Witches' Halloween Ball [Game Over]

[Brian Skies]

This game would have been more fun to spectate, to be honest.

I'll be back later when I care more about analyzing than laughing at some of the things that's been said so far.

[Brian Skies]

by definition it'll create some TvT pairings but I think more importantly, it allows for us to put high trust targets with low trust targets. I also considered doing like 3 bad with bads for them to agree to die, but basically we need to have pairings where we can read them while also relying that there is a solid town person able to leave the dance if necessary.

Is it too early to volunteer as tribute?

[Brian Skies]

That discredit!

To be fair, I'm just jealous because I was hoping to use that against Mala later.

[Brian Skies]

Implicit in your argument is presumption that your reads will be wrong and that a player that you consider strongly town will be scum, and thus you should play to that expectation. To that I would say that I don't think it makes sense to begin from the idea that your reads are wrong - it makes more sense to begin with lynching your scumreads. Should that fail, then there may be cause for concern and at that point it would be time to begin looking in the pairs previously more townread.

Beginning with trying to lynch both the "scummy scum" and the "towny scum" by pairing them together seems destined to simply sacrifice a townier player for every scummier player we lynch.

Of course, this is quite abstract and a level removed from the actual people pairing together and playing the game, but on a theory level I don't think it's correct.

The only thing I agree with you on is the bolded part.

I also feel like you're nitpicking on one questionable aspect because you're missing the greater context of what she's proposing.

[Brian Skies]

Ok, first off my dude?

Dude joined the site like 2 weeks ago and I don't know his experience level but "I think your thoughts of how scum play are far too grand" is like, not helpful.

Second off, he's right and you're wrong. Scum plan, scum plot, scum have intentions and attack vectors.

Intentionality and motivation are a huge part of finding scum and rooting them out and the fact that you think that scum creating apathy isn't a weapon in their arsenal, let alone one of their best ones in a game mode like this, then boy have I got a bridge in brooklyn I'd love to sell you.

Moment's actually almost dead-on with his analysis of my post there, although I don't really want to admit it.

Also not sure what about that post was 'apathy-inducing.' I very clearly said I was going to come back and contribute, lol.

Even then, I think in a vacuum, it could have been interpreted in a much more jovial manner (and possibly other ways), but it seems clear that most people in this game know me too well to think that was the case (or maybe they did, I haven't completely caught up yet).

[Brian Skies]

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

Weird.

I originally interpreted that as her thinking you were expendable.

[Brian Skies]

Scum would obv know they have 2 other partners ie 3 scum. So I believe fire when he says he forgot how many scum were in this game. So no I wasn't joking

Poor fire.

Maria doesn't think scum-him could possibly fake such an easy post to make.

[Brian Skies]

How? If shes scum she doesnt want to be stuck without someone. I'm likely to accept her since we play a lot together.

Her explanation for proposing to you was that she doesn't think she'd be one of the players to fall into one of the T-T dance pairs.

Regardless of her alignment, Sakura's partner selection doesn't seem predicated on the idea that she's going to endgame with you.

[Brian Skies]

RC if you don’t pair with me I am not pairing with anyone else, just so that’s on the record.

I think the only 2 people I can ask to dance are Bri/Sir cake sadly

Get ur hands of them.
They are my reserve dances

Rc x Fb for life

I can see through you firepup.

[Brian Skies]

I mean you and cakez are the only ones besides RC I would want to share a PT with and actually post in lol

It'd probably just get relegated to Hangman or something.

[Brian Skies]

Yes, I'm sure we would come up with the best categories.

[Brian Skies]

I was under the impression that this game is town-sided considering vi haven't seen a scum win yet.

Last time i played this game scum won coz i suicided out of paranoia

and screwed a town auto win.

I wouldn't say I screwed the town out of an auto win, but I've definitely done the bolded.

Or I'm pretty sure I did.

[Brian Skies]

Shortaru, what experience do you have playing Mafia?

[Brian Skies]

2) I disagree with it

What about it do you disagree with?

[Brian Skies]

Because what happens when you pair a bunch of low fruit with other low fruit is that people get it in their head that you're wrong about those low fruit, the low fruit won't agree to pair and what ends up happening is they take down a bunch of non-low fruit with them.

It's better to high low pair because the odds that all the low hanging fruit are scum is low.

Don't both of these essentially end up with the same result?

