James Brafin's mini normal review, August 2018

[implosion]

Hey!
My comod (the worst) and I have made some edits and I thought you might like to see them.

Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Novice vigilante
Tracker
6 Vanilla

Scum
Ninja Roleblocker
2-shot Doctor
Goon


Use Frozen Angel modified (6-1 day/night cycle, Red is my color, day chat enabled)

We are still discussing a few things, but this should be most of it. Whenever you’re ready to review, just send me and the worst a link and we will come join you.

Quick edits:
Scum doctor is now loud
Replace one vanilla Town With a compulsive visitor.

One other note: you mentioned 6-day days and 1-day nights; I'd like to keep normal game days at at least 7 days long.

[implosion]

Primary: Ircher
Secondary: Something_Smart

[Something_Smart]

Ego

Thoughts tonight

[James Brafin]

Hey!

[James Brafin]

Could someone authorize the worst to see this?

[Ircher]

At a first glance, this looks scumsided.

Town has a weak babysitter which is strong because it can act as an investigative. It's weaker than a full cop though.
Vengeful townie should always be lynched on claim. It's probably between a weak and mid-level PR.
Novice Vigilante should be a fairly strong role, but it's also a fairly swingy role.
Tracker is generally a mid-level investigative for town.
As far as compulsive visitor goes, I don't see the point of it other than weakening the tracker which is ???.

The problem lies in that you give scum a full Ninja AND a FULL roleblocker. Furthermore, it has a high swing element since the two roles are a single role.

Loud 2-Shot Doctor seems fine. Just note that performing the factional kill still activates the loud modifier.

I want to think this over more/hear from SS, but my first thought here is to make the ninja roleblocker 3-Shot Roleblocker.

[Ircher]

As far as 6-day day phases goes, I guess that's ultimately for implosion (as listmod) to decide BUT:

Mechanical changes which must be announced beforehand include:
Open or Semi-Open setups
Day phase deadlines shorter than 1 week or longer than 3 weeks

According to the above, it's technically allowed. I wouldn't say 1 day nights are a good idea unless you let people submit early though.

[implosion]

Could someone authorize the worst to see this?

Done

[Something_Smart]

On first glance I don't think town has enough power. Tracker is useless for all intents and purposes. Vig, babysitter and vengeful together will probably cause 2 extra deaths which isn't bad but it's super unpredictable.

Compulsive visitor is basically useless.

Weak babysitter is just mean, because you want to target town but if you target town the night you die it screws town over royally.

First thought is remove the scum roleblocker completely and it may be balanced. Will have to think about it more in depth though.

[Something_Smart]

And I agree with Ircher that 24-hour nights is gonna lead to a lot of missed actions. Would probably recommend 7 days/48 hours; is there a reason you wanted it shorter?

[Ircher]

(Feel free @James and/or @The worst to give your thoughts on why you have the setup as it is. Understanding your view on the matter can help by allowing the reviewers insight on things they otherwise wouldn't've considered.)

[the worst]

lemme catch up

[the worst]

7 day/48 hr is good imo.

Ninja RB is not multitasking. I'll hunt for the PMs.....

[Something_Smart]

True, I forgot about the multitasking rule since I don't really like it at all.

RB is still way too strong though, and now it's also swingy since it loses most of its strength if it's the only maf alive-- unless tracker is still alive in which case it is either still weak or a godfather.

[the worst]

Found em. So basically this is James' concept so if he wants to hop in and tell me to stop quackin' rule to his preferences..... the original draft was~

Town
Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Tracker
Prime-Night vigilante
X Vanilla

Scum
Ninja
Backup Ninja/Roleblocker
Roleblocker

@irchy I suggested the same thing you suggested-- full Ninja + full RB is scumsided. the non multitasking ninja rb forces scum to kinda shoot in the dark as to whether they want to avoid presumed investigation or reduce town powah.

because of the prevalence of ninjas in the original setup I suggested town tracker was technically negative utility in context as a mid strength town investigative which I think is right. it's kinda more balanced considering the ninja may or may not ninja. besides, trackers don't reeaaalllyyyyy get clears in normals unless you're absolutely sure there isn't a ninja.... so I'm kinda comfortable with the singletasking ninja/rb vs. tracker mechanic.

