Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: SirCakez

Was anyone here in the previous TAZ game?

[Irrelephant11]

policy lynch this

no thanks

VOTE: skitter30

Gachapon vote: Shoshin

[Irrelephant11]

Ok great
It wasn't clear? since you moved your vote
But I believe you so. great

[Irrelephant11]

I have a very exciting thing to announce: one person from the winning faction of this game will receive a copy of the first volume of the graphic novel adaptation of The Adventure Zone! you'll need to be someone who 1)doesn't already own it, 2)lives somewhere where shipping from the United States isn't outrageously overpriced, and 3)is comfortable providing me with your mailing address. other than that it'll be a random person from the winning faction, or if for some reason there is no one from the winning faction who wants it, a random player.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will always gladly receive this if others aren't interested

VOTE: Reck
This is gonna be a good game

[Irrelephant11]

wow called out

wassup

[Irrelephant11]

so's mine on reck
you wanna talk about it orrr

[Irrelephant11]

he has two posts so far:
-ignoring RVS
-voting RC

He's here, but hasn't done anything towny. Seems like more than half the playerlist is eager to spew their town alignment, and he is not, and so I'm voting him. Also another thing that may or may not be a thing later

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin's town, guys

Can't wait for Trolls 2

My Reck vote wasn't "ignoring RVS is scummy and voting RC is scummy"
It was about 30% "So far I'm lightly townreading a lot of players that have posted, but not Reck" , 50% "let's see what NSG does when I sheep her", and 20% "what can I do to get people talking"
NSG why did you vote Reck?

he has two posts so far:
-ignoring RVS
-voting RC

He's here, but hasn't done anything towny. Seems like more than half the playerlist is eager to spew their town alignment, and he is not, and so I'm voting him. Also another thing that may or may not be a thing later

what if i told you there was a good reason i did both of these things

I am curious to hear these reasons alos

[Irrelephant11]

k
VOTE: skitter

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin's town, guys

ye probs

I am curious to hear these reasons alos

he's a double-voter; look at the vc

lol can't believe I missed this I was staring at the post where he quoted the VC like "what? what is he saying?"
interesting. Is my inclination to assume double voters are usually town correct?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I definitely am but you can catch on at your own pace

what do you think of creature?

[Irrelephant11]

BoP BoP BoP
BoP to the top

VOTE: nsg

[Irrelephant11]

RC I think you'd either Russell Hantz it or Cirie Fields it
Depends on your real life personality

I'm somewhat townreading RC for engaging Shoshin in this way/Shoshin suggesting she townreads RC (she's better at reading him than me)

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin what's your read on RC/the level of it?

Creature: townlean
Gammagooey: scumlean, but prolly not with nos
Kokichi: I like your idea of tying the gachapon if the winner isn't announced, but I don't like your iso. But meh, "hated" probably isn't the opposite alignment as the double voter. Townlean.
nsg: sheeping RC's scumlean for now
noferatu: scumlean, but prolly not with gamma
Porkens: townlean?
SirCakez: townlean
skitter: townlean
Varsoon: whatever
Reck: double voter is probably town?

Yay everyone but varsoon has done something AI already this really is gonna be a good game
ask for reasons if you're curious just thought I'd throw my attempt at reads in the thread

[Irrelephant11]

Because it looks towny to defend Nos and he gets to pocket Nos a little too
Then when he was pressured about it he basically said "I did say it was dumb so just kinda stop asking me about it pls"

[Irrelephant11]

Because it looks towny to defend Nos and he gets to pocket Nos a little too
Then when he was pressured about it he basically said "I did say it was dumb so just kinda stop asking me about it pls"

What looks towny about defending Nos? I don't get that at all.

Gamma's town, though. I don't think scum would read into Nos the way he did.

[Irrelephant11]

Porkens is kinda gutpinging me as scum. Why are u maybe town on him?

Same but

Why isn't Gamma lynched yet?

seemed more likely to come from town than scum
Definitely my weakest townlean

[Irrelephant11]

Prettyy much ready to locktown Shoshin & RC (and by extension probably creature, I guess?)
At least till D2.

[Irrelephant11]

because Shoshin is and I don't care to do elsewise

[Irrelephant11]

I would like to begin this post by saying that RC would totally Russell Hantz it on Survivor and while he is still a townread he is not locktown anymore. There, I said it. Moving on.

i read up to page 7 then realized nothing was happening so i skipped the last 4 pages

yea im a doublevoter but only for the first person i vote each day

Then why would you waste that so early

Same question

I think Gacha should be me, but if not me, then it should be Radiant. It should not be Kokichi, and it definitely shouldn't be Reck who isn't even reading the game.

So the only way Shoshin is scum is if it's with RC I think but for now neither of them is scum so yeah Shoshin should get gachapon votes

Hated's a trash modifier that indicates design-flaw and should probably be lynched regardless, as I'm reading hated as more likely scum than town in this setup.
But also I don't like Kokichi's main focus being on getting Gacha and mentions of himself as town/townread.
255, 232, 43, 30
Firstpost far too much tips at the role PM being red (thinking he was scum) that it strikes me as scum trying to manufacture a 'townslip' based on how peculiar they thought the sample role/their fakeclaim was in looks. Need to go back to the previous game, though, and see if the different color formatting/fakeclaims is in the mod meta, though, otherwise regardless it just bothers me.

This is such a

trash

breakdown

I get it

Umm yeah this analysis of Kokichi isn't very good and I'm at this point already scumreading Varsoon but I will say I wouldn't be surprised if scum was more than happy to jump on Varsoon's case here if he's town - it's overly easy to take apart.

Hey Varsoon, are you going to vote Shoshin for saying he should get Gacha votes?

'cus Shoshin doesn't strike me as scum, just gullible.

I think Gacha should be me, but if not me, then it should be Radiant. It should not be Kokichi, and it definitely shouldn't be Reck who isn't even reading the game.

Reck's reading--if you think he's not, you've been duped.

Gullible??
Duped???
Like yeah Reck is probably reading but I don't know who's doing the duping in this scenario
And yeah I can see how you're disagreeing with Shoshin given your very opposite view of the game state but who is the one tricking Shoshin, who seems to actually be the one leading many players to various reads?

varsoon is town

disagree, but you can be town

the jury is still out on kokichi

fair
maybe soon we'll find out

@Skitter:

I have a hard townread on Reck.

