A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Vecna]

I AM THE GREAT CORNHOLIO.

I NEED TP FOR MY BUBGHOLE

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio.
Do you have T.P. for my bunghole? I would hate for my holio to get polio.

[Vecna]

I am the almighty CORNHOLIO. Is this Nicaragua? I will take this land for my bunghole! Long live the almighty bunghole!

[Vecna]

I am the Great Cornholio! I come from Lake Titicaca! M-heh heh, yeah, Titicaca! Titty-kaka!

[Vecna]

I am the great cornholio. I need....I need....TP? for my bunghole

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! You will name your baby Bungholio! Is he an albino? Holio Bungholio... will be albino... and a gringo...

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Are you threatening me!? My bungole will not wait

[Vecna]

I am the Great Cornholio! Would you like to see my portfolio? I have a portfolio in my bunghole, with my óleo!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio. Español? Es bunghole! Habla, blah blah blah blah blah, Español for my bunghole...

[Vecna]

I am Cornholio. Would you like a spatula? For your bunghole?

[Vecna]

You can take me, but you cannot take my bunghole! For I have no bunghole. I am the Great Cornholio!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! My bunghole it goes rakakaka rakakatokotoko uuaaa!!! And then sometimes my bunghole goes raawakakakabuaa bhhhuuuaua

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Hey! Would you like to seeeeee my bunghole?

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Where I come from, we have no Bunghole. I have no bunghole!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio. You must feed the almighty bunghole!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio. I need crappucino for my bunghole

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Do not underestimate the power of the Almighty Bunghole!

[Vecna]

I AM THE GREAT CORNHOLIO! The streets will flow with the blood of the non-believers...

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! (Whoa! Hm heh... that was cool) I need T.P. for my bunghole! Come out with your pants down!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Ahahahaha! TP! You must give me your TP!

[Vecna]

I am Cornholio! Are you threatening me? I need TP for my bunghole.

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Everyone has but one bunghole. It is nothing to be ashamed of

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! I need TP for my bunghole!

[Vecna]

I

A

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t

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e

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e

a

t

C

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n

h

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i

o

!

I

n

e

e

d

T

P

f

o

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m

y

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!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio. Do not make my bunghole angry.

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! You can take me, but you cannot take my bunghole.... For I have no bunghole....

[Vecna]

I am the great cornholio! Are you threatening me!? My bungole will not

wait

!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Are you threatening me!? My bungole will not

wait

!

[Vecna]

I am the great cornhokio! Are you threatening me!? My bungole will not

wait

!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Do you have T.P. for my bunghole? I would h

a

te for my bungholio to get polio.

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! The streets will flow with the bloo

d

of the non-believers...

[Vecna]

You can take me, but you will never take my bunghole, Hm heh.... For I am the Gre

a

t Cornholio Hm heh I have no bunghole, hm heh

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Ahahahaha! TP! You must give me

y

our TP!

[Vecna]

I am the greqt Cornholio! Ahahahaha! T

P

! You must give me you

r

TP!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio!

D

o not make my bunghole angry!... You have any holio?

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Where I come from there is no TP!, My people we have but

one

bunghole!

[Vecna]

I

am the great

C

ornholio! The principal! He will give me TP! I would hate for my bungholio to get polio....Where I come from, we have no bunghole.

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio!

D

o you have T.P. for my bunghole? I would hate for my bungholio to get polio.

[Vecna]

I am the greqt Cornholio!

T

he principal! He will give me TP! I would hate for my bungholio to get polio....

W

here I come from, we have n

o

bunghole.

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Are you threatening me!? My bungole will not

wait!

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio!

T

he principal! He will give me TP! I would hate for m

y

bungholio to get polio....Where I come from, we have no bunghole.

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! In this lobby, will there be T.P.? For my bunghole?

[Vecna]

I am the great Cornholio! Nicaragua....aqua for my bunghole.....arriba..

[Vecna]

I am the Great Cornholio! I'm a gringo!

[Vecna]

I am the Great Cornholio! Ahahahaha! TP! You must give me your TP!

[Vecna]

I am the Great Cornholio! Run as you may! You cannot escape...the Almighty Bunghole!

[Vecna]

Alright here goes. Im sort of waiting for someone to pop their head in, but explaining stuff wont hurt (or maybe it will, but itll all be alright). Also on mobile and not at home so this may go in pieces.

JJH was on the right track, but he was asking completely the wrong questions.

My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

The only reason jjh was on my case was because he thought my quotes had ran out. If you just wouldve asked if my pr would last past day1 as a followup, all that nonsense wouldve been prevented. Regardless, I got run up. It is what it is. I claimed IC as an easy way out to at least be able to defend myself today. I judged that if I suddenly started talking normally I definately wouldve been the lynch.

Needless to say I do not have a literal IC role. Its similair'ish but nowhere near as definitive.

My role has three parts:
-I can visit someone at night and harass them. It will be revealed to them that I am beavis, village idiot.
-If anyone visits my house at night, they will hear the music that I am listening too (can choose a song each night).
-If I survive day1 while fullfilling my posting restriction, one of those abilities gets upgraded. Im not revealing what it is, and if any town finds out, please keep it quiet - unless I ask you otherwise.

More later

[Vecna]

Question time, reads time later.

Titus, who is scum and why? Share some love and thoughts with the thread please. The same question goes for Randomidget, skygazer, MariaR hydra and so many others. Do something.

Mastina/Ginngie - can either or both of you please elaborate why it is ok with both of you that Mastina has this strong of a read on Ginngie while the latter pretty much had like 3 posts when the read was formulated? Why isnt ginngie somewhat suspicious about how easy it went, especially considering Ginngie is playing a whole different type of game here than she usually is, and has way lower activity levels. Some simple explenation that doesnt involve ogi? What in those little posts was enough to get that strong a read that allowed the read to be above towncleared Vax?

JJH: Why didnt you feel like continuing to ask more questions regarding how my PR worked? Why did you ask about the quotes running out, but didnt ask further after you figured out that that obviously was not what it was? Why did you use the example of a prior post restriction by RC and did you feel that was a proper reason to point at me and go "BULLSHIT!". How do you feel about my explenation? Still think you had a point, or are you realizing you made a booboo?

[Vecna]

Ignore the cross-post part I guess? How does it being optional make sense in light of your big post though? Doesnt invalidate any of the parts that you mentioned to try and get me lynched.

[Vecna]

Fuckin OPTIONAL post restrictions

That actually makes sense


We don't know what your ability is, NicoRobin, so it's pretty nonsensical rn

Reading is tech, hmu

I tried to read for it, but im also not getting any of this interaction. Some stuff went down during the night between the two of you I guess, but its completely unclear wtf is going on to any innocent bystander.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Nosferatu

This vote can stay here until Nosferatu explains to me why the vote is there to begin with.

[Vecna]

So this game was actually heavily flavour driven in its development and I... didn't write a no lynch flavor.

TFW the mod mod-confirms that your role was meant as a troll role and was never designed to actually have utility in the game.

Mastina/Ginngie - can either or both of you please elaborate why it is ok with both of you that Mastina has this strong of a read on Ginngie while the latter pretty much had like 3 posts when the read was formulated? Why isnt ginngie somewhat suspicious about how easy it went, especially considering Ginngie is playing a whole different type of game here than she usually is, and has way lower activity levels. What in those little posts was enough to get that strong a read that allowed the read to be above towncleared Vax?

Ginngie is town because her posts screamed town. Three posts may not be enough when Ginngie is playing normally, but with Ginngie playing the way she is this game, I'd have only needed one for the read.

So that also answers the second half. It is

specifically

because

this game is a whole different type of game than normal for her, that I was able to get the read as easily as I did. She has specific alignment indicators which are usually not triggered immediately; this game, she triggered them immediately.

Who is scum gin?

Chickadee, of course.

VOTE: Chickadee.

Can you be a bit more specific as to what it is in ginngie's play that screams town as u put it? What are the indicators? Because these type of statements can be made at any time about any person

[Vecna]

Ignore the cross-post part I guess? How does it being optional make sense in light of your big post though? Doesnt invalidate any of the parts that you mentioned to try and get me lynched.

Extremely restrictive post restrictions are bad because they disenfranchise players from the game.

Making it optional but dangling a reward in front of your head makes it far more reasonable for RC to have designed such a role.


The main focus of my push was that you had made up the post restriction, or at least the most restrictive elements of it, because it was too restrictive for RC to have forced upon a player.

