A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[mastina]

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

[mastina]

VOTE: chickadee

VOTE: Chickadee

7th

Town.

VOTE: NicoRobin

VOTE: vaxkiller
killing = mafia

Town?

Hi, all ye who exist here.

My flavor is Portgas D. Ace.

Scum?

First!

Scum.

VOTE: Chickadee.

[mastina]

But RC's votecounts don't seem to have L-numbers on rn so how do we test the hatred

You don't.

You take me at my word, since I don't lie as scum and this isn't something I'd lie about as town.

I mean I suppose if we have a rolecop they could always rolecop me but since that's relying on a role which is quite likely nonexistent, the two options are trust me or lynch me with one less of a threshold than normal; there's no other choice.

[mastina]

I'm happy enough treating mastina as conftown at least for now unless someone can explain how that has utility as a scum role or fakeclaim outside of being townread for it and never using it

Bad idea.

Really bad idea.

ESPECIALLY in a RadiantCowbells game.

Role != alignment.

Read me off of play.

I needed to claim the hated because no duh that's kinda an important detail; leaving it unclaimed leads to me getting accidentally lynched by a player thinking I was at L-1 actually hammering me. I didn't, technically speaking, need to claim the gladiate but since I've no desire to use it unless we can no-lynch afterwords (something I'm waiting on a response from RC on), I also saw no reason to leave it unclaimed especially since by claiming it, the town can maybe, MAYBE find utility in it down the road.

But for all intents and purposes.

I'm a Hated VT.
So treat me as such when reading me.

[mastina]

I can't believe that you don't lie as scum

Exercise.

Find a single instance of me lying about my role as scum.
I'll help.
Here's a slightly incomplete list of my recentish scumgames in the last few years. (Highlight: claiming godfather as the godfather, but saying I was a town godfather.)

In every one of those, I claimed my real role (often with real results) or the mod-provided safeclaim.

Exercise.
Find a single instance of me mentioning lying as a pro-scum strategy.
Exercise.
Try to compile the NUMEROUS times--both as town and scum--I have gone on record to state that lying as scum is incredibly stupid because the best weapon is the truth; if you have the truth on YOUR side as scum, you have the advantage over the town because you're being sincere, you're being genuine, you don't have to lie, and that fools tonereaders because by their metric you're tripping all the townbells because you're not actually lying.

I don't lie as scum, because lying as scum would be playing against wincon. It's not that I

can't

lie as scum. It's not that I have a trust tell about lying as scum. It's just that ten times out of ten. It is always tremendously stupid to lie as scum. And within my interests to tell the truth as scum.

Lying as scum gives the town the win.
If you disagree, feel free to try it out yourself. When you next roll scum, try lying about your role, especially in a theme game.
See how well it turns out for you.

[mastina]

Role correlates strongly with alignment

No, it really doesn't and you will be fucked over by thinking otherwise.

The list of actual alignment-specific roles is incredibly small, and even then RC is the type of mod who would bend boundaries by, say, giving a Strongman to the town. (In fact I'm pretty sure a Strongman Vig has indeed been an RC role at least once.)

If you want to win the game, judge others by their play.

Not by their role.

[mastina]

Flip the idea: you could discern scum by finding that your action failed.

Well, yes.
*I* could.

The town could not.

[mastina]

PEdit: true jjh, if it fails it’s mastina’s word against the target’s.

Also.
Statistically speaking.
I am more likely to hit town than hit scum, ESPECIALLY as this is basically a vig, so.
Fuck that shit.
I hate rolling vig-type roles, and this as it determines a lynch is basically the ultimate vig-type role.

[mastina]

so mastina do you have a plan for using your gladiate or what?

If I can use it as a cop, then yes. On a day we're on evens and we have good reason to know/suspect there won't be two deaths during the night, I'll use it.

If I can't, then no, but that's one reason to claim it;

I

may not think of a use, but

others

might.

like how is that the most important thing for you right now?

It's not. I have reasons for it, but I have more important things.

Care to guess what they are?

[mastina]

So you’re not gonna use it ever, okay

Most likely, yes.
There's a chance, given specific circumstances, I could use it; failing those circumstances, I will not.

[mastina]

You aren't a vig.

I didn't say I was.

I said I was a vig-type role.

A gladiator takes the fate of another player directly into your hands, and your hands alone, and assuming you win the gladiate, kills them.

It's the same reason I despise the doublevoter role. Being able to disproportionately decide the lynch candidate places a disproportionate amount of weight on ME, requiring that I be right. I am, in no world, a remotely competent scumhunter; as a consequence, I am disproportionately likely to kill town using that type of role.

[mastina]

Also, Ginngie-
Did you get anything from RC saying you recognised Mastina or anything similar?

I don't think so.
If she did, it should have also been in my role PM; it was not.

Titus, the role makes plenty of sense and it's not a miller

Fun fact, Gamma's sig given my view on vote/lynch manipulation roles being equivalent to a vig is quite hilariously appropriate given my role.

She fakeclaimed D3 IC iirc? but was in actuality mafia vig, so I would definitely think it’s wise to take hers and probably most early claims with a grain of salt.

While technically true, this is incredibly misleading.
I fakeclaimed D3 innocent child...as a N2 Vigilante. (And once D3 rolled around, I realclaimed my role. So no. Didn't lie. Told the truth!)
Given my stance on Vigilantes.
That in of itself was not a lie.
It was misleading, sure.
But my stance on vigilantes is that when they successfully shoot, they

are

conftown; they are proven to be town, and thus, proven innocent, just as if they were an innocent child. (Why this, in spite of my stance of roles != alignment? Because I am a member of the NRG and I am strongly in favor of the argument of vigs not being mafia-controlled. Nontown, sure. Even antitown, fine. But mafia vigs are a fuck no to me and are borderline bastard. They're not QUITE there, in that they're akin to a mafia Godfather; it is something TREMENDOUSLY powerful for the scum to have and NOT something I want in games out there willy-nilly.)

You can see my full realclaim the moment D3 unfolds, right here.

Spoiler: The Posts in Question

Actual claim: Night 2 Vig; last night, I shot Purrcocet.

(And yes, it's spelled that way. Not Vigilante; Vig. Not N2, Night 2.)

Purrcocet, a scumread of mine no less!, claimed my fucking role. He fucking claimed Night 2 vigilante. I had been

planning

to shoot someone like, say, Kokichi Oma, but as a vig the correct play is to always just fucking shoot your counterclaim especially when you don't get the chance to fucking talk all of D2.

I was basically breadcrumbing this role in every fucking post of mine (I can pull up my VERY specific wordings in a bit), but.
The reasoning for the fakeclaim should be self-evident. I said on D3 I would be an innocent child; that's because you don't fucking give a vigilante to a scum player, and the proof would be in the second nightkill with me having killed Purrcocet. (Well originally I was planning on shooting Kokichi, but. Yaknow. Claimed my exact fucking role, and all that.) By claiming D3 Innocent Child, I would lead scum to think I had no night action; by claiming D3 innocent child, I would lead players to think that I was utterly harmless before D3.

But for SOME fucking reason.

Purrcocet isn't dead.

So.

Purrcocet.
You've got some 'splainin' to do.

BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not

automatic

; I have to manually

trigger

it.

Investigatives should stay off of me because a gunsmith would get a guilty on me; rolecopping or vanilla copping or neapolitaning me would be a waste because my role would be proven come N2 with a successful vig.

I made it clear from the wording here what my true role is. AUTOMATIC-->guns. TRIGGER-->guns.

I guarantee you.

On D3, after I have triggered my action.

I will be conftown.

Again, I specify TRIGGER. I also was very careful with my wording. I never said that I would trigger my action ON D3. I said, QUITE SPECIFICALLY, I would be conftown on D3 after HAVING triggered my action.

Wrt innocent child shenanigans it's possible they have something to do with the "main characters" this setup is based around

I'm not a main character; my confirmation comes from a different method altogether.

My confirmation method comes from being a fucking vig.

Or they'll just do to you what they did to me and vanillarize-neighborize you.

That'd be their funeral then because it'd turn this game from "not exactly something I want" to "oh fuck you I AM GOING TO WIN THIS SHIT" mode.

Vanillaizing an innocent child wouldn't do much because I go without being conftown in most games, but I was specifically putting A LOT OF EFFORT into the strategy behind my vig; being vanillaized after I worked so hard on that would be a "fuck you".

This is no excuse to not post any reads because you can die before hand.

I have my reasons.

Put it this way.

If a townread of mine gets run up, I'll defend them.

I'll give thoughts on players randomly. Some of these may even be productive.

But I've no reason to give full reads before then.

Also this is a good way to help ensure I

don't

bite the bullet before D3. The suspicion on me helps me stay alive.

I know how to play roles, even ones I'm not particularly fond of. (I mean, I love being conftown, but this is a fairly shitty way to get it.) And I promise you, this is the best possibly strategy for me holding this role.

"Bite the bullet" was another hint, but the strongest hint here was "roles I'm not particularly fond of". What role have I on NUMEROUS different occasions stated I absolutely loathe? That's right. Vigilante. I hate them with a passion, but they have one particular use--being made conftown. It's a SHITTY way to become conftown, but it's becoming conftown nonetheless.

Also, this was me outlining my plan.

I wasn't going to give scumreads because guess what? As a fucking vig, I can let my SHOT do the talking in terms of scumreads.

I never lie about being conftownable as town.

Exaggerate

, yes.

Mislead

, sure!
But lie, fuck no, I know better than that.

So I guarantee you.

I will be conftown.

Here I basically admitted that I was in fact not a D3 IC, because the D3 IC claim was precisely this: misleading, and exaggeration, but still the truth, because by shooting N2, I'd be conftown on D3, just as good as an IC.

I'm gonna guess she's on a team with a vanillarizor or something and planned to explain it away that way or something

Joke's on them if they vanillaize me, actually. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried.

The assumption here was that I wouldn't be vanillaized N1 (after all, they thought I couldn't be conftown until D3 so why vanillaize me N1?), and if they attempted it N2, it presumably wouldn't stop my shot from going off. Thus, why the joke would be on them if they had tried; I'd still have fucked them over with the shot.

VOTE: Katsuki

I buy Katsuki's D5 Innocent Child claim if Katsuki has the two-phase-shifted equivalent of my role. (I

suspect

Katsuki would be able to share details about my role from their own, if so inclined to share, which I imagine Katsuki is not.)

So that's not a lynch ever happening because Katsuki is going to be just as conftown as I am, albeit two phases later than I will be.

Here I stated my suspicion that Katsuki had an Night 4 Vig. I was VERY careful about my wording. Not "two-day-shifted". Two PHASE shifted. And I suspected Katsuki would be able to give details of this.

if we have 2 ics there must be a disadvantage somewhere else

Would you believe me if I said I had an idea of what?

The disadvantage I am referring to here is how Vigs require KILLING, to REMOVE a player from the game--yes, they become conftown by having done so, but shots are DISPROPORTIONATELY likely to be on town (thus why I hate vigs), on top of the chance of failure (thus the gambit to help ensure I'd succeed).

I do not believe for so much as ONE SECOND I was roleblocked, because my claim was D3 Innocent Child.
I do not believe for so much as ONE SECOND I was redirected, because my claim was D3 Innocent Child.
I do not believe for so much as ONE SECOND I was rolecopped N1 to justify them knowing my role, because my claim was D3 Innocent Child.

So Purrcocet survived by some other means.
And I don't buy that it's by a town method.

Sure enough.

Exactly as I roleclaimed.

N2 Vigilante

was

my real role, and

I really did

shoot Purcocet using it.

So like I said.

I don't lie about my role as scum.

BY NECESSITY, I will mislead; the reason I by necessity need to mislead as scum is because I love to do it as town. BY NECESSITY, I will exaggerate, I will play up things, I will make very careful usage of very specific wording. BY NECESSITY, I will try to imply something, when it is something else, but this is done purely to mimic my town meta, and I will always claim the actual real role later.

All fakeclaims have an end date.

All fakeclaims are made knowing a realclaim will need to be made later.

And when I reveal the real claim, the reason for the fakeclaim makes complete and total sense when you view it, because you go, "Oh, I understand why that was done" instantly just by knowing the real role.
You can think of it in this term.
Macho <-> Bulletproof as a switch to make, is in fact a lie.
I would tell it gladly and have done so, specifically because I knew that upon a realclaim, the reasons for me having done so would be abundantly clear. The kind of thing where I don't even need to explain it. I could end up a corpse, and that fact alone, just seeing my flip, would instantly explain my actions.

That's how "lies" of mine work. And that's why I say they're not actually lies. They are, technically speaking, not the truth. But they are a lack of truth, which when you see the truth, you understand why they were done and follow it as having been the optimal play.

Claiming D3 Innocent Child as a N2 vig was a

brilliant

play move,

regardless

of alignment and I'm actually sad I was scum that game because that move would have actually been better were I town. It wasn't really a lie, just me playing the closest I've ever played to my town meta in spite of how little I actually played the game. (Through little fault of my own, mind you.)

If the town hadn't kept quicklynching and I hadn't been so swamped with real life stuff at the time that game coulda been a contender for best scumgame I ever played, but since they did and I was busy I barely got to do anything. BUT I DIGRESS.

Point being.

I don't lie as scum; the closest I come to lying as scum is mimicking my town lies, and when I lie as town, I am most definitively not doing so just for the lulz; there is a clear, role-based reason for the lie and when you see the real role you can understand how it wasn't really much of a lie at all if it was in fact really something you could call a lie because my fondness for wordplay and precise usage of words leads me to carefully selecting words which IMPLY the meaning I want BUT ACTUALLY are me confessing to my real role.

Oh yeah and
VOTE: Skygazer

Very bad vote.

Gamma is probably town, I think.

This is true!

[mastina]

The town mastina I know asks questions first, I don't liek this.

The town mastina you know also doesn't phonepost or write posts when late for tae kwon do or some other similar activity and yet that is precisely what I am doing this game.

I'm not as active onsite as I used to be. I also don't spend most of my time on here in the same way I used to. Most of my browsing I do on my phone now; a fair number of my posts I actually write on my phone. Not in games, not when modding, but for PT posts, MD posts, and the like, a lot of it's on my phone, during breaks in my busy schedule.

I didn't have a chance to ask the question before. The first chance I got was when the game began, and I did so immediately; I'm still waiting for a response.

Also to some extent.

Every time I play extensively on an alt, I tend to pick up some of my alt's habits on my main, that are then permanently integrated into my playstyle.

This is the first game I've played on mastina since having used one of my alts. (At least I'm pretty sure it is?) So some of my habits from there--including the increase in phoneposting and the like--have been picked up now in this game.

This is the new norm for me; I'll not be able to do what I did before. I just have too much of a life.

...Not to mention, too much of a strong Civ 3 addiction.

It's always a politicians lie tho.

Exactly!

A statement which is always true, but true in a way that is not what people would assume. A statement carefully, deliberately worded, as to imply one meaning while actually meaning another.

I don't lie; I mislead.

But this is not a role which I can mislead you on. (I mean, I suppose there could be a hated <-> loved switch but if that were the case you'd think I'd fakeclaim it'd still work in mylo/lylo as to set the bait, but. No such luck.) I can gladiate town; I take one less vote to lynch outside mylo/lylo. It's something easily proven at any time. Just, tremendously stupid to do on a whim, especially so early in the game.

I do not want to control the lynch. Keep in mind that using my power

does

, no matter what, control the lynch. Because by using my power, I automatically prevent all lynches except two, leaving it as only myself, only my target, and MAYBE (RC still hasn't answered me yet) no lynch. Which means, on D1, if I used it, I would be saying, "Hey, those 20 players who contain people you widely scumread and would love to lynch? Yeah sorry, you can't lynch them thanks to me".

The only way I don't control the lynch is if I get a guilty. Which, I suppose. Is still a form of a controlled lynch in that we lynch my target, but it's a controlled lynch in a GOOD way rather than a BAD way. (But in a game of this side, we're likely to have 4-5 scum. Even assuming the higher number of 5, that's a 16/21 chance of targeting town, and any targeting of town is instantly controlling the lynch.)

[mastina]

But having the word “hated” in your role is odd.

You're familiar with the modifier Hated, right? The flavor name of it is textspeak "Please fucking no", but with parenthesis of 'Hated' to indicate what the ability is, and then a description of it, requiring one less vote to lynch outside of mylo/lylo.
(The gladiate ability's flavorname for the curious is, predictably enough. "I HAVE A GUILTY".)

Incidentally.

Pretty sure this is singleball with no 3p given my ability's wording.

It specifies that it fails on mafia and only works on town, so.

[mastina]

also, Mastina should totally use her power on Chick.

I mean I do scumread her, but we'd need to get the consent of at least half the town first, make sure both outcomes are accounted for, and especially wait for RC to give me a reply.

I dont see him pulling that as scum

I'm pretty sure he has done it as scum, BUT. I am also pretty sure this is a town Nero. Like, we're talking, 90+% range sure this is a town Nero.

