Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[davesaz]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball
One of the l's failed to confirm.

@hebichan you think jokesters can't be scum? Especially those particular jokesters?

[davesaz]

Haven't been in a fast game in a while. Bottom of page 11.

[davesaz]

I actually have a role that gets charged from getting shot with a night kill, so I’m okay with thatz

Based on the lessons Almost took from the last game, this is not town. I'm not sure it's scum, though.

Based on extensive observations of FL (and Boon) this is unlikely to be the final word on what his role is.

[davesaz]

Spoiler: Profii made a list

Let's see if I can do this, I'm gonna quickly flick through isos and sort into 3 categories if i can.


more towny than scum:
DrewVa (DVa & Nancy Drew 39)
farside
Alchemist21
Varsoon
Gamma Emerald
Thor665
hebichan

Too early to tell:
Flavor Leaf
Malakitty
RCEnigma
Toogeloo
BuJaber
davesaz
Chickadee
DrippingGoofball
CheekyTeeky
Fortian (DeasVail & Regfan)
Majiffy
Amzela


more scummy than town:
Creature
Reasonably Rational (Drixx & Cerb)
Tails
Wisdom
pinturicchio
BrightEyedFish

VOTE: RR

@Profii: I think you're off when it comes to your scum list. Except maybe Fishy. But yeah...need to sharpen up those reads dude.

I'm a little skeptical of full lists this early in such a large game. What are your thoughts on that aspect of Profii's post?

[davesaz]

That felt slimy to me.
You should probably sheep this wagon Cheeky.

I saw this but missed the opportunity back then to ask what was slimy.

[davesaz]

It’s not comprehensive and seems pretty basic, so it checks out as an early list

Is this a comment on the basic character of the list, or the contents? Did you look at the contents before you replied?

[davesaz]

Also my opinion of both thor and tails are dropping fast.

Hmm, what are you noticing about tails?

[davesaz]

That felt slimy to me.
You should probably sheep this wagon Cheeky.

I saw this but missed the opportunity back then to ask what was slimy.

What is verrrrrrry interesting about RCE getting a townread on Cheeky for calling out a post that was hedging?
It was sort of an empty pandery post the implied work while not actually being work.

I wasn't sure which post you were referring to, thanks.

[davesaz]

The important bit is now when people start asking me questions as I will get a feel for what people like or don’t like about the list so yeah that’s kinda my plan - I’m pretty new to games with so many players so I’m kinda trying to draw some conversation my way to get involved

This is what I was quoting about profii, by the way.

I agree with pintu's past couple posts about profii's list.

[davesaz]

3 posts with nothing game related

I would call this scum.

Which one, the one with 3 posts, or the one pointing out the 3 posts?

[davesaz]

I'm at the bottom of 38.
I see someone else has finally picked up on DGB being obvscum.
It was me who brought up profii's read list as scummy.

@RR: "histrionics" is to woman as "n-word" is to black. Capish? (well, maybe not that strong an analogy, but yes there is that general type of word association involved)

I can read a few more pages, then need to participate in some quasi-shopping activity.

[davesaz]

Bottom of 40 -- looks like hatchet is buried so my previous post was unnecessary.

[davesaz]

Sorry, couldn't keep it up until a votecount.
I think we've also got literally everything we'd get out of the gambit and also Profii is for sure town.

You don't think profii is capable of doing this as scum?

[davesaz]

I'm caught up in the sense of having passed my eyes along all of the pages.
I have not processed all of that stuff. Certainly not in depth.

@wisdom -- because she doesn't seem to be doing anything to solve. That is a mismatch from what I remember, though the memory is quite old. Failure to solve is a good reason on d1 in any case.

I agree with the creature scumread, though with the caveat that a holiday week is not a good week to judge activity on.

Varsoon fake dayvig feels right from a playstyle point of view, probably more town than not but that's weak.
Profii is probably walking dead after the cop soft / not soft / crumb / not crumb / no that wasn't really a hardclaim thing. I still have a weak scumread there.
Alonzo is treading on too derp to be scum so maybe it is.
I really have to go now. Was supposed to stop this more than half an hour ago.

[davesaz]

If they’re both town they would be on the same side and not know. Agree it’s probably not theater in the same faction.

[davesaz]

I'm kinda getting tired of letting Creature coast on posting = town. Some genuine scumhunting would be nice.

[davesaz]

I'm caught up in the sense of having passed my eyes along all of the pages.
I have not processed all of that stuff. Certainly not in depth.

