A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

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Hi Varsoon. I'm gonna sheep you.

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Anyone wanna help out with a tldr?

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Also, has anyone claimed a nonactive PR? Or vanilla?

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For clarification, not asking someone to claim that, just asking if anyone has.

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Also, has anyone claimed a nonactive PR? Or vanilla?

Roles like mastina's claim count btw. I just give a shit if you're gonna act at night and if I can have a list of people who claim to not act at night I can give gifts to those people.

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So presumably mastina, Nico, and the dead desperado can all receive my delicious gifts.

Also I just saw FB claim to have a gun invent, which being as it's FB posturing with GE is probably bullshit but should definitely be used to give guns to clears. Given mastina can 'clear' people... Win/Win?

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Who got chick's fruit?

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Anyways, if Mastina fails to duel scum here we should probably lynch her for the two townclears and the added certainty

Why?

Mastina has functionally claimed public cop. Whyfor to lynching the public cop when we are far from LYLO?

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That sounds like mastina, tbh. When meatworld calls, she's a nonentity.

But seriously, though, why settle for two conftowns? The presumption from his post is that he believes lynching her will conftown two players. We have 22 alive, so presumably 5 scum. If mastina is scum 1, there are four other scums to lynch. If mastina is town, is scum really going to let her live to conftown 5 separate players? So we give her until 5 clears, and then if scum have magically don't shoot her, we pull the trigger there then. If scum kill her clears, it gives us reason to expect her clears are worth killing. If scum don't kill her clears, then if she flips town we have a bunch of clears. And if scum shoot her, we didn't waste a lynch on her. If she's scum, there are still other scum to lynch first. If she's leashed, it's literally a win/win.

Plus, we can just ignore sorting her because as long as she uses her ability everyday she's largely irrelevant to the thread and has a huge target painted on her back.

Mastina, when you get to this post sometime next year or whenever you're caught up, just gladiate the largest wagon whenever 1/2 deadline hits.

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tl;dr: It seems like a weird amount of concern over a slot with an expiration date.

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Claimed public daycop, one use per day.

And people wanna lynch her to prove after two uses.

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People in this case being at least Vecna, possibly additional peeps, but the lack of "That's the most stupidest idea I've ever heard"s means at least something, I think.

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Loyal gladiator that we can choose to no lynch with.

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The function is a public day cop.

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?

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Okay, yeah, I went back and checked. Gladiate functionality is proven.

So lets look at the pros and cons of assuming mastina's role is true.

Pros:
If true, no mislynches.
If true, no ridonkulous town power roles need to claim and out to scum.
If true, possibility of project: overwhelming townblock.
If true, scum has to leash their scumkill to town's whims in order to stop the clear train.
If false, mastina doesn't endgame regardless.
If false, only dangerous to town in case of Overwhelming scum power. Mastina is not town, so would not contribute to town power levels. Therefore, there would be an equal balance of town power to fuck with scum's day.

Cons:
If false, mastina doesn't die soon.
If false, no clears.
If false, we no lynch consecutively for no reason.

CAn anyone else think of a single pro or con I missed, because to me it looks like an easy decision to try for a bunch of clears here.

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1. Mastina doesn't understand the role
2. Mastina has not divulged the entirety of the role
3. Scum have something to stop this role if it is as-described and a town role
4. Mastina's scum and lying about the role.

1 is unlikely.
2 is likely, but not necessarily a bad thing.
3 is possible(probable?), but there's a very limited pool of mechanics I'd use to balance it out and we can start looking to play around those. (To my mind, Godfather, miller, cult stand out. I'm probably missing something.)
4 is very unlikely imo. That seems so far out of mastina's character that I have no idea how to reconcile it. Additionally, it's caught by any negative investigation result on any of her clears, which if she's scum is incredibly likely given the whole: absence of town power bit. I could maybe see the gambit being a Godfather-gladiator, but the fix there is to investigate clears that survive a suspiciously long time, not lynch the potential uberrole.

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I'm going to at some point, but it might be well after the game is over. I've already read some of it, but when I did so I wasn't really interested in most players or solving the game.

Oh, also, GTMH, NR slot is town.

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I don't see how my ability counters your gladiate, though?
I can only do mine once
Also the effectiveness of your gladiate is decided when it happens
Like your ability is meant to confirm if someone is scum or town
The gladiate part is negative utility, if anything
So doesn't my ability let us ESCAPE the negative utility of your ability?

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Varsoon, if you use your ability, can we vote outside of the gladiate? Because holy shit, that would be crazy townsided and if so we're doing that today. mastina gladiates someone, proves they're town, and then you let us vote for a lynch separate from that by PM? If that's how that works then this game is really bonkers.

Hidden voting is way less useful than getting a second consecutive lynch. We just need to arrive at two lynch consensus' before deadline to be able to do it.

Mastina, what's the Chickadee case?

VOTE: Vecna

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when is vecna not town here

When post restricted D1 and pushing a really bad theory lynch for tomorrow is scummy? Why is he town?

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My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

I call bullshit, btw.

Using rainbows to get around the restriction falls into one of three categories:

1. Encryption, in which case RC would have informed you you were breaking the rules and you wouldn't have continued to do so after being warned.
2. Breaking the PR, in which case you had already broken the PR and there was no point to continue being useless.
3. Not breaking the PR, in which case you had not already broken the PR and there was no danger in continuing to post rainbows to code answers.

If you didn't know, all you had to do was ask, and clearly he was not above asking RC for clarification on his role, given that he negotiated a lesser restriction for himself by his own admission.

Notably, Vecna used rainbows to code things like his fake IC claim, but wouldn't use rainbows to make a readlist. This shows a survivalist motivation, not a gamesolving motivation.

The IC claim and retraction is super bad, given the new claim is glorified FV that confirms flavor/glorified reflexive fruit vendor that can maybe be used for player to player communication with some additional portion of the role to be explained :someday:.

A skim of Vecna's ISO today, on the other hand, left with me a distinct impression of fuckall, with some slight notes of complaining about mastina's role being OP and a big heaping side of attempting to meta lynch FB without addressing FB's claim that Vec is incapable of reading him.

Why is literally any of this worth a town read, let alone "When is Vecna not town?"

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WAIT
PORKENS IS IN THIS GAME
VOTE: PORKENS

This appears to be a policy lynch vote.

Are you aware that policy lynching in this case solves approximately 0% of anything, given we intend to use mastina's gladiate to confirm the alignment of the player we run up?

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Notably, Vecna used rainbows to code things like his fake IC claim, but wouldn't use rainbows to make a readlist. This shows a survivalist motivation, not a gamesolving motivation.

Also, this is WAY WAY worse when you realize that Vecna town wasn't in danger of dying. Vecna town was in danger of being confirmed to be town. Only Vecna scum gets killed when run up while the whole mastina gladiate bit is around, unless Vecna town believes himself to be so incredibly useful to the town that scum will out themselves for a quickhammer there.

A hint: Scum outing themselves to quickhammer on D1 is always positive town utility.

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So, atm, we have mastina town, jjh town, kuroi town, me town, NR town.

Vecna scum.

Vecna scumflip means FB prolly town. Porkens maybe town?

Should I be able to add anything to that PoE right now, or should I just start chipping away at the player list?

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Still waiting on someone to explain the Chickadee scumcase, btw.

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Step 1: Steal underpants.
Step 2: Read randomidget iso
Step 3: Lynch randomidget
Step 4: Profit

-RH

FTFY.

In other news, reading randomidget's ISO has moved to the top of my priority list for this game. Congratulations, your input has been accepted.

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Well. That was an exciting minute of reading.

Is there more to the push than lynch all lurkers, because I'd rather not policy lynch a slot based on the player in it being an unreadable sack of lurktasticness that is already getting replaced?

Cause, um.... I don't see how rm is especially likely to be scum over town. And more to the point, I don't see how conftown "random player in rm's slot" does us any more good than conftown "player who has actively been scummy".

Profit analysis: minimal.

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Also, did anyone else notice the deadline says 2 days now?

Or was it just me?

Also, yay, more fresh blood!

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Agreed. His ISO is full of shitposting to the exclusion of posting content.

Does that in anyway invalidate:

A. This is a policy lynch.
B. If we policy lynch the slot, it will continue to be around and thus not really policy lynched at all.
C. He is currently being replaced.

Further, do you have any evidence to suggest rm shitposting into a replacement is more likely to indicate scum than town?
Do you have such a massive preponderance of townreads that you have no other avenues of inquiry?
Do I ever give up on the pretentious ass persona I've adopted for this post?

Find out on the next episode of [90'S ANIME REFERENCE NOT FOUND]!

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B. If we policy lynch the slot, it will continue to be around and thus not really policy lynched at all.

I suppose this should be might.

The point stands. Mastina's role, while incredibly protown, vastly reduces the effectiveness of policy lynches, because we're not weeding the chaff out of town. We're making their lack of contribution even more detrimental.

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In case it is unclear, at this point the only policy lynch that I will humor is a BoP lynch.

And this is the point in the game where we convince RC to sub into the game, conftown him, and then park a protective on him and listen to what he tells us.

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Fair enough.

