Excalibur [Endgame]

[Dunnstral]

Hello...

DUNNSTRAL

Hello...

Kokichi

We should do unlimited hurt tags and have whoever gets a majority of hurt tags to duel the second most hurt player.

ie HURT: Elsa

I'm up for this

HURT: Untrod Tripod
HURT: Auro

trying to resist the urge to duel Elsa rn

lol you're cute

I'll vig you last

holy quarterbacking, batman

hey LLD

are we finally on the same side? will you join me in a Day 1 slam dunk scum lynch on Elsa?

Honestly, we get more value from having a strong town leader claim the sword rather than using it as a jank cop on bad town that no one wants to keep around anyway.

But the issue I realized just now is if I say "I'm taking it" I can just be shot to prevent it.

So we need two powerful town leaders both agreeing "we're taking it" so scum can only shoot one of us.

You and I or Myself and UT or even You and UT I'd be ok with, though I obviously prefer myself.

I volunteer as tribute

if anything I followed LLD?

Reading these posts as scum

Wonder what happens if Merlin gets the sword. Do they just... Become the god ruler of the town?

Serious question though, should Merlin just claim the sword and be done with it?

A sidenote to this: I'm personally viewing the day 1 duel as basically a popularity contest. So choose wisely if you duel someone.

They die when they try to use it. What part of Arthur can only use do u not get

The point of the matter is Merlin is confirmed town and safe from ever getting shot. I can deal without having a vigilante at all.

This is a bad idea

Throwing out a thought:
If scum claims Excalibur, they die immediately.
Town can vote on someone to claim Excalibur for the day. ONLY that person claims at night. If they're scum it remains unclaimed, lynch next day. If there's a claim treat them like an IC the next day.

Re: LL and Jay, I think it's better overall to discuss mechanics and find out a good strategy at this stage, instead of starting with the accusations already. *Shrug*

@Auro: They kill town and keep the sword out of play, though, again, I don't think scum really have anything to fear if a townie WOULD get the sword is the problem, because then so long as that townie is not Arthur, it's just a BP IC and scum knows they're BP so they won't waste time there.

Exactly so scum don't have incentive to NK the claimant -- even if they do, you're saying this then reduced to a mountainous?

A town leader claiming it would be all the better reason to NK that person.

This guy feels scummy to me as well

Nancy and UT are town

I don't agree with these early reads

[Dunnstral]

All challenges must be in BOLD, or they shall not count.

@nancy

[Dunnstral]

This guy feels scummy to me as well

Either you're tone-reading or there's some scummy content in what I've posted that you disagree with.
Which is it? If it's the latter, go ahead and engage me.

Both and I'm not just looking at those posts

I'm scumreading the way you come in and are talking heavily about mechanics, because your tone also feels off

[Dunnstral]

A person simply challenges another player, that's already given.
We'll need our own consensus mechanic to unofficially *make* a gladiate to happen, if we want town to be in control of it.
That's what we were discussing a few pages ago.
One proposal is that we use HURT tags, and when majority is reached, the player gladiates another scumread. (Maybe the second-highest HURT).

Yes but how do we force any player to duel? Why can’t scum just refuse? What’s stopping them from doing this? If there is no mechanic to force duels, then I don’t know how we ever get lynches.

Somebody else can challenge a player though

[Dunnstral]

3. (If Merlin's alive) Merlin confirms if Arthur the next day, says nothing if not, thus confirming to town that yesterday's winner isn't Arthur

And stuff like this that you're pushing seems anti-town

Pretty sure this step 3 should never happen

[Dunnstral]

What can happen instead: If the person with the sword is suspected enough that they are likely to be gladiated, they should probably speak up about having the sword before they are gladiated

Merlin/arthus shouldn't be outting at any point during this

[Dunnstral]

I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.

There's no reason for Merlin to out though, we just lose a confirmed town the next night for no reason

Arthur can try shooting just like anybody else... it's a vig, not a cop, it's not absolutely critical that we make use of it's power right away

[Dunnstral]

Merlin outting when arthur already has the sword and neither are under suspicion seems pretty anti-town to me.

You Bold and scream I'M DUELING THIS PLAYER, Nancy.

So, that person HAS to accept then, right?

There's nothing about accepting, they're just dueled

[Dunnstral]

Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Scum can hide behind mechanics discussion yes, especially when they don't make any reads

Furthermore I think your mechanics discussion contains parts that would be suboptimal at best for town to do,

[Dunnstral]

Scum can hide behind mechanics discussion yes, especially when they don't make any reads

Scum can do X; doesn't mean X implies scum.
I'm wary of making strong reads at this point, especially because I'm largely unfamiliar with most players who have posted till now.
Also, you don't think engagement on mechanics discussion is useful to evaluate someone? You literally scumread me off what I was discussing, so :P

OK, but I do think your actions have implied you're scum this game
You weren't asked for "strong reads", you said:

Re: LL and Jay, I think it's better overall to discuss mechanics and find out a good strategy at this stage, instead of starting with the accusations already. *Shrug*

Re: LL and Jay, I think it's better overall to discuss mechanics and find out a good strategy at this stage, instead of starting with the accusations already. *Shrug*

This is scumsided. Early interactions and reads are crucial and giving scum the time to hide behind mechanics talk to provide "content" is allowing them the luxury of coasting early.

FoS

Early interactions are crucial, but can also get ugly and cloud out any useful discussion. As long as there are no quick-duels, it's fine.

As if to give out no reads because we should be speaking only mechanically

Finally I didn't say mechanics discussion wasn't useful, just you look like scum doing it and it's also a convenient strategy if you are scum AND I don't believe us coming in and scumreading you was your purpose so I don't get why you're acting like this was part of a master plan to get reads going

Also it sounds like you're saying you can't make reads this early because you rely on meta, is that true?

[Dunnstral]

like 5 players haven't even posted yet and 3 others have single digit post counts
it's just really unnecessarily messy, if you will

icky, game just started

[Dunnstral]

If Merlin knows that Arthur has claimed the sword, why shouldn’t they confirm it?

Because arthur ALREADY HAS THE SWORD and all merlin confirming doing is telling him to shoot it - something that they are likely to do within 1-2 nights anyway, and even if they don't shoot it it's /just/ a vig, I think I'd rather have an additional confirmed town hidden away

[Dunnstral]

How can we be certain that scum doesn’t kill Merlin BEFORE he can confirm Arthur?

He doesn't need to confirm arthur if he already has the sword, he's not going anywhere

Mafia can't counterclaim a bulletproof vigilante

[Dunnstral]

Unless, you’re suggesting that anyone who has the sword must also attrmpt to vig? But since this is not a desperado role, that only results in dead townies, so having Merlin confirm Arthur after he already has the sword makes sense, doesn’t it?

If one person grabs the sword and never tries to shoot it, then arthur never gets ahold of it in the first place though

If they don't vig they're confirmed town, yes, which is useful in it's own right (in fact, if arthur never grabs the sword then we have, potentially, an additional confirmed town to narrow things down), BUT it also means we have less power to try to put the sword on other people

[Dunnstral]

If Merlin knows that Arthur has claimed the sword, why shouldn’t they confirm it?

Because arthur ALREADY HAS THE SWORD and all merlin confirming doing is telling him to shoot it - something that they are likely to do within 1-2 nights anyway, and even if they don't shoot it it's /just/ a vig, I think I'd rather have an additional confirmed town hidden away

How does Merlin get confirmed without confirming Arthur?

They don't until we're near the end of the game, before mylo/lylo

And when they are, they can claim merlin

[Dunnstral]

I mean after Arthur's outed, they can only just claim to be Merlin.

NO... Merlin is still confirmed town, we know there's only 1 merlin in the setup, regardless of what arthur is doing with the sword

Merlin outting means he dies next night - there's no protection for him, if he doesn't die he lives on as a hidden IC that scum have to look for

[Dunnstral]

It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.

I don't like this idea

[Dunnstral]

Once Arthur vigges, anyone can claim Merlin.

Who cares if Merlin gets cc'd if it's before lylo

[Dunnstral]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

Like people see 2 paragraphs out through out bad reaction gifs

UT is really scummy

Merlin claiming day 2 is not good play

[Dunnstral]

And claiming who Arthur is on day 2 when he doesn't have the sword is also not good play

Seriously?
People jumped at varsoon like he was a good walking among men

[Dunnstral]

Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC

And all those ICS die before lylo/mylo

[Dunnstral]

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

The 'pointless stealth IC' should be MERLIN and ARTHUR

[Dunnstral]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

BAD POST

[Dunnstral]

so long as both are in setup killing Merlin before claim wipes 2 ICs off the map.

