Mini Normal 2041 [Game Over]

[DVa]

Hey fam!



VOTE: Nako

[DVa]

Radja’s questions feel loaded

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Why didn't you vote him after this question when you weren't voting anyone over him?

[DVa]

Gamma any impression of Tchill yet?

[DVa]

I kinda wanna see how he reacts to a wagon on him, want to join me and find out?

VOTE: Tchill

[DVa]

I'm really not sure what's going on in this game with all the talks about alts and whatnot.
I'm reading Tchill town I think the wagon on him is dumb. Nako why did you decide to pile on.
Nako misquoting thing is stupid and not alignment indicative.

VOTE: DrDolittle

VOTE: DrDolittle

[DVa]

I’m trying to think if I like this wagon
On one hand DDL went after one of my townreads so that’s not a good thing
But I don’t really see why he’s being wagoned

You should join it and see if you like it

[DVa]

Why would someone join the DDL wagon in your mind?

cause it has me and Nako on it

[DVa]

I agree that there were suspicious votes, but I think those can be early distances.

What do you think of Sephora?

[DVa]

Wait. Almost50 = Austin Powers? Posting styles seem very similar.

Dva and nako are you both alts?

I am an alt, no I'm not going to out my main, and I have enough completed games on this account that you can already meta me if you want.

Almost50 is AP (Austin Powers)

[DVa]

I guess it's hilarious that I self voted with the intent of being wagon and people stayed away from it lol. I have no idea why. That's weird.

You didn't notice DrD white knighting you while shading what was obviously a pressure wagon for content then?

[DVa]

DVa, why did you ask my opinion on Seph?

cause he's voting you and you didn't react

[DVa]

So you did. I kinda meant that he's still voting you, i.e. he hasn't moved off his rvs

[DVa]

I'm kinda out of it actually, I don't know why I'm posting on Halloween

[DVa]

DrD what's your impression of PenguinGifs, Sephora, and Neegan?

[DVa]

Gamma where are you on PenguinGifs, Sephora, and BearAvatar?

[DVa]

Dva do i know you?

Unless you're an alt, I don't think so

[DVa]

Dva do i know you?

But you COULD get to know me!

What are you doing for Halloween?

I'm figuring out which 6 pages of a 32 page document I'm going to cut for a job application for a job I'm probably not going to get

FUN

[DVa]

They wanted a writing sample cause it's a job that includes lots of writing.

Be careful tho, Okapoka might think that being sociable and friendly is a sign you're trying to buddy me.

To be fair, I can't take credit for Sephora, I think I saw someone else make that joke first and I just liked it.

[DVa]

Why the shade?

You made an accusation of buddying off like a single sheep on page 5 or something, yeah you earned some shade

[DVa]

Cause Nako town af

[DVa]

She's been town since page 1 dude try to keep up

Her judgment doesn't have to be good atm, but giving her votes more weight means that the reaction tests during this phase of the game will be more focused and effective. Until someone is obviously scum, there's no reason for everyone to pushing in a different direction.

[DVa]

Oh BearAvi <3

[DVa]

Can everyone give me what alignment do they prefer and describe their scumgame with few sentences?

I don't prefer alignment either, and I like doing derps and i like pocketing as scum. It is not that easy for me to play scum though, I usually freeze. But i do weird things as scum, they are just more incosistent than my town play.

when is this not town? like you can say scum writes this p1 but you'd be wrong

[DVa]

Oh BearAvi <3

this was irt 320 not 321 btw

[DVa]

because anything to get town out of the drudgery of RVS is protown and her self-evaluation in 19 almost exclusively comes from town if posted on page 1. it just does dude, like you can keep being wrong if you want but don't shade my girl or her votes

[DVa]

idk why but I'm kinda feeling like swinging my vote back to tchill, not really lockscum on him but I think I've gotten what I wanted from bearavi.

Who has a better vote for me rn than tchill?

[DVa]

When did I shade Nako?

Why can't scum act in a protown fashion?

Why can't scum give an honest evaluation of their self meta?

I have seen your questions but rn I kinda think you're just a tryhard town and your push on me to over-explain a townread is pretty tiresome

unless you have a dope case against Nako I have no reason to re-evaluate my first impression, her engagement has been dope so far

[DVa]

A50, I mean the thing is I don't disagree

I guess now I'm less certain a pressure wagon on that particular player will lead to 'good' results for the town

cause he seems to implode as either alignment under pressure

[DVa]

It would be dangerous to lock town anyone this hard this early.

clearly someone who has played with radiantcowbells

[DVa]

no, just thought it was a funny criticism considering the level of certainty a lot of regulars on this site exude when it comes to early game reads

when I have a strong early game read they tend to be right. When I become confident on a read, I tend to remain confident on that read, unless I have a good reason to re-evaluate. So far I have not had one

[DVa]

very presumptuous

yeah, this guy is going to be annoying

my read is "very presumptuous"

like you're not making me want to engage you even though you're still probably town

I liked someone enough to sheep their vote to generate pressure and help get the game going -- that's not presumptuous, it's called playing the game bro

[DVa]

Dva can you elaborate about puffyfish imploding when pressurized

unfortunately I can't without breaking the spirit of site rules. I can just say, as a general statement, that you can investigate on your own if you desire, that he tends to implode under pressure

[DVa]

answer this question please, am interested in how you play

unfortunately the game I'm thinking of I was dead before I was actually asked my townreads, but in Boundaries of Reality I correctly townread Gamma Emerald and Hebichan by page 2 based on RVS interactions. But the iso there won't prove my point so I guess I'll have to concede I can't prove my early *stated* reads, as town, tend to be correct.

