Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[SirCakez]

VOTE: RADIANTCOWBALLS
OMGUS

IM BACK
IN MAFBLACK
THE BEST THEME

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Porkens

I'm just gonna be cruising and following along for a bit.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: skitter
Shoshin is right, that wall post on page 4 was ugly. I still dislike the pig too though.

[SirCakez]

Gamma's logic for Nos town is garbo, especially when you look at how experienced Nos is.

[SirCakez]

Skitter giving up and following RC so fast sketch af
Creature being a nonpresence is always worrying too.

[SirCakez]

interesting

[SirCakez]

Skitter giving up and following RC so fast sketch af
Creature being a nonpresence is always worrying too.

i don't have a particularly strong read on her, def not one that i'm confident in, def not at this stage of the game

he does and this is one of the very particular scenarios that i'm willing to sheep someone on pretty much carte blanche (those scenarios are specifically mathdino on nsg and notmafia, and rc on nsg. math on the worst probably too now that i think about it); it's something i know he prides himself on being very, very accurate on and he felt strongly enough about it here to pull out his history reading her

he's good at reading her and i know i'm not and he wants to wagon her

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You claim not to have a read on RC but then are sheeping him on NSG b/c RC can always read NSG right, except you're also unsure about if RC is town or scum???

Creature is town beyond reasonable doubt. Take a look at 23 (questioning a townread on himself isn't how scum Creature would react), 35 (progressing naturally from the confusion in 23), 71 (exhibiting a conversational tone, lots of ease, no awkwardness, not at all like scum Creature), 73 (posing an excellent question that probably wouldn't occur to scum Creature at this point in the game), and 77 (expressing conviction in early vote, very unlike scum Creature). If Creature were scum, in contrast, he'd likely have expressed an early townread with a tone of awkwardness while acting with no conviction about anything and exhibiting nothing close to any sort of progression in his thinking.

@Gamma - how is any of this on the "scummy side of null"?

All of these reasons for TRing Creature are weak af. +1 to Gamma's 199. Feels pulled out of your ass, scum Creature fakes all of this easily.

[SirCakez]

This playerlist is good, I'm hesitant to TR most anyone here so easily.

[SirCakez]

inb4 "OMG he's throwing shade and doesn't want a town block to form!!!" arguments

[SirCakez]

vote me then

[SirCakez]

@RC

[SirCakez]

typically "those were bad posts" implies scum, yeah

[SirCakez]

Ok but how does RC blow his read accuracy if he's scum? No one would count that against him. I don't think RC is one to use this like a trust tell on the bit you said about him lying.
P-edit: essentially ninjaed

[SirCakez]

varsoon is town

[SirCakez]

the jury is still out on kokichi

[SirCakez]

His casing and attack are genuine (his reasons aren't great but that's not really important).
I don't believe Varsoon as scum would put himself out this far this early.

[SirCakez]

The stuff about the red role PM is silly. I feel like half the mods on MS don't use a consistent green town/red scum role PM scheme. I didn't even notice it and I haven't played in months.

[SirCakez]

The stuff about the red role PM is silly. I feel like half the mods on MS don't use a consistent green town/red scum role PM scheme. I didn't even notice it and I haven't played in months.

That's cause you're likely scum (kidding kinda). But, besides that. What does this have to do with Varsoon being town?

Nothing, I'm just saying it's silly. My reasoning for Varsoon town is higher up.

Also doublevoter and hated aren't AI, mods can easily put limits on those so that they don't make scum OP. I have myself b4. TRing Reck for that is BS.

[SirCakez]

Varsoon's scum because he thinks that Kokichi's faking a townslip when the natural interpretation of Kokichi's beahvior is that he's just commenting on the color, which isn't indicative either way. Varsoon's logic comes from the scum perspective of someone who himself wanted to fake a townslip by commenting on the red color, then saw that someone else already commented on the red color, and so interpreted that behavior as scummy because it was something he himself wanted to do as scum. No townie would ever interpret Kokichi's behavior as a "scummy fake townslip," it just doesn't make any sense unless Varsoon himself is scum who had that instinct himself.

