Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game
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- Varsoon
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Isn't the point of crumbs that people pick them up?In post 164, BuJaber wrote:My crumbing skills are of the chart man. Nobody caught it last game nobody will this game.
NOT THAT IT MATTERS EVEN IF YOU DO CRUMB SOMETHIN
LIKE IT'S NOT AS IF PEOPLE WILL PICK UP A GUILTY CRUMB AND ACTUALLY LYNCH ON IT
EVEN WHEN YOU EXPLICITLY. SPELL. IT. OUT.- Varsoon
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You are right, usually RR hold their votes close to the chest.
Though I think I did recently (by which I mean in the last year or so) see a game where Cerb was way more vote-happy and it tripped me up
Though, thinking back, maybe that was Cerb out of hydra?
Cerb, do you know what game I'm taking about?
My memory is garbage though, so I could just be wrong. :/- Varsoon
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I vomited up blood this morning!
Anyway I'll be fine, just have had a really painful cough and infection.
I dunno why people think I'm town based on what I've posted so far especially in light of BoR which was a setup with TONS OF KILLS where I intentionally kept a low profile to try to duck shots.
DrewVa--what makes me inactive garbage play here town compared to my inactive garbage play in BoR?
Also yeah I truly did forget and screw up how desperado worked like 4 times publicly in that setup so I should be ashamed of myself because it wasn't even a rhetorical ploy it was just me loud-derping.- Varsoon
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I went doctor without insurance, just visiting cost 128 bucks.
I'll pick up my prescriptions tonight and let ya'll know the damage.
It wasn't like gallons of blood or anything and I've been coughing up blood in the morning too.
It's a really bad cough. I mean, bad enough to induce vomiting, which is pretty bad.
Anyway.
I think that it's mostly that this is a setup with a lot of potential kills in it so people don't wanna stick their neck out too far out of concern of catching a bullet. Given how A50's approached role design before, it's safe to say a lot of people are PRs that they feel could help solve the game--or they're literally a role that needs to survive--or they're scum. So it makes sense from a survival standpoint that people wanna kinda keep from dedicating to anything too hard in case they offend the wrong person and catch lead for it, but it's not like BoR where literally 2/3 the playerbase could day-shoot you so I don't agree with the hesitation to just town hard in the paint and not solvegame. I get it, like, people don't wanna die and, typically, not wanting to die is seen as a scum trait, but I disagree with it entirely. This is a Stallone game. We're meant to jump into this guns blazing, right?- Varsoon
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I mean, shit, dude, I'm on RCE.
I'm the lead vote there.
I know I haven't doubled down on it, and my vote may be taken as some RVS nonsense but I haven't wavered for hard reason;
Dude did this wild RVS shit where he put me up onto multiple votes early while giving rationale that I caught scum-him in an earlier game (so why's that make me a good RVS candidate here?)
Dude was complicit with my bold-faced scum claiming asshatery which feels real slippery.
Dude was super eager to flop his vote around early onto obv-town Hebi in a way that doesn't sit right with me
Dude skeeved right off that wagon once it became sub-optimal to stay,
Dude is now on wisdom, who I am pretty sure is town
Dude has an ISO of joke posts and one-sentence skim
Dude where's my car
No really though I should've chosen a different means of referring to the dude.
Anyway.
I dunno how much of this is just personal beef with how that guy interfaces but I really really think I've got a good chance of being right out the woodwork there and nothing else sings to me like that lynch.
It's also gotten other votes so so so easy which feels good.
It just feels good, RR.- Varsoon
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Like the cray shit is
You're in a game with 26 people right
Right
You come in and you see Flavor Leaf has voted Varsoon but just ditched that vote to go somewhere else
Instead of voting anywhere else, you vote Varsoon to drive attention back there, specifically calling out a game that Flavor Leaf was in as well, all while guffawing about it being a vote over me having caught him in that game
Like why
Why that level of manipulative ploy and swipe at making the momentum go back towards me?