I wish Ank were here, since she can probably read you the best, right?

Ank's skill at reading me isn't the highest, but it is high. I'd wager she's at around Ginngie caliber.

Thankfully, guess who's in the game?

Anyway, who are your scumreads so far?

You apparently haven't been paying attention since I gave them already.

I wanted to give a full readslist but even speeding at 10-20 mph over the speed limit on slick roads I was almost late for tae kwon do as-was, so it had to wait until now. Gimme a sec, will compile very shortly.

[mastina]

Ginngie
Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
randomidget
Skygazer
Invisibility
jjh927
Nosferatu
Wh4t
Porkens
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)
Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
Whemestar
KuroiXHF
Lady Angel
Vecna
Titus
Vaxkiller
Nicorobin
Chickadee

About this.

The closer to the middle, the more hazy it gets. Note that further north is more strong than further south for this though.

[mastina]

So I mentioned before that my current busy life meant that my post habits have changed. (Especially right now, when I am sick with a persistent virus, and my bipolar disorder is making it worse because physical and mental illnesses feed off of one another, making each other last longer and manifest stronger.)

What this means, is: most of my posts will be on my "rest" days. Sunday (I DO work, but I finish at 1), MAYBE Mondays (I work until 1 and every other week have counseling until 3; on counsel weeks, I'm not up for playing), Tuesdays, and Fridays. (I am working now, but I get done at 1. Also, while I don't have family night tonight, I normally do. This is a mixed blessing; sometimes, family night leaves me so bored I've got nothing but spare time, so can post, other times I am too busy to post at all.)

So I'll be prod dodging a lot, or eating prods, in the Wednesday/Thursday gap.

I'll post tonight unless I have girlfriend time.
If I do prioritize girlfriend over game tonight, I can manage a post tomorrow.

[mastina]

As it turns out, did in fact have girlfriend time. (We marathoned through the majority of the Whitebeard War arc, starting a couple of episodes before Luffy and co. crashed into the scene, and ending on the episode where

Whitebeard dies

. If you're a OP buff, you can calculate the approximate starting episode and ending episode to figure out how much time that was. )

But am here now.

[mastina]

Ginngie
Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
randomidget
Skygazer
Invisibility
jjh927
Nosferatu
Wh4t
Porkens
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)
Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
Whemestar
KuroiXHF
Lady Angel
Vecna
Titus
Vaxkiller
Nicorobin
Chickadee

About this.

The closer to the middle, the more hazy it gets. Note that further north is more strong than further south for this though.

Wanted to start with clarifying these, though.

I had trouble forming separation in them, to give proper tiers.

But I want to explain more where I'm coming from.

This list can be thought of as a mixture of RVS and seriousness, in that it is entirely a serious list--but it involves a lot of guesswork on my part in areas.

The players near the top, there's no guesswork needed; they are actually town for definitive reasons, but it gets hazier the further down you get.

Ginngie is my top townread here because she instantly showed herself to be town. I get that she hasn't played much--I get that I haven't played much with her recently. I get that her scumgame is always getting, progressively, better and better. But in spite of that. There's just no way that her scumgame has improved in the leaps and bounds necessary for her to have so seamlessly hidden her tells. This is her towngame, through-and-through. I'm invoking the soulread privilege here; she's townier than an innocent child, town.

Nero Cain is not far behind. Nero Cain is quite capable of faking individual aspects of his town meta. It's not like he has any singular tell which works on him. He's quite capable of, say, posting up a storm as scum. But when it comes to Nero. There isn't just one aspect of difference between his towngame and his scumgame. There are multiple. And while he's capable of faking one or maybe two aspects of his town meta as scum. He can't fake them ALL. And this game, they are all, strongly, on display; he is town.

Gamma Emerald is actually a much, much easier to read player than people give him credit for. This one's a bit hard for me to explain, but all the promising signs are there. I loved his entrance into the game, and the insights he's been giving have been...well. Insightful, meaningful, and felt gamesolvy, while at the same time having his trademark level of laziness, for lack of a better word. It's casual, effortless, and natural, rather than stilted and artificial.

randomidget is a similar read. He's not that hard to get a good read on. He's always a bit of a "low-key" player, even lower than Gamma, but as town there's a certain level of insight he has even in his more "casual" style of posting. There's aspects of scumhunting and gamesolving to be found, and all the right markers are there.

Skygazer I have extensively witnessed her scumgame and towngame quite a lot (she's been in like literally every single Normal I've been a reviewer of as of late), and this is simply put not her scumgame. Not even remotely close to her scumgame. Immediately it's obvious to anyone with experience with her. The difference between the two is night and day. Even failing meta (which is, admittedly, not as extensive as Nero/Ginngie/Gamma/random metas), there's the content she has given, all of which has been in a direction I felt was distinctly pro-town.

Invisibility, I have basically no experience with whatsoever, but his gamesolving is quite similar to the others above, following the same patterns I've outlined. The insights he's given, the content he's contributed, have all felt natural, casual, and yet been pro-town in nature.

jjh, his mechanical talk I realize people didn't like--but I didn't care for it one way or another. For me, that wasn't really important at all and didn't affect my read on him whatsoever, being thoroughly null; regardless of his alignment, I feel like he'd have said much the same things as he did there. My townread comes from his content

outside

the mechanical talk, which is there if you look for it; all the places he's pushing, I can understand where he's coming from and even agree with a lot of it (see also, my placement of Titus and NicoRobin on my list and his treatment of their slots).

Nosferatu, I realize is a bit of a difficult read but I've had a fair amount of experience with Nos recently. Admittedly, basically all of it as town so I don't quite have the best knowledge of Nosferatu's scumgame, but. Everything I'm seeing matches the towngame performance I'd be expecting. There's the chance that I'm simply seeing NAI stuff across games and considering it town, but I still have liked Nos's content thusfar.

Wh4t and Porkens represent the point of null--but townish null. Herein enters the guesswork. Neither had posted at the time of my list, but the guesswork comes in, of their not having posted being a little town indicative. Not all "lack of posting" is created equal; for some users, it is indicative of town, for some it is indicative of scum, and for most it's just not indicative of anything at all. Differentiating between the three is an artform at best, but my guess here was that their lack of posting was town, more than scum.

Innocent Children had posted a lot, and while I liked what I saw more than I didn't, it wasn't anything I felt was strongly clearing of them.

Rylai and Lina had posted a fair bit, but I was far more ambivalent on their content, with about equal feelings of town/scum on them, but nothing I felt was strongly indicative of alignment.

Maid Cafe had posted a fair bit, but I wasn't that fond of their content, not liking it more than I liked it--yet in spite of disliking their contributions, it didn't feel strongly alignment indicative. Scummy, without necessarily indicating being scum, if that makes sense.

WhemeStar hadn't posted, so he was another guesswork. He's more of a nullish null, in that I thought his lack of posting wasn't really indicative of alignment.

Kuroi did post--once. 285 was something which I could easily see coming from either alignment, but I felt was slightly more likely to come from scum.

Lady Angel also had only one post--47. Similarly, it was something I could see coming from either alignment, but I felt that if Lady Angel were town, it was more likely her RVS would have had interactions with those who had already posted; it did not.

Vecna hadn't posted, so while this is also guesswork, this is a scummish null, because he absolutely

should

be posting, and posting up a storm no less. Vecna's both an incredible wallposter, and incredible spamposter. His post count is always in the hundreds, usually the 300-800 range. And in spite of producing that number of posts, about 33-50% of said posts are wallposts. He is someone I would expect to be incredible active in the game and among the first to be posting in it, so his absence felt strange.

Below that point, you get into actual scumread territory, but admittedly, not strong scumreads.

I hated pretty much everything Titus was doing and felt it was far more likely to be pushing a scum agenda; her one saving grace is that sometimes, a town Titus really does believe in those frankly anti-town things as in her moonlogicky mind being pro-town even though they really aren't. Still. While it

could

come from her as town, it is far more likely to come from her as scum.

Vaxkiller's entrance into the game felt entirely wrong. This is a little hard for me to really explain, but the places he's pushed and what he's doing just feel like...they're lacking something. Vaxkiller has a weird way of being oddly passionate as town, with some strange logic but still being someone with respectable good insights and reads, yet everything he's given has felt...lackluster. Like there was something from it missing.

NicoRobin is a read I am deliberately avoiding explaining for now; I am looking for something quite specific, but with it absent she's scum.

Chickadee's entrance into the game screamed scum, and nothing she's done in the game since then has shown anything else but scum. She's not scumhunting, not really, and is just kinda there, more worried about herself than she is about finding scum, with comments that don't contribute much of anything.

So that's where I was coming from; I need to read and give an update on these.

[mastina]

If you’re opposed to mafia-controlled vig Powers what was the role I had in Night and Day? That goes against your own beliefs, what the hell?

The mafia 1x dayvig as a boon was meant to give the scum flexibility--it could be used anonymously to take out a player the scum couldn't nightkill yet would never be lynched (the intended usage of the role), but allowed them the option of using it as a safeclaim to use instead of their real (scum-sounding) role (the usage seen in the game).

Plus, as a moderator I prefer to have a healthy balance between "these aspects can be predicted", and "this setup cannot be gamed by mod meta". By that, I mean: I prefer for people to have an advantage by good setup spec, but I also prefer for the game to not be broken by it; the latter means I am required to on occasion subvert previous mod meta.

That having been said. Usually, the subversions are something I end up dissatisfied with. Keep in mind also that I admitted in postgame that the setup for Night and Day wasn't well-designed. The mechanic was cool, but the setup was lackluster and a flaw in it

was

the dayvig. Given the choice to redesign the setup, I'd have redesigned it to be entirely different.

(Speaking of Night and Day, though: I designed a semiopen version of it to be run repeatedly as an Open theme game, which crossed the mechanic with a Pick Your Power X/Y mechanic--in that all the possible roles are known, and through draft, people would select them. I have it finished aside from one or two details; I just need to post it. I am even considering running this as my next Large Theme, because the large theme I want to run next is not even remotely close to ready.)

I'm really confused about why the haven't posted players are in different spots.

Because different people not posting means different things for those different people.

There's a big difference between, say. Creature not posting. And, say. Katsuki not posting. One not posting is a towntell; the other not posting, a scumtell.

[mastina]

Hi! XD

So some of my reads have changed and I'll need to recompile the readslist to show it but none of them more drastic than this.

VOTE: Wh4t.

[mastina]

I am the great Cornholio.
Do you have T.P. for my bunghole? I would hate for my holio to get polio.

So having had a posting restriction in the past I know for a fact RC can give them.

But I'm like 90% sure this is faked.

[mastina]

Oh just remembered.
Not sure if I actually told you this, but did get the answer from RC.
When I use my ability, town can in fact no-lynch, so.

[mastina]

OK Serious question: when you say if they are not town it will fail do you mean the gladiate will not happen or that the gladiate will happen and you will get lynched

The former. It will fail. And to my knowledge, the mod won't acknowledge it happened at all. There won't be a mod post announcing a lack of successful gladiate; it'll just be as if there never was one, making it indistinguishable between me faking a gladiate claim and me having used the gladiate but it failing due to targeting scum.

The actual role says my action will fail if I target scum, so. I'm presuming failed action when the action is gladiate is identical to failed action when the action is a non-investigative: no acknowledgement in any way whatsoever of it having failed, it just failed.

we have a modifier that will help us strongly if someone gladiates us. also why should I have the modifier if the gladiator is town.

Um.

You having that modifier is actually proof of my claim being real?

Like.

You, as town. Having a modifier that helps you when gladiated.
Is evidence corroborating my claim. Of being unable to gladiate anyone except for town.
Because if you are town.
And I am town.
I could only succeed when using it on you.

[mastina]

But can you elaborate on how Skygazer has good content, especially early on being enough to justify calling it a very bad vote

The very bad vote comes from the meta townread on Skygazer more than the good content, but sure. 16 is the towniest possible entry into the game. 31 builds on it.

VOTE: porkens
weak questioning, overconfident scumreads not backed up my a vote at any point this game

That's par for the course for Porkens.

[mastina]

The difference between real and faked post restrictions is that when it's a real one the game is to try and find a workaround, whereas when it's faked they're just having fun

The problem with faked posting restrictions is that Vecna is absolutely not a player who would fake it as town.

Idrc if it’s faked, as long as he’s contributory I’m fine.

The problem is, he isn't. And Vecna as town ALWAYS is.

[mastina]

Wait so why shouldn't you use it whenever someone gets intented to hammer?

See this?

This would be the reason I claimed the role.

Because I would not have thought of that.

Yet I see no reason not to use it that way, unless someone can bring up a valid counterargument.

How can a read "change drastically" when you never had a read on me initially mastina?

I had a read on you! Apparently you didn't read the wall where I outlined it.

I'm wolf af atm and you're the only one who's taken the bait so thanks for outting.

Uh-huh. Your early posting was

so

Slayer's Gambit, with no

possible

way it was just you being scum openly.

[mastina]

You, as town. Having a modifier that helps you when gladiated.
Is evidence corroborating my claim. Of being unable to gladiate anyone except for town.
Because if you are town.
And I am town.
I could only succeed when using it on you.

A townie having a gladiator modifier may make your claim legit but it on no way confirms you as town.

I don't recall stating it confirmed me as town.
I said it confirmed my role is what I claimed it to be.

Who's the one stretching now, mate?

[mastina]

Hey guys, hope you don't mind, but I need to put off posting until tomorrow.
My sickness took a bit of a turn for the worst; for the first time since I noticed symptoms three Sundays ago, I've got a sore neck, which is super hot to the touch. And for the first time, I've felt like I could vomit.

So I am taking the day off to rest and recover. Don't imagine that I'll magically get entirely cured overnight, but with proper rest, treatment, and such, I should be able to at least not be "dangerous symptoms, could throw up" tomorrow and back to just feeling bad.

[mastina]

Apologies for not posting yesterday. I didn't get better. If anything, I got worse. (Also, I'm losing weight. I'm 6'2", but dropped from 140ish to 131.7.)

I really don't feel up to playing right now, but if I waited until I was, realistically, I'd never play the game at all, because I am just not. Getting. Better. At all.

I am planning to go to the doctor, as soon as I can: Friday. (I don't think that they can help, given that I know that this isn't a bacterial infection, so if they advise I take an antibiotic, it's a wasted trip, but you never know until you try; they may actually be helpful, so I will give them a shot.)

In the mean time, as a compromise: I will read the posts immediately before this one, and all the ones after, once home from work, to contribute SOMETHING. I'll read the 25 pages that I will have missed, when able to.

Sickness SUCKS.

[mastina]

I have a date with my girlfriend scheduled for tonight, but I get my test results back tomorrow (or at least I should) and I'll have more free time, then, too; tomorrow I'll post.

[mastina]

I feel a bit lost rn so give me a bit to recollect and we can do a different wagon

As a reminder: if you are approaching this from the mindset of, "we have less than two days until deadline, we need to flashwagon someone to the point of a lynch", you're approaching it wrong.

Unless someone raised a valid counterargument, we're no-lynching today …AFTER I use my ability successfully. Unless of course I hit scum, in which case sure we lynch them, but I would work under the assumption which is statistically the more probable outcome.

For instance, it seems Porkens is the most popular Vecna countetwagon, and Porkens is town, so. If I used my ability there, would be surprised if I was targeting scum.

Still. You can't forget about my power. I'm not using it yet because I still don't want to dictate the (no-)lynch yet, but I SHOULD, and therefore, WILL, be using it before the end of the day phase.

Still need to read the interim content in full, a bit limited at the moment since I'm phoneposting.

[mastina]

BTW my lynch list is:
Maid Café
NicoRobin
Chickadee
Titus
Kuroi
Lady Angel

Names on this list aren't necessarily scumreads, so much as, "everyone not on this list, I townread to some extent". (I can give a proper reads list once home.)

Would prefer to gladiate from this list, and if you have a strong townread in it, please explain in detail.
As soon as possible, I will reciprocate with why they aren't for me.

[mastina]

I agree, Mastina, but I guess I was thinking we flashwagon someone and then it's accepted that they are the target for your ability

I like your list but think you should take Maid off it and put Gamma Emerald on it

I can explain why Gamma is off (well, mostly recap it, since my reason hasn't changed much), can you highlight why Maid's off for you?

And, yes, I do intend to gladiate the lead Lynch candidate.

[mastina]

Just b/c today is fairly likely to end in a no lynch doesn't mean town shouldn't be trying. Also should be wanting to use your ability ASAP.

Sure! We should be trying. And I will be using it.

Which is precisely why I posted

the thing you quoted me on

.

BTW my lynch list is:
Maid Café
NicoRobin
Chickadee
Titus
Kuroi
Lady Angel

Names on this list aren't necessarily scumreads, so much as, "everyone not on this list, I townread to some extent". (I can give a proper reads list once home.)

Would prefer to gladiate from this list, and if you have a strong townread in it, please explain in detail.