[Brian Skies]

Perhaps "sabotage" was a bit dramatic a term, but I just mean taking actions that don't seem very well thought out. Asking someone to dance just because "why not?" is just like voting someone to lynch just because "why not?".

Why is it scummy though?

[Brian Skies]

So I asked if he was a hydra or alt, to determine whether he was new or experienced.

His line here suggests I am asking it based on some kind of inane reason that isn't relevant, so it's dodging the actual accusation, clearly that I was aiming for his experience level, in favour of trying to subvert the issue.

Firebringer already told you he was an alt before he made that post though.

On its own, no one post is scum, but the reaction+tone+further posting once I began to lock him as scum in my mind has continued to line up.

Can you elaborate on this? Not saying you're wrong, I'm just not seeing it outside of what you said about 91.

[Brian Skies]

Well that seems like the basics but sometimes pairs are more better thought out by the group. Town doesn't normally like to do that though because 'teamwork'

This is probably not that important, but I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.

[Brian Skies]

I'm liking Karmeleon a bit better for town now.

?

I literally couldn't tell that you were reading him otherwise.

[Brian Skies]

Karmeleon said some things that other people started talking about

, I think the way he reacted to that felt genuine in a way where it was coming from town, just a little awkward

?

[Brian Skies]

Was a little concerned with Maria feeling like her sorting wasn’t as good as I’d expect

Why?

[Brian Skies]

What's confusing you Brian Skies?

What are you specifically referring to?

[Brian Skies]

IRL & app

I'm guessing app means application? What applications?

[Brian Skies]

IRL & app

I'm guessing app means application? What applications?

Nevermind. I found what I was looking for.

[Brian Skies]

You question marking something I said

Okay, but what were you specifically referring to regarding Karmeleon?

[Brian Skies]

Also btw fun fact I'm already deathly paranoid RC is scumreading me ,due to the post where he alluded to a townread player being a scumread, and gonna deathtunnel me.

Why do you think it's you?

[Brian Skies]

At the end of the pre-dance, any player who doesn't have a dance partner will be asked to leave the dance. (death)

Look

It's not just one player.

Was this supposed to be a response to something?

[Brian Skies]

What's your first language?

[Brian Skies]

Regardless of whether I agree with 585, sometimes it's more interesting and illuminating to hear a fresh perspective on someone's alignment.

[Brian Skies]

Regardless of whether I agree with 585, sometimes it's more interesting and illuminating to hear a fresh perspective on someone's alignment.

I'm not saying don't give your impression of a player for whatever reason, but if that reason is meta, unless it is backed up by evidence it is only marginally useful. Saying "other people say this person does this as town so I'll accept they do it as town" is a very good way to have an incorrect read

Sure.

I was just giving my own opinion without regard to what you said.

[Brian Skies]

Why is the IC going with obv town when they should pick the most scummy female wtf

?

[Brian Skies]

Oh, I don't care about that part.

I was just curious about the 'most scummy female'.

[Brian Skies]

Did Dunn get dumped?

[Brian Skies]

Town loses.

[Brian Skies]

It was actually directed toward RC since he was 'micromanaging Dunn's pairing because obvtown yada yada'.

[Brian Skies]

What's everyones Short reads?

I think he's town, but not because of his first post.

[Brian Skies]

I find it interesting that you and LLD suggested 3 town pairings earlier and now you're going with 4, mostly because 4 is the number I would have gone with if I were in your position.

[Brian Skies]

Sure, wasn't disagreeing with you.

[Brian Skies]

Wow, I'm actually a lot higher than I thought I'd be.

[Brian Skies]

notably i do think maria is town but i think it will be impossible to convince town to put her in a top 4 pairing

It's actually not that hard. You just need to stop calling her objectively scummy.

[Brian Skies]

Brian/Celestia

Lol.

[Brian Skies]

You don't think kokichi's town?

[Brian Skies]

Actually, my reason for thinking Kokichi was town isn't as good as I thought it was. But I'm gonna go with it anyway.

[Brian Skies]

I feel like newscum reads the wiki more than newgreen

I disagree but it's not like this is his first game anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Mmmm tasty shade

Zero shade.

[Brian Skies]

What really bothers me is the fact my name has been tossed a bunch with me being thrown in as being scummy with half the players not giving a reason, nor has anyone really tired to include or engage me which really pisses me off.

