Forgotten Hourglass [Game Over]
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why did this post make you vote them? i feel like scum usuallyIn post 57, Ankamius wrote:
VOTE: zmuffinmanIn post 52, zMuffinMan wrote:btw i actually do think ankamius has been far too jumpy early on
dunno. i just believe youIn post 40, Spiffeh wrote:Why do you believe that I am town already?tryto have a reason beyond "idk i just do".
here's the actual mafia, though
unvote
vote: brian skies- projectmatt
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why does purr seem town?In post 71, zMuffinMan wrote:kokichi probably town
purr seems town
sakura seems kinda town
unsure if im hydrad with scum but gonna say no for now- projectmatt
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you didn't answer my question earlier. what made you vote muffin in the first place? is it just the fact that he scumread you?In post 168, Ankamius wrote:He ought to be town reading me because I'm town- projectmatt
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that's partially my concern. i don't expect intensive analysis from ank this early in the game, but the logic/reasoning she's presented has felt shoddy and weird.In post 174, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
When is town!Ank ever this unsolvey? Even when she’s dead wrong about something, she always has numerous deep nuanced reads and opinions about the gamestate. I would argue that she still thinks we’re in rvs but her posts don’t read like that.In post 173, projectmatt wrote:
you didn't answer my question earlier. what made you vote muffin in the first place? is it just the fact that he scumread you?In post 168, Ankamius wrote:He ought to be town reading me because I'm town
I know Ank likes to be viewed as a town leader and is the first one to try to solve the game but the only opinion she’s given so far is that Muffin’s town for backing off of her? I don’t know what to make of it because I also don’t think she’d be this bad as scum either.
But OTOH, that could also be a clever gambit on her part. I know I’m not crazy about the answers she’s given to my questions.- projectmatt
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In post 272, Sakura Hana wrote:VOTE: Nancy
Can we vote now? Might as well put my vote back where it wasvote: sakura- projectmatt
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im taking this to mean "i don't want to explain my reads or my thought process for a -secret- reason"In post 321, Ankamius wrote:madness is rarely sensical
but madness is the only sanity
strange, but alright- projectmatt
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i don't like this post. i'm not sure how to articulate why but the tone of it feels super forced.In post 404, Moment wrote:It's possible that we're simply on track in terms of scumreads and so that's what could be leading to the lull in content. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible. Alternatively, we're totally off and so scum don't care to do anything.
If people seem to agree on scumreads, then what about townreads?
why are you iffy on muffin? has that read changed at all since you made that post?In post 406, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
TBG, Matt, Wisdom are likely town.In post 404, Moment wrote:It's possible that we're simply on track in terms of scumreads and so that's what could be leading to the lull in content. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible. Alternatively, we're totally off and so scum don't care to do anything.
If people seem to agree on scumreads, then what about townreads?
I’m the most suspicious on Katsuki, Nos.
Iffy on Spiffeh, Muffin, Ank
Feeling okay about everyone else so far.
alternately, why do you townread me? i've been a non-factor in this game so far.
purrcocet is probably town.In post 419, Purrcocet wrote:
hes been all like hey lets do thingsIn post 417, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Why, because he delayed the voting?In post 415, Purrcocet wrote:also consider the possibility of dunnstral scum
and then u realize hes done the same amount of nothing as the rest of us
this game is weird i know im weird but idk if that is an excuse like i can just go hide in a corner while everyone lynches spiffeh within 30 minutes if that is what we all need to move forward.
this post is basically a statement of neutrality with the bonus of setting up to vote nosferatu later in the game. sakura could very well be scum here.In post 424, Sakura Hana wrote:I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game.
this vote basically came out of nowhere, and you switched it before spiffeh reacted. what was the purpose of that vote? do you think spiffeh is mafia?
iIn post 469, Sakura Hana wrote:VOTE: Mylo
Here Brian i shall join you in your effort to pressure this slot.definitelydon't like this post. performative towntelling.
i agree. ank leans town.In post 475, Spiffeh wrote:idk what Ank is trying to pull with her whole "it's cool to not care" schtick, but I don't think she would be this unresponsive as scum.
I've played with and correctly identified scum!Ankamius several times (admittedly years ago) and as scum she tries to sound important/helpful which is completely absent here.