This list isn't all scumreads, but

does

contain scumreads, and nobody on this list is a townread. This is my preferred gladiate pool, the pool I feel is most likely to hit scum.

I'll use the gladiate at about the 24 hour mark on the top wagon.

Speaking of wagoning tho:
VOTE: Kuroi.

It's probably gone under the radar to everyone but myself but maid switched from a decent looking RVS push on me to TRing me when that hydra is probably the only slot in the game which I can reliably say would recognise my town meta without metadiving me
I don't see why they'd switch out that read if they were being lurky scum

Um.
That sounds precisely like something which makes them scum?

[mastina]

Just b/c today is fairly likely to end in a no lynch doesn't mean town shouldn't be trying. Also should be wanting to use your ability ASAP.

Sure! We should be trying. And I will be using it.

Which is precisely why I posted

the thing you quoted me on

.

BTW my lynch list is:
Maid Café
NicoRobin
Chickadee
Titus
Kuroi
Lady Angel

Names on this list aren't necessarily scumreads, so much as, "everyone not on this list, I townread to some extent". (I can give a proper reads list once home.)

Would prefer to gladiate from this list, and if you have a strong townread in it, please explain in detail.

This list isn't all scumreads, but

does

contain scumreads, and nobody on this list is a townread. This is my preferred gladiate pool, the pool I feel is most likely to hit scum.

I'll use the gladiate at about the 24 hour mark on the top wagon.

Basically what I mean by this is, you're accusing me of not trying when

literally quoting the post where I was trying

.

[mastina]

Speaking of that post tho:
Ginngie
Nero Cain
Vaxkiller
Vecna
jjh927
Gamma Emerald
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)
randomidget
Porkens
Nosferatu
Skygazer
Invisibility
Whemestar
Lady Angel
KuroiXHF
Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
Titus
Nicorobin
Chickadee

This would be about where I am reads-wise right now.

It's a little more hazy near the bottom, but at the top, that order is pretty set in stone.

[mastina]

(Innocent Children may be one notch higher tho.)

[mastina]

How? They developed a read in a way that makes a great deal of sense as per the timings and lines up with the two of them having talked about reads

They went from an easily faked RVS push on you, to a read which they'd have regardless of their alignment. You are a fairly universal townread, and as you yourself said: they are one of the few players who you'd expect to have a good read on you.

If they didn't, it'd be a red flag, yes?

So it looks like scum making a lackluster contribution.

[mastina]

Speaking of that post tho:
Ginngie
Nero Cain
Vaxkiller
Vecna

jjh927
Gamma Emerald
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)

randomidget
Porkens
Nosferatu
Skygazer
Invisibility

Whemestar

Lady Angel
KuroiXHF
Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
Titus
Nicorobin
Chickadee

This would be about where I am reads-wise right now.

It's a little more hazy near the bottom, but at the top, that order is pretty set in stone.

BTW. This is the approximate separation, aside from the bottom where it gets more fuzzy in order. Top, conftown; then, strong town; decent town; Wheme is weak town; below is null to scum.

[mastina]

How? They developed a read in a way that makes a great deal of sense as per the timings and lines up with the two of them having talked about reads

They went from an easily faked RVS push on you, to a read which they'd have regardless of their alignment. You are a fairly universal townread, and as you yourself said: they are one of the few players who you'd expect to have a good read on you.

If they didn't, it'd be a red flag, yes?

So it looks like scum making a lackluster contribution.

I was far from universal at that point bc people were still scum reading me for the reasons in their rvs push lmao

You were obvtown from your very first post, and only more obviously so with the posts following.

Continuing to push you off of self-evidently stupid, flawed reasons would have been scummy as hell.

[mastina]

Then why did you lock town ginngie

Oh wait yeah it's ginngie

Exactly. Actions aren't universal. The same thing town from one player is a scumclaim for a different one. Vice versa, too.

It was proof Ginngie was town. Doesn't make it any less scummy as hell for someone like Maid Café.

[mastina]

We have <24 hours.
Mastina, do the thing

Checking the votecount now and doing it once I confirm I'm doing it on the right person.

[mastina]

Wait wtf

RC promised that this game wouldn't feature Ginngie faking guilties on town and if we believe Mastina then there's literally a Ginngie role that fakes guilties on town

Why do you think my picks were Ginngie and NicoRobin in the first place?

I picked them specifically because he said that, so I was wondering what he'd do if I made my picks exclusively one of them.

[mastina]

Who specifically is being referenced in this post?

The persons we were having a conversation about?

[mastina]

KuroiXHF (6): Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, jjh927, Innocent Children, Porkens, Mastina
Porkens (3): randomidget, Titus, KuroiXHF
Mastina (3): Maid Cafe, Nicorobin, Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald (2): Vaxkiller,

Wh4t

Vecna (2): Whemestar, Ginngie
Maid Cafe (1): Chickadee
Innocent Children (1): Sora
Nosferatu (1): Skygazer
Skygazer (0):
Titus (0):
Ginngie (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Vaxkiller (0):
Whemestar (0):
Chickadee (0):
Invisibility (0):
Nicorobin (0):
jjh927 (0):
Rylai and Lina (0):
randomidget (0):

Not Voting: Vecna, Shiro, Invisibility, Lady Angel

With 21 alive it's 12 to lynch.

VOTE: CHICKADEE

VOTE: gamma?

VOTE: Titus

Also VOTE: Chick

VOTE: mastina

So:

KuroiXHF (4): Nosferatu, Innocent Children, Porkens, Mastina
Porkens (3): randomidget, Titus, KuroiXHF
Mastina (3): Maid Cafe, Nicorobin, Nero Cain
Chickadee (3): Vaxkiller, Wh4t, WhemeStar
Gamma Emerald (1): Skygazer
Vecna (1): Ginngie
Maid Cafe (1): Chickadee
Innocent Children (1): Sora
Titus (1): jjh927
Not Voting: Vecna, Shiro, Invisibility, Lady Angel

If I did the math right.

Not much of a majority and majority only by my vote, but majority all the same.

I have a guilty on KuroiXHF.

(Yes, that's how I activate the gladiate; I announce a guilty on my target.)

[mastina]

A guilty has been declared!

A Story Revisited

Votecount 1.73:

KuroiXHF (0):
Mastina (0):

Not Voting: Vecna, Sora, Shiro, Invisibility, Lady Angel, Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, jjh927, Innocent Children, Porkens, Mastina, Skygazer, Vaxkiller,

Wh4t

, Chickadee, Whemestar, Ginngie, Maid Cafe, Nicorobin, Nero Cain, randomidget, Titus, KuroiXHF

With 21 alive it's 12 to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2018-09-27 04:00:00).

Deadline has been extended to a minimum of 48 hours.

…WELL THEN.
VOTE: No Lynch.

[mastina]

Kinda regret not going for Chickadee, now. Kuroi was in my lynch list, but wasn't really a scumread; I shoulda just gone for Chickadee.
But OH WELL. What's done is done; there's always tomorrow.

[mastina]

I mean, true her "i'll use my ability on who the majority of players want dead!" is a bit LAMIST but I'd like to know what you are thinking Gin.

LAMIST implies that it's something done for towncred, rather than done on simple principle, for policy. Gladiating the lead lynch is the only usage of my power which isn't dictating the lynch. If I gladiated a vanity wagon or even a player with no votes, I'd be controlling the lynch.

This is the same reason I waited until just before deadline. Gladiating earlier in the day would lock us into one option, where by waiting, a better one can present itself.

There's no towncred to be had in doing what is, frankly, the ONLY appropriate action.

[mastina]

VOTE: No lynch
Let's not be stupid
Mastina is town and we're doing this every day

I DO need to be lynched EVENTUALLY in order to verify my results are legitimate. But that should be the day before our earliest lylo. Worst case scenario of six scum, that's 13 alive as lylo, so I gladiate and am lynched at the 15/16 player mark. Agreed?

[mastina]

I mean, true her "i'll use my ability on who the majority of players want dead!" is a bit LAMIST but I'd like to know what you are thinking Gin.

LAMIST implies that it's something done for towncred, rather than done on simple principle, for policy. Gladiating the lead lynch is the only usage of my power which isn't dictating the lynch. If I gladiated a vanity wagon or even a player with no votes, I'd be controlling the lynch.

This is the same reason I waited until just before deadline. Gladiating earlier in the day would lock us into one option, where by waiting, a better one can present itself.

There's no towncred to be had in doing what is, frankly, the ONLY appropriate action.

There's no town cred in going with the flow and doing what the majority want? Get out of here with that bullshit.

Correct, there is absolutely none.

Maybe it'll help you if I explain it this way:
If a player dictates the lynch, they should have the competency to justify their tyranny; their reads must be good enough to warrant that they be followed.
Do you disagree with that?

Of course not; it's self evident. If you control the lynch, you damn well better be good enough where doing so is not a mistake. This, we can agree on, yes?

Okay.
So we agree that to dictate the lynch, it requires competency. With this established.

I am a player who is only situationally competent, at best. Overall I am thoroughly mediocre, no better than random and perhaps even worse than random, especially at this early stage of the game.

Do you disagree with my self assessment? Because I think that it's fairly reasonable to say that I am not that good; my poor track record speaks for itself.

Okay.
So we've now established that I am not competent.

Well then. What happens when you combine both of these together? The obvious: because dictating the lynch requires competency, and I am not that competent, the conclusion is simple; I should not be dictating the lynch.

So it then follows.
If I don't dictate the lynch, who does?

The town. Self evidently so. It's a no duh type thing.

Conclusion. If I use my power. I use it on the person who the town dictates.

Simple.

Now, can you honestly say that you disagree with any of what I have said?

Because if not. Then my decision is quite self explanatory. Not done for towncred; done because it is the only appropriate usage of the role.

[mastina]

chickadee nyceee scumclaim

Also, this.

[mastina]

So this game was actually heavily flavour driven in its development and I... didn't write a no lynch flavor.

TFW the mod mod-confirms that your role was meant as a troll role and was never designed to actually have utility in the game.

Mastina/Ginngie - can either or both of you please elaborate why it is ok with both of you that Mastina has this strong of a read on Ginngie while the latter pretty much had like 3 posts when the read was formulated? Why isnt ginngie somewhat suspicious about how easy it went, especially considering Ginngie is playing a whole different type of game here than she usually is, and has way lower activity levels. What in those little posts was enough to get that strong a read that allowed the read to be above towncleared Vax?

Ginngie is town because her posts screamed town. Three posts may not be enough when Ginngie is playing normally, but with Ginngie playing the way she is this game, I'd have only needed one for the read.

So that also answers the second half. It is

specifically

because

this game is a whole different type of game than normal for her, that I was able to get the read as easily as I did. She has specific alignment indicators which are usually not triggered immediately; this game, she triggered them immediately.

Who is scum gin?

Chickadee, of course.

VOTE: Chickadee.

[mastina]

Health update:
Because the doctor basically didn't believe that I had been feverish for 4 weeks (which, by now, is either 5.5 or 6.5 weeks, forgot what week it started exactly), I decided to get a portable thermometer for data collection purposes, to provide proof on a return visit.

First time I caught it was Monday, at 100.1°.
Tuesday and Wednesday, I got readings of 98.5 and 98.9°. (I forget which day was which reading.)

Those may seem a bit high (I actually don't know what the normal human body temperature actually is, so maybe that is normal, maybe not), but I know that my family genetics mean that my normal healthy temperature is a little bit higher than the average human body temperature, so even if those temperatures are high for someone else, I don't consider them feverish for me.

But today I got an unambiguous and undeniably feverish reading of 99.8°. Granted, that's a low-grade fever, but it still IS a fever.

Aside from alternating between burning up and freezing (which is annoying, but livable), my sickness mostly is manifesting right now in sapping my stamina. (AKA, the thing that I already have only a low amount of, which Mafia drains faster than anything else.)

I AM fighting back. I am taking a Vitamin C supplement, which is 125% the daily value. I am also taking a multivitamin which has that same 125% DV of Vitamin C (so basically, my body is getting more Vitamin C than it could ever possibly use, to the point where it's even wasteful).

Said multivitamin also has Vitamin D, plus the Bs, and so on and so forth. I'm also drinking whole milk before bed. (Also, not relevant to sickness, but I take a fiber supplement as well.)

Every day I work, I also drink Green Tea when they have it. (Which I understand is supposed to be the healthiest for fighting sickness?) Admittedly they often don't, mostly having Herbal tea, Black Tea, and Lipton tea (and of those, I really have no clue which are better; I tend to grab 2 herbal, 1 black, and 1 Lipton), but I am drinking it when I can.

I am hydrating myself constantly and am resting frequently. I am even eating lunches at work, too, so I get food a plenty, plus I listen to my body to give it the nutrients it asks for.

I really don't think that I can do more than what I already am. Open to suggestions tho.
For the game: I'll probably not post today, but I'll manage either tomorrow or Saturday.

[mastina]

BTW am at hospital. Not for ME, mind you (bad as I am, I'm not THAT bad…yet), but my entire family is here visiting my dad. We're having our family night here, complete with a film! (Albeit with a lot more commercials.)

I normally post during said time, but I obviously don't have the desktop I do.

I'll post when I can, probably tomorrow.

[mastina]

Btw, small warning. I'm physically feeling pretty okay right now, but mentally my mindset at the moment is, "I need to do this because I promised I would, but I want to get it done as quickly as I can so I can do other things", aka, a kinda more depressed mindset, so if you want more from me: call me out, directly question me, etc.

Ok boys talk to me here.

im all man baby

This probably does not have the connotation you wanted it to have, unless you meant to say that you're a manchild. (Commas! They can change a sentences meaning.)

I'd like both Titus' and Mastina's input on Nosferatu here. A comparison with lynch the wolves is what im looking for mostly since thats my only beacon of comparison.

Nosferatu wasn't town in Lynch the Wolves but wasn't scum, either--this makes it a poor point of reference. You can use Nosferatu's play near endgame as a reference because at that point Nosferatu had deduced he was town and was therefore playing like it, but his early game he was playing not-so-town-mindset.

That having been said: I am of the opinion this is Nosferatu's towngame, having seen Nosferatu in a fair share of recent games beyond just Lynch the Wolves. If you wanted more specifics, I honestly wouldn't be able to describe it; it's something that I kinda

feel

, but can't figure out how to explain. Call it gut if you must though I wouldn't. Which contrasts with this:

Can you be a bit more specific as to what it is in ginngie's play that screams town as u put it? What are the indicators? Because these type of statements can be made at any time about any person

Can I be more specific, yes. I can. But with respect: given that this is Ginngie we're talking about. A player I have a very, very long, established track record of soulreading. I would prefer not to and just have you trust me when I say that she's town.

I like Titus for town here. I also really felt that last Beeboy post sounded very towny.

Hard disagree on both accounts.

NicoRobin, how useful do you feel rn

Speaking of Nico, I forgot to mention she moved from one of my main scumspects to being among my strongest townreads. The thing I was looking for, she displayed to an extent which I don't think she's capable of faking as scum.

maid/jj/gin/R&L-We'll see how much scum that is.

Maid's scum but nobody else in that list is.

[mastina]

I think lurk Mastina is scum Mastina.

I have more towngames lurking than I do towngames active; I have more scumgames active than I do scumgames lurking. That doesn't make lurking a towntell, by any means, but it has a damn good reason behind it. I pride myself in good scumplay, and lurking isn't good scumplay. The proof is in my wiki; games which would otherwise be marked as 5-star scumgames, I dock myself on points for, because, "Unfortunately, I wasn't active".

Lurking is easy. Lurking is not in any way proof of skill. Lurking is not something I would intentionally do. But like I said, lurking's also not a towntell. The reason why, is because there are plenty of lurking scumgames in spite of my desire to not lurk, and plenty of active towngames in spite of my tendency to get in lulls. That's because lurking isn't an alignment-tell, but a mindset-tell. When I am lurking, it is because I am not in a good mindset.

I have been sick for over a fucking month. Still am. I'm feeling

better

today, but I am still undeniably sick, as shown by my cough. YOU try being sick for a whole month and see how it affects your will to post in games. I will contribute when I can, as much as I can. The amount I contribute will meet the minimum standard for what's acceptable, albeit done mostly in intermittent bursts where there's a large period of inactivity followed by a short period of hyper-activity. That's as much as I can promise, because that's the extent of my capabilities right now.

If I could do more than that, then you'd see me actually doing more than that, but you may note that this is my only game right now. (In fact, I was even planning on using an alt in the near-future, but have put that off because I'm in no shape to use it.)

Also, where on earth did Mastina go?

The same place I have been going: away from mafiascum, to rest and recover. This is a sitewide thing, as you'll note that most of my visits to the site have coincided with posts here, and there's a distinct lack of visits to the site where I was posting elsewhere yet not here. I make it a point to try and keep you informed.

