micro 833: a coalition (D O N E)

[DVa]

Hey fam!



Gamma, are you scum? Tell the truth -- or else!

[DVa]

dva why did you single gamma out

I'm stalking him

[DVa]

Overreaction spotted
VOTE: YurikoJasmine

Gamma would you like to dance?

[DVa]

I have a foolproof plan everyone.
Scum is either the first 2 people to join the game or the last 2. Meaning the scum team is either northsidegal & the dark wanderer or DVa and skitter30.
With this information we can immediately townbloc everyone in the middle for autowin.
HEAL: Raya36
HEAL: Musicjax
HEAL: TesXX
HEAL: YurikaJasmine
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
VOTE: skitter30

the age old question, does chummy=scummy?

[DVa]

why do you think dva was awkward?

are you a new player?

having a hard time following your thought process here skitter, why would thinking my first post was awkward make him new?

[DVa]

{nsg}
{GE, TDW}
{Raya, Musicjax, skitter}
{TesXX, Yuriko, DVa}

obviously wrong on me but I'm inclined to townread a page2 readslist based on rvs personally

[DVa]

HEAL: Yuriko

hmm

[DVa]

This is an incredibly wolfy post

HEAL: The Dark Wanderer

dva are you an alt?

Yes, now please never talk about this again

[DVa]

HURT: gamma
HEAL: tesxx

You're still town but you're wrong on Gamma and possibly wrong on tes too

[DVa]

<3 <3 <3

HEAL: DVa
Gamma Emerald

[DVa]

Oh freak someone might use this chain of humorous posting to scumread me later.

o/t --

Spoiler:

leon?

[DVa]

Ohhhh damn I was wrong on his main

Now that I know he's invisibility tho I think this... might... be a little bit more in his towngame tho?

idk has anyone else played with invis before?

[DVa]

@DVa, how did you miss this exchange?

I've been preoccupied with another game finishing in lylo where I was flipping a read and doing extensive meta dives, so yeah, oops

[DVa]

HEAL: probs a robot

Invis was a little less active than I've seen him on what I think was one of his other alts, but he still seemed townie overall, and robot is... yeah

[DVa]

I'm DVa, fam, of course I'm friendly with MEKA! :3

[DVa]

RVS performance was very poor.

my first post or what all are you counting as part of RVS here?

[DVa]

perhaps it's a little basic / level-0 thinking to say this and it's not actually the sort of thing that's reliably partner-indicative, but that's the instinctual feeling i get looking at it

tbh the way I present my townreads bothers a lot of people, I don't like to overexplain them, often overemphasize them, and sometimes, every now and then, I'm even wrong

but robot does seem pretty townie here so far and I kinda don't get the sense you are scumreading robot so...?

[DVa]

This is probably the first point where I liked something you posted.

so, to be clear, it bothers you a little bit that it took me 20 minutes of actually playing the game to say something you liked?

high standards mr robot

[DVa]

Would you be able to talk about some other reads, please DVa?
What else is on your mind?

who you wanna know about?

[DVa]

I feel like taking a quick gut reaction to Yuriko, rather than something more calculated, felt pretty townie for him. Also, how do I say this... I feel like he wouldn't have accepted the dance so quickly if he was scum. That's hard to explain since it's a joke about mechanics from another game, but basically I feel like he's a lot more cautious as scum, and he doesn't feel cautious to me here, he feels very natural

[DVa]

What do you think of NSG right now?

[DVa]

pedit: For what it is worth, I believe that questions with a finely-veiled agenda are town indicative.
Nonsensical questions which never go anywhere are scum indicative.
If I am reading your lines of enquiry correctly, I believe you are town.

I know you said this but I guess I wanted to make sure I understood why you were townreading her for this:

i wonder, do robots dream of fluffy electric sheep?

what do you think?

which is what you're commenting on right?

[DVa]

What is your experience with Gamma Emerald? Is this informed by experience or merely a reactionary gut feeling?

Gamma is the person I've played the most with. I joined this game when I saw he had joined

I got a good feeling for his play in Dolphins and correctly sorted him in RVS in Boundaries of Reality and I've felt pretty confident in my ability to sort him quickly since.

[DVa]

i think that objectively it's too early to townread robot right now and i think that if you do townread him then your standards for a townread would be so low as to be townreading almost all of the playerlist or your standards would be so low that you would be pockted by scum in nearly every game you play (which i don't think is the case for you as town, hence my suspicion)

here you also seem to indicate that most of the reason for your heal on the slot comes from robot, but in 141 when you healed him it seems like you were going more off of invisibility / musicjax. which is it?

both.

I was townreading invisibility, and I was townreading robot. Robot came in very aggressively sorting which seems pretty town indicative, and the paranoid self-criticism is something I've seen from Invisibility as town.

That being said, my townreads sometimes are wrong and I do re-evaluate. But I feel like my first impression of robot was quite positive. I was very aggressively pocketed by scum in my most recent completed game, but I also managed to flip my read and win at the end. So I am aware of the risks of townreading people, but I also like to see how people react to my townreads.

Honestly I think your skepticism here is great, and it makes me want to townread you

[DVa]

This is the post I was referring to most directly.

and you feel like nsg is exhibiting the stated behavior? I do think that post is pretty townie but not for the reason you seem to, so that's interesting

[DVa]

Do you think that if I replaced into a scum slot, I would enter the thread any differently?

I do. I don't mean your meme opening posts, I mean your sorting posts afterward, particularly your aggressive tone

You might come in as scum trying to sort, but I would be pretty surprised if you wrote the posts the way that you did

[DVa]

Agree to disagree. I find your reasoning lazy and premature.

