Mini Normal 2041 [Game Over]

[Gamma Emerald]

Id

[Gamma Emerald]

There are three players from survivormeet II in this game and gamma is the sneakiest of the three so VOTE: gamma

I’m not Gammagooey

[Gamma Emerald]

Can everyone give me what alignment do they prefer and describe their scumgame with few sentences?

I prefer town unless my Scumteam is fun to work with
As for my scum playstyle I try to go towards the goal, I’ll try to get Town lynched, but bussing is an option. I don’t like bussing too much however, it’s actually a pet peeve of mine.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: sephora

That’s a make-up brand. Lmao

[Gamma Emerald]

what's that list above, Oka?

Doesn't really matter, why do you ask?

It kinda does, because it makes no sense unless you explain it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Mostly because I want to know if my idea is right
But if you say you’ll explain when it’s relevant, I’ll lay off you for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Negan = Radja btw

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't have friends and family, I do have local singles in my area though.

Boy that means you be trolling for strange on the internet

[Gamma Emerald]

Radja’s questions feel loaded

[Gamma Emerald]

Radja’s questions feel loaded

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Why didn't you vote him after this question when you weren't voting anyone over him?

Didnt think it was scum loaded questioning at that point

Radja’s questions feel loaded

Loaded how?

You seem to have an answer already in mind

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay if you’re going to make 3 different lists I’m going to need context

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay
Idk if scum is able to fake this level of sorting

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh that feels like tiring the cryptography line, if it were used for something more impactful than reads it might be a problem

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it’s kinda hard for Oka to generate such complex figures as scum
When I’m scum making a read list, I have to force myself to pick up on things sometimes.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was gonna say that’s not a reason for Kokichi to be liability
But it kinda is

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

May I get an explanation? Feeling town on the vote rn, shows honest follow-up to earlier thinking

[Gamma Emerald]

Radja’s questions feel loaded

Loaded how?

You seem to have an answer already in mind

Let's say I did have an answer in mind. Why are you voting me for that?
What's wrong with that method of questioning?

Im not voting you for it lol
But to answer the second question, I realize while thinking about it’s not as shoddy of a thing as I thought, I was thinking your questions would not return very effective results if you expected a certain answer to them and you got it, but I realized that’s not really a thing. I basically went after something mundane thinking it esoteric.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve played with you before and still have no idea how to read you

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

May I get an explanation? Feeling town on the vote rn, shows honest follow-up to earlier thinking

I really dislike your post about the liability thing, especially since the whole post is an echo chamber and shading gerry for something i disagree on. Also, you arent voting coherently when you basically agree that hes a liability and i dont remember you being shy of voting people early game.

@chicken : no what, be clearer if you want to be understood (general tip)

KOKICHI ISNT GERRY...LMAOOOOO
Although if he is multiple that lmao by 10

[Gamma Emerald]

Kokichi is almost certainly not an alt
But if he is I had the sense Kokichi seemed like Gerryoat since I first encountered Kokichi

[Gamma Emerald]

Kokichi is almost certainly not an alt
But if he is I had the sense Kokichi seemed like Gerryoat since I first encountered Kokichi

Hm...
I need to check something. If I get what I think I will Kokichi’s alt equity will rise a fair amount

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol okay still don’t think Kokichi is an alt

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk, and even if I did I sincerely doubt my read accuracy on him

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t see the point in it if you’re going to state it’s a reaction test from the beginning?

[Gamma Emerald]

That is really weird and beetlejuicy

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t see the point in it if you’re going to state it’s a reaction test from the beginning?

I was gonna post this but oh well.

Coolio. Have a semi-townread.

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you still trying to change your approach to day 1, Tchill?

At this point I'm just gonna continue to try things until I find something I like. There's a very, very particular way I like to play. I just don't know what to do to fill in the gaps if that makes sense. I'd like to find a healthier way to play due to the ability to abuse the way players work here I've gotten used to just not playing correctly early. So I guess we will see.

This made no sense to me

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t see it but w/e

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway gamma, you gonna vote me or not? AND gimme like 3 SRs.

Nah
And I think my TR game is where it is at this time
Oka, Joey, and Nako are what I’ve got so far

[Gamma Emerald]

I think A50 could actually be scum. My gut is out of control.

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t blame ya Joey, I thought the same thing in the past tonewise as I said

@Teech: I’m on the fence for A50 currently, him targeting me in his first post is something I kinda like tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

Long time no, see kokichi hope you've been well btw.

When have you two played together?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m trying to think if I like this wagon
On one hand DDL went after one of my townreads so that’s not a good thing
But I don’t really see why he’s being wagoned

[Gamma Emerald]

Doesn’t seem too bad an idea
VOTE: DrDoolittle

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm here.

Town pile: { Tchill, Radja, Kokichi, Joey }

Null Pile: { BEF, PP, A50, nako }

Scummy Pile: { okapoka, drdoolittle, dva }

No reason to put the -1 on unless Drdoolittle doesnt post tonight as promised so VOTE: okapoka[/b] instead.

You missed me

[Gamma Emerald]

Self vote is meh
Self hammer is shit

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma where are you on PenguinGifs, Sephora, and BearAvatar?

PenguinGifs would like to see more of, for some reason want to say Town
Sephora Idk
BearAvatar I don’t find anything particularly town indicative from them and I feel like that’s a bit scum!odd, though that’s based on meta that could be wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

They wanted a writing sample cause it's a job that includes lots of writing.

Huh?