@wisdom -- because she doesn't seem to be doing anything to solve. That is a mismatch from what I remember, though the memory is quite old. Failure to solve is a good reason on d1 in any case.

I agree with the creature scumread, though with the caveat that a holiday week is not a good week to judge activity on.

Varsoon fake dayvig feels right from a playstyle point of view, probably more town than not but that's weak.
Profii is probably walking dead after the cop soft / not soft / crumb / not crumb / no that wasn't really a hardclaim thing. I still have a weak scumread there.
Alonzo is treading on too derp to be scum so maybe it is.
I really have to go now. Was supposed to stop this more than half an hour ago.

davesaz looks bad

Oh really? Explain plz.

[davesaz]

@Creature
As far as I know the biggest wagon is only around 1/2 the number a lynch needs anyway.
The catchup posts are ok-ish, but I don't get as much from them as I would if you said something about why.
You quote something and say this is town, but it's impossible to tell if you really think that or for what reason because you say nothing else.

[davesaz]

davesaz

Umm, at post #56 it was a RVS joke.
If you're asking why I'm still voting DGB, it's for not game solving.

Pedit: If all I see is a quote and no additional words from you, that doesn't count. I don't accept that from anyone.

[davesaz]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball
One of the l's failed to confirm.

Why vote someone who hasn't posted yet?

Ugh, the forum trimmed the quote to what I was searching on to find the quote.

[davesaz]

votecount

With 26 alive it takes 14 to lynch.

DrippingGoofball (5):	davesaz (56),	BrightEyedFish (1089),	RCEnigma (1098),	pinturicchio (1099),	Amzela (1150),
Majiffy (5):	Wisdom (1078),	BuJaber (1222),	Gamma Emerald (1231),	Varsoon (1232),	DrewVa (1344),
Creature (3):	Chickadee (1090),	Majiffy (1314),	hebichan (1320),
RCEnigma (2):	Thor665 (61),	Tails (477),
BuJaber (2):	DrippingGoofball (609),	profii (1142),
BrightEyedFish (1):	Alchemist21 (386),
CheekyTeeky (1):	Alonzo (440),
Chickadee (1):	Fortian (830),
profii (1):	Reasonably Rational (893),
Thor665 (1):	CheekyTeeky (1174),
Flavor Leaf (1):	Malakitty (1178),
Not voting (3):	Creature,	Toogeloo,	Flavor Leaf (416),

(expired on 2018-12-04 02:30:00) remain.

With Thor's vote and Chickadee's unvote, it's DGB 5, Majiffy 5, BuJaber 3.
One of Thor's points is correct, the top 3 wagons combined would not be enough votes. We're going to need to make a

lot

of progress on that.

[davesaz]

Might be worthwhile to do an in-wagon analysis of where the wagon came from. I'll do Majiffy wagon first, in large part because I don't actually remember why anyone is scumreading him. That super-nice VC format allows us to easily multi-quote all of the votes.

and profii is town

VOTE: majiffy

No reason given in the vote post. Will need to ISO to find it, if there is one.

Haven't finished reading but so far varsoon and majiffy really don't seem like they're reading very well.

Varsoon keeps mistaking posts adressed to othrs as adressed to him, like when I called majiffy a sheep.

And majiffy because nobody who read my interactions with RCE coild possibly think my vote was a simple wagon hop. Doesn't seem like he's actually reading just wanted an easy target and picked on the latest vote on RCE at the time. I think he's scum, possibly protecting his partner. VOTE: majiffy

RR has talked a lot more than I remember so I'm sorry about the activity comment.. your case on hebichan is interesting. I'll look into it further when it's time for hebi's ISO read but it's important to note that chick kinda defended her and there might be a connection there.

Gives a fairly reasonable-sounding reason. I haven't vetted the case itself.

I call BS. There’s a multitude of reasons why a post-game explanation is bad
VOTE: Majiffy
If you’re making that type of statement you’d probably have already done analysis to support it. Since you haven’t that means it’s a crock of shit.

I can see thinking that "maybe I'll tell you after the game" as an answer to a question about a supposed tell can be interpreted as scummy. And I'd kinda expect GE to have that kind of read as town. I think it's fairly shallow since there are quite valid reasons not to blab your private tells on another player as any alignment, but I don't think shading it is scummy. So this vote is for a valid reason, whether the reason is correct or not.