She could be playing like this deliberately to counteract my ability to read her but for now it's not worth exploring that
good post. spiffeh can be town for now.In post 501, Spiffeh wrote:
I'm a little surprised you let me off the hook this easily?In post 467, Sakura Hana wrote:Ok I believe you because I doubt you'd lie about something you're literally asking me to find.
I thought it made sense that you would be hard on me based on your experience with town!me, but immediately letting it go doesn't really jive with how you were pressuring me before. Can you explain why you moved on so quickly?
this feels slimey. do people think moment is town?In post 618, Moment wrote:
It's not so muchIn post 615, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Well Purr directly asked this question to Maria.justthe answering of the question that I'm trying to highlight; it's the fact that, 100+ posts (as far as I remember) after her last post in the thread,thatwas what Maria responded to before disappearing again. Not only is it suspicious in itself with regards to pocketing, but it's entirey inconsistent with a supposed desire to "bounce ideas off of" you; after all, Maria skipped plenty of posts you made she could've responded to in order to respond to a postaboutyou.
And, all that being said, I think this is where I'll leave my vote for now, while still keeping an eye on Nosferatu.
VOTE: MariaR
oof, brian might be scum.In post 636, Brian Skies wrote:
Isn't this a scumtell for you?In post 566, MariaR wrote:This posting style is exhausting. Purr I really don't get why you're scumreading me of all people I feel I've been pretty transparently town.
sakura is my top scumread because of stuff like this. it's so lazy to silently vote a slot that you haven't mentioned as a scumread (save for the very start of the game) when that slot conveniently starts being scumread by a bunch of other people in the game.In post 677, Sakura Hana wrote:
VOTE: SpiffehIn post 673, Spiffeh wrote:ok I'm going back to doing nothing
this is just useless semantics, unless this is a jokeIn post 716, zMuffinMan wrote:707 is patently untrue unless this were a 1-scum game
please don't make me invoke LAL spiffeh
ive barely read this slot but this post is transparently badIn post 732, Katsuki wrote:I'd vote you for the fact that you threw a scumread at my direction.
this is bad too, but it might be town. damn.In post 791, Katsuki wrote:
Because I think you're more than just an asshole.In post 787, Dunnstral wrote:
Can you explain why you're using me as an excuse not to vote?In post 773, Katsuki wrote:Oh man
I'm so tempted to vote spiffeh in spite of a game from a few years back where he mislynched me but that would mean voting with wisdom and dunnstral
what an existential crisis
this reads like the exact same sardonic tone that i have when im scum.In post 828, Moment wrote:
Well, I'm always up for being randomly lynched Day 1 for no discernible reason just like in Minuet's Trio, so if you want to get that going again then just let me know.In post 827, Spiffeh wrote:Moment not really
It's been a fleeting thought of mine a few times throughout the game when reading your posts
And I don't have a specific reason for it
brian's posting has improved slightly in the past two pages, but i still dont townread him.- projectmatt
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why do you think sakura is town in particular? almost all of their posts ping me as being really performative without actually trying to game-solve or find mafia.In post 893, Dunnstral wrote:
Err I've got Sakura and moment as towny and muffin as neutralIn post 890, projectmatt wrote:anyway i want to lynch sakura, moment, and maybe muffin.
nancy, ank, spiffeh, and purr all lean town.
do you townread spiffeh now?In post 895, Brian Skies wrote: What about this do you have an issue with?
also, my issue with #636 is that it looked like a cheap way to discredit maria and add to the general suspicion of her without actually being substantive or trying to engage with her. it felt like a drive-by discredit.
@Nancy, I've never played with Moment before. Did he post similarly in Minuet to how he's posting here? I get the impression from Moment's posts that he's trying really hard to be seen as town, but it comes across as being artificial.
why?In post 899, Purrcocet wrote:eeee matt a lil scummy- projectmatt
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you don't see the problem with that?In post 902, Brian Skies wrote:
Yeah. And?In post 901, projectmatt wrote:also, my issue with #636 is that it looked like a cheap way to discredit maria and add to the general suspicion of her without actually being substantive or trying to engage with her. it felt like a drive-by discredit.- projectmatt
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i don't see how that would make you unable to directly state your issue with someone instead of vaguely discrediting them.In post 907, Brian Skies wrote:I was waiting for certain things to happen so I can analyse it all later, one of them (and the main one) being Mylo actually posting something I could consider content.