[Gamma Emerald]

here's 2 of me doing nothing all game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=77301
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=77250

Don’t think those games count, they’re too abridged to be reliable meta

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma's not reading tonight and its a cause for concern

Not reading what

[Gamma Emerald]

First: that was completely off topic so it was odd?
Second: I read the thread linearly most of the time. As such I didn’t see it was a joke when I posted that. And I took the time to click the links, so your shade is undermined.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma has made 41 posts and none of them seem to be of substantial value or content. He's engaging in a lot of pointless conversation that don't lead anywhere, but he's obviously reading the thread as he is responding to questions directed at him. His lack of actually doing something of importance makes me think active lurking? What's your gameplan gamma.

I am trying to poke around and make reads, and actually do have reads on some slots. Why do you seem to have missed that?

[Gamma Emerald]

fun fact: if i townread everyone, most of the time ill be correct, so yeah. there is that.

@everyone who has played with kokichi and has a fair grasp on his meta, is joey right that kokichi becomes obv town as town? im not an expert on his meta so

Not obv as town, but they eventually gives enough content to be read correctly by most. I, personally can read him quite correctly and I don't recall ever being wrong on him for all our games together (at least 4-5 games). So if you think im town, give me to chance to read him correctly and step back

Teach me sensei

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma has made 41 posts and none of them seem to be of substantial value or content. He's engaging in a lot of pointless conversation that don't lead anywhere, but he's obviously reading the thread as he is responding to questions directed at him. His lack of actually doing something of importance makes me think active lurking? What's your gameplan gamma.

I am trying to poke around and make reads, and actually do have reads on some slots. Why do you seem to have missed that?

I don't think I did? I acknowledge that you have made reads, but they aren't really valuable because you aren't really following up on them or pushing hard. Just being lazy.

where's double day unlimited gamma where you called me out?

DDU I repped into a scumread slot and had to try and get someone else lynched. As such I had to be high effort. Here I’m going at my own pace. I have played at a slower rate as town recently and can link the game where it happened.

[Gamma Emerald]

@A50 you search the POSTS? You mean threads don’t you? O_o

[Gamma Emerald]

Neegan = Radja
Neegan is the character in Radja’s avatar

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s kinda clunky, I guess as someone who doesn’t disappear from the site much it’s fine but what about someone you haven’t played with who has like, 10000 posts?

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I check and I’m 9th on site for most mafia related posts

[Gamma Emerald]

where's the leaderboard?

Click/tap members on top right of the page
Sort by posts (hit it twice for descending)

@A50 cool, but that means you’re sifting through a lot of data points, whereas going through threads gives less data points to sift through (and still shows you if it’s a mafia game or not)

[Gamma Emerald]

That's assuming I do not unsubscribe from finished games though.

The thread search is the same as the egosearch function: it shows all threads you’ve posted in

[Gamma Emerald]

Almost50, what do you think about BEF at the moment?

Would like to chime in that I find the attacks against A50 rather unsettling and maybe telling of who might be on the scumteam

[Gamma Emerald]

@Almost50 who here have you played with?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Almost50 who here have you played with?

All but Nako and Dolittle.

Hem. Who has seen you as town and in what games?

[Gamma Emerald]

meh. spoilered posts don't really sell me on town!gamma over scum!gamma.

Well the onus is on you to provide reasoning for YOUR read.

[Gamma Emerald]

I decided to look over BEF because I have a townread on nako and not him and an early group of mutual townreads seems like a good idea, and I definitely feel he’s Town for his natural looking thought processes

[Gamma Emerald]

hi im sick here are some basic thoughts cuz im too tired to go deep:

@bes its not lack of scumreads its lack of will do to anything to develop scumreads or push existing one that is my problem with kokichi

almost50 is playing more like town ap than scum ap

i dont see how anyone can read kokichi as town rn

i also dont see how nako is so sure about townread gamma

i dont see why tchill is going after drdolittle if he is doing the ok with mislynch thing when kokichi and gamma exist

gamma thinking mutual townreads is a good idea shouldn't exist esp after we just played a double day unlimited game where mutual townreads ended up being very bad

people need to clarify their ideas more

Idrk how DDU went down but here’s where the logic diverges
If I think it needs to be reconsidered I will. In DDU I don’t recall that ever happening. Mind you I didn’t say townblock. What went down in DDU was a townblock. Here I’m just trying to establish a group who can talk and work for a while. And I have done this in a past town game FYI, with odd results

[Gamma Emerald]

Also that’s a lot of little suspicions you’re throwing out Oka. Not a fan.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sephiroth of course

Oh wait is that spoilers?

I thought it was just a joke like “he’s Cloud’s daddy “

[Gamma Emerald]

@Almost50 who here have you played with?

All but Nako and Dolittle.

Hem. Who has seen you as town and in what games?

Come on, Gamma. You don't really want me to go through all my games to see who was in which!

Well, you were there when I was Town and PP got lynched as Town on D1 in Diffusion of Powers. Oka was with me in 2 games, but I only remember the one with the Cannibals flavour. Tchill in several games, including one as JJD. Hmm.. As A50 I think he was in the game where everyone was a Dayvig. Radja also in a couple of games.. I think he was in the Team Mafia one with me?? Seph has been with me in the last game I played as AP (and yes he knows it's me now). BEF also (same game as Seph). Joey has been with me in numerous games, including Civilization (which you were also in). Kokichi in 3-4 games, but I can recall the one with Wisdon & N_M where Alisae was scum with Jeanne, and one that immediately followed that where we were Neighbours, and Mastina, Chara, LLD and Toranaga were all in the game. Finally, DVa is an alt and doesn't wish to out.

Well shit. Was thinking someone on the scumteam had knowledge of your Town game and was concerned about it, but that says nothing I guess

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma why are you voting DDL and why aren't you voting kokichi?

DDL is a scumlean
Kokichi I don’t really have an opinion on

[Gamma Emerald]

why is ddl a scumlean?

if you had been in DDU the entire game, would you have lynched saudade or not_mafia earlier? Don't you think that town odds would have significantly increased had either of those two been lynched day 1?