It's cus that dude knows I'm the fucking scatman.- Varsoon
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In post 385, Creature wrote:Well, I don't use shoes as avatarSpoiler: Your loss- Varsoon
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spoonfeed me on that voteIn post 386, Alchemist21 wrote:VOTE: BrightEyedFish
That’s the vote I’m most comfortable with right now.
'cus from what I've read BrightEyed just seems BushyTailed and easy.- Varsoon
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...do you think a Cutthroat Kitchen themed mafia game could work?
Like everyone starts with $25,000 to spend publicly before each day phase on bids for mechanics that 'sabotage' other players
Curious how I'd flavor lynching and kills though... Hm.
Has anyone else ever done the whole 'panel of judges' lynch thing?
It's a closed theme setup, Toog. A50 can just invent roles.- Varsoon
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I'm havin' a laugh becauseIn post 474, BuJaber wrote:
For the record this is your best post so farIn post 469, RCEnigma wrote:Bujaber - FL made a good point about grabbing attention. The back and forth with Nancy was exactly that, Don't think Wisdom has anything to gain from the exchange. The pressure on Nancy is nice and Wisdom may not have set it in motion but he did jumpstart it. Sad FL called Nancy town so early.
He also shut Varsoon down which was pretty sweet.
1. RCE thinks Bujaber 'shut me down', somehow? When I go to sleep, is Bujaber tucking me in? When I leave my computer to get dinner, is that Bujaber making me hungry? Aw shit I got work now gotta go clock some time for Bujaber.
2. Bujaber is complicit in taking cred for this and saying RCE's turd of a post is their 'best post so far' which is hilarious because it's an information instead of analysis post and it's incredibly weak and if this constitutes RCE's best posting, I'm havin' a laugh
Still catching up but if Bujaber develops a townread on RCE from this, doesn't look great for either slot.- Varsoon
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So I am caught up now and RCE's hard shift from garbageposting to actually trying to grapple with his wagon has me wondering if I should hit the breaks on it or not. Like, as scum, yeah, he'd have to change his approach in order to survive and I'm extremely sketched out on how quick he is willing to think I'm just town for my push and be level headed about it, but the fact I haven't seemed to have gotten under this dude's skin at all and that he's actually doing something resembling work makes me wanna shift gears, too.
RCE:Out of the other people who are 'Varsooning' you; why aren't you pushing for more pressure there? Do you think there's scum in those players? Do you think your wagon is an easy sheep or...?
This whole thing has made me look a lot more at Bujaber, who feels less genuine than the 'leather' jacket I got from the flea market.
Like what have you gotten out of any of your interactions or questions, Buja?
VOTE: Bujaber- Varsoon
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It's minimum effort which, at that point, is practically required if he's actually scum.
It doesn't express much independent thought--the conclusions he's coming to in that post aren't challenging or particularly unique to RCE's PoV.
It feels like he skimmed up to that point and just recounted literally what happened.
I'm not a fan of it.
I don't get why you are.
Like yeah I can get 'encouraging better content' but it really doesn't look like that's what you were doing at all.- Varsoon
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You can still take the reigns if you have some actual reasons to elaborate on why other folks should be voting there
This is my worst challenge when it comes to mafia
It's really hard for me to get others to see shit that I consider obvious- Varsoon
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In post 699, DrewVa wrote:
Why do you dislike mass claims? I agree. they should never be done until later into the game but not at all?In post 697, Varsoon wrote:Massclaim
more like
assclaim
I'm baking anti-mass claim mechanics into all my future setups BRB
I admit, I was very sore about that last game as I was about being copped but mass claiming can help town when you get closer to LYLO.
