Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game


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Post Post #99 (isolation #0) » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:22 pm

Post by Fortian »

Hey awesome people!

Have you read the first few pages of this game and are now thinking "Oh man so many posts! Why did I sign up to this?"
Are you already feeling disillusioned from the usual RVS process of people doing ridiculous claim things and voting people so that they look like they're SERIOUS BUSINESS when really they have no idea what they're doing either?
Or are you in fact just really super duper uber excited and are trying to hold yourself back from posting lots but kind of failing?

Well guess what? That's right! It's
Regfan
DV here and I'm going to make everything amazing!

Spoiler:
Image

I like to think that here Sylvester Stallone is actually parodying the ridiculousness (and sexistness) of telling someone to "man up".

Hmm maybe I'm over thinking it.

Yeah I'm probably over thinking it.



Just kidding!

Spoiler:
Image



But you know what? That's okay! Because Regfan probably does know what he's doing and he'll be here to post uhhh.... at some point!

--

Anyway, I've read the game up until now and honestly there's not really anything that jumps out at me. I'll probably read over things again in an hour or two and express some sort of opinion because I probably should.

-DV (obviously)
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Post Post #111 (isolation #1) » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:16 pm

Post by Fortian »

VOTE: profii

- DV
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Post Post #136 (isolation #2) » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:02 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 126, profii wrote:Let’s see if he wants to help us with those hurt tags
I feel you're making this out to be a lot more significant than it actually is.
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Post Post #162 (isolation #3) » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:03 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 160, profii wrote:
In post 136, Fortian wrote:
In post 126, profii wrote:Let’s see if he wants to help us with those hurt tags
I feel you're making this out to be a lot more significant than it actually is.
Silly me, suggesting ways for people to be to town

:facepalm:
Okay?

-DV
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Post Post #588 (isolation #4) » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:38 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 500, Tails wrote:
In post 493, davesaz wrote:
In post 485, Tails wrote:
Spoiler: Profii made a list
In post 407, profii wrote:Let's see if I can do this, I'm gonna quickly flick through isos and sort into 3 categories if i can.


more towny than scum:
DrewVa (DVa & Nancy Drew 39)
farside
Alchemist21
Varsoon
Gamma Emerald
Thor665
hebichan

Too early to tell:
Flavor Leaf
Malakitty
RCEnigma
Toogeloo
BuJaber
davesaz
Chickadee
DrippingGoofball
CheekyTeeky
Fortian (DeasVail & Regfan)
Majiffy
Amzela


more scummy than town:
Creature
Reasonably Rational (Drixx & Cerb)
Tails
Wisdom
pinturicchio
BrightEyedFish

VOTE: RR


@Profii: I think you're off when it comes to your scum list. Except maybe Fishy. But yeah...need to sharpen up those reads dude.
I'm a little skeptical of full lists this early in such a large game. What are your thoughts on that aspect of Profii's post?
I think Creature, RR, and Wisdom are more in their town range than scum atm. Not my first picks for putting on a scum list, especially over that large null area. I might get onboard with Fishy, but I haven't seen too much of him. Pint is a townread of mine, and I think he should be obv. town enough. And I'm me, so while I appreciate being put this low for lynch purposes, I also know that given my actual role and the company I'm being placed with, this list just feels off.

But given that Profii's list
is
controversial, I think he has a good chance of being town here.
There are many leaps in logic here based on assumptions that I am uncomfortable with!
In post 539, Tails wrote:
In post 534, DrewVa wrote: Who do you think is scum here?
If I had to choose between you and Wisdom? I'd choose you. Other than that, I'm sheeping Thorsoon on RCE, because I think there's some weight there. Other than that, just waiting to see what shakes out. Reads should be clearer by the end of the day.
So you're using your reads to justify other reads, whilst also acknowledging that your reads are not super strong at this point?

-DV
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Post Post #597 (isolation #5) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:27 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 589, Tails wrote:What are your reads on the following then?
Creature
RR
Wisdom
Pinti
Fishy
We lean scum on Wisdom, lean town on Pinti and don't have properly formed reads on the rest.

Apologies for the delay. Reg and I have just finished our READS SYNC sesh
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Post Post #600 (isolation #6) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:35 am

Post by Fortian »

Tails, it's okay.

- DV
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Post Post #606 (isolation #7) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:59 am

Post by Fortian »

In my experience it's pretty common for someone to have a lot of posts but nothing that really gives a strong indication of alignment either way, so no, I don't have a problem with a big null list.

But I also don't think you know what "leaps in logic" I was referring to, and my post in response to you was by no means meant as a personal attack, or even a scumread! My main issue was with the conclusion that profii was probably town because of their scum list being "controversial" which I really didn't feel it was, and definitely not to the degree that it would be reason to consider them town. I also questioned your reaction to profii's other scumreads and what it could mean about profii's alignment, given that, as you said, reads will be a lot clearer by the end of the day.

When it comes down to it though, my post in response to your posts was an exaggerated attempt to engage, and did not have much basis behind it. This is the dance that we dance in mafia. :)

PEdit: I disagree that Profii's list makes them town, but I do respect your interpretation. I would argue that a reads list such as that can look like "work" without actually having much effort put into it. And my initial scumread on Profii largely came from their early posts, particularly their first posts appearing to be an attempt to "fit in" rather than natural conversation, as well as their response to me. I do not have feelings as strong in regards to profii's later posts though.

PEdit 2: Honestly the points were not that important to me. For what it's worth, I don't scumread you. I would say you're probably town.

- DV
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Post Post #731 (isolation #8) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:19 am

Post by Fortian »

Don't think too many people here know me, but those that do should know I'm intending on taking a fairly backseat role to DV in this game, mostly just sharing reads & thoughts with him and letting him do the bulk of the posting, at least for the foreseeable future while I'm juggling some other things.

Discussion about roles that might / might not be in the game & mass-claiming and things like that should really stop; there's definitely a time when that's going to be handy (when we've got flips / much later in the game), but right now is not it. It's just going to clog the thread and distract from actual scumhunting.


Do want to get down where I'm ~roughly~ at right now while I've managed to get some spare time though.

I've got a pretty strong town read on Toogeloo, discussed it with DV & he's at the same place I am with this read too. It's mostly based around Toogs commenting about his role, think it fits very naturally in a "Town that got a shit role" type of attitude, I can run this through in more depth if needed.

Also got a pretty strong town read on DrewVa, I think the freak out about being scum read and the whole "Don't take being misread" type thing comes across as very genuine here and differs pretty greatly from the way she handled being scum read in the scum game I've observed of hers. I get the impression she really believes in her reasoning re; the Wisdom scum read. Again, if you need I can go into this in more detail.

Similarly pretty confident that Pint is town here, know it's a read that DV feels very good about too; it's one I'll let him explain/run through more, but for me I really like his commenting and phrasing about RR moving the game out of RVS and the interaction with Tails about Profi even more.

I feel very sure that Tails is town here, mostly from his interaction and posting with DV last night; isn't something I've got to speak with DV about yet but I don't really see scum taking that sort of angle or trying to get into a discussion like that there, particularly find super super townie.

Got really weak town leans on Farside, Gamma and Varsoon too but yeah, based on fairly flimsy reasoning that I'd rather not go into.