Tnx babe, mild suspicions put to rest

[Vecna]

VOTE: Nosferatu

This vote can stay here until Nosferatu explains to me why the vote is there to begin with.

lol i guess its staying there cause fuck this on so many levels my dude

So youre saying that for some reason this is a worse game to be responding/playing in than the previous RC/Mathblade clusterfuck?

Not buying it. Also, wrong.

[Vecna]

Cool, cool. Pretty sure we caughts us a scum

[Vecna]

Get that bussing credit while its still hot scummies. Nos is gonna be todays lynch. When I get more time its tunneling-time

[Vecna]

solid reasoning bro

[Vecna]

this is Civ mafia all over again.

No worries. Im fine going for your target as well, but Nos is pretty likely scum here.

[Vecna]

I'd like both Titus' and Mastina's input on Nosferatu here. A comparison with lynch the wolves is what im looking for mostly since thats my only beacon of comparison.

[Vecna]

I like Titus for town here. I also really felt that last Beeboy post sounded very towny.

[Vecna]

this is Civ mafia all over again.

No worries. Im fine going for your target as well, but Nos is pretty likely scum here.

maybe, idk.

like if he's scum then we are saying

Okay nos you better not be scum because this is like, the most endearing interaction I've ever had with you and I think when we've played I usually just lazily (and incorrectly) scumread you but I want you to be town rn

i cant make any promises x

he's scum thats halfway claiming scum.

So vax and IC are scum?

VOTE: vax

I didn't really like how he was was all like "anyone that believes the dayvig is scum" but it took me to get him onto Vax.

id honestly rather not get desperado'd

conf town is not a good color on me

doesn't want to be despo'd b/c he's scum that knows he'll die.

Also, Nero, for comparison.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I bet you'll know what I mean. Awaiting some responses from Mastina and Titus before I go into my reasoning.

[Vecna]

100% the first line of your last two posts.

[Vecna]

That last Nosferatu line is also giving me pause. Like, my read is based purely on meta and him not delivering any town-vibey posts (which he is actually very good at while trying), but this game has not exactly been brimming with thrilling moments that illicit response either.

[Vecna]

Yeah it seems some prods and force replacements might do some good to this game now that were still in the somewhat early stages.

[Vecna]

<3 tnx babeh.

[Vecna]

Who shall we crusade against JJH?

[Vecna]

Tbh if were gonna use that mastina thing, might as well just point at someone and get it over with. At least then I can troll shit with night actions

[Vecna]

Is it weird that it sits uneasy with me that this Mastina role design is like scumrole heaven? Right untill that moment we flip her we have no way of knowing if it actually has that weird modifier that it cannot gladiate scum. And if she does ever flip scum, were all gonna be oh-so-suspicious of everyone that was gladiated before.

I mean, RC did -promise- us there would be no fake guilties from Ginngie.

[Vecna]

Clearly there was some shit that transpired during the night she wants to keep hidden, even after vigorously doing an oopsy and then pretending it didnt happen.

[Vecna]

We should ask mastina to gladiate Ginngie with the upfront promise we will lynch one of them. Just to see what happens.

[Vecna]

Why is it dangerous to fakeclaim loyal as scum though? Not saying im believing it is what happened, but im interested in what can really happen that is bad for scum.

[Vecna]

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

[Vecna]

Nero, which people you considering obv-town at this point?

[Vecna]

This game really seems centered around three topics eh. Music, visiting houses and weird double voting mechanics (so far we've had like 4 of them shown/claimed?)

[Vecna]

VOTE: Porkens

Actually starting to warm up to this

[Vecna]

and with the removal of the obv part?

[Vecna]

This game really seems centered around three topics eh. Music, visiting houses and weird double voting mechanics (so far we've had like 4 of them shown/claimed?)

What do you mean by the first 2

I mean that a lot of role flavour (or stuff being hinted at) revolves around those themes.

[Vecna]

I’m curious how many videos people have gotten from me

I got exactly one

[Vecna]

Alright here goes. Im sort of waiting for someone to pop their head in, but explaining stuff wont hurt (or maybe it will, but itll all be alright). Also on mobile and not at home so this may go in pieces.

JJH was on the right track, but he was asking completely the wrong questions.

My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

The only reason jjh was on my case was because he thought my quotes had ran out. If you just wouldve asked if my pr would last past day1 as a followup, all that nonsense wouldve been prevented. Regardless, I got run up. It is what it is. I claimed IC as an easy way out to at least be able to defend myself today. I judged that if I suddenly started talking normally I definately wouldve been the lynch.

Needless to say I do not have a literal IC role. Its similair'ish but nowhere near as definitive.

My role has three parts:
-I can visit someone at night and harass them. It will be revealed to them that I am beavis, village idiot.
-If anyone visits my house at night, they will hear the music that I am listening too (can choose a song each night).
-If I survive day1 while fullfilling my posting restriction, one of those abilities gets upgraded. Im not revealing what it is, and if any town finds out, please keep it quiet - unless I ask you otherwise.

More later

I sure hope it's worth it.

Well I'm p sure that Vecna will be the lynch today until unless he activates his IC. He was on earlier and I was disappointed that he didn't come in here.

I would like to hear some opinions on Ginngie.

idk, I'm a hot mess.

But if you guys are going to lynch me, you should at least test it and gladiate me. Then you can just call me stupid the rest of the game.

Is the gladiate an X-shot ability? If so, I wouldn't waste it on her.

this is Civ mafia all over again.

vote: Maid Cafe

Get that bussing credit while its still hot scummies. Nos is gonna be todays lynch. When I get more time its tunneling-time

Ok boys talk to me here. I like you both as town, particularly given Vecna not just outright attacking.

I still think we should lynch Porkens. Porkens attacking someone over taking care of their mental health is just ridiculous. Porkens is looking just to attack players to be doing something.

VOTE: Porkens

I'm not so sure being a dick is alignment-indicative. I could potentially go to Porkens, but... VOTE: Chikadee

what even is the point of this game
does it actually mean anything
all it will lead to is despair
there is no joy to be found in this game
i genuinely cant even be bothered to use my role

I forgot you were even in the game. You seem to be flying under the radar.

You've gone very surfacey bullshit rather than actual logic here

I don't like this response to Nero's vote. It give me the err of what scum would do.

So like, dont you have something to share? A little message you received from the mod during the night?

[Vecna]

But seriously, all I know was that you visited me. Was there supposed to be a specific message?

at minimum it should confirm that my flavour is beavis.

[Vecna]

and with the removal of the obv part?

2) Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
4) Nicorobin
5) Mastina(1)
6) Gamma Emerald
7) Chickadee
8) Skygazer*
10) KuroiXHF(1)
11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14) Vecna
15) Lady Angel
22) randomidget

I think these are kinda my town leans.

*her being active elsewhere on the site is really starting to bother me though

(1) I think lurk Mastina is scum Mastina. Not really sure her role really fits into things though. Kuroi just feels there. He feels so robotic. He just has no charisma? Obv if Mastina or Kuroi flip scum the other is too.

Why are you asking about my town reads?

Just trying to get a feel on your allignment any way i can. Nearly everyone just easily townreading you is both worrysome and dangerous.

regardless, good feelings.

why rm and porkens

[Vecna]

Also, is anyone else really getting the feeling that invisibility is a creature alt?

[Vecna]

{GE, Sky, Porkens, Ginngie, Nero Cain, jjh, randomidget}
{Rylai and Lina, Maid Cafe, Nicorobin, Mastina, Chickadee, Titus, KuroiXHF, Invisibility, Whemestar, Vecna}
{Nosferatu, Lady Angel}



More questions:
What happened with that "a guilty has been declared" thing?
What happened with the Kuroi wagon? (Why did it start, why has it seemed to disappear?)
Why is 1825 so great?

explain skygazer and randomidget. there reads are still just copied right? even nero has no real reason to tr these slots.

[Vecna]

{Rylai and Lina, Nicorobin, Chickadee, Titus, Invisibility, Whemestar, Vecna}
{Nosferatu, Lady Angel}

I dunno if I can see 5-6 scum here.

Like, I think LA is town. I think Chick is town.

Titus is prob scum.
Nos I could see.
R&L I could see.
Nico I guess I could kind of see if we are saying that she tries to lynch town Mastina. IDK how to read her.
Wheme is someone else that I can't really read. I guess he could be scum bur I'm not really scum reading him.

Invis I was just kinda going with the flow and someone was claiming that this was just normal invis.

Haven't really seen that angry try harding Vecna town but I'm not reall sold its scum either.