[DVa]

BEF what's your reads of PenguinGifs, Gammachan, and Neegan?

[DVa]

where's the leaderboard?

[DVa]

ngl I was not expecting Titus to be #1

[DVa]

Nako what do you think of A50 atm?

[DVa]

I have some mixed feelings about BearAvi being lynched today, but I can't decide if there's a better wagon out of Cloud'sDaddy, PenguinGifs, Tyrion, and Neegan.

[DVa]

Sephiroth of course

Oh wait is that spoilers?

[DVa]

Not spoilers if you don't know the franchise I guess

VOTE: Neegan

[DVa]

I'm fine with lynching kokichi or DDL today.

are you townreading Neegan?

[DVa]

I thought it was just a joke like “he’s Cloud’s daddy “

yes, let's go with this

[DVa]

Kokichi vote Neegan?

[DVa]

Cause it's the cool wagon right now

[DVa]

What about it?

[DVa]

Is there a Fugu in this game?

Neegan is obvious man it's his avi

Neegan:

[DVa]

I had to google TJ Hooker and now I'm flummoxed I didn't know William Shatner was in a cop show

[DVa]

BearAvi can I interest you in a hot and spicy Neegan wagon?

[DVa]

He writes one post a day to push crappy wagons on likely town

[DVa]

and kokichi

[DVa]

maybe if you and gamma both join he will gain some motivation to do more than one post per day?

[DVa]

What do you think of Radja PenguinGifs?

[DVa]

Do you see scum motivation in his posts?

and/or

do you find anything convincing in Neegan's case on Kokichi?

[DVa]

His main stance is that he has been volunteering to be the recipient of night actions

when does scum do that?

[DVa]

yeah but does his play in that game look even remotely like his play this game penguin? like here he is exclusively lynch/night action bait; in that game he looks a lot more proactive and more tonally enthusiastic

at a glance I'd say he likes playing scum more and he seems kinda bored here

[DVa]

Null without prior meta at best.

what did you mean with this btw? it seems like you have played together before

[DVa]

Proactive? He's making pointless conversation and not delving deeper. Maybe he has one or two posts that do things but the others don't do anything. Why is drawing night actions a good thing?

he spends the first 20ish posts of his iso commenting on whether people have contributed and directly responding to how he feels about people's posts while pushing a wagon... that is not similar to his play here. you can say he only has surface level play, but you would need to show him having non-surface level play as town to argue he is scum here, because his scum game *based on penguins example* looks different than his play in this game

[DVa]

@Penguin so you're saying you have no meta because you have only seen him play scum? So why not look at one of his games, refrain from looking at his flip before you read his iso, then see if you can guess correctly

[DVa]

You can't directly quote a locked game, but iso 2-5, 7-17, and 19-24 all looks like a lot more engagement than what we've seen here and is tonally night and day

[DVa]

like, tbh, this guy looks easy af to read. if he isn't trying he's town, if he's pushy and aggressive he's scum. prove me wrong

[DVa]

You can't? I mean, before I actually do I want to make sure that no one else can. Because I can.

I cannot click the quote button and copy/paste that; it redirects me to a message saying the thread is locked. I could copy paste the plaintext but it would lose all formatting.

[DVa]

I mean, I can show you games of me being passive as scum, and aggressive as town.

Please do

[DVa]

You can. You just have to click PM and then copy and paste it.

did not know this, it works thanks!

[DVa]

I'm retracting my towncase of Kokichi

[DVa]

Can someone tell me why Neegan was being scumread?

He's basically posting one weak case every other day which strikes me as active lurking.

What's your read of Tchill?

[DVa]

He seemed to actually want to be townread, whereas you did not.

Shitposting+Night Action baiting is not the same thing as active lurking with the attempt to appear townish

[DVa]

Neegan seemed to actually want to be townread, whereas you did not.

Shitposting+Night Action baiting is not the same thing as active lurking with the attempt to appear townish

ebwop

[DVa]

I think he lurked more as scum before, though. But, I don't remember. The game was over a year ago.

this is re: tchill right?

[DVa]

Can you link the Tchill scumgame you're thinking of or any other Tchill game you feel is relevant to analyzing his behavior here?

[DVa]

Hmm, we never really got a reaction from Radja tho

[DVa]

Gamma would you like to dance?

I know there's no mechanics for it in this game but I'm feeling good about you rn

[DVa]

btw i retract that since im lazy and you guys were talking about his meta, but if you really really want me to dig i can (but im lazy)

I still think Kokichi is town but if he's just going to shitpost we should stop defending him

[DVa]

the little monkey,

Kinda tired at this point tonight, who is this?

