Open 741: Red Flag [Endgame]

[Nibbui]

Hey there, I'm an alt of Yuurei/Fumuki if anyone still remembers me

It's nice to meet some people again and hi to everyone I still don't know

that said, both #52 from gamma and #88 from MEMEMAN looks lamist

but I'll go for

VOTE: Aster

Gamma might have sounded lamist, but I think MEMEMAN was even worse in these two posts:

Spoiler:

Curious to see what happens when the worst meets Radiant Cowbells

weird - for 2 players that have been onsite for so long, I would think they'd have bumped into each other

-LH

^ kinda cherrypicking in my opinion

Spoiler:

All this talk about jesters - you guys sure you're in the right game and not in Jester Nightless by Jingle, instead? lol

Also, shouldn't we be careful about who we vote? Because if scum is well coordinated, then after we vote, they could just pile on all 4 as 4 more votes.

^ kinda really lamist if I compare him here to a Micro I saw him playing
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

and Aster seemed to realize how the post seemed a bit off here:

Spoiler:

Also, shouldn't we be careful about who we vote? Because if scum is well coordinated, then after we vote, they could just pile on all 4 as 4 more votes.

✓ Statement meant to look townish;
✓ Statement not actually helpful.

[/quote]

However, she didn't change votes or got much interested on MEME MAN even though his posts seems way worse than Gamma's I would say (we can argue about that), and the same can be said to Keyser maybe.



(/confirm by the way NSG)

[Nibbui]

MEME MEN: yikes. This one lied about meta with me. That’s a solid scum marker.

vote: THE MEME MEN

Where did he lie about meta? I double checked his ISO and didn't see him commenting about meta anywhere

[Nibbui]

You say you go by Fumaki? Er, Fukami, uh, Fumuki? Alright. Also you’re Yuurei which is interesting, please stay in the game this time.
Also your post links are broken

I'll try to stay in the game and about the broken links it can't be helped, I did forget how to use some scripts so I messed up

...And I broke the site.[/color

I almost thought that it was my computer's fault

Right Head has it right. I think I’ll trust the hydra partner when they say Left Head is out of it.

Unvote

By unvoting here you mean that he forgetting about you was the unique reason you voted him? You said you did tryhard as town but doesn't seem to have noticed or get interested in the two suspiscious posts by MEMEMAN?

[Nibbui]

Yeah that was my reason. I skimmed over that part of your post, because I was just like “hm they’re scumreading MEME MEN too, that’s nice
I’ll look it over

I don't want to cherrypick and I we can accidentaly skip over the details sometimes but look how it sounds for me:

You said you were actually scum reading MEMEMAN but skipped over two of his posts (when normally we would analyse better someone's posts when we suspect them), and as people were suspecting MEMEMAN because of those posts, if you didn't know what posts they were talking about, you simply wasn't wondering other people intentions or motives for scumreading MEMEMAN, and that means a non-town behavior

can you help me sort out if I'm wrong here?

[Nibbui]

Fumukiiiii you'reee baaaaack

sad that the worst had to leave tho :/

Yo Ceejay

I hope duckling is ok as well

[Nibbui]

Statement not actually helpful

it actually is, considering there are players who just quick vote rashly
this setup is innately scum sided. anyone who disagrees , feel free to explain. I actually wish we got scum role but we didn't

It just seemed forced in my opinion MEMEMAN, it's not like scum team can just go quicklynching everyone

About it being town sided or scum sided, I think that day 1 is what is going to tell us. If we lynch scum day 1, things get a lot easier.

@yuurei what micro was this? I don't remember us playing a micro , ever

-LH

Sorry, I confused. It was not a micro, it was a mini normal.

Mini normal 2021
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76702

We didn't play together though, I just replaced out of the game and read it all after

[Nibbui]

Aster, nothing to comment about my post talking about you?

The posts you commented are after it so I'm just saying in case you did skip mine

[Nibbui]

VOTE: Nibbui
Don't start discussing things before I get to vote and say something funny at the start. Rude

b-but it was too late for RVS puns!

I was like "oh boy I want to post a gif as well ~" but we were already near the end of RVS

I didn’t skip his posts, I skipped your analysis of those. Otherwise your analysis was right, you just have the wrong motivation. I was trying to put out my RQS conclusions and didn’t want to delay it, lus general laziness.

then if you didn't skip his posts and was only voting him for not remembering you, does it mean you have no problems with his posts?