Titus, NoS, R&L, Nico and Wheme? ehhhhhhhhh....

are you actually townreading firebringer here though? that's the interesting part. His entrance felt extremely extremely scummy to me, and im not going to shake that feeling easily. His recent posts have felt a lot more solve.

I dont think ive ever seen an interested firebringer thats not just flinging shit for giggles and its throwing me off. maybe.

[Vecna]

convince me of titus scum. i am open minded to scumreads right now. really in the market for some tbh.

Im fairly sure titus is town, and i caught her as scum the last three games with her. still won't hurt to see more content there to be sure but im heavily vetoing a lynch there (for whatever much that matters).

[Vecna]

wait my role gives guns not allows me to shoot...

u troll rc.

I will give a gun to whoever promises to shoot gamma if he isn't lynched.

I’ll shoot gamma

feels like a bad shot to me

[Vecna]

@Nero, I have been the reason for Porkens wagon being a thing. Hardly going with the flow to corral others.

As for your "lurking" comment, technically true due to real life and hating d1. I need content from others to analyze. If that's the basis for your scumread more so than going with the flow; I'll have to accept it for now.

Yet, why do you think I would pull out more awesome things while consistently dealing with lurkers and effectively a d1 redo?

this is a town titus post.......im gonna white knight the slot and call all votes following this post bad

[Vecna]

Just in case you missed it, Firebringer, Titus was absolutely in no way the cause of the porkens wagon yesterday

exactly. and thus titus is not scum.

[Vecna]

i like ur pirate hat nsg. can i have one?

explain why you weren't interested in the porkens wagon while it really felt like you wanted a wagon to be a thing?

isnt that the thing youd be interested in upon town entry?

(yes im sort of implying what you think im implying with this post)

[Vecna]

You're gonna have to expand

titus is the counterwagon. porkens is the red flip.

lynch porkens, break the game open.

[Vecna]

Just in case you missed it, Firebringer, Titus was absolutely in no way the cause of the porkens wagon yesterday

exactly. and thus titus is not scum.

although you could also flip this and titus knowing something about the porkens flip. but that's not how it feels.

[Vecna]

You're gonna have to expand

anyways, I'm just tunneling in on a cheap meta read. I feel pretty good about a green titus and a red porkens though.

check the transformers game. check porkens iso. They match so extremely well in playstyle.

some meta comparison points:
-short aggressive posts only.
- no real thought patterns that I can blend with well
- postquotes with literally one word with em "scum"

she loves that too scummy to be scum playstyle, and she thrives on it.

[Vecna]

@Nero, I have been the reason for Porkens wagon being a thing. Hardly going with the flow to corral others.

As for your "lurking" comment, technically true due to real life and hating d1. I need content from others to analyze. If that's the basis for your scumread more so than going with the flow; I'll have to accept it for now.

Yet, why do you think I would pull out more awesome things while consistently dealing with lurkers and effectively a d1 redo?

It is d2 now though, so time to step it up.

[Vecna]

I think lurk Mastina is scum Mastina.

I have more towngames lurking than I do towngames active; I have more scumgames active than I do scumgames lurking. That doesn't make lurking a towntell, by any means, but it has a damn good reason behind it. I pride myself in good scumplay, and lurking isn't good scumplay. The proof is in my wiki; games which would otherwise be marked as 5-star scumgames, I dock myself on points for, because, "Unfortunately, I wasn't active".

Lurking is easy. Lurking is not in any way proof of skill. Lurking is not something I would intentionally do. But like I said, lurking's also not a towntell. The reason why, is because there are plenty of lurking scumgames in spite of my desire to not lurk, and plenty of active towngames in spite of my tendency to get in lulls. That's because lurking isn't an alignment-tell, but a mindset-tell. When I am lurking, it is because I am not in a good mindset.

I have been sick for over a fucking month. Still am. I'm feeling

better

today, but I am still undeniably sick, as shown by my cough. YOU try being sick for a whole month and see how it affects your will to post in games. I will contribute when I can, as much as I can. The amount I contribute will meet the minimum standard for what's acceptable, albeit done mostly in intermittent bursts where there's a large period of inactivity followed by a short period of hyper-activity. That's as much as I can promise, because that's the extent of my capabilities right now.

If I could do more than that, then you'd see me actually doing more than that, but you may note that this is my only game right now. (In fact, I was even planning on using an alt in the near-future, but have put that off because I'm in no shape to use it.)

Also, where on earth did Mastina go?

The same place I have been going: away from mafiascum, to rest and recover. This is a sitewide thing, as you'll note that most of my visits to the site have coincided with posts here, and there's a distinct lack of visits to the site where I was posting elsewhere yet not here. I make it a point to try and keep you informed.

I usually am phoneposting nowadays, but when I am phoneposting I can't multiquote. Since I need to multiquote in order to properly provide content for this game, that means I usually can only do so at work, so most of my posts are "hey I'm at work, can't post now but here's where I can post". (And then, on the phone, I do things I CAN do on the phone--which saves me time. If I do the things I can do on the phone, then I don't have to waste my time doing those things on the desktop, and can instead do the things I can only do on my desktop. Makes sense, yes?)

y not replace out so u can like rest and not play?

Because replacing out is against my beliefs. In all of my time as a player, since returning from my first hiatus, I have asked to be replaced a grand total of once, maybe twice, and for reasons unrelated to activity--due to a level of toxicity so extreme I simply couldn't stand it and outright told the mod that I was leaving the game.

Which says something, since my definition of toxicity is much different than most peoples' and I tolerate a ton I frankly shouldn't. But aside from those instances, I've never asked to be replaced. I have, on rare occasions, failed to meet activity standards and been force-replaced for "flaking", once or twice. I have, on a few occasions, been compromised by having information I wasn't meant to have and thus necessitated a force-replace.

But I've never asked for a replacement, and I never will. I swore an oath to that effect, that I would never again be replaced. It's stubbornness, it's prideful, buthey, pride's my greatest sin, so I'll own up to it. I'll never willingly replace out, not for something silly as health.

Of course. I also know that just prod-dodging through the game is a terrible thing to do; I've done that before and directly ruined a game as a result (if not more than one), and while I never swore an OFFICIAL oath to that effect (because I knew it was a promise I might not be able to keep, especially given it could contradict the existing oath), I made an unofficial one where I said that I'd never just eternally prod-dodge, and would provide content regardless of how bad things got.

So why would I need replacement if I am giving sufficient levels of content? If you think I am not, like I said. Call me out on it, and engage me. I work really, really well with direct, one-on-one engagements, where I can hash things out and explain things. But if I am giving sufficient levels of content, then there's no problem to be had.

I'm probably gonna replace out
I literally just have no breathing room with studying

Please don't. <3

You can do the same thing I do--in fact, you can do it even better than I can; I actually take some cues from

you

with my posting habits these days. (The student has, quite literally, become the master, in that field!) Just give what you can, when you can, and if it's not good enough, well, someone will find a way to fix it.

First question: is mastina town?
Next questions: I have {GE, Sky, Porkens, Ginngie, Nero Cain, jjh, randomidget} as town.

I am obviously biased in knowing the answer to the first question, but I can still help you find the answer to it all the same, objectively, via providing input on the second:
Literally every name you mentioned as town, is in my townbloc. (So's your slot, by the way.)
From that, you can judge as you'd like.

Nero is poking too many things with a stick.

While that is a good way to ensure that none of those things get the amount of poking they deserve, the strategy has merit and is nothing out of the normal.

god damn it, i am town. i demand a re roll.

This is what scum would post

Yes indeed, and if I move my vote from Chickadee it'll be onto Firebringer.

Im gonna keep asking this untill someone gives a satisfying answer.

WHY are RM, Sky and porkens town?

people keep throwing them reads out there. I could see rm and sky, still wanna see reasoning. porkens is scum

[Vecna]

Why on earth are people saying Vecna scum? Vecna is obvtown.

How

You seemed to think he was town during the fake post restriction

I did. I thought he was town yesterday. I was the first to bring it up actually, and it was my post bringing it up that prompted all the Vecna talk yesterday.

I don't think the post restriction was fake. I believe what Vecna claimed beginning D2. I don't care to push him on it. It's outlandish enough that I would put it in the "you cant make this shit up" category. And I like the way he came forward about knowing someone visited him in the night, and can confirm his flavor. I mean the flavor was obvious, but I like how all of it unfolded regardless. I also really like his contributions now that he's been able to talk.