Also, seeing how people react to what I'm doing is also a thing I'm generally interested in.
i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since youmightbe town.- projectmatt
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that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.In post 1324, Brian Skies wrote:It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.
i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.- projectmatt
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i thought mylo was possibly scum because his catch-up post was weak. i said it here:In post 1597, Moment wrote:
Matt, would you mind elaborating on why you weren't opposed to the Mylo wagon?In post 1332, projectmatt wrote:
that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.In post 1324, Brian Skies wrote:It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.
i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.
that said, he was nowhere near my top scum-read and he seemed like the definition of an easy lynch, which is why i assumed his lynch wouldn't give us much information or interactions to read off of.In post 912, projectmatt wrote:did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.- projectmatt
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my stronger scumreads at the time were sakura/moment/muffin, which were generally disagreed with except for muffin.
the reason i didnt push super hard for a counter-wagon is that i thought mylo could easily be mafia, and i wasn't confident in my own reads, as i explained here:
anyway, i've been trying to reassess my approach to this game. i'll have good reads at some point.In post 1332, projectmatt wrote:
that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.In post 1324, Brian Skies wrote:It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.- projectmatt
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i think i get mislynched in games a lot because i primarily olay mafia on a different website. my playstyle and my method of getting reads pings people as scummy because it goes against mafiascum site meta.In post 1899, Ankamius wrote:matt feels like that player that shouldn't be lynchbait but for whatever reason just gets lynched a lot anyways
it's almost creepy
if it isn't obvious, i tend to read largely off of tone, and i slowly develop consistent reads throughout a game by questioning people about what they think and checking their responses for logical consistency, scum-motivation, etc.
being straight up, this type of situation tends to give me whiplash because i get legitimately kind of pissed off when people vote me as town. it seems so obvious from my perspective that im not scum and that this is a lazy wagon, but it means that i need to fight the misled town into not voting me, which makes me feel like i can't lay back and just develop my own reads, which is essential for my play.
im trying to do a catch-up post with reads and thoughts but every time i do i end up getting overwhelmed by the amount of effort required and say "fuck it, ill do it tomorrow."
so, that's where im at. i will try to get reads within the next day or so.- projectmatt
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like, purr just posted a case on me that i truthfully think is absolute garbage. it doesn't make sense. it's full of false assumptions. I could use my energy to analyze it line by line and counter every point, but what does that accomplish? nobody's really going to read it in-depth and I feel like I'm just wasting time until I inevitably get voted.
It's legitimately frustrating.- projectmatt
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i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:it seems like you just try to "feel" your way into all of your scumreads
you don't articulate any of the points you make that you have conviction on. all of them are very vague and you make everything seem like it's something but you never explain what that something is ever
this is a super generous interpretation of what sakura said.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:no......no it's not.
this is what i meant by posturing
it reads "nos lurking would be scummy if the entire playerlist wasn't also lurking" if you don't twist it
for clarity, the wording of the post was:
"I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game."
how is that not a statement of neutrality? at best, it's filler post with no actual reads or attempts to game-solve. at worst, it's a filler post that sakura could use to justify voting nos in the future.
performative towntelling is pretty descriptive, no? it looked like an unnecessary way to highlight the fact that she was adding pressure to the wagon because she was insecure about voting it without saying anything. she's pointing out that she's doing a town thing, and that's why it looks forced and performative.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:""performative towntelling"? if you definitely didn't like it you could have told us exactly what you meant but i think you were aware this was just a generic wagon join
i mentioned in the post you quoted that i scumread sakura for "In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:so from this and the rest of your iso
sakura is scum for naked votes and "lazy" play is the foundation of your scumread
she's your top scumread but muffin who has posted nothing (of real content) at this point and voteparked in rvs is somehow lower. i will pretend that makes sense.
and you barely address muffin besides mentioning him
the muffin sr is never really pushed it's just kind of brushed on a little seemingly just for the sake of itstuff like this", implying her entire iso has been filled with underdeveloped reads, unnatural wagon jumps, and scum-motivated posts (like the statement of neutrality one.) so, it's a pretty big misrep to say that my scumread on sakura is based on "naked votes and 'lazy' play". you could make any scumread sound uninformed or poorly put together if you break it down into a few buzzwords.