Furthermore, I didn't like the way the gacha votes were going and wanted to throw a wrench in that. Even furthermore, I knew the positions re: Reckoner and Gatcha and knew if I came in with a starkly different opinion that it would create discussion and game momentum. It's the best way for me to get involved in the game, too, because before these last few posts I haven't really been engaged.

I read the whole game when it happened but have not since returned to it.

I'm not saying you are pocketed, just that it stinks of testing a pocket--like seeing how far you'd townread a claimed townread.

Shoshin's rhetoric (both in explaining their own play and convincing others) has been very straightforward--I 100% believe that Shoshin saw Reck write that he wasn't reading and took that to be literally true. Shoshin did not push Reck for further game engagement or read the 'not reading' thing as a strat to not engage with a few pages of content; Shoshin seems to, again, have just taken it literally.

-Hard townread on Reck? Why? Role spec?
-I have no clue what you're trying to say about Shoshin here

I have a hard townread on Reck. Furthermore, I didn't like the way the gacha votes were going and wanted to throw a wrench in that. Even furthermore, I knew the positions re: Reckoner and Gatcha and knew if I came in with a starkly different opinion that it would create discussion and game momentum.

This is kind of a contradiciton? Because you're saying that you townread him. So why should it matter why you put the gacha vote. But, then you state later you just voted him for it to create a discussion. But, you still aren't even explaining why you townread reck

The fuck I gotta explain a townread for?
And it's hardly a contradiction to townread someone and gacha vote someone and say that I did it all to also create discussion.
I don't ever have to claim any of my reads and I could've held my gacha vote, too.
C'mon, step it up senpai. You're too busy tryin'a poke holes in me that you're just looking desperate.

kokichi makes a fair point that "it was for townread" and "it was for discussion", while not directly contradictory, do seem to both be fighting for space in your mind, like you can't decide which it is. not sure I scumread it, but I do scumread you refusing to explain a townread. Unless it gives scum setup info it's always good to explain a townread. It's often even good to explain a nullread, for that matter

Varsoon's scum because he thinks that Kokichi's faking a townslip when the natural interpretation of Kokichi's beahvior is that he's just commenting on the color, which isn't indicative either way. Varsoon's logic comes from the scum perspective of someone who himself wanted to fake a townslip by commenting on the red color, then saw that someone else already commented on the red color, and so interpreted that behavior as scummy because it was something he himself wanted to do as scum. No townie would ever interpret Kokichi's behavior as a "scummy fake townslip," it just doesn't make any sense unless Varsoon himself is scum who had that instinct himself.

The Reck townread is crap, too.

You get really strong reads from small things and while it's impressive it's not 100% accurate and I'd just like to note that here so I remember to measure Varsoon against my own gut/logic and not just your thoughts.
At the same time, I have come to a pretty similar conclusion on his slot so far so this is fine.

@Skitter: Oh! You meant this game! I thought you meant the previous game with the Adventure Zone flavor. Yes--I've also been reading this entire game as it's been posted.

I guess that I've played the 'lets discuss this mechanic's best use' card a lot as scum (see: Color Mafia games) and I've seen scum do it a lot early-game in my own public-mechanic heavy games, so it's a strategy I tend to associate with scum.

Shoshin is for sure sincere, but I feel like they're not looking beyond what people are saying at face-value.

Sorry if my tone is weird--I'm probably gonna be really weird this game in general since I'm working full time which is usually not something I've done while playing mafia. So we'll see how it goes.

The tone apology here is interesting. I definitely read this post as being a different tone. I'm curious if you'd think to make a tone switch as scum v. naturally make a tone switch as town

VOTE: unvote

I'm townreading RC now. more posts make it clearer.

VOTE: cakez

and sheeping

i'm not, like, voting cakez

yeah, huh. I'll wait for a Porkens explanation before voting there

VOTE: Varsoon for a variety of pretty good reasons that have already been said, even though the skill of this playerlist makes me feel like this is too obvious. Not sure where else to turn rn, though, so.

@RC do you still want a nsg lynch?

[Irrelephant11]

Because I don't want him on my back

[Irrelephant11]

What's your read on RC currently?
Also @Reck how good are you at reading RC in general?

[Irrelephant11]

We have played a single game together where I was scum and he was town and he locktowned me.

I would Lynch him outright for his play thus far.

Are you talking about me or Reck here
I have a lot of negative feelings about you as a player rn so my short answer for your slot is "let Shoshin figure it out, re-evaluate d2"
Independently I'm slightly scumreading you so far but I can't tell how much of that is my feelings so like I said

[Irrelephant11]

ok

Creature where you at?
Calling me out then going awol
rude

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I'll get over it by D2, can't talk about it anyway, it's fine

[Irrelephant11]

what makes this game "like this"

Eh only answer that if the answer is interesting/helpful to understanding the game state I guess

[Irrelephant11]

If you think Shoshin is gullible who's tricking her?
Who do you think duped her into thinking Reck isn't reading?

What causes your townread of Reck to be so strong? (sorry if I've missed the answer to this somewhere)

What were you saying about Shoshin in 303?

What made you feel the need to apologize for tone?

[Irrelephant11]

It's weird that you're voting me and simultaneously all "Oh, this is where I would see scum jumping on this wagon."

Is it weird? I don't know your alignment, so I have to keep both things in my head. Why is it weird?

Also, damn, apologies for being the first person to drop an ACTUAL CASE on a player this game, it blows my mind that so many people think it's bad but don't spend any fucking time detailing why.

I can see why this would be frustrating you. Does this say something about the alignment of the players scumreading you? Or does it maybe suggest you're just wrong about Kokichi? Or is there any other conclusion you can draw from this frustration?

[Irrelephant11]

oh
sure

ummmm but why did you use up your double vote power so early?

[Irrelephant11]

brain check, sweaty

sick burn

[Irrelephant11]

I'm leaning Irrelephant for last scum

lol

I'm in one games too many rn so I've picked this one to be on the backburner for a bit
I'll come back to it soon

[Irrelephant11]

Produce for the weekend
I think my vote might be in the right place for now, catch up tonorrow

[Irrelephant11]

Catching up, anyone want to make it more fun by conversing/telling me what to look for?

My tone seems to have been giving skitter issues with read clarity on my slot, and I know that my infrequent schedule is likely to add to that. I was apologizing mostly for not being able to be here consistently, though, since I feel like consistent play is one of the best means of producing content that'll get you read clearly.

the schedule thing doesn't really matter much to me so long as you don't like randomly disappear into the aether; your activity is fine imo

but yeah i'm having trouble parsing the tone thing conclusively either way

i'm going to admit to being a little paranoid that you're being conciliatory/non-aggressive to me cuz i was willing-to-hear-you-out and it's making me wonder if you're like trying to like get me on ur side or to like pocket me a bit if that makes sense

@SirCakez: In my experience, Porkens is far more madcap and frustrating.

does he usually like read the game?