You know what else wipes 2 ics off the map? Merlin claiming and saying who arthur is day 2

[Dunnstral]

Considering 216 is an awful plan, I'm going to go ahead and HURT: Tripod

What did Tripod post? GIF doesn't show for me.

It says 'Bless this post'

[Dunnstral]

@DVa: Or more realistically understanding that it's fucking hard to reign in

13 other jackasses

and not hinging an entire plan around it.

In fact, fuck you, I'm going for the sword no matter what you say, so your plan can eat shit and you can die.

[Dunnstral]

Hey GENIUSES going on about "oh the plan falls apart if 2-3 town don't cooperate"

What happens if Merlin doesn't claim? Then the plan is useless and it only took one town to 'ruin' it

[Dunnstral]

Lol on that note Dunn if fire, lld or ut is Merlin then literally the entire last 15 pages were for nothing

Fire hasn't even shown up yet though

Dunn what are you saying in 321

Just pointing out some hypocrisy, I think you can figure it out

[Dunnstral]

3. (If Merlin's alive) Merlin confirms if Arthur the next day, says nothing if not, thus confirming to town that yesterday's winner isn't Arthur

And stuff like this that you're pushing seems anti-town

Pretty sure this step 3 should never happen

How?

I believe I've talked about this in detail

[Dunnstral]

Hey GENIUSES going on about "oh the plan falls apart if 2-3 town don't cooperate"

What happens if Merlin doesn't claim? Then the plan is useless and it only took one town to 'ruin' it

False equivalence, JUST the Merlin player throwing the game is less likely than ANY 2-3 town from the 13 town not co-operating.

That's arguable

[Dunnstral]

Fire hasn't even shown up yet though

I take this back

[Dunnstral]

Like LLD said all this talk on the mechs of the game will get us no where.

haha

[Dunnstral]

Going to reaffirm
HURT: Untrod Tripod

HEAL: Auro
Because he sounds better, consider this me unvoting him rather than expressing a townread

In exchange:

HURT: Elsa Jay

[Dunnstral]

@Varsoon: He said confirmed *in* LyLo, not claiming in LyLo, there's a difference, right?
You don't think Merlin/Swordholder works better as a hidden IC till the day before LyLo, as opposed to coming out in D2 where he becomes an obvious NK?

It's not confirmable.

An example from 3p LYLO.
Player 1: I'm Merlin and have the sword
Player 2: No, I'm Merlin and have the sword
Player 3: Oh no! This plan had an obvious hole in it! Who could have ever predicted it!

I don't love us trying to "solve" the game like it's a fucking math problem. What I've seen in other games when this happened was scum got to hide in mechanics talk all game instead of having to actually engage with other players.

oh and no thanks on hurt tags. I say you gladiate your scum reads. I joined this game because the mechanics were different. Let's keep it different.

this is a fun game because it gives over half the game the chance to be BP vig. Who doesn't want that power? I'm claiming the sword every time I can and I'm going to try to vig shit. If I die I die. I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

Hold on a second, are you saying you think that something else is the optimal way to win the game but you don't like it and would rather play to have fun, or did I misinterpret this?

[Dunnstral]

You're so lucky I think you're town this game.

how does it feel to be so wrong?

Looks like a scumslip, does Firebringer usually say these sorta things?

This is scummy, again

[Dunnstral]

With that being said lld is on the lower end of my reads right now and nothign she's said this game is something she's incapable of doing as scum

Her being like "I'm volunteering to take the sword" Doesn't really mean anything because really, you expect nobody else to go for the sword at that point in time?

In fact

HURT: lady lambdadelta

[Dunnstral]

I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

[Dunnstral]

it's just straight up putting words in my mouth.

No it isn't, I asked you a question, I didn't say "ut said this"

[Dunnstral]

I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

Looks like you're trying to lead him to say he's anti-town.
I actually weakly think UT is town.

Change 'to say' to 'to admit' and it doesn't look scummy

[Dunnstral]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Because he agreed with 216 and auro worships that post

[Dunnstral]

There's no declining a challenge

[Dunnstral]

Everyone let us all begin by giving our Arthur reveal.

If you don’t know what I mean I am saying we all soft Merlin role and claim a person to be Arthur.
In case Merlin is night killed/lynched by accident we have our cleared townie.

Let me begin:
Varsoon is Arthur

Fuuuuck no
Read the mechanics again.

Ah Gamma your no fun ;) Firebringers idea was good because we the anybody who is unwilling is likely scum and the true Merlin can't say the actual Arthur so can pick somebody who is not he
therefore They who be Merlin can safely point at any other fellow muggle to distract the scum. If Merlin gets dueled/killed than we know the target is not Arthur.

Probably shouldn't be pushing stuff like this if you don't fully understand the setup, by the way

[Dunnstral]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Given the current gamestate with multiple people saying they'd policy vote gladiates, this seems like daring behavior from UT, right? Of course he might just be discouraging town cohesion, but just comes off as a troll of some sort -- wouldn't he be bit more careful as scum?

???

UT didn't gladiate anyone...

[Dunnstral]

People are saying they'd policy vote the person who funfires the gladiate at someone else

[Dunnstral]

OK

and again, I never said you said anything, I asked you a question, saying I was leading you to say something or putting words in your mouth is a misrepresentation on it's own

[Dunnstral]

Okay I need to read back, like, yesterday, but I have a good idea of who might be scum from reading this now.

ok gamma

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Setup

Setup

• You are
  Knight Errants
  , chivalrous adventurers seeking to punish evil wherever you find it.
  
• Four of you are
  Fallen Knights
  , who seek to bring down the
  Knight Errants
  . They will murder one player each night.
  
• All matters are settled with
  duels
  , not
  lynches
  . Each of you may publicly
  challenge
  another to a duel, which
  gladiates
  the two of you.
  
• The legendary sword,
  Excalibur
  , lies
  unclaimed
  in public.
  
• Anyone can secretly
  claim
  Excalibur
  during the night, and transform into a
  Bulletproof Vigilante
  . It will be publicly announced that the sword has been
  claimed
  , but not the identity of the player who
  claimed
  it.
  
• If you are not the rightful owner of the sword, you will
  die
  instead of your target when you try to
  vig
  someone. If a
  Mafia
  -aligned player
  claims
  Excalibur
  , then he/she will immediately
  die
  .
  
• Note that if more than one player try to
  claim
  the
  Excalibur
  during the night, one of them will be
  randomly
  chosen for the sword.
  
• If the player who has the
  Excalibur
  dies, then it becomes publicly
  unclaimed
  again. You cannot willingly
  unclaim
  the sword.
  
• One of the
  Knight Errants
  is
  Arthur
  , the rightful owner of
  Excalibur
  , but he is
  unaware
  of his true nature and will receive a simple
  Knight Errant Role PM
  . (but will still flip as
  Arthur
  )
  
• Thankfully, one of you is the wizard
  Merlin
  , who is aware of
  Arthur's
  true identity. Merlin also knows who has the
  Excalibur
  at all times.
  
• Merlin
  cannot just outright say who
  Arthur
  is, because
  Mafia

  Nightkill
  resolves before the

  claiming

  of the sword.
  
  
• Finally, if there is only one
  Fallen Knight
  remaining, then he/she will surrender and the game will end in
  Town

  Victory
  .

Town Win Condition

You win when there is only one

Mafia

-aligned players

remaining

, and there is at least one

Town

-aligned players

alive

.

Scum Win Condition

You win when number of

Mafia

-aligned players

alive

is greater than or equal to the number of

Town

-aligned players

alive

.

[Dunnstral]

Gamma Emerald -- probable town
Varsoon -- possible town
MariaR -- possible town
Dunnstral -- possible town

Something_Smart -- null
VeridianCleric -- null
SirCakez -- null
Ariane -- null
Nancy Drew 39 -- null
Frozen Angel -- MIA

Auro -- possible scum
Elsa Jay -- possible scum
Firebringer -- claimed scum
Untrod Tripod -- possible scum
Lady Lambdadelta -- possible scum
Kokichi Oma -- possible scum

only 4 scum so need to sort the town out of my possible scums at some point.

I like this (not just because I'm in town)

I see you're voting Kokichi though - can you go over why he's scum? I don't think I could get a read on him from his content so far

[Dunnstral]

Gamma, if the sword is claimed then it's publicly revealed to be claimed, if that person dies it's publicly unclaimed again

Trying to claim the sword when it's not there (you would know it's not there, too) should do nothing

[Dunnstral]

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS

You sure are, now is this the part where I say you're putting words in his mouth?

No, right? Because that's not what happened?