I feel like DDL’s current contributions feel lacking from what I know of them, plus I think their voting plus wagon environment combined with my reads implicated them a little

As for DDU I prolly would have lynched NM earlier, not sure on Saudade cos I was somewhat pocketed by him. As for impact there probably would have been a greater level of meaningful interaction in lylo had one of those been Lynched over the others.

[Gamma Emerald]

kokichi = not_mafia or kokichi = saudade

Is this asking me which one I think he is more like? Cod idk

[Gamma Emerald]

Well here’s the thing: in DDU we had no way of determining alignment beyond reading people besides lynch. In a Normal we have things in that department. Kokichi is a good big shot if possible, or investigative choice as well.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty sure he is NOT N_M, as they coexisted in the first game I played with Koki.

That’s not the question lol

[Gamma Emerald]

This was the game, and N_M was using Miu Iruma as a flavoured alt (see this post)

NM is MIU? Lmao
Please tel me he really kept to the roleplay

[Gamma Emerald]

Well here’s the thing: in DDU we had no way of determining alignment beyond reading people besides lynch. In a Normal we have things in that department. Kokichi is a good big shot if possible, or investigative choice as well.

would you rather have known not_mafia/saudade was on your side or me/katy was on your side?

Probably you/Katy
I think getting pocketed is pretty dangerous

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t answer the question the same way I would decide a cop check though (at least not full cop). Cop has to get as many results as possible. So checking likely NKs isn’t a good idea, and checking likely lynches isn’t either, So the best move is to go middle of the road. For vig my advice is to shoot likely lynched that won’t help further solving via association much if they’re lynched, so tbh Kokichi is a better cop check than big shot in this scenario. When you asked me that question about who I’d like to know the alignment of, I treated it like a one shot cop. As such I thought about who would have the most impact on how I viewed the game if I got a result that supported/contradicted my conclusions.

[Gamma Emerald]

Is it important for this game that I go read DDU?

Not really, it’s just a background for a theory discussion and you should be able to comprehend without knowing all about that

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s it?

No and no. But that doesn’t make me put him in a “likely town” position. He’s made one stance as far as I’ve read. Null without prior meta at best.

So you have no scumreads?

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, I can show you games of me being passive as scum, and aggressive as town.

Isn’t your meta not that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Have you found scum yet kokichi?

I'm helping

Nice #metoo moment. I’ve done this before as scum. I now feel less apprehensive about my vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

That was me calling DDL scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma would you like to dance?

I know there's no mechanics for it in this game but I'm feeling good about you rn

Well of course I’d like to dance!

[Gamma Emerald]

I was hoping you’d explain nothing and let him puzzle over that for a while
I think some people could have been sorted using that

[Gamma Emerald]

Why aren't you dancing with nako

Because he wouldn’t get the meme
I like Joey going along with this
And I think Oka and Nako are a good match, their names are similar enough

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Joey: when was the last time you played with me?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Joey: when was the last time you played with me?

Im guessing Civ mafia, i havent played in a year of forum mefia

Okay
I thought you might have had an alt I played with recently and if I was right I would have been very upset with you

[Gamma Emerald]

Mewtaph replaces Radja!

Please welcome them

YEESSS!
What is UP my dude!

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma what do you think of Tyrion rn?

I think I already said I doubt my ability to read him
Why do you ask?

[Gamma Emerald]

???

[Gamma Emerald]

can everyone who isn't aboard the kokichi wagon explain why they aren't aboard the kokichi wagon?

I second this.

Kinda late there pal

[Gamma Emerald]

We have an entire week to go?
Honestly I’ve noticed a consistent trend of people being really panicky about deadlines these days and it is really obnoxious

[Gamma Emerald]

@DVa:

BEF: Different but could be town?
DrDoLittle: Lean town, read unlikely to change
PenguinPower: Lean town
Almost50: Lean scum
Sephiroth: Lean scum
tchill13: Solidly town

And now I know it's someone I've never played with before. (Yeah, I know I didn't play with this account, but was considering it might be an alt)

Lolwut
Mewtaph was in Death Note Mafia with us (you were Almost Chara)

[Gamma Emerald]

Like literally this BES vs Kokichi thing (very similar conversation) just happened in DDU in NASO vs Saudade and we ended up lynching NASO instead of Saudade.

You know what? I don't even know what you're talking about, but I'll trust and sheep you.

VOTE: BEF

Now I expect some to question my vote on BEF when I say I'm sheeping Oka. I had my own suspicion on BEF from earlier, and I only backed off bc DVa reminded me of something.

But I also very much understand Oka's approach (although not the incident he's referring to), and I know I have been there myself once too many where I pint out something being a scumtell based on my own experience and even provide links to previous incidents and still nobody listens. It has been 66.667% successful in nailing scum on a precise tell, and 75% on another.

So, while I can't say for sure if it's the exact same thing here I know it has to have a higher probability of nailing Scum still. In otherv words, I'm not "blindly" sheeping a read, but I'm rather sheeping a "scum hunting technique" that I'm very well familiar with.

Check Oka’s vote
And I’ll vote Kokichi because the DDL wagon is dead I guess
VOTE: Kokichi

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah a50, in my comparison bes would be town here and kokichi would be scum

@gamma did you read all of DDU?

I did not read all of it. Didn’t finish while I was alive and no point to once dead

[Gamma Emerald]

Counterarguments to BES town would be that if Gamma or DDL are scum/anyone else who read DDU they could be coaching BES to act this way. But that might be a little paranoid.

Yeah that theory is a little nutty. Why would anyone coach their scumbuddy to appeal to one specific player?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: nako

@gamma

BES = NASO
Kokichi = Saudade
Dva or Tchill = OkaPoka (?)
Okapoka or Nako = Katyusha
Joey_ = Cheeky?
DDL = Aeronaut/gamma ?