==

Skitter, what're your reads?

something like

{}
{irrel, you}
{kokichi}
{nsg, reck, nos, gamma, creature, sircakez} - null
{porkens}
{}
{}

i don't know where to put rc or varsoon right now

pretty sure all of {you/irrel/kokichi} are town

nsg i'm not super good at reading and doesn't have enough content either way; i want to scumread her for inactivity/apathy but i've been told that's not hte right way to read her even though that seems to work for me, so idk; either way she doesn't have enough content really

i feel like nos is the sort of player whose playstyle i don't know how to read; nothing he's said has been ai much; i've only played with him once and i was scum and he was in a hydra and lurked for half the game so that overall id on't think that's going to be super helpful here

i don't really have thoughts on gamma, he just kinda is; same with sircakez really

reck's role i think is marginally more likely to be town but i dont' particularly townread his play; overall i don't feel super strongly about him either way

i feel underwhelmed by creature but it's only been a couple of irl days and his sig literally says he can't post on thursdays so he can have a few more days

porkens is kinda wtf-y and i kinda gut scumread him for his ~RVS posts and his later posts are bad but they're bad to the level of almost being comical and they indicate that he isn't really reading the game and idk unless he like legit hates scum and doesn't care enough to bother going through the motions of reading the game i don't know what he's doing here as scum.

like voting someone because 'you say i'm null/towny but vote for me anyways so it sounds like you want to get a wagon on me' or something to that effect when gamma hadn't said that is just like ... bad but i feel like scum would want to accurately find out why they're being voted instead of just vaguely skimming things so that they can respond apropriately? but i feel like town would care about that too so overall idk right now; like i kinda scumread him but i'm not sure if what he's doing actually comes from scum if that makes sense

i don't really like rc's side of his fight with varsoon and i don't much like the aftermath either and i don't know why it's a fight to begin with and he seemed to have put words into varsoon's mouth and his reaction to being scumread is to replace out is kinda bad but idk if that's ai really for him. or at least, ai in ways that i can read. and i think i'm just going to wait till after he's replaced to try to figure the slot out because i don't think i can read him super well anyways with any sort of confidence

and varsoon i didn't like his kokichi case but i kinda like many of his later posts and he seems kinda sincere to me; i'm still working on coming to a firm conclusion but i'm tending town for now

i don't super feel like i have a very good grasp on this playerlist yet and i have a lot of nullreads but idk how to read the things they've posted thus far

pretty sure all of {you/irrel/kokichi} are town

Why Irrelephant & Kokichi?

irrelephant because he keeps on bringing up things at just the same time i was thinking them (188 + much of 172 + 417)

+ tone feels good (ie feels very relaxed + carefree + non-agenda-y + go-with-the-flow-y)

+ his read on u and rc in extension make a lot of sense given past games (ie american presidents mafia and how he treated you there)

kokichi because i think trying to tie the gacha thing is town-motivated + how he defended doing so + his outrage at varsoon not understanding him felt real

==

@varsoon i don't have a serious case on porkens beyond what i just said; not entirely sure how to get someone to engage when they're clearly not reading the game tbh

I want to be wrong but something about you feels more mechanical than usual
Also I'm a little surprised you find me easy to read now
Also I'm bad at reading you so we'll see where this goes

you think that the townread on reck is really just something he kind of made up? i couldn't imagine why. it seemed to me like something else was going on there.

Curious what this means. I read the rest of this conversation and still don't understand

We have plenty of strong enough townreads to go PoEing this game.

Hoping this is true. I am townreading creature

[Irrelephant11]

Oh hi SirCakez
What are some important things that have happened in your opinion? Anything very alignment spewy? I especially see you're townreading Varsoon. Why?

[Irrelephant11]

Do you think shoshin's points against varsoon hold any water?

I see the argument and am mostly skimming it now...

[Irrelephant11]

lol

If Irre is town we have a pure wagon on Varsoon.

I had this thought

VOTE: porkens

i'm fine with this wagon. i know that porkens is normally kind of a zany guy but here it feels more like he's using that as an excuse for not actually doing anything rather than just having it be a part of the way that he scumhunts and plays the game. i suppose it's possible that i'm speaking from an outdated picture of how he plays, but for now i'm fine with it.

Interesting. This over any townreads?

What's your readslist?

don't really have anything all that specific

creature, sircakez, shoshin, maybe nosferatu town

reck and porkens scum

you've probably already read what i said but i kind of lean towards your slot being more likely town

looking at the playerlist irrelephant is someone whose posts i don't actually really remember reading, which might be indicative in itself

Yeah I mostly haven't been here, did you go and check after saying this? Like sometimes I think this and it turns out it's just 'cause of posting style or v/la or their profile picture looking similar to another player who I attributed all their posts to. The fact your vote is on me based on this (?? I'm watching for a case) is bad.

A case on me

This whole case relies on me being better at town than I am. RC knows I'm only average at town (though I do try hard), and in the process of writing this case blows a lot of things out of proportion & scumreads not understanding my mindset. We're just different people.
But also, mostly I'm quoting this post so I can say #calledit. I express my townread on him is just so he'll leave me alone, and that I have a scumlean, aaaaand suddenly I pop into his scumreads. Whatever. Makes me not want to read RC posts (but I will, don't @ me).

VOTE: Irrelephant btw

lol

I'm accepting that my slot is going to be the lynch because of how much I'm going to call out scum over the next few posts and I won't feel too bad about it.

My

word

this is ott.

This is gonna be a lot less detailed because it's mostly gut, but this read is only minimally less certain than the one that preceded it. It's just a lot more gut and a lot less easy to explain.

@koki & RC - why do you think NSG is likely scum here? Cause her reads and posts that she's made so far seem perfectly fine to me, the only real complaint I'd have about her is that she doesn't seem as aggressive about her reads as she was in the one town game I've seen her in but I think that makes sense given that game was a large and this is a mini that just started this week.

not personally I don't think, reck vs pie in face-to-face mafia is pretty magical though

if you're confident enough to basically declare "If I'm wrong about this I'm scum and you should lynch me" then I can mayyybe deal with it but otherwise I'd much rather see you actually try to explain it through whatever combination of gut feeling descriptions and playstyle quirks that you can.