Ew. The one time I can recall someone being like "I got this scumread but I'll explain it later" was GiF in a game where I pegged him as scum for it, he replaced out, then I was promptly killed and his team went on to win.
So excuse me if I'm going to be a bit critical of this kinda shit:
VOTE: Majiffy

Can't tell if Varsoon is sheeping GE's post or if they both came up with the same reason simultaneously. Would need to look at post timestamps.

I get why some people are getting annoyed by Creature but that doesn’t make him scum. He is actively trying to solve the game here. I think Creature is town here.

If we don't remove him he's going to keep it up. If he keeps it up, a lot of us have to replace out. If a lot of us replace out, this game dies.

It's called a policy lynch and if people would stop being afraid of them we could start curbing shit behavior like spamming a thread with 50 one-liner posts.

VOTE: Majiffy

I dislike you trying to push a “policy lynch” on what I think is a town slot.

Eh, I don't know if pushing policy would be worth the risk as scum, but I get the vibe of the vote. Probably legit.

Pedit: Got a reason?

[davesaz]

His lack of sorting/reaction to initial votes/opportunistic jump on creature.

I suggest you read his ISO as VCA isn't going to tell us much preflip.

This isn't VCA. This is looking at the why of the current votes.

[davesaz]

Creature is obvtowning it up

so when can we lynch Wisdom? -D

I think the quoted Wisdom post is too shallow. One burst of activity does not a town Creature make. And I think the content isn't awful but it isn't especially solid either.

[davesaz]

hes not town because of "one burst of activity"
Its funny that you think you can assign reasons to my reads on your own

He has only had one burst of activity, therefore any read you are making must come from that burst.
I'll believe it if/when he posts meaningful material for several days.

[davesaz]

Re: 1486, I saw those points, correctly figured out what it was saying, and thought to myself that one or more people would fail miserably at comprehension. Successful prediction.

[davesaz]

hes not town because of "one burst of activity"
Its funny that you think you can assign reasons to my reads on your own

He has only had one burst of activity, therefore any read you are making must come from that burst.
I'll believe it if/when he posts meaningful material for several days.

how are you ok with being so shallow
unbelievable

Excuse me? I'm the one who's unwilling to obvtown him (or anyone but that's another discussion).

[davesaz]

it's worked before

VOTE: hebichan

Feeling this is town

Ooo cheeky is town already. Verrrrrrrry interesting.

Okay, can see RCE being town now

(even though I disagree)

And you don't think there's scum in that group? I'd be on Flavor myself if I wasn't buddying up to Wisdom.

You're also voting RCE. So...

Tails town

Because hebi got off after earlier saying likely scum in me/RCE/FL

Caause no one was replying at the time. Not gonna reply to a sleeping game. I'm still around.

Oh you meant got off the RCE wagon. Same deal. I just want other people to reply. I'll get back on you three once I feel like its actually time to push who I think is scum.

hebichan should also be town

Page 6

BEF town and hopefully I'm not wrong like last game

Spoiler: lol thank me for spoiling this

I am reporting that I have a negative utility to town.
I can ONLY hammer, and if I place a vote that isn't the hammer, I will be modkilled.

---
I will openly claim now as well. I am

THE

Sylvester Stallone. I am not one of his characters he's played, but the actual person as my role. As the actual person, I must have final say in the lynch," i.e. I can only hammer. Don't ask why the mod chose to make my role and flavor as it is, I don't know. Don't ask me to vote if it's not the hammer, it won't happen.

A50 has to be trolling you. Why do you get the crazy roles that sound like a complete LIE but that nobody would ever fake claim...

Except this time A50 said there will be fake claims.

I still believe you though.. also I think you have a high chance of killing yourself anyway. This is based on me not trusting myself to not die with a role like that, I project the same level of human error potential on you.

Ooo cheeky is town already. Verrrrrrrry interesting.

Based on what? And why would it be interesting?

I'm mad that Toog took my fake claim...

Anyways, I'm a Jinglebell Jester. If I'm lynched before 3p Lylo, everyone loses and Jingle wins. My wincon is to be lynched in 3p Lylo. Also, I'm Bulletproof, so no shooting me kiddos.

Anyone wanna end the game right now?

Yes actually I don't believe such a role would exist.

Why is the jester the towniest person.....besides Cheeky.

You're2right2!2I2should2claim2scum2.2

This made me laugh. Nice attitude to have regarding the last game.