I would be pretty surprised to see this post in iso 9 from scum

I mean, maybe. It's not impossible, but it would surprise me

[DVa]

rn I don't need to sort everyone

rn, I need to answer one question

if we coalition out of:
DVa
Gamma Emerald
The Dark Wanderer
NorthsideGal
probs not robot

do we win this game before page 20?

because I think we do, even if there are some reads that probably need to be solidified. Right now my reads are based on tone, but frankly, I feel like tonal reads are how this game is won on d1

[DVa]

I wasn't saying I wasn't sorting the coalition, I was saying top priority is a 5-man townblock for me. I feel like townblocking is a lot more fun than scumhunting personally (other reason I joined this game), and also more important in this setup. This whole setup is a townblocking challenge.

TDW's reaction to Tes seemed both succinct and analytical, but also seemed willing to adjust his read as posts developed. I feel like his suspicion of Gamma's reaction and posts felt like a reasonable reaction, even if I disagreed, and I liked him sorting NSG as town quickly. I feel like he's not trying to pocket me and I feel like where our reads are different, I understand why our reads are different.

[DVa]

Personally I feel like I will have a harder time sorting Raya, Tes, Yuriko, and Skitter, even if rn I feel like there's a solid chance both scum are in those four, partly because of how you, nsg, tdw, and gamma have all reacted to me in different ways. I actually feel more strongly in NSG town even though I feel like she's skeptical of me but that's partly why I want her in my coalition, if that makes sense

Maybe I've been playing with RC too much LOL

[DVa]

this might be vizzy's scumgame actually
i don't claim to be super great at reading him or anything but as town he tries to contribute and like ... be helpful even while he shitposts and i've not really gotten that vibe from like any of his posts thus far

Cool, are there specific examples you're thinking of?

[DVa]

why do you think this resembled his towngame?

Feel like I already mentioned this but the self-paranoia and skepticism about his own posting style, but if you can show he does that as scum too I'm interested.

Do you think robot is scummy so far?

[DVa]

i don't feel like they've done much ai at this point, although i am enjoying the gimmick alt

I guess you ask questions as you go through even if those questions have already been addressed later?

It kinda makes it hard to tell which questions are actually important to you or if you're just asking questions for the sake of asking questions tbh

[DVa]

Well if there's one people to get people to open up it's to say what you think and have them disagree.

So your main thought on vizzy is that he was lurky and unproductive here, and that this matches his scum game

I'll check out pick your poison tomorrow and think about any similarities. I guess I also thought he was totally siteflaking even though I think maybe he stayed in one game? So that's confusing too

Who would you replace robot/vizzy with?

[DVa]

Who would you put in the winning coalition over robot?

[DVa]

well atm I'm kinda skeptical about some of your posts. but tell me why you would add tess and yuriko then? what posts from them are strongest for you?

[DVa]

like you're telling me that you're sketpical of some of my posts but your followup question indicates that you aren't actually reading them since i explained both already

VOTE: Skitter

No, you have explained your read of NSG, your interactions with Tes and Yuriko are mostly questions or asking other people about them. You say you townread them but saying that you've clearly explained why, and then accusing me of not reading your posts because I haven't really seen much in the way of accusation, seems pretty scummy

[DVa]

However, I can't currently townread either skitter, or DVa

well you're halfway there

[DVa]

I am not sure if this feeling of discomfort is consistent with watching two members of the mafia interact with one another.
However, I can't currently townread either skitter, or DVa

is this because skitter scumread your predecessor on meta and I asked for evidence rather than disagreeing?

[DVa]

This is a contributory factor. Is this the sole reason you scumread her?

no, actually her scumcasing vizzy was good, I scumread her for everything but that

it just seems a little shady for you to shade us both simply because skitter cased your predecessor, while making it seem like it's based on our other interactions

HURT: robot

[DVa]

everyone on this list has at least one strong reason for me to read them town and in terms of thinking through who i would be wrong on i cant really think of anyone. maybe yuriko i guess.

expand here please

[DVa]

Ouch! Perhaps robots and humans are not meant to be friends.

we can be friends even if you're scum

[DVa]

You accuse me of not seeing a strong explanation of your coalition when you said they were "kinda townie" in a way that was also possibly "lynchbait-y"?

You made it seem like there was a stronger towncase than that

[DVa]

which psots of mine do are you skeptical of?

I'm skeptical of posts where you have a long wallpost that gives the impression of some thought or structure but then include questions that are answered already, it makes it seem like you're deliberately making really long posts without really investigating what's going on in the thread and staying very surface level with some of your most direct questions

[DVa]

who would be willing to support a coalition that didn't contain themselves in it?

I would not frankly

[DVa]

why do you like gamma?

yeah posts like this are why I'm skeptical of you

[DVa]

if i strongly townread them i'd be healing them rn
i don't so i'm not

yeah I asked for a name you would sub in for a game-winning coalition and you gave me two names that you aren't even healing and then are surprised when I ask you to expand on them

so yeah, a lot of what you're doing rn seems reachy

[DVa]

you clearly haven't played with me before

I wanna say I saw an argument fairly similar to this in the last game where a scum was trying to rationalize irrational choices

[DVa]

i asked about gamma because i'm interested in hearing why robot likes gamma

you didn't pedit an @robot then?

I was the previous poster

[DVa]

DVa is incredibly wolfy

I love it when you talk like this

winky face

really though, which posts are wolfy?

[DVa]

you posted just before me
i didn't see your post beore i submitted it; it was directed to robot if that wasn't clear

I mean, you're probably telling the truth
but part of me almost is like, are you lying and you just didn't want to admit you didn't see my last response on this exact question

I believe you but it would have helped if you had done a pedit there, because it was not contextually obvious

[DVa]

Posting style when I strip away the robotic quirks.

this was my first impression too but what do you think of his shade when skitter calls him out?