Kinda where I'm at right now.

What do you mean? Why am I Katyusha?

i think ur town and we are both possibly getting buddied pretty hard here and one of us is def on the wrong track for reads imo with our stances on kokichi

Spoiler: gamma

yeah a50, in my comparison bes would be town here and kokichi would be scum

@gamma did you read all of DDU?

I did not read all of it. Didn’t finish while I was alive and no point to once dead

how much do you recall from the DDU game/how much did you read? Did you follow my NASO and Saudade comparisons?

Why is BEF BES btw Oka? What's the S for?

idk why but i guess i thought BES was the acronym

I read all from where I replaced in and a few pages at the start, plus light ISO work
I guess the comparisons are okay but they feel like they could apply to most games

[Gamma Emerald]

The way you did the me too is that of scum hopping onto a point opportunistically. It’s similar to how scum will take and ride someone else’s excuse for their scumminess or something else. It relieves them of the responsibility a little.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which TPR game did you look at? As for the claim itself it feels kinda flat. Would expect more attitude from an unprompted L-2 claim

[Gamma Emerald]

some mini theme game where he was IC, it looked pretty diff

but yeah I don't really think I will buy joey scum here

Children of Hurin? That was a role madness, of course he’d act different

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: DDL
Maybe this can get some more votes now

[Gamma Emerald]

@DrDoolittle, you played with Tchill in a normal game on day 1 right? Does this seem like it's within his range of apathy, because in the game you two were in he had hundreds of posts. So he certainly is capable of posting on d1, or at least that's how it looks to me

Posting can still mean apathetic?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well can you link the game, there could be nuanced differences that caused that

[Gamma Emerald]

Beta is me
He’s used it to refer to me in the past

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma why are you Beta?

I MUST UNDERSTAND THIS JOKE

Both letters in the Greek alphabet
Surprised you didn’t get it when typing that

[Gamma Emerald]

It's late, Gamma-chan. Are you good with Gamma-chan?

@Mew, I don't know what to tell you, but I feel like people are either misremembering or simply lying about his meta and I want to understand why. I cannot find a towngame that looks like how he's playing here.

So the question for me then is: are people misrepresenting his meta because they actually don't remember what he looks like on d1, or are people trying to buddy him by giving him a pass despite playing like garbage? Or are people looking at some other game I didn't look at?

Because if people are willfully misrepresenting his meta (i.e. PP or DrD), then that would be scum indicative imo.

But it could be that they simply disagree, or think his meta really is different than it is.

All I know right now is that I am not seeing town games that look like this game for Tchill, so yeah, he's definitely very much on my radar rn

So I'm not sure Tchill is scum 100%, but I feel like the people casually misrepresenting his meta could be

I’m fine with most names as long as I can tell what they mean

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm... yeah. Gamma, do you think town!A50 dismisses BEF in this way?

I think A50 in general dismisses people that way

[Gamma Emerald]

You can read my interaction with Dva from posts 566 through 594.

Don't really feel like re-explaining myself.

VOTE: pp

You never explain yourself as town. Gotcha

Is this a fact?

Actually it is

[Gamma Emerald]

Is this a fact?

Pretty much.

I'm not sure how saying I didn't want to re-explain is explaining though...

Yeah this was my reservation too.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: PenguinPower
Okay this is approaching lolcat territory

[Gamma Emerald]

Seems like PP is just coming in when mentioned at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

p-sure Nako unvoted so try again.

Not sure what game you're referring to, but if you want to insult me based on one game, at least link it.

DoP lol

[Gamma Emerald]

joey wanna vote tchill cuz he isn't playing the game?

Explain?

[Gamma Emerald]

Mew and Tchill are partners GG.

Ngl don’t like the lack of any consideration of Mew being a concerned townie

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t like this at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

Speed and counterwagon
Though the composition actually looks alright
Idk what deadline has to do with it

[Gamma Emerald]

I am ok with this.
VOTE: chill

EBWOP That's L-2

Speed and counterwagon
Though the composition actually looks alright
Idk what deadline has to do with it

I'm not so sure now. My top 2 scum reads are on my 3rd scum read's wagon. Maybe they are trying to help PP.
I don't know, but maybe a little L-1 can push us along further.

VOTE: PenguinPower

SSS CCC UUU MMM

@Gamma: Just vote Tchill. Trust me.

I’d rather vote PP rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: BEF

Let's not split the votes PLEASE. We need to get a serious wagon going, and even the PP wagon (whom I believe is Town) doesn't look serious enough.

@Seph: We're going to have yet another post-game conversation I guess.. unless you ARE scum (because then I will understand your play).

What makes you think my vote isn’t serious

[Gamma Emerald]

Nako why are you answering for A50? Last time I checked you don't even have games with him?? You've played like two games onsite

The question was sideballed at her

[Gamma Emerald]

Nako why are you answering for A50? Last time I checked you don't even have games with him?? You've played like two games onsite

I am answering why I did not consider A50 was rolefishing.

Your read on him implicitly in

Probably town but hard to sort:
Almost50, Joey (If they are seriously mason, locktown with kokichi)

Why are they probably town? Why are they hard to sort? If they are hard to sort, then clearly your read shows that it was easy for you to sort the slot, so it isn't really true is it?

And it 100% was rolefishing and you are scummy for trying to say otherwise.

Actually not liking this by Mewtaph

[Gamma Emerald]

A50, how hard are you trying to distort associations with your scum partners? Because it doesn't work when your intent is this obvious.