Cheeky / Chickadee / Wisdom & Hebichan is mostly where I'd be looking at the moment for scum but DV thinks I might be misreading Hebi. Can follow DV's scum read on Profli but I'm mosty ~eh~ overall on the slot, dislike a lot of his opening posting and find it forced but have liked his latter stuff.

TLDR; Toog/Drew/Pint/Tails are very probably all town here, that's about all I've got that I'm happy with so far.

- Regfan
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Post Post #830 (isolation #9) » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:59 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 760, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 758, hebichan wrote:Creature literally said he had a test today.
Same question for you. Do you think Wisdom is a good candidate to push right now?
Hey Pintu, I've been enjoying your posts and thought processes so far! But I am interested in why you imply to hebichan that Wisdom is not a good candidate to push.
In post 767, Tails wrote:
In post 606, Fortian wrote:I disagree that Profii's list makes them town, but I do respect your interpretation. I would argue that a reads list such as that can look like "work" without actually having much effort put into it. And my initial scumread on Profii largely came from their early posts, particularly their first posts appearing to be an attempt to "fit in" rather than natural conversation, as well as their response to me. I do not have feelings as strong in regards to profii's later posts though.
I would think scum would try to make a more complete reads list. That would be looking like work too, but also look like a larger contribution. I didn't see that with profii's list.
Fair point. I think that as either alignment, people will be limited by the amount of effort they want to put in. Whether they are town or scum, profii did not put extra effort beyond what the simple reads list post required (and fair enough tbh). I just don't see the reads list itself as all that relevant to profii's alignment.
In post 779, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 777, Wisdom wrote:gamma talk to us
any reads?
Meh probably not beyond what I’ve described
Given this is multiball barring A50 making a red herring, I’m favoring scumhunting over townhunting rn
Interestingly, we are more inclined to townhunt, but that could more be explained by different styles of play I suppose.

--

I do not explicitly townread profii yet, however I don't feel the same way that I did before.

Time for a new vote.

UNVOTE: profii
VOTE: Chickadee
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Post Post #833 (isolation #10) » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:29 am

Post by Fortian »

I did notice that post from Cheeky but did not really relate it to profii's list post.

Do you think it to be significant?

-DV
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Post Post #985 (isolation #11) » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:51 am

Post by Fortian »

Just going to get some ~quick thoughts~ down.

In agreement with RR in that I think Profis reaction towards the dayvig thing here comes from scum significantly more often than not; can sort of see it being a situation where he'd sort of been told to make a post from his partners and ended up with that whole "If I'm not dead we should lynch Varsoon" which I don't really believe to be a real thought at all, particularly since he'd town read Varsoon earlier on and it not being a real dayvig can easily fit under reaction-test here.

The whole DrewVa v RR thing is a fucking chore to read through, in fact Drew v Anyone is just incredibly infuriating to have to read. Even moreso since I'm very confident that Drews town here and think that they're still just being a huge distraction to any real relevant scumhunting. Can I ask that people involved in this at least try and minimise their focus here for a bit, we're ~3 days into the game, it's at ~40 pages and about ~20 of those are about the one player in a 26 player game. Really unhelpful now, really unhelpful for those trying to catch up, and going to make rereading near impossible.

I'm pretty much working with a town pool of Toog/Drew/Tails/Pint/Varsoon/RR at the moment. I've got a weakish town read on Amzela that I'm going to want DV to sanity check me on, but is mostly based on thinking their stance and angle re; the RR vote is unlikely to come from them as scum here.

-Regfan
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Post Post #987 (isolation #12) » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:55 am

Post by Fortian »

Also pretty happy with DV's vote on Chickadee here, think her posting so far is very devoid of actual content/stances/game-related things and feels like she's mostly only comfortable to chime in on NAI type things or things related directly to herself here.

Mostly a note for myself, but I need to devote some time to actually look at RCE/FL/BEF properly, it's something I've mostly been putting off. If anyone has a strong read on either of those players either direction, I'd really appreciate you actually running through it for me.

-Regfan
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Post Post #989 (isolation #13) » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:00 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 986, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 985, Fortian wrote:I'm very confident that Drews town here
Help me see it.
Can do, I'll carve out some time this weekend and run through that read alongside with some of my other stronger town reads.

If you get some time to do some casual reading, this game is a fairly good read re; feeling like this situation and this game is miles away from how Nancy played as scum there; tonally/activitiy-wise/frustration level, it's just not even remotely the same and the way she went about handling Lissa there (Someone that scum read her when she was scum) just isn't even remotely comparable to people in this game.

-Regfan
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Post Post #1084 (isolation #14) » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:29 am

Post by Fortian »

Regfan and I think profii is probably town.
In post 947, CheekyTeeky wrote:Ok prepare to be amazed:

{Farside/Alonzo, Fortain, Profii}
{Fish, Chick, Gamma, Hebichan, Pint, RCE, Tails, Varsoon, Wisdom, RR}
{Creature, Davesaz, Malakitty}
{BuJaber, Flavorleaf, Alchemist, Majiffy, Thor}
{Amzela, DrippingGoofball, DrewVa}
Also, why are we in the top tier? I feel like our posting so far makes us a slot that's easy to "townread" when constructing a reads list, but my expectation is that town would be more likely to be a bit more skeptical. Especially given that both Regfan and I have been on the site for a long time and I don't feel we've exactly amazed here.
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Post Post #1182 (isolation #15) » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:31 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1177, RCEnigma wrote:So Chickadee, I see you're voting creature for lack of presence. Why his lack of presence specifically? And not say, Drip, or majiffy, or thor.
You don't have to respond to this until after Chick responds to (or even at all I guess since I'm not exactly asking a question), but I'm surprised that out of all the questions you could ask anyone about anything, you've chosen to ask Chickadee this question.

-DV
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Post Post #1183 (isolation #16) » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:33 pm

Post by Fortian »

Also, Regfan may feel differently, but I'm personally not too thrilled by the DGB wagon.

-DV
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Post Post #1187 (isolation #17) » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:41 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1185, Malakitty wrote:
.......

Ugh toog that just ruined my TR on you

:\
Oh?

This seems an odd reason to lose a TR
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Post Post #1205 (isolation #18) » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:55 pm

Post by Fortian »

Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?
In post 1190, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1182, Fortian wrote:
In post 1177, RCEnigma wrote:So Chickadee, I see you're voting creature for lack of presence. Why his lack of presence specifically? And not say, Drip, or majiffy, or thor.
You don't have to respond to this until after Chick responds to (or even at all I guess since I'm not exactly asking a question), but I'm surprised that out of all the questions you could ask anyone about anything, you've chosen to ask Chickadee this question.

-DV
Should I not engage chickadee?
The reason for my surprise was that the answer to your question seemed fairly clear from what Chickadee had already posted.
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Post Post #1213 (isolation #19) » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:40 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1208, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1187, Fortian wrote:
In post 1185, Malakitty wrote:
.......

Ugh toog that just ruined my TR on you

:\
Oh?