[Dunnstral]

Yet you're quoting a post and hinting at it why

[Dunnstral]

Also UT, I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

[Dunnstral]

Also, people keep *saying* 216 is wrong or whatever, but don't say how. :P

Provably false, MariaR isn't "everybody" and that's what you're referring to, the rest of us have pointed out it's flaws

[Dunnstral]

To be clear, I'm still playing by "unlimited hurt tags" so I am currently voting Kokichi, Tripod, and Elsa.

As I said, primarily gut, but also I'd say he seems way more aggressive here than he did in Witches Ball.

What do you mean aggressive

I kind of feel he hasn't done anything

[Dunnstral]

Don't think they are flaws.

But that's not what you said, you said people weren't saying 216 is wrong, which is wrong.

I don't acre what you THINK about what they said, you know they said it so stop saying they didn't

[Dunnstral]

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I noticed you stopped arguing about the game just to pester me, why don't you go do something else?

[Dunnstral]

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

That's exactly what UT is doing but he's town to you because "would he be that bold" or something

[Dunnstral]

I said people are saying it's wrong. But haven't convinced anyone why so.

You said:

Also, people keep *saying* 216 is wrong or whatever, but don't say how. :P

[Dunnstral]

Emphasis on "but don't say how"

we did say how

[Dunnstral]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Given the current gamestate with multiple people saying they'd policy vote gladiates, this seems like daring behavior from UT, right? Of course he might just be discouraging town cohesion, but just comes off as a troll of some sort -- wouldn't he be bit more careful as scum?

He didn't. He said something like "I'm not using hurt tags, just gladiate your scumreads" earlier and that's what I'm referring to.

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

Trolls are really dangerous this game, and town should NOT fall into their traps.

[Dunnstral]

Auro you just said he comes off as a troll, stop backtracking

[Dunnstral]

Which wasn't convincing

It doesn't matter what you think of the arguments, saying that nobody argued at all is demonstratively false

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

Not feeling this
HURT: Auro btw

Why? Do you know she flipped town?

Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Which part of step 3?
I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.
And if non-Arthur has the sword, Merlin shouldn't say anything. Coming out is anti-town.

Bad logic.

But I kinda feel auro is town.

gamma scummy

HURT: gamma

Compared to Witches Ball this is "aggressive"

I know compared to Varsoon it's like lying in a meadow of flowers but I'm going by how he usually sounds as town

I don't really agree with that, here are some of his first posts in witch's ball:

Spoiler:

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

Weird.

I originally interpreted that as her thinking you were expendable.

How? If shes scum she doesnt want to be stuck without someone. I'm likely to accept her since we play a lot together.

By the way I'm lynching the firebringer duo first. Whoever he pairs with

Her explanation for proposing to you was that she doesn't think she'd be one of the players to fall into one of the T-T dance pairs.

Yes because I have a tendency to get SR when im town.

In what world

Also as far as I remember troll FB is town FB so FB is town.

The fuck is this btw

Possible scum interaction

Looks just as aggressive if not more to me

[Dunnstral]

Everyone claims the sword - if we remove Merlin, who should avoid going for the sword in this strategy, there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1.

NO

There's no way to tell who goes for the sword or not

MAFIA DON'T HAVE TO GRAB THE SWORD, especially when there's like 10 town going for it it's not even suspicious that they don't get it

[Dunnstral]

There's no way to tell who went for the sword or not, except for a person claiming the sword or the sword not getting claimed outright

[Dunnstral]

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I noticed you stopped arguing about the game just to pester me, why don't you go do something else?

Huh? It's a particular type of argument tactic where you try to make people defend themselves for something they didn't do. That directly relates.

Again I ask you: Do he get to say "stop putting words in my mouth" when you ask that question, or no?

No right? That's not what happened? Yet it's what you're accusing me of doing

[Dunnstral]

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

That's exactly what UT is doing but he's town to you because "would he be that bold" or something

UT doesn't seem to be trolling individuals. His perspective is valid, if not game-winning in that he also wants to have fun and not discard certain mechanics just because "optimum".

He's not triggering anyone.

He's trolling right now

[Dunnstral]

And discouraging town cohesion

But you'll still argue it's somehow to bold for him to do that, like you know what UT would do as scum

[Dunnstral]

to lay their lives on the line for the town is a noble act.

This guys really getting into his Arthurian RP or something

[Dunnstral]

there are multiple theories to manage the game, some great some not so much
the issue is that those of the fallen knowing our strategy can easily play through it.

The idea that everybody claims makes the thou who doth claim the sword random, so the fallen can simply not claim, we knowith not if they did or not

The idea that if the Nobel Arthur befalls us than the fallen just claim as our wizardy friend is also rediculas as than we rally to together to allow Merlin to claim the sword freely in that case and if it's truly a hidden fallen then they die, and if it was really merlin the fallen likely target the wizard anyhow and thus dies (as knightkill resolves before swordclaim) as twould be suicide for the fallen to allow merlin the sword.


what I see is this, two are Gladiating today,

we have three people declare intention to claim the sword tongith, of those only those three claim. the Fallen must select from one of our worthy comrades whom to try and kill, as they only get one shot we know of the remaining two that one received the sword and is our protectorate.
we leave it to that person to declare the Challenges for the next day on the third sword commander and we excommunicate their opposition without prejudice. This gives no doubt that the claiment has the sword.
There can be no more noble a cause to lay ones life down for their fellows in arms

how it doesn't work, the fallen can't claim the sword they die, so that bypasses that
anybody outside the three whom claim are working anti-town anyhow and should be excommunicated
if the fallen target somebody outside the three they are either attempting to protect a comrad or put doubt on the living.

with starting as 13-4 this gives the chance we COULD lose 4 Arturian knights going into Day 3 (Gladiate, Nightkill, policy Glaidate, Nightkill)
however, than we have 9-4 minimum, with a confirmed protected member of the round table and anybody who counter claims having the sword is working against town and either the fallen attempting to lead us astray or somebody playing anti-town. either way the gladiator candidate.
if they flip fallen, we immedietly know original betrayed us, and is target for Day 4. Still should keep us at 7-4, 7-3 for EOD 4 a position to repeate the process with improved odds,

in all the town wins by day 6, and we don't need to risk loosing Arthur with a Blood thirsty Vig.


With this idea as well, it allows merlin to participate in the volunteering process to hide their position and as such could step in only if they witness that Arthur has stepped up to claim the sword. Allows the rest of us to know that Arthur has Excalibur without Merlin breaching rules stating whom it was. Then hence forth Arthur will have the sword and Glaidator protection, double power to freely wield as so wisely they doth choose.

Also this is a decent start of an idea but I think instead of volunteers we should get scummy people (UT, etc) to go for the sword to clear themself, then I think those people should shoot so we can get new people grabbing the sword as well as testing for arthur

[Dunnstral]

532 basically makes me want to follow this man willingly. I like when people put effort into their stuff like that.

On another note, Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.

By the way, this is a scummy post, and I'm reaffirming my hurt tag on you

[Dunnstral]

Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.

Pestering LLD for no reason gets your respect?

[Dunnstral]

Everyone let us all begin by giving our Arthur reveal.

If you don’t know what I mean I am saying we all soft Merlin role and claim a person to be Arthur.
In case Merlin is night killed/lynched by accident we have our cleared townie.

Let me begin:
Varsoon is Arthur

Fire, you posted this but then you don't care about any other mechanics discussion, or bother to continue with this, do you agree with others that this is not a good idea?

[Dunnstral]

532 basically makes me want to follow this man willingly. I like when people put effort into their stuff like that.

On another note, Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.

By the way, this is a scummy post, and I'm reaffirming my hurt tag on you

That's a normal post from me. I think. Maybe it's a tired one. I make it based on my current state of mind. What about it is scummy?

Pedit: seeing her responses and being haughty about Fire always being wrong and calling a bunch of people idiots? Yeah it does.

Well for one, I wasn't even able to process the post by the time you posted that, leading me to believe you hadn't even read it or understood what it was saying, just saw a wall of text and said "yep I agree" - how does being the yes girl here without knowing what's going on help the town, when you already showed support for the plan in 216?

What if it was a bad plan? Should we lose the game because he 'put effort' into a bad plan? What if he's scum trying to mislead us? How can you know any of these things if you haven't read the post? How can you be comfortable coming in and giving assent - are you waiting for other people to come in and tell you what to think about that post?

Then we go into you skipping past everything else (which you say you're tired now, OK) along with a general disregard for what else is going on in thread at the moment, and you're still not giving a read throughout, you just like that the guy is 'putting in effort'

[Dunnstral]

its a pretty neat setup but nothing i haven't played before.