The Reck townread is crap, too.

The mental gymnastics to come up with this are impressive. I laughed out loud tbh.
It is an insane theory of Varsoon's but I don't think your tinfoil makes any more sense.

[SirCakez]

Mmmk that makes more sense. But it does not ruin my TR on him. I think there's an equal chance he's just being typical Varsoon and being inane.

[SirCakez]

What's the confusion in 339?
Skitter voting Varsoon is irksome.

[SirCakez]

y

How? Varsoon has been dreadful

The progression from 321 to the Varsoon vote doesn't make sense to me.

i don't know

i definitely don't townread him

i don't get his varsoon townread; and i think his scumread on me has been kinda overblown but i'm aware that i'm prob biased so i'm trying not to let that affect my read too much; i don't think he's done much else remarkable either way

How is my scumread on you overblown? I've commented on it, like, twice.

If Varsoon is my partner no way in hell I let him bring a case on me that bad, I would actually help him construct one that can actually make some sense, and not one that everyone agrees (besides SirCakez????) is awful.

Wtf. I agree the case Varsoon made was bad, but it just doesn't make him scum.

Porkens vote on me (that entire post really) is awful too.

[SirCakez]

does porkens town play like this? His gamma vote is so bad too.

[SirCakez]

RC replacing out over this is lame af, I've been in far worse situations then this and stayed in.

[SirCakez]

The progression from 321 to the Varsoon vote doesn't make sense to me.

???

what part of it confuses you? i thought i explained myself pretty well ...

How is my scumread on you overblown? I've commented on it, like, twice.

i can understand why u didn't like my entrance; it wasnt't particularly awesome or anything

i don't really get why ur objecting to the nsg vote and i don't really get why ur objecting to the varsoon vote tho

-It looks like you're hesitant to vote Varsoon because of your past with him and then you just voted him anyway a few posts later.
-Because the progression to those votes looks unreal.

SirCake, what's your experience with scum Varsoon and track record reading him?

Street Fighter Mafia, he SCUMSLIPPED and yet got me mislynched instead the same day while I was pushing him to death (he was immediately lynched the next day). That's the one big game I remember.

SirCake, what do you think of Varsoon's lack of paranoia that I could be scum? Feels unnatural that he'd list me as a strong townread when I'm pushing his lynch the way I am and not even engaging with him or asking him questions about his thought process or motives. Like, you'd think there'd be a bit more paranoia about from town in that situation, and a bit more depth to reading the person leading their lynch, not just calling them "honest" and "gullible" and leaving it at that without further questioning.

Eh I don't think that's a big deal. I've had people tunnel me myself as town and not been suspicious they were scum.

RC replacing out over this is lame af, I've been in far worse situations then this and stayed in.

It's a scummy move, imo.

No, it's just RC being RC.

This playerlist is good, I'm hesitant to TR most anyone here so easily.

are you familiar with the playerlist and peoples scumgames...? seems like a weird comment to make no matter if the answer is yes or no.

Somewhat, I'm moreso aware most players here could easily fake the stuff Nos was getting townread for on like page 2.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: porkens
this needs death

[SirCakez]

I just skimmed and will respond to stuff in the morning but glad you're staying in RC.

[SirCakez]

Sorry for taking so long to come back; I was working all day and then saw a movie. But I'm here now!

Eh I don't think that's a big deal. I've had people tunnel me myself as town and not been suspicious they were scum.

The problem isn't lack of suspicion in general, it's lack of paranoia when he doesn't have much reason you townread me at all.

I don't get why you're sure he's town here...

I don't see that as being that indicative honestly. I think his aggressive casing and defense is more indicative of town him. IDK call it gut.

-It looks like you're hesitant to vote Varsoon because of your past with him and then you just voted him anyway a few posts later.
-Because the progression to those votes looks unreal.