[Nibbui]

I'm hoping Aster is town here, it would be quite troublesome otherwise...

I think your explanation is pretty valid Aster, but not that I'm accusing you, however you seem like the kind of player that could easily come with that explanation as scum even if you didn't had that motive at that time

but yeah, that was a good explanation.

then if you didn't skip his posts and was only voting him for not remembering you, does it mean you have no problems with his posts?

Not really.

That's quite troubling...

Also I noticed talking about calling people LAMIST without voting to see how they’d respond so I’ll respond to my accusation of that by saying that’s a fair statement, but it was an earnest question I asked.[/color]

We didn't call it LAMIST only for the reactions though...but yeah, it might be frustating to be suspected (as either alignment) but bear with us because it is hard to believe on people here.

[Nibbui]

I would see MEME’s posts as NAI/set up talk/part RVS filler.

However, Gamma’s entrance was more strained:
- asking other players their thoughts on the alignment of players during pre-game (where most players were just meme’ng) (?)

Yeah, I understand how it was off to actually ask about anyone alignment when most of the thread was puns, however I still hold my point because of this part:

Also, shouldn't we be careful about who we vote?

Because if scum is well coordinated, then after we vote, they could just pile on all 4 as 4 more votes.

He's saying for us to be careful when there was only people throwing RVS votes, it seemed just as "too soon" as Gamma's question, and I have a easier time seeing a bored town wanting to start a conversation with someone by asking "any thoughts on anyone alignment?" than a town that by seeing RVS says for us to not vote so rashly.

Plus, thinking that after we vote scum team could quickly hammer someone without raising suspicious is kinda...

I mean, maybe MEMEMAN said that genuinely, I can see that, however it just seems more likely to come from scum for now in my opinion.

[Nibbui]

Forgot to switch votes

VOTE: MEMEMAN

It is a hard choice between voting Gamma or MEMEMAN though...

[Nibbui]

not to mention it feels like everyone suddenly hates everyone

It's pretty pacific though in my opinion?

Please stay Clemency, I don't think anyone is hating anyone, and we just are trying to get out of RVS and get some reactions and explanations.

[Nibbui]

eh, i think i'm projecting
can someone teach me how to v/la i've never done it before

up there, in "User Control Panel", next to the number of "new messages". Click there, and afterwards go the "V/LA" tab that is there.

Once there, you insert when the V/LA begins and when it ends.

[Nibbui]

do i need to inform all the mods seperately too?

Not really, just inform Northsidegal if you're going to be off for more than 48 hours

[Nibbui]

Oh wait, you meant the mods of the games you are in?

I thought you were talking about the site mods.

Yes, you need to inform all the mods of your games if you are going to be offline for more than 48h

[Nibbui]

By the way, I skipped the first discussion 'cause it seemed too early to be serious, but I'll read it now since, as I understand, it was serious for some players.

In other news, I didn't like BJs' entrance. The post was fine, I laughed, but seems like it was prepared before the game started. My problema with that is that it was a huge post and it's obvious that took a lot of effort. I tend to scumread people who puts that much of an effort on RVS; preparing a post before the game starts is past that line. Does someone else has another point of view about this?

by BJ's entrance do you mean 72 or do you mean 102?

If it's #72 I can see you already just joking but if it is about #102 maybe you are serious...sometimes I don't know when you are being sarcastic...

If it's about #102, sure, it is a big post and mostly a pun, but why do you think that it actually was prepared before the game? She would have time to actually write it right there in my opinion?

[Nibbui]

#102, of course. I think it was prepared before the game because it has some quotes of other games, it's way too well prepared to be done just when the game started.

Actually, the quotes part is indeed a good evidence. The game had started it had been 2 hours, to actually write down that post, while going out of your way to link another game, it seems indeed to have been planned before.

It could be just for the meme though, but yeah, BJ has been kinda floating in the game by constantly saying non-relevant things

They said that they think MEME is kinda scummy but although we've been talking about MEME it's been some time, she didn't seem interested at all.

[Nibbui]

I know ofhrz and I know her MEME STYLE

Can I be the Psy to your CL?