[DVa]

btw i retract that since im lazy and you guys were talking about his meta, but if you really really want me to dig i can (but im lazy)

I still think Kokichi is town but if he's just going to shitpost we should stop defending him

Why should we stop defending town by your read ?

He needs to town up and start playing and defending him will not allow others to generate that pressure

[DVa]

the little monkey,

Kinda tired at this point tonight, who is this?

a50

why? what did he post that was AI?

[DVa]

the little monkey,

Kinda tired at this point tonight, who is this?

pretty sure its a50

can we stop using fancy nicknames for people its getting really annoying to have to pull up the playerlist and have all their pfps open to see who everyone is referring to

I mean yeah but it's also cause it was surprising to see a read change on 50Monkeys when he hasn't said anything in 100 posts and even then it wasn't that impactful tbh

[DVa]

You can disagree with my mirror tell but its when he exclaimed himself that gamma had towntold plus he said something like that to me in Civ mefia a year ago. So same phrasing + mirror

I guess but why do you think something like this is something he wouldn't do as either alignment or fake for your benefit?

[DVa]

lol that's a funny question

thinking about it, but so far we have usually waited for a reaction from the player we push before switching off

[DVa]

I doubt he would care enough to fake something for my benefit from a game over a year ago. Also, i doubt he would need to make another post just to reiterate that gamma towntold (when hes townread by some and scumread by other iirc).

I just think it was town behavior, but again im being cautious on the little monkey because hes a good player, but i know i hardtownread him correctly in civ so we will see

I guess I kinda just feel that saying you have a towntell for bullshit meta reasons is possibly *the* easiest thing to fake as scum

[DVa]

what your read on the monkey?

He has a separate towntell that I'm waiting for so I'd rather not explain it atm, but until I see it he's null/leanscum

[DVa]

No I wasn't saying you're scum faking a townread, I was saying he was potentially scum faking a townread

although I guess townreads often seem like bullshit, meh

[DVa]

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[DVa]

I think i recalled he used the words "Towntold" but what felt the same is that he was being enthusiastic in finding town, you know? That what i felt there with his towntold post

Yeah I guess my issue is that I've seen A50 make so many of these reachy overstatements on his reads for oblique reasons that I have a hard time believing he couldn't fake it as scum

but I'm also fine not lynching him rn, I think I'd put tyrion below him atm

[DVa]

So... what does this mean? Are you friends now or going to 1v1 it out?

the former

[DVa]

Townier
Nako / Gamma-chan / OkaPokey
Joey_From_Friends
Kokichi AFK
BrightEyedFish / DrBearAvi
PenguinGifs / 50Monkeys / Sephiroth
Tyrion
Neegan
Scummier

Feel like I'm somewhere around here atm

[DVa]

I was hoping you’d explain nothing and let him puzzle over that for a while
I think some people could have been sorted using that

hmm, maybe, but I don't like that much needless wifom. idk maybe I play too straightforwardly sometimes

[DVa]

Gamma do you think Oka is good enough for Nako?

[DVa]

Personally I would have supported Joey dancing with Kokichi until Kokichi decided to basically not try at all.

Hmm who else is good enough for Joey?

[DVa]

[DVa]

I can't believe this day 1 still isn't over lol. Kinda ridiculous.

Why? We're not even halfway through day 1 and you're not hard pushing a wagon and don't seem certain on having caught scum?

Dva kokichi and DDL. I'd shoot them all today, with vig shots if I could.

What is this, OMGUS? What don't you like about my posts? This feels like a really fake reaction to the thread tbh

VOTE: Tyrion

Is anyone actually townreading Tyrion atm?

[DVa]

BEF what do you think of Tyrion rn?

[DVa]

I've read 5 of 30 pages total. The odds of town catching scum d1 are low. It's more likely we wagon scum then wagon someone else and end up lynching town. I won't be the day one lynch. Don't waste your time.

^Who wants to lynch this today?

[DVa]

Dva kokichi and DDL. I'd shoot them all today, with vig shots if I could.

"I would vig three people based on my reads"

I've read 5 of 30 pages total. The odds of town catching scum d1 are low. It's more likely we wagon scum then wagon someone else and end up lynching town. I won't be the day one lynch. Don't waste your time.

"I'm not actually reading shit"

like can you not remember your position on whether you're reading the thread over the course of 1 page?

[DVa]

So you're less certain on Tchill and strongly prefer BearAvi for today? Why do you feel more strongly on BearAvi Nako?

[DVa]

Gamma what do you think of Tyrion rn?

[DVa]

Was trying to decide whether to talk you into voting him with me or not

Not super excited to go back to BearAvi yet. Why is BearAvi a dope wagon?

[DVa]

@ Mew: curious about your first impressions on these six players as you're getting caught up:
BrightEyedFish / DrBearAvi / PenguinGifs / Almost50Monkeys / Sephiroth / Tyrion13

[DVa]

@OkaPoka:

Which of the following names would you say is 100% locktown: BrightEyedFish / DrBearAvi / PenguinGifs / Almost50Monkeys / Sephiroth / Tyrion13

[DVa]

PenguinPower: Lean town
Almost50: Lean scum
Sephiroth: Lean scum

like you to expand on these 3 when you can

[DVa]

What's up fam?