I don't believe rm is particularly more likely to shitpost and troll to the exclusion of playing as town or scum, and thus have him marked as null currently. Should I decide I don't have somewhere I'd rather push, you are particularly town and worthy of sheepage, or rm slot is more likely scum than town I will return to your suggestion.

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how about you actually read d1 instead of just my iso if youre gonna cherrypick some nonsense to suit whatever aganda youre pusbing here jingle?

first of all, i was at risk of dying, and was at like l2 or whatever. I wouldve been the lynch for certain if i hadnt done what i did. anyone that has ever played mafia would know how that situation wouldve played out if i continue doing what i did.

And as ive stated before, I indeed did not feel like doing readslist and going through a shitton of effort to rainbow code them when the entire game was dead and on lazymode, and like two people had provided reads. you can throw any fancy terminology at it to frame it anyway you like, but its bullcrap and only going to grab the attention of people like invisibility.

Yes. I'm going to drop every avenue of discussion until I've read everything.

First of all, no Vecna WASN'T at risk of dying, and to say otherwise is incredibly bleh. You know who got wagoned yesterday? Kuroi. You know who is now conftown? Kuroi.

Vecna was at risk of dying in precisely one situation: mastina's gladiate failed against him. That would happen because A: mastina was scum fakeclaiming for some reason (One for one trades benefit town) or B: Vecna was scum. To claim he didn't think he was going to be gladiated, he also would have to have been fully unaware of something that happened on like page 2. Which... Bullshit.

It was too much effort to give a readslist is A. Bullshit and B. Not the reasoning Vecna gave for not providing a readslist.

Vecna claimed he didn't because he was worried that continuing to post in the manner he had been posting would somehow suddenly become breaking his PR. Which is not how rules work. Either posting colors to convey messages was breaking the restriction or it wasn't.

If Vecna claimed he wasn't following along well enough to have reads, I would've raised an eyebrow, but would have accepted it. But he didn't. He claimed that he felt he would break his PR.

Additionally:

IC claim and retraction goes unanswered.
Not having a town D2 goes unanswered.
Attempting to lynch a player on meta while not acknowledging the assertion he has a history of misreading that player goes unanswered.
Incredibly bad approach to uber-role goes unanswered.

Yup. My case is cherrypicking things. I'm totally ignoring the context of you being wagoned when I say that you showing up to defend yourself (and fakeclaim D2 IC) but not showing up to provide reads is scummy. I'm sure you have a nice bridge to sell me too.

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Do I need to read 110 pages or is there a quick tl;dr for me?

Haven't finished reading myself, but I can give you what I know.

There's a wagon on Chickadee, which I have asked for an explanation of multiple times. The only response was Chickadee telling me that mastina can't read her.

There's a list of claims I'll dig up in a second.

Vecna had an "optional post restriction" day one that he apparently succeeded at. He claimed D2 IC through the post restriction while being run up, and retracted at the beginning of D2.

Mastina has claimed an insanely OP role that functionally makes it impossible to mislynch anyone as long as she's alive, and is lurkery due to RL shit. Vecna thinks we should lynch her to prove her role.

rm active lurked hard and meme men wants to lynch you.

jjh is pretty obvtown.

Can't think of anything else really important atm, but I'm not much farther along the getting caught up trail than you are.

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Mastina claims loyal town gladiator

whose gladiate can be no lynched

Vecna had an optional post restriction D1 he played out for role related benefits.

Claimed Flavor confirming fruit vendor and reflexive fruit vendor that could choose the flavor of the reflexive vend (via what music is playing in his house) with some additional power that he got from only posting in Cornholio quotes D1.

Skygazer is/was ascetic
I'm a video vendor. I can vend any time.
Firebringer can give guns????

I can't remember at the moment what else we've covered claim wise.

Varsoon claimed he can lock the thread and have everyone vote by PM before they are all counted simultaneously.
I claimed that my action has something to do with whether or not people can act at night.

Bolded mine.

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when is vecna not town here

Why is literally any of this worth a town read, let alone "When is Vecna not town?"

Still waiting on this answer, Vizzy.

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This post took 3 minutes to make. It would not take significantly longer to change the numbers into the letters of the cornholio posts. This is a shitton of work.

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This post took 3 minutes to make. It would not take significantly longer to change the numbers into the letters of the cornholio posts. This is a shitton of work.

Would he be able to make that abundantly clear though? I doubt it

You realize that jjh made an outright request for him to make a post in this format right? Like... It would have been abundantly clear, because at that point in time it had already been requested he do this.

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If youre gonna claim stuff, at least read them posts youre referring to properly. I stated straight away in that post it was bullshit to ask me to push through reads lists while noone is doing readslists and I have a post restriction.

And if you cannot see that when its D1, Mastina hasnt been sighted in forever, noone has seen the gladiate in play yet, and you suddenly get ran up to near lynch in extremely rapid fashion, that someone might think he's about to be quickhammered, youre not even trying to read into a situation. Youre just trying to reinforce an idea that you formed.

You were at 9 votes on page 66. Also on page 66, mastina comes in to post that she will be able to play the next day. On page 67, with no additional votes you claim IC.

Its cool youre trying to be all hipster and the like and take on the person being townread by everyone (except maybe 1-2 people), but they generally have good reason for it. Being, they were there, and they know what actually transpired. Being an iso-warrior can be helpfull at times, here its giving you the completely wrong context and youre just trying to brute-force everything to fit your theory.

Note: I've requested elaboration on why you are town. I've requested information on why Chickadee (the only real wagon) is scum. I've requested any other starting place.

So far, this has resulted in "Vecna has been gamesolvey" "Mastina can't read me" and "check out this lurker ISO". None of which are satisfactory responses.

Whether its scummy or just good-natured ignorance remains to be seen, but just drop it. Itll get you nowhere, and it has given you the wrong conclusion.

I'm not going to "drop it" until I'm convinced that I'm wrong. That's how you approach sorting people in games of mafia.

And yes, Ill continue to state that when your role PM stated "youre allowed one line of text" and you ask the gm to allow you more lines "for the purpose of fun" that abusing those extra lines allowed to code messages with colouring somewhat goes against the spirit of the game. Whether you agree with it or not, is completely besides the point. But feel free to continue your crusade I guess.

And I will continue to state that coloring your posts either was or was not breaking the rules. If it was, you'd ALREADY DONE SO. If it wasn't, it wasn't going to magically become against the rules. And if you really were concerned that RC would change his mind about whether it was allowed, you would have checked with him as town.

As for your additional points:

IC claim and retraction goes unanswered.

I'm pretty sure I answered this in my first post. In detail. With my reasoning. Don't pretend I did not. My flavor and role parts are all confirmable, and have been for part of it.

Absolutely nothing in your post explains why that's an acceptable reason to claim IC. Your flavor and claimed role (or rather, the not SECRET part of your role) are confirmable. Your flavor and role also in no way make you town.

Not having a town D2 goes unanswered.

I dont know what this means.

Nothing I see from your D2 leads me to the conclusion you're town. Perhaps I'm missing something in the context, but the lack of anyone in the playerlist being able to describe why you are town doesn't really lend itself to that conclusion. I don't want to go into this too much, because I'm VERY interested to see who jumps to your defense, and how. Which, if you're a universal townread as claimed should be quite the herd of bodies.

Attempting to lynch a player on meta while not acknowledging the assertion he has a history of misreading that player goes unanswered.

The only person im trying to lynch on Meta is Porkens. Ive dropped my shit against FB (for now) and the "we might have to lynch Mastina" has nothing to do with meta, but everything to do with the fact she's not participating, but spending a bunch of (apparently phone-time) posting extremely long posts detailing her private life. This is not the main reason though. Ill detail this in another post.

The only person you're currently trying to lynch on meta is Porkens. Which tbh, I don't care to deal with just now. Porkens ISO seems slightly less useless than I'd expect from my limited experience with Porkens scum, your primary support appears to be a policy vote, and I frankly don't have time to do an extra metadive before day end.

Incredibly bad approach to uber-role goes unanswered.

Im also not sure what this means. You have no clue about my role, and im not gonna give you more information regardless.

Ignoring the comment on your role, which I'm not getting into in case I'm wrong and my setup spec just ends up helping scum.

The uber role I'm referring to is mastina's. And that deserves its own post.

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Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

Don't use today. If we can get confirmation that it works protown, 100% using it tomorrow when we have a little more time for coordination.

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jjh
Innocent Children
Rylai and Rina
Maid Cafe
WhemeStar
Lady Angel
Titus
NicoRobin

that's my PoE

Sup creature

Can you expand on your experience with random because I haven't played with him before but he looked scum to me here.

I could join you on titus tho.

Nico I was thinking might be third party due to the triple vote but tbh I am not that good at setup spec. Do you think 5 scum could have a triple voter here?

--rh

If it turns off in LYLO, sure. Regardless it's negative town utility. Is the premise that NR has been acting scum? If so, why?

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So yes, my strong preference is, we run up some dodgy person that wont be missed if scum kill them later on as a townclear, have Mastina gladiate them (or finally form a spine and give her own input/preference maybe, but whatever this also works), and either get a scum caught or lynch Mastina and proceed with two townclears if she flips town that both really wont be missed if scum is forced to kill them.

No.

First of all: Already addressed to some Extent

Second of all: Let us consider the three avenues of balance.