Was this setup run before? Were you a part of it?

Maybe you should be telling us what to do or what not to do, fire, since it seems you have experience with the setup?

[Dunnstral]

How about we let Varsoon, UT, and LLD go for the sword? They've all already volunteered their intentions to go for the sword, and they seemed pretty bent on going for it

[Dunnstral]

i think i have the highest success rate next to rc in reading u

This post was anger baiting by fire, if you guys didn't catch on

[Dunnstral]

But Dunnstral, these people are also not willing to let go of the sword -- so what then?

Then we can't do the plan at all, or else we have to adjust it to whatever they want to do

[Dunnstral]

i think i have the highest success rate next to rc in reading u

This post was anger baiting by fire, if you guys didn't catch on

ummmm no.

ummmm yes, actually.

These posts in Witch's halloween ball:

The game was to abuse RC's arrogance and attempt to get Short into the last pairing. I feel like maybe if Short plays it right and doesn't replace out it maybe works. I just knew neither Fire nor I were living to endgame in a game where RC is Innocent Child, regardless of either of our alignments tbh.

So I just played to ruin every connective tell in the fucking game. And I did a pretty ok job at it.

Anyway, gg town. I'd love to play scum in a game where I don't have to deal with a dictator who will literally never allow me anywhere near his town block even if I was town.

It's why I was so hoping Short would stick the game out and win so I could shove it in RC's face that I conned him into letting a fucking newbie like Short get past his VAUNTED SCUMHUNTING SKILLS.

How about you start expecting LLD to be a human being then tell me to get over myself.

-RC

Followed up by:

i think i have the highest success rate next to rc in reading u

Is trolling/anger baiting

[Dunnstral]

Yeah it's just like DVa says, just because someone is confirmed town doesn't mean we should listen to everything they say, good insight there

[Dunnstral]

But you really think people are going to lynch confirmed town?

[Dunnstral]

do you think I am scum for "baiting" lld?

Actually I didn't even mean to direct this towards you, I'm just defending my position when you say you aren't anger baiting.

People were talking about how they were sticking up for you 'standing up to lld' or something and that's why I pointed to that in the first place

[Dunnstral]

Elsa what do you think of LLD and UT rn?

Lady is just one of those guys I lynch because I dont like the personality sometimes. Like how we lynched BEF for floundering super hard.

I'd personally challenge thee wielder if they are shitty enough. You don't get to keep the sword if you hurt the game.

Why would town vote for potential scum as opposed to an Innocent Child?

Well I don't know. You tell me.

But you really think people are going to lynch confirmed town?

If They are shitty and hurting the game, yes.

I'm not asking what you think is ideal

Do you actually THINK that as a collective, the town will come together and lynch the confirmed town, even if they're atrocious? I don't think they would

[Dunnstral]

On another note, Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.

FTR. I was trying to bait LLD to get her more upset because she was annoying me.
But I didn't start baiting her until after she started mocking me heavily.

So I just find the insinuation that I started shit to be gross. Not if I did it or not, cause I definitely was poking her.

[Dunnstral]

ughhh

lets drop it.
this is a dumb argument.

Dunn is this a town tell for Fire in your opinion? does he drop dumb arguments as scum? I don't remember anything like this in Witches Ball

Well I read him wrong in Witch's Ball anyway

[Dunnstral]

And for your question I don't know

[Dunnstral]

Elsa Jay I'm not trying to argue whether you believe it's right to lynch them

I'm saying it will never happen, you'll never get a majority to vote out the innocent child, not even - no, especially not the scum

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, can we drop the subject. I am feeling very uncomfortable with the topic.

oooookkkkkkk

[Dunnstral]

I'd personally challenge thee wielder if they are shitty enough. You don't get to keep the sword if you hurt the game.

This is some spicy shit but I don’t think it’s scum yet

Are you going to think she's scum at a later date, then?

Elsa I don't even disagree with you, I'm just telling you it's not going to happen, or if it does happen it will be a miracle

[Dunnstral]

HEAL: auro

i often scumread non native english speakers.

His english is fine.............. like I don't think anything he's said is a language barrier type deal

[Dunnstral]

Here you go Fire chan

Spoiler:

Don't know if you're into this genre yet tho so let me know

Bro NCS is some good stuff

Agree

[Dunnstral]

Not that song though........... not for me at least

[Dunnstral]

How about we leave the realm of theoretical and you tell us who you'd like to hold the sword, Something_Smart?

If we follow that plan at least, which it doesn't seem like you are attached to

[Dunnstral]

Oro should I be scouting the playerlist for 'good at both town and scum, that is both hard to read and very strong to have as a town leader.' myself?

[Dunnstral]

I've done more than try actually

[Dunnstral]

Merlin needs to claim the day before lyloor else they can be countered in lylo

[Dunnstral]

Oro should I be scouting the playerlist for 'good at both town and scum, that is both hard to read and very strong to have as a town leader.' myself?

so Maria?

Well yes but I might be biased because I feel I'm above average at reading her

I wasn't necessarily agreeing with SS either, just wondering where he was going with that

[Dunnstral]

he can be leashed

How? He's not a sk, he's confirmed town, what are we going to do to him, lynch him?

[Dunnstral]

i should take of dunny boy but i think he is arguing a lot of stuff just trying to be right than sorting a lot. which doesn't seem right.

I don't really agree with this but OK

Especially since I feel you're taking into account me arguing with you when I feel like you kind of interjected yourself into that

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

Not feeling this
HURT: Auro btw

Why? Do you know she flipped town?

Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Which part of step 3?
I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.
And if non-Arthur has the sword, Merlin shouldn't say anything. Coming out is anti-town.

Bad logic.

But I kinda feel auro is town.

gamma scummy

HURT: gamma

Compared to Witches Ball this is "aggressive"

I know compared to Varsoon it's like lying in a meadow of flowers but I'm going by how he usually sounds as town

I don't really agree with that, here are some of his first posts in witch's ball:

Spoiler:

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

Weird.

I originally interpreted that as her thinking you were expendable.

How? If shes scum she doesnt want to be stuck without someone. I'm likely to accept her since we play a lot together.

By the way I'm lynching the firebringer duo first. Whoever he pairs with

Her explanation for proposing to you was that she doesn't think she'd be one of the players to fall into one of the T-T dance pairs.

Yes because I have a tendency to get SR when im town.

In what world

Also as far as I remember troll FB is town FB so FB is town.

The fuck is this btw

Possible scum interaction

Looks just as aggressive if not more to me

@DVa what do you think of this

[Dunnstral]

UT is self-resolving anyway, considering he'll attempt to vig.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion but I don't think UT ever made it clear what he'd do if he got the sword

[Dunnstral]

What is the threshold for a lol gladiate being turned into an ethical certified town ap proved gladiate?

[Dunnstral]

(Oh Auro was scummy and we were the others reacting to it because scum prob looks at varsoons post and doesn't try to look at it in depth like town due and just mark it off as towny ironically now that I say this it's more likely varsoon is town because scum spewed him town)

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Because he agreed with 216 and auro worships that post

Pro tip this is why Auro is prob town because his play make sense with his emotions and overall tone of the thread. It's very hard to fake what Auro is doing as scum rn. His naive aura is the same thing Nancy does and make it easy too...well I won't say cause she gets triggered. Classic trick learned at the academy

If you look at my posting you'll see I had the same thoughts with scumreading UT and Auro and then retracting the scumread on Auro

Putting the naive aura thing into words makes me feel better there

You seem towny this game -

are you mafia?

I think you're town right now because I was having the same thoughts

[Dunnstral]

*claps hands* Just because vig shoots town doesn't mean it was a bad shot *claps hands*

[Dunnstral]

*claps hands* Just because vig shoots town doesn't mean it was a bad shot *claps hands*

Scumpost harder.
Also we never get a vig in this setup, Dunn.
I already came up with an ideal strat for it and even then it's like 1/7 chance,
It's awful.

The reality is that Arthur can't Vig until Merlin confirms who Arthur is
Trying to vig before then confers a 11/12 chance of suicide.

Don't forget to hurt tag me like you hurt tagged everyone else who disagreed with your mechanics discussion

[Dunnstral]

And I wasn't even saying it's likely that we get a vig, just arguing against the notion that all shots on town are bad shots - if they're aimed at people who would otherwise be lynched, they're still in towns favor

[Dunnstral]

Nevermind the whole arthur thing, just cycling through confirmed towns helps us up. If we get people we

would have lynched anyway

to grab the sword and then die, it's still a net positive for the town, even if we never get the sword on Arthur

[Dunnstral]

First of all, a plan that requires some town cohesion is not necessarily worse than a plan that requires no town cohesion; in fact it's likely to be better because we can assume that town can put its cohesion to good use. So really the best thing to do is to accurately predict how much cohesion town is going to have

Townread on Something_Smart for this, I really don't see any utility in scum pointing this out. Plus, I've actually thought (and maybe said) something like this earlier in the game.