This seems an odd reason to lose a TR
Didn't want to say anything at the time, but I felt the same way. Why do you think is odd? I felt like he was remarking his alibi
A large part of our reason for townreading Toog is how he has reacted to his role. It made sense for him to claim his role to the town, but it appeared that even after that Toog was still struggling to work out how to best play given the limitations of his role in a way that was pretty transparent and much less likely to come from scum imo. It also makes total sense that Toog would be interested in the fact that his role is actually based on an existing wiki role because he’s clearly been quite puzzled by the whole thing.

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Post Post #1437 (isolation #20) » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:03 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1238, Chickadee wrote:
In post 1205, Fortian wrote:Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?
I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.
What is it about the post that you think makes that post more likely to come from scum?

Right now i'm very worried that your initial post about it was a vague attempt at sounding useful without actually coming from a genuine place. Especially given that I think your explanations since don't really make sense of why you'd jump in to defend Mala like that.

--

Also I seriously don't get all the hysteria surrounding Creature's posting. That was all more anti-town than Creature's posting was imo.

-DV
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Post Post #1443 (isolation #21) » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:34 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1439, Chickadee wrote:
In post 1437, Fortian wrote:
In post 1238, Chickadee wrote:
In post 1205, Fortian wrote:Chick, when you’re able, what is your read on Toog and why?
I'm town reading Toog. I think the way they initially claimed was genuine. I think it came from a place of wanting to be upfront about they wouldn't be voting. There hasn't been a lot of redeeming posts since then, but I understand the frustration.

I also don't hold it against anyone to find their "oh it exists" post scummy though.
What is it about the post that you think makes that post more likely to come from scum?

Right now i'm very worried that your initial post about it was a vague attempt at sounding useful without actually coming from a genuine place. Especially given that I think your explanations since don't really make sense of why you'd jump in to defend Mala like that.

--

Also I seriously don't get all the hysteria surrounding Creature's posting. That was all more anti-town than Creature's posting was imo.

-DV
All I meant was that I don't scum read Mala for the conclusion she made.
This is very different from your original post. I didn’t mention anything about scumreading Mala for the conclusion she made. Nor do I believe you would make the post you did as town if your only thought was “I don’t scumread Mala for the conclusion she made.”

Essentially, I don’t think you’re town.
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Post Post #1513 (isolation #22) » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:37 pm

Post by Fortian »

The thing with Thor is that I (and others) know he's better than this, and he knows that I (and others) know he's better than this.

Do I think he could be scum?

For sure.

But for me, at this point, the fact that he's not trying is not good enough reason to lynch him over someone like Chickadee who is (imo) actively scummy.

(For what it's worth I also am not a fan of Majiffy here, but our vote remains on Chickadee at this time)

- DV
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Post Post #1584 (isolation #23) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:04 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 1549, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1548, BuJaber wrote:And reading his ISO I'm not so sure RCE is scum anymore but will revisit if majiffy flips scum.

So of the people I wanted to focus on in post ..

RR, profii - probably town
RCE, Mala, Varsoon - scumlean
Majiffy, hebichan, chickadee - scum
Forgot fortian - scumlean.. short posts I didn't like.. didn't read the walls, hated the entrance as I've stated previously.
Ooooo! I’m excited now.

Our “walls” aren’t very long and not very many. If you think we might be scum, wouldn’t it make sense to read them to see if any further scumminess lies within?
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Post Post #1585 (isolation #24) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:06 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 1557, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1546, BuJaber wrote:Mala's ISO is pretty empty, but hebichan is even worse. There's barely any analysis here. Even when posting a case she seems to give herself an out by offering an argument for why they could be wrong.
This is probably the best reason to scumread her and is exactly how Varsoon pegged my scumgame. Gives a convenient defense when X flips as a mislynch when they can point back to a post the argued the counterpoints in.

Could you post a few examples from where you got that read?
Also I don't mind flipping Majiffy either he's practically a DGB copy at this point with more sarcasm peppered in.

The only thing stopping me from flipping wagons is that I agree with Majiffy, Chickadee has scum equity. If DGB flips scum chickadee probably does too.
I don’t understand the link between DGB and Chick.

-DV
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Post Post #1586 (isolation #25) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:09 am

Post by Fortian »

Also I’m appreciative of the Chickadee votes!!
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Post Post #1607 (isolation #26) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:27 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1592, Majiffy wrote:Oh look, ten pages in 12 hours.

What joy overcomes me
This is intriguing to me, as there had only been 2 pages of posts in the 12 hours prior to this post. Not sure what it means in regards to the slot’s alignment (although I would probably place majiffy on the scummier side of null on my reads spectrum).
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Post Post #1614 (isolation #27) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:22 pm

Post by Fortian »

Nero, Id be keen to talk with you about Chick and why you think the wagon is bad.

-DV
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Post Post #1821 (isolation #28) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:25 pm

Post by Fortian »

I feel like there is significantly more to the Chickadee suspicion than what has been expressed in the thread, so it saddens me that a common perception is that she's being wagoned for not doing much. Granted, I haven't even properly expressed my reasoning for thinking Chickadee is scum, so I will do so now.

A summary of my suspicion of Chickadee is that I think a lot of her posting is “trying to look like she’s helpful and doing stuff” without actually having much in the way of genuine thought process behind her posts.
If you look at her early posts, she's quick to comment on things in a "helpful sounding" manner, with the odd probing question here to look like she's being an inquisitive townie, but she doesn't ever go anywhere with any of her questions, nor is there any evidence that she actually cares.

I feel like is a good example of a post where Chickadee is obviously trying to look like she's doing something, but again, no evidence that the answers to her questions here will actually influence her reads etc.

Chick's comment on Mala losing her townread on Toog in also reads as inauthentic. As revealed later, she thought Toogeloo was town but didn't personally scumread Mala for losing her townread on Toog. Yet none of her posting really explained why she made the comment to begin with, supporting my belief that much of Chickadee's posting is saying stuff for the purpose of looking like she's doing stuff without actually thinking or caring about where her questioning leads or what people's alignments might be.

I feel that the Creature read has been talked about to a sufficient degree. I don't personally really mind that she was using his lack of posting as an initial reason to scumread him. That alone could come from either alignment. However, I do agree that her response when he does start posting just doesn't fit. And when she's pressured on the fact that Creature is posting, she unvotes, however with the comment that she still doesn't like the content that he is posting. In this situation, I would expect town to continue voting Creature. Sure, Chickadee said that she would unvote if he started posting, but she has expressed that she still suspects the slot. Why not just say "yeah he's posting but I still think he might be scum". The unvote seems like pandering to the town in order to not look too bad, rather than a genuine thing.

Lastly, my impression was that Chickadee appeared to be trying very hard to post in a composed and self-assured manner, with a lack of vulnerability that I find concerning given that her actual content was all over the place. I would have expected town-Chick to be a bit more open with her struggles to keep up with the game or her difficulty in forming reads or whatever, given that, if Chickadee was town here, she obviously was finding it difficult to engage with the game. But obviously I don't think she was town.

--

I'm pretty keen to see more from Clemency because, while I am more suspicious of that slot than anyone else, I'm not totally confident that Chick was scum. I have written a lot of words in this post, but my case is not as strong as the length of the post implies imo. Still, I'm very supportive of votes on the slot and would probably quite happily lynch the slot.