1: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets ridiculous power to compensate. In this case, this would probably be something along the lines of a scumvig, an extra member, 2 godfathers, etc.
2: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets a direct counter to said power. In this case, there's a bunch of options I've considered. Hidden day rb, day lawyer, day tailor, full strongman etc.
3: Town gets ridiculous power, so is disincentived from using it. In this case possibly something like a macho modifier on mastina, a lack of town protectives, or a cult.

Okay, so here it becomes obvious that it is in fact possible to balance mastina's role.

Third of all: Balance fail. We cannot discount it because it does happen, even to the best of mods. It is even more likely here than in normal circumstances because this is A. a UPick which are annoyingly hard to balance at the best of times because of their very nature. B. a role madness large, meaning lots of moving parts to design and fit together, and C. RC had limited time to come up with the setup. As evidenced by Page 1.

Fourth of all: The Fakeclaim. Unlikely, because scum tend to avoid fakeclaiming into expiration dates. Additionally unlikely because mastina doesn't like fakeclaiming. Additionally Additionally unlikely because even if mastina did decide to fakeclaim, she would do so in a game that wasn't likely to have a bunch of moving parts she couldn't control to catch her. + part of her claim is confirmable.

Fifth of all: The Scum Realclaim. More likely than 4, but if so mastina has played this claim in the most protown manner someone possibly can.

Now, we put it all together.

It is possible the game is balanced and mastina's role exists. It is further possible that town's chances of winning rely heavily on said role. Therefore we run a risk/benefits analysis.

Scenarios:

Game is unbalanced: Best course of action: who gives a shit.
Mastina is central to our chances: Best course of action: milk her role for all that it can give us.
Scum counter to town mastina: Best course of action: play around possible counters.
Mastina is scum realclaiming: Best course of action: Leash mastina and milk her role for all that it can give us.
Mastina is scum fakeclaiming: Best course of action: Lynch mastina.

Lets look at the worst case scenarios:

Tailor/Lawyer: I'm going to leave discussion on how to play around this til tomorrow because it's too late in the day to do anything about it now.
Cult: The only thing we CAN do is hunt for cult leaders. Which... fuck cult.
Scum Fakeclaiming: We lose x days of lynching, but we don't lose any time with PR's. assuming x is 5 clears, that means we are at 16 alive assuming 1 KPN before we lynch mastina assuming scum don't . mastina dies, meaning one less scum and we have five days of PR results. If scum choose to kill in the 'clear' pool to keep mastina alive longer, they are literally shooting people we would've lynched anyway. If they shoot mastina, it resolves the situation. If mastina is scum, then there is more town power hiding in the wings to make catching her/other scum more likely.

Today, lynching mastina is possibly the stupidest choice we could make, and I think I'm well within rights to BoP you wanting to lynch her today given what I remember of Lynch the Wolves.

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I guess I would flip the question. Do you see any sign of town in nr?

-rh

My impression of NR is that she's lurky as both alignments, but as scum there's a lack of anything and as town there's some attempts to gamesolve that shine through. I see posts that look like they might be progressing the game in her ISO, which means a very slight townlean.

If we were actually capable of policy lynching, I'd be down for it should I have a lack of solid scumreads, but we're not actually capable of policy lynching atm.

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And why is Vecna scum? Based on his role, I'm not willing to want to lynch him first.

You realize his claim is retracted IC claim that then said Fruit Vendor with additional unknown clause, right? Cause that's pretty much the scummiest claim I've ever heard, outside of a straightup scumclaim or the arsonist claim in TM.

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That essentially makes her a public daycop, no? If the target can be NL'd then we get free townreads in exchage for lynching, which is, I suppose, the balance tradeoff. Still hard to believe though.

Yes. It is pretty much a public daycop. And you don't ever lynch a fucking public daycop on D2.

Mastina is not a clear and present threat to the town. By ANY stretch of the imagination.

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Yeah yeah, fancy words. takeaway: we know nothing

So... You're claiming you're an idiot.

Because that whole post? That's all about why it's stupid to lynch mastina. And you've responded to literally 0% of it.

And what I saw of mastina's early play (looking primarily at the claim and surrounding pages) looks town. Your argument of "mastina's not here because RL" is fully NAI wrt her, so it's not even worth addressing.

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If it seems too good to be true though.......

Then there's probably something in the wings you don't understand.

The evidence supports the claim. Leaving the claim to be sorted later is low risk high reward. Lynching the claim is high risk low reward. This is not a difficult concept.

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The logic behind mastina is equivalent to the following scenario. Player claims public daycop. Player claims they are publically daycopping X. Mod posts "Player X is town." Player Y says, "But maybe they're a scum reporter!" Town agrees with Y and lynches the daycop.

You don't fucking lynch a possible public daycop on D2. Ever. The fact that I even have to explain this is infuriatingly baffling.

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Setup speculation:

2 masons (id assume a mason needs a partner, and that they have a hood)
3+ people in a hood that can kill people and recruit people
2 kills last night.
A confirmed town jailkeeper and neighbouriser.
3-4 scum in a pt

Part 1: The kills
We had two kills last night, and Math states the hood didnt kill. Unless the 2nd kill of last night was made by a 1shot vig type of ability, were looking at 3 potential kills for all following nights. Thats a LOT of kills to be in town hands.

Part 2: The clears and potential for mass amounts of town clears.
2 Masons, and a PT cop that has a pool of 15 people to scan in if a lynch occurred day1. Assuming the neighbouriser wouldve lived thats 2 masons + the good community x2 + 3-4 scum + whatever is the special hood. Its quite likely the neighbouriser or the special community would recruit from people already in hoods though. So out of the 15 people, roughly 10-12 would be expected to be in hoods (im starting to feel quite left out here). Roughly 30-40% to create an extra 2 townclears every night, depending on whether hoods close down if only 1 person is left (hebi + whoever she would get an inno result on).

Part 3: being able to break the setup by mass claim.
If what everyone has been claiming is true, this game could be broken by massclaim on Day2 or Day3 quite easily. If Hebi wouldve gotten a clear on either N1 or N2 thats 4 townclears right there. If that vig that shot TGP wouldve hit scum (if it came from town) thats another potential townclear. The neighbourizer could claim and be seen as a clear probably. All of this leads to the question: How hard would it really be to break a setup that is designed as people are claiming? Because this looks to me that at least one of the major pieces in here is probably lying. Massclaim day 3 with anywhere between 3-6 townclears that can be followed by a lynch and 2 kills that night?

Also: Example of Vecna town setup speccing.

Note: he doesn't believe all the PR claims (he was right, btw, the claimed seer was in fact a scum seer. The claimed tracker was a scum tracker.) He also doesn't advocate lynching the PR's because it's too good to be true. He tries to get town utility out of them in the early game, and then went back to sort them in the late game.

BoP says: Vecna isn't this stupid, therefore Vecna is scum.

[Jingle]

You take the early mild inconvenience, not the late massive one.

Except that it's not a late massive one.

You're trading a potential gamesolve for almost no potential gain.

Assuming normal mafia numbers, we are 9 town deaths away from LYLO. 9. if we no lynch 3 more times, that number is 6, with a possible 5 confirmed town. That's still 3 mislynches, with a guaranteed scumlynch, if mastina is scum. Additionally, there's no potential for outing serious town power, because we don't need claims as long as mastina is alive.

Mastina, if scum, is caught by any investigative role. If she is town and we continue using her role, scum functionally have to kill either her or her investigations or they lose. This isn't rocket science.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Chickadee

[Jingle]

Oh, wait, that's how the gladiate starts. Doh.

[Jingle]

Game is not bastard, cult and tailor shouldn’t be possible

2) Whether the setup is bastard or not, there will not be any mechanics that involve lying to players outside of standard fare (ninjas, godfathers).

BTW.

[Jingle]

Oh yeah and Vecna, if you could do a makeshift readslist by rainbowposting where the first 22 letters are coloured individually depending on the read for the 22 players in order on the list that would be great

Use red for scum, green for town and yellow for null I guess

Also btw.

[Jingle]

Jingle, care to inform us how much of the game you have actually read?

You seem way pretty darn confident in all your stances for someone that just replaced in, and really aware of all the shit going on.

I read a good chunk of D1 some weeks ago for reasons I can't go into right now.

I read up until your post restriction showed up when Rylai and Shino (the hydra that is now Meme Men) was being replaced, decided fuck post restrictions and didn't replace in.

I have read the following ISOs: jjh, rm, Vecna, mastina, NR, Porkens (Not in order, and not all since replacing in). I've read everything since I replaced in, or will have soon.

I have read the full ISO of the mod.

I have read 2-3 pages at a time around big events. Particularly, I read most of the super early game two or three times to make sure I caught everything and the section around jjh's wall stuck out to me.

[Jingle]

she is the endgame player for his team.

This is never accurate, btw.

[Jingle]

VOTE: No Lynch

I'd like to see one of Jingle/Vecna gladiated tomorrow, I don't think that was a town vs town argument.

Down. 10000% Down.

[Jingle]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Jingle]

please tell me why scum doesn’t just fake claim that to coast all game and fuck town over on information.

Let me give you a list of roles that would screw with that plan.