[DVa]

On the read I think his association read is not that good but I don’t see why it’s scummy

the whole thing we're doing is pressing people on the strength of their townreads. skitter scumcasing his predecessor is a good chance for him to directly address the accusations against him, and instead he just shades it.

idk, maybe you're right and he's a lot lazier than I thought he'd be given the aggressive tone of his earlier post. but I would have thought he'd see the skitter case as an opportunity, not a threat

[DVa]

Here's what I want probs

If you are town, I want you in my townblocked coalition for game win

but that is not going to happen unless you are town enough that skitter retracts her case

because I kinda think skitter is more likely to be scum here than you, but your defensiveness on this point has significantly weakened my initial read

I want you to towncase vizzy and make skitter accept you in the townblock even if she's scum. That is my ideal in every game as town. For scum to accept that the town is townier.

[DVa]

Good bot

I am liking 275 so far but I'd like to see what people other than skitter think

[DVa]

is "because i think he's scum" answer enough

is this based on robot or vizzy?

what was wrong with robot's towncase on vizzy?

[DVa]

the fact that he made a token show of calling you scum then 180ed the read because of really sketchy reasons and now you're trying to argue that he should be in the coalition

Am I currently arguing that? And did he 180 calling me scum? I thought he implied he lightly townread me and then shifted me to null, and then shifted me back to light townlean. But that was my impression, I don't think he mapped it out quite that clearly.

My last post said I liked his meta case on Vizzy, because I do. I haven't invited him back to my coalition yet, although I was thinking about it. Do you dislike his actual evidence there?

[DVa]

Maybe Robots and Dark Wanderers cannot be friends.

to be clear, it is this dynamic that makes me want both of you in my coalition.

I feel like you two are legitimately trying to sort each other, and struggling to do so. I feel like that is hard to fake except for very strong scum and I don't think s/s theater ever reads like this

Robot's shade in response to my discussion with skitter really pinged me, but "I am starting to re-evaluate that"

Man it is weird being talked about like that, makes me self conscious of my reads lol. I already get accused frequently of committing to early reads too hard in almost game, and for the record, I am second-guessing myself a lot more here because of the results of 2040 (my top two townreads were both scum, even though I won the game by flipping my read on one in the end)

That was a very exhausting game and I really did not want to meta dive people at the start of day 1 here, so I guess I came off as kinda lazy in regard to vizzy's slot when I asked other people about his meta. But I did also want to see if other people had other familiarity with his meta and I thought skitter's case was engaging, and I think the conversation that emerged out of that was productive.

I'm also not at a point right now where I'm re-evaluating some of my key slots. TDW seems really clearly town, and I think his skepticism of my play seems very natural. I at this point wish Gamma had a bit more presence so my read there could solidify, but that's not the same thing as me reconsidering my read. Right now I think I'm back to {DVa, Gamma, Robot, TDW, NSG} as very likely to be a game-winning solve for coalition, but I also recognize Gamma needs to get in here more if that is going to convince the rest of that block. I feel like Robot, TDW, and NSG are not trying to particularly buddy each other or me, and I am hoping Gamma will 'show up' in time

I've liked Raya's posts on the past two pages, even if they are highly critical of me. But I'm not sure how much that helps me when it seems half the town doesn't like my choice of Gamma and the other half doesn't like robot. I'm still having a hard time moving Yuriko, Tes, and Skitter above the scummy side of null.

[DVa]

There's not a lot of content to work with on them and what's there isn't really impressive? I find it surprising how easily some people have thrown heals to Yuriko and Tes considering they don't seem to mention strong familiarity with their metas and there's not really enough content to see a town thought process yet. It is still relatively early game and considering the town sweep last time this game setup was run, I would be surprised if both scum were lurking again, but not being present doesn't make me townread them.

[DVa]

Approaching this game with an unusual posting style and gimmick means I'm unlikely to be townread.

I think most people have seen enough gimmicks on this site that this seems like a surprising expectation... fam

[DVa]

Who is good enough to be in our coalition?

[DVa]

Why am I scum?

[DVa]

to DVa: I am sorry if I am wrong on you but I get tone pings from the way that you engage with the game constantly and I feel like I would see you as villa if you were villa.

OK, well, I forgive you. I'd like you to flip your read although I'm not exactly sure how to do that. I'm still feeling pretty strongly you're town but I might need to reassess how I'm approaching this game if you're right.

I have been pretty preoccupied with The Witches Ball. Obviously my framing here is going to be biased, but I encourage you to read my iso there and see if I toneping you there as well.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I do have two completed scum games on site -- Dolphins and Newbie 1893, so if you need a scum game for comparison those are available.

That might help me understand if your scumread of me is based on a playstyle clash or whether there's something else.

[DVa]

I've been trying to decide what else I can discuss from Witches Ball since it's making me reevaluate my play here somewhat. Basically, it was sorta similar in being a coalition style win (the goal of the game was the find two "locktown" people and then have them as a final pairing). In that game I incorrectly scumread Gamma, but correctly townread [an alt of a player in this game which affected my read of that player here--I'm not sure if it's rude to out this alt rn tho]. I'm not sure that means I want to reevaluate my townread of Gamma here, but I do think I need to review my notes and make sure my reasons for townreading him are solid.

That game also might help you understand why I am pushing so hard for people who are suspicious of me to be in my townblock. 2/3 of the scumteam there tried to hard buddy me, and in fact House's attempt to pocket me in the PT was basically the failed key to the scum wincon. So I guess I'm in a mindset right now that when people find me a bit suspicious for reasons that seem natural, it makes me feel like they're more likely town than scum lol

I will say I was only 3/5 of my RVS reads there so I'm going to take some time either tonight or tomorrow to make sure I feel good about those. I think I need some more time interacting with Gamma and NSG to shore those up.