- DV
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Post Post #1935 (isolation #29) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:10 am

Post by Fortian »

Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV
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Post Post #1937 (isolation #30) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:15 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 1935, Fortian wrote:Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV
Clarification. I think clem’s posting is scummy. Realised that was unclear
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Post Post #2041 (isolation #31) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:42 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 1954, Reasonably Rational wrote:
In post 1940, Amzela wrote:
In post 1937, Fortian wrote:
In post 1935, Fortian wrote:Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV
Clarification. I think clem’s posting is scummy. Realised that was unclear
Which posts are you talking about?
is the most concerning post from me.

He states that he understands the wagon because of how inactive the slot was, which just seems incredibly fake to me. It comes across as trying to sound conciliatory and reasonable, but since when did inactivity alone justify someone being the leading wagon? Why would Clem, as town who knows Chickadee was town, support the idea of town wagoning her on inactivity alone?

The fact that it's followed later by makes it kind of worse imo? It fits my interpretation of Clem's posts being designed to look "transparent" and "carefree" without actually coming from genuine thought processes.
In post 1952, Varsoon wrote:It also bugs me that Clemency came in to decry their wagon and then kinda ghosted but I guess it hasn't been that long?
Or are they posting a bunch and I just didn't realize?
I don't think it's been that long at all, the game is just moving fast generally speaking I think? They're not posting all that much though...like more than Chickadee, but nothing super notable. Their content has been basically empty though. Pretty bad scum defense attempt if they are scum, and my standard BoP for strangers makes me feel that's more likely to come from town just not feeling like dealing with the shit their predecessor left for them.

-Cerb
Honestly I think what you're using as a defence for Clemency is likely not too significant, and if anything is more reason to think them scum. If Clem's town, they don't need to care that much about the wagon on them. Town's objective is to find scum. Not post a flurry of posts that don't really mean anything and then disappear once it seems like that's not lessening the suspicion on them. Scum's agenda in this case is, first and foremost, to not get lynched. True, good scum will push through and continue "scumhunting" and trying to look town, but good town will also continue to be engaged with the game. Obviously the apathy could come from both alignments, but imo if anything scum are more likely to get disheartened from getting nowhere with their efforts to look town.

- DV
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Post Post #2042 (isolation #32) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:43 pm

Post by Fortian »

Sorry! Stuffed up the quote tags. This is what it should look like.
In post 1940, Amzela wrote:
In post 1937, Fortian wrote:
In post 1935, Fortian wrote:Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV
Clarification. I think clem’s posting is scummy. Realised that was unclear
Which posts are you talking about?
is the most concerning post from me.

He states that he understands the wagon because of how inactive the slot was, which just seems incredibly fake to me. It comes across as trying to sound conciliatory and reasonable, but since when did inactivity alone justify someone being the leading wagon? Why would Clem, as town who knows Chickadee was town, support the idea of town wagoning her on inactivity alone?

The fact that it's followed later by makes it kind of worse imo? It fits my interpretation of Clem's posts being designed to look "transparent" and "carefree" without actually coming from genuine thought processes.
In post 1954, Reasonably Rational wrote:
In post 1952, Varsoon wrote:It also bugs me that Clemency came in to decry their wagon and then kinda ghosted but I guess it hasn't been that long?
Or are they posting a bunch and I just didn't realize?
I don't think it's been that long at all, the game is just moving fast generally speaking I think? They're not posting all that much though...like more than Chickadee, but nothing super notable. Their content has been basically empty though. Pretty bad scum defense attempt if they are scum, and my standard BoP for strangers makes me feel that's more likely to come from town just not feeling like dealing with the shit their predecessor left for them.

-Cerb
Honestly I think what you're using as a defence for Clemency is likely not too significant, and if anything is more reason to think them scum. If Clem's town, they don't need to care that much about the wagon on them. Town's objective is to find scum. Not post a flurry of posts that don't really mean anything and then disappear once it seems like that's not lessening the suspicion on them. Scum's agenda in this case is, first and foremost, to not get lynched. True, good scum will push through and continue "scumhunting" and trying to look town, but good town will also continue to be engaged with the game. Obviously the apathy could come from both alignments, but imo if anything scum are more likely to get disheartened from getting nowhere with their efforts to look town.

- DV
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Post Post #2113 (isolation #33) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:25 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 2084, DrewVa wrote:
In post 2041, Fortian wrote:
In post 1954, Reasonably Rational wrote:
In post 1940, Amzela wrote:
In post 1937, Fortian wrote:
In post 1935, Fortian wrote:Clemency’s posting has only kind of supported my scumread on Chickadee imo.

In the meantime, RR you worry me.

-DV
Clarification. I think clem’s posting is scummy. Realised that was unclear
Which posts are you talking about?
is the most concerning post from me.

He states that he understands the wagon because of how inactive the slot was, which just seems incredibly fake to me. It comes across as trying to sound conciliatory and reasonable, but since when did inactivity alone justify someone being the leading wagon? Why would Clem, as town who knows Chickadee was town, support the idea of town wagoning her on inactivity alone?

The fact that it's followed later by makes it kind of worse imo? It fits my interpretation of Clem's posts being designed to look "transparent" and "carefree" without actually coming from genuine thought processes.
In post 1952, Varsoon wrote:It also bugs me that Clemency came in to decry their wagon and then kinda ghosted but I guess it hasn't been that long?
Or are they posting a bunch and I just didn't realize?
I don't think it's been that long at all, the game is just moving fast generally speaking I think? They're not posting all that much though...like more than Chickadee, but nothing super notable. Their content has been basically empty though. Pretty bad scum defense attempt if they are scum, and my standard BoP for strangers makes me feel that's more likely to come from town just not feeling like dealing with the shit their predecessor left for them.

-Cerb
Honestly I think what you're using as a defence for Clemency is likely not too significant, and if anything is more reason to think them scum. If Clem's town, they don't need to care that much about the wagon on them. Town's objective is to find scum. Not post a flurry of posts that don't really mean anything and then disappear once it seems like that's not lessening the suspicion on them. Scum's agenda in this case is, first and foremost, to not get lynched. True, good scum will push through and continue "scumhunting" and trying to look town, but good town will also continue to be engaged with the game. Obviously the apathy could come from both alignments, but imo if anything scum are more likely to get disheartened from getting nowhere with their efforts to look town.

- DV
Not commenting on Clem/Chick slot here. I can say that being wagoned totally does affect my game and makes me not care if the wagon is peristant or continues long enough. I was in a game awhile ago offsite, where I did everything possible to convince everyone I was town and it either made no difference or it made everything worse. I actually lost complete confidence in being able to convince town to accurately read me, that I became totally discouraged and gave up. So, I freely admit that what you’re saying wouldn’t apply to me at all. I even got so mad, I temp self-voted in protest.
My main point is that it can happen in both alignments tbf.
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Post Post #2140 (isolation #34) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:16 pm

Post by Fortian »

Regfan unfortunately has been pretty busy and has only been skimming except for specific things that I want his opinion on, BUT he agrees with me on Clemency.