Cop.
Gunsmith.
Rolecop.
Desperado.
Vig.
SK.

So... Pretty much every powerful investigation role that exists. One of which was already used in this game. All of which were reasonably likely to be included, because ROLE MADNESS.

[Jingle]

Mastina already noted herself that the mod had no flavor for a no lynch. She even stated the mod had given her a troll role. Hints at the setup not being designated to resolve around a day-cop that relies on a lot of trust being given.

Explain how this, in any way, is an argument for mastina being scum.

[Jingle]

Large 214, read it

Would like to point out, having just read this, that the difference between the disloyal scum claiming loyal and mastina claiming loyal as disloyal would be that disloyal fruit vendor could potentially fake an innocent on a partner. Disloyal gladiator could not. Therefore, this comparison is inherently flawed.

Like, mastina claiming loyal as a disloyal scum gladiator would be borderline game throwing because not only would she not be able to survive to endgame, but she would in fact STILL NECESSARILY be clearing townies.

[Jingle]

VOTE: mastina

Retracting townread or policy lynch?

[Jingle]

S'what I thought.

I can't say I expected more, but dammit man you let grudges get in the way too often.

Also, if you give me a gun and don't lynch mastina I'll shoot NR for you.

[Jingle]

Nah. I'm just willing to let you die to save mastina.

And my read on you is a very limited meta read that has been counterindicated by pretty much everyone else.

[Jingle]

Um. So this is kind of awkward.

Do you know of any completed games we have together? Or equally likely, games that you were in that I may have been tangentially related to?

I have an impression of your game that I thought was from GiF's large, but I just went back to check and you weren't even in that game.

And now I have to try and figure out if that means I'm confusing you with someone or if I just have the wrong game.

[Jingle]

reads are really terrible

They objectively are.

I didn't want to bring this up, but the reads list wall you made is pretty much 100% of the reason I'm scumreading Vizzy.

[Jingle]

I resent the implication that I'm sane.

[Jingle]

tf lynching conftown

How is NR conftown?

[Jingle]

tf lynching conftown

How is NR conftown?

I thought we could only lynch between mastina and Chickadee today

Firebringer claimed vig inventor and I offered to shoot his scumread/hate lynch in return for his support in not derplynching mastina. Because he's townreading mastina and still voting her on policy.

NicoRobin's still probtown

Maybe. My meta is weak and apparently poorly remembered, but that is what I thought. But she also supports the mastina lynch and is a triple voter, which means major problem.

[Jingle]

And to just generally address the “her claiming that opens her up to getting busted by 6 roles”: I think that why she would have claimed, to prevent some cop or such from picking her from the crowd. As for vig/desp/SK, claiming also avoids Vig as that’s a big risk. SK not so much as it has a different MO. Desperado I think is fair, and tbh now that you bring that up I’m pissed Wh4t decided to hero shoot instead of shooting mastina which could have made this not an issue.

As cop, if someone claims a role that seems too good to be true do you A. Ignore that or B. Determine whether it's scum or town?

A hint. One of those leaves the possibility of a conftown Uber role.

The vig possibility is more to do with the fact that it would mean that scummastina wouldn't really be doing much because we'd still be getting flips.

[Jingle]

I'm gonna take your lack of answer as: "I don't know what game that could be" NR. Sigh. Now to backtrack through the last 2-3 months of reading games. Joy.

[Jingle]

S'what I thought.

I can't say I expected more, but dammit man you let grudges get in the way too often.

Also, if you give me a gun and don't lynch mastina I'll shoot NR for you.

You do this to gamma emerald instead and it’s a deal.

I don’t care enough about NicoRobin to want her dead

Wait, I can save a hard townread by shooting a null read instead of a townlean?

You realize you're sweetening the pot, right?

Done and done.

[Jingle]

And because she's town, but, you know, I probably wouldn't be bargaining for her life without her role being involved so that's a fair assessment.

[Jingle]

Nah, you are townreading her solely because of her role. If I am wrong and you're also townreading her because of her play.......well, then it would be a different story entirely.

I'm not arguing that she's town because of her play because I shouldn't have to. The role should be more than enough.

With that said, this IS mastina's towngame, and the only real argument to the contrary I've seen is her lack of presence, which has never been an alignment indicative mastina tell.

[Jingle]

I'm gonna take your lack of answer as: "I don't know what game that could be" NR. Sigh. Now to backtrack through the last 2-3 months of reading games. Joy.

Lack of answer to what

I remember her from some game and was hoping she'd know what it was. I'm gonna have to dig through the completed games I've read to see if it's because I'm actually remembering her or if I'm somehow conflating her with someone from the game I thought she was in. TBF, it was kind of a longshot, most of the games I read no one ever finds out.

[Jingle]

oh i just wanted ot confirm her role

Which is where we get back to policy lynching any kind of cop claim on D2 is terrible.

[Jingle]

Role shouldn't be the sole factor in reading someone. mastina will tell you that herself when she gets here

She has before, and I disagree.

I'm also not saying the role inherently means that she is town. I'm saying the role should not be lynched on D2 because the upsides if it is town far outweigh the downsides if it isn't.

Mastina being town has nothing to do with that, and, frankly, is more difficult to argue. The strength of the first argument SHOULD be enough to keep her alive.

[Jingle]

So what I'm hearing, Nico, is that if you're town, Mastina is solveable from your point of view and you still want to lynch her?

I don't think Porkens claimed yesterday. Did he?

[Jingle]

What did you mean by GiF’s Large? The Grand Idea Overdrive game?

Fallout 4.

[Jingle]

If NR had rolecopped mastina, we would have confirmation/denial of the loyal modifier.

If mastina is a loyal scum gladiator, Kuroi AND Chick are also scum. Mastina is not that dumb.
If mastina is not loyal, she is fakeclaiming scum.

NR's role literally solves the mastina problem.

[Jingle]

Oh, also, I found the game.

NR reminds me of NR from Cheetory's UPick that I balanced. I'm not rereading that mess to see if it holds up under scrutiny.

[Jingle]

She was town there, though, FWIW.

[Jingle]

Yeah, she has an expiration date. That date isn't today. I'm of the opinion that date should be when she has 5 clears.

Alternatively, if NR gives us a rolecop result on her, she will either be conftownish or actually IN a 1v1.

[Jingle]

reads are really terrible

They objectively are.

I didn't want to bring this up, but the reads list wall you made is pretty much 100% of the reason I'm scumreading Vizzy.

Was this scum truthtelling?

Nah, just objectively true.

Your reads list was approximately half the town is weak townreads but they're good enough to fool you, approximately half the town is null reads, 2 players are scum (Note, this is FB and Porkens) and 2 players are town (Including the innocent result.)

That's a for shit reads list, and thinking you should be obvtown for gamesolving when that is the result is suspicious as hell.

[Jingle]

I reiterate: don't vig me until I out my result.

Not gonna vig you at all. The deal I made with FB was to kill GE in return for a day's reprise on mastina. When I offered to have it be you it was when your only claimed power was triple voter, and I most certainly wouldn't vig a claimed rolecop.

[Jingle]

Ok
But Jingle was proposing to shoot Nico
Who is literally the one person who can prove or disprove mastina as far as we know
Does that not strike you as shady?

And how, pray tell, was I going to know NR was a rolecop 5 pages before she claimed rolecop?

[Jingle]

Oh. 2985.

Missed the crumb entirely.

[Jingle]

In post 2737, Jingle wrote:
In case it is unclear, at this point the only policy lynch that I will humor is a BoP lynch.

Who would you use BOP on? BOP is a trash argument anyways.

In this case, Vecna.

And no,

in this case

, it's not a trash argument. Because the player you're BoP-ing gets confirmed, not killed. If you are correct, you've removed a good scum player. If you are incorrect, you've confirmed a good player to be town.

[Jingle]

True facts.

[Jingle]

Burden of Proefincy which is basically "you're to good to have not lynched scum thus YOU are scum!" but uhhh...I don't think Jingle is using it right?

That is an application of it. More generally, it is you are playing below the expected level, and thus are probably scum.

[Jingle]

ok...so if you are using BOP to policy Vecna how does that confirm him but not kill him?

Mastina's role.

If we run Vecna up on BoP and mastina gladiates, three things happen.

Mastina is proven to have faked a guilty and we lynch her the following day.
Vecna becomes conftown with an asterisk.
Vecna becomes confscum and we lynch him.

Given that two of the three big problems I have with Vecna's play are the IC claim and retraction into a NAI role and Vecna's sketchy behavior around mastina's role, having him confirmed town or scum is ideal. I don't have the possibility of accidentally lynching major power because if town he doesn't get lynched, he gets confirmed. I also don't run the risk of accidentally lynching a strong player over tunneling them. And, if I'm right and the hoofbeats mean Vecna is scum, I get rid of a big threat early. A win in every scenario.

[Jingle]

One of three things happen.

[Jingle]

No Lynch: jj, Sky, Varsoon, LA, Jingle, Meme Men, Creature, Gemerald, FB, Vizzy, Ari, WhemeStar, Chick, Vecna, NR,
Mastina:
Bad Option

Considering we have 15 votes for No Lynch, we're just waiting on RC to be around to lock thread.