That 'one complaint' thing is textbook scum talking about town that other town are pushing: set yourself up as townreading them but being 'open enough' to being persuaded to justify a transition if the case is good enough to get a lynch through. The second one is full on scum!Gamma hoping that I'm wrong and willing to all in on this and take a mislynch.

Also, I disagree with NSG that Nos feels town (what's "natural" about calling RC scummy and then doubling down with shitposting?), and I don't see where Gamma got the idea that Nos scumread RC for spamposting nor do I see how his logic makes any sense?

he's not scumreading RC for spamposting as far as I can tell

RC was spamposting early on (or at least had the most posts in the game at the time with content that I think was meaningless) and Nos trying to irritate that type of player early just seems dumb to do as scum.

This is a lazy TMI read on town: I've seen scum come up these kinds of reads a ridiculous amount.
Would it possibly be town? Yes- but tonally it feels scum even though I can't do much to substantiate that.

Not going to copy in quotes but I don't think that town!Gamma would be as invested in fighting the Creature townread, I think that it's fairly likely to come from Scum!Gamma who isn't happy about the number of mutual townreads flying around making the lynchpool extremely scarce.

Like his best post so far is #113 which is fine but not amazing and everything else feels between null and bad, and given the amount of people scumreading him to some extent it feels like we can make a real actual wagon happen even though nobody else is actually voting him right now.

The phrasing of this is just really scummy, I think a few other people touched base on it.

so varsoon having a weird-ass read on reck seems well within what he could do as either alignment and I feel like half of the last like 8 pages has just been people spiraling off of that into deeper and deeper quoteholes with him and whoever he's arguing with scumreading each other. varsoon had a pretty good point deep in there about RC playing dishonestly given RC's posts saying that varsoon was townreading him when he never did and this 'reasonable dude vs horrible assholes' thing

This is the holy grail thing that I think is basically scumfirming but fuck if I can explain it to anyone in a viable way.

I guess that's the best I can do here but there's a lot of stuff in this ISO that vibes scum and every mutual interaction with Irrelephant and I feel p confsies this is 2/3.

Kokichi is my best guess for the third.

I guess RC isn't here to talk about this but this case mostly just "he feels bad to me and if Irrelephant is scum so is Gamma" so I'm mostly going to ignore it. I'll look into the "fighting Creature townreads" thing later.

i made the mistake of not organizing my reads into a list at the start of the game so i cant remember my reads

I feel

My lynchpool is irrel gamma reckoner rn

@Creature, Cakez, NSG, Nosferatu

Can we really not lynch Porkens?

sure, i'm willing to put Lorne's off for later. thinking my lack of memory of irrelephqnt is likely indicative, can elaborate more later

VOTE: irrel

this
this is why you're voting me?
Anyone else feel like they can confidently read nsg? 'Cause now I'm starting to feel like nsg and RC's slot are scum together and RC only pushed on her out of "I can read her well" obligation until he realized most townies didn't feel the same so he could drop it and they could townread each other
Outside of this v weak vote from nsg though I think I remember nsg looking towny so maybe I'm just annoyed

Irrelephant strongly prefers scum and plays with much more of an agenda than he's had here.

to the rescue!

[Irrelephant11]

for the record I don't remember having any strong read on Gamma or Reck, I'm mostly just responding about RC's slot above

[Irrelephant11]

#awk
When you say "above" and the post is on the last page

Irrelephant? Yes, I can read him. At least I haven't been wrong yet. In two games. Not a large sample size.

But I've read his games as both town and scum and know the difference. I understand all your concerns, because he tends to go with the flow and to sheep a lot more as town in a way that seems opportunistic at times, but the reality is he's usually really lost as town and tends to not know what he's doing whereas he loves to be scum and usually plays much more confidently with a very clear scum agenda. If he were actively leading his own pushes and doing townie things to try make us think he was town, I'd probably have him as null and most everyone else would think he's town, and he'd probably be scum.

Ouch, true

I can read NSG better than you

You said yourself I have never seen your scum game

I don't have a scum game. Like, there's nothing there.

From reading her meta this is true AF
Anyone who isn't hard townreading Shoshin is incorrect

I still say Varsoon is the best lynch today

I mean I'm certainly still interested in it rn

this is xyzzy, your moderator, your best friend, and your chiropractor. your back is all fucked up and I'm gonna fix it!

I love these

Sircakez
Nosferatu

all strong townreads

i don't see either of these

like i don't really scumread either of them but i don't townread either of them either

==

I was gonna like pretend to scumread you or something to keep you alive but I don't think that's a play suitable to this gamestate in hindsight.

so i take it you're townreading her then?

her posts around you saying this feel kinda town too

==

VOTE: Irrelephant
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Gammagooey

i believe this is all 3 scum.

i'm townreading both irrelephant and kokichi

like i'm reading your irrelphant case and you say a lot of words but never it is really convincing or anything; i think his townread of shoshin makes sense and that he'd be willing to sheep her on you for now tbh

==

gamma feels kinda .... hollow to me? that might be a good word. like his posts are there but lack motivation. i realize i'm not explaining what i'm seeing well but i don't know how to articulate this better rn

==

619 is the first actually scummy post i've seen from porkens

actually 630-635 feel kinda townie to me in like a clueless sort of way

he feels kinda like lynchbait and i'm not entirely sure why he's the leading wagon at this point tbh

==

I can't read varsoon because his push on me is fucking gross and I tried to read him via associatives instead.

I can't give a useful read on him.

eh this feels kinda town

==

the way rc is interacting with shoshin on page 28 feels off; kinda like he's pocketing and/or manipulating her into agreeing with his lynch list

==

ok i'm no longer reading reck's posts about rc or rc's posts about reck; reading arguments like this kinda stresses me out

this game feels liek people are holding grudges over games gone by and are taking it out on this game and it's making this game low key not super enjoyable for me

This is actually a really good post
You can be townlean for now

Sus peeps not striked out rn

i didnt tier my list at the start so i can't tier now

xRECKONERx
Gammagooey
Varsoon

skitter30

northsidegal

Kokichi Oma

Irrelephant11

RadiantCowbells

Porkens

Creature

SirCakez
Shoshin

???
mm
Actually
This makes some sense. I guess I just think you should townread Shoshin more. And maybe SirCakez.

this might seem really unfair to skitter but the fact that she's pushed on all of my scumreads makes me think that she's a lot more likely to be scum bussing
I also haven't gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that I'm supposed to have from her by now.

but I"m not explicitly feeling her as scum either, so that's something?