I usually am phoneposting nowadays, but when I am phoneposting I can't multiquote. Since I need to multiquote in order to properly provide content for this game, that means I usually can only do so at work, so most of my posts are "hey I'm at work, can't post now but here's where I can post". (And then, on the phone, I do things I CAN do on the phone--which saves me time. If I do the things I can do on the phone, then I don't have to waste my time doing those things on the desktop, and can instead do the things I can only do on my desktop. Makes sense, yes?)

y not replace out so u can like rest and not play?

Because replacing out is against my beliefs. In all of my time as a player, since returning from my first hiatus, I have asked to be replaced a grand total of once, maybe twice, and for reasons unrelated to activity--due to a level of toxicity so extreme I simply couldn't stand it and outright told the mod that I was leaving the game.

Which says something, since my definition of toxicity is much different than most peoples' and I tolerate a ton I frankly shouldn't. But aside from those instances, I've never asked to be replaced. I have, on rare occasions, failed to meet activity standards and been force-replaced for "flaking", once or twice. I have, on a few occasions, been compromised by having information I wasn't meant to have and thus necessitated a force-replace.

But I've never asked for a replacement, and I never will. I swore an oath to that effect, that I would never again be replaced. It's stubbornness, it's prideful, buthey, pride's my greatest sin, so I'll own up to it. I'll never willingly replace out, not for something silly as health.

Of course. I also know that just prod-dodging through the game is a terrible thing to do; I've done that before and directly ruined a game as a result (if not more than one), and while I never swore an OFFICIAL oath to that effect (because I knew it was a promise I might not be able to keep, especially given it could contradict the existing oath), I made an unofficial one where I said that I'd never just eternally prod-dodge, and would provide content regardless of how bad things got.

So why would I need replacement if I am giving sufficient levels of content? If you think I am not, like I said. Call me out on it, and engage me. I work really, really well with direct, one-on-one engagements, where I can hash things out and explain things. But if I am giving sufficient levels of content, then there's no problem to be had.

I'm probably gonna replace out
I literally just have no breathing room with studying

Please don't. <3

You can do the same thing I do--in fact, you can do it even better than I can; I actually take some cues from

you

with my posting habits these days. (The student has, quite literally, become the master, in that field!) Just give what you can, when you can, and if it's not good enough, well, someone will find a way to fix it.

First question: is mastina town?
Next questions: I have {GE, Sky, Porkens, Ginngie, Nero Cain, jjh, randomidget} as town.

I am obviously biased in knowing the answer to the first question, but I can still help you find the answer to it all the same, objectively, via providing input on the second:
Literally every name you mentioned as town, is in my townbloc. (So's your slot, by the way.)
From that, you can judge as you'd like.

Nero is poking too many things with a stick.

While that is a good way to ensure that none of those things get the amount of poking they deserve, the strategy has merit and is nothing out of the normal.

god damn it, i am town. i demand a re roll.

This is what scum would post

Yes indeed, and if I move my vote from Chickadee it'll be onto Firebringer.

[mastina]

she has a blind spot to reading u.

Could not be more hilariously wrong; Ginngie is the player I can read better than any other player on site. Ginngie has a blind spot to reading me, but it is

not

mutual.

mastina is town and i am sad.

Proof that Firebringer is scum:
If Firebringer were town, he wouldn't care about me being town; he would lynch me without giving a damn about it.

[mastina]

convince me of titus scum. i am open minded to scumreads right now. really in the market for some tbh.

this seems like a interesting wagon. how u doing nosferatu?

Good evidence Firebringer and Titus are scumbuddies btw.

It's an interesting wagon for sure. I'm waiting to see what happens with it. I don't have Titus sorted one way or the other yet. I find it difficult to read them generally.

A good case for Chickadee and Titus to be scumbuddies as well.

Not to mention how the Chickadee-Firebringer interactions reek of being scum-scum.

[mastina]

also don't act like you can read me mastina

Oh I can't.
But I can read beeboy and MariaR who you replaced and they were playing to their scum metas, sooooooooooooo. Don't need to!

[mastina]

It'd be a little bit remise if I didn't do mafia content on my ten year anniversary, so I will contribute once home from counseling, which is after work.

[mastina]

(For the curious, you have a fair idea of my age approximately by knowing that I joined when I was a teenager. That was 10 years ago, so I am 23-29. In that range.)

[mastina]

Monday, it was physical health taking a turn for the worse.
Tuesday, it was mental health taking a turn for the worse.
Today, it's my computer's health taking a turn for the worse.

Right now, I know more or less where the problem

is

. It's Windows Explorer. Right now, I can't use the start menu and alllllll the icons on the bar aren't working and when I hover my mouse over the bar I get a blue spinny wheel of doom. No matter how many times or how many different ways I restart Explorer though, the problem persists.

So, temporarily out of commission while I figure out how the HECK I am supposed to fix this since most of the advice I find involves, "Use the start menu to do this" (can't, start menu won't come up!), the numerous restart tricks for explorer that I've already done a dozen times, or at the extreme: "Make a backup of your computer just in case, and do this incredibly risky thing".

[mastina]

(I lowkey suspect my mom borked the computer when using it; she mentioned that when using "Bing"--which I assume refers to Edge--new windows kept popping up indefinitely.)

[mastina]

Alright, problem fixed and I'm home from work, so posting shortly!

[mastina]

@Mastina, I really do hope you feel better, but for your own sake, as well as for the game, please replace out. Take the time you need to get better, and be gentle with yourself.

Sorry, but my strongest scumread asking me to replace out is incentive to stay in the game as far as I'm concerned.

Also as a sidenote: A townrole that is basically a cop, that cannot be roleblocked.....would be really really op if we have any type of saving role that can keep Mastina alive. Its itching me the wrong way

You already have mod-confirmed proof that RadiantCowbells did not intend for my role to be used this way. He designed it as a clearly troll-role, given to someone who submitted a clearly troll pick, giving me what I deserved/asked for. He honestly, genuinely, legitimately didn't expect it to actually have utility.

That having been said. There are any number of methods which could counter my role. We already know this game is heavy on vote-relating abilities. NicoRobin's a limited triple-voter. Rylai and Lina claimed a conditional doublevote IN ADDITION TO their winning-any-gladiate ability. Kuroi said he'd survive the lynch. jjh has claimed a voting-related ability. I think that I'm missing some, too; you get the idea.

Even if none of those are scum (which is possible, though I am townreading all of them), those go to demonstrate that there can be scum with voting-related abilities. An easy go-to example would be a scum executor. Less-likely, a scum role which disables the no-lynch/forces a plurality lynch. Probably more, but you get the idea.

D2, when most players have not roleclaimed, is not the day to judge a role and said, "I hate it, don't think it's real".

Save that for like D5, after most players have roleclaimed.

Im really hating on this mastina ability by now. So freaking annoying that noone really has to take any ownership of any of their votes.

Not so.

I've made it clear I will only gladiate the player with the most votes, and unless L-1 with intent to lynch and consent of the town to do so, at deadline no less. Because of that, votes still hold meaning. Vanity voters/no voters are avoiding responsibility and people on wagons are still accountable because they are effectively deciding the (no-)lynch.

first of all you made arguments for why i was scum based on my posting than contradict yourself by saying my predecessor is who you were reading.

Who said anything about them being mutually exclusive? They're both true.

Maid Cafe was scum, and I was scumreading them.

You are scum, and I am scumreading you.

I can't read you, but that doesn't change the fact I developed a scumread on you, independent of the scumread I had on Maid Cafe.

VOTE: firebringer this is pure bullshitting scum trying to buddy town

Yep! Pretty much.

So why aren't we lynching Chickadee today, or at least gladiating her?

A good question!

You may note where my vote is.

[mastina]

Votecount.

Lies.

If I'm gonna do shit people need to react to my shit so I can have more shit to do

I work the same way btw. Reason I call for engagement. People engage me, I talk; they don't, I tend to not.

but it's assuming that Mastina was even considered to be a kill last night.

Given that everyone was loudly broadcasting.
"Protectives, be on mastina last night".
Yeah, uh.
No shit I didn't die last night?

You'd frankly had more reason to be concerned if I DID die last night.

Use that ability of yours on Porkens

I would prefer to use my ability to get a guilty on scum rather than an innocent on town. You want Porkens clear, sure, okay, I'll clear Porkens, but not unless he's the lead wagon near deadline. (With deadline frozen, that's "not any time soon".) Or at L-1 with intent to hammer, but good luck getting that kind of support given there's enough people who have the experience to know he's town, so.

You're a claimed spot with a day ability, and it's kind of holding the game hostage.

A fine narrative, except given my stated intention on how I'll use it (only gladiating the lead lynch, near deadline or at L-1 with intent to hammer and consent) along with people even toying with the idea of "fuck that ability, let's just lynch without it", quite self-evidently not the case.

Skygazer vs. NSG is lurker vs lurker goodness. Lets see who can lurk the best.

It's also town vs. town goodness.

[mastina]

Also, Mastina, pretty please - keep real life stuff in these games to a minimum.

If you have time to write long pretty blog-type posts detailing your personal life, spent that little time on actually giving us thoughts on the game.

There's a difference between phoneposting a blog-type entry and phoneposting game content.

Hint: one is easy; one is theoretically possible but pragmatically incredibly difficult.

As I have already stated, most of the times I give said posts, I am in fact phoneposting; most of the time I am giving content posts, I am on my desktop at home.

Mastina, when you get to this post sometime next year or whenever you're caught up, just gladiate the largest wagon whenever 1/2 deadline hits.

Deadline's frozen.

Also, my ability gives 48 hours' extension...when used under that amount of time, so.

Don't have reason to use it right now.

I will when I do tho!

Mastina herself has claimed it's a bit of a lie/there's something else to reveal about her role.

I don't recall saying that.

I recall laying out my policy on roleclaiming, what I do as town and what I do as scum and what I don't do as town/scum.

I don't recall stating I was making any lie.

anyway I basically have a carbon copy of the second ability, but it can't be used in LYLO/MYLO
I considered not claiming it but if Titus already claimed it, then me being furtive about it would be weird
And if Titus didn't claim it, shame on Titus, because this ability isn't really useful without town knowing about it.
Heck, in my game town knew about it and developed a SUPER SECRET messaging system and it still didn't help them, really.

Hey so remember when I said, "scum could have an ability which would counter my gladiate"?

This sounds like an ability which could counter my gladiate.

i do believe the rl reasons for mastina's absence so to a certain extent id like to keep her around until those clear up because i get the whole not wanting to replace out thing

I'd consider it a scumclaim if you didn't, frankly, given that you have the knowledge that I have in fact been denying entering games--even ones I am invited to--at least in part due to real life.

[mastina]

Mastina can you expand on nsg townread? I'm not strongly scumreading nsg independently, but Nancy Drew predecessor did not seem to be doing Nancy Drew townie things so I was thinking that slot might be scum.

Well we seem to have a fundamental disagreement then because the Nancy Drew slot was doing plenty of town Nancy Drew things to me, towning it up to become one of my stronger townreads; northsidegal has done nothing to diminish that and in her own way has kinda sorta strengthened it.

Also can you summarize why your vote is on scum?

Because it's on Chickadee.

[mastina]

um mastina could you gladiate soon

Sure can!

I have a guilty on Chickadee.

[mastina]

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here.

I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

She CAN'T have a result yet. I've allowed it, so she will get one, but she doesn't have one RIGHT NOW.

I'm not voting her though, because I am 100% positive she's just town fakeclaiming. This is PRECISELY the kind of stunt she'd pull.

Also, pizza is delicious.

[mastina]

Also wtf she's blatantly scum I can give you like a stupid number of reasons backed up by rigorous meta in spite of the fact that she flakes out of a bunch of games

And for every example you give, I can show three examples of her as town.

She's town, trust me.

Annoying as fuck, but this is her town self. I can go into more detail when not phoneposting.

[mastina]

Coulda sworn--and had planned for--the 48 hour mark being tomorrow.
By that I mean, not able to post tonight, but since I was planning on posting tomorrow even without a prod I'll be doing so.

[mastina]

BTW at work so the soonest you'll get a content post from me is in over 3 hours, but I'd like to reiterate.
If you think Nico is scum, ask yourself, "how does this make sense coming from scum?".
You might default to, "scum caught in a lie, backtracking"…
…Except. While that may work as an explanation for some scummers. It doesn't work as an explanation for NICO. Quite the opposite, it's the very proof that she's town. You might struggle to understand how it makes sense coming from town, but serious question.

How many games have you played?
In how many of those games, was there a town player whose actions made no sense, but they were still town?

You're outright ignorant or lying if it hasn't happened in at least a third of your games.

It's a little difficult to show because she has a dozen past accounts, but I can show Nico's quite extensive history of this sort of thing.

You want real scum?

Try here.
VOTE: Varsoon.
Would vote Firebringer slot if I remembered the name of who holds it, but this works just as well.

[mastina]

I never left the game mastina, so you going to replace our or what

Nope! I will however move my vote from one scum to another.
VOTE: Firebringer.
Could still vote for V tho.
Also Lady Angel.

I realize that there's more than 3 scum, but I'd need to do a readslist and unpack my thoughts in order to name the other 2/3. Some players I can tell you aren't scum, e.g. jjh, Jingle, Nico, but I can't remember all the players in the game so. Can't give a read on someone who I don't even remember is in the game!

But right now. Since a top townread is being wagoned, my priority is dismantling that wagon so that we can vote for the REAL scum.

On that note. Since I'm phoneposting, there are some things that I can't do, e.g. link to games. (In particular, I want to link to Lynch the Wolves, because it is hands down bar none the best possible reference for understanding why Nico is town this game. Jingle may be able to guess what I'm going for here, as it's both a town and scum example simultaneously.)

But what I CAN do. Is explain where I am coming from.

Early in the game, I scumread Nico, because she was playing to her scum meta: lurking, doing nothing. Near the end of D1, she started aggressively pushing me. A promising sign, because she uses Burden of Proficiency on me; she knows that I can read her better than any other player on site, so my scumreading a town-Nico, in her eyes, would be a scumclaim from me.

It is not beyond her ability to fake, but it was a step in the right direction. Then you get her D2 antics, which ARE beyond her capacity tofake. A certain level of stubborn indignance, where she pushes hard on ideas that drive people crazy and want to policy lynch her.

But as Jingle so rightly pointed out. We can't policy Lynch this game and even if we could, I'd never abide by it because I am vehemently against the idea. We aim to Lynch scum. Not people who are annoying.

The town motivation lies in her being a particularly quirky human, prone to certain behaviors, including misreading roles and/or fakeclaiming. It's obviously always detrimental especially in games combining both, but it is a hard, solid towntell no matter how much you don't like it.

[mastina]

Your analysis is faulty, and too simplistic. Its comparable to the standard creature read, where people are just being lazy and looking at activity level (although granted this goes further, but as I said, not 100% town indicative).

My explanation is faulty and simplistic, my reasoning is neither. I was phoneposting and trying my best to be succinct about it, so I couldn't fully unpack it. Nico can be active as scum, sure.

She can also be inactive as town, too! Heck, that's common enough where she's been replaced before even though her flaking is something which happens MORE OFTEN when she's scum.

But I didn't say she was town because she was posting.
I didn't say she was town because of the crazy.
I didn't say she was town for a death tunnel.
I said she was town because of the unique combination of all of them, and specifically how she interacted with ME.

If her interactions were with YOU, then they wouldn't be town.

But her interactions with ME are what make her town.

Player history is important, and I am telling you that my history with her, and her history with me, is such that when you overlap the two, there is a nigh-soulread dynamic.

I have never read NicoRobin wrong. Across all her accounts, in dozens of games, I have always had the correct read on her. What's more--she knows it, too. She knows I have had the correct read on her every game, and she thus expects it of me to be accurate. When she first started getting engaged in the game, it was with an OMGUS scumread on me, her main attacker...but based around a WELL-JUSTIFIED burden of proficiency argument that's

not

fallacious, that IS valid.

If you assume she is town, then you can also assume that me reading her as scum is a sign that I am scum. Of course, my read changed later on, when I had a better grounding in the game and she had provided content (her lack of content was the main contributing factor to said scumread), but her initial suspicion on me was from a place I can understand as totally reasonable.

NicoRobin also has the bad habit of, when getting a scumread, not letting it go. Yes, she can do that as scum as you note, but she also does it as town so it is not a scumtell. She is highly-omgusy as town, and has NUMEROUS past games which demonstrate this. I can highlight any number of her past games which show how she attacks the people who scumread her. Look at her Porkens stance and her stance on me and her stance on jjh and Jingle, and then compare them to, say, her stance on Wisdom and then OnTheMark in this game.

That game also contains a tremendous example of Nico changing her claim multiple times. As town.

Check her "we're masons we're not masons we're masons we're not masons" talk there and you'll get what I mean quite quickly. She was all over the place, omgusy, emotional, irrational, and highly anti-town with the shenanigans.

I can read NicoRobin almost as well as I can read Ginngie. It is a borderline-soulread. Nico's attitude here is something where, for her to be scum, you have to go through a series of hoops.
"Okay, she CAN do that thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that different thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that third thing as scum.
And I think that she, as scum, is doing all of them."