So talk to me a bit about your view of Vecna.

remember that game where you were one of three survivors? you oughta know fakeclaiming elaborate roles is my specialty as scum wheb i care about a game.

[Vecna]

wheme is the one i am giving a gun to btw.

yeah very smart since his pool of scumreads contains three of your townreads

giving guns to people that admit not even having read most of the game.....what a time to be alive

[Vecna]

even nero has no real reason to tr these slots

?????

Don't be coasting on a decent opening, NSG.

at first i was kind of annoyed seeing this post but thinking about it further i actually really appreciate someone prodding me to play more like this - i think it'll end up with me putting more effort in, playing better and just overall being more satisfied with myself.

so, thanks

At first, I was rereading this and I'm still a little

I just thought it was odd that our conversation ends abruptly at 2247. I figured that you might be still reading though...

Just in case you missed it, Firebringer, Titus was absolutely in no way the cause of the porkens wagon yesterday

exactly. and thus titus is not scum.

Titus is town b/c she lied about her contributions to the game?

@Nero, I have been the reason for Porkens wagon being a thing. Hardly going with the flow to corral others.

As for your "lurking" comment, technically true due to real life and hating d1. I need content from others to analyze. If that's the basis for your scumread more so than going with the flow; I'll have to accept it for now.

Yet, why do you think I would pull out more awesome things while consistently dealing with lurkers and effectively a d1 redo?

It is d2 now though, so time to step it up.

After talking up town Titus what made you come back two hours later and tell her to post more? Also you think she's town so why do you care if she contributes?

still needed to some of these.

1: so you did give reasons for townreading randomidget and skygazer? I dont remember it, but maybe im wrong and youre the only one. it doesn't bother you at least five people copied those reads while those slots shoukd be very much unreadable to the large large majority?

2: I think titus is town for general playstyle and type of reasoning. her being completely clueless about stuff going on but still trying to take credit for something is definately not scummy for her id say.

3: I was reading back over some of those pages, and i do want her to contribute. Im fairly sure she is town, but having more content to judge it on should be better right? Besides, since im like the only one towwneading her, why wouldn't I want her to do stuff so people can stop whining about the lurking thing.

[Vecna]

in all my time playing here I've only heard the skaters gambit story from caigh2t scum. not like there was any use actually procured from it or usefull followup

[Vecna]

anyways I have no desire to fight about these things. gunshots on gamma are pretty bad while were scumreading a bunch of people and not actually lynching or confirming stuff with the mastina thing.

[Vecna]

a vote is a vote I guess. mine is staying on porkens and im pretty ok with my reads for the time being. Not really being swayed by any of the arguments against it so far.

[Vecna]

We

SHOULD

be lynching. Like sure, we can use Mastinas role a few times but I don't want to go into day whatever with the only flipped slots being scum kills.

yeah i have some strong thoughts on this but imma save them for now.

[Vecna]

I fail to see how someone can townread Vecna day1

Also I thought it was obvious the fire post and my quote to fire was a joke

Who said they were townreading my day1?

[Vecna]

Im really hating on this mastina ability by now. So freaking annoying that noone really has to take any ownership of any of their votes.

[Vecna]

There is nothing to analyze there, so that's a rather pointless exercise.

Also as a sidenote: A townrole that is basically a cop, that cannot be roleblocked.....would be really really op if we have any type of saving role that can keep Mastina alive. Its itching me the wrong way

[Vecna]

I miss people that talk and produce pages of stuff (drivel) to read

[Vecna]

I mean, your reasoning was ok I guess, it just missed some vital parts of information that I could not correct at the time.

Regardless, its the same as it ever was. Everyone has their own reads, and really noone is trying hard to convince anyone, and hardly anyone is willing to be convinced.

[Vecna]

Why is randomidget town?

[Vecna]

My post restriction day1 was optional.

then why did you decide to use it?

The very same post you so specifically quoted from answers that question.

[Vecna]

i dont think gamestate indicates chicka scum because no actually viable counterwagons have popped up in response today

which in general would indicate scum are fine with this game state

Chicka was the counterwagon that popped up in response to the Porkens wagon. Porkens is scum, and was at like 4-5 votes really really quickly, and then the votes vanished really quickly as well.

One could see the classic "I have to bus, oh no, I no longer have to bus

[Vecna]

Skygazer is now definitely town in my book.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Mastina

Use that ability of yours on Porkens

[Vecna]

Why u dont allow me my boredom vote?

[Vecna]

HUH?

[Vecna]

ALSO:

{Rylai and Lina, Nicorobin, Chickadee, Titus, Invisibility, Whemestar, Vecna}
{Nosferatu, Lady Angel}

I dunno if I can see 5-6 scum here.

Like, I think LA is town. I think Chick is town.

Titus is prob scum.
Nos I could see.
R&L I could see.
Nico I guess I could kind of see if we are saying that she tries to lynch town Mastina. IDK how to read her.
Wheme is someone else that I can't really read. I guess he could be scum bur I'm not really scum reading him.

Invis I was just kinda going with the flow and someone was claiming that this was just normal invis.

Haven't really seen that angry try harding Vecna town but I'm not reall sold its scum either.


Titus, NoS, R&L, Nico and Wheme? ehhhhhhhhh....

are you actually townreading firebringer here though? that's the interesting part. His entrance felt extremely extremely scummy to me, and im not going to shake that feeling easily. His recent posts have felt a lot more solve.

I dont think ive ever seen an interested firebringer thats not just flinging shit for giggles and its throwing me off. maybe.

Is it just me, or did the Firebringer trolling increase by an unprecedented amount after this statement?

[Vecna]

I think ive completely lost my ability to read Gamma Emerald. Either that, or he just completely stopped rolling scum altogether in any game that im in.

[Vecna]

Town, with little suspicion

14) Vecna
10) KuroiXHF*
21) jjh927

Most likely town, but has (or -probably- has) the skillset to fake it

19) Nero Cain
9) Titus
7) Chickadee
2) Northsidegal Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
11) Invisibility
8) Skygazer
4) Nicorobin

Null, activity reasons, please do stuff

13) Whemestar
15) Lady Angel
18) Ginngie
20) Nosferatu
22) randomidget
5) Mastina

Null, because I do not think I can read these people until I get a clue how to again

6) Gamma Emerald
1) The MEME Men Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)

Scumreads:

12) Porkens
3) Firebringer Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)

*(solved by mastina flip)

[Vecna]

Is it just me, or did the Firebringer trolling increase by an unprecedented amount after this statement?

dude every game you have called me scum you were scum.
do you want to go down this route and i bring in the last four games u did this?

Such great defense bro, truly scary.

[Vecna]

Especially after calling me hard-town before. Oof. It resonates.

[Vecna]

And lol at all the people coming to Mastina's defence. Like there is any world where we actually ever lynch her before she uses that ability of her.

she just needs some motivation to pull that trigger and get it done.

[Vecna]

Damnit, and here I went and told myself to not be a snarky asshat this game. Failed again.

[Vecna]

We're not lynching her at all because there's no way for the ability to be scum.

Loyal is not a modifier that any sane scum player will ever claim. Barring like, a rolecop guilty (or any other form of guilty I guess but this is mechanical) I'm not lynching there

The loyal part is also unconfirmed and potentially made up

[Vecna]

VOTE: Randomidget

[Vecna]

Especially after calling me hard-town before. Oof. It resonates.

Is it just me, or did the Firebringer trolling increase by an unprecedented amount after this statement?

dude every game you have called me scum you were scum.
do you want to go down this route and i bring in the last four games u did this?

Such great defense bro, truly scary.

So are you saying this is false?

Like I am truly wondering where ur confidence in ur read of me comes from because ur number one scum tell for me is your bs reads on me.

Confidence as far as confidence can go in this stage of a game like this. You had the scummy predecessor and the entrance that I found extremely scummy on top of that. You can call my read bullshit all you want, im obv-town here, so do with it what u will. Do some other stuff than attacking me over it if youre town, because youre sure as shit not gonna change my mind this way.

[Vecna]

I really dont feel like doing this, but since it seems itll be a nagging party untill I do go into it....

god damn it, i am town.

i demand a re roll.

Whatever

u just played a game with me where u called me scum all game and were wrong.

Not trying to argue anything, just "you were always wrong on me in the past"

So i am tunneling u this whole game regardless of ur alignment.

and i am shooting u tonight if u don't get lynched

Congrats on ur shit tunneling.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This post even sounds like a scum v scum thing that two teammates would do (even though I have no read on GE).