Really? I kind of understand the ~vibes~ thing but that's also kind of a parrot of Shoshin from earlygame and also the above skitter post is pretty towny
annnnnd I'm responding to a player that isn't here. Well, anyway.

Shoshin, stop pushing the line that I'm scumreading Kokichi for play I was making--that's a gross misrepresentation of both my reasons for having an early scumread there, my reasons for loudly pushing it, and the reality of my situation not even being the same as Kokichi's. You getting hung up on a lie of a detail is clouding your judgment and keeping you from moving on to form much better reads than an incorrect scumread on me.

I thought I was "honest town" but now I'm a liar? And you're still not scumeading me?

RC, please lynch this.

Shoshin, I have yet to do this myself, but out of curiosity have you re-read all of your interactions with Varsoon? Just wondering if this is mostly misunderstanding. Like I don't townread Varsoon but I do also stand by my earlier guess that he might just be in the lynchbait spot. I'm townreading you lots so you're not the scum here but is it possible it's just playstyle differences?
Feel free to say no just want to see you talk/think about him in a different way and see if the read holds

this might seem really unfair to skitter but the fact that she's pushed on all of my scumreads makes me think that she's a lot more likely to be scum bussing
I also haven't gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that I'm supposed to have from her by now.

but I"m not explicitly feeling her as scum either, so that's something?

1. You had me in your list of townreads earlier so you're going to have to explain how you went from townreading me to not having 'gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that you're supposed to have from me by now'

2. I play mafia by looking at a given scenario and aggregating similar scenarios ive seen in the past in order to try to figure out if things are more likely to come feom town or scum. A few months back i played a game with scum!you where you picked a fight with someone i look up to in order to get him mislynched and to create a gamestate where you can manipulate people; you got me to mislynch math, pressure the cop to out for you by pocketing me, and mislynch someone else for you after you were dead. That game makes me very, very wary about you and your abiliity to manipulate me; i dont think i can confidently read or trust you after that. I dont think its fair of you to complain that your playstyle makes me scumread you when you created this dynamic by what you did in that game; its not like this is something im pulling out of thin air

3. I deal with anxiety irl and i have a lot of trouble dealing with interpersonal conflict for a variety of reasons; it stresses me out a lot and it's not something i can process or handle easily, even when im not directly involved. Within the context of a game its fine but when things get personal it messes with my ability to process what's happening and i kinda get stuck on the conflict; your arguments with varsoon and reck are tilting me out of being able to read this game and both you and reck. Its making this game unenjoyable for me. Im trying to get past it but atm i cant read u or reck and so im trying to figure out what to do about it. Reck's gone so i think i want to start with a replacement anew; i wanted to do that with u but you're here so i can't do that. The best way i think i can resolve u is to sheep people i trust who i think can read you but im not confident enough to do that just yet; i dont trust enough people that strongly atm

Agreeing to lynch reck (who i cant read right now) on your request (who i cant read right now) is idiotic and like the dumbest thing i can do this game, no matter how pissed it makes you or the fact that it seems to make you retaliatory scumread me

This also seems like town skitter
Though I wonder if that's because she's finally passionate about the game because she has to defend herself
Probably not, simpler answer is skitter is town, which I think I'm going to settle on for the game day

I'm back? Cool.

Let me try to figure out what I think of each slot from memory, with the caveat that I've been hurricane drunk for the entirety of this game so bear with me:

Gamma: Hasn't interacted w/ me much, in fact has only mentioned me a couple of times in passing while interacting w/ other people, trying to avoid me?
Varsoon: successfully navigated to my D1 blind spot so not gonna worry about him right now
skitter: pinging me as scum tbh. all posting just feels super noncommittal and fencesitty.
northsidegal: Honestly IDK how to read her. I think there was a game where I just read her incorrectly for like 70% of the game until the last second.
Kokichi: lots of attacks on people with cool adjectives instead of cool logic and reasoning. dislike. maybe scum.
Irrelephant: null. i feel nothing from their posts.
RC: scum who is trying to emulate what RC thinks he's like as town when in actuality he's just ringing as hollow and empty and overkill. very similar to team mafia play.
Porkens: idfk man. a whole pile of nothingness so far. need content.
Nosferatu: ill be honest i dont recall any posts that nosferatu has made so far
Creature: uhhh i remember early few pages of creature posting looked good? then i kinda havent paid attention since then
SirCakez: see nosferatu
Shoshin: Generally Competent Posting (tm)

Okay well now hopefully I can contribute more than this garbage readslist but I really really don't have time to go back and reread so if there's something people want me to address specifically I'd be happy to otherwise yippee ki yay let's play some mafia

I'd like to see you do more work to sort nsg/varsoon/kokichi and the thought processes that get you there. Even if the end result is the same as the above

VOTE: varsoon

porkens is town and if we keep votes on him hes gonna do something dumb o/

I don't really understand your play here this game
I'm gonna ISO you later but for now - why Varsoon?
And why is Porkens town?

Hehe

Glad I stood out of this game for a while

right same

Did abselephant do anything?

why do you keep calling me out though

Serious, though, what's up with this wack game momentum?
We've been playing a whole week and the largest thing to happen so far was my push and the interactions that came out of that.
Why isn't anyone else making waves?
I know scum are very likely to try to sit back and play their cards close to their chest due to the mechanical systems at play and because I'm town but damn

I mean the wack game momentum was definitely do to most players going "personal attacks are getting personal everyone hang on to somethinggg"
I have no clue what your reads are and maybe that's my fault but I feel like it's yours?
I just ISO'd you to see if that statement was fair and my analysis is "mostly, yeah" though I did forget your very clearly stated scumread of RC
But like, who's town? You've referenced "obvious town" that others "still think are scum". Who's that?

[Irrelephant11]

nosferatu's ISO is somethinggg. I'm not sure what.
kokichi's ISO isn't as towny as I remembered
Reck annoys me a little and has given v little AI content outside of the policy vote & argument with RC but hopefully both those things will change soon
Gammagooey's ISO is actually mostly crap (no offense)

Let's see, off the top of my head, reads are

Shoshin
creature
nsg
skitter
sircakez
kokichi
nosferatu
Gamma E
Porkens
Varsoon
Reck
Gamma G

Players are not equidistant, there's like a gap after NSG and another after Gamma E

which is weirdly close to RC's reads so maybe he was town after all
Or
orrrrr
Let's lynch skitter

[Irrelephant11]

I have no clue but probably I try real hard to interact with her exactly like I have this game, it seems to have gotten me a townread from her

I don't understand why I can't say that Varsoon is scummy and lynchbaity - they're two different ways to describe the same thing and the latter is just more accurate if I think he happens to flip green in the end. Like I have little to townread him for, there's clearly interest and (admittedly better than my own, since I've been somewhat absent) reasoning from other townies in lynching him, and yet the gamestate is in such a weird state (and kind of has been since game start) that I'm paranoid about his lynch. All of those are true.