[DVa]

First impression reads can be quite useful, why wouldn't I? Not a lot of people are saying Penguin town and A50 scum so I'd like to hear what gave you that impression

[DVa]

I wasn't saying to stop reading the thread lol

You don't have to reply immediately, I just thought the way you structured your first impressions seemed interesting dude

You specifically said you had two strong reads and then three leans but you didn't say how much of the thread you got through so I wasn't sure if you were just going off RVS or what

I'm glad that you're more chatty than Neegan, and I'm not trying to get you all tilted, I just want to understand where your impressions are coming from

[DVa]

rxn to nako vote is bad

why?

[DVa]

Because you decided of all times, to stay in character at that moment?

to be clear, you are voting me because I used the word "fam"?

[DVa]

Why is BEF BES btw Oka? What's the S for?

[DVa]

Almost50 is starting to forget whether he's the alt or AP is

[DVa]

bit surprised he went right for the partner, didn't even try just "mason" with partner unspecified

l-2, no intent to hammer...

it does explain why he stopped trying tho

mixed feelings on it

[DVa]

On the one hand, I actually believe Kokichi less now than I did before *independently*. I glanced through at least one of his tpr games and he was not *nearly* as lynchbaity as he has been here.

On the other hand, I don't really know that I'm gonna buy Joey as scum, so if Joey does in fact confirm, then yeah.

tbh I really thought he was a VT baiting a NK, this is a lot harder for me to accept lol

[DVa]

What do you think Gamma?

[DVa]

some mini theme game where he was IC, it looked pretty diff

but yeah I don't really think I will buy joey scum here

[DVa]

Glancing through a few isos.

Gamma:
No pushing too hard, put spreading his pushes all around. I like it. Town-ish to me.

The read of Gamma doesn't actually make sense. Why is Gamma townish for not pushing hard and spreading his pushes around?

@A50, you at one point listed Sephiroth as your top townread. Are you still confident in that read and are you confident in your ability to sort Sephiroth?

[DVa]

@PP, in early game, you implied you've played with Tchill enough to have a sense of how he plays d1 as town. Do you still townread him? If so, can you explain your thought process on why, even though he is outside his town meta (if I understood your early game comments correctly) you nonetheless sort him as town here?

[DVa]

I think alts are for people who can't evolve their game lol.

Yeah I'm back to the usual d1. After PG 20 apathy is all I have for d1. I may change one day but not today.

k

[DVa]

just wondering whether he's relying on being read as lazy town because of an existing anti-town meta for d1 when elsewhere he indicated he was trying to play better

if not, then he's just kinda a hypocrite

[DVa]

@DrDoolittle, you played with Tchill in a normal game on day 1 right? Does this seem like it's within his range of apathy, because in the game you two were in he had hundreds of posts. So he certainly is capable of posting on d1, or at least that's how it looks to me

[DVa]

Posting can still mean apathetic?

yeah but he wasn't posting non-committal bs in the game I read, he was like pushing wagons and driving lynches and shit, but I imagine it's different reading him in iso vs being with him in the game

[DVa]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76996

[DVa]

Man I feel unclever but I cannot figure out who Beta is

[DVa]

Gamma why are you Beta?

I MUST UNDERSTAND THIS JOKE

[DVa]

It's late, Gamma-chan. Are you good with Gamma-chan?

@Mew, I don't know what to tell you, but I feel like people are either misremembering or simply lying about his meta and I want to understand why. I cannot find a towngame that looks like how he's playing here.

So the question for me then is: are people misrepresenting his meta because they actually don't remember what he looks like on d1, or are people trying to buddy him by giving him a pass despite playing like garbage? Or are people looking at some other game I didn't look at?

Because if people are willfully misrepresenting his meta (i.e. PP or DrD), then that would be scum indicative imo.

But it could be that they simply disagree, or think his meta really is different than it is.

All I know right now is that I am not seeing town games that look like this game for Tchill, so yeah, he's definitely very much on my radar rn

So I'm not sure Tchill is scum 100%, but I feel like the people casually misrepresenting his meta could be

[DVa]

VOTE: PP

[DVa]

O shit, penguingifs is transforming into penguinjpgs!

NOW WE HAVE SEEN HIS TRUE FORM

[DVa]

You mean the Tchill wagon?

[DVa]

A50 are you actually british?

[DVa]

Intent to

bloody

HAMMER.

the AP is slipping into you A50...

like I'm starting to imagine your posts on this account with a british accent.

[DVa]

Why isnt pp lynched yet?

Man if you're town I wish you'd town up because I do enjoy these gifs but you still seem pretty scummy

I would be interested in you casing BEF tho

[DVa]

@Mew why is Nako scummier than A50 to you rn? From the tone of your recent exchange with A50 I'm a little surprised you didn't vote him

[DVa]

Can't really sort Dva or okapoka. Between the two of them I feel slightly worse about dva based on our interaction when I came out of V/LA, it just seemed like a pointless thing to push me on especially once I admitted to not having caught up yet.

can you point me to which posts you're talking about here?