LOL are you serious? I feel like me + DVa + maria have been saying some variation of this all game day long

[Dunnstral]

First of all, a plan that requires some town cohesion is not necessarily worse than a plan that requires no town cohesion; in fact it's likely to be better because we can assume that town can put its cohesion to good use. So really the best thing to do is to accurately predict how much cohesion town is going to have

Townread on Something_Smart for this, I really don't see any utility in scum pointing this out. Plus, I've actually thought (and maybe said) something like this earlier in the game.

I don't understand what he's saying here that scum couldn't have pointed out, this isn't a jab at S_S I'm questioning YOUR logic here

That a plan that requires some cohesion is better than one that requires no cohesion...? No really... He's not the first person to say this or work off this notion at the very least

[Dunnstral]

If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.

Does this mean you're scumreading me Maria?

I could see you flipping scum yes but I would rather see you go for the sword then dual.

I find it interesting you want me to duel day 1. I think that seems strictly suboptimal, don't you?

I think you're going to be pushed regardless if you're scum or not. If you win the dual you go for the sword. If you flip people lose the excuse of pushing you.

And this was really weird coming from you - she's going to be pushed so might as well lynch her anyway? What? There's NO WAY you're actually thinking like this... Like I know there's not

[Dunnstral]

AFAIR, you were arguing with me that the likelihood of *one* town screwing up as Merlin was arguably as much as two or three town out of 13 not co-operating. I said it's pretty clear that's untrue, and you then stopped engaging me there.

Gonna call this one out as a misrepresentation of what's been going on

[Dunnstral]

What do you think I've been arguing Auro?

I never said all 13 town need to band together and join hands and spin in a circle, I compromised and said the three people who were definitely having a go at the sword (Varsoon, UT, LLD) could do so and we could work with that

I also said I'd like for people who were going to be lynched anyway to grab the sword and then step away so that the sword could be used again (and who knows, maybe they're arthur)

We really just need to put pressure on people and then when they feel like they're going to be mislynched, GRAB THE SWORD

I never ever said we needed the entire town to cooperate on something so I'm confused about what you're getting at - the whole basis of my arguments have been around some town working together, even what you just said:

LOL are you serious? I feel like me + DVa + maria have been saying some variation of this all game day long

AFAIR, you were arguing with me that the likelihood of *one* town screwing up as Merlin was arguably as much as two or three town out of 13 not co-operating. I said it's pretty clear that's untrue, and you then stopped engaging me there.

Something_Smart's pointing out that it's worth searching for a strategy expecting a degree of cohesion but not *perfect* cohesion, which early DVa's plan required.

Can you show me the relevant quotes from you guys that say this?

Shows that you understand this? Like, what do you think that 2-3 town is representing? That's who needs to co-operate... I WAS ARGUING WITH YOU RIGHT THERE ABOUT TWO-THREE TOWN COOPERATING

[Dunnstral]

The misrepresentation is you linking to 2 posts to describe my entire play in a game where I've posted over 100 times

It doesn't matter what's in those quotes

[Dunnstral]

Hey GENIUSES going on about "oh the plan falls apart if 2-3 town don't cooperate"

What happens if Merlin doesn't claim? Then the plan is useless and it only took one town to 'ruin' it

False equivalence, JUST the Merlin player throwing the game is less likely than ANY 2-3 town from the 13 town not co-operating.

That's arguable

What stance am I taking here:

1)We should get 1 town member to co-operate
2)We should get some town to co-operate, like 2-3 or even 4 or 5
3)We should get all 13 town members to co-operate

[Dunnstral]

HURT: UT
Wanted to talk about this during catch-up but I’m not focused enough to get through rn so I’ll just do this now
The post by Dunnstral I quoted saying I had a good idea of someone who could be scum, I was referring to UT. In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

He wasn't in that game so this reasoning only holds for saying it's a bad idea

Well against Lady it'll be enough.

We have 5 days. If Elsa decides to duel anyone prematurely, denying us time, please murder them.

I don't like this coming from you because it looks like you said it in response to 990

There's something that's been off about you all game, and I didn't know how to put it into words, I think it's the implication you are giving out that you shouldn't be voted today for being a strong voice, but looking at your post history there are times where you aren't in thread for hundreds of posts at a time and then you don't really make a HUGE impact when you're here either, I don't know if this comes from you misconstruing the way you are playing this game or if something else is going on here or what



I am this far back right now and boy does Auro ever shut up? Feels like he's on every page, probably because he almost literally is

A few people are scumreading me, and DVa is hard scumreading me for my having engaged her and pushed her on that meta FoS.

This feels kind of misreppy for what DVa is saying

We have 5 days. If Elsa decides to duel anyone prematurely, denying us time, please murder them.

^ scum post

Yeah it is

[Dunnstral]

Gladiate MariaR

Why have people been making HURT tags, if they’re just going to be ignored? Didn’t you say we should kill EJ for doing this? :facepalm:

Elsa was giving me an ultimatuum, and I was fine to wait when I thought she was scum, but once I realized she was likely town I needed to make a move to avoid a TvT duel.

Seeing this now - why do you believe mariaR is scum? Did you ever explain

[Dunnstral]

Therefore, if he doesn't change his mind about going for the sword no matter what, and we decide that it's best to limit who takes the sword, I'll probably push to policy lynch him.

I won't be supporting this

My countdown to challenging Lady begins now.

(expired on 2018-11-29 01:09:01)

Noting this for LLD's challenge later

Ok 12 hours is fine then.

I support these:

HURT: Auro
LLD
Ariane

Curious if anyone else had a negative reaction to 371?

I didn't remember anything Ariane has posted

That post is pretty bad in that it looks like she doesn't care to do any thinking and just called a big post towny (which a lot of people have done this game)

Smart, I'm also gonna have to call you out for not even commenting on the recent events of my pre-determined challenge. I know we're having 2 different discussions right now, but you HAVE to realise it's bad your not commenting on me or Lady right now.

I considered commenting, but then realized I had nothing useful to say. Do you want to hear anything in particular?

I'd say that's true, but...

Curious if anyone else had a negative reaction to 371?

I don't see anything bad about it.

You legit picked Dva's offhand comment on Arianne out of our discussion and ONLY that. Your not calling me out for being scummy, townie, proactively giving an agreement or disagreement of what I'm doing. Your not looking into Lady, and at this point, I feel like that's intentional distancing.

The new deadline is 8:00 a.m. EST for my challenge. Just do

something smart

about it and atleast figure out where you could vote.

Say it now. Will you vote me or vote Lady? I know Auro and obviously Lady will vote for me since they've said as much. I want your opinion.

I like this post
Elsa in general has looked a lot better leading up to the lld challenge

I don't know how I'm going to vote. It will probably come down to which I am more afraid of: scum-LLD or town-you.

I don't see why you should expect me to determine this before the challenge.

Your not looking into Lady, and at this point, I feel like that's intentional distancing.

LLD is well-known for her strong emotional play as town and as scum.

I'm a logic-driven player who doesn't do well with emotions. I strongly doubt that I'd be able to get a better than random read on LLD, especially since I haven't interacted with her at all.

And I don't think LLD's even reacted to Jay saying he'll challenge her.

You're looking scummy now S_S

Regardless of what You think of my Town game, Smart, I'm always trying to get better. So please take this time seriously now.

I mean, yeah, sure, but you're kinda doing it to yourself by challenging one of the loudest players in the game.

LAMIST is what came to my mind.

What part of it strikes you as LAMIST?

This post seems to be falling into the same notion LLD has of herself
It makes me feel that if LLD was saying anything about it in the scum pt then S_S would have gotten that notion from there

It's just a bad post in general, not just because it's wrong, but because I can't figure out HOW he could arrive at that conclusion looking at only posts in this thread

[Dunnstral]

Really weird that S_S doesn't respond to that either, just keeps talking about something else

[Dunnstral]

HURT: UT
Wanted to talk about this during catch-up but I’m not focused enough to get through rn so I’ll just do this now
The post by Dunnstral I quoted saying I had a good idea of someone who could be scum, I was referring to UT. In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

He wasn't in that game so this reasoning only holds for saying it's a bad idea

Didn’t I already disprove that to you

You were asking questions on things from post ~250 when we were in the 900's in current posts so I'm not sure why you're taking this stance with me now

[Dunnstral]

I'm not gonna rely on ever changing meta, I'm relying on the information she has given this game. Focus on this game.