Doesn't mean you have to townread me, but tell me who you think I should vote rn other than myself :3

mmmmh, not trying to cherrypick but it sounds pretty bad when you say "tell me who I should vote for"

MEMEMAN, you're not helping yourself here, as either alignment

[Nibbui]

Normal town: Aster
Meme-town: Blackjacks

I'm quite interested on your town read of Blackjacks. They haven't posted their thoughts at all except in one post, so that means that you're town reading them for their behavior right?

If you think that's town-BJ behavior, what do you think they would be doing as scum?

I mean, I would appreciate if you explained this read.

BoP Scum: Keyser Söze

Current interest: Nibbui

VOTE: Nibbui

Before you had said you were insterested in Keyser but couldn't put your finger around it, has that changed?

Also, why are you insterested in me?

[Nibbui]

Before you had said you were insterested in Keyser but couldn't put your finger around it, has that changed?

Actually I said Keyser was probably scum and that's all I've said about his slot, I never said I couldn't put my finger around him. Although one must ask, can anyone ever put their finger around Keyser Soze? Like that, he's gone...

Oh right, I think it was Gamma that said about being interested in Keyzer but not knowing exactly what. Sorry.

I'm still insterested on a explanation of your town read on BJ though, and what do you think they would be doing as scum?

[Nibbui]

I still would be inclined to believe that ruru is town here

why and how would you differentiate town-ruru in early game to scum-ruru in early game?

Sorry if it's a drag to explain but I would appreciate if you or anyone townreading BJ did so

[Nibbui]

i think tw slot and keyser slot are svs

I know you said that your thought was "stupid" in the next post, but was there a reason for you to actually think of their interaction as svs?

[Nibbui]

prepare to witness non-content the likes of which you have never seen before

I hadn't the opportunity to post random gifs, so please get us back to some kind of RVS situation filled with non-content where my gifs will be justified

I know you can do it Clemency

[Nibbui]

i'm trying to find the words to say why i don't like blackjacks

I kinda feel you, although I would argue their last post did recover some point for them.

What do you think?

[Nibbui]

OMG, thank you so much Clemency for helping us move out of RVS!!! You're the best

i mean this is just one point and i have some bias since
ow, my feelings
but it seems like a bit of a harsh reaction on a throwaway post i made

I guess you can say it's kinda really sarcastic since they weren't helping us to move out of RVS at all as well

Dunno if it can be interpreted as AI though. I don't know Ruru playstyle at all.

[Nibbui]

The point against MEME MEN wrt cherrypicking, I don’t really see it. What is that being cherrypicked out of? As for the LAMIST post, yeah what was already said is fair, I’d consider giving MEME MEN a pass if new but they’re probably not new.

I looked back on it and about the cherrypicking may be a bit of an interpretation maybe. I feel like MEMEMEN right head isn't new, and might have very well know that The worst and Radiant have already played together, and more than once at that. Also, he puts some emphasis in "weird".

That lead me to be able to take the post both as a innocent question just as them subtly meaning "I kinda think Radiant and TW have already played together, so when you say *the worst meets Radiant* does it mean that you're implying they are from different alignments and are going to face each other?"

it broke again
Idk what the heck you did Nibbui but both times I quoted your post it broke things

It's probably the anime image. I recommend you guys to either delete it or fix it before quoting that post I guess .

[Nibbui]

once again anime is the cause of all our problems

Clemency, the truth hurts too much...

Please just say that it can't be helped

[Nibbui]

Looking back on it...

Knowing the towniness of Ruru is not something that can be explained, it is something you must let yourself feel in your heart

-rh

What game(s) are you using as samples to "know the towniness" of Ruru?

Also Blackjack, I kinda think it would be +EV town to sign your posts. It only confuses town to not do so, therefore I would honestly appreciate if you guys did go that extra mile and helped us out

[Nibbui]

In other news, I didn't like BJs' entrance

. The post was fine, I laughed, but seems like it was prepared before the game started. My problema with that is that it was a huge post and it's obvious that took a lot of effort.

I tend to scumread people who puts that much of an effort on RVS; preparing a post before the game starts is past that line

.

Even if I still believed that the message was prepared beforehand, I still would be inclined to believe that ruru is town here

Pintu, help me here sort this out, but for me it seems like you really had something against BlackJacks in 185 for their big post, very close to a scum read, however after us debating it a little and not thinking it's a big deal, you say in 233 that you would still townread BlackJacks even if you did believe in their post being made beforehand.