Gentleman are the scarce resource, which means you naturally have more competition to get into the dance.

This is probably why the ladies seem so thirsty af this game.

Generally speaking, players that expect to be engaged don't get engaged anyway. And in this game, you're probably just going to get ignored and excluded if you don't contribute.

[Brian Skies]

DVA is looking for long term companionship here people

Put your best foot forward!

I'm not into Overwatch.

[Brian Skies]

quit work

Solid advice.

[Brian Skies]

Brian you wanna play my game and nail down your top female scumread with a hurt tag?

No.

[Brian Skies]

Gentlemen
Town
shortaru
Dunn
-----------
Kokichi Oma
Gamma Emerald
-----------
Karmeleon
SirCakez
Scum


Ladies
High Confidence Town
Moment
DVa
Firebringer
ChibiBear
MariaR
Lady Lambdadelta
Low Confidence Town
---------------------
Mala
Princess
Eviscerate

[Brian Skies]

Cool ty

Not to put words in your mouth but if I get the implication of your list--you don't want to hurt a lady because you want more content from princess first or something?


can you expand on Cakez SR?

Yes, I find the Lady list fairly muddled and it's easier to start with townreads there.

Tinfoil theory.

[Brian Skies]

I don't think scum Sakura opens the game saying she doesn't expect to be in a T-T pair and then picks Kokichi to the dance (and Kokichi getting stood up in a previous dance, or claiming to, does play a factor into my read here). I think Sakura mostly didn't want to get left out, and her outburst yelling at Kokichi not to accept her invitation so she can die without even trying for a different dance partner further makes me think this. I haven't really thought much deeper than this other than just not seeing scum motivation in her actions thus far (and I've indicated this on at least one occasion this game).

661 is my direct response to the question Sakura posed in 660, to which RC actually explained in 662.

I didn't include Sakura in my readslist beacuse I don't think she's scum and even if she is, I consider it RC's problem now. Like, her goal this game has been what, to not get excluded and not even try for an endgame pairing? Why would I think this is scum?

Right now, the goal should be making other T-T pairs. I've been withholding a lot of my thoughts because I have no intention of even accepting a dance partner (unless RC just really really wants a specific flip to comment on before scum potentially nightkill him). Also, in my opinion, RC should figure out what his most towniest second T-T pairing is (which is the one he's working on right now) and then work with said pair to set the game up in a way that best suits whichever of the two pairs doesn't get nightkilled.

Regarding Kokichi, the reason I don't think he's scum is that I felt he was a little enthused to see Sakura ask him to the dance, and I feel like my explanation to him regarding her proposal may have taken some of the wind out of his sails. Of course, I have since realized that it's possible he's scum here who wanted to shoot down the Sakura invitation so he could get a better endgame pairing, but I just don't really think that's the case.

[Brian Skies]

I have no intention of even accepting a dance partner

y tho? I don't think you're at the bottom of hardly anyone's lists?

Effort value required.

[Brian Skies]

If I wanted the absolute Max winrate here we'd only have four pairings made to prevent scum from trying to derail the plan later

Yes, but that is anti-fun, so I didn't bother bringing it up.

I also didn't really have a huge issue with LLD's initial proposal since filling up all the pairs eliminates the scum autowin issue. And so long as the initial 3 pairs have at most one scum (which is an acceptable expectation considering scum sometimes weasel into townblocks), it doesn't really matter how the other pairs are made so long as everyone outside the townblock (assuming it's a well-made townblock) dies.

[Brian Skies]

Thought the lan was to pair towny people with less towny people outside of the townblock

Yes, that was indeed the plan.

For me, the idea was to speed up the lynch process by enticing town players to ditch their scummy partners. It was mostly a slot-flipping express lane for me rather than anything that was entirely necessary. As long as the initial townblock was well made, it wasn't terribly important to me how the other pairings were done (mostly because I didn't plan on being the one to clean up the mess ).

[Brian Skies]

I would dance with Princess.

[Brian Skies]

i'm having second thoughts about dva and its making me sad

doesn't feel like nayone's contesting the game from scum side

If you're so confident that Shortaru has to be town, then why do you think DVa-scum decides to be so hesitant of accepting him as a partner?

[Brian Skies]

Like

chibibear is ultrahardtown for me as well

I kind of want to put chibibear as #2 girl and DVa as #3

Okay.

[Brian Skies]

Who wants to join my club

Does it come with a treehouse?