Def feeling Mewtaph as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

unvote

A50s anger here is fake. He spent like 6 posts answering my one and then each one he got progressively more upset over what's a very reasonable post. I'm perfectly happy to not interact with you anymore because you're throwing a temper tantrum over nothing right now.

VOTE: A50

Nah it looks natural

[Gamma Emerald]

What makes you think my vote isn’t serious

Apart from my love of gifs, why is your vote serious?

The meta point against you felt semi-valid, plus you reacted like typical caught scum when you saw that point (hence why the gifs/pics are a scum thing)

[Gamma Emerald]

Didn't you say you had reservation based on the fact that I didn't actually explain anything?

The gifs are a things regardless of my alignment...you should know that.

Yea I did. The thing that swayed me was the gifs. And they may be NAI normally but the timing tells me something else.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yea I did. The thing that swayed me was the gifs. And they may be NAI normally but the timing tells me something else.

What does the timing tell you? I've been using them since post one.

You have been using them since post one but they were sprinkled in. After the meta point it was a rush of gifs.

[Gamma Emerald]

You have been using them since post one but they were sprinkled in. After the meta point it was a rush of gifs.

Really?

Spoiler:

O shit, penguingifs is transforming into penguinjpgs!

NOW WE HAVE SEEN HIS TRUE FORM

Do you see something there that might relate them?

What a rush!

Argh this is a good point but I don’t want to let my gut go ignored

What makes you think my vote isn’t serious

Apart from my love of gifs, why is your vote serious?

The meta point against you felt semi-valid, plus you reacted like typical caught scum when you saw that point (hence why the gifs/pics are a scum thing)

Just curious, what about it seems 'caught scum' instead of 'ignoring the wagon bc it doesnt seem that serious'? I read it as the second more than anything else which to me is NAI.

What about seems like ignoring the wagon?

[Gamma Emerald]

Fuck no I can't. I think you may know why. Let's not speak of this again...

I was wondering

btw your new avi is really cute!

I have an idea for a 4-headed hydra with Sephiroth but I’d need two others to join

[Gamma Emerald]

I scum read PP on poe at the time which was why I joined the wagon. I acknowledged when I made my vote that I didn't understand the reason his wagon started, and was questioned by PP about this when I did vote him. This interaction with PP is what started me to lean town on him. Feel free to find all this in my ISO.

I am asking why are you

still

voting PP if you think they are town?

wait can someone give me a tldr on why PP is scum other than too many gifs. I waded through pages and pages and realized I never got a case.

I believe the arguments include
"PP doesn't explain himself as town" i.e. this is not his town meta -- Kokichi
"PP is misrepresenting Tchill's meta" i.e. he might have been trying to buddy Tchill -- DVa
"PP is lolcatting as caught scum" i.e. he reacted poorly to the push by me and Kokichi -- Gamma-chan
"The day is too long" i.e. it was the leading wagon -- Tyrion
"PP is not me" i.e. he doesn't want to be the leading wagon anymore -- BEF

I think that summarizes everyone's reason for being on the wagon rn

Like yo
Read the game

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah DVa you can be one of the heads

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you still want to lynch PP, Dva?

Very good question lol, I've been thinking about this, especially cause I don't like 2 of the votes on the wagon

overall, I'd say... how do I put this... "I

don't not

want to lynch PP." ya, I feel like compared to Diffusion of Power, where he was in fact mislynched on day 1, he feels... very passive and not nearly as aggressive. even so, compared to Epic Duel, where he was NOT mislynched day 1, but was a leading candidate, it seems... a bit closer? ugh. really, he seems tonally different. a lot more willing to kinda talk through his reads.

He seems more reserved and, as Gamma-chan said, lolcatty.

You can compare:

If he is town, I think this is the closest analogue to his play here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

If he is scum, it is because we have not seen any of the combativeness or counter-push evident here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Between the two, I feel like he is dissimilar enough to both town games that my suspicions have not been abated and I believe he has decent scum equity.

There are other candidates.
>Tyrion is not really playing to his town meta imo, and if he is, then he should be lynched so he starts playing d1s again. I would accept a mislynch on a town Tyrion based on his play here, and I would be pissed if he was scum and we gave him a free pass.
>BEF is very much within his range as scum, his votes have seemed a bit survivalistic and opportunistic, and I think he is capable of deeper reasoning as town

So I guess right now I would prefer PP but I'm not really dead set on him. He seems like a solid wagon all things considered.

So did you spectate DoP or was that a game you played on your main?

[Gamma Emerald]

So it's either BFE or Gamma.

Random question, why in your mind can’t both BEF and me be scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

It seems like how I would respond if I didn't think a wagon really warranted a response because it wasn't that serious. It also seems like how I might respond if I wanted people to think I wasn't taking the wagon that seriously. Thus NAI. Now you go.

I wasn’t asking about whether he thought it was serious, I can see your point there
I’m asking about what about his play looked like he was ignoring the wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

It seems like how I would respond if I didn't think a wagon really warranted a response because it wasn't that serious. It also seems like how I might respond if I wanted people to think I wasn't taking the wagon that seriously. Thus NAI. Now you go.

I wasn’t asking about whether he thought it was serious, I can see your point there
I’m asking about what about his play looked like he was ignoring the wagon

I guess we're having a miscommunication in terminology. The above is what I meant by ignoring the wagon. Not like literally ignore it happening, just not really respond to it in a way that gives it any credence. Sorry if that was a confusing turn of phrase.

Okay. I see your point and agree it’s possible, but your analysis doesn’t exempt him from being scum, and I just really don’t want to let this go

[Gamma Emerald]

And I think the clearest reason I’ve seen for voting BEF is he didn’t explain his reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d rather not have to dive a bunch of games rn
Can you just give me a play-by-play of how his meta differs?