[DVa]

Fuck no I can't. I think you may know why. Let's not speak of this again...

I was wondering

btw your new avi is really cute!

[DVa]

wait can someone give me a tldr on why PP is scum other than too many gifs. I waded through pages and pages and realized I never got a case.

I believe the arguments include
"PP doesn't explain himself as town" i.e. this is not his town meta -- Kokichi
"PP is misrepresenting Tchill's meta" i.e. he might have been trying to buddy Tchill -- DVa
"PP is lolcatting as caught scum" i.e. he reacted poorly to the push by me and Kokichi -- Gamma-chan
"The day is too long" i.e. it was the leading wagon -- Tyrion
"PP is not me" i.e. he doesn't want to be the leading wagon anymore -- BEF

I think that summarizes everyone's reason for being on the wagon rn

[DVa]

I'm not so sure now. My top 2 scum reads are on my 3rd scum read's wagon. Maybe they are trying to help PP.
I don't know, but maybe a little L-1 can push us along further.

VOTE: PenguinPower

sorry, I was interpolating BEF's reasons, this is what he actually said

[DVa]

These last two reasons can literally move to any other wagon. So you are telling me PP only has 3 votes.

BEF might say he has a real reason but yeah, basically three votes that have discernible reasons

[DVa]

Do you still want to lynch PP, Dva?

Very good question lol, I've been thinking about this, especially cause I don't like 2 of the votes on the wagon

overall, I'd say... how do I put this... "I

don't not

want to lynch PP." ya, I feel like compared to Diffusion of Power, where he was in fact mislynched on day 1, he feels... very passive and not nearly as aggressive. even so, compared to Epic Duel, where he was NOT mislynched day 1, but was a leading candidate, it seems... a bit closer? ugh. really, he seems tonally different. a lot more willing to kinda talk through his reads.

He seems more reserved and, as Gamma-chan said, lolcatty.

You can compare:

If he is town, I think this is the closest analogue to his play here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

If he is scum, it is because we have not seen any of the combativeness or counter-push evident here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Between the two, I feel like he is dissimilar enough to both town games that my suspicions have not been abated and I believe he has decent scum equity.

There are other candidates.
>Tyrion is not really playing to his town meta imo, and if he is, then he should be lynched so he starts playing d1s again. I would accept a mislynch on a town Tyrion based on his play here, and I would be pissed if he was scum and we gave him a free pass.
>BEF is very much within his range as scum, his votes have seemed a bit survivalistic and opportunistic, and I think he is capable of deeper reasoning as town

So I guess right now I would prefer PP but I'm not really dead set on him. He seems like a solid wagon all things considered.

[DVa]

I have an idea for a 4-headed hydra with Sephiroth but I’d need two others to join

you do know you couldn't stop me from hydraing with you?

[DVa]

just fyi, tchill isn't voting BEF right now, so while I'm A-OK with BEF going through today, I would in fact like a claim before hammer.

So if someone wants to take him back to L-2 so tchill doesn't pull a not_mafia quickhammer that would be nice

[DVa]

nvm I missed PP changing to Gamma, he's still l-2

[DVa]

If post count ever correlated to player alignment, then Tchill flips scum here every time btw

I'm just not sure if that's a good metric, but I think the games DrD linked point heavily to Tchill scum for that as well as the engagement point Sephiroth observed as well

[DVa]

Should we make it a thing then Joey?

VOTE: Tchill13

@Gamma think there's a chance end of this day should be between Tchill and BEF? Or is PP still better?

[DVa]

Tchill is still one of my scum reads so I'll put my vote back on him.
VOTE: tchill

I mean, it's okay, you can in fact just write "Tchill is not me" LOL

[DVa]

K get lynched

[DVa]

To be clear, this is the town tchill that hates d1 -- posting 195 times and aggressively advocating a LAL policy?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Like, no. I believe you hate day 1. I don't believe that you TOTALLY disengage.

You want to not get lynched? You have exactly 0 minutes to aggressively push BEF as scum.

[DVa]

This is the least info we will have in the game. The more info we have. The harder I play. This is known site wide.

I literally just linked a game where as TPR you aggressively hunted lurkers and made them contribute content or risk getting lynched

No, this is not your meta, and it is not known site wide.

[DVa]

You better fucking hope you're scum because you're a permanent n1 vig target if this is your fucking town game

[DVa]

that was at tchill

[DVa]

What's the point of joining games that start on day 1 if you don't play day 1?

[DVa]

I'm a multi-tasking double doctor so Kokichi and Joey will both be safe tonight thankfully.

[DVa]

A50 thinks he earned a kill tonight

I'm definitely the nightkill here

[DVa]

so is that a vig shot and we had a doc save on a mason or are scum going for max wifom?

[DVa]

VOTE: DrD

who thinks this is the incorrect wagon rn?