[Jingle]

Mastina shouldn’t gladiator nico unless we’re already going to lynch nico. If we choose to have her gladiate while she is the lynch target, she targets not nico so we still get a conftown if nico is faking the guilty. Additionally, if mastina flips disloyal, nico is p town based on use of role and thus a bad cop target anyway. If we’re lynching nico, sure, mastina gladiators there.

[Jingle]

Mastina shouldn’t gladiator nico unless we’re already going to lynch nico. If we choose to have her gladiate while she is the lynch target, she targets not nico so we still get a conftown if nico is faking the guilty. Additionally, if mastina flips disloyal, nico is p town based on use of role and thus a bad cop target anyway. If we’re lynching nico, sure, mastina gladiators there.

Wrong

Town Nico means Scum Mastina - gladiate succeeds
Scum Nico and Town Mastina - gladiate fails
Scum Nico and Scum Mastina - who the fuck knows

We’re in a 1v1. If we decide that mastina is the more likely town, mastina gladiators Nico.
If we decide we’re going to lynch mastina, mastina gladiators not nico and we lynch mastina.
Both of them being scum is extremely unlikely imo.

None of that changes with what you just posted. It’s just the highest ev use of power.

Also, scum disloyal gladiator is still a public daycop for town.

[Jingle]

We make the decision before the gladiate even happens. Because if we decide to lynch mastina and she flips town loyal gladiator, we already now nico is scum and a different gladiator target tells us more.

[Jingle]

Then you want to lynch nico. Which is the decision we’re making before the gladiate even happens.

I’m not advocating not making a decision. I’m advocating hedging our bets for the chance we choose wrong.

[Jingle]

Gingie.

Also, I have to consider whether somethings are best shared or not shared.

[Jingle]

No. If she’s scum, a successful disloyal gladiate is still a townclear.

If she’s scum, we don’t have a guaranteed way of lynching scum because she could easily be faking the trigger condition for her gladiate ability to setup a fake guilty.

The only solid way we can be sure of their alignments is if the gladiate is successful, in which case nico is town and mastina is scum. If we decide that that is the likely case anyway, then hell yes I want to have an insurance policy in case we chose wrong.

[Jingle]

Agreed.

[Jingle]

We should probably actually do this through pseudo voting to prevent quickhammers at all.

Bolded FoS should do the trick. Additionally, we need to resolve this well in advance of deadline. So let’s say our fos count deadline is 1 week.

[Jingle]

Mastina CLAIMED to have to publically activate it. That could have been a lie. And, in fact, if she’s scum that’s the only reasoning I see for playing the way she has outside of trying to get a godfather clear on a buddy.

[Jingle]

Also, both of those are just terribly anti town powers in a vacuum.

[Jingle]

Yup. Which is intriguing.

I’m still waiting on mastina’s entrance. How many claims/partial claims do we have percentage wise? I might have important info to share but doing so might backfire hard if that number is too high.

[Jingle]

Also, everyone needs to stop claiming, in case my last post doesn’t make that clear. Only claim if you actually have useful information at this point.

[Jingle]

Not the issue at all. I’m serious about wanting to know what percentage of the player list has claimed.

[Jingle]

I’ll do an fos votecount when I can computer, not gonna bother on phone.

[Jingle]

For the record, you’re claiming that you were explicitly told that mastina’s role is triggered by claiming a guilty in the thread?

[Jingle]

Mastina shouldn’t gladiator nico unless we’re already going to lynch nico. If we choose to have her gladiate while she is the lynch target, she targets not nico so we still get a conftown if nico is faking the guilty. Additionally, if mastina flips disloyal, nico is p town based on use of role and thus a bad cop target anyway. If we’re lynching nico, sure, mastina gladiators there.

Again: what motivation does mastina have to give any more clears as scum? With Ari it was clearly an oversight, but yours looks like misleading.
And btw this is a to everyone that you should probably be eyeing Jingle after mastina flips scum.

Do the words insurance policy mean anything to you?

[Jingle]

I’m still waiting for a response, and will respond when I stop having reasons not to.

[Jingle]

Nico to my question you prematurely answered for her.
Mastina in general.
And the percentage of claimed/semi claimed players.

All of these are important.

[Jingle]

You realize you literally can’t be mislynched, right?

[Jingle]

Like, by both my plan and jjs, it is impossible to mislynch you.

[Jingle]

Also, confirm/deny that you recurved the full role pm please.

[Jingle]

Yo NicoRobin, is Mastina faking the trigger condition for her gladiate ability

No, she was just lying about being loyal.

Then again, why even ask? You will scumread me no matter what, because that's the only way you can save mastina, and you will ignore any and all posts which don't fit into your narrative.

Get ready to burn when I flip town.

kthxbai

Explain.

[Jingle]

Oh hey it's scum!Jingle coaching scum!NicoRobin into not backing herself more into the corner

lol.

[Jingle]

Like, by both my plan and jjs, it is impossible to mislynch you.

It is possible if you came up with the plan where mastina refuses and you make up reasons why I am scum and then mislynch me anyway.

Lol harder.

[Jingle]

Belay that Porkens, we might be able to solve this without you claiming. 2IRL days at most.

[Jingle]

Did I miss anyone

I softed mine, but that doesn't really matter to the question. I'm going to evaluate all of those to see if my claiming something here is positive or negative utility.

[Jingle]

What if she chooses to gladiate someone else?

We lynch her.

By both plans.

My plan is specifically that if we decide we're going to lynch her, we have her gladiate not you first because then if we're wrong and we're lynching town, we can get an additional clear. And then we lynch her, as we had previously decided.

[Jingle]

2/3 of the potential people could still be it. Good enough.

We have a loud doc. I was targeted last night.

[Jingle]

Agreed, but the knowledge that a doc exists is very useful for town to have.

[Jingle]

She'll have got the whole role PM because that's how well designed rolecops in theme games work

This is the variant, not the normal version of the role.

If NR had committed to the variant then your plan would have been better. If she would have committed to the normal version of the role without it being made into a big deal before hand, we would have had slight evidence that she was the normal version of the role. As it is, your answering for her tainted my line of questioning. Thanks. The inconsistency in which role she has from her is in face scummy, though, so I'll give you that.

Okay, next post is strategy optimazation posted from a computer and thus formatting should be easier.

[Jingle]

NOBODY ELSE CLAIM SHIT


WE HAVE A GODDAMN LOUD DOCTOR


UNLESS YOU HAVE A GUILTY, HIDING THE FUCKING DOCTOR IS THE BEST USE OF ANY UNCLAIMED ROLE.

[Jingle]

[color=]

NOBODY ELSE CLAIM SHIT


WE HAVE A GODDAMN LOUD DOCTOR


UNLESS YOU HAVE A GUILTY, HIDING THE FUCKING DOCTOR IS THE BEST USE OF ANY UNCLAIMED ROLE.

[/color]

[Jingle]

Okay, so this is going to be the full chain of events. I'm assuming, for the record, that NR is the normal version of rolecop because she already has a variant role and RC is part of the NRG. Not necessarily a safe assumption, but a reasonable one.



We, as a town, use FoS to decide which of NR and mastina is scummier.

If we decide we are going to lynch NR, mastina uses her gladiate on NR. If she refuses to make the bolded post she has previously, then she is scum and thus we turbo lynch her.
If she posts the bolded post she has previously and nothing happens, we lynch NR. If NR flips town, we know the guilty on mastina is real, and mastina faked a guilty on NR. We give her a chance to gladiate someone the next day in case shenanigans and she gets lynched, whether or not she chooses to do so. If NR flips scum, mastina is town. This is all common between both plans.

If we decide we are going to lynch mastina, mastina uses her gladiate on someone who is not NR. Preferably someone whose presence as a conftown is very powerful for the town. We then proceed to lynch mastina. If mastina is disloyal scum, we have an additional clear. If mastina is loyal town, we would have lynched her anyway but we get an additional clear/guilty. If mastina is not disloyal scum, we get a guilty on NR.

Note, the decision on whether mastina gladiates NR or Not NR comes after we, as a town, have chosen which of the two is scummier. A topic which I have yet to weigh in on today.

Additionally, if, like jj, you think it's impossible mastina is faking the trigger to her gladiate, then you can just vote that you think NR is scummier, because in that situation you believe that mastina will be caught anyway.

My plan is literally an insurance policy that gives us an additional clear if we decide to lynch mastina and she IS town. Further, it makes people take a stance on which one they'd like to see flip, before the gladiate, which means we have an untainted wagon to analyze.

And I'm suggesting we use FoS instead of voting to prevent the possibility of quick hammers entirely.

[Jingle]

Well designed rolecops in theme games get the full role PM because otherwise you have to ask "What does X mean"

It is entirely possible to have a role cop in a theme game who gets nonspecific results. It in fact lowers the level of power of the role.

Regardless, this is an argument for why Nico is scum, not an argument for why my plan is inferior.

[Jingle]

Your plan only has any merit if you're paranoid about Mastina having faked the gladiate trigger

Yes. And I am. And it only really differs from yours if enough other people are paranoid to be able to lynch mastina if the gladiate fails anyway.

Plus, you know, accountable wagon, but that's apparently not important.

Also note, not voting mastina, nor have I mentioned whether I would or not.