[Gamma Emerald]

What about Mew as a dark horse pick tho

[Gamma Emerald]

BEF who even are these alleged scum reads

[Gamma Emerald]

Very good post. DVa is town.

Agreed. Not because of the post precisely, but because I was finally able to lock her main down without doubt, and this is Town her.

Oh fun
Could you give me a hint?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not full claiming.

It's best I'm not lynched though.

The hell is this supposed to mean?

[Gamma Emerald]

I already wear glasses, I’m just terrible at reading subtext

[Gamma Emerald]

And you think your wagon is all Town? Who do you think the scum is?

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly I’m kinda opposed to the TChill lynch actually, the emotions I’m seeing make sense with his Town meta of being aggressive about disliking long D1s

[Gamma Emerald]

can we just lynch this? intent to hammer has been given, and you are refusing to dive into the game or claim.

also gamma

emotions are easy to fake

Maybe, but it feels extremely in-line with the established town meta

[Gamma Emerald]

Real clever

[Gamma Emerald]

Works for me. Yes I'm that spiteful.

What?

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re that spiteful, what does that mean?

[Gamma Emerald]

Tchill placed his vote to replace -1. His vote was already on you.

But I don't completely buy you didn't know that tbh.

Yeah, that was super obv and I don’t like the claim coming at that point

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Tchill13
Nah that reads fake as fuck now

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s -1

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Tchill

A50’s last vote before that

[Gamma Emerald]

Oka Hammer pls

[Gamma Emerald]

honestly gamma, have you ever took a moment and asked yourself if you should make a post before making it? like "what good is me making this post going to do?"

Yes
What’s the point of this shade?

[Gamma Emerald]

any people who know how to program and do fancy things with strings and stuff + has free time

What why

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm about to do coloring vcs manually but if someone knows how to program/automatically color code them already then I don't need to manually do this

There’s some way to locate the instances of a word and color it in
I can’t do that cos mobile tho

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, if Kokichi and Joey are masons for real, the game is pretty much solvable at this point. Maybe we should do massclaim, who agrees?

I would think a game would be well designed enough to make massclaiming not able to mechsolve a game on d2 but idk the micro normal I recently modded was ehhhh

[Gamma Emerald]

You download the gif and reupload to imgur

then you link the gif from imgur

unless it is already hosted at imgur or a stable site, in which case you just link it

Imgur is banned in my country though
Do you know any other sites? Actually I can check it online.

Where the hell do you live?

[Gamma Emerald]

-^-

[Gamma Emerald]

I know people who don’t use outed neighborhoods/masonries

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mewtaph
I’m not 100% on this rn but I’d like to start here

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait who is claiming rbed?

[Gamma Emerald]

I do think that’s a stretch in a 13p Mini Normal
That would block 50% of toen power in a lot of games if it was thrown in without adjustment

[Gamma Emerald]

Roleblocker/acero both give no result
So either would mean blocked

[Gamma Emerald]

why are we voting sephiroth before penguin tho

VOTE: penguinpower

Honestly I forget why people voted Seph in the first place

[Gamma Emerald]

?

[Gamma Emerald]

And I'm not convinced your read progression on me is natural Gamma.

Understandable, my read on you just soured when I saw a string of posts I didn’t like the motives I sensed for

[Gamma Emerald]

fair enough but that implies you know it was a vig shot on BEF?

Ew what? This looks like you trying to Jedi mind trick DrDolittle’s argument into one that makes him look bad

[Gamma Emerald]

Like how does that imply KNOWLEDGE of such a thing? It implicitly states that he thinks that the case, but he didn’t say you were for sure hypoclaiming to fish out the role that stopped your kill. He just stated that was his theory.
VOTE: OkaPoka

[Gamma Emerald]

So Oka started a hypoclaim I think to try to bait out night information, since as scum he has more to work with.

Note the words “I think”
I wasn’t even sure my proof existed but BOOM.

[Gamma Emerald]

anyways case on ddl could be typed but alternatively you could go to the DDU game, go to page 2 of katyusha's iso, ctrl+f "stating" and see katy's case on me about stating motivations and creating narratives vs genuine scumhunting

gamma is just a player who
has no fire to their spirit. if ur going to vote me and call me out for my bullshit then you need to be a little more combative than that

Lol don’t let DDU mislead you, I can fight real hard, I just dislike fighting losing battles these days.

[Gamma Emerald]

i need gamma to tell me if A50 v Sephiroth was a normal emotional reaction from a50 because if AP is truly like a persona account then i know nothing about A50

I don’t see anything abnormal about how A50 responded
And yeah, AP and A50 do have different styles

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

Why are we not voting here?

Why are you?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really want the game state to stall but I can also see how I could be destroying town unity and possibly letting at least 1 lurker scum pass through without much notice. So I'm going to be relatively quieter for a bit.

This actually feels dissonant. Concerned about lurker scum, but going to lurk himself?

[Gamma Emerald]

Once upon not so long ago there was this Town that couldn't agree to have a 3 player wagon intact long enough for a 4th person to join it. This Town lost the game. The End.

Vote Oka then

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk what you’re getting at with your associatives because you drill in scenario a but then throw in scenario b and just throw your hands in the air and say “everyone else figure this out”.

[Gamma Emerald]

Interesting to note:
We have PP wagon hit L1, then A50 gives intent to hammer to force out a claim (never follows through as ->
We hit an A50 emotional "break", then Sephiroth votes A50, putting down Penguin to L2.
Wagon remains stagnant, and essentially DDL starts a new counterwagon on BEF.
But the BEF (town) wagon gains steam as a counterwagon from non PP wagon-ers, also gains steam extremely quickly.
Only Sephiroth is a former PP wagoner.
Joey_ and Dva have a quick conversation, then Dva initiates a swap to tchill, PP wagon-ers go directly to Tchill.
The breaking point I believe is when Nako, a BEF wagoner switches to l1 Tchill. Literally any swap would have switched the momentum of the wagons from either BEF or Tchill, scum can be pretty content here.
and then we have the whole tchill mess.
But both BEF and tchill are town, so its kinda hard to analyze here.