[Brian Skies]

And a handshake too?

[Brian Skies]

You sir may have just found your first member.

[Brian Skies]

We should put up a sign that says 'No Water Pokemon Allowed.'

[Brian Skies]

LLD always has the option of pairing with Cakez.

[Brian Skies]

It might have to do something with trust DVa. You've only had eyes for Karmy this game.

[Brian Skies]

Well you saying you wanted to suicide has thrown me off since you were my next pairing

I think this is fair.

I personally don't mind the Karmy/DVa pairing.

[Brian Skies]

I would be fine with Dunn-Moment.

[Brian Skies]

Then don't put her as a tier 1 townread.

[Brian Skies]

Well, I did say I would pair up if RC wanted a specific flip to be able to comment on before the intermission.

[Brian Skies]

I would be okay with dancing with Princess.

I thought you wanted to dance with Karmy anyway.

[Brian Skies]

I didn't bother finishing the last x amount of pages.

I will pair with whomever RC tells me to pair with.

[Brian Skies]

Will you not be suiciding?

That depends on whatever purpose RC designs for my pairing.

[Brian Skies]

I promise I will not interfere with RC.

[Brian Skies]

Nevada

Hello there!

I live in Nevada!

[Brian Skies]

Nevada

Hello there!

I live in Nevada!

Hey neighbor! North or South? I'm in the Vegas area.

Western Vegas.

[Brian Skies]

Western

Not near "Western" by the way. I meant the west side.

[Brian Skies]

i also think that his 'oh just pair me off' is very similar to him in uhh the dinobots game where he was talking on d1 about dueling someone to get himself killed asap

To be fair, I genuinely thought Gooey was scum that game because I really thought Porkens was. I wasn't doing it to be selfish, I was just wrong and ended up dueling the DayVig (which may or may not have worked out for Gooey rolewise?).

[Brian Skies]

∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ Dear Mr Brian Skies, Will you do me the honor of attending the dance with me? Yours sincerely, ChibiBear ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾

I accept.

[Brian Skies]

Listen to some ASMR.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: SirCakez+Malakittens

[Brian Skies]

Which head are you scumreading, Brian?

To be honest, both. Although I really just want to lynch Cakez.

I think there's a decent chance of there being another scum in LLD's two endgame pairings. I also didn't really like how they both tried to shutdown Short as a potential partner for DVA when you were trying to float that as an endgame pairing.

I should probably flesh this out a little more (75+ pages T_T), but this was part of the tinfoil theory I had when I was scumreading Cakez before and why I had most players where they were in my earlier readslist.

Mala I just don't have any reason to think is town and would not be surprised if LLD was trying to sacrifice her.

[Brian Skies]

btw are u going back to the gym?
I really need to start working out again. i am so out of shape.

I started working out again. I'm actually surprised how much I like that sore feeling you get after working out (wasn't a huge fan of it when I was in high school). Now I just gotta figure out what I'm doing in the gym instead of just doing whatever pops into my head.

What do you think of the Cakez/Mala pair?

[Brian Skies]

I would like to lynch Cakez/Mala.

[Brian Skies]

This is a post.

[Brian Skies]

I would like to lynch Cakez/Mala.

[Brian Skies]

The mala wagon is a good development.

[Brian Skies]

I bless this wagon.

[Brian Skies]

I also think the argument of 'wake was pulling the newbie card to mask his scumplay' to be pretty weak since he was clearly trying to evade his ban.

[Brian Skies]

They came from the same site. So close enough I guess.

[Brian Skies]

I would follow up on my previous question to you, but you're now voting them, so...lol.

[Brian Skies]

brian have i told u i really loved ur cloud avi, but this avi of urs has really grown on me.
looks good on u. feels very fitting.

This was my original avatar when I joined. Muffin persuaded me to change back to this one by offering an in thread hydra to me.

[Brian Skies]

Mala is devoid of literally anything resembling content. Aside from the copious amounts of AtE, why do people think that is town?

[Brian Skies]

As far as Cakes is concerned, his first mention of Shortaru doesn't come until after RC floats Shortaru as a potential endgame partner for DVa and he's been sharing that slot ever since.

[Brian Skies]

Shading*

[Brian Skies]

I think LLD would know better than to want to pair with town and be at threat of being walked out on so I think dunnstral is scum

The problem I have with this is that LLD was also trying to set up enough scummy+towny pairings that town-Dunn would actually be disincentivized (is this even the correct word?) from walking out on her.