Is it just me, or did the Firebringer trolling increase by an unprecedented amount after this statement?

dude every game you have called me scum you were scum.
do you want to go down this route and i bring in the last four games u did this?

Here again. Instead of thinking about whether theres valid reasons, you start referring to past games and shit. What type of logic is this?

In past games, you hardly ever seem to give a crap what people think of you. Here it jumps straight to weird defenses where instead of attacking the person, you argue based on their past habits, like it would mean they can never scumread you ever, because theyve done it in the past and either been wrong or scum while doing so.

Now, Ill grant you its not the strongest of reasoning. But I find you off. Its just that feeling. MariaR was playing to her scum meta as well. I could be wrong. I do have some doubts about the read. Theres no vote there, so im not even sure what it is youre getting so worked up about.

[Vecna]

Am I getting pocketed by Chickadee? Her very first post in the game gave me very bad tingles, but everything after that has made me feel she's her usual quirky town-self. She is quite good at fooling people and spinning pretty posts as scum, way better masquerading stuff than what is being showcased here. Maybe she's having an off-day, but I dont think a scum Chickadee would be under this much easy scrutiny.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Porkens

[Vecna]

Also, Mastina, pretty please - keep real life stuff in these games to a minimum.

If you have time to write long pretty blog-type posts detailing your personal life, spent that little time on actually giving us thoughts on the game.

Were playing the game here. Dont force us to read this blog-style stuff about your life. I find it scum behavior. I'm not interested in people their personal story, we dont need detailed elaborate reasoning why youre not playing. We need you to play.

[Vecna]

Anyways, if Mastina fails to duel scum here we should probably lynch her for the two townclears and the added certainty

[Vecna]

Im bored. Entertain me. Please?

[Vecna]

Not trying to argue anything, just "you were always wrong on me in the past"

he finished that game with me less than 24 hours from his vote from me, where he tunneled me.

I think me calling that out isn't unreasonable.

That at least gives plausible reason why you'd respond that way I guess

[Vecna]

the more i think of it, the more i think vecna is prolly town, even though all those reasons just sound like horseshit in my head.

idk, gonna trust my gut on this i guess.

Actually, im gonna do the same, and make a bit of a turn. Most of this stuff I mentioned wasnt so one-dimensional to be scum-sided, everytime, and now that I think about it there was this one Beeboy post that completely redeemed the slot in my eyes.

Ill keep you in the back of my mind, mild suspicion will remain, but my scumread is slowly lessening.

Nice talk. Or not. Who cares.

[Vecna]

Votecount.

Lies.

If I'm gonna do shit people need to react to my shit so I can have more shit to do

I work the same way btw. Reason I call for engagement. People engage me, I talk; they don't, I tend to not.

but it's assuming that Mastina was even considered to be a kill last night.

Given that everyone was loudly broadcasting.
"Protectives, be on mastina last night".
Yeah, uh.
No shit I didn't die last night?

You'd frankly had more reason to be concerned if I DID die last night.

Use that ability of yours on Porkens

I would prefer to use my ability to get a guilty on scum rather than an innocent on town. You want Porkens clear, sure, okay, I'll clear Porkens, but not unless he's the lead wagon near deadline. (With deadline frozen, that's "not any time soon".) Or at L-1 with intent to hammer, but good luck getting that kind of support given there's enough people who have the experience to know he's town, so.

You're a claimed spot with a day ability, and it's kind of holding the game hostage.

A fine narrative, except given my stated intention on how I'll use it (only gladiating the lead lynch, near deadline or at L-1 with intent to hammer and consent) along with people even toying with the idea of "fuck that ability, let's just lynch without it", quite self-evidently not the case.

Skygazer vs. NSG is lurker vs lurker goodness. Lets see who can lurk the best.

It's also town vs. town goodness.

Great, more reads solely based on "Knowing how to read person x"?

Explain, why is porkens town. No more work-arounds. Give me a straight answer.

Also, tell me how the play is different from the transformers game. The play is a complete copy. Porkens as town plays different. We both had enough games together with a town porkens to know this, so im really wondering about your reasoning here.

Spill those beans. And stop dodging my questions with vague answers, and then come back into the thread and complaining noone interacts with you, because its you thats avoiding answering anything except with vague talk-arounds. Youre talking like a lobbyist.

[Vecna]

kuroi, i have missed u. how you been?

Not bad. Yourself?

why do u post?

Stop harassing me.

This is a game that you voluntarily joined. There is a level of consent to conversation. You can wave it by /outting but since you didn't do it, I think you're just trying to flail.

Excuse me, but why are you defending Firebringer?

Who said I was? This isn't about FireBringer. It's about you.

Town, with little suspicion

14) Vecna
10) KuroiXHF*
21) jjh927

Most likely town, but has (or -probably- has) the skillset to fake it

19) Nero Cain
9) Titus
7) Chickadee
2) Northsidegal Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
11) Invisibility
8) Skygazer
4) Nicorobin

Null, activity reasons, please do stuff

13) Whemestar
15) Lady Angel
18) Ginngie
20) Nosferatu
22) randomidget
5) Mastina

Null, because I do not think I can read these people until I get a clue how to again

6) Gamma Emerald
1) The MEME Men Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)

Scumreads:

12) Porkens
3) Firebringer Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)

*(solved by mastina flip)

Why is jjh town?

i havent played scum in 8 months.
thats nuts

There's a first for everything.

Jingle replaces Ginngie.
Varsoon replaces Titus.

Still seeking replacements for randomidget & Nosferatu.

I'm having a hard time keeping track of replacements.

Also,
VOTE: Porkens

JJH is my townread because of the way how he led the wagon on me day1, but did have proper responses and reasoning when he was confronted on day2 with the stuff he neglected to think about. Also, I like his poking at stuff and the way he formulates opinions and stops people from voting places (like the gifs when we were running up mastina). Might not agree with him everywhere, but I do think it comes from town nearly every time.

[Vecna]

how about you actually read d1 instead of just my iso if youre gonna cherrypick some nonsense to suit whatever aganda youre pusbing here jingle?

first of all, i was at risk of dying, and was at like l2 or whatever. I wouldve been the lynch for certain if i hadnt done what i did. anyone that has ever played mafia would know how that situation wouldve played out if i continue doing what i did.

And as ive stated before, I indeed did not feel like doing readslist and going through a shitton of effort to rainbow code them when the entire game was dead and on lazymode, and like two people had provided reads. you can throw any fancy terminology at it to frame it anyway you like, but its bullcrap and only going to grab the attention of people like invisibility.

[Vecna]

how about you actually read d1 instead of just my iso if youre gonna cherrypick some nonsense to suit whatever aganda youre pusbing here jingle?

first of all, i was at risk of dying, and was at like l2 or whatever. I wouldve been the lynch for certain if i hadnt done what i did. anyone that has ever played mafia would know how that situation wouldve played out if i continue doing what i did.

And as ive stated before, I indeed did not feel like doing readslist and going through a shitton of effort to rainbow code them when the entire game was dead and on lazymode, and like two people had provided reads. you can throw any fancy terminology at it to frame it anyway you like, but its bullcrap and only going to grab the attention of people like invisibility.

Yes. I'm going to drop every avenue of discussion until I've read everything.

First of all, no Vecna WASN'T at risk of dying, and to say otherwise is incredibly bleh. You know who got wagoned yesterday? Kuroi. You know who is now conftown? Kuroi.

Vecna was at risk of dying in precisely one situation: mastina's gladiate failed against him. That would happen because A: mastina was scum fakeclaiming for some reason (One for one trades benefit town) or B: Vecna was scum. To claim he didn't think he was going to be gladiated, he also would have to have been fully unaware of something that happened on like page 2. Which... Bullshit.

It was too much effort to give a readslist is A. Bullshit and B. Not the reasoning Vecna gave for not providing a readslist.

Vecna claimed he didn't because he was worried that continuing to post in the manner he had been posting would somehow suddenly become breaking his PR. Which is not how rules work. Either posting colors to convey messages was breaking the restriction or it wasn't.

If Vecna claimed he wasn't following along well enough to have reads, I would've raised an eyebrow, but would have accepted it. But he didn't. He claimed that he felt he would break his PR.

Additionally:

IC claim and retraction goes unanswered.
Not having a town D2 goes unanswered.
Attempting to lynch a player on meta while not acknowledging the assertion he has a history of misreading that player goes unanswered.
Incredibly bad approach to uber-role goes unanswered.