I decided to try and get to the root of the deal because Oka’s post was a continuation of something that changed the focus, and I actually think PP might be a good wagon for another reason. We had 2 town wagons and PP as a third towards the end of D1. As such I think that points to PP being scum.
VOTE: PenguinPower

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t know that

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is a slot I'm having trouble having a strong opinion on so I'm fine discussing for a bit.

Gamma dismissing A50's in thread theatrics as genuine and turning on me as a "dark horse pick" (1147, 1148, 1292) immediately is alarming because it was an extremely sharp progression from their previous call on me being possibly a "concerned townie" (1071). I didn't take this as majorly AI in any one direction (need more content there to decide if it comes from town or scum intent) but it definitely put them on my radar. There is no way that A50 isn't aware of how he might genuinely react as town and then turn it up all the way to 100% because it's "genuine frustration" AFTER declaring intent to hammer and desire for a claim in 1101. Keep in mind this was on D1 before A50 claimed gunsmith today. How does Gamma ignore this? To what extent can genuine frustration come from town before they realise they should stop posting and take a step back and to what extent can scum take some form of frustration towards another player and then extent it for their own personal gain? Also, in terms of me "softballing" the question to Nako back on D1, I thought it was extremely important to highlight the depth of their reads because I have felt no depth from their read on me nor their reads list. They were pushing people stated in 933 in their "Feels somehow scummy but can just be the meta" category with their votes and wagons, before their "Scum in here" category. I think Nako's reads against their actions have been a bit weird if town.

@Gamma, what exactly is your read on me?

You hopped off of my wagon onto an Oka vote but most of your stances thus far with your slot have felt a bit like commentary on me as events unfold rather than a growing read progression - for how much doubt you've shown towards my slot, why aren't you more engaged in sorting me out into a definite category?

You’re still in my scumpile, just not my preferred vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw your last couple posts are very hard to digest, pls reduce paragraph size

[Gamma Emerald]

Because when I was voting Oka he was driving the game so it was wiser to vote the one I perceived as a danger to Town, now I’m just feeling more confident on PP

[Gamma Emerald]

Plot twist

I recently got a short-term contract at my new job which explains why I have been less active and much busier. That being said, I don't feel like my slot is pursuing its wincon like it could and should, therefore, I will be replacing out

That being said, I am sorry koki and I would have loved to have more time and feel confident in my reads on you but it's just not the case in this game, I am not invested enough to feel competent

>I fakeclaimed mason with koki for numerous reasons, i made a little notes for you guys in the even that i had to explain myself :

Spoiler:

Hi, so i made that note @ 2:30 am just after unvoting the fish so the game hopefully slow down a bit, people will unvote koki and fishy wont get hammered before i get to control the future days a bit.

So, since i decided that i hardclaimed mason with an heavily fosed slot, i feel like i have to justify myself and prepare something that is thoughtful and exhaustive enough so i don’t get insulted for playing against my wincon (if i get killed n1 i will post this in GY) or ridiculed for my poor choice if koki turns up to be a dirty mefia.

Lets talk about mechanics. I hardtownread Gamma and oka, i dont think theres a world where those 2 ever flip mefia. That being said, Oka is an annoying chicken and hes very loud, hes pushing on Koki, a slot i can read, and distract everyone else from actual scummy people that can be an issue; namely anyone who are great at lylo like a50, seph and the likes.

Uno, I, personally, think that using the whole day to remove a readable slot that can help a lot as town, is bad for town.

Secondo, if i can clear, even temporarily koki, from everyone’s mind they might make more relevant content and find the mefia instead of focusing on him.

Thirdo, i think our D1 is naturally laid out in a way where its very believable we are indeed mason, making the claim even more tempting and relevant.

Quatro, the claim itself is a non issue. Like DVA said, i expect koki from baiting to be killed so hes either VT or a pr who gains from getting targeted. Either way, i am playing for my wincon by letting koki be a target (since hes fosed) and potentially playing into koki’s plan to bait a kill.

Cinquo, its D1 and its the beginning of the game, we have like 2 Mls so its a great situation to fakeclaim trying to get some edge over the mefia. Also, if any of us dies it confirms that the claim is false, so i couldnt clear koki’s w/o having the power to retract my claim, even in death.

Sexto, i hope you guys stll love me and think i made a good decision (hopefully hes town like i said).

That being said, i expected one of us to die anyway but the longer i kept the claim, the longer the wagon analysis and other pr claim credibility will be affected. Like an investigative role with masons is much rarer, hence the 3 claims ish makes more sens from my pov of fake masons.

Dont be mad at me please and do not just turn on koki for no reason just because he isnt clear anymore, that would be just stupid. I also claimed obviously because I wont let my replacement go back on my claim and try to justify my reasoning

@Mod : Replace me please

Thanks for being upfront at least.
Now I’d like to warn everyone that whether or not the claim was gone along with by the claimants is NOT grounds for a lock read.

[Gamma Emerald]

Kokichi fake claimed?



I feel my point brought up on D1 may be relevant after all.

FTFY

[Gamma Emerald]

Now I’d like to warn everyone that whether or not the claim was gone along with by the claimants is NOT grounds for a lock read.

I'm having a hard time parsing your meaning here. Explain more clearly pls.

In a couple past games scum was badly locktowned by a town player for how they handled Town fakeclaiming mason with them. I don’t want that happening again.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah
I don’t think scum makes that play but it’s not 100% so I’m giving this warning to anyone who may feel similar

[Gamma Emerald]

I understand. Sometimes I wonder if I should post a gif if it has someone that isn't DVa in it. Every now and then, I'm like, maybe I should post a gif of Tracer. But then I never do. It just doesn't feel right.