[Brian Skies]

Also, Mala' s play was so lackluster in the predance that I still would not be surprised if she was being sacrificed for towncred.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Cakez+Mala

[Brian Skies]

Wow.

You deleted my vote.

I don't even...

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Cakez+Mala

[Brian Skies]

If any of Fire, Gamma, DVa, or Nancy decide to become suicidal or throw a tantrum and leave the dance, I'm walking out at final 6.

I didn't sign up to watch you all ignore me and gamethrow. I'm mostly here as a victim of RC's sadistic gameplan.

[Brian Skies]

i came out and said why I'm voting dunn/maria it's fundamentally based onn associative

you are in some sense correct that my push on you has been intellectually dishonest but my pushes are always intellectually dishonest because the real reasons I push people aren't sexy and enticing and it does NOT mean that my play is incorrect. this is something that you should be used to and using it as an attack on me is ??? given that I claimed Ventriloquist was scum because they posted 3 times consecutively even though notepad obviously exists. sometimes the real reasons people are scum aren't enticing to people and it's easier to just lie and not have to explain why something that to the untrained eye is NAI is super telling. the fact that LLD was super set on those Dunn/LLD and Cakez/Maria pairings is super telling, and to me it was super obvious that 1 of the 3 was the case. I do not believe her just randomly setting up TvT pairings makes much sense because if everyone is town, dunn/maria softconfirming each other helps LLD stay alive but Cakez/Maria reaches endgame first and LLD hasn't set a paper trail for defending her buddies, so the Maria/cakez pairing is far more likely to reach endgame because Maria at the end could easily convince Dunn to leave and LLD would know that.

So, in terms of scum pairings either

1) LLD wanted Maria paired with Cakez to keep scum him alive and wanted Dunn with him so maria/dunn could each get pocketed by one scum and townbin each other and they'd win together

least likely

or 1/2 of

1) LLD wanted to be paired with scum!Dunn and was worried that Maria would suss something was up potentially and really pushed for that pairing and also set someone up for Maria to make her happy
2) LLD wanted to keep Scum!Maria and Town!Dunn apart so she hard tried to steal Dunn as a partner so that she could prevent a Maria/Dunn pairing that scum evidently felt would end up backfiring on Maria.

That's why I think you need to die as a pairing, you cover 2/3 of the explanations for why LLD was obsessed with dunnstral and why her pairings were what they were.

Ignore everything in this post about Dunn and Maria since we already know they were town. And then vote Cakez and Mala.

[Brian Skies]

If this doesn't yield at least 1 scum, then we can have a discussion as to whether we want to continue with RC's game plan. However, these have been my scumread since predance and I won't feel particularly motivated to reassess until I see their flips.

[Brian Skies]

I wasn't even gone that long and got four flips, lmao.

Fire scumflip slightly surprising, tbh.

[Brian Skies]

Brian, vote and test Chibi?

I don't understand how this is supposed to work.

[Brian Skies]

Oh, you mean vote Nancy?

[Brian Skies]

Let me double-iso Shortaru+Chibi first.

[Brian Skies]

This is a post.

[Brian Skies]

Slightly tempted to just hammer though.

[Brian Skies]

Okay, you can unvote now.

[Brian Skies]

Lmao. I was given a timer.

[Brian Skies]

My only regret this game is not taking up DVa on that pairing offer.

[Brian Skies]

To be honest, I like that from Chibi more than Shortaru fencesitting on Fire for most of what I've read through in his iso so far.

[Brian Skies]

Funny enough, I'm not even considering DVa scum since I still believe scum-DVa could've just taken RC's offer for free win with Shortaru pairing.

Idk if that's a wise decision, but yeah...

[Brian Skies]

I'm just going to trust in RC.

VOTE: DVA+Nancy

[Brian Skies]

GG!

Although I honestly believe DVa would have probably won us this game regardless of what I did there. :3

[Brian Skies]

Thank you Chibi for being a fantastic partner. Sorry for never posting in our PT.

[Brian Skies]

Also good job RC for setting game-winning lynch order.

[Brian Skies]

Oof!

Both my Vegas comrades were scum without me.

[Brian Skies]

I don't gamble.

But I wouldn't mind meeting up for a drink. ^_^