(also I Recommended the split of vengeful and tracker into two TPRs. if you want some commentary around this I'm happy to throw it in)

the prime number vig was basically there to avoid n1 shots which is why I suggested the novice vig. an even night would do the same thing but weaken town a little (and decrease swing slightlyyyyy), tho I feel like James didn't want even night off the top of my head

I like weak babysitter in a general sense because I'm not a fan of non WIFOMy / investigative roles I think it's kinda ok having a meh investigative balance wise but I think it's changeable--fmpov it's just a neat role, and doesn't contribute much to the 'theme'.


so my suggestion was

=== TOWN ===

Weak Babysitter
Vengeful Townie
Town Tracker
Novice Vigilante
5-6 Vanilla?

=== SCUM ===

Ninja Roleblocker
Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Goon


James came up with the idea of a loud mafia doctor. I think it adds a bit of flair to how to scumteam works but is kinda strange unless the vig can shoot quite a lot.

but it also creates an interesting avenue for gambit play. it's definitely a fairly strong role.

and yes, agreed for sure that loud goes thru on kill attempts.

[the worst]

True, I forgot about the multitasking rule since I don't really like it at all.

RB is still way too strong though, and now it's also swingy since it loses most of its strength if it's the only maf alive-- unless tracker is still alive in which case it is either still weak or a godfather.

sure that's fair. I like the ninja rb a lot better than ninja + RB but ungated mafia roleblockers are god tier.

any suggestions on how we could knock this down a peg? I think there's enough shenanigans that a mafia manipulative role isn't too out of place, but maybe something less powerful?

[the worst]

o ye a couple of questions wrt normalcy

James suggested full day talk over an encrypted (basically a 'they have it or they don't' approach, so no daytalk would be fine too).. any thoughts on this?

also: we're thinking of modding this from a hydra account for comodding and mutual accountability. would this be ok or should we just comod from our own accounts? (lmk if I should throw this to implo)

[implosion]

comodding on a hydra is fine with me as long as it's clear that's what you're doing.

Full daytalk is allowed, but should be announced in the rules.

[the worst]

beetlejuiced :0
thanks dude.

[Ircher]

7 day/48 hr is good imo.

Ninja RB is not multitasking. I'll hunt for the PMs.....

Ninja is passive.

[Ircher]

Honestly, I'm still uncomfortable w/ ninja, but if we go that route, normalcy requires you to specify it as "Roleblocker Activated Ninja".

My minimal change is to change the ninja roleblocker to 3-shot roleblocker. I'd pass the setup with that change.

[Something_Smart]

any suggestions on how we could knock this down a peg? I think there's enough shenanigans that a mafia manipulative role isn't too out of place, but maybe something less powerful?

A mafia manipulative role wouldn't be out of place, but it would be too scumsided without giving town more power. Town will probably have enough difficulty getting their shit in order as it is.

Either you or James can answer this, but why is the vigilante novice? Is it just to limit the number of potential kills early on?

[the worst]

James' original thoughts were a prime number night vig, and yeah basically to limit the number of deaths n1 (there is a small margin for catastrophe with a full ungated vig). I suggested the novice vig because I think it's a cleaner and probably slightly more balanced way to pull this off--though it's both balanced and swing.


@Ircher, I'd be on board for a 3 shot roleblocking activated ninja. let's see what James/SS say but I actually think that strengthens the intent of the role by not having them just spam RB for the lols.

[Ircher]

Actually, I don't think activated works either because then they can't perform the factional kill at the same time. While Ninja OR Roleblocker would definitely be an interesting role, I don't think there is a normal mechanism atm to make that work. Ninja is by default passive (i.e.: it always works), but making it activated interferes with the night kill making it pointless.

[the worst]

is there much of a problem with the roleblocker shots being ninja'd?