In the mean time I guess I need to understand your reasoning for putting Tes in the coalition. Even after being wrong in Witches Ball, I still think I stay on Gamma over Tes personally, but I'm open to your thoughts there. And Gamma does need to 'show up' here if he wants to be in the coalition so maybe we need to push both for more content.

[DVa]

@mod has tes been prodded?

[DVa]

Feeling a little bit better about NSG now that she's shown up again. I liked her before but her absence was starting to concern me.

Gamma I still feel is town, but at this point I feel like he's not really putting in any more thought to this game than he did when he was scum, so I don't know how to get people to flip their read of him.

I feel like my read of Robot has gone back and forth on the dial several times, and I feel like his read on me is very weak as well. I want to say most of the time this has been the case for me in the past the person has ended up flipping town. Usually if I have doubts, the person is town. Usually if I am wrong, I am either all wrong, and if I am right, I am all right. But that doesn't actually shake my concerns with the wibbly wobbliness of his read on me.

I feel like I need to change my approach this game but I'm not exactly sure how, I feel like my reads for my coalition are probably right, but with some of my townreads checking in and checking out and the people I suspect being largely absent I feel like I don't have the material to actually help build consensus.

I don't know what to do here tbh

[DVa]

What's WIM mean again?

[DVa]

dear god

[DVa]

85: How is that being chummy?
87: Okay I went along with earlier, but why ask that at that point?

Are you sure you meant 87 here btw Gamma? Cause I don't get your question on that

24 seemed a bit chummy cause he was healing 5 people for kinda jokey reasons

[DVa]

Would talking with me help NSG?

pedit: he swapped after skitter asked why he was voting with her for some reason, idk

[DVa]

Tricky question, but while I did have one good win as scum in newbie queue, I feel like people give me a bit too much credit for that. I replaced into a townread slot with a townread partner and still managed to make the win harder than it needed to be probably. I feel like it's really hard for me to be 'chatty' as scum, unless I'm talking to my partner. I tend to want to over-think posts most of the time and have a hard time being natural. I think my natural posting style pings some people. But it is hard to be objective with a self-meta.

Why would you say this is your town game rather than your scum game?
pedit: will respond to those in a second

[DVa]

what do you think of not_mafia / tesxx?

I didn't really get why people were giving Tes Heals, his posts didn't seem townie to me, and Not_Mafia hasn't done anything to change that so far. I'm also trying not to be biased toward N_M considering we just finished a game where I spent half the game incorrectly scumreading him, but unless he actually does anything pro-town to show his thought process I don't see why anyone would heal him tbh

[DVa]

because from what i've read you seem like you sort of start games swinging when it comes to reads, so even if you say that you were spending a lot of time in witches' ball, to see what looks to me like you being a bit more passive in terms of coming up with reads this game sort of points towards you being scum.

Well, in Witches Ball I really needed *a partner* because I trusted myself to play well at the end of the dance. My worst fear as an alt among a bunch of regulars who play with each other a lot was getting tossed in pre-dance. That ended up not being the way things went but I was unusually aggressive with reads there.

Also, I am coming off Mini Normal 2040, where while I was aggressive with reads, I was *very wrong* on day 1 with two key reads. So I am actually trying to think through my reads for players I'm unfamiliar with a bit more and also trying to figure out how to deal with players who can play around me. Like I had two games end, both of which kinda made me second guess certain parts of my playstyle, so I guess maybe I am struggling to think of how to improve my play.

[DVa]

i had just started thinking about that after asking you, actually! i'm not sure how much i can actually say this game is really distinct, but i think i've probably displayed a lot more depth of thought than in any scumgame i've played before, where i was probably mostly just making things up and espousing random theories. i can say that if i had rolled scum this game, as a strategy i probably would've gone for a lot more mindless posting and chatting just to try to inflate my postcount and get townread just through presence in the thread rather than through having good thoughts

well I guess I understand why you're skeptical of me if you think my chattiness is how you'd play scum. but I mean, I don't know what to do then. I do want you in my coalition

[DVa]

^^^ i kinda think that this is what you've been doing this game

not sure I follow, so nsg doesn't townread me because I'm too chatty, and you don't townread me because I'm not chatty enough?

[DVa]

I meant 87
I don’t really see how I was towny enough for that there, unless that’s not what that thing meant.

87 is my first impression of NSG's readslist? You sure you don't mean 84 where I ask you to dance?

[DVa]

[DVa]

This game has been boring, you're right though, so I guess that does fuck up my normal play

Yuriko has fewer posts than Music even tho Music replaced out 8 days ago
Gamma hasn't really been here (and he's why I even joined this game)
Tes/N_M have given no opportunity for me to decide if Tes's early posts were enough to solidify to a scumread
I've been struggling to decide if you're scum or if your posting style is nuking my read
and in the mean time I had two very dramatic lylos to deal with (witches ball and the mini normal)

so yeah.. tbh I've thought about replacing out of this game since it just hasn't really felt like it's come together yet.

[DVa]

that was @skitter

[DVa]

well I asked if you wanted to talk NSG, lol, I kinda have been leaning town but you've been the person I've been most wondering if I should lock down as part of my coalition, but you haven't really been here. I think this is the first time in several days we've really been online at the same time?

[DVa]

Like I get you're worried about being pocketed but I need to understand you lol

[DVa]

suddenly Gamma and NSG are online at the same time this is chaos lol one sec

[DVa]

Gamma:

Thank god the game finally started
Also thank god I’m Town
Unfortunately I have a less well-known table to work with (though not by much of a margin I think, just by 1 parson)
But I also have less confidence in my ability to read this table

Overreaction spotted
VOTE: YurikoJasmine

This last post, idk it's what I was waiting to see show up in Witches Ball

It seemed like you were engaged early here in a way I just haven't seen in your scum games I've read

Do you think you get into it early like this as scum?