My point is that I kinda don't feel that how you adressed BJ in 185 comes from someone that genuinely believes her to be towny in a general sense.

Am I wrong somewhere?

[Nibbui]

Mmmh, I've got interested here (not necessarily scum reading)

VOTE: Pintu

Pintu, about Ruru meta, you said she was that way in the game you guys played. However, do you think that would be a reliable tell here?

[Nibbui]

I think I explained my thought process pretty damn well in 233, the part you cut off I mean.

This is the part I cut off:

Spoiler:

Ok, I'm backing off with this. The "incompetent" thing made me realize that I was proyecting my own incompetence to compose messages quickly because of my lack of experience in forums in general and because of my bad english, so the quoting on the message surprised me. I mean, I could compose that message in two hours too, but I wouldn't because... it would take me two hours and that's not worth it

You had explained your thought process behind finding the big post bad there, not how although you did think Ruru was towny you seemed to be suspicious of her (What is my point, which you didn't explain until now here:

ruru's reaction, more than the "discussion", was that made me remember ruru's town meta.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're making it look like I changed my mind because people started pressuring my point of view, which is not the case.

When I said that you changed your view because of pressuring? My main point is that you seemed suspicious of BJ's big post, but later said that even if you were right in your suspicious, you would still town read her, what seemed to me as if that big post discussion wasn't as relevant to you as you made it sound before.

The answer would be what you said in a part of this post, that you just got a town read on Ruru afterwards.

I mean, I'm not trying to paint it on any color, that was kinda defensive of you pintu, but yeah sometimes might be normal to get like that I guess...

[Nibbui]

Mmmh, I've got interested here (not necessarily scum reading)

VOTE: Pintu

Pintu, about Ruru meta, you said she was that way in the game you guys played. However, do you think that would be a reliable tell here?

I don't understand your question

Do you think Ruru's scum meta would be the same here?

[Nibbui]

Pintu, you're kinda getting too defensive with me again...

MEMEMEN might be questioning you about the veracity of your read, however I was questioning your thought process behind your actions, that for now had been your read/discussion on Ruru. That's not the same thing and I would appreciate if you didn't put us together in a little nice box .

About the statement "overconfident ruru = town ruru" I don't know, but what I observed in Ruru's scum game while reading today, was that she was very argumentative and always engaged in discussion opposed to what we've been seeing here: a more non-serious Ruru and not-so-engaged Ruru. I was curious though wondering wheter she could have changed her scum meta but...maybe not...

Well, let's keep going

[Nibbui]

Now to the polemic question:

Are scum going to buss or not?

[Nibbui]

Ok yeah, this is the second time you say this and you're right. In my defense, you actually voted for me, even if you said it wasn't because of a scumread but because of, let's say, "pushing" me to get some answers.

So even if you say I'm getting defensive, I am defending myself from a vote

, so...

I do get that. I don't think that defending yourself from a question or accusation is bad or scummy.

When I say "getting too defensive" it's because in two of your replies, you had one or two lines giving me backslash for what I would consider unjustified reasons:

I was neither saying you changed your read because of pressure, nor doing the same thing that MEMEMAN was (and those were the backslashs).

But well, it's not necessarily

that

AI, sometimes town can do it too, I myself included

[Nibbui]

Ah thanks. I’d probably call that out as either alignment? Is there a different reason that is town?

just your tone of your reply.
-LH

It might be a bit hard to explain but what part exactly of the tone you think was towny? and what kind of reaction you think he would have as scum?

I would appreciate if you could answer this.

[Nibbui]

I had a feeling it would come to this...

I'm hoping Aster is town here, it would be quite troublesome otherwise...

I get what Aster is saying honestly. LH beat a lot around the bush in some questions, be it from Aster or from other people (me included), but dunno what to do with that. I feel like lynching MEMEMAN, mostly because of the LH, ever since I joined the game.

However, to be a bit of a devil's advocate, I too feel that Aster is trying to create a narrative to their point without considering much other possibilities to some facts. That is not necessarily AI though, it may just be Aster's playstyle, but yeah there's that.

I think it would help a lot if LH did name their main, that way we could get to known if he is just a bit self-destructive or if the bad posts here are actually scum-indicative.

[Nibbui]

Let's look for example in this post:

It seems plausible for scum to do it because I literally did that myself in my last scumgame (link.)