Yup. My case is cherrypicking things. I'm totally ignoring the context of you being wagoned when I say that you showing up to defend yourself (and fakeclaim D2 IC) but not showing up to provide reads is scummy. I'm sure you have a nice bridge to sell me too.

If youre gonna claim stuff, at least read them posts youre referring to properly. I stated straight away in that post it was bullshit to ask me to push through reads lists while noone is doing readslists and I have a post restriction.

And if you cannot see that when its D1, Mastina hasnt been sighted in forever, noone has seen the gladiate in play yet, and you suddenly get ran up to near lynch in extremely rapid fashion, that someone might think he's about to be quickhammered, youre not even trying to read into a situation. Youre just trying to reinforce an idea that you formed.

Its cool youre trying to be all hipster and the like and take on the person being townread by everyone (except maybe 1-2 people), but they generally have good reason for it. Being, they were there, and they know what actually transpired. Being an iso-warrior can be helpfull at times, here its giving you the completely wrong context and youre just trying to brute-force everything to fit your theory.

Whether its scummy or just good-natured ignorance remains to be seen, but just drop it. Itll get you nowhere, and it has given you the wrong conclusion.

And yes, Ill continue to state that when your role PM stated "youre allowed one line of text" and you ask the gm to allow you more lines "for the purpose of fun" that abusing those extra lines allowed to code messages with colouring somewhat goes against the spirit of the game. Whether you agree with it or not, is completely besides the point. But feel free to continue your crusade I guess.

[Vecna]

im willing to sheep jingle on this for the sake of consolidation and honestly its a decent case

VOTE: Vecna

jingle probs town?

Explain why it is a decent case and you didnt come to this conclusion yourself before? All the information was easily there.

If you actually felt any of it was scummy, why didnt you state any hesitations before?

[Vecna]

As for your additional points:

IC claim and retraction goes unanswered.

Im pretty sure I answered this in my first post. In detail. With my reasoning. Dont pretend I did not. My flavor and role parts are all confirmable, and have been for part of it.

Not having a town D2 goes unanswered.

I dont know what this means.

Attempting to lynch a player on meta while not acknowledging the assertion he has a history of misreading that player goes unanswered.

The only person im trying to lynch on Meta is Porkens. Ive dropped my shit against FB (for now) and the "we might have to lynch Mastina" has nothing to do with meta, but everything to do with the fact she's not participating, but spending a bunch of (apparently phone-time) posting extremely long posts detailing her private life. This is not the main reason though. Ill detail this in another post.

Incredibly bad approach to uber-role goes unanswered.

Im also not sure what this means. You have no clue about my role, and im not gonna give you more information regardless.

[Vecna]

As for everyone jumping on the "we shouldnt do scums work for scum" regarding Mastina.

Youre only looking at it only from the positive gain we can get from it.

If she is in fact scum here without the loyal modifier, and we keep trusting her and lynching her....when is it going to stop? Do we keep townclearing people? For how long? Until day 3? Until day 4? Until day5?

The upside is there. Its significant. But youre ignoring the potential downside. If she is scum, and we find out only on day4 or later, we loose. There is no scenario I can see there where we simply come back from it. Itll be chaos, and we'll be questioning every single person she did duel and that was "towncleared". We will be on day 5 with no information gain from lynches, no wagons, no voting behaviour, no connections to analyze, we will have game participation and maybe some PR stuff if were lucky (although all these PR's floating around makes me think its unlikely were going to get much gain from it in the sense of catching scum).

So you guys tell me. What has Mastina done to give her a townread? Stop judging whether to let her live by the usefulness of her ability, because the downside is WAY MORE SEVERE. This is a choice that needs to be based on play. Giving her an ultimatum to duel scum or get lynched for the two townclears seems completely fine with me in this situation. If only to hold her accountable for her actions, because from where im standing she's given a lot of reads without any justification whatsoever, and is hiding 100% behind whatever the rest apparently decides.

[Vecna]

So yes, my strong preference is, we run up some dodgy person that wont be missed if scum kill them later on as a townclear, have Mastina gladiate them (or finally form a spine and give her own input/preference maybe, but whatever this also works), and either get a scum caught or lynch Mastina and proceed with two townclears if she flips town that both really wont be missed if scum is forced to kill them.

[Vecna]

Anyways, im happy the game is finally coming alive. Lets keep it that way.

Jingle, im probably sounding very defensive to you right now, but im giving you the open invitation to just have a dialogue with me. You'll come to see that your case (while probably coming from a right place) is just reaching some unfortunate wrong conclusions, due to shit that happened and must probably look dodgy to someone that just replaced in.

[Vecna]

So yes, my strong preference is, we run up some dodgy person that wont be missed if scum kill them later on as a townclear, have Mastina gladiate them (or finally form a spine and give her own input/preference maybe, but whatever this also works), and either get a scum caught or lynch Mastina and proceed with two townclears if she flips town that both really wont be missed if scum is forced to kill them.

No.

First of all: Already addressed to some Extent

Second of all: Let us consider the three avenues of balance.

1: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets ridiculous power to compensate. In this case, this would probably be something along the lines of a scumvig, an extra member, 2 godfathers, etc.
2: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets a direct counter to said power. In this case, there's a bunch of options I've considered. Hidden day rb, day lawyer, day tailor, full strongman etc.
3: Town gets ridiculous power, so is disincentived from using it. In this case possibly something like a macho modifier on mastina, a lack of town protectives, or a cult.

Okay, so here it becomes obvious that it is in fact possible to balance mastina's role.

Third of all: Balance fail. We cannot discount it because it does happen, even to the best of mods. It is even more likely here than in normal circumstances because this is A. a UPick which are annoyingly hard to balance at the best of times because of their very nature. B. a role madness large, meaning lots of moving parts to design and fit together, and C. RC had limited time to come up with the setup. As evidenced by Page 1.

Fourth of all: The Fakeclaim. Unlikely, because scum tend to avoid fakeclaiming into expiration dates. Additionally unlikely because mastina doesn't like fakeclaiming. Additionally Additionally unlikely because even if mastina did decide to fakeclaim, she would do so in a game that wasn't likely to have a bunch of moving parts she couldn't control to catch her. + part of her claim is confirmable.

Fifth of all: The Scum Realclaim. More likely than 4, but if so mastina has played this claim in the most protown manner someone possibly can.

Now, we put it all together.

It is possible the game is balanced and mastina's role exists. It is further possible that town's chances of winning rely heavily on said role. Therefore we run a risk/benefits analysis.

Scenarios:

Game is unbalanced: Best course of action: who gives a shit.
Mastina is central to our chances: Best course of action: milk her role for all that it can give us.
Scum counter to town mastina: Best course of action: play around possible counters.
Mastina is scum realclaiming: Best course of action: Leash mastina and milk her role for all that it can give us.
Mastina is scum fakeclaiming: Best course of action: Lynch mastina.

Lets look at the worst case scenarios:

Tailor/Lawyer: I'm going to leave discussion on how to play around this til tomorrow because it's too late in the day to do anything about it now.
Cult: The only thing we CAN do is hunt for cult leaders. Which... fuck cult.
Scum Fakeclaiming: We lose x days of lynching, but we don't lose any time with PR's. assuming x is 5 clears, that means we are at 16 alive assuming 1 KPN before we lynch mastina assuming scum don't . mastina dies, meaning one less scum and we have five days of PR results. If scum choose to kill in the 'clear' pool to keep mastina alive longer, they are literally shooting people we would've lynched anyway. If they shoot mastina, it resolves the situation. If mastina is scum, then there is more town power hiding in the wings to make catching her/other scum more likely.

Today, lynching mastina is possibly the stupidest choice we could make, and I think I'm well within rights to BoP you wanting to lynch her today given what I remember of Lynch the Wolves.

Yeah yeah, fancy words. takeaway: we know nothing

So what is your read on Mastina?

[Vecna]

Yeah yeah, fancy words. takeaway: we know nothing

So... You're claiming you're an idiot.

Because that whole post? That's all about why it's stupid to lynch mastina. And you've responded to literally 0% of it.

And what I saw of mastina's early play (looking primarily at the claim and surrounding pages) looks town. Your argument of "mastina's not here because RL" is fully NAI wrt her, so it's not even worth addressing.

No im claiming youre rehashing every argument we've already had and that everyone with a bit of common sense has already gone through these motions in their head. Its not like you just pulled out the holy grail of wisdom here. Its just a lot of words.

Its really simple: If she's town, duh we dont want to lynch her. If she is scum, she is doing something that will completely fuck us over.