[DVa]

what do you want to discuss?

why I should heal you

lol it's hard when you keep saying you don't want me in your coalition, but that's kinda why I want you in my coalition. I really feel like you aren't trying to pocket me but I also feel like your skepticism feels natural from a town POV. Like I feel pretty good about your slot, and I liked your self-meta earlier. But if you just refuse to be in my coalition I'm at a loss of what to do now

[DVa]

There's plenty of other scummier people in the game, like at this point I want an actual coalition, not a theoretical coalition

but ok

HEAL: NSG

[DVa]

why are you bringing up pocketing here?

in both of my last two completed games, the scum win condition was pocketing me. (they lost both times but it felt closer than it should have both times)

[DVa]

Also how much exp do you have with me on your main

We've had some games together. I don't want to spoil the surprise tho

I do have experience with your scum game if that's what you're wondering

[DVa]

do you think that's the scum wincon for this game?

(ie are you saying that you think that scum would be trying to pocket you here and that nsg is townie for not doing so?)

I thought so for most of this game, now I'm not sure anymore, I'm doubting a lot of stuff rn

It is possible that one of the scum is trying to simply discredit me

It would be presumptuous to assume one tries to pocket, the other tries to shade, but it's possible. That would seem to fit the scum meta strategy some others were discussing earlier

[DVa]

dva what do you think about the way gamma is approaching this game (ie the intensive reading of every post etc)?

I think Gamma flips a coin on whether he does that or not, the choice of reading posts is NAI, what matters is the content and thought it generates. He has skipped hundreds of pages as town and done detailed reactions as scum, and he has done detailed analysis as town and basically afk'd as scum. The most important thing in sorting Gamma is feeling like his reactions are genuine.

[DVa]

So which have you read?

Of your scum games, Children of Hurin, Mini 2023, Micro 829 (the prequel to this), and NY 213.

Town games, I've read Minis 2030 and 2027 and we've played in Witches Ball, Dolphins, and Boundaries of Reality.

[DVa]

pocket you in particular or pocket townies in general?

Pocketing townies in general seems like the basic definition of scum play, but I would say scum target me in particular because I tend to have presence. Or at least that's what 2040 made me feel.

i kinda feel like he's using it as a way to kinda like avoid interacting seriously in real time

Yeah that's why you gotta actually talk to him about the content in real time. Like he makes the post full of questions and then almost no one actually responds. I do think it would help if he did @tags for each question because I think some people might miss them

[DVa]

you're kinda assuming that scum knows you?

No, one of the scum that tried to pocket me in that last game had never played with me before, and the other did not explicitly tell him to try to pocket me either, that was just how they played

and shortaru did not know me either, and he didn't know radiantcowbells, but scum wincon was letting the other two scum distance him and then have him try to hard pocket RC and then eventually try to buddy me

scum try to hard pocket me based on the early game phase, not because of existing meta is what I'm saying here.

[DVa]

and do you think scum would be trying to pocket you in this game based on your early play?

don't know anymore tbh

do you think scum are trying to pocket you?

[DVa]

So you're through like ~200 Gamma in your reread analysis?

[DVa]

Gamma at some point we need to talk about Yuriko I think, do you think she is in a game-winning day 1 coalition?

[DVa]

tbh I kinda feel like Gamma is like a replace-in a this point, replacing Gamma, who had to replace out because he got caught up in Fire Emblem

[DVa]

skitter are you being serious when you believe that he is an invisibility alt cause I'm really confused rn

I was like 98% sure that was a joke

or are you referring to who you really think he is in his self-meta?

[DVa]

Like, I would have to see Vizzy confirm robot is Vizzy, because rn I thought it was so absurd as to be a joke

[DVa]

0% chance of skitter/robot scumteam

[DVa]

? you think robot pranks skitter like that or what?

[DVa]

oh ok, was there something else in my posts that struck you?

[DVa]

If that’s serious robot becomes my strongest scumread hands down and nothing I see in my reread will change that
It’s just too slimy of a play

try to keep up Gamma

[DVa]

You're obviously a hydra of Titus and RadiantCowbells

don't lie, I know the truth

[DVa]

I think it's because I didn't say "I have you surrounded" and "this is your last chance!" I do think in retrospect it reads a bit awkward the way I worded it

[DVa]

Nor should it be.

Please forgive me DVa, I understand that your pain should not be too severe. I am still filled with regret.
HURT: DVa
HEAL: Gamma

does this mean we're not frands again?

[DVa]

Well then why did you townread NSG? And what makes you disagree with robot’s reasoning there?

I believe robot argued that "posts with a finely veiled agenda are town indicative" and I didn't exactly see why that would be town indicative or how NSG's post reflected that. But I did like NSG's self-meta in that post, I think honest-sounding self-meta comes much more often from town than from scum.

[DVa]

Were you still going to do a read list or are you going through the next ~200 posts with questions before that?

[DVa]

Yeah I think I agree. I had a bit of a spat with N_M in my last game with him so I didn't want to come at him out of the gate, but I feel like in my last game he was shitposting and making jokey reads and coming up with nicknames, whereas here he's just done a wolfy pop-in and then popped out.

I don't know that "total disengagement" is reliably scum-indicative but I don't think I right now have a better candidate for scum than N_M.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Thread seems to be stalling again and my 'WIM' has kinda dropped honestly.

[DVa]

Who wants to be in my broalition?