Which is an outright violation of occam's razor. The simpler explanation applies.
She CAN do those things as scum--but typically only one at a time in limited doses.
Doing them all at once is simply outside of her scum range altogether. Because the simpler explanation is, while she CAN do those things as scum, she is far FAR more likely to do them as town.

The burden of proof lies on the accuser.

So, what has NicoRobin done that is actually

scum

?

Death-tunneled? She does that as town more than she does it as scum. Not a point against her.
Changed her claim? She does that more as town than she does as scum. (Heck I've personally never seen her change her claim as scum. That doesn't mean she can't, mind you, but that gives you an idea of how infrequent it'd be in that it is a definitive aspect of her towngame.) Not a point against her.

Been active in the game? That is a solid towntell of hers albeit not to Creature levels. (Although given Creature has subverted said tell. Maybe it WOULD be appropriate to call it Creature-leveled, with the understanding of Creature-leveled being the level of Creature right now rather than the level of Creature as is his reputation.) Not a point against her.

The points against her are things which are fine as points to raise against a player in theory, but ignore that this is the reality of NicoRobin we are talking about. They aren't taking in her playstyle, her past games, her meta, her self, into account. It's policy, at best. There's no real reasons for the scumreads on her. None which hold up to scrutiny of those familiar with her to the level I am.

Nico just has a way of getting on your nerves when town, but of still trying her damnedest to gamesolve in spite of this. When you look at how she has attempted to use her role--even if it's imperfect, even if it's flawed, even if she has changed her story--you can see an attempt to use it in the way she sees best.

After all. Common consensus seems to be, "She's really a rolecop, just fudged her claim as scum". What would scum gain by rolecopping, of all people, PORKENS? Porkens is not a threat and not someone who is a high-priority check. What would scum gain by rolecopping SOMEONE WHO HAD ALREADY CLAIMED THEIR FULL ROLE?
If instead you think she's a tracker. What would scum gain from tracking these individuals?

Of course they gain nothing. What does a town player scumreading those individuals gain? A shitload of valuable information to bring forward to the town, which Nico did to the best of her ability in her own way. She's also been providing multiple reads on multiple players. Most of them scumreading her, yes, but she's put clear thought into her process and you can follow where she comes from even if you find her logic flawed.

It doesn't need to be right, and it doesn't need to be perfect, and it doesn't need to be something you agree with. You just need to be able to see how she got from point A to point B. And I am telling you I can do that, have done that, and that she is town.

What made you suddenly start to scumread me now? The fact that I want to lynch Nico, or something else?

You apparently haven't paid attention to my reads the entire game.

You've never stopped being a scumread of mine.

[mastina]

OH NOW I REMEMBER WHY I CAME TO PHONEPOST ORIGINALLY YESTERDAY.
I completely forgot my original purpose for coming to post yesterday.

Vecna, RC told me that he forgot to tell me that I was visited by Beavis, so. Your action did work, RC is just a moron who makes mod errors.

[mastina]

mastina at least acknowledge the gladiate

Why should I?

Jingle is dead on the money. I meant to say something exactly like this:

More to the point, though, mastina isn't the one holding the thread hostage. Note how when we actually reach a lynch consensus, the game goes fast? When mastina gladiated Chick yesterday, it took about a day for 15 No Lynch votes to happen. That gladiate happened less than 48 hours before deadline, with 7 people on the wagon. We would have deadline no lynched without the gladiate. If we actually scumhunt outside of "mastina's role so OP, lets derp flashwagon it and complain and do absofuckinglutely nothing else" we wouldn't have had a game 'held hostage' by a player. We'd have had a game, in which instead of flipping our mislynches stay around and continue talking. It's not rocket science why that's good.

The people 'holding this game hostage' are the people who are refusing to scumhunt and instead focusing on policy lynching one slot.

Varsoon and his incessant complaining about how boring the game is and the OP-ness of said role, has not expressed a single read I can recall on a single other player.
Firebringer is TOWNREADING mastina, and still wants to lynch her because his head is so far up his hateboner's ass that he won't look at any of the other players.
I can't think of a single push you've made.

And you're not the only ones. This isn't the game being held hostage by mastina, this is 21 players sitting in a circle staring at her and being angry when nothing happens.

Do you know how you progress a game of mafia out of shit and stillness? A hint. It isn't fucking policy lynching. It's actually engaging with and sorting the players. And you can't even blame it on activity, because there's plenty of shit to be taking a stand on. Vecna claimed and retracted IC. JJ has been spamming the shit out of the thread. Nico's shit has been around to talk about, even if I personally don't think it's the blinking "I AM SCUM" sign others do. NSG is playing to lurkmeta.

Notice how there's a list of 20 people, and 17 of them are still suspects? I sure as hell do.

But since he did, I have no need to.

I

am not the one holding the game up.

My gladiate

is not the problem with the game.
Stop pretending it is, and we'll get much further.

I have no need to acknowledge the people voting me, because they are pretending that something which isn't a problem, is. That's on them, not on me.

[mastina]

The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

I think there's a flaw in your plan.

It's called
UNVOTE: .

[mastina]

Btw.

For the people who said *I* was holding the game hostage.

This

is what a REAL "holding the game hostage" looks like:

I am going to be imposing a new timer on this game
In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today
The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

He thinks I'd be scumclaiming by using my ability

No, not using your ability.

Doing the very thing the game is accusing ME of doing, with said ability.

Now I happen to think you're still town in spite of that.

But I fully understand where Jingle's coming from here.

Mastina could literally speed this game up but she doesn't care to do so.

Not so.
I absolutely refuse to, on the basis of speeding the game up is incredibly anti-town to do. Yes, dragging things out is also anti-town, I am fully aware of that. But speeding the game up artificially is, and shall ALWAYS be, the worse of the two evils. I would prefer a happy medium but if forced to choose between the lesser of the two, I'll choose the one which gives us the greater amount of time, content, and information to make a more informed decision.

And anybody who thinks otherwise is an absolute moron, because that is just self-evidently the right call to make.

How does mastina hipshooting her gladiates solve thread apathy?
By making people take stances upon which they can be read and interact with each other? Fuck that shit. The problem isn't with mastina. The problem is with the complete lack of anything being done in the thread.

Pretty much.

People think that me hipshooting would make people be forced to take stances?
IN WHAT WORLD DOES THAT LOGIC WORK.
Because that is literally the fucking opposite of what would happen.
By hipshooting, I would be

preventing

people from being forced to take stances. When the only choices are, "Lynch mastina, lynch her innocent, or no lynch", there's no stance to be had. There's no choice to be had. So nobody is held accountable for what they do.
When the choices are, "gladiate this person, gladiate that person, gladiate third third person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this person, don't gladiate at all and lynch that person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this third person", and so on and so forth? You know, like in a normal mafia game?

Suddenly, the stances people hold become something they can and SHOULD be held accountable for.

How do you find scum in a game of mafia?

but I've been pushing my reads and giving my opinions on the game. I'm not the problem.

No argument there.

But you're not who I'm talking about.

Mastina needs to start pressuring ppl.

And why do you think it needs to be me?

Why can't THE TOWN pressure people?

Especially since I have stated multiple times that even if I really don't like it I'll use it on the player THE TOWN dictates?

Answer me that.

Why does it need to be me?

When we had no problem with it being the town on D1.
And when we had no problem with it being the town on D2.
Why, suddenly, on D3, is there the attitude that "the town is helpless here"? Which wasn't the case the prior two days?

^Literally the problem with JJ's role. Now we not only have people not voting because they can't be bothered to play, we also have people not voting because he's threatening to take their voice away from them.

THIS is what removing accountability via your role looks like, and is what I was getting at when I unvoted.

When I said there was a flaw in jjh's strategy, and it's called "unvote", this is what I was getting at. The flaw is that, by him literally telling people that they should be unvoting. He is making it easy for everyone to do exactly that, and thus, not be held accountable for their stances/votes, because they had good reason to not vote.

I want flips that we decide.

Kuroi was a flip we decided.
You were a flip we decided.
Why's this so hard to comprehend?

Mastina want to gladiate me?

Considering you're a townread?

Why no. No, I don't want to gladiate you.

If you were the lead wagon, I

would

, but I wouldn't be happy when doing it because it'd not be what I WANTED to do.

what does ari scumplay look like

Not like this.
The lazy-man's version is "he posts, he's town; he doesn't, he's scum", but obviously, not that simple; there's nuances to it.

like I'm a pretty firm believer in Mastina should be doing more than relying on the town to do shit for her.

Oh you mean like the scumhunting I've already done?

I mean.

Yeah.

I haven't done as much as I'd prefer, there's more points I'd like on why Varsoon and Firebringer are scum in particular (it has to do more or less with how they are cruising off of the excuse of "roles invalidate us doing anything" even when that is self-evidently not the case), but I've given plenty.

Do need a proper readslist tho.

[mastina]

Ginngie/Jingle: This slot is so town that they are more town than the conftown. I can soulread Ginngie and this was her towngame through and through. I also have reason to believe she wouldn't have replaced out as scum. Furthermore, since Jingle has come in, this read has only gotten stronger. While my ability to read Jingle is far from perfect, everything he's given has been

good

.

KuroiXHF
Chickadee: Conftown needs no explanation.

NicoRobin: This is Nico's towngame through and through. To understand this, you have to understand her long game history.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town. (Mixed with me, AS HER HYDRA PARTNER. Mind you. If you don't come away from a hydra with a player having a better idea of how to read that player...you're an absolute shit player because hydraing is an incredibly intimate, personal experience that exposes you to their thoughts on a deeper level.)
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town, mixed with Nero Cain no less so he should have familiarity with her, too.
This is Nico as half-town, half-3p. I'd treat it as a towngame though.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.
This is Nico as town.


This is Nico as town. Same account...
This is Nico as scum. Notice a difference? I sure do.
This is Nico as scum.

Not even a complete list. This is her towngame, through and through.

Nosferatu/Creature: Nosferatu was playing a town game, although that read was a bit hard for me to explain. Creature here is self-evidently town though, and needs no explanation as to why. It's not just that he's posting. He's posting content. Not as much as I'd prefer, but enough that when coupled with my Nosferatu townread is enough where I'm solidly townreading him.

Nero Cain: This is the whole package of Nero as town. Annoying, but scumhunting. Active, and pushing, aggressive, the whole works. He can fake part of it, but not all of it.

randomidget/Aristophanes: randomidget's posting was town, and Aristophanes has only strengthened that further. Aristophanes is someone who is ridiculously easy to read. He has a certain "charm" to him as town, a charm clearly present this game; Ari as scum is a lot more stilted, artificial, stunted. He's fluent, natural, organic, and active, all incredibly promising signs for a town-him.

Gamma Emerald: Admittedly at this point you get to the spot in my reads list of "this read hasn't really changed much, but also hasn't degraded". In that there's not much which has made me think differently of him. He's not a stronger townread than before, but he's also not a weaker one.

Skygazer: I can probably link you to the towngames/scumgames I've seen from Skygazer that I couldn't at the time this game started to better explain this, but simply put, this is not Skygazer's scumgame at all.

jjh927: jjh is my strongest non-meta read. I mean. Yeah. If I were to use meta, given my reference point for his scumgame is this, I'd call him town from it, but since that's one game with special circumstances I wouldn't put much stock into meta-townreading him for it. I WOULD however, put stock into a townread off of his antics. The things he is doing aren't the best, but I can see the town intention behind them, understand where he's coming from, and while I disagree on the ultimate conclusions quite often, I agree with rather a large amount of what he's said, just not in the key areas he's pushed hardest.

Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)/northsidegal: This was Nancy's towngame, and northsidegal has done nothing to make me think otherwise. In fact, her content was town to me.

Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)/The Meme Men: Rylai and Lina were both playing town and had a role which I felt was incredibly likely to be town. The Meme Men are, admittedly, underperforming tho--I watched the original Meme Man, who by my understanding is half of this hydra, and thought "That's an alt of a player of some degree of skill", yet I'm not really seeing it this game. So this read's a bit weaker than before, but ultimately not reversed; it still holds.

Invisibility: Another "this read hasn't really changed much", though it may have degraded some, since I don't remember why I was townreading Invisibility, but by gut I don't feel Invisibility is scum.

Porkens: Meta loosely indicated town and I liked what Porkens did when doing things, but the disappearance I admit is a bit concerning.

Vecna: When Vecna was around and posting up a storm, that was promising for him being town, but it seems to have faded, and that's a red flag. I still think town especially since I could be misremembering him as absent when he hasn't been (after all, quite possible I've missed content), but it's not impossible he's scum.

Whemestar: Honestly wins the prize for least-changed read. His content is exactly the same as before: it's weakly, loosely, something which looks town, but is just. Really not much. Weakest of my townreads. Given five scum in the game though, probably scum on the logic of, "if I am wrong on any townreads, this is the most likely to be wrong".

Lady Angel: I've not liked anything Lady Angel has given this game, though I admit my scumread here is quite weak, mostly a bit of a BoP-combined-with-PoE scumread, in that I'd expect a town Lady Angel to just be

better

than this and

someone

has to be scum.

Titus/Varsoon: Titus was solidly in her scumgame, and Varsoon has done no differently. The utter lack of content and all-around lack of drive along with the mudslinging, the hiding in the players-not-doing-anything crowd, it's a read I want to explain more but suffice to say, he is not town.

Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)/Firebringer: Maid Cafe was playing to their scumgame even stronger than Titus. BOTH heads were playing to BOTH of their scumgames, and I've seen MariaR and beeboy as scum quite often. Firebringer has done nothing to change that and has actually increased the read, with what he's pushing and when. This is the slot most likely of all to flip scum and who I most want to lynch.

[mastina]

I'd also like to point out that while Nico's longest-lasting account was Yume, she had her original account before that.
Varsoon in particular should be familiar with her in this game given that he referenced how his role PM this game is near-identical to a role he designed from that game.
Another towngame.
Another Nico towngame, also modded by Varsoon no less.
Here's another Nico towngame.
And another Nico towngame.
Here's yet another Nico towngame.
And one more Nico towngame, for good measure.

Nico has VERY strong ingrained tendencies that have lasted for years across accounts.

Which is more likely, jjh?
That you, somehow, MAGICALLY, with your lack of experience, can read her as scum, and that she is a MASTER manipulator of her scumgame so good that

literally every player who knows her

is telling you she's town but no you're so good you saw through it...

...Or that the one time you read her right, you just got lucky, and that what you see most of the time really is what you get, that all the people calling her town have damn good reason to be calling her town and that you are basing your read off of an anomaly rather than the norm?

[mastina]

mastina can you elaborate on the fb/cafe read

Maid Cafe, not a read I can vocalize that easily. Firebringer, look at what he's doing and ask what in it is actually town for a good start.

Everything he's doing is the same as what Varsoon is doing and that's one of the reasons both of them are scum.

Slinging mud everywhere, discrediting people, but not actually scumhunting. Using roles as an excuse not to scumhunt, in spite of the flaws in that viewpoint having been pointed out multiple times. Accusing me of holding the game hostage, when it's been shown quite decisively that *I* am not the one doing that because I have done what the town asked me to do on both D1 and D2 and it was no issue then so suddenly claiming it is an issue D3 is absolute horseshit.

As a start.

[mastina]

I could've sworn I posted yesterday and if not I thought that it was well before the 48 hour mark from the day before, huh.

Obviously, not prepared for posting today, but I have no reason not to, I suppose.

[mastina]

I mean you just linked a fuckton of games without making a point about them

I did make my point. That list wasn't a complete one, as I said. I left out the numerous games where she flaked as both town and scum, but mostly scum. The games I left were ones where I wanted particular traits of hers to be highlighted. Traits she has a STRONG track record of displaying as town, and basically nil track record of displaying as scum.

Things which she

can

do as scum, sure--but as the exception to the general rule where she doesn't do them as scum but does do them as town.

In this playerlist, who do you think scum!Yume would be most concerned about reading her?

Not actually me. Frozen Angel, Shiro, Titus, MariaR, beeboy, going by the original playerlist. (Now admittedly Titus was scum and MariaR/beeboy were also scum, but. FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT.) From the replacements, Jingle and Varsoon. (Again, V's scum, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT.) All of them present a serious credible threat to her.

Now, town-Yume, on the other hand,

does

see me as the player she is most concerned about reading her.

And, yes. A player's concerns about reading can change from alignment. Just because she's concerned about me reading her as town does not mean she'd be concerned about me reading her as scum. And if she

was

concerned? Her answer would be to fucking nightkill me. Not try to manipulate me.

I know Nico's mind and how it works as scum.

Her answer to encountering a scary name player who can read her isn't, "I need to adapt my game to specifically manipulate that player into townreading me".
Her answer to encountering a scary name player who can read her is, "this player needs to die, NOW".

Mastina u already admitted ur not reading me earlier now you want to say your confidence goes up from what I do?