I’m really eager to get this a lot lynched guys
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Post Post #2141 (isolation #35) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:17 pm

Post by Fortian »

Slot, not a lot

But it sort of works
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Post Post #2142 (isolation #36) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:18 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 2135, hebichan wrote:But also I am actively pushing for a tails lynch, please lynch tails.
Reg and I have a pretty decent townread on Tails. A big part of it is the way he responded to my questioning of him earlier in the game. Can explain more when not at work if required.
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Post Post #2301 (isolation #37) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:05 am

Post by Fortian »

In post 2272, Clemency wrote:
In post 2271, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2264, Clemency wrote:but it's awful when i have to replace in to a polar opposite of myself
How does this possibly matter?
because there's a certain implication already on the slot, so it'll always look off when it suddenly 180's
I’m really sorry Clemency, but you really need to be lynched imo :(
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Post Post #2378 (isolation #38) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:23 pm

Post by Fortian »

DV's mostly taking charge of this slot, if we're still around on D2 I should actually have time to start devoting to reading through this properly and putting down some more detailed thoughts. But for now I actually feel very good about the Clemecy slot flipping scum, I think his attitude and reaction to replacing in and seeing the pressure towards the slot fits scum that doesn't know how to get out of this position, I think there's a severe lack of any real solving or scumhunting and I don't think this is how town react towards being run up at all. I'm pretty content with actually lynching in the next ~24/48 hours or so, not really a huge reason to run it down to the deadline here when the result seems relatively inevitable and obvious anyway.



Just some random ~thoughts~ I guess.

Pint & DrewVa are my strongest town reads by a long margin, would bet the game on both slots being town here and neither should ever be lynched.

I'm decently confident that Varsoon, Profii, Tails and Gamma are town at the moment. None are on the same level as the people above but I'd recommend people put this grouping of players to the side for the time being; revisit/relook at later with flips and their posts ect but yeah, probably town.

Still think Toogs town but if he is then I really would like to / need to see some actual thoughts and solving from him, I get the whole "Can't vote, minimal influence on what's going on" type of thing particularly initially, but it's not something that can be maintained throughout the game like that at all and the longer it keeps going the weaker my read there is getting. Pretty much if you're town dude I need you to start playing the game soon.

I think there's been far too much focus/commenting on DGB for what her ISO is, it's mostly a series of useless posts but I don't really see much that's alignment indicative for her at all, fairly nullish on her. Think if we're looking at Chickadee!Scum like I think is the case, and if this isn't multiball (Probably is though) and it's one scum team there's a decent chance scum are trying to redirect focus towards her here, is something I'd suggest people re-look at later if that situation is actually the case, but otherwise yeah if it's multiball then this is probably nothing.

My town read on the RR slot is effectively dead, really concerned about their progressions of reads/thoughts and the lack of them.

That's about all I can think of that I wanted to get down right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

- Regfan
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Post Post #2380 (isolation #39) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 2379, DrewVa wrote:@Fortian, what about Bujaber, what is your read on him?
Weak town read on him; can see some genuine progressions inside his reads and can see some questioning/actual solving attempts for him to try and resolve some of his question mark reads, example being his questioning people re; your meta/aggressiveness. I also kind of like his read on us here and think it's one that scum are slightly less likely to take. Only real concern I've got with his slot have to do with the way he moved on to Clemency here felt like it was a self-pres vote that was made to look like an actual read but there's some mentions of him scum reading Chickadee earlier on which makes that less problematic.

- Regfan
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Post Post #2417 (isolation #40) » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:45 am

Post by Fortian »

Think the selfhammer attempt is a scum claim. Can someone vote Clemency in case Hebis misspelling vote doesn't count so we can actually move on here please. Also DV gets no credit for this scum lynch, dudes still a noob.
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Post Post #2651 (isolation #41) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:05 am

Post by Fortian »

Oh jesus christ, why the fuck would you ever vote or run up Toog here.

People are fucking dreadful.
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Post Post #2655 (isolation #42) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:15 am

Post by Fortian »

Clemency fucking hardcore spewed the Toog slot as not W/Q with him. Should have been one of the last, if not the last person focused on after yesterday. Geneuinly fucking frustrated with people's sheer inability to even remotely play this game even remotely properly. Was intending on starting to effort this day phase but think I'll just meet up with DV give him my thoughts and peace now.
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Post Post #2662 (isolation #43) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:28 am

Post by Fortian »

VOTE: Reasonably Rational
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Post Post #2676 (isolation #44) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:55 am

Post by Fortian »

DrewVa, Pint, RCE and Dave are always town here.
Tails, Profii, BuJaber, Nero and Creature are probably town.

That list of Toog voters pretty much includes a decent portion of the PoE I'm looking at anyway, happy to take out the garbage there first.
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Post Post #2683 (isolation #45) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:07 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 2677, profii wrote:So if DGB is going to convince me she’s town then I really need to understand that TR
I think it's almost a certainty that she's a third party here, most likely a jester. Don't really view her as the type that would play the "I'm a TP" as scum outright here either, so I'm pretty much ignoring her and actually focusing on finding scum for the time being.
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Post Post #2696 (isolation #46) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:18 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 2695, Wisdom wrote:shes either town gambiting or 3p
no way shes scum just outing herself
Correct, with the odds of her being TP over town being like 95/5.

People need to stop getting fucking distracted and putting attention towards her here. She'll be dealt with later. Find scum.
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Post Post #2748 (isolation #47) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:28 pm

Post by Fortian »

@Pint - I don't think DGBs play here makes sense as scum, let alone some strong scum PR, her play here guatentees that she never endsgames, particularly in a power role heavy and kill heavy game. She's not scum, she'll be dealt with at night at some point for sure, end of.

Now talk to me about Nero, I've got a relatively strong town read on him here, partially meta based, the rest on him coming across as town who generally has no real idea what's going on, feel like his changes of opinion and thoughts on things fit with replacing in and trying to analyse a lot of information (albeit, poorly done). I think it's rather difficult for scum to sort of fake that sort of play. So what am I missing here? Convince me that I'm misreading him here. Also talk to me about your townish leans on RR and BFE since I think that's where we most likely find scum at the moment.
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Post Post #2766 (isolation #48) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:36 pm

Post by Fortian »

I think RR is scum

-DV
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Post Post #2797 (isolation #49) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 2784, Wisdom wrote:
In post 2766, Fortian wrote:I think RR is scum

-DV
nope
This is not going to convince me otherwise and you know that.

-DV
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Post Post #3019 (isolation #50) » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:54 pm

Post by Fortian »

I will probably talk more about our feelings on RR tomorrow sometime

-DV
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Post Post #3115 (isolation #51) » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:01 am

Post by Fortian »

I've changed my mind and I'm going to talk about my/our read on RR now.

Our townread on Nero is largely Regfan-lead, so he'd be much better off explaining that than me. We also both have concerns about Gamma despite an earlier townread on him.

However, it's Reasonably Rational that has my toes tingling.

It's Reasonably Rational that makes my palms all sweaty.

It's Reasonably Rational that inspires within me an insatiable lust for everyone's blood.

And here's why...

--

Part 1: Their Approach to Amzela


Now for this section, is important. Cerb does talk about how he is amazing at reading Amz which... okay sure we get it. But the key thing in this post is that he reveals his belief that Amz actually has reasonable experience in mafia and is probably quite competent. Keep this in mind for later.

Next in this story, we get to and , which I can only honestly describe as a bit of a freak-out. Cerb attempts to defend himself in an elaborate way that's honestly a bit belittling and feels like an effort to just throw a whole lot of smoke at the idea of lynching RR until that idea goes away.