(Long story short: based on the town's lack of information there was a potential MyLo. Scum knew there was no MyLo. I then warned town about the potential MyLo to (1) slow down their operations, (2) make them think twice about lynching my troubled scumpartner, (3) score town points for myself.)

This is what I consider not-so-honest accusation. Look, the situation is actually quite different and I think you are aware of that, but either because you're a townie very enthusiastic in accusing or because you are Mafia only trying to accuse, I feel that you weren't completely intelectually-honest.

The difference is that in this game you had information that town didn't have, and since them didn't know, although your advice was bad from the informed perspective, from town perspective at that moment it sounded like a good advice.

We all knew about the four scum since the begin, and anyone thinking about it

a little

would figure both the benefits of scumteam bandwagoning just as well the difficults of doing so without arising suspicious. Majority of us thought it was bad from the get-go, there was no trick there.

Telling town to be careful sounds pretty townish, even if it is blatantly bad advice.

While this part and the rest are indeed true and honest. I can picture some players giving not-so-useful advice just to try looking Town, mostly when rolling scum, but sometimes even as town. It's a error to think people would necessarily calculate everything in my opinion.

I mean, you have a point, but just like within parts of the wallpost, you try to go over the extra mile and ends up kinda intelectually-dishonest. There was no need to link your game where a different situation happened only to try to have anedoctal evidence

I would let it pass this time around as I'm not so opposed to a MEMEMAN's lynch, however I feel like that would repeats itself over and over if not adressed right now.

[Nibbui]

@nibbui or anyone else: if I don't answer your questions , I may not have seen them. Or I just don't answer them because I find them irrelevant , and I do this as any alignment.
In terms of saying I'm self destructive, as town I'm not self destructive - as thor & perf say , don't be self destructive when town!

-LH

It's not so much as that you "don't answer the question at all" as it's that you answer, but your answer kinda only answers half or superficially what the question asked about usually.

by the way, you might have missed a new question from me:

Ah thanks. I’d probably call that out as either alignment? Is there a different reason that is town?

just your tone of your reply.
-LH

It might be a bit hard to explain but what part exactly of the tone you think was towny? and what kind of reaction you think he would have as scum?

I would appreciate if you could answer this.

Try to answer a bit more elaborated for us to get inside your head.

[Nibbui]

in related news, GE starting to look not so hot either, by sheeping that aster case

-LH

Aster has, like, a very good point there, it's not weird to agree with her. What I don't like about Gamma though is that until now he didn't see anything wrong with you, and even if he says "I got convinced by Aster's case", there is no way to prove that that is the case. Gamma was kinda lost before and didn't know what to do or who to vote, although it makes sense for him to sheep here as town, as scum makes more so in my vision, since there would be nothing better than a case he could get behind without taking much responsability, and if you're maybe his partner, not look bad afterwards.

[Nibbui]

I'm beginning to suspect that Aster likes to ignore me...It might be understandable though...

328 is solid.

What do you think of BlackJacks, Keyser, Gamma and Pintu though Aster? Not trying to sidetrack you, but you've not give us much of your opinion on them and I'm interested in your pov.

[Nibbui]

any first impression of nibbui?

-rh

nibbui looks alright to me for now. He's null

You meant "Nibbui looks so town omg" amiright?

[Nibbui]

I remember townreading Aster. Springtrap's posts look pretty bland, but nothing there pings as scummy to me yet.

Yeah, Springtap hasn't posted anything outright scummy, but then I just clicked on his ISO... I have a feeling he hasn't made a movement so far as to not upset anyone. I need to see him break some egg shells.

Mmmmmh, do you think it's a good idea to tell him that right now? Don't you think we could gain more by not saying anything for more some time?

I particularly think that not doing anything is pretty telling itself, but we can argue about that I guess

I like Nibbui so far.

[Nibbui]

Mmmmmh, do you think it's a good idea to tell him that right now? Don't you think we could gain more by not saying anything for more some time?

I particularly think that not doing anything is pretty telling itself, but we can argue about that I guess

In a game like this where the scum:town ratio is so high, I feel we need everyone to stand up. We're at a stage where we should be pointing fingers. There is no town PR-gambit to stay low radar.

Yeah but don't you think that instead of a PR-gambit he just may not be that interested in solving or getting in conflict and that might means

that

?

[Nibbui]

So when is the other half of the player list going to show up?

-rh

From my count, I count 2 others who are willfully not posting here.