You have a nice way of twisting my words but anyone who goes back to check your story out will see that what I said hasn't changed. The two are not mutually exclusive. My track record of reading you is poor; all the same, your actions have generated a stronger scumread than the already existing one.

[mastina]

i am sick, consider me v/la until its gone or i die.

Speaking of which! Doctor appointment was today. Lots and lots of bloodwork done (four vials I think?), urine test, and an X-ray of my chest, along with a prescription for a new medication that'll hopefully combat the nausea which is hopefully the cause of the lack of appetite which is hopefully the cause of the weight loss.

Won't solve my main problems overnight, but with all of those bloodwork tests done (including one for mono), by this time tomorrow with luck we'll know what it is and be able to treat it accordingly.

I literally can't remember the last time I misread mastina's play outside of GiF's fallout where I started out deathtunnelling her slot's previous occupant and then reversed my read just in time to be nightkilled.

I'm pretty sure there was a game tho.

Something more recent than Inorganic Chemistry at least. (I forget if you were the active head or if that was sthar.)

Word on the street is that scum mastina never gets wagoned

Oh I get

wagoned

, just not to lynch, most of the time. (Usually, when I want to be wagoned. Which is...pretty much most of my scumgames, actually. You'd

think

good scumplay for me would be to want to not be wagoned, but I am actually at my strongest ability as a scum manipulator when I am being wagoned. I don't actually know why. I can tell you plenty of reasons which aren't why, but I can't really put my finger on what makes that state be so magical.)

And when I'm lynched not of my own volition, it is usually much, much further into the game. If I were scum every game, the vast majority of the time I'd be earning the Battle Mage award, is what I mean by that, in that sure I'd get lynched in about 30-40% of those games, but of that 30-40%, only about 10% would be prior to D3 and of that 10% 90% of it would be willingly killing myself.

If you do the math, that means that I can and do get wagoned to a lynch not of my own volition as scum--.3 - .4% of the time. Which is close enough to "never" that it's not much of an exaggeration to say.

(On that note I'm kinda surprised nobody's asked me what I'd be doing differently this game as scum.)

Ok, here's the thing. There are alot of players doing shit. Some of those players are town, some of those players are scum. The few players that ARE being active are either not enough to presure inactive slots and/or are bickering amongst themselves. Your role grants you the authority and power to do that and a town you

SHOULD

be doing that.

Yeah, town should do that--but they should do it without relying on the crutch of a role to do so.

So a failure to do so is not something you can pin blame on me for; it's a collective failure. Am I without blame, no, I am part of the collective, but I am not the entirety of it so stop pretending I am.

why are voting varsoon im sad and confused

Am considering Invisibility as a possible scum to fill the ranks of my scumreads btw.

[mastina]

I think it's concerning that Mastina wasn't online anywhere near to my original deadline

Frankly I thought I made my opinion clear on the matter but then again I thought I posted yesterday when I just got prodded so who knows maybe I didn't.

Then to reiterate-or-state-for-the-first time: I honestly don't give a fuck about your power, and don't see a reason why I should.

I feel you using it would be anti-town. This, I know for a 100% fact I already stated.
I feel like your threat to use it is an actual, legitimate case of holding the game hostage, the very thing people are wrongly accusing me of doing even though my usage of my power is the furthest thing from it. This, I also know I have stated for sure.
But I see no reason I should care about you using it beyond feeling it's a mistake.

Keep in mind I wasn't the one who came up with the idea of gladiating every day--that was you.
So I don't care about using it every day (I feel like it's the most optimal strategy, but I don't care for it to the point where I'll go out of my way to advocate for it); I would be fine with a lynch done the traditional way--it was

your

idea to use it every day, and you were the one who first pointed out why it was mathematically optimal for us to use it every day instead of a traditional lynch.

The question then wouldn't be why would I care so much about my gladiate to go out of my way to use it before you used your ability.
The question would be why you wouldn't care about my gladiate enough that you'd instead use your ability.

I still don't understand your logic for that.

[mastina]

I just wished someone would townclear mastina

I know an amazing power that can do exactly that!

It's called a nightkill. The most OP power of all time, not only giving you a clear of my alignment but also revealing my role down to the last detail!

And I guarantee you one will be used on me sooner or later. (There's no universe where scum never discuss it.)

Her reads feel pretty good but her play today seems pretty bad

I am sick.

I promise you I will be playing better when this is no longer the case.

I am getting answers.
I am starting treatment.
So I will be getting better soon, hopefully.
But I'm not better yet, so I am still sick.

HURT: NicoRobin, Jingle, Aristophanes

Pretty sure you already know mine!
HURT: Firebringer, Varsoon, Lady Angel
HURT WITH A BLADE: Invisibility.

[mastina]

Mastinas role is dumb let’s just kill mastina

Yknow what sure.
HURT WITH A BLADE: WhemeStar.

[mastina]

Do you guys actually want to continue playing this game?

I DO want to play it, but given that I'm sick I wouldn't exactly cry if it were abandoned, since it'd be one less thing to worry about.

Then again given that I went to the doctor (and this time the doctor DID believe me, and I had my family there to cover any details I'd miss), I should be getting better soon so that'd leave me with no need to even restrict myself. So I wouldn't mind, but I'd prefer to play given the main reason I wouldn't mind is a temporary (albeit currently debilitating) condition.

[mastina]

You should probably just gladiate me, given ~48 hours til deadline and me being at L-1 Gladiate wise, mastina.

I'll do it if all the players on the wagon give confirmation they are on it (have they? I don't think so), and if it is hammered, but otherwise, deadline's no concern; my ability adds time to it, you'll recall.

I'd still prefer to use it on V given the choice.

[mastina]

VOTE: Firebringer
Choo-choo

Seems like a plan to me!
VOTE: Firebringer.

[mastina]

Why are you voting me when its clear that if i was fucking scum i would have fucking killed mastina for my own fucking sanity.

Considering in all our games together you've never once nightkilled me when you've been scum?

Why the fuck would you.

My death would actually be evidence you're town because you'd never nightkill me.

[mastina]

So who did you vote last day?

V, naturally. I considered voting Firebringer due to largest scumread and all that but I realized I wouldn't have the support for that to be an anonymous lynch. V, on the other hand, for activating the power would be something that many people would vote and since he was my second-strongest scumread, seemed like the obvious choice.

[mastina]

mastina needs moar votes. she hungers for them

I'm fine with either lynching or ignoring mastina. No Longer will we be held down by her tyrannical rule! XD

Yes and the person who broke that "tyrannical" rule was...

...Which alignment?

Oh right.

Maybe because when I said that the people whining contained scum.

I was fucking right about the people whining containing scum.

[mastina]

Oh right Vecna forgot to mention yes your visit was seen by me.

[mastina]

Seems like a plan to me!
VOTE: Firebringer.

gladiate him when you are ready mastina
-rh

Remember how the person who was most complaining about me refusing to make such a hasty decision flipped scum?
I sure as fuck do.

I wait.

Just like I have been doing.

That is the strategy which has proven itself to work, and the people complaining about it contain scum, so.

[mastina]

Mastina if everyone annoyed at your slow af pace in deciding to gladiate contains scum then I think we have a 10-15 person scum team
-rh

Contains scum != comprised entirely of scum.

There are around 8 players who have complained, give or take a couple.

Of that number, one flipped scum and I am expecting half total to be scum, thereabouts. So of the original 6-10, there'd be 3-5 scum.

[mastina]

So of the original 6-10, there'd be 3-5 scum.

this surface level reasoning is beneath mastina as town

Oh it sure is if this were my only reasoning but it's not.

What's my other reasoning?

Maybe you should actually try an iso of me and refer to my readslists in particular because I explain it in there.

The players I am scumreading are, pretty much almost entirely, contained in the complainers.

But the scumread doesn't come from the complaining, although their complaining is part of my reasoning for scumreading them.

If that doesn't make sense.

Again.

Read my fucking posts.

And it will then.

[mastina]

Hey, right now I have no internet. Am phoneposting. Even if I did tho, I'm sick.

"What's new? You've said that for 3 months."

Well, yes, but I forgot to mention last time, we know what that is. Vitamin B12 deficiency. Was gonna tell you how I was doing. Short version, multivitamin isn't working well, but isn't entirely worthless.

But.
I am sick, sick.
As in, "this feels like a bacterial infection", sick.
Bad coughing, sore throat, Just. Gunk in my chest.

So between no internet and an emergency doctor visit, won't be posting today.

[mastina]

I'm mostly better but had a date with my girlfriend tonight, and now need to go to bed.
Can post tomorrow tho!

[mastina]

So why are we lynching mastina other than “rebelling”?

She didn't want to duel Varsoon.

I BEG YOUR FUCKING PARDON.

I didn't want to duel Varsoon?

You should probably just gladiate me, given ~48 hours til deadline and me being at L-1 Gladiate wise, mastina.

I'll do it if all the players on the wagon give confirmation they are on it (have they? I don't think so), and if it is hammered, but otherwise, deadline's no concern; my ability adds time to it, you'll recall.

I'd still prefer to use it on V given the choice

.

HURT: NicoRobin, Jingle, Aristophanes

Pretty sure you already know mine!
HURT: Firebringer, Varsoon, Lady Angel
HURT WITH A BLADE: Invisibility.

I think it's concerning that Mastina wasn't online anywhere near to my original deadline

Frankly I thought I made my opinion clear on the matter but then again I thought I posted yesterday when I just got prodded so who knows maybe I didn't.

Then to reiterate-or-state-for-the-first time: I honestly don't give a fuck about your power, and don't see a reason why I should.

I feel you using it would be anti-town. This, I know for a 100% fact I already stated.
I feel like your threat to use it is an actual, legitimate case of holding the game hostage, the very thing people are wrongly accusing me of doing even though my usage of my power is the furthest thing from it. This, I also know I have stated for sure.
But I see no reason I should care about you using it beyond feeling it's a mistake.

Keep in mind I wasn't the one who came up with the idea of gladiating every day--that was you.
So I don't care about using it every day (I feel like it's the most optimal strategy, but I don't care for it to the point where I'll go out of my way to advocate for it); I would be fine with a lynch done the traditional way--it was

your

idea to use it every day, and you were the one who first pointed out why it was mathematically optimal for us to use it every day instead of a traditional lynch.

The question then wouldn't be why would I care so much about my gladiate to go out of my way to use it before you used your ability.
The question would be why you wouldn't care about my gladiate enough that you'd instead use your ability.

I still don't understand your logic for that.

Titus/Varsoon: Titus was solidly in her scumgame, and Varsoon has done no differently. The utter lack of content and all-around lack of drive along with the mudslinging, the hiding in the players-not-doing-anything crowd, it's a read I want to explain more but suffice to say, he is not town.

Btw.

For the people who said *I* was holding the game hostage.

This

is what a REAL "holding the game hostage" looks like:

I am going to be imposing a new timer on this game
In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today
The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

He thinks I'd be scumclaiming by using my ability

No, not using your ability.

Doing the very thing the game is accusing ME of doing, with said ability.

Now I happen to think you're still town in spite of that.

But I fully understand where Jingle's coming from here.

Mastina could literally speed this game up but she doesn't care to do so.

Not so.
I absolutely refuse to, on the basis of speeding the game up is incredibly anti-town to do. Yes, dragging things out is also anti-town, I am fully aware of that. But speeding the game up artificially is, and shall ALWAYS be, the worse of the two evils. I would prefer a happy medium but if forced to choose between the lesser of the two, I'll choose the one which gives us the greater amount of time, content, and information to make a more informed decision.

And anybody who thinks otherwise is an absolute moron, because that is just self-evidently the right call to make.

How does mastina hipshooting her gladiates solve thread apathy?
By making people take stances upon which they can be read and interact with each other? Fuck that shit. The problem isn't with mastina. The problem is with the complete lack of anything being done in the thread.

Pretty much.

People think that me hipshooting would make people be forced to take stances?
IN WHAT WORLD DOES THAT LOGIC WORK.
Because that is literally the fucking opposite of what would happen.
By hipshooting, I would be

preventing

people from being forced to take stances. When the only choices are, "Lynch mastina, lynch her innocent, or no lynch", there's no stance to be had. There's no choice to be had. So nobody is held accountable for what they do.
When the choices are, "gladiate this person, gladiate that person, gladiate third third person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this person, don't gladiate at all and lynch that person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this third person", and so on and so forth? You know, like in a normal mafia game?

Suddenly, the stances people hold become something they can and SHOULD be held accountable for.

How do you find scum in a game of mafia?

but I've been pushing my reads and giving my opinions on the game. I'm not the problem.

No argument there.

But you're not who I'm talking about.

Mastina needs to start pressuring ppl.

And why do you think it needs to be me?

Why can't THE TOWN pressure people?

Especially since I have stated multiple times that even if I really don't like it I'll use it on the player THE TOWN dictates?

Answer me that.

Why does it need to be me?

When we had no problem with it being the town on D1.
And when we had no problem with it being the town on D2.
Why, suddenly, on D3, is there the attitude that "the town is helpless here"? Which wasn't the case the prior two days?

^Literally the problem with JJ's role. Now we not only have people not voting because they can't be bothered to play, we also have people not voting because he's threatening to take their voice away from them.

THIS is what removing accountability via your role looks like, and is what I was getting at when I unvoted.

When I said there was a flaw in jjh's strategy, and it's called "unvote", this is what I was getting at. The flaw is that, by him literally telling people that they should be unvoting. He is making it easy for everyone to do exactly that, and thus, not be held accountable for their stances/votes, because they had good reason to not vote.

I want flips that we decide.

Kuroi was a flip we decided.
You were a flip we decided.
Why's this so hard to comprehend?

Mastina want to gladiate me?

Considering you're a townread?

Why no. No, I don't want to gladiate you.

If you were the lead wagon, I

would

, but I wouldn't be happy when doing it because it'd not be what I WANTED to do.

what does ari scumplay look like

Not like this.
The lazy-man's version is "he posts, he's town; he doesn't, he's scum", but obviously, not that simple; there's nuances to it.

like I'm a pretty firm believer in Mastina should be doing more than relying on the town to do shit for her.

Oh you mean like the scumhunting I've already done?

I mean.

Yeah.

I haven't done as much as I'd prefer, there's more points I'd like on why Varsoon and Firebringer are scum in particular (it has to do more or less with how they are cruising off of the excuse of "roles invalidate us doing anything" even when that is self-evidently not the case), but I've given plenty.

Do need a proper readslist tho.

I made it plenty clear.
Varsoon, NicoRobin, Jingle.
Doesn't matter WHO.
Anyone.
The rules were the same, regardless.
Get majority necessary for a lynch, even if not in votes, but with intent good enough.
If no player held majority and it was under 24 hours from deadline, I would gladiate the largest wagon.
If there were two equally large wagons tied for the lead, then I as the gladiator would use my prerogative in order to choose who got gladiated.

Varsoon used his power about 36 hours or so before day's deadline--12 hours or so before I was going to use my gladiate.

You know WHY he used his power?

Eligible Players
Jingle: (9) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (9) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin, Vecna
Vecna: (6) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (5) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (2) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

One of my strongest townreads, my read which is stronger a townread than a fucking soulread, or my second-strongest scumread.

GEE I WONDER WHO THE FUCK I WOULD GLADIATE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO BE A TIEBREAKER.

Fuck off with that bullshit, Creature.

You know DAMN fucking good and well I very fucking much would have done so if given the chance.

Did your read of LA or vizzy change at all after the flip? stronger? weaker? how much higher is fire than the others?

Why would my read on them change even remotely?

My reads are all interconnected. My townreads on all townreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads; my scumreads on all scumreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads.

But Varsoon was my second-strongest scumread.

And V flipped scum.

He flipped exactly what I thought he was.

So why would my reads in any way be different, when he was exactly what I thought he was? Of course they're the same because having confirmation of what I already knew doesn't really do anything. Anyone claiming it does would, frankly, raise a red flag for me.

GE 90% town.

NR 70% town.

LA probscum.

Flip the town percentages here and welcome to what my reads are!

[mastina]

did you know theres a subreddit just for walls of text?

Pretty sure mastina is the administrator there.

Nope! Mafiascum is the only site I use these days.
I am in fact known for verbosity in the sites I used prior to mafiascum holding a monopoly over my life, but never positions of power.

I do however know about a thing called formatting. When I put effort into formatting my walls, they're pretty readable, it's just often I forget to do that or I remember and just can't be damned to fix the mistake I know I made.

After all, the two ways I developed my writing were via essays and writing stories, both which require such things. (Funny story tho. When I first began writing, I used smaller paragraphs--but then for some reason I was taught not to use them. WHY for the love of god I don't know, but for that brief period of time I made colossal blocks of SOLID text. And then I re-learned my original way when I realized just how stupid that no-paragraph style was. )

The problem of that strategy is that players get bored too quickly.

Frankly?

If you get bored of the game, get the fuck off of this site; you don't deserve to play in it.