[Jingle]

I don’t buy this

?

[Jingle]

You kept parroting how she was town and never considered the possibility that she could be scum, not even once.

There are not even words.

[Jingle]

I am literally being called scum by two different people, one because my plan is designed around too many interaction possibilities and the other because I'm not considering 50% of those too many possibilities.

On a scale from one to even, I just can't.

[Jingle]

I don’t buy this

?

[Jingle]

JJ, why does scum nico do literally anything she's done today?

[Jingle]

I'll give you a "Faked a guilty to try and get people to jump on a wagon before she gets the chance to gladiate on the off-chance people forget she's hated"

20 alive, 11 to lynch. That assumes 9 derpvotes by town before mastina, Porkens, or any logical player joined the thread. Additionally, assumes that none of her scumteam could come up with a better way to win a fakeguilty gambit against a slot that already had a ton of suspicion for being "too powerful". By this logic, Nico Robin's scumteam is the worst players in the thread mechanically speaking. Which means they're also the people most likely to run into the fake guilty.

Derp Logic.

The only reason a scumteam pulls this gambit is to get NR derptownread. Which is only possible if there is a reasonable expectation that NR could derptown. So, we're left with two conclusions. Either NR is derping, or NR is pretending to be derping. Why do you think it's the latter over the former?

[Jingle]

Yes, but why is she scum?

[Jingle]

Like, do you not understand the logic of "bad enough to fakeclaim a guilty that is easily caught as scum means also bad enough to fakeclaim a guilty that is easily caught as town?"

[Jingle]

Okay, so in scenario 1, how does you faking a guilty end up in my plan?

I will not argue further with scum. I asked for one simple analysis entertaining the possibility mastina is scum in your next post, and you didn't give it.

Therefore, you three are scum and you are protecting mastina.

So I see no point in arguing with you.

I will have all three of you lynched sooner or later, make no mistake about that. It starts the moment mastina refuses to gladiate me.

Will you reconsider this position if you get a PM telling you mastina is a loyal gladiator? Cause we're totes waiting for that before resolving this. And you lying about the contents would literally be gamethrowing.

[Jingle]

Would you consider changing yours positions if I find out info that condemns her?

If you promise me, 100%, that you will not fakeclaim this result as town, and you get an incriminating result on mastina, I will return to the premise that one of the two of you must be scum and determine which one of you it is using every method at my disposal. Which, notably, was my position before mastina claimed you faked a guilty. If you get the information that mastina is a loyal gladiator, either mastina is town or both Chickadee and Kuroi are scum with her and this game is going to be super easy.

Note: This does include making Creature elaborate on why mastina is scum now. (In fact, Creature should just do that.)

[Jingle]

Like, do you not understand the logic of "bad enough to fakeclaim a guilty that is easily caught as scum means also bad enough to fakeclaim a guilty that is easily caught as town?"

Yes but I don't believe the motivation to fake the guilty and have provided a potential scum motivation for it

I don't see either "dumb move as scum" or "dumb move as town" as more likely atm, and think you're arguing for what is essentially a policy lynch, incidentally creating a ton of noise while we have other information to consider.

If you'd like to case NR, I'd prefer you do so in a way that isn't going to be the two of you yelling at each other for 50 pages.

If you don't believe NR could behave this way as town, go read Cheet's UPick. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76071

[Jingle]

I also still think her rolecop would give her the full PM because again, this is a theme game

Better point, and worth considering. But attempting to convince NR that she's scum instead of engaging other people to try to convince them/hear their reasoning is, again, counterproductive. Whether or not she is in fact scum. And if you stop tunneling her for a minute I think you'll realize that.

[Jingle]

In that particular game she was a mason with mastina and got into an argument with someone (also town) over a very similar step in logic (hideously OP interaction can't possibly exist) that presupposed information she didn't have. In her defense, a lot of this was caused by another set of players, one scum and one town, fakeclaiming mason together. Fair warning, it's not gonna be a fun read.

[Jingle]

That said I did here that Creature actually played a scumgame with his town meta this one time

all the time, recently. everyone misreads him based on outdated meta

Man, this sucks. Pretending to not have to read creature's slot because of the Creaturetell was super useful as scum the only game I played with him.

[Jingle]

Bullcrap we have a loud doctor, or bullcrap we should avoid claims to hide the loud doctor?

[Jingle]

And if I get proof that she is scum?

I will evaluate the two of you.

Look, I get that you want me to say I'm going to turbo lynch mastina. That's simply not the case. I'm not going to turbo lynch you either. I'm going to reevaluate based on the new information. At the moment, I think you're probably both town. If that read changes due to mechanical reasons, I will need to read, engage with people, determine alignments, and all of that fun stuff to decide which one of you is more likely to be the town party.

I can't promise you any more than that, because to do so would simply be a lie.

[Jingle]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

bullshit as well.

porkens, nico, mastina scum?

Since FB isn't answering and he literally said the same thing, ?

[Jingle]

Um, NR, who is your alt in that game?

I got 4 pages in before realizing you weren't on the player list.

[Jingle]

who received my visit last night?

That's weird, he's not in the game.
/don't hit me for the bad dad jokes/

[Jingle]

Ok, I'm getting nothing out of reading that game page by page, so I'll go back when the NR alt is made public for me.

Great post restriction tho.

[Jingle]

Also, everyone needs to stop claiming, in case my last post doesn’t make that clear. Only claim if you actually have useful information at this point.

I'm mason with Invisibility

HURT:

[Jingle]

Because I know how to get nightkilled, I'm deathproof, and there was a no kill

I know how to get nightkilled too!

Step 1: Roll scum.
Step 2: Submit a nightkill on yourself just before deadline.

It's foolproof!

[Jingle]

In case we mislynched in the 1v1, I was trying to get the optimal number of clears/guilties.

Insurance, in case we fucked up the choice.

[Jingle]

Also, while that game does in fact prove that NR can play mafia, it doesn't look remarkably similar to this game. She didn't get into any big prolonged fights afaict from her ISO.

Am I going to get any more alignment specific information out of the other one, or is that just further proof that NR is in fact capable of playing the game? Cause tbh, I didn't think that was in doubt.

[Jingle]

notionally willing to play sub-optimally just in case she did

"willing to play sub optimally" here means "willing to play around legitimate scum strategies."

[Jingle]

Supposedly NR is going to get a result in two days IRL, so we can afford to wait two IRL days.

I support the nsg lynch if the Vecna lynch is impossible though. For pretty much exactly the same reasons.

[Jingle]

Holy batgeuse, betelman!

What are your feelings on Vecna, Creature, JJH, or anyone else that isn't possibly in a mechanical 1v1 and thus stuck in a limbo of sorts?

[Jingle]

notionally willing to play sub-optimally just in case she did

"willing to play sub optimally" here means "willing to play around legitimate scum strategies."

But why does mastina!scum play ball?

The insurance policy was in case we were lynching mastina.

Like, sequence of events: mastina is chosen as lynch target. We give mastina a chance to Gladiate someone to confirm said person. Mastina either refuses (Lynch with extreme prejudice) or doesn't refuse and we get additional information. And scummastina might choose to give us the additional information to try to convince town to spare her, but more than likely would see the futility of the act and just refuse and get lynched.

Which is why it's insurance. We don't get shit if we drive correctly and get from point a to point b safely. But if some asshole hits us and we kill the wrong player, at least we get SOMETHING back as a consolation prize. (Something in this case being a conftown.

[Jingle]

Your plan only has any merit if you're paranoid about Mastina having faked the gladiate trigger

Yes. And I am.

And it only really differs from yours if enough other people are paranoid to be able to lynch mastina if the gladiate fails anyway.

Plus, you know, accountable wagon, but that's apparently not important.

Also note, not voting mastina, nor have I mentioned whether I would or not.

Okay, so this is going to be the full chain of events. I'm assuming, for the record, that NR is the normal version of rolecop because she already has a variant role and RC is part of the NRG. Not necessarily a safe assumption, but a reasonable one.



We, as a town, use FoS to decide which of NR and mastina is scummier.

If we decide we are going to lynch NR, mastina uses her gladiate on NR. If she refuses to make the bolded post she has previously, then she is scum and thus we turbo lynch her.
If she posts the bolded post she has previously and nothing happens, we lynch NR. If NR flips town, we know the guilty on mastina is real, and mastina faked a guilty on NR. We give her a chance to gladiate someone the next day in case shenanigans and she gets lynched, whether or not she chooses to do so. If NR flips scum, mastina is town. This is all common between both plans.

If we decide we are going to lynch mastina, mastina uses her gladiate on someone who is not NR. Preferably someone whose presence as a conftown is very powerful for the town. We then proceed to lynch mastina. If mastina is disloyal scum, we have an additional clear. If mastina is loyal town, we would have lynched her anyway but we get an additional clear/guilty. If mastina is not disloyal scum, we get a guilty on NR.

Note, the decision on whether mastina gladiates NR or Not NR comes after we, as a town, have chosen which of the two is scummier. A topic which I have yet to weigh in on today.

Additionally, if, like jj, you think it's impossible mastina is faking the trigger to her gladiate, then you can just vote that you think NR is scummier, because in that situation you believe that mastina will be caught anyway.