Yey BuJaber is town

VOTE: Wisdom

Feels town

Alch town page 15

Page 21

So many obvtown

Is it a good or a bad sign?

No, I'm not shallow. This is shallow.

Pedit: I disagree that the posts in the burst are meaningful (and whatever you're seeing could be fake), and assert that if he stops posting after this that will be a scumtell.

[davesaz]

No reason given in the vote post

This analysis is going to go great if youre basing it on reasons in vote posts

Nice editing job.

No reason given in the vote postNo reason given in the vote post.

Will need to ISO to find it, if there is one.

I don't take kindly to being shaded, when the thing you're trying to shade me with is something I specifically acknowledged in the quoted post yet you chose to edit it out.

[davesaz]

Drixx you're being a grade-A asshole here and it's definitely crossed from unintentional slight to willingly disrespectful and distracting to the game. Stand down on the attacks.

look at jiffy buddying Nancy
Guess hes actually scum

and profii is town

VOTE: majiffy

Here's what I see. Buddying is the reason for this vote? Or is there more?

Pedit: I'm soapboxing that reasons are one of the better weapons that town have to win. If we force everyone to give reasons for everything, then scum can't hide in the herd of people who are naked voting all the time.

[davesaz]

I'll give you credit for being open about it. Hopefully you're not saying that you don't give reasons for anything.

TBF there

are

times when it's better to be mysterious. I'm not the type of person who gets into death spiral obsessions over this type of thing.
I'll also freely admit that certain reads of mine are pure intuition where I just feel the read and can't easily explain why.

[davesaz]

Nero, please refrain from personal attacks.

[davesaz]

Could someone more familiar with DGB meta talk to me about that

I don't know about others, but for me it's not a meta thing at all. My vote started out RVS and then stayed when she posted a few times but avoided doing anything real.
I haven't really agreed with any of the other wagons, so it's more inertia than anything else.

[davesaz]

Actually, I looked at Chickadee and while I'm not sure why others are voting there, I see something that I don't like.
She has posted a lot about Creature but has apparently not paid any attention to the other goings on in the thread.
Granted she's posting about being sick and I never shade when people have RL issues. Not posting could be overlooked for that, but the narrow focus less so.

VOTE: Chickadee

[davesaz]

I might end up being pretty busy today, but if I get time I'll look at the reasons given for voting Chickadee. It's interesting that my reason is referred to but I'm 5th vote.
We have around 3-4 days to go before time starts getting to be an issue to be certain of gathering enough votes in such a large game.

[davesaz]

@DGB: You mean this wagon?
A comment like that made me curious enough to spend a couple of minutes now. It's a bit more straightforward to do this one anyway.
Same comment as before, grabbing the vote posts is quick, if the needed info is in another post this method won't get it.
Same comment as before, it isn't analyzing vote flow so it's not VCA in the strict sense of the term. It's finding out if the wagon has a basis or not.

@RR and anyone else who thinks they know:

What is your scum range? How would you characterize the difference between your town meta and scum meta?

It occurs to me that for someone like you (someone whose posts are kinda emotionless) the line becomes rather blurry.

But tails here claims you're already out of your scum range.

VOTE: BUjaber

I don't want to guess what this reason was. Care to enlighten us with some additional words?

VOTE: Bujaber
im gonna sheep this because it will probably help me sort BuJ and I can't put my thoughts on Wisdom into coherent sentences yet

Baah

I am horrified that we are 58 pages in, with three three vote wagons competing.
I'mma do what I can to help;

Don't know Pinturiccho, so no sheep energy there.
Wisdom don't get sheepage.
RR...maybe.
Majiffy, sure.
Varsoon looks town.
DGB sure.

VOTE: BuJaber

Now we have a 4 vote wagona three vote wagon and a two vote wagon - excitement!

Wanting to have

*wagons*

is Thor to the core. How the wagon was chosen is sketchy.

VOTE: Bujaber
Back on the track, this the anime master.
Hoes on my flick, Cowboy Bebop when I'm blastin' em

Not a clue. If there is a hidden reason within this, someone like me is

never

gonna get it.

Idk what to make of that replace out rn. I'm going to say that slot gets a chance to redeem itself.

VOTE: BuJaber

I wouldn't mind a Thor wagon either if some momentum started happening there. I can't really explain my read as it's mainly just a gut feeling that he's playing strangely and doing the bare minimum.

The chick wagon is understandable.