Games are not done just for fun.
They are serious.
They are a commitment.
You see them through to the end.
You're meant to have fun, yes.
But the other 20 players are not there to satiate

your

boredom.
That's your fucking problem, not theirs.

So I have zero sympathies for those bored of the game.

I play the game.

I wasn't the one who invented the strategy which people are "bored" of, but it was in fact the optimal strategy so I am using it. And if you have a problem with that, then that's not on me. Because I am playing to win, so if you're not, well then that's on you.

Subtext, jj. I got rolecopped and gave consent.

I even subtly asked NR not to share her results with the thread, because there is some, if slight, utility in keeping the specifics of my role hidden from the thread at large. If/when I flip that should make more sense. The idea that rolecopping me was unintentional and she meant to rolecop you actually strengthens my townread there.

Yeah uh.
Let's run through the list of redirector roles here.
If it's a redirector--why would a town redirector redirect Nico to Jingle? He's a ridiculously town player, and when a town player uses redirection, they are attempting to redirect negative actions onto scummy players. So, not a town redirection.
If it's a scum redirector, then Nico and Jingle are both town.

If it's a busdriver--why would a town busdriver busdrive Jingle and jjh? Again, the idea of redirection is to redirect actions which were meant to be good for scum to be bad for scum, yet trading Jingle and jjh is just trading two players who are basically filling the exact same mold of town mechanical solving genius. (More or less, anyway.)

If Jingle were a lightning rod, he'd just claim as much.
If jjh were a nexus, he'd just claim as much.
If it were a deflector, again, why would a town deflector deflect from one town player onto another town player?
Why would a scum deflector deflect on town, or if choosing to do so, deflect from one town to an incredibly similar town?

I'm probably missing some redirection roles here (in fact I know I am), but no matter how you slice it, this is pretty definitive evidence suggesting there's at least two town but probably three town in Nico/jjh/Jingle.

[mastina]

Btw may get some more girlfriend time and the moment that comes--I'm gone from here because frankly if you think I care about an online mafia game more than I care about my love life, I have news for you.

here is the speed I would like this game to go:

here is mastina speed:

I do not think your argument sends the message you're intending it to.
The first image is entirely meh. I am arguably more a cat person than a dog person given we own two cats to the one dog and have owned double the number of cats than dogs over my lifetime (rest in peace, my dearies), but that image just...kinda falls flat for me. It's a cat, okay. But it's a cat poorly edited into a background. It's based around some shitty meme no doubt, one which I am entirely unfamiliar with.

It is altogether something that I find utterly uninteresting.

The second image on the other hand is just d'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. It's

adorable

. It's probably stage, yes, but it's also not 'shopped. It's a video, one which is self-evidently a real thing which happened. Not without help, of course, because I doubt that happens without humans setting it up, but it still is real. It has an actual connection, and it's cute. It's something that is just more real, and more heartwarming, bringing a smile to my face.

So I'll gladly accept the latter as being me, and you do you and be the first but that's just not my taste, thankyouverymuch, and it never will be.

VOTE: Creature
I seem to remember that when Creature does not post, he is mafia. He is not posting. Thus, I believe this is a good vote

Glad to see you kept the spirit of Kuroi alive when inheriting his slot.

I have no idea why she announced again today that I visited her, did not see much town logic in it, but whatever.

My reasoning was because you needed to know you succeeded. Yesterday, because RC had a delay in telling me, and I had a further delay in telling you, it was almost disastrous, because we were going down a wrong train of thinking, thinking that you had failed, when you hadn't.

If I didn't claim, wouldn't you be wondering why I wasn't mentioning it? Wouldn't you think to ask RC, and if he confirmed, wonder if your action failed?

To be clear, I didn't replace anyone.

I signed up for the game originally and got a role PM back when the game started. My role was delayed entrance townie, because it fit with my character as myself from Labyrinth Mafia where my reads were ignored for most of the game. RC gave me a PM so that I could make notes while the game went on, and I did that for the first 10 pages or so, but not being in the game really killed my motivation to keep up, so I'm reading through now.

Btw, I can confirm--at some point I coulda SWORN I saw a list which had Shoshin as one of the players in the game. So I know that Shoshin's not lying here. Shoshin WAS a player at some point, just removed, and I buy the roleclaim here entirely.

The scumteam of Labyrinth Mafia quake in fear, as Shoshin has entered the game.

I love having myself a free extra town member.

[mastina]

Cool this game is bastard

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllll......

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1)

The setup consists of 5 scum, 16 town, and 2 players who can be town, mafia, or third party.

2) Whether the setup is bastard or not, there will not be any mechanics that involve lying to players outside of standard fare (ninjas, godfathers).

Subject: Anything uPick (22)

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1) The setup is confirmed as having faction numbers minus the final player. The final player's alignment may be {Town, Scum, 3P}. Traitors and similar count as scum.
3) From the day the game fills you have 2 days to send in a pick. Failure to do so and I will pick for you.
4) The game will be bastard* (not really) and role madness.

Noting that I received 2 complaints about a past role that deleted Ellibereth/Beeboy's post history. I don't intend to make a bastard game and I don't like bastard roles and I don't lie to players, but I'm covering my bases here.

What's the inverse mechanic to deleting a player from the game?

Why, adding them, of course.

[mastina]

mastina's flavor isn't Ginngie
VOTE: mastina

Rot in hell you fakeclaiming bastard because it absolutely is.

I was a fucking prein for this game.
You know what made me prein for the game?

I will be running another large theme uPick when Labyrinth ends!

Features include:

1) You get to pick your identitty!
2) There will be flavour!
3) Exciting role madness that remains dayplay driven with approximately 50/50 balance.

Features not included

1)

Ginngie

faking guilties on town.

2) NicoRobin on vig killing 2/4 of the scumteam.

Pre -ins:
Mastina
Gamma Emerald
NicoRobin
Innocent Children

and more when I start getting PMs back

That line.

That line about Ginngie not faking guilties on town, and Nico not vig killing half the scumteam.

Thus.
Why my picks were EXCLUSIVELY those two.

And you know what I did?

I sent no less than TWO PMs to RC, I even fucking pinged him on skype, too.
Asking.
"Hey you got my picks, right?"
"You got that I submitted Ginngie, right?"
And he told me he did in fact get my pick of Ginngie.

I am Ginngie, because trolling RC by being Ginngie was literally the only fucking reason I signed up for this game.

[mastina]

(To be honest, I was actually surprised I got Ginngie. I thought he'd make me NicoRobin, but nope! I got my first submitted pick, because I specified Ginngie as my first and Nico as my second and made DAMN sure not to submit a third because I knew if I gave RC an out he'd take it and I wasn't gonna give him that.)

[mastina]

I wanna see if mastina will change her flavorclaim or argue there's a redirector

Nope!
Because I know my fucking flavor.
I am Ginngie.
You are barking up the absolute worst tree possible because there are ZERO worlds where you win this fucking fight.
Because I can pretty definitively prove that was not only my pick, but also the role I got. The evidence is pretty conclusive and stupendously self-evident. It's right there in your face.

Plus I don't lie about flavor, ever.
I never lie about flavor as town because I never have any reason to tell that sort of lie. There's never been a game where I've seen reason to need to lie about my flavor as town, because simply put I've never had a flavor that I'd want to lie about.

I never lie about flavor as scum because I have EVERY reason to tell the truth about flavor, short of flavor being actually alignment-indicative.
Sure, yeah, if you're running a game where the Crew of Serenity is all the good guys and their enemies are all the bad guys, flavor becomes alignment-indicative (I abandoned ship on that review for good reason ), but in any competently designed game where flavor is alignment-indicative the nontown have safeclaims for flavor. In a game like this one though, role is done separately from flavor.

I don't know when exactly alignments are rolled in a UPick, but the process isn't "Oh hey this player picked exclusively bad people, therefore, they are scum"; it is more along the lines of "Oh this player rolled town/scum, now with that flavor I'm going to design this to give them powers for that alignment" (more or less).

There is never a scenario where I ever lie about my flavor and you fucking know it.

I am Ginngie because that is literally one of the only two roles I would pick.
And good luck trying to fit my role into the other one I'd pick.

[mastina]

I'm guilting his beloved mastina who, if it wasn't her role, would've been lynched by now.

If it weren't for my role, people wouldn't be paying any attention to me at all.

NicoRobin is objectively scum and there is very little that is going to convince me otherwise besides Mastina succesfully gladiating her.

Hint: mastina won't gladiate her

If I can prevent it, damn straight!

I want my scumreads gladiated, not my townreads.

Nico's basically my second-strongest townread second only to Jingle, so she's at the absolute bottom of my gladiate list. If forced to due to majority I would, but that's literally the only scenario I will.

Otherwise no.

I want to see if mastina will change her flavorclaim before revealing what were exactly my results

As if you needed more evidence that Creature was fakeclaiming this pretty explicitly tells you as much.

The sad thing is I don't think he's scum (reason I haven't gladiated him yet) which is why I am so fucking pissed off because scum claiming a guilty on me? No problem. Lynch the scum, or lynch me and then lynch the scum for it. Town claiming a guilty on me? Self-sabotaging waste of a fucking day.

Also girlfriend's home so this is it for now.

[mastina]

That said I don't think Mastina is the kind of player that would lie about flavour when it's one of those things in uPicks that can be very easily discovered as a lie and also RC's gladiate flavour has been "A guilty has been declared" so I would like you to do a common sense check before we even get off the ground here

Also if you check my history in uPicks which have freeform in what's available to pick.
In 100% of them.
The entirety of my picks have been scummers on-site, without fail.
I never submit a non-scummer for an anything uPick.

Because pathetic as that implication may be, mafiascum really is what I think of most.

On another note, VOTE: NicoRobin
This is easily the scummiest slot in the game.

Sure is!
Scummiest != scum tho and I happen to know better than that.

I've got Creature, Porkens, jjh, and Jingle as town so far.

He replaced random? I had random as town in the early game.

Yeah, just checked my notes. Random's town, so Aristophanes is as well.

As if I needed any more proof proof you are town.

Lady, why townread Nero? Why scumread Nico?

Nero's town due to this being his towngame. I realize you're a replacement so you've only seen the drop in Nero's posting habits, rather than witnessing them the whole game, but take my word for it or take the time to iso him, whichever you prefer; when doing so, you'll realize this has been his towngame through and through.

Nico, good question. Because this is

also

her towngame through and through.

[mastina]

But I'll reexamine her on her own BoP if it's confirmed I'm right

Uh, my own BoP says I'm a terrible player, objectively mediocre-at-best: situationally useful, nigh-OP gamebreaking solving the scumteam when given the right circumstances; when not given said circumstances, doing dismally and being lucky to catch so much as a single scum. (This is admittedly one of the main reasons I defend NicoRobin; I see a lot of myself in her, particularly those traits.) What gave you the impression that I'm a good player? I certainly never said as much. (Heck I've been wrong provably 2/3 times thusfar.)

now declare a guilty on someone please

The rules don't change for any reason, not even town faking a guilty on me. Just because I know it's faked doesn't mean I'm dumb enough to automatically assume it must come from scum; sadly, I know all too good and well that's not the case. Creature is town. Just...really, really stupid town.

Oh you've been doing the hurtcounts again

Right.
HURT: Lady Angel, Invisibility, WhemeStar.
With my vote remaining on FireBringer.

[mastina]

This is disgusting btw. It completely dodges the point

Nope!

It directly addressed the point.

Read it again.

I was directly countering what they said because I was pointing out that what

they

want is not a good thing and never will be; what

I

prefer is something that has some actual real backing behind it.

So, then INSTA-GLADIATE creature, if he's confirmed to be lying to you?

We dont need a democratic process if you know he's lying. Your role gives you that power. Fuck what we agreed before, people have changed their mind and appreciate some speed.

This would be fine logic if confirmed liar = confirmed scum.
Unfortunately, it does not.
I am not a moron.
I know Creature's result is inaccurate, but I also know that Creature in spite of claiming an inaccurate result is town. Thus, the rule remains in place; I will not impulse gladiate someone who I believe is town. That'd be the absolute worst possible usage of my role.

wtf, thought after comma wouldn't count

Neither did I; I was under the impression that Ginngie was my flavor role title (with hated loyal gladiator being my role title), and that the text following it was purely flavor.

If it makes a difference tho, the text following is "Claimer of Guilties".

this game has some of the worst mechanics i have ever seen in a mafia game.
like next to undertale mafia actually where there was zero scum.

Can we please just insta-gladiate this slot? How is this not a scum-claim fed up with Mastina's role? Just like the varsoon anger.
Really, we do not need to have this dragged out much longer, do we?

I'd be all too happy to, but the rules never change, not even when I want them to.

Yes, as the gladiator, I hold the power to make the change if I so wish, but that is not a decision I will ever make, and my reasoning remains the same. I do not believe in taking the fate of the game into the hands of a player who is, provably, sub-optimal in performance overall, especially in such dictatorial roles.

I am advocating for a Firebringer gladiate tho and would encourage you to do the same. Get the votes/hurts in there and I would happily do so in a heartbeat.

[mastina]

just a generic question for due dilligence for those who have played with a scum mastina before. is she even remotely capable of coming up with plans like the varsoon charade to make her look super good, and then have a scum creature pretend to have this role and make this claim in the way he did?

General rule of thumb for scumastina, anything is

possible

to be scumastina, because she's

capable

of coming up with any plan, it's just more a matter of whether she would. Judgement beyond that is best left to others as to avoid self-meta bias tho I obviously know the answer.
(It's no; I

could

think of something like that but pragmatically never would.)

scum probably complaining like mad about op role design, while it shouldve been super obv who was keeping mastina alive.

Indeed.

mass scum exodus.

Probably!

lets speedlynch the guys that need replacing? fb is scum regardless.

I support this product and/or service.

[mastina]

You’re not arguing directly, you’re arguing using gif analysis.

And that's all the argument warrants. It does not deserve the dignity of a direct response because that's what I think of the point: not worth spending time to directly address.

I'm very adamant about lynching/gladiating Nico, meta or not.

Okay.

Try this on for size.

What do you think about how Varsoon treated Nico Robin?

Don't remember?

That's okay, lemme give a refresher.

So why don't we make Mastina gladiate Nico
And then if it works
We can either lynch Mastina or just use my role if we want to lynch outside those two?

Nico fucked up their gambit by forgetting they already outted how their role works.
So then when Nico got called out on it, they admitted it was a lie, but failed to reveal what they got out lying, hinting that lying wasn't really a gambit but just a power play to try to get Mastina quicklynched.
Then they walked it back to the 48 hour thing.
All while JJH claimed deathproof with probable assumption that scum-Nico, who was under fire by JJH, goes for a kill on him--we had no death, so possible.
Nico denies, blames JJH and/or Jingle for their role not working the way it should (how?) and then insists that there are plenty of other explanations for why there'd be a no-kill, to which Jingle corroborates that there is a loud doctor but doubts it blocked the kill.

I think that's the whole of it?

Porkens rejected the thing and so NR got the triple vote

So what's keeping scum!mastina from rejecting the thing?
I don't understand why nico thought that gambit made sense, considering the above.

Wouldn't it look worse if the guy who was deathtunneling her died?
/shrugs
Regardless
I don't think it's a good look for Nico any way you come at it, but
What now?

Oh hey it's just occurred to me that Nico submits her action at night and Mastina got the thing which means she can't have been blocked in any way

ayyyyy

So....
Why did Mastina claim your message is about a role, then?

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here. I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

The easiest solution to this is just to lynch NicoRobin. If they are town, then they weren't lying (or at least we can parse what was a lie and what wasn't) and we proceed like that. If they were scum, then cool.

Otherwise, what can we do?
Only other solution is for us to try to shackle Nico and dictate who she visits, but there's about a dozen ways that could go wrong.

(OH HEY THIS STANCE SEEMS SUSPICIOUSLY SIMILAR. SWITCH OUT NICO, AND WHO DO YOU SUBSTITUTE IN FOR THIS TO STILL FIT?)

VOTE: NicoRobin
Right?
If every conversation is just going to come back to this
Or Mastina
Let's solve it.

It's at least more than cowtowing to Mastina and/or NicoRobin's play, so even though it's literally wrong, I'm still for it.

BTW at work so the soonest you'll get a content post from me is in over 3 hours, but I'd like to reiterate.
If you think Nico is scum, ask yourself, "how does this make sense coming from scum?".
You might default to, "scum caught in a lie, backtracking"…
…Except. While that may work as an explanation for some scummers. It doesn't work as an explanation for NICO. Quite the opposite, it's the very proof that she's town. You might struggle to understand how it makes sense coming from town, but serious question.

How many games have you played?
In how many of those games, was there a town player whose actions made no sense, but they were still town?

You're outright ignorant or lying if it hasn't happened in at least a third of your games.

It's a little difficult to show because she has a dozen past accounts, but I can show Nico's quite extensive history of this sort of thing.