My plan is literally an insurance policy that gives us an additional clear if we decide to lynch mastina and she IS town. Further, it makes people take a stance on which one they'd like to see flip, before the gladiate, which means we have an untainted wagon to analyze.

And I'm suggesting we use FoS instead of voting to prevent the possibility of quick hammers entirely.

Not Wifom, hedging bets.

[Jingle]

The part where scum!mastina might play along for towncred

You are technically correct (That's the best kind!), but it's also not a hingepoint of my argument. That's WIFOM directed at a hypothetical scum mastina designed to bait her into playing suboptimally. It's also pretty much the least important part of the plan because I doubt anyone thinks mastina would be dumb enough to fall for that obvious of a trap.

The hingepoint of my plan is that I'm considering the case where a hypothetical scummastina's gladiate isn't intrinsically tied to the bold statements in the thread and jj isn't. And I even have a caveat IN MY PLAN to account for the fact that his is superior if you disregard that paranoia. And yet we're STILL talking about this, all of which is tied to a hypothetical minute difference of EV in two plans that might not even be in play at all because the guilty they were responding to was retracted.

[Jingle]

She will get proven as scum anyway if she refuses to gladiate me.

The hell kind of response to Mastina calling your guilty faked is this

Please corroborate if you did indeed lie and then you get to explain why

Yes, I lied.

It was for reaction test which both you and Jingle failed. You kept parroting how she was town and never considered the possibility that she could be scum, not even once. Any rational town would at least consider that possibility too.

Forgive me, but I happen to think this is bullshit.

Why would you, in any scenario, lie about your role for most of day 2 just to claim something under 24 hours to night in a spectacularly poor way, to fake a guilty and then act like you were going to get lynched before you outed the fact that it was faked? You freaked out with maybe one person voting you at absolute maximum after you declared a guilty, even crying about how you were the one that was going to get lynched today despite the fact that Mastina had something like five votes on her and would've been turboed by you with one or two more. And then after Mastina damns your claim, you try to pass it off as this before trying to pick up the same thread you had yesterday on

the next page?

Yes, you could get proof that she is scum, but 1) Mastina can always refuse seemingly and therefore you don't have any way to actually get that information and 2) you lost almost all your credibility after faking a guilty in the worst way possible.

I can't tell if this scum or just really poor play, but either way it's stupid, and that's not even before factoring in the fact that your plan seems to involve the entire scumteam would try to lynch a cop whose results will realistically fail basically every night when they could just nightkill them instead?

VOTE: NicoRobin

I can't decide if this is the worst fake guilty ever or legitimate scum but the fact that you flew off the handle during the period when you declared the guilty and said it was faked makes me lean scum.

Congratulations, you just summed up like 30 posts by jj in a concise, clear, and easy to read manner, invalidating almost 5 pages of back and forth.

Allow me to retort. I think most of it's probably NAI because my limited experience with NR tells me that she is prone to overreacting when she decides town is dismissing her, and a lot of the back and forth reads the same as a town game of hers that I linked a few pages back. Furthermore, with the possibility of a hard reset and additional content being imminently forthcoming, I'd appreciate not alienating the person who may just be town feeling persecuted and reacting as such and give NR the room to back off and give us more content to analyze from her.

I'm not saying NR can't be scum. I'm saying let's table that whole conversation for two IRL days so that she can get an actual result on mastina and go from there.

[Jingle]

I have 14 some odd pages to catch up on. What's the vote count on Mastina?

L-3 at worst, but the guilty has been retracted so you shouldn't be voting there before NR gets an actual result anyway.

She might be mechanically cleared.

[Jingle]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

bullshit as well.

porkens, nico, mastina scum?

I think we should be discussing how laughable it is that anyone is townreading this.

[Jingle]

wtf even is this game anymore.

Insufficient town cohesion driven by apathy, egregious replacement rates, OP roles, mechanics walls and a lack of flips.

[Jingle]

Removing non claim info and updating:

Jingle got targeted by a loud doc N2.

1)

Spoiler: The MEME Men

I'm a double voter town with one shot investigation ability of some sort who will win gladiates if a gladiator targets us. I just had a crisis in life and had to flake and whenever I was online on ms this thread was locked.

I will need till night to catch up and read stuff about this game and to try to communicate with my hydra partner. If I can't get that to work I will replace out

~Sora

2) Northsidegal
3)

Spoiler: Firebringer

wait my role gives guns not allows me to shoot...

u troll rc.

I will give a gun to whoever promises to shoot gamma if he isn't lynched.

4)

Spoiler: Nicorobin

p-edit: Rolecop and triplevoter.

5)

Spoiler: Mastina

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

6) Gamma Emerald
7)

Spoiler: Chickadee

I'm a video vendor. I can vend any time.

8) Skygazer
9)

Spoiler: Varsoon

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

10)

Spoiler: KuroiXHF

I'll die, but I'll come back. And I won't flip.

BTW, I can post at night. I am alive, but not the same as everyone else.

11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14)

Spoiler: Vecna

Alright here goes. Im sort of waiting for someone to pop their head in, but explaining stuff wont hurt (or maybe it will, but itll all be alright). Also on mobile and not at home so this may go in pieces.

JJH was on the right track, but he was asking completely the wrong questions.

My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

The only reason jjh was on my case was because he thought my quotes had ran out. If you just wouldve asked if my pr would last past day1 as a followup, all that nonsense wouldve been prevented. Regardless, I got run up. It is what it is. I claimed IC as an easy way out to at least be able to defend myself today. I judged that if I suddenly started talking normally I definately wouldve been the lynch.

Needless to say I do not have a literal IC role. Its similair'ish but nowhere near as definitive.

My role has three parts:
-I can visit someone at night and harass them. It will be revealed to them that I am beavis, village idiot.
-If anyone visits my house at night, they will hear the music that I am listening too (can choose a song each night).
-If I survive day1 while fullfilling my posting restriction, one of those abilities gets upgraded. Im not revealing what it is, and if any town finds out, please keep it quiet - unless I ask you otherwise.

More later

15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle
19) Nero Cain
20) Creature
21)

Spoiler: jjh927

Yo I'm deathproof and I can freeze people's votes in place

22) Aristophanes

[Jingle]

NOBODY ELSE CLAIM SHIT


WE HAVE A GODDAMN LOUD DOCTOR


UNLESS YOU HAVE A GUILTY, HIDING THE FUCKING DOCTOR IS THE BEST USE OF ANY UNCLAIMED ROLE.

[Jingle]

@somebody voting mastina: Unvote so Nico can't turbo her if Mastina gives her a triplevote.

If Nico gets a triple vote mastina is lying and thus scum. With that said, unvoting the slot that might have a pending inno result is usually a good policy, yeah.

[Jingle]

We're not having this argument for another 10 pages.

Nero, you're objectively wrong. You don't turn off brain and sheep all guilty claims.

jj, stop feeding the thread clog.

[Jingle]

who received my visit last night?

That's weird, he's not in the game.
/don't hit me for the bad dad jokes/

I dont understand this, or why it was quoting my question.

It was a serious question

I explained why in my post. It was a dad joke. There is a user on site named who who thrives on abbott and costello themed bits. If you don't understand what 'dad joke' or 'abbott and costello' means, I suggest google.

[Jingle]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

bullshit as well.

porkens, nico, mastina scum?

I think we should be discussing how laughable it is that anyone is townreading this.

I think we could also discuss how youre not trying to find out what I actually meant with it. Because after all this mechanics talk that you seem to think youre really good at, its just really funny how youre missing the extremely obvious.

I think we could also discuss how that is A. Factually Incorrect and B. Ad Hominem.

Here: I'll start:

Spoiler:

I don’t buy this

?

I don’t buy this

?

Bullcrap we have a loud doctor, or bullcrap we should avoid claims to hide the loud doctor?

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

bullshit as well.

porkens, nico, mastina scum?

Since FB isn't answering and he literally said the same thing, ?

When do we get to lynch Vecna?

VOTE: Vecna

[Jingle]

I'd be fine with that if I believed it were true.

[Jingle]

Porkens, corroborate the mastina claim please.

[Jingle]

we should lynch one of mastina/nico

I was about to call out how dumb this idea was, but I realized something because of it.

[Jingle]

I'd like Porkens to commit one way or the other first.

[Jingle]

It won't really be affected by scumhunting tho, so feel free to play as normal in the meantime.

Porkens will be due a prod in approximately 12 hours. Also, I just realized that day start was literally yesterday.

[Jingle]

I'm going to warn you that any plan that hinges on Porkens is a bad plan.

I have no motivation to read 132-146

Should I just replace out idk

She claimed a tracker result on Mastina. Which is only possible if scum messed with her result, because any town player messing with the result. And yeah, you can actually probably just start with jj's post 3624 and read forward from there. Everything worth talking about before that point is rehashed in those 4 points.

[Jingle]

because any town player messing with the result is nuts.

FTFM.

Also, Varsoon, the only thing my 'plan' (it's not actually a plan, FWIW, just a chain of logic) relies on from Porkens is a confirmation/denial that Nico's role functions as mastina described or not. If Porkens isn't willing to give a yes/no to that, they're not playing the game at all.