[DVa]

not strongly opposed although I'm not sure the math is going to result in a perfect solve

[DVa]

You download the gif and reupload to imgur

then you link the gif from imgur

unless it is already hosted at imgur or a stable site, in which case you just link it

[DVa]

Because you are the Ultimate Supreme Leader, obviously. All part of your master plan.

Anyway why has no one supplied a reason for DrD being the incorrect wagon rn?

[DVa]

So just to quickly double check, the assumptions A50 requires for me to be scum
>BEF was the scum kill
>I thought BEF was TPR
>I was wrong on him being TPR
>I shaded him so he wouldn't be protected
>I then killed him over masons

Nice tinfoil, A50.

But, just fyi, you have explained why literally anyone would consider killing BEF here:
>He didn't think BEF would be protected

Your fallacy of the day is post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc. You think I was shading BEF to kill him. But it's much more likely that scum killed BEF because I shaded him.

Like, that's really all you need, so that you're doing such an elaborate case is pretty dumb. We don't even know if BEF was the scum kill lol. If BEF was the scum kill, there's no reason to think they didn't just want a guaranteed kill and were less concerned with the gamestate.

Beyond that, thinking that a three-man scum team even entertained the notion that I was a "double doctor" is beneath you as town, A50, so I don't know what you're doing there. I was not an option for the night kill because of the Tchill flip.

pedit: And I am not a roleblocker lol

[DVa]

However, at this point I realized that would not be good play by scum. It'd be the day before LyLo and unless already confirmed we'd have to lynch one of the Masons to confirm the other, and if they're not Masons that would be disasterous to them.

Yeah, not shooting masons n1 is fine. Like, your tinfoil that I would wifom about the masons in twilight is dumb. They don't start shooting masons yet, they want to hit some other tpr.

[DVa]

Like, you've explained why scum could plausibly have shot BEF over a vig, but none of what you have argued makes me a more likely choice than anyone else lol

[DVa]

I was blocked too. Not gonna claim my role though, but seeing this I am sure that's how she got the idea of "Double Action" because it is indeed in her role PM.

Like, do I need to vote you here? Because I know you've played enough games in New York to know that scum having a "double roleblocker" is basically impossible

That's mini theme shit

So what are you doing here A50?

[DVa]

If we're hypoclaiming

Investigative -- targeted BEF

Protective -- targeted Joey

Killing -- targeted BEF

Utility -- Targeted Gamma

[DVa]

Speaking of -- another reason scum might have killed BEF would be because he was a likely investigative target, and since they knew he was town, that would mean they would be playing around potential investigations, thus reducing the size of a mechanical townblock.

So again, I don't think you saying "I shaded him to kill him" makes sense as a scum case

Why are you doing reachy, wifom-heavy NKA case on me?

[DVa]

I guess hypoclaim is messy if two people are claiming roleblocked

@Nako, why would you want a hypoclaim if you have no result?

[DVa]

@Nako, why would you want a mass claim if you have no result?

ebwop, a mass claim, which doesn't make sense either

[DVa]

Skitter doesn't fuck around with pagetops, she is a ruthless pagetop hunter. They are her prey of choice

[DVa]

VCA only confirms what I already know which is that there's 2 scum in Sephiroth, Penguin, A50, and Mew

Thinking if we add in DrD we get 3 scum. Something about Penguin struck me as just a little bit townie when he was under pressure. Mixed feelings about A50's shitcase on me but I don't actually have a problem with a scumteam of DrD, Sephiroth + (something out of A50/Mew)

[DVa]

Actually DrD+Seph looks like 2/3 if we were go off VCA for d1 -- always separate except when they're both together on a wagon on town

[DVa]

VOTE COUNT 1.15 Link
BrightEyedFish (4) - Mewtaph, PenguinPower, OkaPoka, Almost50

This is one of the only wagons that had 4 people on it that is definitely on town, and you are town, so there's scum there. At least one, more likely two.

Sephiroth is the scummiest person on the EoD wagon

And my readslist already had Mew, PP, A50, Sephiroth, and DrD in my bottom 5 so

Two of them are town. I'm fine right now I'm fine with PP being one of the town. There's probably at least one town out of A50 and Mew

[DVa]

Now where did you get the double action idea from?

are you being intentionally dumb? this is the exact same joke claim I made in twilight in our last game together

[DVa]

VOTE: A50

You're accusing me of being an impossible role because I claimed a different impossible role as a joke

There is not a "double roleblocker" in this setup because there is never going to be a "double roleblocker" in a normal game, and I didn't even claim, or imply, roleblocker at all

Your case is ludicrous and frankly beneath you as town so I'm fine just giving you the benefit of the doubt and call you scum at this point if you're going to keep it up

I thought you were just shitcasing me as a reaction test at first but at this point you seem to seriously wants us to believe you believe the nonsense you are spewing

[DVa]

A50 and Nako both claim roleblocked, although neither has said their role (unless we are to believe A50's "gunsmith" hardclaim that he implied was just sarcasm)

[DVa]

Gamma, do you seriously believe A50, as town, would seriously entertain the notion there is a "double roleblocker" in a normal game?

How many fucking games does he have on this site?