That's gonna be a big fat nope. Most people, especially experienced ones, just don't follow universal tells. If you try to use tells "just from this game" on them, you'll fail to get anything useful the vast majority of the time.

I mean... if you want to ignore her reputation and challenge her anyway, I won't stop you... but you're likely to learn exactly what I mean by "loud".

Nevermind, there's this

It doesn't matter what she does in other games, she's not loud this game, she's not loud now even when she's challenging someone else

[Dunnstral]

Dva LLD sword

is the implication here that in LLD vs Elsa you'd side with Elsa?

I need to read Elsa iso but I haven't seen anything scummy so yes atm

Noting that this was pointed out pre-challenge

i think lld has to know on some level she would lose the duel if she gladiated so she isn't gonna do it.

We get it, you don't like me and you think I'm bad.

The feeling is mutual. Can you stop being a prick and actually try and read me for once instead of being forever wrong?

He's not being a prick though, he's right - aren't you gladiating MariaR because you think people could be afraid enough of her to vote her over you?

i am starting to think lld is town just by this huge consensus that she is scum.
such bad reasoning.

someone needs to tell me that is bad.

4 scum 13 town, that's 3 other scum if lld is scum, so yeah that reasoning is pretty bad

The more I think on it, the more this person just can't be town can they. Their positions are too out of line with reality.

Gladiate MariaR

Fine, let's make the other play. Polarize on two big names and make people make a choice that way.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

[Dunnstral]

Gladiate MariaR

What happened to me? What about Elsa? You're all over the place here dude.

What is going on with you this game?

I can have multiple scum reads, and my reads can change.

It's called progression of thought.

There is none for your MariaR read

[Dunnstral]

I don't care what you don't like, you can't vote for me right now

[Dunnstral]

You sat there.

And said you would lynch me.

Without really calling me scum.

Or pushing me in any hard way.

That is not what town maria would do.

she did that in the ball game too from my memory though.

^^^^^^^^
LEGIT I CALLED YOU SCUM AND LET YOU GET LYNCHED JUST LAST GAME THE FK YOU TALKING ABOUT LOL
Dunn can vouch

Maria definitely thought the Firebringer duo had scum in that game and was wanting them gone

[Dunnstral]

No way town LLD duels me here without trying to talk to me more.
Although I must say this'll be fun let's go fellow knight~

Agree with the first line

And out of the corner of my eye I see Gamma is freaking out about something in pedit

[Dunnstral]

HURT: UT
Wanted to talk about this during catch-up but I’m not focused enough to get through rn so I’ll just do this now
The post by Dunnstral I quoted saying I had a good idea of someone who could be scum, I was referring to UT. In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

He wasn't in that game so this reasoning only holds for saying it's a bad idea

Didn’t I already disprove that to you

You were asking questions on things from post ~250 when we were in the 900's in current posts so I'm not sure why you're taking this stance with me now

Alright you wanna play hardball we’ll play hardball. I posted that I realized I was wrong, but you decided to discredit me by attacking my working towards catching up. I’m gladiating you tomorrow.

Not sure what you're talking about

I feel like you were complaining about me responding to past things instead of current ones when it's something I've seen you do this game

I don't know how that escalates to "I'm gladiating you tomorrow"

[Dunnstral]

LLD is trying to creature the illusion that she was gonna win any duel so people go "oh yeah why would she dual maria as scum here it makes no sense"
When the reality is she was losing almost if not every dual she was in. So the only play scum her can make that makes sense is a risky one. That being me. In fact she went after me me right after I said I'd side with elsa

Yeah I saw that

I guess my problem is that LLD makes this play as either alignment and I'm having a hard time discerning Maria's alignment

My gut says scum maria but I dont know why. LLD can you sell me on it plz. Something other than "read her"

Scummy post regardless of my read on Maria/LLD

If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.

Does this mean you're scumreading me Maria?

I could see you flipping scum yes but I would rather see you go for the sword then dual.

I find it interesting you want me to duel day 1. I think that seems strictly suboptimal, don't you?

I think you're going to be pushed regardless if you're scum or not. If you win the dual you go for the sword. If you flip people lose the excuse of pushing you.

And this was really weird coming from you - she's going to be pushed so might as well lynch her anyway? What? There's NO WAY you're actually thinking like this... Like I know there's not

Ok, so for starters here's someone who knows Maria very well saying that her behaviour doesn't match her norm, and it doesn't. Maria has been doing this weird "I want LLD to have the sword" and "I will vote LLD to die" thing and this is the culmination of it.

Yeah but I also said she was town before this and I agreed with what she was saying

I'm not scumreading her right now

[Dunnstral]

2. It lets us get an extra day if scum hit our BP

There are way too many factors to rely on scum hitting bp this game

Plus, by this same logic, we can no lynch later. Do you see yourself never voting out maria/lld? That's what you're suggesting right now, because nolynching now only to turn around and gladiate them day 3 doesn't make sense

[Dunnstral]

Untrod Tripod is Arthur.

[Dunnstral]

So does Maria want to talk about that straight up scum flailing at the end of the day there, or what?

[Dunnstral]

Scumtastic

[Dunnstral]

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstal is Reinhardt

It's so true, how did you know

[Dunnstral]

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Wow you scumreading maria? Why?

Want to hear more from FA slot given I have a slot of tr's and I think scum can be in the lurker slots.

Scumtastic

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Why? This post sound more NAI to me.

I'm also referencing her posts at the end of yesterday where she suddenly announced that she wasn't going for the sword

What's really strange is it also feels like she already knows LLD is going to flip town in those posts

[Dunnstral]

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Wow you scumreading maria? Why?

And what's your read on her?

[Dunnstral]

The key point you are leaving out Nancy is that she never said anything until right after fire hammered

[Dunnstral]

w/e do I rly have a choice I'll just die either by scum nk or by town lynch zz

This one Maria

Why would you die by town lynch if lld was scum?

[Dunnstral]

What do you think about my idea? Where Maria (and nobody else) claims the sword if LLD flips scum?

If this is the plan I refuse to go for the sword.

Like the whole point of me going for the sword is so I live ya know? If I die the point is moot

w/e do I rly have a choice I'll just die either by scum nk or by town lynch zz

I won't go for the sword...or maybe I will we'll make scum guess

I'm not doing it just so I can be a nk I rather play the game ty.

Tbf Dunn, this makes total sense. Why does scum!Maria say she’s not going for the sword, as opposed to making excuses for not being the one to claim it. Because FG, said that the potential swordclaimer can be NK’d before they can hypothetically become bp right?

Scum maria can't gaurantee that town goes for the sword

It looked like UT and varsoon were backing off it at eod

So if it lays there unclaimed after she said she'd go for it she's outted

[Dunnstral]

Town Maria would have responded to 1507 too

I just know she would have

[Dunnstral]

That doesn't even matter

Point is she was in agreement until lld was abruptly hammered then she suddenly went on about not wanting to grab the sword in twilight

[Dunnstral]

What do you think about my idea? Where Maria (and nobody else) claims the sword if LLD flips scum?

If this is the plan I refuse to go for the sword.

Like the whole point of me going for the sword is so I live ya know? If I die the point is moot

w/e do I rly have a choice I'll just die either by scum nk or by town lynch zz

I won't go for the sword...or maybe I will we'll make scum guess

I'm not doing it just so I can be a nk I rather play the game ty.

Tbf Dunn, this makes total sense. Why does scum!Maria say she’s not going for the sword, as opposed to making excuses for not being the one to claim it. Because FG, said that the potential swordclaimer can be NK’d before they can hypothetically become bp right?

Scum maria can't gaurantee that town goes for the sword

It looked like UT and varsoon were backing off it at eod

So if it lays there unclaimed after she said she'd go for it she's outted

Day 2

Excalibur is

claimed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2018-12-09 22:00:00)

You asked me why Maria did something, I responded why she would, there's no contradiction due to the sword being claimed - after all, Maria

did the thing

, and I was speculating on

if she hadn't done the thing

[Dunnstral]

w/e do I rly have a choice I'll just die either by scum nk or by town lynch zz

This one Maria

Why would you die by town lynch if lld was scum?

That's not the point you were trying to make though. You were saying I implied I knew LLD would flip town. How does this point relate to that at all.

Because that's what it looks like to me

[Dunnstral]

Is it a reasonable expectation from town to submit to a governed Excalibur cop, at the cost of possibly being a NK? I think it absolutely is, since it helps the game move forward a great deal. Maria, do you not think so?