in my post, i said that i maybe wanted to lynch muffin because his posts didn't ping me nearly as badly as sakura or moment. i don't see why someone not outing much content or parking their vote is scummier than the stuff i pointed out about sakura/moment, or why it somehow makes me scummy for not pushing on him more.
also, this was about 4 days before the deadline. do you want me to have substantive interaction with every player in the game? that's ridiculous. especially since i said shortly before the deadline that i was second-guessing my reads and wanted to re-evaluate them.
this isn't even a point against me. you're assuming that i picked a post at random because you already think im mafia. i didn't. i thought it was a bad post that gave the impression of contributing content while it was actually just arguing semantics that didn't matter.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:did you pick this post at random
you could have picked a few more to make it look better
see my first response about reading people based on tone.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:again. this is what i mean. what DO you mean? or are we just supposed to get the impression that you mean something
when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?
it's really not that general at all. i wouldn't use the reasoning that i used to scumread moment for any other player in this table, because it doesn't apply to any other player in this table. there's a very specific kind of scum-player that tries overwhelmingly hard to get people to townread them, and it can end up blowing up in their faces because something about their tone isn't right. i was assuming this is what was happening with moment.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:so this is what you mean, but it's still somehow one of the most general statements ever
this is fair. i'm still confused about my reads, but i'm trying.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:[insert progression here]- projectmatt
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did you read my last 3+ postsIn post 2038, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
If TBG flips green, we powerlynch Muffin tomorrow.In post 2031, Purrcocet wrote:zMuffinMan wrote:
stop spreading liesIn post 2025, Purrcocet wrote:he is being sarcastic nancy
i was being genuine as can be
it is absolutely amazing that we probably couldn't get 8 votes on you today
Actually, also works if Matt flips red. Heh.- projectmatt
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why are you letting muffin dictate your vote instead of reading me individually? that seems lazy. (i still think youre town, granted.)In post 2051, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
All I know is Muffin is working overtime to get votes off of you, so my point being, either flip implicates or clears Muffin. Who do you think ought to be lynched?In post 2045, projectmatt wrote:
did you read my last 3+ postsIn post 2038, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
If TBG flips green, we powerlynch Muffin tomorrow.In post 2031, Purrcocet wrote:zMuffinMan wrote:
stop spreading liesIn post 2025, Purrcocet wrote:he is being sarcastic nancy
i was being genuine as can be
it is absolutely amazing that we probably couldn't get 8 votes on you today
Actually, also works if Matt flips red. Heh.
also, im reading through people iso's right now so ill answer that soon. i actually think kokichi could be scum here on second glance.
im not voting TBG yet because i think they're basically unreadable. right now i think i want to lynchexplain why im mafia or why im a good wagon. im listening.
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i wish i could show you how hard i rolled my eyes at this postIn post 2083, Wisdom wrote:i dont explain to scum why theyre scum
like this is the laziest shit- projectmatt
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@nancy
In post 2080, projectmatt wrote: why are you letting muffin dictate your vote instead of reading me individually?- projectmatt
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i mean no, you didn't. you explained your rationale for voting me here:In post 2126, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
I told you why. ISO me, if you doubt this. You are also not suggesting alternatives, which would help.In post 2120, projectmatt wrote:it would be great if nancy could stop ignoring my question to her and not coast lazily on a read that doesn't make sense, but i guess we can't all get what we want
and you didn't answer this post:In post 2051, Nancy Drew 39 wrote: All I know is Muffin is working overtime to get votes off of you, so my point being, either flip implicates or clears Muffin. Who do you think ought to be lynched?