-LH

One of them is volxen, got it. But who is the other one?

Also, paying close attention to the details, and his last time online (that I'm assuming to be around the moment of his last post), do you think that it's scummy of Volxen to not have posted here yet?

I prefer my narrative right now which stops him from getting comfortable.

I see, that makes sense I guess

[Nibbui]

Aster, I'll read carefully your post about your reads afterwards.

I kinda feel that we gotta throw in a shitposting stage again just when things were progressing

That's kinda frustating, but I guess it can't be helped huh

Just got way less interested in this game though honestly...

[Nibbui]

shitposting and effort can live in harmony, friend

you could create a philosophy based on that maybe

I kinda disagree though.

Aster, I'll read carefully your post about your reads afterwards.

I kinda feel that we gotta throw in a shitposting stage again just when things were progressing

That's kinda frustating, but I guess it can't be helped huh

Just got way less interested in this game though honestly...

complain harder, i will shitpost harder

You're quite funny sometimes Fire, I laughed when I saw some of your posts in other games

But yeah, I was interested in playing a different this game in a different way

Nibbui is demoralized because Volxen is a caught scumbuddy

-rh

okay...

[Nibbui]

interested in playing this game in a different way*

[Nibbui]

uh in what way

less memey I guess

VOTE: unvote

I might just sheep either Aster or Keyzel to be honest, they're not town at all and I can find points in their posts that can come from scum, but they seem townier than the rest at least

[Nibbui]

uh in what way

less memey I guess

VOTE: unvote

I might just sheep either Aster or Keyzel to be honest, they're not town at all and I can find points in their posts that can come from scum, but they seem townier than the rest at least

i am very townie sir

you will need to pocket me if you want a town read from me fire

maybe start with growlithe gifs, I like them

You're quite funny sometimes Fire, I laughed when I saw some of your posts in other games

But yeah, I was interested in playing a different this game in a different way

thanks, i try to entertain. mostly myself.

this was a good line

but i am not playing this game any real differently and u wont like me playing serious if u read a game of me serious. i am a drama llama when i get cereal

I saw you playing a serious game, I think it was an large normal with rules that allowed busier people to play (forgot the name).
I'm not saying for you to try to play serious at all but if I can ask (and you don't really need to hear me) please talk and argue a bit more in-depth about your reads when you get them

[Nibbui]

RC u can sheep me on disaster aster, you can assume if u think i am scum that i am bussing.

I mean, was your vote on Aster only for the pun or not?

If not, what are your reasons?

I assumed you were joking but here you tell RC to consider Aster and I don't know if that is serious or not as well

[Nibbui]

"I aster, said that it's from town. Meme men said it may not.
Meme men cautioned about voting rashly but I think he's scum for saying that?"

What on earth are you even saying here anymore in this tangled web?

-LH

Like, she can be wrong about scum reading you but the post you are talking about makes perfect logical sense, and she even considers the possibility you can be town.

However here you come again and post utterly incomprehensible logic. I don't think it was difficult to understand what she meant, I feel wrote this out of bad faith be you scum or town and that's bad if you're green.

Truth to be told, you're doing various actions out of bad faith in my opinion and if you are town I would like you to stop since each mislynch here is a pretty heavy penalty.

If town focuses on expressing themselves in good faith and getting their mindset and thought process across, it is a lot easier to play since there's a good chance at least on of the four in the scum team might mess up somewhere a bit.

Same deal can be said about most of RH's actions

[Nibbui]

395 is pretty logically solid. It's not like everyone is playing in a logical mindset though, but yeah, there's a point there.

For a very logical-oriented player like Aster, someone playing as contradictory as MEMEMEN is going to get pushed by her independent of hers alignment. Either because as town she might scum read him, or because as scum she'll see him as someone she can push and make solid cases that are going to be generally logically correct and hard to critique.

It would be good if MEMEMEN's behavior could only come from scum but unhappily it's not impossible for it to come from town.

Like, as long as MEMEMEN keep up this highly contradictory behavior I don't think we'll get a firm read on Aster since she'll not need to go off by speculations (what would be way more helpful to read her), but will always have the perfect inquestionably case where we always look at MEMEMAN and wonder "is he just scum or is he kinda thoughtless?".