[Jingle]

Nico thinks that both me and jj are scum protecting mastina because persecution complex exacerbated by jj's deathtunnel and an inherently flawed interpretation of my posting today. It's been about 36 hours since the day started. Nico claimed that the fakeguilty was for reactions, and that me and jj failed.

[Jingle]

The 'failure' was us not considering mastina was scum, btw. Despite the fact that my plan differed from jj's in that it was designed to work around mastina being scum lying about the trigger for her gladiate.

[Jingle]

For the record, I find it hilariously unlikely that the doc succeeded in stopping a kill by targeting me. Revealing that said doc exists is still pro town.

[Jingle]

I’m not sure what you think I could possibly gain by fake claiming it, so...

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

[Jingle]

Or maybe I don’t like conversations that are likely to narrow down the pool of possible loud doctors and would prefer letting them do whatever the hell they feel like doing.

If you doubt the information I gave out, that’s on you. There is no alignment I could be that would have a reason to lie about a loud doctor visiting me. I don’t know why they chose what they chose and any speculation along those lines is anti town.

[Jingle]

Jailkeep only roleblocks.

Factually Incorrect.

Jailkeep prevents all actions taken by or targeting the target.

Mastina specifically wasn't Jailkept.

Also, pizza is delicious.

[Jingle]

Weird, Alien used to be standard JK.

[Jingle]

I thought the way Loud Doctors worked was that when you get visited you would know *who* visited you but not *what action was taken*

-rh

I was told specifically that I was visited by a doctor last night.

What benefit does town have to knowing JJH is deathproof? Or that there is a loud doctor that went and visited you? It only serves to illuminate to scum why their kill went tits up. Gives them mechanical info, if true.

The benefit to knowing there is a loud doctor is that we can setup spec around having a doctor without outing the doctor. I actually agree with you that JJ's deathproof claim was premature, but not because "rolefishing". If he is town and scum shot him last night, they now have no reason to shoot him again, meaning that portion of his role is now useless.

And any conversation about how a protective might or might not react to other claims is rolefishing. I'm not responding to questioning along those lines any more.

[Jingle]

I'm taking that as confirmation that what mastina says is what Porkens recieved. NR, please ask RC the following question by PM:

"Does my role action resolve as two separate actions, or is it one individual one? Specifically, if I was roleblocked between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result? If I was rolestopped between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result?"

[Jingle]

Role action should just be action.

[Jingle]

I endorse the NR gladiate. If she's town AND she gets the answer to the question I wanted asked that I expect her to, it's likely that both Porkens and Mastina are scum.

I also think today is the day that we should use Varsoon's ability if we're going to use it at all, possibly tomorrow, so would like to consider who we want to lynch in the case that the gladiate goes off.

[Jingle]

"Does my action resolve as two separate actions, or is it one individual one? Specifically, if I was roleblocked between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result? If I was rolestopped between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result?"

[Jingle]

Would vote Firebringer slot if I remembered the name of who holds it, but this works just as well.

Firebringer.

3804 has the current playerlist.

And, more importantly, how do you feel about lynching Vecna?

Nico, please ask RC my question.

"Does my action resolve as two separate actions, or is it one individual one? Specifically, if I was roleblocked between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result? If I was rolestopped between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result?"

Also, Nico, if mastina refuses to gladiate any target chosen for her by the majority, that majority will lynch her. It's kind of how leashing a role works.

[Jingle]

Hey, mastina? Why is jj town?

But mastina senpai how do you correctly sort firebringer?

-rh

He's a fire type.

But for serious, I need to go back and remember how to do that, so thanks for reminding me.

Btw Mastina, can I not convince you to just pull the trigger on one of your reads? Or on Porkens? Even though the motivation might not be completely pure, its to the towns detriment to not just keep going and clear stuff at a decent pace.

As long as the targets isnt something that is likely to get nightkilled soon, its a good target regardless.

Finally, you start making sense.

Unfortunately, mastina doesn't want to take the lynch into her hands, so we need to run someone up to L-Whatever to get a gladiate.

Shouldn’t we lynch nico I’m confused

If you think we should lynch her because she's scum, then vote for that eventuality.

If you think we should lynch her for being antitown, not in the slightest. Policy lynching doesn't work right now, please try again later.

Either way, we shouldn't be lynching rn, we should be gladiating.

We COULD leash Varsoon for a policy lynch if we need to see a flip though, which I think we should do today if at all possible. Currently, I'm thinking we use varsoon to test the deathproof claim, but to do so we need to reach a consensus on a gladiate like, now, so that we can actually have time to decide who to really lynch before using it.

[Jingle]

Nico, please ask RC my question.

"Does my action resolve as two separate actions, or is it one individual one? Specifically, if I was roleblocked between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result? If I was rolestopped between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result?"

[Jingle]

Either way, we shouldn't be lynching rn, we should be gladiating.

remind me why?

We have two 'conftown'. Kuroi and Chick. If you can give me a reasonable argument for why having two conftown is not better than them being dead, I'll agree that gladiating is dumb and we shouldn't do it.

More to the point, though, mastina isn't the one holding the thread hostage. Note how when we actually reach a lynch consensus, the game goes fast? When mastina gladiated Chick yesterday, it took about a day for 15 No Lynch votes to happen. That gladiate happened less than 48 hours before deadline, with 7 people on the wagon. We would have deadline no lynched without the gladiate. If we actually scumhunt outside of "mastina's role so OP, lets derp flashwagon it and complain and do absofuckinglutely nothing else" we wouldn't have had a game 'held hostage' by a player. We'd have had a game, in which instead of flipping our mislynches stay around and continue talking. It's not rocket science why that's good.

The people 'holding this game hostage' are the people who are refusing to scumhunt and instead focusing on policy lynching one slot.

Varsoon and his incessant complaining about how boring the game is and the OP-ness of said role, has not expressed a single read I can recall on a single other player.
Firebringer is TOWNREADING mastina, and still wants to lynch her because his head is so far up his hateboner's ass that he won't look at any of the other players.
I can't think of a single push you've made.

And you're not the only ones. This isn't the game being held hostage by mastina, this is 21 players sitting in a circle staring at her and being angry when nothing happens.

Do you know how you progress a game of mafia out of shit and stillness? A hint. It isn't fucking policy lynching. It's actually engaging with and sorting the players. And you can't even blame it on activity, because there's plenty of shit to be taking a stand on. Vecna claimed and retracted IC. JJ has been spamming the shit out of the thread. Nico's shit has been around to talk about, even if I personally don't think it's the blinking "I AM SCUM" sign others do. NSG is playing to lurkmeta.

1) The MEME Men
2) Northsidegal
3) Firebringer
4) Nicorobin
5)

Mastina

6) Gamma Emerald
7)

Chickadee

8) Skygazer
9) Varsoon
10)

KuroiXHF

11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14) Vecna
15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle
19) Nero Cain
20) Creature
21) jjh927
22) Aristophanes

I colored the people who are off the table. Notice how there's a list of 20 people, and 17 of them are still suspects? I sure as hell do.

[Jingle]

I'd like to see a jingle gladiate

Then convince people I'm scum.

[Jingle]

Then objectively, regardless of your alignment, that's a shitty reason to want me gladiated.

The people 'holding this game hostage' are the people who are refusing to scumhunt and instead focusing on policy lynching one slot.

It doesn't matter which slot you're focusing on. It matters that you're not scumhunting.

[Jingle]

Damn, did scum!nsg survive two fucking days?

Damn, did scum!nsg survive two fucking days?

?

Activity overview

also her predecessor seemed bad

[Jingle]

Hey Nico, didja ask that question yet?

[Jingle]

sauce pan

Do not microwave sauce pans.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Jjh

[Jingle]

The most blatant scumclaims require the most blatant votes.

[Jingle]

More to the point, though, mastina isn't the one holding the thread hostage. Note how when we actually reach a lynch consensus, the game goes fast? When mastina gladiated Chick yesterday, it took about a day for 15 No Lynch votes to happen. That gladiate happened less than 48 hours before deadline, with 7 people on the wagon. We would have deadline no lynched without the gladiate. If we actually scumhunt outside of "mastina's role so OP, lets derp flashwagon it and complain and do absofuckinglutely nothing else" we wouldn't have had a game 'held hostage' by a player. We'd have had a game, in which instead of flipping our mislynches stay around and continue talking. It's not rocket science why that's good.

The problem here is not "mastina isn't taking the entire game into her hands and hero shooting." The problem is that we have a bunch of people not doing anything. You think holding the thread hostage to make mastina gladiate earlier is going to fix that? You, who is hard townreading mastina but thinks her reasoning is wrong? What do we gain from making mastina gladiate without input from the votes makes people more likely to be readable? You think that fights thread apathy?

And, specifically, you think that NOW? After I called out that focusing on mastina instead of scumhunting to show who you want gladiated is EXACTLY what is wrong with this thread? So, now that there's a glimmer of hope that people will actually play the game instead of wallowing in apathy, you want to hold the thread hostage? Bullshit.

[Jingle]

I'm morecurious about the why, because this seems like a pretty decent ability for either faction, but scum abilities are usually far less visual than something like this!

There is literally 0 utility in his role from town. The correct play is to never ever use it.

There is crazy high scum utility in his role. Like: exactly what he's doing right now.