*crickets*

[DVa]

I’ll do read explanations later but you can see my read list with the numbers I post. In

So right now your winning coalition looks something like: Gamma + Robot + DVa + NSG + {one out of TDW/Skitter}?

[DVa]

Ah, I needed to read your key more carefully.
So NSG: 8, TDW: 6, DVa: 4, Skitter: 4, Yuriko: 3 are the final values that matter.

Do you think NSG or TDW will adjust to have you in their coalition? Do you think they should?

[DVa]

You know I know you did this as town in Witches Ball but it kinda baffles me why you're so okay with being out of coalitions when you know you're town lol

[DVa]

Happy Thanksgiving coalition fam

[DVa]

I do not fully trust DVa but every time I think back on her, I am impressed by her continued willingness to impress her every thought process onto us.

I'm sort of starting to dislike your posts, I don't know that it makes you scum but I think you're one of the reasons the first thought I have when I open this game is "should I replace out?"

I don't even know you're being rude here, it strikes me as sorta passive aggressive but I don't know you mean it that way. Mostly I'm just exhausted by you doing 20,000 micro adjustments to your read of me and broadcasting each and every one when they all boil down to null, like you saying I'm null enough times will accomplish something.

[DVa]

This is a good time to sort each other though. Do you think any of my reads takes or shifts on your slot have been unfair or unjustified? If you think I'm taking liberties in a scum indicative way I'll leave that with you to talk through. But if you think I'm being unfair or not looking at the right things can you help me realise where you would expect to be read more strongly?

Mostly I feel like you've put a lot more effort at this point into saying how much you can't sort me than trying to sort me. Like there have been points where I felt like we were basically on the same page and then three posts later you're like "well idk guess it's null after all." idk feeling that way with half this player list though, like what's the point of even talking if people are just going to flip their read every other post. idk I thought this game would be a fun townhunting cluster and instead it's boring with half the list barely posting and the other half refusing to work with anyone on a coalition, just seems pointless and unfun at this point, I probably should just out. seems like the only potential time that fun would happen here would be if the coalition failed, which seems like it's likely to happen given people wanting to be replacing one inactive null slot for another rather than engaging the slots that are here

really don't even know why I'm still here, guess I'm hoping the game ends with coalition but like I'm not enjoying the process at this point, guess I can just chill and hope you guys solve without me and pretend I'm v/la until we actually can lynch someone or the game is over

[DVa]

I guess the deadline's paused anyway, feel like this is the best time to just replace out frankly

[DVa]

probs have we played before once on your main?

[DVa]

OK well you asked so I will try to flesh out why you have struck me as... well frustrating to work with robot.

This is probably the first point where I liked something you posted.

This is an odd post where you say you liked that I healed TDW but this seems oblique because you were scumreading TDW at the time, which is not the impression this post gave.

northsidegal is very strongly town.

I liked this early read and the commitment to it and thought our reads were aligning possibly here.

Why is TDW so high for you?

Your thought that you "liked" my post healing TDW while also doubting him seemed slightly townie.

My previous conclusion is strengthened by 17% due to you voting her immediately after I called out possible scum/scum interactions.
Having said that, I think you are town before skitter is. If I am wrong on one of you.

I thought your idea that me+skitter was s/s was far-fetched but since I felt skitter had come off as slightly scummy at the time I felt like your overall prioritization wasn't awful.

Ouch! Perhaps robots and humans are not meant to be friends.

This just felt manipulative.

@northsidegal, do you see what I see with town!DVa? I am seriously reconsidering my current read on her.

Here it seemed like based on new content you were seriously reevaluating your read but then nothing ever comes of it. At this point I look back at 235 and am like... why? for what? and why did you revert back? was this just spectacle to give the impression of reevaluation?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Skitter
Be more normal ok thx <3

Skitter's initial posting had roused something in my scumdar module as well. I liked this for an opening vote (more than I liked most of the opening votes here).

HEAL: Musicjax
HEAL: Yuriko

Yuriko is rarely a member of the mafia's first choice for their coalition here.
I would have been thoroughly impressed of scum!musicjax identified Yuriko as a choice here.
Unless it was entirely random. But musicjax is probably a human, and humans are incapable of randomness. Therefore I stand by this.

Yuriko's posts don't feel faked.

...indeed, it was not random!
He successfully picked the most pure slot in rvs. He could have easily gone for a more cliché slot or random healed to look busy.

Yo

any thoughts on the setup, musicjax??

I should be in the coalition.

For someone with as little tone as musicjax, I very much like this for tonally towny.

HEAL: The Dark Wanderer

What's the reason for anything.

I believe that this read contains more nuance than musucjax let's on. It irritates me that he has replaced out (and part of my impasse comment reflects here).
TDW's post is the type of content which demands to be townread.
However, I do not actually believe it is alignment indicative.
He strikes me as the type of player from another kind of site who has posted "enough", without contributing a hefty effort to solve the game. This isn't alignment indicative either, it is just the way the game is played elsewhere. In a longer term it may be possible to allocate to part of a scumcase. In isolation it is a playstyle/acitivity tell and nothing more.

I think Musicjax bit the bait here; he healed a post which smelled towny, but when called out on it, was unable to open his heart as to why it felt towny. In context I believe this is town indicative.

Oh freak someone might use this chain of humorous posting to scumread me later.

+ tone points
Also reflects back to the point DVa made earlier. I thoroughly agree that this kind of self-aware, depreciating comedy is town indicative for this player.

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

VOTE: Gamma
Yo guys join me on this pretend wagon.

This is advancing the game, and is done in a way with no regard for appearances.
Very invisibility-flavoured way to do it, to boot.

At the time this had really started to seal my thought that you could be a solid townread but pretty much every effort I made to start working with you after this felt very frustrating although idk, I was second guessing a lot of my playstyle techniques at this point

Again... her instinctive read on Gamma and lack of APPARENT re-evaluation should give me a read. It is not giving me a read, though.