"pedit: AMZELA TRY TO LYNCH US IF YOU THINK WE'RE SCUM. :) That's just how the game should be played. I mean, you'll fail(I would expect us to top out at 8 votes at this stage in the day, 4 from people who have already expressed some inclination to be opposed to us, and 4 from people who don't care/are scum), but it could be a good exercise. <3"

^What even is with this seriously?

Well I know what I think. I think it's scum bravado.

again just looks like an attempt to undermine the validity of Amz's read on them rather than actually talk things through with Amz in a sensible way. And is very inconsistent with ! There's also no need to undermine Amzela's read on them as town. However, if RR is scum, having Amz scumread them is actually a concern. People might think "Amzela is scumreading the person she's dating! That seems legit!" RR has to hope that he can discredit Amz enough that people don't listen to her scumread on them.

I also think comes across as very showy. I'm pretty sure town-Cerb here just lets Amz take her V/LA and asks her for thoughts when she's returned from V/LA. This post seems much more likely designed to make it really look like Cerb REALLY CARES about sorting the Amz slot because of course he would want to sort that slot right? But the post itself is pointless and honestly kind of annoying given that Amz has just said she's on V/LA until the 7th.

--

Part 2: Their Approach to Chickadee/Clemency


If I had to guess, I'd say that RR was scum with Chickadee/Clemency, but I wouldn't say that with much confidence. I am more confident in the fact that they are scum of some kind, whether it be with Chickadee/Clem or otherwise.

I think their approach to the Chick/Clem situation was pretty awkward. It could have been awkward because they were scum with Chick/Clem. It could have been awkward because they're just scum. Who knows? But it was pretty awkward.

Most concerning are posts like where he states he is waiting to hear Drixx's thoughts because he feels directionless, which honestly seems like an excuse to not engage with the Chick/Clem wagon in any kind of meaningful way. Particularly given that Cerb is not very hesitant to make thoughts/reads known during other periods of the game.

There is also where he gives a very half-hearted reason for not being excited about the Clem wagon.

"Pretty bad scum defense attempt if they are scum, and my standard BoP for strangers makes me feel that's more likely to come from town just not feeling like dealing with the shit their predecessor left for them."

... I am unconvinced.

Instead of doing anything useful or trying to actually work things out, the slot instead gets into an unproductive argument with DrewVa about why it was important for Toog to hammer. Sure, I agree, what DrewVa was saying didn't make complete sense. But DrewVa is someone that's a really easy pressure target for scum, because while DrewVa is veryveryvery likely town, if you argue with them in the right kind of way they will probably end up looking bad from it and you will look like you're doing ~stuff~. Win-win! My issue is that they didn't show nearly as much interest in actually working out whether the likely lynch was going to be on scum or not. Probably because they either didn't really care either way, or because they already knew.

--

Part 3: The Toogeloo Boogaloo


conveniently completely misses the possibility that Chickadee wasn't actually trying to link herself to Toogeloo in the previously quoted post, which was always going to be the most likely possibility.

is not good. I would be less concerned if RR just told Toogeloo to get himself modkilled. Instead we get this reasonable- and rational- sounding post that is pretty pointless because players are naturally not going to want to get themselves modkilled?

But the above things in isolation are not overly concerning. What is worse is the reaction afterwards.

is a really over-detailed explanation and reeks of over-compensating for the fact that they are obviously going to look bad after what happened.

It also should be noted that no-where in toog's role PM did it actually state that the day would continue after he was modkilled, nor did we have any reason to believe that.

again just seems like a show, and again over-compensation. 2614 implies they weren't sure what toog's alignment was. 2660 gives the impression that they had this massive scumread on toog and just absolutely can't believe that he was town. Which was it?

--

Please can we lynch them? It would be even more fun than lynching Chickadee/Clemency was. I promise!

-DV
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Post Post #3772 (isolation #52) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:00 pm

Post by Fortian »

I will catch up on everything this afternoon.

Please don’t flash lynch anyone

- DV
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Post Post #3804 (isolation #53) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:50 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 3744, Wisdom wrote:i still dislike gamma thor and amzela
I think theres at least one scum in rr/dave based on how cheeky put it
I dont like bu's obsession with dgb but I don't like dgb either
I dont like that fl didnt shoot someone scummy

bleh
I agree with not liking gamma, thor or amzela.

I think dave/rr are probably both town though.
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Post Post #3805 (isolation #54) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:56 pm

Post by Fortian »

I guess if I were to vote anyone I'd vote Gamma because my feelings on the slot are not great?

But I've got to confess I'm not very "in the zone" right now.

Plus Regfan and I agreed that if we were still alive today he would do some ISOs and I would just troll everyone.

So I reckon we should lynch Regfan!

- DV
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Post Post #3806 (isolation #55) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Post by Fortian »

Also I'm going to be all controversial and guess that this is Almost50 being all tricky in making this NOT multi-scum group.

You heard it here first!

- DV
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Post Post #3807 (isolation #56) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:59 pm

Post by Fortian »

Also to my fellow townies:

You do realise that BrightEyedFish is single-handedly responsible for 50% of the scum deaths so far.

50%

We all gotta pick up our game.

--

Okay I'm done now.
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Post Post #3809 (isolation #57) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:04 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 3803, Tails wrote:Also, what does a bus driver have to do with Gamma being scum?

VOTE: Reasonably Rational
Why do you personally think RR is scum, out of interest?

- DV
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Post Post #3866 (isolation #58) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:02 pm

Post by Fortian »

Not going to go into other than we have
strong
mechanical reasons that suggest that RR is town here.
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Post Post #3867 (isolation #59) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Post by Fortian »

I haven't read bits and pieces of D2/D3, not really going to bother to until later in the day phase but I know that DV's planning on catching up tonight and probably will ping me asking me to read some peoples ISO's and give him my thoughts then. My sort of ~rough~ place where I'm at based on the bits and pieces I have read though is that Flavor Leaf / RR / DrewVa / Dave / Pint are pretty much the town reads I'm pretty happy with. Still kind of think Profii / BuJaber are town, kind of haven't really town read Wisdoms play but have nodded along with most of what he's saying and aren't really interested in considering there at all. Kinda think Varsoon/Tails might be worth a re-look but other think all of DGB/Gamma/Thor/Amzela are people that are where the main focus should be.
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Post Post #3868 (isolation #60) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:16 pm

Post by Fortian »

Think out of all those names Amzela is probably the most likely to be with Cheeky and Gamma/DGB/Tails very unlikely.

Varsoon/Thor aren't possible to be with her but less likely.
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Post Post #3869 (isolation #61) » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:17 pm

Post by Fortian »

aren't impossible*

And that's enough ~thoughts~ for now, I'll probably do a Chickadee/Clemency ISO at some point and try and make a list of ~people~ that fit with both of them (ie. most likely to just outright hit scum in general slots) later this day phase.
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Post Post #3909 (isolation #62) » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:12 am

Post by Fortian »

Vote: Gamma

Yeah, this reads super genuine here. Don't think proflis ever lying here and Gammas reaction is atrocious.