[DVa]

It's not even a normal fucking modifier, it could only exist in a theme game, and I want to say A50 knows that since he has played about a billion games in normal queue

[DVa]

Why did you claim "double action" and how do you explain 2 players getting RB'd on the same night, hinting there's a "double action" RB. Not just any two, the two that were TRing each other the most, and seemed to be working together, thus the source of the RB is very likely to be the same.

Not really sure about A50

You and Nako were not the people townreading each other the most; Nako spent most of the day being confused by you

You also were not really clearly working with Nako for most of the day so I don't get why you have that impression

[DVa]

I'll take any comparison of my scumgame to MariaR's scumgame as a compliment though, thank you, even though, frankly, that's an insult to Maria's scumgame

[DVa]

I would like a flip between DrD and sephiroth, what do you guys thinks ?

Right now, I think A50 has to finish his tantrum with me before we can lynch scum

[DVa]

If I'm anything but watcher, I visited BEF and they came up as VT/Town member/nothing yet.

If I'm watcher, I was blocked.

Nako didn't even hardclaim blocked, she presented it as one of two options

And if she a) is watcher, and b) you both targeted Mew, and c) he was ascetic, then there doesn't even have to be a roleblocker in the game at all

[DVa]

Now you are finally asking a real question

So you a) assumed that Nako was roleblocked, because that is implicit in your accusation against me
but b) don't believe she's watcher, because you don't understand her choice of target

so which fucking is it A50? and why are you only questioning your interpretation of her claim now?

[DVa]

Nako, if you were Watcher, who did you *try* to target? You can't know you were roleblocked, you could be roleblocked or you targeted an ascetic

[DVa]

Why did you believe she was the watcher? Why didn't you believe she just visited BEF and got an inno on the dead?

[DVa]

Why assume two roleblockers and not two separate ascetics? Or one ascetic and an unusual watcher choice?

[DVa]

Why am I stupid because you made about 20 different asinine assumptions and critically evaluated 0 of them?

[DVa]

Yes, but she also asked for a massclaim with *no result* which doesn't make any sense either

[DVa]

OK, well, let's see what Mew says since you targeted him, but at this point it might be better if she said whether she targeted Mew before Mew claims

[DVa]

But holy shit A50, if you took two confusing results and came up with DOUBLE FUCKING ROLEBLOCKER out of that, as town, then you are way out of your element right now

[DVa]

It does if she was blocked. She wants to see if a) her target would claim Ascetic/Hider/Commuter, or b) Someone claims RB/JK and then claim they targeted her.

also outs the entire power structure of the town at the risk that you just confirm someone is ascetic, which isn't even alignment indicative

[DVa]

I wasn't even tunneling you, you just started shitcasing me for some incredibly convoluted reasons *and kept at it even after I explained why your argument made no sense*

And your response to me explaining why you had made a lot of hasty assumptions was to hardclaim strong investigative with no results

OK

[DVa]

Dude when is the last time you saw a cop in a 13p normal

If you are town-aligned, gunsmith is almost without doubt the strongest investigative we have in this setup

You basically just hardclaimed cop on d2 with no guilty

[DVa]

VOTE: Seph

[DVa]

My wallpost in 1247 hasn't fundamentally changed but I did find this post he made in response

So it's either BFE or Gamma.

slightly townie at the time, although only enough to move him up two or three ticks in my list

[DVa]

Gamma's engagement back at pages 24-26 seemed strongly indicative of a town-Gamma thought process at the time. I've generally felt like I understood his reads and he hasn't been pinging me. His cases don't feel reachy. Still pretty happy with a townread there right now.

pedit: seems A50 can agree with me on something after all

[DVa]

I didn't say Penguin town, I said he made a slightly townie post. That moves him up into null, over scumread where he was before.

[DVa]

why would scum sephiroth abandon a PP wagon at L1?

He had a two page 1v1 with A50? Like scum can't just ignore what is going on with other people in the game

[DVa]

Spoiler:

So the four possibilities you're thinking about:
1. PP + Seph both scum -- unloading makes sense
2. PP scum, seph town -- unloading makes sense, possible scenario
3. PP town, Seph scum -- doesn't make sense to you, so you think if Seph is scum, he'd have to be scum with PP
4. PP town, seph town -- unloading makes sense, possible scenario

I can understand your logic but I'm not sure I agree with what I'm taking to be your read of scenario 3. Seph could also unload off a PP town wagon if he wanted to not be blamed for being on a mislynch. The PP wagon was also a bit stagnant and no one was declaring intent, so he could have unloaded simply because he didn't think it was really going to go through. Or he could have unloaded because he thought PP was a TPR and would omgus people on his wagon. Or he might have thought it was necessary to maintain the appearance of a town thought process.

So while I see your point I'm not sure you're considering the full range of reasons scum would offload off a town wagon at L-1.

pedit: this seems irrelevant now but I wrote it so whatever, I'm posting it

[DVa]

Dear god A50 you stole skitter's pagetop

Be fearful of her wrath

[DVa]

OK Nako

Maybe we should do massclaim, who agrees?

You asked for a massclaim

If I'm anything but watcher, I visited BEF and they came up as VT/Town member/nothing yet.