This is where you start coming back to unwilling to commit to a read on me

Based off this follow-through, however, I am not confident that she experienced the same flood of lucidity that I had thought she had.

This is ignoring that skitter was casing you at the time, your own posts, and my desire to sort both you and skitter to a point where I could reach a consensus townblock, which felt disingenuous. The point wasn't just to have a desired coalition but to get the town to start agreeing on fucking anything, and me willing to actually talk through skitter's accusations made you flip your read of me? Weak shit

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Raya

I do not like hurting humans... I will make an effort to fill this coalition only with people who I do not wish to harm....

This is manipulative

Still a towny thought. I also believe that the fact TDW's approach to the game is not as scum indicative as I had first registered.

OK so you're finally starting to come around to TDW which is where I had been for ages

northsidegal
The Dark Wanderer
Raya36
probs a robot
TesXX
YurikoJasmine
Gamma Emerald

DVa

skitter30

I am wondering whether this reality can be operated within.
It is my opinion that I have allocated too much battery to time in reading DVa; while I am beginning to think she may be town, I do not think that if I include her in the coalition I am capable of later having a more decisive read on her. Therefore she presents as a poor choice.

Skitter, I need to re-evaluate but I do not think I can heal her in good conscience. She is simply not towny.

TDW I am coming around on, though I feel his reads need re-evaluation and reality checking. I am pleased to offer adequate objectivity in this regard! ^_^

northsidegal is towny. Raya is towny. I am convincing myself that Yuriko is towny.
TesXX and Gamma need to contribute more. Both do sit above null for me. But the read will shake.

Is {nsg, TDW, Raya} along with two of {Yuriko, Tes, Gamma} an adequate solve? If so my sources support a coalition of 5 of those 6 omitting Gamma. I would appreciate Tes' real time interactions. He is currently the second I would remove. Yuriko is the least likely I would remove in this category, but that will depend on Gamma and Tes' contributions.

So now you're willing to reevaluate TDW but you're putting me below slots that have said jack shit and still are entertaining me+skitter s/s which frankly seems hard for me to buy

I get similar feelings from this that I got from the Gamma/TDW interactions at game-start. This is a wholesome feeling. I have no alignment read of it.

A part of me wishes that it felt like an affront to gamesolving efforts. Or that it felt like a towny reaction. But neither of these is true. It is just a pleasant reaction.

And now you've started being unwilling to commit to a read on Gamma, which has consistently been the slot that I have wanted to coalition around.

So yeah, there have been times you've seemed to come around to my reads, there's been times you've seemed to reevaluate your read of me, there's been times you've seemed to reevaluate your association of me with skitter, but although you signal you're doing all these thoughts and reevaluations actually your reads just seem to basically stay the same, there's just lots of little manipulative one-off posts scattered throughout. Like I wanted to be able to townblock you have 275 and start advocating for a strong coalition core but your reads of me, TDW, Gamma, or lackthereof in some cases, just started to get really frustrating and at some point it became almost impossible to care what your read of me was. You voted me at one point instead of healing me *and I thought you meant to vote me* I had so lost track of where you were.

Basically yeah, the people I have wanted to townblock have been very slow to get into the game, half the other options are basically not here, and the other players that I townread basically want nothing to do with me. Just a frustrating, slightly boring game state.

[DVa]

Yeah I kinda get that Gamma could have more presence but his analysis compared to slots like Tes and frankly even Raya feels like night and day. Like he's less assertive about it but the way he's kinda just letting his reads play out is precisely why he is really obviously town here. His thought progression is very natural here.

The thing is I feel like despite having at times sorted you some of your key reads are hard to work toward a coalition on. And my frustration here is not exclusively at you, I'm actually pretty frustrated with NSG rn too. But there's no way you're both scum, one of the two of you is just a playstyle conflict, and with the lurkers and replace outs and frozen deadline I'm just like... meh

[DVa]

why do you think both nsg and robot aren't scum?

Well, I'm usually not *that* wrong on reads 0.o

[DVa]

oh, i know who probs a robot is i think. okay, i think he's almost certainly town here.

Can you expand on the nature of this meta read? I know you don't want to out him, but I'd like to know what sort of metric you're using

[DVa]

I tried to get started on the next batch and thought I was on track but I keep stalling because there’s a dead zone where nothing catches my eye
I’ll keep working on it but it’ll take some time

Maybe just ignore the garbage and focus on the shit that isn't NAI?

[DVa]

november 28th at 23:00 central US time

Wait,

@mod do we really only have 2 days left?

Is the deadline frozen due to replacements or what?

[DVa]

Lol I ruby'd
Ah well

?

[DVa]

robot is the worst?

[DVa]

OK well hopefully this will mean everyone can stop being so oblique with their meta reads

[DVa]

Ok so why is the worst scum/town?

How much first hand experience do you have with him?

How big of a sample size are we talking?

[DVa]

For a while I thought you were Performer but then you said we hadn't played together

[DVa]

The worst, since you've played with some of the people in this list multiple times, can you expand on how strong your reads are on them based on your personal experience and which are based purely on play this game?

[DVa]

how dare you disparage the name of RCsenpai

[DVa]

Hey Relly!

[DVa]

Probably

[DVa]

I still can't believe you believed he was vizzy replacing in on himself

[DVa]

She at one point was asking a lot of empty questions which pinged me but I've been thinking about the merits of various towncases on her

[DVa]

I am not

You are voting me

[DVa]

Gamma is town

[DVa]

That and her reads of me and Gamma seem lazy

[DVa]

So why did you start the game by isoing skitter?