Because I like to win because I was smart and not because of a setup being poorly designed.In post 700, DrewVa wrote:In post 698, pinturicchio wrote:Massclaim is discouraged this game 'cause scum has fakeclaims made specially for them
I wonder if those fake claims involve flavour. He says no flavour gaming but I was able to help solve Labrynth based on the fake flavour connection between scum!Chick and scum!rando in that one.3- This game most certainly canNot be broken by flavor-gaming or mass claiming. (I will still advise against the practice though)
4- If you didn't get it: All anti-Town players have been provided with proper fake claims.
Alright I see now how claiming anything just helps scum. :/
Flavor gaming/mass claiming are both gimmick plays to exploit the design of a setup and, to me, are against the spirit of the game.
Like yeah I'll go along with whatever shit because it'll win but it's still garbage and I hate it.
I could go into it more but that's the simple of it.- Varsoon
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The short answer is, of course, 'Design a game that can't be flavor-gamed or won on a massclaim'
The problem is that having enjoyable flavor often is difficult to do while avoiding flavor-gaming just winning it
The problem is that designing a role madness non-normal setup is difficult to do with massclaim in mind
It can be done and I'd argue I've done it before but
It's annoying when you DO design it right and players still try to exploit stuff like that for an advantage.- Varsoon
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It sucks to be on the losing side of that shit, regardless of what that side is.
Honestly, it sucks to be on the winning side of that shit, too. It feels empty to me.
It's entirely divorced from why I play mafia. It's why I avoid open setups like the plague. It's why I haven't signed up for any more newbie games despite enjoying them a good deal as of late.- Varsoon
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The irony is that what I really want to play is a mountainous game, ideally.
But a lot of players derive more engagement with the game if there are roles there
And I enjoy rendering flavor of themes I like as mafia mechanics and roles
So the challenge I give myself is attempting to render out a setup with fitting roles and flavor where the role interactions help propel a game of rhetoric rather than supersede it.- Varsoon
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Just ate so so so much food. Turkey day is great, ya'll.
Anyway
RR doesn't make this play as scum, imo.
Also, Mafia is a game of rhetoric. You should expect that literally anything you post in the game thread is subject to speculation and doubt--if it bothers you that your earnest emotions can be interpreted as rhetorical posturing, maybe avoid games where that's literally a strategy.
I'm pretty much taking you both at face value regardless, for what it's worth;
Like I believe DrewVa is actually frustrated/feeling these ways
and I believe RR legitimately is finding issue with how DrewVa is playing
But like I said
I don't think either of their play is specifically attempting to manipulate others.- Varsoon
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^ And by that, I mean dishonest manipulation. Like, yes, obviously, both are trying to convince others of their viewpoint, but neither has a dishonest viewpoint imo
P-EDIT:
Yeah I literally said on page 1 that RCE was my scum partner, guess no one takes RVS posts seriously
whoops I'm doing that trust-tell thing again- Varsoon
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So RR is a player that I legit do have a ton of issue reading thanks to moderating a TON of their games and seeing them play both sides of the coin.
I'd actually have an absolute scumread on them for the Cerb head taking an experimental/different approach than usual given I recall that kinda being the case when Cerb was in my SaGa Frontier game (hydra'd differently, was third party) but given the town!experimentation with approach in the previous Overkill game, I can't lean too much on that meta point anymore.
I think they're town, especially given the Drixx posts and the general ethos both exude here, though that's more a gut read than something I can articulate very well.
Why, whacha think? Hard slot to parse or something else?- Varsoon
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Like what posts/words?
I'll be honest, I glazed through the last 7 pages in catchup pretty hard
Don't mean any disrespect or anything on my end
Just want you to be hard aware that people will for sure misread emotion in this game and will hard misread emotional response as rhetorical manipulation.
It's probably not accurate to call it 'bullying' or something like 'emotional browbeating' but yeah.- Varsoon
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If I'm reading correctly, the above ^ is a response to the belowIn post 857, DrewVa wrote:P.edit Drixx, I think you’re being kind of mean to me here. Please stop it. Thanks.