I've MODDED plenty of games that Nico's played. I understand where that play is coming from.
On one level, you're right, Nico is earnest and that earnesty is NAI.
But let's look at what Nico was earnest about--
Faking a guilty
Lying about their role
And when they realized they messed both up, they walked both things back in defense of self.
Why does town!Nico need to defend self and isn't just suicidal in a push/absolutely defeatist when it doesn't work out?
Why does town!Nico fake a guilty and lie about role against you?
It doesn't make sense to me.

Surprise surprise that I call this out and call out the forced crawl this game has been bent over backwards into and both Nico and Mastina are hard aggro on me for it

Congrats for identifying that Nico/Yume has played in games before, Mastina. Real ace detective work. You sure showed us.

You wanna talk cool meta points? Why not bring up how I play exactly this way in every single game I replace-in to this deep in as town?
Oh but nooooo suddenly can't mention meta when maybe you can't warp it to fit your own desiresssss

Garbage trash, please get lynched and die.
I shouldn't have to do anything besides point out that you alone have been responsible for why there has not been a lynch yet in this fucking TWO HUNDRED PAGE GAME
Fuck off with your self-righteous bullshit and eat some rope. Town-Mastina doesn't play this way and RC doesn't make that role as a town role.

HURT: Vecna, NicoRobin, NeroCain

I mean.

If you don't buy my meta defense.

Then sure, fuck meta, but I don't need meta defense anymore.

I need only point to Varsoon's interactions for proof that Nico is not his scum partner.

And with that done.

What do you think?

[mastina]

For those too lazy to read:

Nico Robin was, consistently, Varsoon's strongest scumread in the game, side-by-side with me.
Varsoon's complaints about NicoRobin are a direct echo to his complaints about me.
He rants about her role the same way he rants about my role; he tries to twist meta the same way on her that he did on me; he tried to pin blame on her the same way he did to me.

The treatment is, literally, identical.

If you have taken the stance that Varsoon's interactions clear me of scum, then why the FUCK are you scumreading the player who should arguably be even MORE cleared by them than me?

[mastina]

Can you revisit that tomorrow? Today would be a pretty bad day to lynch Fire

In my experience.

That makes today the BEST day to lynch Fire.

VOTE: invisibility

While Invisibility is indeed scum, this is a bad idea--it divides our efforts between two equally viable lynch wagons, Invisibility and Firebringer. The result of splitting in half like that is that neither will be lynched.

So, save it for tomorrow; lynch Firebringer today.

[mastina]

What did mastina do today other than complain I'm bad?

This could, oh.
I dunno.
Be solved by.
Yaknow.

Spoiler: ...Reading my fucking posts?

VOTE: Firebringer
Choo-choo

Seems like a plan to me!
VOTE: Firebringer.

Why are you voting me when its clear that if i was fucking scum i would have fucking killed mastina for my own fucking sanity.

Considering in all our games together you've never once nightkilled me when you've been scum?

Why the fuck would you.

My death would actually be evidence you're town because you'd never nightkill me.

I was fucking right about the people whining containing scum.

^The implication being that they

still

do.

Mastina if everyone annoyed at your slow af pace in deciding to gladiate contains scum then I think we have a 10-15 person scum team
-rh

Contains scum != comprised entirely of scum.

There are around 8 players who have complained, give or take a couple.

Of that number, one flipped scum and I am expecting half total to be scum, thereabouts. So of the original 6-10, there'd be 3-5 scum.

Nobody asked me to name names, but I easily can!

So of the original 6-10, there'd be 3-5 scum.

this surface level reasoning is beneath mastina as town

Oh it sure is if this were my only reasoning but it's not.

What's my other reasoning?

Maybe you should actually try an iso of me and refer to my readslists in particular because I explain it in there.

The players I am scumreading are, pretty much almost entirely, contained in the complainers.

But the scumread doesn't come from the complaining, although their complaining is part of my reasoning for scumreading them.

If that doesn't make sense.

Again.

Read my fucking posts.

And it will then.

(^If I could nest spoilers, I would make a spoiler showing the specific posts I am referencing right here to prove why this is relevant content, but alas, not a feature we have.)

Varsoon used his power about 36 hours or so before day's deadline--12 hours or so before I was going to use my gladiate.

You know WHY he used his power?

Eligible Players
Jingle: (9) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (9) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin, Vecna
Vecna: (6) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (5) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (2) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

One of my strongest townreads, my read which is stronger a townread than a fucking soulread, or my second-strongest scumread.

GEE I WONDER WHO THE FUCK I WOULD GLADIATE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO BE A TIEBREAKER.

Did your read of LA or vizzy change at all after the flip? stronger? weaker? how much higher is fire than the others?

Why would my read on them change even remotely?

My reads are all interconnected. My townreads on all townreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads; my scumreads on all scumreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads.

But Varsoon was my second-strongest scumread.

And V flipped scum.

He flipped exactly what I thought he was.

So why would my reads in any way be different, when he was exactly what I thought he was? Of course they're the same because having confirmation of what I already knew doesn't really do anything. Anyone claiming it does would, frankly, raise a red flag for me.

GE 90% town.

NR 70% town.

LA probscum.

Flip the town percentages here and welcome to what my reads are!

(^The entirety of this is relevant. Varsoon used his power because the alternative lynches were Jingle and NicoRobin--this gives

strong

evidence that both Jingle and NicoRobin are town, not to mention corroborating that, yes, scum were afraid of my power being used.

It gives an update on my reads; the strength and reasoning behind them remains unchanged.

It also gives new information: a rough estimate of percentages for my reads. If you read Nico as being around 90%--more accurately, 95--and Gamma as being around 70%, then suddenly, when you go check back on my readslist, you have a convenient reference for read strength:

Ginngie/Jingle: (100%)
KuroiXHF
Chickadee
NicoRobin (95%)

Nosferatu/Creature
Nero Cain
randomidget/Aristophanes
Gamma Emerald (70%)
jjh927
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)/northsidegal
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)/The Meme Men

Invisibility (THIS READ IS THE ONLY CHANGED ONE AS INVISIBILITY IS MUCH LOWER)
Porkens
Vecna

Whemestar

Lady Angel

Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)/Firebringer

As so.

Subtext, jj. I got rolecopped and gave consent.

I even subtly asked NR not to share her results with the thread, because there is some, if slight, utility in keeping the specifics of my role hidden from the thread at large. If/when I flip that should make more sense. The idea that rolecopping me was unintentional and she meant to rolecop you actually strengthens my townread there.

Yeah uh.
Let's run through the list of redirector roles here.
If it's a redirector--why would a town redirector redirect Nico to Jingle? He's a ridiculously town player, and when a town player uses redirection, they are attempting to redirect negative actions onto scummy players. So, not a town redirection.
If it's a scum redirector, then Nico and Jingle are both town.

If it's a busdriver--why would a town busdriver busdrive Jingle and jjh? Again, the idea of redirection is to redirect actions which were meant to be good for scum to be bad for scum, yet trading Jingle and jjh is just trading two players who are basically filling the exact same mold of town mechanical solving genius. (More or less, anyway.)

If Jingle were a lightning rod, he'd just claim as much.
If jjh were a nexus, he'd just claim as much.
If it were a deflector, again, why would a town deflector deflect from one town player onto another town player?
Why would a scum deflector deflect on town, or if choosing to do so, deflect from one town to an incredibly similar town?

I'm probably missing some redirection roles here (in fact I know I am), but no matter how you slice it, this is pretty definitive evidence suggesting there's at least two town but probably three town in Nico/jjh/Jingle.

The presence of an unclaimed redirector, fairly strongly confirmed to exist because NicoRobin is not the type of player to invent that particular type of lie, is a strong indicator that she is town.

To be clear, I didn't replace anyone.

I signed up for the game originally and got a role PM back when the game started. My role was delayed entrance townie, because it fit with my character as myself from Labyrinth Mafia where my reads were ignored for most of the game. RC gave me a PM so that I could make notes while the game went on, and I did that for the first 10 pages or so, but not being in the game really killed my motivation to keep up, so I'm reading through now.

Btw, I can confirm--at some point I coulda SWORN I saw a list which had Shoshin as one of the players in the game. So I know that Shoshin's not lying here. Shoshin WAS a player at some point, just removed, and I buy the roleclaim here entirely.

The scumteam of Labyrinth Mafia quake in fear, as Shoshin has entered the game.

I love having myself a free extra town member.

Cool this game is bastard

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllll......

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1)

The setup consists of 5 scum, 16 town, and 2 players who can be town, mafia, or third party.

2) Whether the setup is bastard or not, there will not be any mechanics that involve lying to players outside of standard fare (ninjas, godfathers).

Subject: Anything uPick (22)

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1) The setup is confirmed as having faction numbers minus the final player. The final player's alignment may be {Town, Scum, 3P}. Traitors and similar count as scum.
3) From the day the game fills you have 2 days to send in a pick. Failure to do so and I will pick for you.
4) The game will be bastard* (not really) and role madness.

Noting that I received 2 complaints about a past role that deleted Ellibereth/Beeboy's post history. I don't intend to make a bastard game and I don't like bastard roles and I don't lie to players, but I'm covering my bases here.

What's the inverse mechanic to deleting a player from the game?

Why, adding them, of course.

I give a read on the new member--town--and also back them up on their claimed narrative.

The answer: a whole fuckload more than YOU have done, hypocrite. Because let me bounce that question back.
Seriously.
What have YOU done this day phase, other than bitch about me?

[mastina]

I'd like to once again reiterate the reasons why NicoRobin is town.

1. Strong Meta Reasoning From a Long Game History with her.
   
2. Lack of scum incentive for her actions.
   The actions might work as things scum might do in general, but don't work as things
   NicoRobin
   does as scum.
   
3. "But she COULD be doing this specifically to manipulate her meta!" is the leading counterargument, but that argument is shit, because it is basically, "but it COULD be WIFOM!", in a game where you can argue literally anything could be wifom. Yes it can in theory; that doesn't mean in reality it actually is. Applying occam's razor--the simpler explanation applies--which is more likely?
   NicoRobin JUST SO HAPPENED to choose her actions this game specifically to manipulate her meta in specific ways...
   ...Or that what you see is what you get and they are just indicative of town?
   
4. Varsoon named her as his preferred lynch.
   Even more than he attacked me, arguably. I had immunity due to my power; NicoRobin had no such immunity, thus, an attack on her carries even more weight. Don't believe me? Why don't you read his iso yourself, control-fing for "Nico" and "Robin". I even pre-highlighted Nico, and also the rough spot where it gets juicy.
   
5. Varsoon used his power when he was the main person on the chopping block.
   If NicoRobin were scum, then Varsoon would not have had reason to use his power, since he could save her the old-fashioned way: let himself take the brunt of my blow, and by proxy, save her. If he wanted to save himself, however, there must have been a reason; the most obvious is that the other lynch candidates were town and he was hoping one of them would bite the bullet.
   
6. There is an unclaimed redirector which was utilized in a way incredibly pro-scum, indicating strongly that NicoRobin is town.
   Aside from the scummy nature of the redirect power's usage, there's also the fact that if it were a town power, the player would have claimed it to clear up the situation. That they haven't, that they are trying to hide its existence, gives evidence that it originates from scum.

And this isn't even a complete list.

[mastina]

Varsoon named her as his preferred lynch.

Even more than he attacked me, arguably. I had immunity due to my power; NicoRobin had no such immunity, thus, an attack on her carries even more weight. Don't believe me? Why don't you read his iso yourself, control-fing for "Nico" and "Robin". I even pre-highlighted Nico, and also the rough spot where it gets juicy.

If you don't think that's a valid argument "because, bussing", let me then point you to your own fucking responses to Nico insisting that V was bussing me.

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

So either accept that it wasn't bussing, or discard your fucking defense of me against Nico (and by proxy, discard the point against her that she's arguing something ridiculous), don't particularly care which, but I feel like this is a damn fucking solid point illustrating why I fucking know what I am talking about.

NicoRobin is town.

[mastina]

Varsoon named her as his preferred lynch.

Even more than he attacked me, arguably. I had immunity due to my power; NicoRobin had no such immunity, thus, an attack on her carries even more weight. Don't believe me? Why don't you read his iso yourself, control-fing for "Nico" and "Robin". I even pre-highlighted Nico, and also the rough spot where it gets juicy.

If you don't think that's a valid argument "because, bussing", let me then point you to your own fucking responses to Nico insisting that V was bussing me.

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

So either accept that it wasn't bussing, or discard your fucking defense of me against Nico (and by proxy, discard the point against her that she's arguing something ridiculous), don't particularly care which, but I feel like this is a damn fucking solid point illustrating why I fucking know what I am talking about.

NicoRobin is town.

By this, I mean.
NicoRobin has continued to attack me after Varsoon's flip, arguing it was bussing.
People have called that suspicious/scummy, saying that V's flip should make it abundantly clear it wasn't bussing.

Except.
By arguing NicoRobin as scum.

You are making the same argument she is.

Because Varsoon was heavily, HEAVILY attacking NicoRobin.
Thus.
For NicoRobin to be scum...
...Varsoon would need to have been bussing.
The thing you are saying he didn't do, RE: me.

So I stand by what I said. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I don't particularly care which of the two you discard, but you can't keep arguing both sides.

[mastina]

So is mastina on a date since October?

No, but I've been sick since before October and frequent dates help rejuvenate me and literally, keep me alive in every sense of the word. I'd be dead without dating my girlfriend; I'm absolutely sure of it.

This game is still going on because like three people are like “let’s continue” or “yeah w/e let’s finish”
But everyone has stated a desire that this game isn’t fun.

I both want the game to continue and am having fun.

I am advocating for a Firebringer gladiate

Please do this.

I need majority to do so. Believe me I want to.

[mastina]

Heyyyy, sorry to do this to everyone but I'm having a very bad relapse, health taking utter turn for the worse. Destroyed throat, constant coughing, inability to really swallow, etc.

I'm going to take 24-48 hours to rest before getting back into the game. Apologies. We do have the time on the deadline clock, so I know deadline's not an issue, so you can wait for me that long.

[mastina]

The day will end in (expired on 2018-11-24 19:00:00).

Wait fuck.
I thought it was 3, 5 days from now.

Uhhh.

NEVERMIND THEN.

I have a guilty on Firebringer.

[mastina]

All will be opened in 48 hours given consent from all relevant players.

/consent.

[mastina]

Mastina I am almost curious,
Did you actually think confirming town players would win you the game just because of the apathy you produced?

I confirmed a grand total of three players.

One player was calculated deadweight (Kuroi)--conftowning them did no harm, because as conftown with a role known, as far as being as useless as possible, Kuroi was by far better. Kuroi's replacement fared no better on that front, and continued to be useless. Heck, the slot came close to being modkilled and it was only the bitching of players which prevented it from having that fate. I stand by that decision.

Chickadee being conftown gave me a convenient excuse to nightkill her. You think I made that choice because I didn't want to? No, I wanted to nightkill Chickadee as early as D1.

You being conftown gave us an excuse to nightkill you. Your role was one of the stronger ones in the game, and it was a role not likely to be lynched. So by conftowning you, we had a good excuse to get rid of you.

So absolutely, yes.
I felt that conftowning people who were my planned fucking nightkills anyway (for instance, I almost got a chance to conftown Jingle...which would have been perfect for getting him out of the game because there was literally no player better on strength-of-play for me to use my strongman on overall) was a QUITE good usage of my role.

If you're conftowning the players you intended to nightkill anyway...then you're depriving the town of lynches, WHILE killing the players you wanted dead anyway. It's literally the town doing your work for you.

[mastina]

(Mind you, I wanted to strongman you immediately after conftowning you. Nico didn't think to do that.)

[mastina]

Keep in mind, by the way: If there was a town player who I absolutely didn't want to nightkill that people wanted me to use my power on?
I could just refuse to use my power on them.
And then I would die, sure--but so too would that town player.

As the one who pulled the trigger on the gladiates.
I held ultimate control over how I used it.
I conftowned the players I did because it was a calculated decision. Kuroi as conftown? May not be able to kill him, but he's useless; he was doing nothing as deadweight. Chickadee as conftown? I felt like keeping Chickadee alive would have helped town coherency; killing her helped disrupt it. Firebringer as conftown? Well then suddenly him being a corpse has a nice excuse and people look no further than him having been conftown.

Saaaaaaaaaaay. For Gamma though? Oh I just refuse. Eat the lynch, and watch Gamma get lynched after I go down.

There were players in this game I wouldn't have gladiated, because those players were players I would not have killed--but there were plenty of people who I was QUITE fine having a convenient excuse to nightkill, and those players were the ones I'd gladiate.

[mastina]

(Btw, this game is the game that did indeed earn me the Battle Mage award, which is why I had that on my mind. )

[mastina]

In the name of calming the ego, your slot tried talking me out of scumreading Wheme, hehe.

While waiting for the thread to open, Krazy and I had quite the nice chat and he mentioned this fact.