I have read 393 (Aster's reads), and although it's a pretty/good post and I appreciate you did answer my request, I dunno, I don't feel like you did write anything outside of my projection of what you could replicate as scum, unhappily. The effort you're putting in these posts it's admirable though. Thanks anyway.

[Nibbui]

I dont know what part of this game to take seriously anymore. I dont think that's a good sign.

I dont know what part of this game to take seriously anymore. I dont think that's a good sign.

Thoughts on the current wagons?

I will answer this again when the votecount is updated, but all I'm seeing right now is mainly filler and fluff in a game where we should probably be more worried. You know, since 4 of us are evil out of 13 (or 15, I guess, if we count the accounts with multiple people).

I'll wait until later for more critical judgement, and mostly so I can see what is purely friendship and what is attempted buddying.

Can you please start giving us some reads already?

You don't need to wait anymore at all, you've already waited it's been 18 pages

Also, what interests us more would be original arguments and reads by the way, and that's a valid request to Volxen as well because that post of his reads doesn't have anything outside of the consensus.

VOTE: SpringTrap

[Nibbui]

alright i'm gonna try and take this game a bit more serious because i dont wanna be a detriment to anyone's enjoyment

Thanks and sorry if I come off too bothersome yesterday, I was kinda down although I think I half had a point.

I'll as well try to not be so serious/cherrypick to not be a detriment to yours and Fire's enjoyment I guess

Then, do you have any original thoughts in store? I'm kinda insterested if it's something someone already said as well but not half as much as I'm on something original.

[Nibbui]

Nibbui, why do you feel a pressure vote on SpringTrap is more valuable than a pressure vote on Volxen, given that SpringTrap has 1900% the number of posts as Volxen?

-RH

haha

do you believe me if I say I was like "MEMEMEN will question why I would rather vote Spring than Volxen" on that post before?

It's quite simple though, it's because Volxen

tried

to contribute and fell flat. Spring doesn't even tried, and while Volxen replaced a bit ago and probably only got to look at the game recently, Spring has been around since the begin, and frequently comes to the thread, only to float around with his non-relevant posts.

By the way let's talk more about Volxen since you're on his back. I think that there is three points against Volxen right now

1 - Back there he logged on and didn't post here
2 - His posts are only repeating what has been said and are kinda superficial
3 - There's some accusations of his play here being similar to his scum meta

2 I know to be right, and 3 I need to check but don't see much why as either alignment BJ and Clemency would lie (need to check if they are

that

accurate though). However, I think point 1 is kinda irrelevant.

You guys accused him of the Ellitell, posting somewhere else while not posting in a certain game.

However, in my vision the Ellitell works on cases where the player is

purely

not interested in posting on that game while posting on others, if he might have had other reasons that tell fells flat. Volxen had only logged in for some time back then, and although he posted in one game, Keyser already said he didn't post in another one he is in as well.

There's even one more

concretei] argument that be him scum or not here, point number 1 is meaningless, however I can't comment it

yet

because of the rules, so you need to check out Volxen more carefully by yourself.

My conclusion is that he probably was busy with that specific game. Sometimes you log in and focus on one game at that day, even more if something important is happening over there.

Anyway, in other words, I think Volxen is scummy right now for reasons 2 & 3, but before he had posted here it was NAI. If you are town and had thought about this long enough, and researched a bit more, I expected you to reach this conclusion, and that's why I questioned you back there even.

But well, you didn't gain some town points this time

[Nibbui]

There's even one more

concrete

argument that be him scum or not here, point number 1 is meaningless, however I can't comment it

yet

because of the rules, so you need to check out Volxen more carefully by yourself.

Ugh, the typos.

Fixed part of the above message here.

My mouse is acting all weird nowadays

[Nibbui]

Mmmmmh, no need to pick a fight, let's just leave it at that

volxen is town

I was looking on RC's ISO and just noticed that I missed this before

why do you think that Volxen is towny Radiant?

[Nibbui]

What was your motivation in making this post? The part about warning people about voting. We aren't in lylo, so why would all four scum be inclined to all join the same wagon and quicklynch a townie on day one, when that would potentially bring all four of them under a lot of scrutiny on day two? Especially if the four scum were all the last four voters on the wagon and quickly voted back-to-back to bring the wagon to lynch. In lylo it would make sense for that to happen, but it doesn't make sense for the scumteam to do that on day one. It seems strange to be discouraging voting this early on in the game, especially since voting/pressuring is one way to help the game transition from "RVS" to "serious mode".

this is towny and the only real reason to scumread them is lack of content. it's just a generic bad wagon

I mean, that is exactly what all of us said back there

He perhaps didn't even need to think about this argument if he is scum, and that applies to most of the arguments in that post

I think that yes it might be too early to decide that the lynch today is him like Clemency suggested, but yeah, I don't feel as he isn't a viable option if nothings changes.

