahw

[Eragon]

do we get a mod rant :3