In post 2080, projectmatt wrote: why are you letting muffin dictate your vote instead of reading me individually? that seems lazy. (i still think youre town, granted.)
also, im reading through people iso's right now so ill answer that soon. i actually think kokichi could be scum here on second glance.- projectmatt
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i guess i understand where you're coming from, my gripe is that it seems sort of lazy to base your vote off of associative tells on one of your unflipped scumreads as opposed to just trying to read me and see if im town.
part of the reason i think kokichi might be scum is because of his indignation at me being lynched. the confidence in which he knows im going to flip town seems unrealistic, and it looks like he's trying to get towncred/using my townflip to justify his tunnel on wisdom. i also feel like his iso doesn't have much substance to it. i like most of his reads, but it feels like he gets them without trying to scumhunt/dialogue with people, and it makes me think the reads might be fake.
that said, i can still be convinced kokichi is town. he's not my top choice right now.
as for my actual top choice, i'd probably want to vote muffin or moment. i'll elaborate on those when it's not 4 am.
im not opposed to tehbrawlguy wagon solely because his gimmick is unreadable.
also, im asking everyone who's voting me without commenting about it why they're voting me. that's why i asked wisdom too.- projectmatt
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i elaborated on what makes me scumread moment in my response to purr. let me quote it for you. (also i feel like this post got missed and i want to quote it again.)In post 2268, Brian Skies wrote: This in particular doesn't seem that great since he's hedging and doing the same thing we slammed Mylo for. I'm also curious about his Muffin and Moment scumreads,
particularly because I think Moment is really town this game.
In post 2000, projectmatt wrote:
i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:it seems like you just try to "feel" your way into all of your scumreads
you don't articulate any of the points you make that you have conviction on. all of them are very vague and you make everything seem like it's something but you never explain what that something is ever
this is a super generous interpretation of what sakura said.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:no......no it's not.
this is what i meant by posturing
it reads "nos lurking would be scummy if the entire playerlist wasn't also lurking" if you don't twist it
for clarity, the wording of the post was:
"I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game."
how is that not a statement of neutrality? at best, it's filler post with no actual reads or attempts to game-solve. at worst, it's a filler post that sakura could use to justify voting nos in the future.
performative towntelling is pretty descriptive, no? it looked like an unnecessary way to highlight the fact that she was adding pressure to the wagon because she was insecure about voting it without saying anything. she's pointing out that she's doing a town thing, and that's why it looks forced and performative.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:""performative towntelling"? if you definitely didn't like it you could have told us exactly what you meant but i think you were aware this was just a generic wagon join
i mentioned in the post you quoted that i scumread sakura for "In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:so from this and the rest of your iso
sakura is scum for naked votes and "lazy" play is the foundation of your scumread
she's your top scumread but muffin who has posted nothing (of real content) at this point and voteparked in rvs is somehow lower. i will pretend that makes sense.
and you barely address muffin besides mentioning him
the muffin sr is never really pushed it's just kind of brushed on a little seemingly just for the sake of itstuff like this", implying her entire iso has been filled with underdeveloped reads, unnatural wagon jumps, and scum-motivated posts (like the statement of neutrality one.) so, it's a pretty big misrep to say that my scumread on sakura is based on "naked votes and 'lazy' play". you could make any scumread sound uninformed or poorly put together if you break it down into a few buzzwords.
in my post, i said that i maybe wanted to lynch muffin because his posts didn't ping me nearly as badly as sakura or moment. i don't see why someone not outing much content or parking their vote is scummier than the stuff i pointed out about sakura/moment, or why it somehow makes me scummy for not pushing on him more.
also, this was about 4 days before the deadline. do you want me to have substantive interaction with every player in the game? that's ridiculous. especially since i said shortly before the deadline that i was second-guessing my reads and wanted to re-evaluate them.
this isn't even a point against me. you're assuming that i picked a post at random because you already think im mafia. i didn't. i thought it was a bad post that gave the impression of contributing content while it was actually just arguing semantics that didn't matter.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:did you pick this post at random
you could have picked a few more to make it look better
see my first response about reading people based on tone.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:again. this is what i mean. what DO you mean? or are we just supposed to get the impression that you mean something
when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?