You'll understand our "RR is highly likely town sadly" thing if we die in the night, mechanically should be putting that slot well and truly to the side.
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Post Post #3948 (isolation #63) » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:19 am

Post by Fortian »

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I am a noob that doesn’t know to vote.

-Reg
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Post Post #3949 (isolation #64) » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:19 am

Post by Fortian »

Also that’s L-1
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Post Post #4028 (isolation #65) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:32 pm

Post by Fortian »

Thor has to use his ability during the day
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Post Post #4052 (isolation #66) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:55 pm

Post by Fortian »

Can someone compose a post with all the information that we currently have -- all the flips / alignments / teams / claims, everything.
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Post Post #4057 (isolation #67) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:00 pm

Post by Fortian »

This is absolutely not a day or situation we're rushing, we're going to secure the victory, nail down a PoE and win this today.

We should even be considering mass-claiming and trying to piece everything together at this point.
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Post Post #4062 (isolation #68) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:13 pm

Post by Fortian »

I don't think I can be bothered explaining how poor your grasp on optimal theory/play here is, I'll just wait for other people to turn up.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post Post #4064 (isolation #69) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:19 pm

Post by Fortian »

I don't care if scum have fake claims or not, we're not clearing someone from setup speculation or things based on all of the claims or things like that. Mass-claiming just helps provide a wealth of information, allows us to try and piece together what's happened during these night phases; work out a bit better what we're probably still up against. Can read people based on how they claim / how their play fits their claim and things like that. But I'm going to let DV speak with you from hereon out, I'm done because I just can't be fucked anymore.
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Post Post #4070 (isolation #70) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:34 pm

Post by Fortian »

BuJaber is quite possibly with Clem/Gamma based on reading I did overnight FTR.
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Post Post #4071 (isolation #71) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:36 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4067, Wisdom wrote:profii what is the result
Im still assuming town or sk for fl
Yeah IMO reaction-testing thing (Which is stupid but meh, he can have his fun) where FL is town > FL is SK > FL is mafia probably.
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Post Post #4112 (isolation #72) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Post by Fortian »

Might as well out it.

And yeah FL, can you try and run through these "gambits" ie. what you were intending to do with the claim / info / how you've played, the more thought process you can provide oo this the better.
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Post Post #4126 (isolation #73) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:40 pm

Post by Fortian »

Can you fucking stop with the million posts of theory posting, it's really anti town and really annoying. You don't have to post every thought in the thread, especially as a hydra when both heads are doing it at the same time. You have the most posts in the game, by a large margin and have helped town in the game one of the least.

Step back, stop spam posting and take more time to think about things, then come back and post your thoughts once you've had time to actually think through them
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Post Post #4131 (isolation #74) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:44 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4128, Flavor Leaf wrote:I got a true alignment shot basically. I believe I would have found out if he was SK.
Can you try and explain your usage of it on him please?
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Post Post #4135 (isolation #75) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:49 pm

Post by Fortian »

I think the assumption that underdogs are all Vanilla is something we should be careful about making here, it's quite possibly true but far from guaranteed and I'd rather lose based on a misread than a flavourish assumption about the game.

And yes, we lynch BuJaber here.

Drew/Profi/FL are lock town.
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Post Post #4137 (isolation #76) » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:54 pm

Post by Fortian »

VOTE: BuJaber

DGB needs to die soon too. Think we should be looking in Tails/Amzela after this though.
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Post Post #4176 (isolation #77) » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:48 am

Post by Fortian »

Yeah there's not a world where Daves with Gamma/Chick given he's pushed both pretty strongly at times, was one of the bigger helps in getting Chicka lynched D1.

Pretty sure FL is just always town and legitimate here. Also we're a wasted investigation, can effectively self-confirm tomorrow if need be, wouldn't mind some confirmation that Wisdom is town here.

@Profii - Just 100% confirming that your result is that Amzela isn't any form of group scum here, right?
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Post Post #4229 (isolation #78) » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:20 pm

Post by Fortian »

Yeah I'm murdering BuJaber here everytime.
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Post Post #4291 (isolation #79) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:21 pm

Post by Fortian »

The fuck DGB.
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Post Post #4292 (isolation #80) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:21 pm

Post by Fortian »

Disliked her before the game, dislike her significantly more now.

Yeah, that's some seriously fucking shitty play.
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Post Post #4293 (isolation #81) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:27 pm

Post by Fortian »

We're mass-claiming today.

Can popcorn claim it and can have FL pick the first person.
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Post Post #4307 (isolation #82) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4306, Flavor Leaf wrote:If you guys want me to solve the game, that’s fine, but I need you guys to post. :cry:
Am here, will help, have a lot of thoughts and information to share, but think it's best if I hold them until others have claimed; the later we claim in the order the better pretty much.
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Post Post #4317 (isolation #83) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:59 pm

Post by Fortian »

VOTE: Tails
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Post Post #4320 (isolation #84) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:06 pm

Post by Fortian »

We shot RR N1 & N2, the fact that he didn't die N2 and 4 other people did was what made us pretty sure he was mechanically town (Maximum amount of town deaths had already occurred and thus he couldn't die) which is what changed our read on his slot N3. Shot Alonzo N3 since was hoping to cull down unreadable slots and thought he might be coasting scum. Shot Varsoon N4 since I was pretty confident in that scum read. Shot DGB N5 since there were reasons not to shoot everyone else and shooting the third party that has a small chance of being scum felt like the +EV play.
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Post Post #4321 (isolation #85) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:09 pm

Post by Fortian »

I particularly think it’s worth paying attention to our dramatic read turnaround on RR from D2 to D3, which we never properly explained previously.

-DV
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Post Post #4322 (isolation #86) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:11 pm

Post by Fortian »

I was still hoping that RR was scum and that we’d been bus driven but Reg wouldn’t let me entertain that idea for long. :(

-DV
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Post Post #4326 (isolation #87) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 3866, Fortian wrote:Shot DGB N5 since there were reasons not to shoot everyone else and shooting the third party that has a small chance of being scum felt like the +EV play.
Bit more on this I guess. Profli/FL were blatantly obvious town/clear as day, we've had a really strong town read on DrewVa throughout the game, Wisdom was someone we both were a bit leery of for a while but has been objectively the best town player in the game IMO, so didn't really want to shoot someone that was continuously helping town in the night as a herovig shot. Profli had a "Not group mafia" result on Amzela making her a suboptimal shot if we're still aiming for scum, FL had a "Not VT" result on Tails and going along with the "All Underdogs are goon" assumption makes it a bad shot, read on him/chance of that not being a Thing made me want to contemplate the shot but figured in that world we can just lynch him today and deal with the distraction that is DGB last night. So yeah, made last nights shot easy.
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Post Post #4339 (isolation #88) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:51 pm

Post by Fortian »

I mean think it was pretty obvious he was a SK even without the investigation, but awesome.
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Post Post #4340 (isolation #89) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:53 pm

Post by Fortian »

I think that might be game over, explains all night kills too.