Maybe. I can see pros and cons for both I just know I cared about my own survival more to play another day then do 2 things I hate being `1) If I did have the sword be clear and have to kill myself later or 2) Just die outright so I took option 3) Not take the sword keep playing and someone else be clear.

By me not going for the sword we had someone that wasn't getting a lot of trs dead and a new clear. I don't see the issue here.
Pedit: Exactly

Option 4) Pretend you're going for the sword up until someone else hammers, then back off and list 4 other players to take the sword without there being any more time for discussion

[Dunnstral]

Yes because presumably someone else -perhaps one of the surviving 3 of the 4 players she mentioned?, has it.

ok...?

Your original point was asking why Maria would tell other people to go for the sword instead of not just going for it

[Dunnstral]

Look who scum nightkilled. Someone in my list.

I don't think there was any real indication that S_S was going for the sword, though?

You writing a name down in a list doesn't matter

[Dunnstral]

Looks like what? I asked what posts make it look like I know LLD would flip town. You've never cleared that up you're pushing a whole dif topic

I pointed it out and moved on

[Dunnstral]

And I'm pretty sure I remember that you did agree to taking the sword before the lynch

[Dunnstral]

No we had more than enough time to decide on a duel yesterday - you guys were too caught up in the mechanics to look at reads, and that's coming from me

[Dunnstral]

AWWWW I GET THE PLAN. I'm flattered LLD is scared of town me so she wants people to think we're buddies when she dies to get rid of town me. Aw lld I'm honored ty for choosing me this is really cute

If that's the case, would you be okay with taking the sword tonight?

I normally hate being an IC but sure I wouldn't mind it.

there are better people to go for the sword then me but I suppose I have too regardless weeee

This looked a lot like you were argreeing to taking the sword, to me, did I misunderstand it?

[Dunnstral]

Look who scum nightkilled. Someone in my list.

I don't think there was any real indication that S_S was going for the sword, though?

You writing a name down in a list doesn't matter

It does look good for Maria though because why does scum!Maria kill one of 4 people she suggested claim the sword?

Nobody is under any obligation to listen to Maria, especially when she announces her plans in twilights before anyone can discuss it

Can you point out some evidence that suggests that Somethign_smart was going for the sword, or that he was otherwise especially likely to listen to MariaR there?

[Dunnstral]

HURT: MariaR

[Dunnstral]

It's not like me saying "I'm taking the sword" was the reason LLD got lynched over me. So why does me backing off from the sword make you raise a brow when other people did the exact same thing.

Because you agreed to take the sword then switched off after a quick hammer

[Dunnstral]

You changing your mind happened after the hammer, though, when we had no time to talk about anything, throwing town into chaos for who goes for the sword

[Dunnstral]

MariaR do you believe that Something Smart was killed because you put him in a list of players you'd like to see go for the sword?

[Dunnstral]

AWWWW I GET THE PLAN. I'm flattered LLD is scared of town me so she wants people to think we're buddies when she dies to get rid of town me. Aw lld I'm honored ty for choosing me this is really cute

If that's the case, would you be okay with taking the sword tonight?

I normally hate being an IC but sure I wouldn't mind it.

there are better people to go for the sword then me but I suppose I have too regardless weeee

This looked a lot like you were argreeing to taking the sword, to me, did I misunderstand it?

At first I agreed reluctantly but the more I thought on it the more I changed my mind. Scum me would've just agreed to go for the sword and then say I "claimed" it

I already explained why you wouldn't do that, try again

[Dunnstral]

pedit: Okay? And?

And that's why you're scummy

pedit2: If town doesn't know who's going for the sword neither do scum smart one.

Scum have a definite advantage in guessing at who will go for the sword - after all, scum can be vocal about going for the sword but they can't go for it. Once again try again

Pedit3: I sure do

Well I disagree with that, I don't think SS went for the sword and I don't think it looked like he was going to

[Dunnstral]

I love how Dunn has tried to make so many points against me and they've all been proven debunked and yet he's still going for it. He's not trying to solve he's trying to find excuses to sr me.

So are you calling me scum or what?

[Dunnstral]

Look who scum nightkilled. Someone in my list.

I don't think there was any real indication that S_S was going for the sword, though?

You writing a name down in a list doesn't matter

It does look good for Maria though because why does scum!Maria kill one of 4 people she suggested claim the sword?

Nobody is under any obligation to listen to Maria, especially when she announces her plans in twilights before anyone can discuss it

Can you point out some evidence that suggests that Somethign_smart was going for the sword, or that he was otherwise especially likely to listen to MariaR there?

I never said he was, my point was it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense for scum!Maria to kill 1 out of the 4 people she suggested claim it.

Why not?

I don't understand, EVEN IF ss were going for the sword, killing the town that goes for the sword is good for scum, right?

Furthermore, MariaR isn't so arrogant to believe that she can order SS around to claim the sword with her twilight list after she was just the target of a townie's duel

[Dunnstral]

So who's scum then, Nancy?

[Dunnstral]

People keep saying ss could have been killed to 'frame varsoon', but Varsoon isn't who he wanted dead

[Dunnstral]

pedit: Okay? And?

And that's why you're scummy

pedit2: If town doesn't know who's going for the sword neither do scum smart one.

Scum have a definite advantage in guessing at who will go for the sword - after all, scum can be vocal about going for the sword but they can't go for it. Once again try again

Pedit3: I sure do

Well I disagree with that, I don't think SS went for the sword and I don't think it looked like he was going to

1) Why does saying I'm going for the sword and then switching to not=scummy when scum me can just claim to go for it regardless.
2) You're wrong. Scum have more numbers of people but that doesn't mean it still isn't a guessing game for them. So why don't you try again.

3) how convenient of an answer ^_^

1) I explained that.
2) I'm not wrong, if players a b c d announce they'll go for the sword, but player b is scum, scum have a better chance of knowing where the sword will go than town do.
3) I know you would never make this response as town, I gaurantee it

[Dunnstral]

I didn't order S_S to go for the sword.

The people going for the sword should be SS UT Dva Kokichi

[Dunnstral]

Who's scum?

[Dunnstral]

You keep telling yourself that ^-^

[Dunnstral]

PenguinPower replaces Ariane.

Where is this guy

[Dunnstral]

PenguinPower replaces Ariane.

Where is this guy

Why aren't you gladiating me?

Fake and scummy reaction, I'll bite though: Why should I have been gladiating you?

[Dunnstral]

???

[Dunnstral]

You quoted a post where I quoted you replacing in, then asked why I wasn't gladiating and said that I've "never not scum read you in a game" (I don't think that's true, by the way)

As if to say I should have been gladiating you before you ever said anything, but not because of a read on your predeccessor, just because I 'always scumread you'

[Dunnstral]

HURT: Kokichi Oma

[Dunnstral]

I haven’t really scrutinized MariaR like that yet
I can try I guess

What is this in response to, by the way? I can't figure out what you're talking about

[Dunnstral]

HURT: Kokichi Oma

can you expand on this?

Go read up on VeridianCleric's iso again and then compare it to Kokichi and we can figure out which is the "mia slot" that isn't generating content

[Dunnstral]

Rather Kokichi looks scummy and at the very least he's coasting hard for some reason

[Dunnstral]

And somebody else pointed out that he dropped his varsoon read in recent posting

[Dunnstral]

That kokichi read is out of left field tbh

keep sniping at me from the sidelines, see where that gets you

[Dunnstral]

That kokichi read is out of left field tbh

keep sniping at me from the sidelines, see where that gets you

We both know you don't have the balls to gladiate me soooo

Keep em' coming!

[Dunnstral]

[SirCakez Gamma Emerald]
[Kokichi Oma Varsoon Elsa Jay]
[PenguinPower]
[Frozen Angel VeridianCleric]
[Auro Firebringer Nancy Drew 39]
[Dva Untrod Tripod]
Pedit: That's not the point. People are waiting for a gladiate period no matter if I made a case on every person in this game it wouldn't help because no one is doing shit.

Few questions here:

Do you disbelieve Koki? Confused why you'd put him at tier 2

Why is PP above FA/Veridian?

Why is Cakez a top townread? Why is Elsa?

Also, why is Nancy a leanscum?

And where am I?

[Dunnstral]

a flip on you will help me sort Dunn

?? Don't try this DVa

[Dunnstral]

Unfortunately for Maria and whoever the fuck the real Merlin is, I'm actually the one who pulled the sword.

VOTE: Maria

Was hoping you could somehow survive 2 gladiates in a row, gal. A lie is a lie, though, and you gotta perish for it.