it's really not that general at all. i wouldn't use the reasoning that i used to scumread moment for any other player in this table, because it doesn't apply to any other player in this table. there's a very specific kind of scum-player that tries overwhelmingly hard to get people to townread them, and it can end up blowing up in their faces because something about their tone isn't right. i was assuming this is what was happening with moment.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:so this is what you mean, but it's still somehow one of the most general statements ever
this is fair. i'm still confused about my reads, but i'm trying.In post 1927, Purrcocet wrote:[insert progression here]
this isn't something i can really refute because it's just speculation. that said, i think it's pretty valid to think that the mylo lynch was kind of a lazy wagon, and at the time it didn't seem like a move that would help progress the game at all. also, if i was trying to remove the energy from the mylo wagon, i would have been trying a lot harder to wagon on someone else. instead, i sat in a confused state while trying to figure out my own reads.In post 2268, Brian Skies wrote:This is didn't really like since I feel like he could've figured that out for himself if he just continued to read my posts, and this was a conclusion Moment and I had already come to (Moment was the one who actually pushed me to reevaluate my Mylo read, so I am giving him a decent amount of credit here). And Matt never did end up voting Mylo. While I can see town just being really unsure, it gives me the impression he could have been scum hoping for the Mylo wagon to stall out near day's end and people wagoning something else.
i'd be happy to walk you through my thought process on why i scumread you and then changed my mind, if that's something you want.In post 2268, Brian Skies wrote:Anyhow, the main pause I have is that most of his posting that I have an issue with comes in long catch-up style posting. But I still didn't really like this:In post 889, projectmatt wrote:oof, brian might be scum.In post 908, projectmatt wrote:i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since you might be town.
Which seems like he was trying to give off the impression of a generic read, and it didn't actually feel that way for me.In post 915, projectmatt wrote:i take it all back. brian's probably town.
it changed. i doubt sakura is scum anymore.In post 2207, Spiffeh wrote:hey projectmatt you mentioned scum reading Sakura early on and even today justified that read in defense of Purr's accusations, but I don't see her in your list of scum reads rn
What happened?- projectmatt
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anyway for clarity, i scumread moment largely for tone issues (i articulated it in the post above.)
i scumread muffin because his reads feel weirdly non-commital and stuff like this pings the hell out of me:
i dont get the impression from his posts that he's trying to gamesolve or sincerely find the mafia, but it does look to me like he's posturing between a bunch of different scumreads and relying on his erratic playstyle to justify not articulating himself.In post 2118, zMuffinMan wrote:my evil conscience is like "STOP OVERTHINKING SHIT, IT'S NANCY TBG" but my good conscience doesn't fully trust my evil conscience and is like "but nancy could just be bad. maybe maria tbg?" and both consciences are too busy doing other things to really give a shit about who's right tbh- projectmatt
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i came to the realization that a lot of the reasons i scumread sakura seem to boil down to playstyle/site meta that im not familiar with, as opposed to legitimate scumtells. her play improved considerably after my original catch-up post. their tone reads a lot more sincere and i think they're approaching the game in a way that scum almost definitely wouldn't. stuff like this:In post 2334, Spiffeh wrote:What changed your mind?
In post 2094, Sakura Hana wrote:Actually I have a gut feeling that purrcocet is scum, but i dont care enough right now.
or
doesn't look scum-motivated to me at all. it is fence-sitting like i pointed out previously, but the difference is that sakura is being brutally honest about their indifference/apathy toward getting their reads lynched, and that makes a lot more sense coming from a town perspective than a scum one.In post 1104, Sakura Hana wrote:Tbh, i do think muffin's scum, but i feel kinda nervous/anxious about lynching him coz i'd feel bad if he's actually town here and im wrong.- projectmatt
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i honestly can't tell if im just salty or if people just generally gravitate toward lynching easy targets that they don't have to think critically about or challenge because they're not in the social bubble of the gameIn post 2343, Ankamius wrote:I honestly don't even get the scumreads on matt- projectmatt
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a bunch of you guys are even forecasting that im about to flip town and you're still voting me or not even attempting to find a counter-wagon.
like, this is learned helplessness. you're coasting on it until the deadline comes. then you can say "haha oops i guess we gotta lynch matt now there's no time"
it's just annoying- projectmatt
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again, i'm not about to make up reasons and grasp at straws just so i can justify why moment is mafia. i think he feels off. i think his tone feels manipulative.In post 2000, projectmatt wrote:i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.- projectmatt
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i elaborated on muffin and i re-explained why i think moment is mafia based on his tone. i guess maybe saying "ill elaborate later" was misleading, but i stand by my read.In post 2355, Brian Skies wrote:
You would think that theIn post 2132, projectmatt wrote:as for my actual top choice, i'd probably want to vote muffin ormoment. i'll elaborate on those when it's not 4 am.elaborationwould be more than just 'tone.' But that's just me.- projectmatt
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i completely agree with this btwIn post 2359, Ankamius wrote:306 was a huge post of a bunch of soft stances and wording it in a way that is both incredibly useless and yet can be used as a way to ensure that taking certain hard stances later will feel more natural while also not feeling all that bad if you need to go the opposite way because of how weak the read is.