I'm surprised you find me easy to read because you reallllly didn't in American Presidents but also I guess those reasons make sense as to why

Um do you look at that Reck readslist and understand why he said what he did about nsg, varsoon, or kokichi? I understand some of his other reads but I want to know his reasoning there and even if it doesn't change anything when he thinks about it again I'll be able to tell better if he's faking those reads for an agenda or really feels that way
Actually, why discredit that question as "busywork"? That's a super normal request and I'm annoyed you made me feel defensive about it

I'll respond about "really good post" in a minute, will require its own post

[Irrelephant11]

Sircakez
Nosferatu

all strong townreads

i don't see either of these

like i don't really scumread either of them but i don't townread either of them either

==

I was gonna like pretend to scumread you or something to keep you alive but I don't think that's a play suitable to this gamestate in hindsight.

so i take it you're townreading her then?

her posts around you saying this feel kinda town too

==

VOTE: Irrelephant
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Gammagooey

i believe this is all 3 scum.

i'm townreading both irrelephant and kokichi

like i'm reading your irrelphant case and you say a lot of words but never it is really convincing or anything; i think his townread of shoshin makes sense and that he'd be willing to sheep her on you for now tbh

==

gamma feels kinda .... hollow to me? that might be a good word. like his posts are there but lack motivation. i realize i'm not explaining what i'm seeing well but i don't know how to articulate this better rn

==

619 is the first actually scummy post i've seen from porkens

actually 630-635 feel kinda townie to me in like a clueless sort of way

he feels kinda like lynchbait and i'm not entirely sure why he's the leading wagon at this point tbh

==

I can't read varsoon because his push on me is fucking gross and I tried to read him via associatives instead.

I can't give a useful read on him.

eh this feels kinda town

==

the way rc is interacting with shoshin on page 28 feels off; kinda like he's pocketing and/or manipulating her into agreeing with his lynch list

==

ok i'm no longer reading reck's posts about rc or rc's posts about reck; reading arguments like this kinda stresses me out

this game feels liek people are holding grudges over games gone by and are taking it out on this game and it's making this game low key not super enjoyable for me

This is a great post because
1 Agreed that nosferatu and sircakez are hard to sort (doesn't feel like random shade throwing)
2 I had the same thought process around RC flipping on nsg: "oh so it's a townread?? Well, I actually agree"
3 If you're scum good job pocketing me; I also thought his case on me was weak
4 I felt this about Gamma but

more importantly

, I felt this about

yo

u until you got bold enough to call it out in someone else.
5 Yeah like what?? I saw a vc with Porkens in the lead and was like "wait, who even voted him? When? Why? I don't get him being the lead wagon, esp. with both RC and Shoshin doing their darndest to pull votes onto two scummier players"
... Well actually I disagree with you about RC feeling towny in that post, but
6 I think this seems like genuine paranoia about an RC scum agenda here

So, to summarize, it's mostly mindmeld. But I really liked the moment where you called out someone else for feeling hollow because I think scum skitter who has been called out as feeling "off" would know that trying to get in a mislynch on someone for feeling "off" will set a precedent that draws attention to herself (especially in a game with Shoshin), not to mention it's just true about Gamma.

[Irrelephant11]

this is xyzzy, your moderator, your best friend, and Earth's last hope. I'm gonna negotiate with these aliens and then I'm gonna save the planet!

votecount 1.14

5 players voting for Porkens (Gammagooey, Creature, SirCakez, northsidegal, Nosferatu)

3 players voting for RadiantCowbells (xRECKONERx, xRECKONERx, Varsoon)
3 players voting for Varsoon (Shoshin, Kokichi Oma, Irrelephant11)
1 player voting for Irrelephant11 (RadiantCowbells)

2 players not voting for lynch (skitter30, Porkens)

with 14 votes, it takes 8 to lynch.

3 players voting for Shoshin for Fantasy Gachapon (Irrelephant11, Gammagooey, skitter30)
2 players voting for xRECKONERx for Fantasy Gachapon (Varsoon, xRECKONERx)
1 player voting for Kokichi Oma for Fantasy Gachapon (Kokichi Oma)
1 player voting for RadiantCowbells for Fantasy Gachapon (Shoshin)

6 players not voting for Fantasy Gachapon (northsidegal, RadiantCowbells, Porkens, Nosferatu, Creature, SirCakez)

the current day will end in (expired on 2018-09-24 17:00:00).

mod notes: I interpreted 576 as a vote for Gammagooey -- in theory, the other votes existed for a bit, but because neither of them ended the day, they don't affect anything.

The underlined wagon is extremely notable to me
Willing to bet there's 1 if not 2 scum in {Porkens, Gamma G, Nosferatu}

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Gammagooey

[Irrelephant11]

oh sorry skitter I missed your post somehow

[Irrelephant11]

I guess in my mind "lynchbait" means "scummy, but the way it's so easy to wagon them/the way others treat them makes me wonder if they're town despite the fact that they seem scummy"
So there's no contradiction in my head to say I find varsoon both scummy and lynchbaity and I've been confused why others think there is. I know that, in the end, he can't be both scum and lynchbait. But I can't tell which it is and part of my interest in flipping him would be to find out ("interest" in the literal "it would be interesting" sense)

Also you're getting caught up on word choice (this is a fun reversal of roles for us): I am simply asking Reck to 1) elaborate and 2) try to come to a firmer read. It will help me read him and it will help me read them, so it's certainly not just busywork.

[Irrelephant11]

ummm varsoon, porkens, reck, and your slot have had most of the attention in terms of votes

[Irrelephant11]

might have missed some other small wagons or misremembered but I've been a lil absent so maybe I'm the wrong person to answer

[Irrelephant11]

'm starting to become a little bit nervous that you might be trying to pocket shoshin

also while I appreciate what this says about my scumgame I think you know shoshin doesn't get pocketed this quickly or easily

[Irrelephant11]

I'm voting Gammagooey?
though I guess you could paranoia read me as lying about not seeing your post, finding a reason to switch wagons, and THEN responding to you?

lol

[Irrelephant11]

You want me to be more cautious of lynching varsoon
I'm not currently voting varsoon
How could I be more cautious

[Irrelephant11]

You want me to be more cautious of lynching varsoon
I'm not currently voting varsoon
How could I be more cautious

did your gamma vote have anything to do with varsoon?