VOTE: varsoon

i don't like the kokichi read and i think that kokichi's side of their argument made a lot more sense and i think that varsoon was kinda reaching to find something to scumread him for

i only played one game with him and i intially scumread him there for his tone too but i eventually realized it was a personality thing and not an alignment thing so ignored that

here i was noting that the blustery/confident tone makes me want to scumread him but since i know that he just kinda sounds like that and it isn't an alignment thing that wasn't something to scumread him for so i noted it but ignored that when trying to read him; i didn't vote him for anything to do with tone or past games, but rather because his kokichi read looked kinda trumped up to me and kinda overblown and like he was looking for something to scumread him for; i thought it was strange that he'd had such a viscerally opposite reaction to something that i was townreading

like yeah the tone was bothering me so i mentioned that but i ultimately decided it wasn't ai (or at least, ai in ways that i know how to read) so i ignored it; that's not why i voted him.

i don't know what 'the progression to those votes looks unreal' means

Ok I moreso understand the "tone" thing now. I guess I can buy it.
The "progression" bit was a response to something else in that post.
Still reading up but wanted to make my presence known.

[SirCakez]

@Creature, Cakez, NSG, Nosferatu

Can we really not lynch Porkens?

He needs death at some point for sure. He's being fucking useless and there's a decent chance he's scum. I could hold off though, he will be an easy lynch later like noted.
I don't want to lynch Irrelephant. Could do Gamma. I feel like he's been a non-presence and can't remember any of his posts, which is usually a good scum tell. Plus the case on him was good.
Also have basically no opinion on Nos or Reck so IDGAF if we lynch them.

[SirCakez]

he's done enough reading to have better thoughts than this, he just doesn't because he's scum and hiding behind his doublevoter townread lets him get away with that.
also: the doublevoter wouldn't have been nerfed if it was a town doublevoter. it's nerfed for the specific balance reason of allowing town to force him to burn it later in the game.

Reck is kinda scummy but I don't think this bit holds up. Mod could just as easily given that restriction to a town DV so that they don't become conf-town in late game.

Regardless sad to see you go Reck, you are fun to play with.

VOTE: Gamma
This can go now, haven't seen anything to change my mind.

[SirCakez]

RC slot is still town.
Varsoon is a bad Lynch.

[SirCakez]

Varsoon is a bad Lynch.

???

i've already talked about this

[SirCakez]

I'd really like if we could talk about other things, but, obviously, I'm a bit biased when it comes to that.

That said, Cakez, who do you think is a good lynch? What are your general thoughts on the game?
I haven't really heard much from you that's stuck with me.

I have a big pool of null and then a few townreads (RC slot, you, Shoshin, Irrel) and a few scumreads (Gammagooery and Porkens). P much everyone else null. I guess Reck is a little scummy but it could also just be anger at RC that I'm reading wrong.

[SirCakez]

His casing and attack are genuine (his reasons aren't great but that's not really important).
I don't believe Varsoon as scum would put himself out this far this early.

Basically this. And he reads very genuine and his frustration seems real.

Important things that have happened are a group attempt to wagon Varsoon and then Reck v RC which ended with RC being force replaced. I can't think of many really significant events. RC was driving most of the game's activity tbh.

[SirCakez]

Do you think shoshin's points against varsoon hold any water?

I see the argument and am mostly skimming it now...

Kinda but I don't think it means Vars is scum.

[SirCakez]

ummm varsoon, porkens, reck, and your slot have had most of the attention in terms of votes

Gammagooey is up there too.

I'd really like if we could talk about other things, but, obviously, I'm a bit biased when it comes to that.

That said, Cakez, who do you think is a good lynch? What are your general thoughts on the game?
I haven't really heard much from you that's stuck with me.

I have a big pool of null and then a few townreads (RC slot, you, Shoshin, Irrel) and a few scumreads (Gammagooery and Porkens). P much everyone else null. I guess Reck is a little scummy but it could also just be anger at RC that I'm reading wrong.

But who do you think is a

good lynch

?
Not just in terms of likeliness to flip scum, but also in terms of information it'd provide.

Also I'm curious about your general thoughts on the

game

, not just the playerlist.
What do you make of the initial setup talk and jockeying for Gacha?
What do you think of the exchanges between me, RC, Kokichi, Reck, etc.? I can kinda parse what reads you've come to but not entirely how you've come to them.
What do you think is keeping people from being more proactive/engaged?