It's literally a read of 'looking busy and providing outs'- projectmatt
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i can immediately see a difference in moment's tone in that game vs this game.
his first content post was this:
it's speculative and insecure but it also outs definite reads and puts pressure on another player.In post 113, Moment wrote:Not all that much to do before we can vote. I've got light townreads for one (likely poor) reason or another on Kokichi, HS, hebichan and Dunnstral.
If I could vote, it'd likely be on Kaede for this post:
I have a hard time believing that anyone could actually have this sort of thought process and ask that question.In post 82, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
What makes you think it's a fake claim?In post 79, Dunnstral wrote:
Nice fakeclaimIn post 77, mastina wrote:BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not automatic; I have to manually trigger it.
Reveal
meanwhile, moment's first content post in this game:
it reads to me like moment is scared to commit to any reads or even to interrogate another player. it feels like his express purpose is keeping his options open while still setting up to vote people later in the game. this is different from his first post in minuet, in which he takes hard stances and asserts himself.In post 306, Moment wrote:
Oh, I guess I wasn't really clear in my wording; I didn't mean that I had past-tense "gotten" a chance to look through things, I meant that my chance started right then (and is now completed).In post 303, projectmatt wrote:do you have reads?
No strong reads as of yet, but I've got some leans going either way. Kokichi, you (matt), Dunnstral, Nancy andperhapsSakura (pending taking a look back at the last game for comparison on something) all seem town enough to me for now. I agree with others on Ankamius' posting just in general not being the best so far, but that's not really a strong scumread at all.
I haven't liked some of what Spiffeh has been saying; specifically, it was these two lines that really stuck out to me:In post 157, Spiffeh wrote:Nancy, you admit yourself that your early game is inconsistent but when you're wagoned you say that they shouldn't be scum reading you here because of how you acted in the beginning of Necromancer.
The first line from 157 is logically correct, but it's the kind of logically correct thing that someone could point out regardless of alignment, and I feel like a scum Spiffeh would be more apt to take that opportunity to point it out than a town Spiffeh. When it comes to Nancy Drew, that kind of logical inconsistency really doesn't seem particularly alignment relevant - at least, that's how it seems to me - and so pointing it out would be more of an attempt to look like you're doing something than actually doing something.In post 202, Spiffeh wrote:Some would argue that there won’t be any meaningful contribution before votes actually count.
The second quote really just stuck out to me for the wording. He wasn't making that argument, he was just saying that "some would argue" that. It's weasel wording which, in all honesty, is probably not scum indicative, especially for such a tangentially alignment-related issue as the starting of the day. Even still, it stuck out to me upon reading through and I felt it worth mentioning.- projectmatt
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we're clearly not reading his tone the same way at all. i don't think #307 was committal. it left open the possibility that he could switch to spiffeh/mylo/maria at any time. he's also not trying to directly engage nosferatu, moreso just saying "this was scummy and here's why". that contrasts his post in minuet, in which he directly called out kaede in a harsh way.- projectmatt
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the vast majority of my posts are articulating my thought process, my reads, or questioning other people in the game. ive rightfully pointed out a couple of times that people are voting me because they're lazy and it's the easiest move for them, and the best way you can think to summarize my play is that im whining?In post 2374, Brian Skies wrote: Really? Because his posts read as him whining that people are scumreading him. Not to mention he even at one point said he should be read as obvtown, and I don't think there's anything in his iso that should indicate this.
do better.- projectmatt
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it's a lazy discredit to call my posts whining. by framing my posts that way, you're making people more likely to disregard what im saying. you're also ignoring the valid points im making and disregarding them as "whining" so that you don't have to rub 2 brain cells together and critically think about them.- projectmatt
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