Are you serious? I CC this, I didn't want to have to out like this but I'm actually Merlin, UT is Arthur and MariaR has the sword, notice how I pushed both of them to further my own goals

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Dunnstral]

You're full of shit.
I'm Merlin.
Elsa Jay is Arthur.
Maria R has the sword.

I faked hard at grabbing the sword N1 to throw scum off my scent and not kill me N1.

Don't cheapen my claim thanks

[Dunnstral]

DVa pointing to a reads list I'm not even in in 1800 then saying to flip Maria to "sort me better" is off

[Dunnstral]

UT has the sword

Maria has it

[Dunnstral]

Yeah they are lying, since I'm Merlin

[Dunnstral]

Want to team up as fellow Merlin?

I'm not even fake claiming though

Why do you guys think I said UT should grab the sword yesterday? I didn't make it obvious and I didn't try to convince people to not go for the sword, but still, that's all I could do. I even pressured him so he'd feel compelled to go for the sword

[Dunnstral]

Is there a reason you're still voting for Maria, Elsa?

[Dunnstral]

But you don't have it

[Dunnstral]

Vote:Unvote

Yeah I am not Merlin.
I think Dunnstral is the real Merlin.
This means that Arthur and Merlin will die while MariaR will be kept for us as Bulletproof IC - that should be good enough.
I think we should probably lynch Firebringer now, because a NoLynch just reduces the number of mislynches avaliable by one in this situation. Am I wrong?

How much of the game have you read? Because it kind of looks like you're getting info from scum chat right now with the way you jumped straight into the game and fake claimed merlin then talked about the sword and bulletproof ic

[Dunnstral]

This looks like Nancy's town game to me

[Dunnstral]

DVa pointing to a reads list I'm not even in in 1800 then saying to flip Maria to "sort me better" is off

First, Dunn-chan, you don't need Maria's reads list to know that you two have been having one of your little tiffs, so cute! :3

But beyond that, that was all just wifom for the scum since secretly I'm Merlin and I know you're Arthur!

winky face

So me pushing Maria = I'm scum if Maria is town?

I'm just curious where your mind is at, in reality it was just wifom anyway since I knew she had the sword

[Dunnstral]

Because Merlin says so.

Now vote fire

Bullshit.
I am Merlin. Firebringer is Arthur.
Lynch MariaR.

VOTE:MariaR

Vote:Unvote

Yeah I am not Merlin.
I think Dunnstral is the real Merlin.
This means that Arthur and Merlin will die while MariaR will be kept for us as Bulletproof IC - that should be good enough.
I think we should probably lynch Firebringer now, because a NoLynch just reduces the number of mislynches avaliable by one in this situation. Am I wrong?

As I said earlier these are some weird posts for somebody just replacing in to be making

[Dunnstral]

Why not? Fishing for the sword holder?

which only happens if she really bought NN15's claim that Fire was Arthur.

...except Merlin

knows who has the sword

I'm not sure what elsa thinks she's doing right now

Maria has the sword. I'm telling you guys this.

If she thought nn15 was Merlin that doesn't lead her to claiming to have the sword right after a Merlin claim

[Dunnstral]

If you guys don't understand why I came into the day pushing on Maria when I knew she had the sword I can go over it if you'd like?

[Dunnstral]

If you guys don't understand why I came into the day pushing on Maria when I knew she had the sword I can go over it if you'd like?

Yeah, please do? To see who pushes her too?

i find the likelyhood that dunnie is merlin and maria has the sword at 0 odds if i was a gambling man.
and i work in a casino, so i know something about odds

Alright, first I'll go over Why it makes sense for me to be merlin with UT as Arthur, briefly.

I come into the game pushing on UT, my intention is threefold

A) Make him less likely to get night killed, as a townie with a 'wrong' read on another townie (also makes me less likely to get nightkilled, perfect as Merlin on day 1
B) Subtly push him towards claiming the sword, by having a scumread on him
C) Actively push for him to take the sword, without arousing scum suspicion

Here was my proposed plan:

How about we let Varsoon, UT, and LLD go for the sword? They've all already volunteered their intentions to go for the sword, and they seemed pretty bent on going for it

...and then I lynched LLD, leaving Varsoon and UT going for the sword (and kokichi, maybe... and apparently Maria after that day)

Now, moving onto Maria - except let's actually look at her read on Something_Smart:

I only really want Maria to get it if LLD is scum, because it means that scum wanted Maria out of the way for a reason. And I do think there's a decent chance of a bus... people bus in situations where it seems dumb, precisely because it seems so dumb nobody would expect it, and clearly LLD thought she was going down anyway.

So, you’re thinking that LLD is bussing Maria for towncred, hoping someone other than her claims the sword?

Well, yeah. At the time of LLD's challenge, it looked extremely unlikely that we'd be able to orchestrate a plan where a single person claims the sword, probably based in large part due to Varsoon's bamboozle. I don't think scum-LLD would have been expecting scum-Maria to be forced to claim the sword after just winning a gladiate against flipped scum.

This is prob scum.

So Maria is town, and SS was town, and they both scumread each other. So why, then, would SS die?
People came into the day acting like it was a sign that somebody was framing VARSOON, I don't think that's true. After all, did SS ever call Varsoon scum...?
He called Maria scum, so by that logic I concluded: Scum didn't care about this interaction between ss and Maria where they both scumread each other

Scum killed SS and in the back of their mind they were thinking that Maria was going to get lynched today, for sure

I realize this after some thinking after the day starts, as I know Maria has the sword and is therefore town. It doesn't matter how hard I push on her because I wasn't going to let her by lynched, worst case scenario no lynch is an option. So I push on her, seeing who else will bite on the maria = scum.

So let's look at my push on her, with that in mind:

So does Maria want to talk about that straight up scum flailing at the end of the day there, or what?

Scumtastic

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Wow you scumreading maria? Why?

Want to hear more from FA slot given I have a slot of tr's and I think scum can be in the lurker slots.

Scumtastic

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Why? This post sound more NAI to me.

I'm also referencing her posts at the end of yesterday where she suddenly announced that she wasn't going for the sword

What's really strange is it also feels like she already knows LLD is going to flip town in those posts

First posts aren't me giving reasons for why she's scummy, but inviting other people to join in or disagree or whatever. Then I give a pretty generic response for why she's scum that only talks about the scummy looking (which it is, admittedly) end of day

I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Wow you scumreading maria? Why?

And what's your read on her?

Me asking for a read from Kokichi, he never gives one and I later look at him again and decide he looks like coasting scum.

People keep saying ss could have been killed to 'frame varsoon', but Varsoon isn't who he wanted dead

Still true

I haven’t really scrutinized MariaR like that yet
I can try I guess

What is this in response to, by the way? I can't figure out what you're talking about

Me trying to figure out what's going on here because it references Maria

And you know what came of that?

I believe Nancy's reads and think she's town, I'm eyeing Gamma for the way he treated Maria, and Fire came in thinking he could get a lynch off on her

Guess what? That makes him scummy. It doesn't matter what you think of his tone, he fell into the pattern of 'get tired of waiting for Maria to go down and lynch herself - people have a bad habit of thinking, as scum, that scum has to gladiate in games like this or else they'll stick out - further, it looked likely to fire that he would be able to push the lynch through without taking flak himself.

Everyone else is blatantly fakeclaiming to try to provide cover for 'the real merlin' (me) - I've got details and plans that lend credence to my own claim, I don't want to nolynch, fire has a decent chance of being scum

[Dunnstral]

Further scum thought maria for sure didn't have the sword. She hid it well, even while being pushed on.

[Dunnstral]

So you want to lynch Ana for the shitty gladiate then? I know Fire does some wacky shit as scum but this is like ridiculous even for him

What part about it is 'ridiculous' exactly? He didn't know maria had the sword.

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't against Maria going for the sword (even though I townread her yesterday) because other people (Like DVa) simply don't listen to my read on Maria - that's been proven to great effect - admittedly I also thought lld was flipping scum here for rushing into a gladiate with Maria like that

[Dunnstral]

Once again, Fire, gladiating Maria here was in no way "wacky"

[Dunnstral]

I mean I kinda think Fire as scum would recognize it's a real possibility?

No, because Maria was adamant about not having the sword before she got gladiated. Expecting fire to predict that Maria would go for the sword with the way she was acting requires a greater understanding of the way mariar plays this game - something that I know he doesn't have

[Dunnstral]

you aren't good at reading me,

That doesn't make me any less merlin, and doesn't make Maria have any less of a swordholder. I'm not reading you based on tone this game, I predicted scum actions and then you fell into that pattern

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn, what do you think of Kokichi?

I think I wrote about him in that big post up there, right? He's scummy