So yes, it comes down to reading her. Not some mechanics debate where we continue to argue over upside, downside and risk. My argument is that she HAS been here. She contributed more than 60% of the thread pre replacements. But a significant chunk of it was talking about RL stuff, and she is refusing to answer about any reads when asked about it so far.

So I WANT people to press her on that. I want people to get a read on her. Letting her live because of mechanical reasoning here is the dumbest thing you can do. If she's scum youre just giving her a free win.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Mastina

[Vecna]

She used it already, so im assuming my vote will count just fine for whatever outcome it has. Im pretty sure Chickadee is town here, so im voting for Mastina in the gladiate.

Regardless, I dont see any scenario where Chickadee and Mastina are scum here together, so maybe Ill give in to Jingle here and wait for a day.

[Vecna]

Jingle, care to inform us how much of the game you have actually read?

You seem way pretty darn confident in all your stances for someone that just replaced in, and really aware of all the shit going on.

[Vecna]

Pretty sure the logic quite explicitly goes into detail on how no, if scum, she is not doing something that will completely fuck us over.

The post only focusing on why it could be town. The negatives are brushed off with no real thought given whatsoever. We've already had someone claim ascetic, what are PR's going to get us for information if scum just kills with an ascetic? Maybe scum have very little power and realized its a low powered setup. Very little risk in running a gambit such as this then (note that the claims so far definitely support this potential).

Mastina already noted herself that the mod had no flavor for a no lynch. She even stated the mod had given her a troll role. Hints at the setup not being designated to resolve around a day-cop that relies on a lot of trust being given.

The post took its stance and formulated the arguments to fit it. There was no real analysis in the post. Thats why I brushed it off. I probably shouldnt have, but I cba with a mechanics and "X happens given Y" discussion right now.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Mastina

Anyways, lets see what happens.

[Vecna]

Im just gonna assume its a mod mistake, and the duel isnt actually between Mastina and Kuroi again

[Vecna]

What? what are you talking about lol.

Mastina duelled Chickadee, but the mod made a votecount between Mastina and Kuroi (including awesomely copy-pasta'd stuff about vax and ginngie still being able to vote).

Im not stating anything about what you said (and my assumptions usually kick ass).

[Vecna]

Why are you ignoring me creature. Say some sweet words.

[Vecna]

Im sitting on the sidelines, observing.

Fascinatingly, I might

[Vecna]

add

[Vecna]

So many gunclaims all of a sudden while there was only 1 kill on N1.

[Vecna]

I'm not ignoring you. You didn't ask anything.

I asked you for some sweet words

[Vecna]

VOTE: Vecna

Because scum role can have town utility and still be scum role and flavor is not indicative of alignment either. Go read SU2 mafia for details on how scum role can have town flavor and town utility and still be a scum role.

Just an example because you mentioned SU2 like all the time in that game




Okay NicoRobin is scum, I'm satisfied

Yeah, I was already having similair feelings about that stuff, i just couldnt quite place it where from.

[Vecna]

Mastina already noted herself that the mod had no flavor for a no lynch. She even stated the mod had given her a troll role. Hints at the setup not being designated to resolve around a day-cop that relies on a lot of trust being given.

Explain how this, in any way, is an argument for mastina being scum.

Its not. It was more an argument of there being a lot more to consider for the counter-side of the argument, aka possibilities of Mastina being scum.

Either way, I think I -might- have lost interest in actually lynching Mastina today. Im gonna give it some more thought and see what other shady shit develops here and make up my mind tomorrow.

[Vecna]

All my scumreads actually leaning in to side with my argument and lynch Mastina means either my reads are really terrible, or im just completely on the wrong side of this and was about to fuck up a town power house.

For me personally, the duel on Chickadee was a wasted action/day, but at least this also contributes to a scum Mastina not having as much of an impact, meaning there is less harm in waiting it out.

[Vecna]

Large 214, read it

Would like to point out, having just read this, that the difference between the disloyal scum claiming loyal and mastina claiming loyal as disloyal would be that disloyal fruit vendor could potentially fake an innocent on a partner. Disloyal gladiator could not. Therefore, this comparison is inherently flawed.

Like, mastina claiming loyal as a disloyal scum gladiator would be borderline game throwing because not only would she not be able to survive to endgame, but she would in fact STILL NECESSARILY be clearing townies.

Noone is claiming any of this. The only possibility is Mastina is town, or an ordinary scum gladiator making up the loyal thing. Most likely the first, I admit. But the second shouldnt be ruled out, and Id like you to at least pressure mastina to participate tomorrow and not be above explaining reads when asked to repeatedly.

[Vecna]

S'what I thought.

I can't say I expected more, but dammit man you let grudges get in the way too often.

Also, if you give me a gun and don't lynch mastina I'll shoot NR for you.

You do this to gamma emerald instead and it’s a deal.

I don’t care enough about NicoRobin to want her dead

Wait, I can save a hard townread by shooting a null read instead of a townlean?

You realize you're sweetening the pot, right?

Done and done.

You actually still think there is gonna be 12 votes to lynch Mastina here? Like, I understand everyone loves guns, but dont pretend theres any reason otherwise.

[Vecna]

Nah, you are townreading her solely because of her role. If I am wrong and you're also townreading her because of her play.......well, then it would be a different story entirely.

I'm not arguing that she's town because of her play because I shouldn't have to. The role should be more than enough.

With that said, this IS mastina's towngame, and the only real argument to the contrary I've seen is her lack of presence, which has never been an alignment indicative mastina tell.

Youre still ignoring the real arguments. Im starting to get tempted again to push for Mastina's lynch just based solely on this bullshit.

[Vecna]

Nah, you are townreading her solely because of her role. If I am wrong and you're also townreading her because of her play.......well, then it would be a different story entirely.

I'm not arguing that she's town because of her play because I shouldn't have to. The role should be more than enough.

With that said, this IS mastina's towngame, and the only real argument to the contrary I've seen is her lack of presence, which has never been an alignment indicative mastina tell.

Let me welcome you to mastina school of thought, then.

See, now, that's not enough and never will be. Role shouldn't be the sole factor in reading someone. mastina will tell you that herself when she gets here, so I will say no more on the matter.

Yes we get it, role is not indicative of alignment.

Why the fuck is Mastina scum, you silly parrot

[Vecna]

Well, I am not only a triple voter, I am also a rolecop. That's what Porkens wanted me to say, and now I have.

Oh....A tripple-voter rolecop that can talk to people at night somehow?

What was the thing that happened between you and Porkens at night?

[Vecna]

One particularly interesting thing is how certain NicoRobin is that Mastina is lying, when she supposedly holds a role that can determine this and did not use it to determine this, but is critical of others for being so sure she is telling the truth.



But I mean the visible panic with her interactions with me should be all you need anyway

Way more interesting question: What result could she possibly have gotten on Porkens role that makes her so sure Mastina is lying about a loyal modifier and thus scum?

Still two pages to go, but this feels a bunch like Porkens puppeteering her somehow.

[Vecna]

Nah, you are townreading her solely because of her role. If I am wrong and you're also townreading her because of her play.......well, then it would be a different story entirely.

I'm not arguing that she's town because of her play because I shouldn't have to. The role should be more than enough.

With that said, this IS mastina's towngame, and the only real argument to the contrary I've seen is her lack of presence, which has never been an alignment indicative mastina tell.

Let me welcome you to mastina school of thought, then.

See, now, that's not enough and never will be. Role shouldn't be the sole factor in reading someone. mastina will tell you that herself when she gets here, so I will say no more on the matter.

Yes we get it, role is not indicative of alignment.

Why the fuck is Mastina scum, you silly parrot

Why is she not?

History has taught me that I suck at reading Mastina and I just get agitated to hell and back by her behavior. Ill be delegating this task, but if she continues to agitate me my vote will return for sure.

[Vecna]

She gets a free pass for one more day based on her ability. If I havent seen convincing arguments/play that makes her town by play, Ill be back to lynching her.

[Vecna]

VOTE: No lynch

[Vecna]

One particularly interesting thing is how certain NicoRobin is that Mastina is lying, when she supposedly holds a role that can determine this and did not use it to determine this, but is critical of others for being so sure she is telling the truth.



But I mean the visible panic with her interactions with me should be all you need anyway

Way more interesting question: What result could she possibly have gotten on Porkens role that makes her so sure Mastina is lying about a loyal modifier and thus scum?

NR?

[Vecna]

However, there is a part you neglected to include: what if my rolecop says that her entire role is false, not just the loyal part?