As far as I can infer from this one, it's an unvote that just happened to pick another big-ish wagon to move to.

On the surface the wagon has a very tenuous basis.

[davesaz]

Eek a naked vote.

[davesaz]

I'm back to work for a few days. So you'll be seeing a little less of me.
Clemency isn't doing much to redeem his slot.

[davesaz]

Nero made that multi vote post after making a comment that too many people were either naked voting or ok with it. Suspecting it isn’t a read list...

[davesaz]

If anyone would like to make a better case than the one we have on Clemency (Chick) you're running out of time to do it. A game this big doesn't usually turn on a dime.
I have seen practically nothing given in terms of concrete reasons for any of the other wagons. If something was stated then it's not getting repeated in the way that a town-led case should be.

[davesaz]

Catching up I see several people calling the chick/clemency wagon activity.
My read on that slot is

not

based on activity, and yours shouldn't be either.

There was plenty of activity and other wagons to notice and respond to, and Chickadee focused exclusively on Creature.
Clemency has posted tons but hasn't attempted to sort anyone. The scumtell is

not sorting

.
This year I've nailed half a dozen scum this way. (there have been a few mislynches because of it too, so it isn't perfect)

[davesaz]

I will note that there are others who meet the criteria in this game, DGB being the best example. But DGB is very inactive, compared to Chickadee/Clemency who have been posting but not saying anything useful.

[davesaz]

Gamma, why are you town?

I remember like exactly zero things about you this game

Did you just replace in?

I’ve been in from the start
Why no response to my joke claim? Did hat SERIOUSLY not stand out to you?
This is practically a scumclaim from Creature given both his individual meta and the combined meta of him, Flavor, and myself.
VOTE: Creature

We have a little time to pick fights with vanity wagons, but not much. It's an interesting angle, and like I said a few days ago in different words the "Creature towntell" doesn't apply when it's empty or questionable content. This might need to be the game I finally remember to make notes in a notepad or private google doc. But for now I'm gonna settle for getting it into my iso.

[davesaz]

Why would a scum self hammer to prevent his partner from hammering. That makes no sense

If Toogeloo’s role is fake. Normally, you’d be absolutely right about that. But don’t you think there’s some weird associatives with Clem’s self-hammering - to according to him, prevent Toogeloo from hammering and Chick’s Toogeloo defense? Either one alone, wouldn’t have made me think that. Do you think Clem just wanted to die anyway and tried to shade Toogeloo? I suppose that is also possible.

If his claim was fake, letting him hammer would make much more sense than not letting him hammer. Unless Toog's role was "if you hammer one of your partners you die", which makes NO sense at all. Also, I don't think Chick's post was a defense, since there was a lot of consensus on Toog being town. I see that post much more like a "look at me I'm doing something", contributing nothing new to the game, than a defense.

I agree with this interpretation.

[davesaz]

davesaz -- Seems really passive so far

I think pushing an actual reason for the Chick/Clemency lynch hardly qualifies as passive.
I'm not a table pounder in most situations. If you're expecting hundreds of posts with fireworks you're looking at the wrong slot for that.

[davesaz]

You know you're an old programmer when you read Fortian as Fortran.

I'm basically floored by this sequence of events. I can kinda see town wanting the wifom to go away but OTOH why not give scumhunting your all first?

[davesaz]

Kinda wondering what's actually going to go down tbh.

[davesaz]

most likely a jester.

Doubt a jester admits they have to he lynched
More likely a vengeful or something

For the Jester variant which immediately wins the game and town loses when lynched, I agree.
I think A50 implied the variant which wins and the game continues would be more likely, but I haven't looked that up.
That kind wants to admit it but the only reason for town to go there, other than being kind, is to improve numbers.

I kinda wonder if it's a lynch-enabled role. But I loathe rolefishing so it pains me to mention it.
In any case until she is a more overt danger to town I'm thinking our effort is better spent on something else. Agree?

Pedit: yup we agree

[davesaz]

I'm voting preferably outside the Chickadee wagon

You do get that this is multiball right? I may be biased but it's more likely there are scum ON the wagon with how long it was a thing for and how frozen Clemency was, giving no reads or analysis near the end.

Other team scum wouldn't make this post.
Same team or town would.

[davesaz]

Clemency was hammered

Overkill 2; D1 Final VC

VC#?