To be real, I seriously expected a lot more content from you and NSG when I first looked at this playerlist.

Well if we're talking info lynches then Porkens is really good, almost everybody has a strong opinion one way or the other. And he's being useless so it's no big loss. I guess you would give us a lot of info too but I don't want to do that.
TBH I have thought very little about the Gacha. It's something I'll probably toss a vote for my strongest TR when we pick a lynch towards end day. I don't really like setup speccing.
I've been skimming a lot of the harder 1v1ing b/c it's not giving me much info really. Like the RC tunneling and the people pushing you. I could come back to this after we have some flips.
And I haven't been a huge content producer for a while now. It feels harder for me to engage games in general. Which is why I don't play like 10 games at once anymore like I used to lol.


826 reads quite fake. Like a big content dump to try to stave off the forming wagon.

[SirCakez]

Misunderstanding? No. Varsoon is scum who got caught early and now is trying to make up for it with lots of meanignless activity that hasn't actually got us any closer to finding scum and none of which actually contains anything towny. His ISO is empty of meaningful scumhunting.

So what should a townie you've decided is scum do?
Roll over and go, "Fuck this game"?
I'm not RC.

Varsoon is right on this. I've been in this situation before and being scumread even more for trying to keep playing by people tunneled on me as town is incredibly frustrating and p much Varsoon's posts are expressing that.

826 reads quite fake. Like a big content dump to try to stave off the forming wagon.

It is a big content dump and I'm aware that there are a few people voting me

I can't really point out anything new Porkens has been doing as my strongest scumread because he's done literally nothing that suggests he's even trying to scumhunt, I haven't been around for the most part since friday, and I don't think most people in the game had a decent understanding of where my reads were at prior to basically now, what do you think I'd be doing instead here?

Like from your iso it looks like the entire reason you changed from Porkens to me was because I didn't show up and town it up while I was V/LA which seems a little silly

@Varsoon - what's your strongest scumread aside from RC atm?

There was more reasoning than that. Look at the case RC made on you.

[SirCakez]

I don't think Creature mentioning you means anything Irrel.
That said I've seen scum Creature play exactly like this before and I don't think his "carefree" vibes mean much.

[SirCakez]

Info lynching Varsoon sounds hilariously bad.
Gamma Emerald is solidifying my town read on the slot.
Varsoon Irrel is not gonna happen. What's wrong w/Gammagoo wagon?

[SirCakez]

How is Emerald solidifying a townread at all with that sparse posting and line towning?

I'm not crazy about the wagon makeup on GammaGoo. Obviously, given I'm voting Irrel.

It feels like a good entrance tonewise. Like he's not hesitant to get into it or waiting assess the field.

VOTE: gammagooey

Full circle man, full circle.

what is ever going on with you

[SirCakez]

even* not ever

[SirCakez]

Hey guys I'll be here tomorrow, sorry I have been busy all day.

[SirCakez]

Gamma Emerald is solidifying my town read on the slot.

for future reference since it looks like I might be dying today Gemerald's done basically nothing except state a town read Cakez and make two tiny comments on earlygame posts

there's nothing there to reasonably townread

VOTE: SirCakez

You're misrepping my stance on Gamma's posting there. Just because he hadn't made many posts doesn't mean what he had posted isn't worthy of a townread.

can you do a quick case?
I'm usually v/la on Saturday/Sunday and I want some idea of what I'm sheeping before I sheep

i think i've talked about it before. consider for a moment that the double vote doesn't make him town. what has he done that's towny this game

I agree Reck is not particularly townie but I'm also aware that this is pretty typical Reck play and thus I don't really think that's a great lynch. Maybe worth a cop or vig.

varsoon is town

Oh fuck wait Cakez is in the game someone would get the name drop
Cakez, I think Varsoon’s play is similar to in pieguyn game, thoughts?

Which pie game lol. They all blend together.

And I realize now I got my gammas mixed up
Emerald is actually fine.

I'd take either of those right now. I think Irrel's more likely to flip scum but the combined force of Gamma's worst posts and RC's worst posts make that slot a dumpster fire for me.