I don't really get what's mean about this post.In post 851, Reasonably Rational wrote:
We always take a commanding role, regardless of alignment. We don't always do it in the early parts of day one in a very large game. We also don't always ignore relatives in town for major holidays (I've had family over for a week already, for example).In post 823, BuJaber wrote:
They both took a commanding role in overkill 1.In post 804, Tails wrote:Both Thor and RR have posted every day. Was there more you were expecting there? Were you expecting uber posting?
Granted Thor was SK so perhaps not the best comparison but I assume he was playing similar to how he would as town. I've never been SK just seems like the right way to play it.
Also ... we've already put out at least two solid rationales for why Hebichan and Drewva are looking quite bad from things they posted this game. I'm not sure how much more other people are "commanding" the game atm? I see a lot of people ignoring or hand waving away Hebichan's lying and by some bizarre twist of reasoning, nearly everyone seems to think Nancy's histrionics and circular reasoning are a reason to town read the Drewva hydra.
Not sure what more you want here bud. Maybe be a bit more specific?
~D
Happy Thanksgiving to all the {Insert correct terminology here}™- Varsoon
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And the correct terminology isPilgrims
P-EDIT:
Ditto. I don't think you should stop playing games either, just be aware that people will interpret genuine expression as rhetorical manipulation a lot.
I've gotten mad frustrated with games and literally scoffed at and told to stop AtE'ing tons. It's wild out there.
I still think you should keep playin and I still value you a ton as a player <3
P-P-EDIT:
The previous was for RR, then Nancy; this Post-Preview-Edit is for RCE;
I've moderated like 90% of the games RR's played on-site, I think. I even helped build and spectated Overkill 1. If anyone's cognizant of RR's meta, it's me. A lot of stuff here points to RR's town rhetoric, but a lot of the play is very meta-contrary regardless of alignment, if that makes sense. Cerb-head already spoke towards being aware of this and seeing if people would catch on, so there's a bit of WIFOM there regardless.
Tbh, kinda hoping that they just get killed so I don't have to sort them but their play will make their alignment real evident in time--I've got em as town (possible third party) for now, but I don't see this play as coming from scum RR whatsoever.- Varsoon
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DrewVa, here's the thing;
RR was scumreading your slot for their reasons
You asked them to stop being mean, which I believe they took as 'stop pushing a scumread on me because it is mean to do so' rather than 'stop using such aggressive rhetoric it bothers me'
So Drixx, who has a huge problem with people leveraging AtE like that, doubled down on that stance.
At least that's what I've taken from it, if that makes sense.- Varsoon
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So like, from Drixx's PoV your play is still rhetorical/game-based and him sticking to his convictions of a scumread isn't intended as disrespect
Which becomes more of an issue because he takes a harder rhetorical stance that feels like it invalidates your feelings or twists them in some way/makes you out as some emotional bully which, imo, you're not.- Varsoon
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I tend to infer bullying a lot harder as a situation where intimidation (and often social dynamics) are involved--but that's more from the PoV of an educator where the sort of bullying I deal with manifests as social and physical bullying.
Being like "Your rhetorical aggressiveness makes me uncomfortable to the point of wanting to replace out" comes off far less like bullying to me. It's not so much of a taking-the-ball-and-going home thing since the game can continue with a replacement and replacing out for personal reasons (such as feeling emotionally compromised from playing to wincon) are perfectly valid. I don't really see DrewVa's move to replace out as a threat so much as an actual indicator that your rhetoric is legitimately making them consider replacing out.
P-EDIT: That's what I'm saying. Profii's not confident enough to not spill the WINE.
P-P-EDIT: Day should continue but thread will lock so a flip can be posted and VC should reset.- Varsoon
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Why does my alignment change suddenly if I am a day vig or not?In post 948, profii wrote:Btw I’m about to head off but if Varsoon is not a day vig then we should lynch him - will explain when I arrive and can get access to a keyboard... 110 miles to go do couple hours
I literally just lost a game with a scum day vigilante in it. - Varsoon
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