Maybe I’ll be Tracer (I’m already Tracer!)

[Gamma Emerald]

It was a single negative that looked like a double negative

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah gamma, what do you think of my fake claim?

I think it’s possible you as scum realized Joey would go with it because of your history, but that depends how he read you time of, as if he townread you then it makes more sense

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh not feeling it
Earlier I felt he was lackluster contribution wise and that’s why I pushed him, but now there’s more and I think especially D2 he’s picked up the pace, even if it looks like it’s in response to Oka’s pressure

[Gamma Emerald]

I think especially D2 he’s picked up the pace

How do you think he's picked up the pace?

2/3 of his posts are from D1...

Well his posts feel more relevant, meatier, and I feel like they’re not coming in slowly
Maybe the third is a result of the first two but it’s still significant

[Gamma Emerald]

[quote="In post 2047, Nako]

Reads posts 0

Umm...[/quote]
Wdym post 0

[Gamma Emerald]

BTW Gamma, which game you were talking about masons and Kokichi?

When did I say something about Lokichi being a mason in a past game?

[Gamma Emerald]

I made a push on DDL at the start of the game when he was not posting. He came in and posted some, but overall I don't see his participation to be active or fruitful.

This is not what I think at all? Talk about this.

[Gamma Emerald]

first i didn't say im extremely invested in teh game. second you should look at the content in addition to the count...

Okay this looks kinda bad, I believe I saw Dunnstral as scum execute the “me doing the thing I’m scumreading you for doesn’t invalidate my read” thing, and iirc it was to town Kokichi.

[Gamma Emerald]

If I could gladiate the votes off of DDL for the rest of the day, I would. Let's not lynch town today. If you couldn't vote for DDL, who would you vote for?

You.

@skitter

if I sent you the the unexpiring gifs, would you change it with the gifs that expired? Because I think my reactions could be AI just in case and it is unfair to people that did not see it?

What?

[Gamma Emerald]

That is crazy but I don’t think its 100% wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh I don’t like DDL as much rn.

intent to hammer

[Gamma Emerald]

What even

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know about

DrDolittle

very much but I think he would try more as mafia and less as town at this point,

Gamma

, what do you think?

Why color the names that way? And I recall in 2024 he was pretty active

[Gamma Emerald]

DVa I think I townread but I’ve mostly not worried about her because personality so that’s a possible blind spot
PP Idk about his actions but I think the wagon case Oka made might have some value

[Gamma Emerald]

I can do that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who else claimed JK?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok
So far I only see 2/3 PRs (this is without/with vigilante). Where’s the other 1/2?

[Gamma Emerald]

So if PP is town scum probably were ambivalent on all the wagons. Idk who that would fit yet but I know there was a fiat amount of vote shifting from specific sets of people.
Can someone else look into this? I wanna do some other things rn but if it’s not done when I’m ready to do it I’ll work on it myself.

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma, you are part of NRG right? What would a balanced setup look like to you ?

Not NRG but I might be able to if I tried. I’ll assume A50 and DDL are claiming full GS and JK and aren’t fake claiming/scum. Now this is reflective of a certain type of setup, the “Cop+JK” archetype. This exists as an answer to Follow the Cop strats, as whole the JK can protect the Cop it’ll also stop results. Some instances are mini 1838, my first experience with that setup style, and mini 1861, a game I modded that was actually based on 1838.
Sometimes this is toyed with, like in Booneytoonz IV, where there was a loyal Cop rather than regular Cop, thus making the JK’s protection more antitown if they hit the cop. Of course because the cop is aware of this they can make a judgment call of whether their result is a true guilty. I can actually describe how this can go down in practice because I was the loyal Cop in that game. Night 1 I got a no result on creative who was scum, but I was also JKed that night. Because of my pre-disposition to think creative was Town, I assumed I was blocked. But developments changed my thinking and I dropped the hammer at the end of Day 2.
Now to this game. The Cop seems to be swapped with GS, which has a lot less certainty in its results. The only normal role that can deceive the cop is Miller, while a GS can get false guilties on cops and cop variants, vigilantes, and a few other roles I don’t have filed away. It can also get false clears on a mafia doctor or traitor, so Mafia Doctor is often used as a counter the same way a mafia ninja is used to counter a watcher. Traitor can be used this way but it’s less common. A lot of GS setups seem to be based on playing with their result reliability from some research I did on something. So either something exists to give it a false positive or false negative.
As for what else to expect, I think a weaker town PR would fill out the game if it is just 3 goons, but I’d there’s a mafia doctor a stronger PR would be balanced. Mafia traitor I can’t say because it’s so rare to see it used as a GS counter that I can’t give an estimate on whether the boon of the false clear or the blow of the lost strength of numbers would be more impactful.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah mastina is pretty creative, in and out of normal games

[Gamma Emerald]

For implosion I don’t know much about his review meta but I can look around I guess

[Gamma Emerald]

See, my non-ascetic claim makes the claim less believable. If one of DDL/DVa flips scum then the other has a very strong chance to. Do not ignore this.

Why???

[Gamma Emerald]

If scum doesn't know if I'm ascetic or not, then they can't make the roleblocked A50 claim because they don't actually know if I'm ascetic or not. Whereas if town roleblocked A50, they already know and don't need me to claim ascetic or not.

Why can’t they do that in that case?

[Gamma Emerald]

Depends on how DDL was playing. If he wanted to go for blocking kills that would make sense.

[Gamma Emerald]

Bear in mind suspected scum probably won’t make the kill because of the possibility of a Roleblocker