Wisdom shot Profli, Tails shot Wisdom, we shot DGB. No anti-town left IMO.
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Post Post #4345 (isolation #90) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:58 pm

Post by Fortian »

I'm almost certain that Tails was revealed of DrewVa's role due to DGB's death and thus claimed "holstered" so he can try and go for the "Two SKs" thing as a defence here.
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Post Post #4352 (isolation #91) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:05 pm

Post by Fortian »

Anyway lets end this game, be nice for it to finally be over.
In post 3867, Fortian wrote:I haven't read bits and pieces of D2/D3, not really going to bother to until later in the day phase but I know that DV's planning on catching up tonight and probably will ping me asking me to read some peoples ISO's and give him my thoughts then. My sort of ~rough~ place where I'm at based on the bits and pieces I have read though is that
Flavor Leaf / RR / DrewVa / Dave / Pint
are pretty much the town reads I'm pretty happy with. Still kind of think
Profii
/
BuJaber
are town, kind of haven't really town read
Wisdoms
play but have nodded along with most of what he's saying and aren't really interested in considering there at all. Kinda think
Varsoon
/
Tails
might be worth a re-look but other think all of
DGB
/
Gamma
/
Thor/Amzela
are people that are where the main focus should be.
I'll take that for a game I barely played.
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Post Post #4353 (isolation #92) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:05 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4348, Flavor Leaf wrote:This doesn’t add up, because how would he have known Amzela is VT.
She claimed?
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Post Post #4356 (isolation #93) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:06 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 3404, Amzela wrote:
In post 3199, hebichan wrote:Does it?

Just because I'm voting on someone doesn't mean I care if I get lynched. I'm a VT in a role madness game again.

I just want to get my scumreads out before I die.
VOTE: hebichan

Get off my fucking role, scum.
In post 3977, Amzela wrote:Oh shit son I think that's 8.

@FL
Also, I too missed 3847. I don't blame you. I am confused as how me voting RR when you think RR is scum makes me scum. It kinda seems back-firing.

Before this gets closed down, I want to mention that if you lynch me, I'm okay with that. It's going to be a mislynch and I think I angrily claimed VT at Hebi because I thought there couldn't be multiple roles, but from what I understand, VT is kind of useless anyways. But yeah.
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Post Post #4361 (isolation #94) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:09 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4357, Flavor Leaf wrote:No, but Tails claiming that is surefire death if he was wrong about the VT. I don’t think he makes that up even as SK.
I mean, she hard claimed twice, tis not really a risk at all.
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Post Post #4366 (isolation #95) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:13 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4364, Flavor Leaf wrote:@Fortian - take me to kingmaker scenario with you. :lol:
/Shrug

Should be blindingly obvious we're town, and even more obvious that DrewVa is legitimate.

One investigative role to catch all factions pretty much.

Game ends here.
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Post Post #4369 (isolation #96) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:16 pm

Post by Fortian »

Yours is a 1-shot role, was more referring to Alonzos.
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Post Post #4372 (isolation #97) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:19 pm

Post by Fortian »

Nah, there's not two SK's, wouldn't fit re; night kills or anything. Their play this game makes no sense as a SK here either, they make this move and if the game doesn't end or if Tails doesn't flip SK we shoot them and they lose. Like they're just blatantly obviously legitimate.
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Post Post #4375 (isolation #98) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:27 pm

Post by Fortian »

2 night kills on N3 when both scum teams had members alive, no protection / blockage type roles that have flipped since, or claimed at all, there's just....such a slim likelihood that there's 5 killing roles out that night.
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Post Post #4380 (isolation #99) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:38 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4376, Tails wrote:We're also close enough where Drew can pull a fake guilty and get away with it. After all, she's seen multiple days of quick lynches. The problem is that if her claim was true, she'd have investigated me long ago. She just jumped on Fort's push to ensure she can get closer to endgame and either kill her competition or force kingmaker.
This makes no sense whatsoever; if she's SK here and you're town, she makes this play, you get lynched, she's confirmed SK, if she's the only anti-town player left in the game, she shoots someone and gets lynched tomorrow and loses. If she isn't the only anti-town player in the game she gets into a kingmaker as best case situation. SK!DrewVa can just shut up and let us 1 v 1 happily.

Like nothing you're saying here makes sense.
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Post Post #4381 (isolation #100) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:40 pm

Post by Fortian »

There's genuinely no scum-motivation for DrewVa to add themselves into the mix re; counter-claims here, if they're anti-town they don't really care who gets lynched, have no reason to fake claim, just allow any non-them member to get lynched and take the win. You'd have been better off trying to argue they're a lyncher or that we're both group scum but a third groupscum team or something then "Oh they're both SK"s.
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Post Post #4383 (isolation #101) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:46 pm

Post by Fortian »

Anyway lets end this game.
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Post Post #4384 (isolation #102) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:48 pm

Post by Fortian »

Like the only sliiiightly realistic way they make this claim as SK if if they shot you last night, you didn't die, they know/think you're a BP-SK, think by claiming today they get you lynched and get some cred / can't killl you at night. But even in that world, we vig them tonight, and if they don't die to a vig they just get lynched tomorrow. And in that world we're still correct lynching you. So none of your arguments really hold any weight here but I'm sure you'll keep yelling "FLAVOUR" a lot.
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Post Post #4385 (isolation #103) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Post by Fortian »

And that's just plain ignoring that none of our play or kills this game make even an inkling of sense as a SK, as SK you're shooting threats / people that might make you lose ect, we're shooting for scum / people that we think would get lynched or be distractions mostly (Alonzo/Varsoon/DGB) whereas as SK, you leave those people alive to get lynched over yourself. Like yeah, this is preeeeeeeeeetty damn clear cut.
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Post Post #4398 (isolation #104) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:12 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4392, Regfan wrote:You're blatantly ignoring the point that DrewVas play here has no SK-motive which actually is a huuuge point. No one is arguing whether you shot RR or Nero or not, that's just a fact (although the rr shot being claimed after we'd explicitly said we'd had mechanical reasons the slots town is a bit of a give away that you're not town imo). And the whole 'matching flavour, flavour is everthing' is a load of garbage that can be ripped apart by a two year old. But yeah, I shouldn't be wasting time with this when game will end when Dave or Amzela check in.
In post 4395, Regfan wrote:Eh, I'm not that shocked by it at all. He never really ever touched our town core.
.
Sorry, swapped to phone and was logged in here.
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Post Post #4400 (isolation #105) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:13 pm

Post by Fortian »

Dude, no one is arguing that you made those kills or not. Nor are they arguing whether your groupscum, you're SK, and I think you were probably aiming for scum and really wanted to know if you were right on Neros alignment.
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Post Post #4402 (isolation #106) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:18 pm

Post by Fortian »

Wasn't solely aiming for scum is the thing, was more shooting for chance of scum / players that are going to get in the way of scumhunting or be distractions. Several times I didn't shoot my strongest scum read, last night being an example, I thought you were more likely scum but a - EV shot in that the world where DGB is a TP and you're town and I'm wrong there were in a fucked position.
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Post Post #4404 (isolation #107) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:20 pm

Post by Fortian »

Yeah, not wasting more time arguing with an outted SK.

I'll let dave/Amzela end this.
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Post Post #4414 (isolation #108) » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:06 pm

Post by Fortian »

In post 4404, Fortian wrote:Yeah, not wasting more time arguing with an outted SK.
About time! :P

Don't mind Regfan getting his knickers all knotted up. He can be a fiery one!

- DV
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