I clearly feel Gamma is a better vote
I don't understand your objection to my play at this point
If you feel it's important please express it in a different way, I really can't wrap my head around how my not voting Varsoon is too un-cautious regarding his slot and that lack of caution somehow reveals a scum agenda

If you're wondering, I still haven't figured out if varsoon is scum or lynchbait, but the fact that multiple townreads are re-evaluating certainly makes me lean the latter enough to give him space

Hoping this is true. I am townreading creature

Seriously why are you so interested in my slot without interacting with me in any real way
@skitter, @shoshin, @sircakez, @anyone, are you noticing this? Is it just in my head? He keeps bringing me up without doing anything about me or my play
I'm townreading most everything else from him but this is weirding me out

ummm varsoon, porkens, reck, and your slot have had most of the attention in terms of votes

Gammagooey is up there too.

-snip-

826 reads quite fake. Like a big content dump to try to stave off the forming wagon.

- True
- I felt the same

Shoshin, I have yet to do this myself, but out of curiosity have you re-read all of your interactions with Varsoon? Just wondering if this is mostly misunderstanding. Like I don't townread Varsoon but I do also stand by my earlier guess that he might just be in the lynchbait spot. I'm townreading you lots so you're not the scum here but is it possible it's just playstyle differences?

Misunderstanding? No. Varsoon is scum who got caught early and now is trying to make up for it with lots of meanignless activity that hasn't actually got us any closer to finding scum and none of which actually contains anything towny. His ISO is empty of meaningful scumhunting.

Ok
I continue to feel overgamed and am having trouble remembering/understanding the case on varsoon. His frustration is seeming more genuine over time. I'll wait for your meta read on him before sheeping you again

Gammagooey's 826 is a terrible post and probably means he's partnered with Varsoon, as we suspected.

Irrel's subtle defense of Varsoon pings as well, so that's bad.

You can't have both of these... I moved from voting varsoon to voting gamma g. I'm feeling v good about gamma g flipping scum and not so good about varsoon doing the same. But yes, I see how they might be partners
Also, can you and @skitter just believe me that I'll spew town when it really matters, and not get distracted by distracted-me this game day? (and @creature and @varsoon I guess but I think they'll say "no" since they don't know me as well)

I'm actually getting really sick of you misrepresenting every single play I make. You're confbiased and nothing I ever do will be good enough, even if I single-handedly lynch the whole scum team and win this game for us.

Ehh this is ott
Like sure this is a mood
But if Shoshin's over-frustrating you, work on doing the "single-handedly lynching the whole scum team" rather than expressing your frustration over and over

If I lead a lynch on scum?
Oh, Varsoon must be bussing, he's obviously scum

No one has said this, no one has flipped. ??

Anyone ever see RC replace out of a game as scum? I'd be willing to bet it happens a lot more often as town than scum.

I think I have but like skitter can't be sure
I might check later

[Irrelephant11]

gamma g, 826 still has that like hollow feel to it.

i don't really understand why you're scumreading porkens; he had like one post that i scumread but the rest of it is kinda wtf-y but i see no scum agenda or motivation for it; like i'm not sure why being completely out of the game is more likely to come from scum than town. the i glanced at his iso in hte transformers game and he at least had some cursory scumreads and was following along (he was scum there)

also he was the biggest wagon with five votes a few hundred posts back so i'm not sure where you're getting the 'people are fine calling him scum but not voting him' bit from; he really feels like lynchbait to me tbh

-snip-

==

varsoon, this might be a weird question, but how well do you remember games you played six months ago? like are you the sort of player who remembers details of things they pushed in games gone by?

still think varsoon is town tbh

-snip-

- Agreed that Porkens feels like the definition of lynchbait here, but I am curious if that's something he's ever done on purpose
- I didn't realize you were townreading Varsoon with any real certainty... I'll just look through your ISO because you've probably already explained why

Replacing out and being forced to replace out should both be read entirely as NAI regardless of player--to do anything else compromises the integrity of the game more than a replace-out does.
RC's slot should be read with RC's content considered. A replace-out should not buy a slot a free ticket to ride. The alignment of the slot did not change with the replacement.

Agreed that replace outs (especially force replace outs ) shouldn't, in an ideal world, spew alignment. But if it does indeed say something about alignment, why would it bother you to figure that out?

To read over everything
They say that time's supposed to inspirate ya, but I ain't done much lately

You'll probably scumread me for this but I just really want to express how much I enjoy your posting on the whole

[Irrelephant11]

I think that is indeed your answer
I'm clearly not the only one with low activity (at least I thought) so idk why he feels the need to say "what's the elephant doing", especially on occasions where he himself is doing very little
I'm townreading him because of a carefree tone, mostly, like the way he lampshades his own disinterest in playing hard. plus a little sheeping shoshin about his early play being towny

[Irrelephant11]

I think that's an unfair representation
Name three players I am sheeping Shoshin on

[Irrelephant11]

Okay, so RC (who is gone, and I guess I'm sorry I didn't say that I will also be starting my read over on the slot, same as you)
Varsoon (who I am currently *not* sheeping shoshin on)
and Creature (who I agree shoshin had a couple good points on that affect my read)

The "parrot of Shoshin" was me accusing RC of parroting Shoshin about you, not me saying that I am parroting her about you.

I think you're overfocused on me right now. If I were more paranoid I would accuse you of intentionally going out of your way to find reasons to drop your townread of me

[Irrelephant11]

Let's flip Gammagoo

[Irrelephant11]

Would flip Varsoon as info lynch at this point too

[Irrelephant11]

hi sorry been kind of busy

from what little i've seen of the votecount i'm not sure why the irrel wagon died / is only me

lol it was never a wagon btw
@Reck do you still want RC/GE slot lynch today? Or is there anyone else you're interested in voting?

[Irrelephant11]

Would flip Varsoon as info lynch at this point too

Wtf No, never do an info lynch, this is terrible. Man, Irrel, you're making me doubt you're town, ugh.

Sorry? multiple people are scumreading me for what I'd guess is just a game theory thing? I've recently seen info lynches promoted elsewhere on site, but I guess it's not a part of site meta overall.

huh gamma emerald is actually being scummier than i thought rc was

What about GE is scummy? I was lightly townreading his play

Gamma Emerald is solidifying my town read on the slot.