If I'm watcher, I was blocked.

You accepted a hypoclaim and then basically claimed watcher, insisted you were roleblocked and gave no target that would imply you'd even thought about ascetic

Yeah It's most likely DVa if that's the case.

You helped push A50's tinfoil tunnel on me. This one really bothers me, because of 1637. If this is your reaction in 1637, why was your response here not:
"Don't rolefish me, A50"
or
"Don't make assumptions about which of my hypoclaims was real"

Nice rolefish, DVa.

And now, *after asking for a massclaim* and pushing A50's tinfoil, you're going to accuse me of rolefishing? You're the one that wanted a massclaim, Nako.


I liked Nako's d1 play but her progression this dayphase has left me baffled.

[DVa]

i also don't see the point in hypo-claiming.

thinking about whether town Dr.D ever makes this post. The point of hypoclaiming is to protect town power roles that want to out results. BUT, it usually only makes sense if anyone has either a hard inno or a guilty. It's also a complicated process in a closed setup when so many roles can be weird or heavily gated.

So yeah, right now, it is an open question. But I find it weird that you and Mew's "MeToo" are just kind of casually shading it

especially when the apparent appeal (of trying to draw scum fire away from a potential vig or protecting... a gunsmith claim, for instance) should be obvious. It would make more sense if you said "now that A50 has hardclaimed, it's pointless"

[DVa]

My updated scum pool from D1 is:
{Oka, A50, DVa} and Nako as a faraway pick

this flips scum every time

VOTE: Mew

Joey, Mew is now the best lynch, both mechanically and through PoE.

-If he flips scum ascetic, we basically confirm A50 as a real TPR
-If he flips town ascetic, we still confirm A50 as a real PR, although his alignment is less certain
-If he doesn't flip ascetic, we confirm scum roleblocker/or A50 is lying

Also, at this point, Nako refusing to confirm she targeted Mew is weird. If she confirmed she was watching Mew, that would confirm him as ascetic. It would also raise the question of WHY Nako was watching Mew, which frankly seems suspicious to me at this point.

It's also unlikely to me that town has watcher+gunsmith+2 masons so I feel like we already have a surprising amount of power. Mew's predecessor was scummy, Nako has been weird today around claims, I feel like one of your townreads on one of these two slots is probably wrong.

[DVa]

All three people in his PoE are town and his comment about Nako being a "faraway pick" is scummy af

[DVa]

Am I flipping scum every time?

Probably, I mean I was just voting you.

And I sure as hell think there is scum within {Mew, Sephiroth}.

[DVa]

nto an easy pocket

Get the fuck out

This gets lynched today

[DVa]

Your reaction to A50's play this day feels fake af, your reads list is open wolfing, and you seem more like desperate scum than town rn

You wanna keep casing Oka go for it

but if you were town you'd probably be saying something about Nako that made sense

[DVa]

You also would have either confirmed or denied being ascetic by now but you're pretty clearly stalling on that for reasons that cannot possibly be town motivated

[DVa]

Also Dva if you're gonna be willing to lynch someone because their scum reads are your town reads you better feel pretty strongly about those townreads and you better have an explanation for them being town. Why are those scum reads actually town?

First, you are ignoring half my case. Mew is scum over you because of of what I observed in 1728. Both Nako and Mew responded in very odd ways to the heated discussion between myself and A50. Nako's passive acceptance of A50's tinfoil and Mew refusing to confirm or deny being ascetic both really bother me. Between the two I would still say Nako is more likely to be town. But I did not like either of their reactions, and I don't like the way Nako softed her role. Right now I find it more plausible that Nako made a weird watcher choice and that Mew is a scum ascetic, but I don't know wtf is going on in Nako's mind right now. Frankly I still don't know why she proposed a massclaim. For Mew, I feel like simply letting A50 spin his tinfoil about a roleblocker seems like exactly the thing a scum ascetic would do in response to a no result from an investigative. Mew's choices here seem malicious, Nako's choices seem baffling. Town Mew would have stepped in and said, no, "I'm ascetic" or "I'm not ascetic", as soon as I even raised that prospect.

Now, A50's mental development in regard to me is... pretty consistent with him. Generally when A50 is scum he tends to just kind of try to keep me at arms length. Town A50 generally at some point will melt down and have a personality conflict with me. At least, on this account (on my main I thought we were at least sociable, but we also didn't interact that much tbh). Our fight today wasn't surprising, just disappointing. But the development of his read on me over today was very, very townie, and his level of tilt at our exchange was pretty consistent with town A50. I would be shocked if A50 is scum this game.

Oka has been a gut townread for me this entire game because of his engagement and activity, which generally strikes me as sincere. While he is a tryhard, and is definitely capable of powerscumming, but I feel like there's a noticeable difference in tone between his scum and his town games.
Here's a very significant case study in scum Oka: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

If you feel like there are significant tonal similarities to Oka in that game to Oka here, I'd be welcome to hearing them, but when I contrast the two, I feel like Oka ends up flipping town here. I'm not 100% certain on this read but I'd lynch Mew over Oka any day of the week rn.