[DVa]

can the scumteam be yuriko+not_mafia

Seems optimistic but not impossible

[DVa]

Do you plan to read from rvs or are you just doing isos? Not a criticism either way just wondering

[DVa]

She's jealous of our love

[DVa]

845 comes from scum 0/1,000,000 times

Which parts stand out to you?

[DVa]

Guess I'm more surprised you've read the whole thing considering you repped in like an hour ago lol

It's not a short vote to process particularly when you haven't read Yuriko, Tes, or Gamma independently yet

[DVa]

I've read 80% of yuriko and tex by reading the first 7 pages, yes?
I've been reading Gamma's ISO alongside reacting to new posts

True, so you read skitter, read the first 7 pages, then read robot?

[DVa]

is there a point to this line of questioning

Well there were two points actually
First, giving the impression of strong reads without development can be scum indicative (I don't remember you committing to a position like you are on the worst as you did in our newbie game)
but mostly I wanted to know if you had read RVS since I had a separate question about that

I feel like Raya got a lot of early heals. I know FYPOV Raya had a green card, but were you townreading Raya independently before replacing in (if you looked at the game) and do you feel like his posts justified the heals he got?

[DVa]

Well by the time Raya replaced out he has been healed at various times by:
TDW, NSG, TW, and Skitter

but Raya is a slot I spent a lot of time second guessing and wanted to see if you felt like skitter's reaction was more natural to your slot than tdw's basically

[DVa]

(sorry DVa I genuinely don't think you're a wolf but I also feel like unless I'm being finessed I have the scumteam and I'm not sure who else to take out atm)

Spoiler:

[DVa]

goat

?

[DVa]

as in carry?

[DVa]

can't be greatest coalition without me though

[DVa]

No reaction to the duck saying he wants to be in your broalition?

[DVa]

I am trying to get into the coalition since I want this game to end on day 1. I know some people don't think like that but knowing I am in the coalition increases the likelihood the coalition is all town by 20%, so yes, I do want in. I don't think I've ever been vague on that point. What has been asked that I have not answered?

As for who is scum, I am currently voting N_M and I have been going back and forth on the merits of several other slots.

-The perpetual absence of Yuriko slot does not make it easier for me to affirm or deny the currently proposed solution of that pairing
-Part of me is a bit worried by Relly coming in, declaring TW locktown because of a very long post, and then agreeing that the two people who aren't here and won't defend themselves are scum. But I feel like there was so little content from Raya that I'm still thinking through this, and I can't refute the point that Yuriko is scum when there's very little town indicative content from Yuriko. It's also worth considering whether if one scum replaced out the other would as well I suppose. He's also insistent that I townread skitter when I kinda moved away from heavily scumreading skitter a while ago, I just don't see why she should be in my coalition
-You still bother me, mostly because your read will seem to be changing, and then you'll ask a lot of questions, and then your read will seem to change but it seems only the most marginal of tics, which still makes me wonder whether you really care about the answers to your questions, which is the same thing I have been wondering about you this whole game
-I've already talked about my frustrations with the worst even though I still think he's probably town, I more think he's just exhausted my patience

so obviously out of N_M, Yuriko slot, Relly, Skitter, there are at least two town. Considering two of those have barely any content, the other just replaced in, and the last could plausibly be playstyle conflict, I'm still faced with the fundamental problem that has confounded me for most of this game, which is namely that the people I feel like I can strongly townblock do not want either me or the other people I want in the coalition in their coalition, and with the prolonged absence and the stalled deadline I am at a place where I'm not sure whether I care about this game still or not

Three of those people are not in most proposed coalitions so really the problem for me is skitter, who has sort of floated in a nullish, slightly scummy direction, but Relly's push for her to drop her read of me and for me to suddenly coalition her seems kinda odd tbh. I don't know if he's just biased toward her but I think TDW seemed a lot townier early game and is making no effort to be political in his presentation or in his reads

[DVa]

HEAL: the dark wanderer[/hurt]

what's funny is I feel like this sounds like your actual thought process

[DVa]

kinda wanted to hear more about this but i dont' think that ever happened

you literally just quoted me expanding on that point

and this is precisely why I don't like you in the coalition. >ask question that has been answered already >shade people for being bored by your pointless questions >ignore the part where they respond and explain again >ask more questions that have been answered already

this is why I have 0 interest in trying to change my read of you because so much of your posts continue to feel like they are not made in good faith

[DVa]

DVa
Gamma Emerald
The Dark Wanderer
NorthsideGal
probs not robot

This is what the rest of you have slowly been coming to but now you want to fuck it up by doing skitter over me, so no, I don't really have a problem with anyone in the coalition other than skitter. the rest of that is the coalition I have wanted since literally the beginning of this game and skitter basically took it as an opportunity to first dive robot and then dive me to get into it

[DVa]

explain how i did this

your meta case on music jax was literally 8 posts after I proposed that coalition

[DVa]

HEAL: DVa, The Worst, NSG, TDW, Gamma

This has been the gamewinning coalition for the entire game

Everyone fought me on the worst
everyone fought me on gamma
now everyone's fighting me on me

but this is still the best d1 win

you wanna do skitter's coalition, then get it fucking done so when it fails I can lynch her

[DVa]

To be honest I'm having weird feelings at this point. NSG seemed really strong early game but Nibbui already has almost as much activity and engagement as her. I actually like his progression here, and I certainly like it a lot more than Relly's which seemed to want to overly on a few meta reads and frankly felt a little bit like it had an agenda.

HURT: NSG
HEAL: Nibbui

There, now I think I have a coalition that pisses literally everyone off again, so you can all do skitter and then we can finally get to the lynching

[DVa]

It's finally over, hurray!

gg town

[DVa]

Were you spectating?