Clemency (14):

Fortian (830), pinturicchio (1599), RCEnigma (1601), Wisdom (1650), davesaz (1658), BrightEyedFish (1731), Alchemist21 (1750), Tails (1913), BuJaber (2022), Alonzo (2242), profii (2288), DrewVa (2381), hebichan (2406), Clemency (2407),[/size]

BuJaber (4):

DrippingGoofball (609), Thor665 (

1438

), Varsoon (1452), Nero Cain (2147),

Flavor Leaf (2):

Malakitty (1178), Creature (1921),

Creature (2):

Flavor Leaf (2030), Gamma Emerald (2397),

profii (1):

Reasonably Rational (893),

Tails (1):

CheekyTeeky (2070),

Not voting (2): Toogeloo, Amzela (1827),

Deadline Suspended

I think there's definitely scum on Clem given no real counter. I'm thinking Buj is more likely town or not svs with Clem.

Other team scum has entered my mind. What's keeping me from going there full bore is that I never really understood why any of them were voting BuJaber in the first place.

[davesaz]

Didnt realize modkills normally make you not town. Don't play with modkills almost ever, and never saw one go off.

You know you're an old programmer when you read Fortian as Fortran.

I'm basically floored by this sequence of events. I can kinda see town wanting the wifom to go away but OTOH why not give scumhunting your all first?

Both gross. I'm making myself a huge pile of scum :/

Why do you think mine is gross?

[davesaz]

I think there's definitely scum on Clem given no real counter.

I'm thinking Buj is more likely town or not svs with Clem.

Other team scum has entered my mind.

What's keeping me from going there full bore is that I never really understood why any of them were voting BuJaber in the first place.

I don't understand what or who you're talking about.

Emphasis added. I'm responding to your "not svs with Clem" with a "yeah but other team scum is possible".
Except that I don't know why anyone is scumreading BuJaber. This game is really sparse on the explanations.

[davesaz]

Who isn't shocked when someone presumably "suicides" in a game? I'd be more suspect of the people who weren't shocked, if any.

[davesaz]

Notice the RR in that.

[davesaz]

Or, ideally, third paRRty

Why is lynching 3Ps more ideal than lynching mafia? I just want to lynch scum.

And I catch an accidental pagetop messing up the reference.

[davesaz]

I didn't imply you wanted to Lynch RR, but if you don't then why are we still talking about Toog. Does it suck that he was forced to flip? Yes. Did I want him to flip today? Without a case predicated on Clemencys self vote...maybe. but that wasn't strong enough for me to want to flip him today.

Is it better that he flipped himself early rather than let town Duke it out on who's right or wrong, waste a large portion of the day, and miss out on hunting the ACTUAL scum connections? Imo yes.

No, him

hammering

actual scum, would have been the best thing for town, because then he’d be confirmed and still alive and we’d have lynched scum.

I don't know how many times it has to be said that Toog hammering would have done nothing to confirm him other than to prove he had a vote.
Beginning to wonder if this is scum trying to push a false narrative.

[davesaz]

Testing something.
VOTE: Hebichan

[davesaz]

Not a clue what that means.

[davesaz]

I didn't imply you wanted to Lynch RR, but if you don't then why are we still talking about Toog. Does it suck that he was forced to flip? Yes. Did I want him to flip today? Without a case predicated on Clemencys self vote...maybe. but that wasn't strong enough for me to want to flip him today.

Is it better that he flipped himself early rather than let town Duke it out on who's right or wrong, waste a large portion of the day, and miss out on hunting the ACTUAL scum connections? Imo yes.

No, him

hammering

actual scum, would have been the best thing for town, because then he’d be confirmed and still alive and we’d have lynched scum.

I don't know how many times it has to be said that Toog hammering would have done nothing to confirm him other than to prove he had a vote.
Beginning to wonder if this is scum trying to push a false narrative.

How is it a false narrative? It would have confirmed his role. By confirming his role, he gobal doc claim would have been far more likely to be believed.

My townlean on you just plummeted.

Toog votes, a hammer happens, day ends.

Nothing would have been

confirmed

by that.

I'm having trouble believing anyone can be this dense.
Even if you're trying to say that hammering

scum

would make him "town" that fails the most basic logic tests too by assuming that scum can't/won't hammer and ignorming the near certainty that the game is MB.
I guess proficiency at logic is not AI, but jury's out on whether refusing to listen to the superior logic of others is.

[davesaz]

Not a clue what that means.

When you say testing something, I imagine you testing some game mechanism related to your vote.