Irrel's willingness to just push ANYONE through while saying scummy shit like him loving last minute wagons warrants rope, tons of it.
Gammagoo coming at me with "I Won't mention the game but varsoon was scum in a game once!" is reaching so far it puts Jordan's dunk at the end of Space Jam to shame.

I'm talking about Emerald in both these posts, should be obvious, sorry, I am literally stupid.

And I realize now I got my gammas mixed up
Emerald is actually fine.

Gooey* is actually fine
HolEEE shit

This chain of posts skeeves me out. Like did Varsoon declare a TR on Gammerald then realize that doesn't fit his tunnel of the RC slot and just pretend he got them confused??

Also I really don't want to lynch Irrelephant. Better options.
We also need to pick a gacha owner.

[SirCakez]

oooh you got me there

[SirCakez]

oooh you got me there

I never played a game modded by pie
I’m referring to the one where pie was backup IC, it was modded by GiF

I honestly can't remember this :/ Do you remember the name?

[SirCakez]

What are the consensus scumreads and why? While I intend to read it’ll be a while and I don’t want to be dead weight rn

What are the consensus scumreads and why? While I intend to read it’ll be a while and I don’t want to be dead weight rn

Hey friend, Varsoon is scum.

Don’t dodge the question like that. I asked so I could have a vote out while I was reading and so I could know who to look at quickly before I got into reading the whole thread.

Oh, I don't know who a consensus scumread is, or if there is one, but I do know that I'm town and that I'm a consensus townread.

That helps but not as much. I ask for scumreads because I can actually parse those better, as even with being consensus there may still be issues, while I’d it’s a consensus townreads it’s prolly right so there isn’t much for me to do.

Some examples
I liked p much all of his catch up posts though, just tonewise it felt like an earnest town entrance.

[SirCakez]

oooh you got me there

I never played a game modded by pie
I’m referring to the one where pie was backup IC, it was modded by GiF

I honestly can't remember this :/ Do you remember the name?

The game is called “this game is for pieguyn”, that’s really clumsy though so I call it pieguyn game

I kind of recalled it looking back at it and Varsoon was a lot more aggressive there then he was here, don't you think?

VOTE: Porkens

Gammagoo just said he was gonna vig Porkens, what is this?

Goo's claim is not necessarily auto-town, we'll see if two kills happen.
I don't really have any other strong scum reads aside from those two (Goo and Porkens :/)
Skitter has improved for me.
I guess I can do Reck to avoid a no-lynch?

[SirCakez]

So gamma is scum, varsoon is town, irrelephant is town

What else is new

[SirCakez]

Oh no what will varsoon tunnelers do now???

[SirCakez]

VOTE: gammagoo
No escape this time!

[SirCakez]

No not too quick
We need to hear from people who were obsessed with varsoon and gammagoo defenders

[SirCakez]

NSG and Kokichi are slots I'm particularly interested in now.

[SirCakez]

Nosferatu also looks considerably worse w/the Irrelephant flip and his wagon positioning.

[SirCakez]

I agree Porkens is less likely scum.
Gamma vig could also be b/c he was likely gonna die anyway because no died from vigging.

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE:
No fucking selfhammer

Gamma gimme like one good reason not to park both my votes on you the rest of the day you turd

R u srs

[SirCakez]

can u not porkens
can someone else unvote i don't trust this goober

[SirCakez]

oh wait majority is 7 now
still dislike that pork vote

[SirCakez]

porkens gets off the wagon before lynch or he's claiming scum

[SirCakez]

Why would gamma shoot him tho lol. He would have probably been a mislynch probably.

I've been thinking about this and most likely Varsoon rbed the scum attacker last night, as he crumbed that in his first post (Creature already pointed this out earlier on). And Gamma was near conf scum anyways because Pork didn't die and he hammered a MASON claim.

[SirCakez]

Yeah Porkens has got to go before LyLo. Even if he's town I don't trust him to play it out right.

[SirCakez]

i was in this game once

[SirCakez]

i can't believe porkens lived to the end
from what I remember he was universally scumread and everybody agreed he was dying before LyLo
wtf