Yeah agree (though I was more null on RC, I did also think RC's reads made sense)

@skitter I do sheep shoshin a lot D1. I've never correctly identified & pushed scum on my own D1 (unlike shoshin), and have only hit scum by sheeping town who's better than me at playing this phase. I'm trying to learn the weak points in my play, and that's one. Imo sheeping is pro-town if you can find a towny slot, and if you're also hard townreading shoshin I don't know what you're concerned about... Like town!Shoshin will figure me out regardless of my alignment and if I'm scum will get me lynched, and I won't be able to do anything about it because I've said she's obvtown. I don't think I could pocket Shoshin, honestly. I'm townreading you a fair amount, but re:paranoia I was mostly saying that I'm just not feeling paranoid yet this game, not that you've moved up in my reads.
I would love to see anyone voting me make a case, because if you're sheeping RC's case, it basically wasn't one. This is the one thing that makes it so hard for me to townread RC's slot with any certainty - I can now talk about the fact that I just lost to RC in Friemds mafia - I was town PR, he was scum. I feel like I'm playing town similarly to how I was there, and think he should know that I have somewhat weak play as town, and feel he would only think to push me here as scum. But that's also too personal probably, and I am townreading GE, and part of what I've learned from last game is I can't read RC, so idk.
Also Shoshin knows me better as a player than most players on this site with the possible exception of Nauci, and I encourage y'all to sheep her on me.
All of that said, @creature why do you townread me? That doesn't seem to match your play regarding me so far

[Irrelephant11]

not sure why this lynch is happening specifically

You should look into that

Gamma Emerald is solidifying my town read on the slot.

for future reference since it looks like I might be dying today Gemerald's done basically nothing except state a town read Cakez and make two tiny comments on earlygame posts

there's nothing there to reasonably townread

VOTE: SirCakez

If there is nothing to reasonably townread on the RC/GE slot, why is your vote on SirCakez?

[Irrelephant11]

do you think it's because gammag is scum or town

[Irrelephant11]

Start a wagon
Or case me

[Irrelephant11]

I think you're town, nsg, but I don't get why you're townreading gamma g, if you are

[Irrelephant11]

hey Porkens is playing!
I don't have a scum case I would call "strong" on any player this day phase
I am not sheeping RC, if that is your implication

[Irrelephant11]

can you do a quick case?
I'm usually v/la on Saturday/Sunday and I want some idea of what I'm sheeping before I sheep

[Irrelephant11]

Reading his ISO...

VOTE: Reckoner

The more I play forum mafia the more I enjoy last minute wagons

[Irrelephant11]

what about what you quotes is pinging you?
I don't see any reason to assume Kokichi didn't know how many votes it took to hammer - I think he just failed to mention L-1

[Irrelephant11]

*quoted

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Gammagooey

[Irrelephant11]

Wtf

Hardclaim mason

Is there a point in keeping my fellow mason hidden or do I go ahead and reveal the crumbs

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Reck

[Irrelephant11]

I was supposed to claim right?
Yeah my role was gonna flip either way
If I'm the lynch regardless of claim, Shoshin is 98% sure town
Watch skitter, but if she's consistently pro-town don't be paranoid about her
nsg is probably town based on how much she's playing but wow the fact that she made my wagon a thing when it otherwise wouldn't have been looks bad fmpov

[Irrelephant11]

I'm giving my mason my crumbs so they can claim later
Believe them pls

If anyone is around please swing this onto Reck, Varsoon, or Porkens

[Irrelephant11]

honestly this is probably my least fav game I've ever played in (in terms of result; setup and flavor were pretty fun)
everyone who could have solved this just... didn't
nsg should not have survived mylo after skitter found varsoon's crumb (not to mention how dumb it was she survived any day phase after leading my lynch)
porkens should never have been townread by anyone ever
town game threw repeatedly

Sad that I have to include this in my wiki, tbh

@scum do any of you want that free comic book? If not there are some of us early town deaths who do

[Irrelephant11]

Also RC has lost 100% of his nsg-reading authority fmpov

[Irrelephant11]

shout out to all the Tom Bodetts!

[Irrelephant11]

Oh I definitely don't think you're the reason town lost, not even close. Read the dead thread for how annoyed I got at like *every other townie*
But you're *a* reason

1) Irrelephant is well aware that I'm like absolutely fucking god tier at reading NSG. Insta gamesolve level. Yet the best he's willing to do is sheep my scumlean for now?

"explain NSG"

you know full well that your choices are to call me scum or accept NSG as town.

So yes, you contributed to town loss, including my mislynch
Get annoyed with nsg for using your misread to win as scum and destroying your "I can read nsg" streetcred, not at me for acknowledging it happened

[Irrelephant11]

You were the reason I was on the table D1, no one else made anything resembling a real case
But yes, I concede you came around on me before repping out, thanks to shoshin
Yes, Varsoon and Reckoner's personal beefs with you are on me, sorry about that (???)

I think you're fantastic at reads in general
I'm not gonna sheep you on nsg when my gut has a different answer in the future
That's all I was saying, so maybe take it less personally

[Irrelephant11]

haha i mean do we deserve to win probably not

but does town deserve to win?

probably not either.

this made me lol

[Irrelephant11]

Only I get criticized in the postgame and dead thread (lol gammagooey) of a game where 2/3 of my scumreads were scum

Upon further reflection, you're mostly right about this. I get why that would get under your skin - sorry, sincerely.

[Irrelephant11]

shoshin what happened this game

[Irrelephant11]

Oh yeah, I stopped caring about this game after RC and Irrelephant were gone... so there's that too...

yeah ok, I thought this was maybe part of it

welp

gg scum, you outplayed town, for sure. Can't win them all, thanks for some D1 fun, everyone
I <3 you all more than my complaining might make you think (what else is there to do as the D1 mislynch but complain u kno)
See you all in

Petals to the Metal

!

[Irrelephant11]

I did! Congrats!

[Irrelephant11]

Varsoon, skitter and nos aren't just the left and right hands of shoshin. Both of them had the opportunity to vote scum and didn't take it. Shoshin's loss of interest and incorrect read on skitter made it hard for skitter and shoshin to get on the same page, but that doesn't mean skitter and nos's play are shoshin's fault.

tbf I think nsg upped the quality of her play jsut enough when she needed to the most, and though no one played *impressively* this game I do want to shout out nsg for that moment in mylo that may have been game-winning in retrospect