My post meant I didn't understand what the image meant to say. I don't infer things from images. Many people may remember the way I blew up at someone who posted most of a day in frog images only. Most who remember that will also remember what I flipped.

What I'm testing is whether my interpretation of something posted in the thread is correct. Though you're certainly welcome to imagine it could also have something to do with my role.

[davesaz]

I've literally never seen that happen before, but agree there isn't much else it can be.
VOTE: Creature
I have an idea of who else could be involved, but I'm gonna wait and see if anyone else connects dots.

[davesaz]

For the record I'm still willing to be on Hebichan as well.

[davesaz]

UNVOTE:

3230 was the core of the supposed scumslip. That phrasing looked really out of place.
I now believe the correct interpretation is "town got a guilty on someone who claimed VT which makes this the other team's goon because that is the same as the fakeclaim given to Chick/Clemency".
It's a stretch to think that multiple teams even have corresponding roles, and a bigger stretch to think the fakeclaims would be symmetric.
But it's consistent for town Creature to say something like that.

I don't think I have ever seen a legit scumslip of this type. I have a vague impression that the people who point that kind of thing out tend to be scum more often than town, but sadly I have not been keeping notes on it.

VOTE: Hebichan

[davesaz]

According to rule 8, that was at most 2 town flips and at least 2 non-town, given that 2 town had already flipped.
It is possible that up to all 4 flips could be non-town, of at least 2 different factions.

[davesaz]

@tails, That may be worth questioning.

@Mod: The anti-town part of rule 8 can be read two ways, limit 2 total anti-town (faction not being a factor) or limit 2 for any given anti-town faction. Which is it?

[davesaz]

VLA for about 36 hours, going camping and no idea if I'll have cell service

[davesaz]

I think I missed some pages on VLA but would need to look to be sure.
Has someone claimed to receive results which would have come from Alonzo? I haven't been looking closely for that.

[davesaz]

davesaz -- his comment about cheeky has me thinking; feel a little bit like he's specifically trying to hunt group scum while not really getting on anyone's radar

-DVa

I have a feeling this is another logic fail.
This post?

I'm voting preferably outside the Chickadee wagon

You do get that this is multiball right? I may be biased but it's more likely there are scum ON the wagon with how long it was a thing for and how frozen Clemency was, giving no reads or analysis near the end.

Other team scum wouldn't make this post.
Same team or town would.

SK's are "other team" -- it's a team of one, but still a team. When doing VCA in multiball, whether 2 groups or 1 group +SK, generally speaking "other team" looks like town.
The correct way to interpret my post was that I didn't expect a other team player to say that scum are on the wagon because other team are more likely to be there.
It turns out I'm wrong about that both factually and strategically. Group scum know if their faction is there or not, and therefore have motivation to suggest ON the wagon if they are not.
The new interpretation of this post given flips is that it is likely that Cheeky team are not on the Chick/Clemency wagon, or if there are any on the wagon they are heavily townread.
So off that wagon is indeed a good place to look.

Pedit: The shameless plug is going to get quite annoying if you keep it up.

[davesaz]

EBWOP: Generally speaking I was thinking that other team looks like town for VCA -- which is true but doesn't apply to what they say about the wagon.

[davesaz]

I'd like some time to read please. I believe profii but would like to look through Gamma's ISO to see if I can pick up on it separately. Consider me voting in spirit.

Amzela, how closely have you been looking at the last 2-3 pages?

[davesaz]

According to a working theory I have on how to identify town!Gamma, this ISO is coming up a big negative.

[davesaz]

j/w but do SK and Mafia want to kill underdogs?

Things that increase KPN are generally good for scum (including SK) and things that reduce it are generally good for town.
If underdogs have fewer members, which sounds right flavor wise but we have no way of knowing, then a known underdog should be a town priority.
Bona fide SK are also town priority, if we had an actual target and not just an inferred one.
I'm curious why this is a point to make right now though.

[davesaz]

Did I mention that Gamma's ISO comes up not town according to a work-in-progress method I have for reading him? Giving full details would reduce the usability of the tell, but I can say there is something specific lacking from his game which has been present the past several times I've seen him as town.

[davesaz]

I tend to believe FL's role change more than BuJ's JK claim.

[davesaz]

I'm a VT.
Bunch of stuff falling into place but I haven't had a chance to review to find out what it means.

[davesaz]

Good enough for me.
VOTE: Tails

[davesaz]

We had the game won up to that one bad vig shot.