The fuck? The gladiate part is confirmed by the fact that we now have a 1v1 showdown. Again. What type of gibberish?

[Vecna]

Hmmm crap, I think im getting a sense of what Nico is actually trying to tell us here.

[Vecna]

What im thinking youre trying to say still makes no sense with your actions earlier in the day though. Like were you posturing, or did you really want to vote Porkens?

[Vecna]

Do you have a high confidence that its actually Mastina that is scum, and not Porkens setting you up for the dirty work?

[Vecna]

Because it.....changes things.

[Vecna]

reads are really terrible

They objectively are.

I didn't want to bring this up, but the reads list wall you made is pretty much 100% of the reason I'm scumreading Vizzy.

Was this scum truthtelling?

[Vecna]

Ok, im not sure if what I think is happening is happening.

What an annoying situation. Did you have a neighbourhood with Porkens?

[Vecna]

Actually dont answer that.

[Vecna]

What is BoP again?

[Vecna]

like in 2739 said he'd be willing to PL based on BoP .

I asked him who he'd use it/apply it too.

He said Vecna but that it would confirm him and doesn't kill him. And then white knights him.

but like...that's not how a policy lynch using BOP works. So I'm mostly just confused with a side of b/c I feel like Jingle is just using strongly worded bullshit to make himself sound smart.

Also lol @ Vecna as good town.

Thats just uncalled for, I do have my moments

[Vecna]

Also jingle, this stuff about me under performing is just nonsense. If you want to measure my performance, make people start listening to me. Like, by not forcing a duel on Chickadee for example (I know you were against it as well), who was pretty obv-town and a complete waste of a duel for a preferable end-game state. Trying to state my reads are bad on whatever measurement you used for that determination is just ego or scum talking. Stirring shit up around the Mastina slot has a double agenda as well, at least it is something to get people to take stances on, which was very much needed in this game with 100 pages of nothing.

If you wanna try and run me up tomorrow, go ahead - but once again youre just gonna get a useless duel, and one I do not prefer (for plenty of reasons that do not include me being scum, Im a survival expert and I do not need to be cleared in order to survive any lynch threat).

[Vecna]

No, and you should see what happened to scum the last time they tried to use a neighborhood to try and manipulate me. (Hint: I got them borked)

Which game? *leers intensely*

You answered your own question yourself.

i think ur question is pointless because i would ignore her as either alignment.

No I meant your reaction to me feels different than how you played that out
And why tf are you ignoring Nico? You are aware she kinda broke the last Upick right? So any hate is undeserved imo.

i think ur question is pointless because i would ignore her as either alignment.

No I meant your reaction to me feels different than how you played that out
And why tf are you ignoring Nico? You are aware she kinda broke the last Upick right? So any hate is undeserved imo.

u would be wrong after everything she has done. and since you don't know the history i don't think u can say what she deserves.

but w/e.

I know enough of the history, and if you think after Yume’s performance in that game and the one specifically made to show how she could be a good player she deserves that kind of hate then you are a horribly spiteful person.

I know enough of the history, and if you think after Yume’s performance in that game and the one specifically made to show how she could be a good player she deserves that kind of hate then you are a horribly spiteful person.

You really don't know the history. You know a small glimpse. And I am not spiteful enough to air out dirty laundry in this game. I don't like her and that is enough said.

I’ve been around for when the hate was at its peak and asked questions. I THINK I KNOW ENOUGH.

That’s misconstruing the facts you fuck. You only “bonked” them by shooting so much their horribly designed role got them killed. If you had listened to me INSTEAD OF HAMMERING ME we would have lynch that scum Day 3, or Day 4 if you went against me initially. But NOOOO, LET’S ALL IGNORE GAMMA’S COUNTERCLAIM BECAUSE HIS OPINION MEANS JACK SHIT.

That's not what you said earlier?

Also, isn't that the same as what ya'll are doing? Not listening to me because my opinion means jack shit?

People dont have your information NR, and as you can tell Porkens is not being very supportive of the stance you are taking here. Doesnt that tell you something as well?

[Vecna]

Im just subtly trying to figure out if youre implying what I thought you were implying. Guess not.

[Vecna]

stop. nico is lying.

might be a mastina and nico both as scum plot. but nico is lying.

[Vecna]

im still catching up. do not speedlynch mastina.

[Vecna]

That said I did here that Creature actually played a scumgame with his town meta this one time

all the time, recently. everyone misreads him based on outdated meta

[Vecna]

NOBODY ELSE CLAIM SHIT


WE HAVE A GODDAMN LOUD DOCTOR


UNLESS YOU HAVE A GUILTY, HIDING THE FUCKING DOCTOR IS THE BEST USE OF ANY UNCLAIMED ROLE.

bullcrap

[Vecna]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

bullshit as well.

porkens, nico, mastina scum?

[Vecna]

who received my visit last night?

[Vecna]

who received my visit last night?

That's weird, he's not in the game.
/don't hit me for the bad dad jokes/

I dont understand this, or why it was quoting my question.

It was a serious question

[Vecna]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

bullshit as well.

porkens, nico, mastina scum?

I think we should be discussing how laughable it is that anyone is townreading this.

I think we could also discuss how youre not trying to find out what I actually meant with it. Because after all this mechanics talk that you seem to think youre really good at, its just really funny how youre missing the extremely obvious.

[Vecna]

Nico, how does your role work? Is it targetted at night? Does it already start at the start of night?

[Vecna]

Thats.....odd. So you have to submit it before the lynch? And Mastina gets some type of prompt/question while night is in progress?

[Vecna]

So your targets gets the option to reveal their role to you, if they do not you become a tripple voter against them?

How come you could tripple vote Porkens straight off the bat on D2, but were still waiting on Mastina's response here? Is that part of your role, or is something weird happening according to you?

[Vecna]

Nm, just read the Mastina post. So weird that those 48 hours can cross into day though. The interactions also dont make sense.

[Vecna]

quiet quiet quiet

[Vecna]

This can all be themed as "The great scumhunt for whomever it was that saved Mastina"

JJH claiming deathproof and thinking it was him that died with a Mastina and 2 clears

Jingle claiming to have a visit from a loud doc. What?

NicoRobin claiming she had stuff happen to Mastina. Waiting 48h for some rolecop. Now a tracker?

All of this seems to be focusing on determining whom it was that saved mastina last night. Ofcourse, realistically speaking, its rather unlikely that more than one of these is scum and fishing for the answer. There is some fishing going on here however.

[Vecna]

For the record, I find it hilariously unlikely that the doc succeeded in stopping a kill by targeting me. Revealing that said doc exists is still pro town.

I dont believe for a second a town doctor with the quoted mechanics and choices exists.

[Vecna]

Your answer feels more like a deflection than a town that actually got a visit from a loud doctor and is curious about wtf is going on.

[Vecna]

Or maybe I don’t like conversations that are likely to narrow down the pool of possible loud doctors and would prefer letting them do whatever the hell they feel like doing.

If you doubt the information I gave out, that’s on you. There is no alignment I could be that would have a reason to lie about a loud doctor visiting me. I don’t know why they chose what they chose and any speculation along those lines is anti town.

Making these resolute statements along the lines of "There is no way" is always so short-sighted. If youre scum that tried to kill mastina last night, you definitely would have reason to throw about claims about roles that couldve saved her, to see what type of reactions you get. Because in that scenario, scum would really really have to find a way to kill Mastina.

The same applies to the JJG claim of being deathproof. Just wait and see if any reactions to other scenario's that mightve resulted in a no-kill come to the surface.

In-direct rolefishing is the most scummy type of rolefishing.

What benefit does town have to knowing JJH is deathproof? Or that there is a loud doctor that went and visited you? It only serves to illuminate to scum why their kill went tits up. Gives them mechanical info, if true.

[Vecna]

Im fairly certain that Mastina was commuted or jailkept or something along those lines, because my top secret ability also failed to deliver the expected result.

A roleblock couldve also done it, but to be fair, who would try to roleblock me with my claimed flavor/mechanics.

[Vecna]

Meh, maybe if they tried to verify my music claim, but it still sounds pretty far-fetched

[Vecna]

Regardless, Mastina somehow being untargetable fits by far the best with the result that Nico is dodgily claiming and my result. It also is by far the most likely explanation of what happened with the missing kill.

A jailkeeper really fits terribly with Jingle's claim though, unless either of them is scum. A scum jailkeeper targeting mastina to prevent Nico's pre-announced rolecop could be a thing I guess, but that coinciding with no nightkill would be pretty coincidental.