One of many options though.

Do you disagree with my reasoning?

[Nibbui]

we're not lynching town because that town happens to not be posting in the game

yeah, I agree we can't go about lynching people just because they aren't that active

but I mean, it's not only that he isn't posting much, but because what he is posting fell flat as well? you could say there's a problem in his posts after all?

Again, I can agree that there might have been an overemphasis on it, however don't you think that some of the accusations points are still very solid?

[Nibbui]

towns are bad and at least one push on them (blackjack) is coming from scum

Mmmmmh, in my opinion town performance is highly situational, but I can see from where you are coming from.

Why do you think that BlackJack is particularly the scum on the wagon though?

[Nibbui]

ruru in our last game started talking on d1 about how it was autolose if she left scum me alive and seriously advocated policy lynching me day one.
this game she's avoided me entirely, has made zero decent content posts, and is shit pushing town.

Mmmmmh, you've a point here.

Need to check again that game though. It was that setup of Heaven/Hell days I guess.

What about MEMEMAN though? Do you think he is town in the wrong direction or genuinely scummy?

[Nibbui]

I don't know what to think honestly.

I would say I don't like Pintu defending Ruru this hard when even if you say that you are reading her off tone, she has mostly only memed this game.

I can see why you could think that as town having played with scum her that time.

I wanted to wait a bit more to drop this on the table but I guess it's my fault for asking RC that question.

I've been pretty insterested in BJ, because although Ofrhz has been pretty ok, Ruru hasn't and I mulling that over.

Pintu, from what I've seen Ruru only has played scum on that newbie game with you. You guys lost. What do you think that Ruru would try to change in her scum play seeing what happened there?

Or do you perhaps think that she would just try to apply the same formula?

[Nibbui]

I'm not so sure that you can't be a possible partner, even if in that game you did bus, I believe you can be that flexible.

I don't think it's a good theory in this moment though, WIFOM from the get-go usually isn't helpful,

right now

It doesn't feel like you're Ruru's partner, it just felt a bit unnatural for you to come so strongly in her defense, it remembers a bit of you defending a townie in Jungle Replubic without consenting to any points from the opposite side (I think it was Skitter?). Anyway, I don't know much of your play but I'm feeling a different Pintu than what I saw in Open 720 and am surprised, although I haven't read the game completely.

I particularly have changed my meta a lot so maybe you did as well, but I was expecting a more open Pintu

[Nibbui]

Yeah, maybe it's that.

I guess I'm just taken aback you sounded for me more similar to Open 725 than Open 720 but it's been 4 months you haven't played at all. Seems reasonable and I hope that if we're town I can get to town read you and work together.

To keep going on with the chat, I might as well say that I to let people talk about themselves.

Pintu, do you think that you're with a different mindset in this game than you were in Open 720?

If it's something you changed consciously, why you did so?

[Nibbui]

To keep going on with the chat, I might as well say that I love to let people talk about themselves.

Fixing typo here

I need to readproof more...really...

[Nibbui]

proofread

that's just sad you know?

[Nibbui]

Yeah, maybe it's that.

I guess I'm just taken aback you sounded for me more similar to Open 725 than Open 720 but it's been 4 months you haven't played at all. Seems reasonable and I hope that if we're town I can get to town read you and work together.

To keep going on with the chat, I might as well say that I to let people talk about themselves.

Pintu, do you think that you're with a different mindset in this game than you were in Open 720?

If it's something you changed consciously, why you did so?

My filosophy about my meta is not do anything consciously, but improvise depending the circumstances, and to let how I'm feeling to command my playstyle, in order to soun as real as I can, either as town or scum. I can't recall how I played in 720, but it was in a different moment on my life: I was finishing college, had the most important test of my life in a month or so, things with my girlfriend were a little complicated (not with our relationship per se, but family stuff from her side)... So if I had to guess, I must've been much more confrontational in games that happened during that period. Maybe more "I know what I'm doing" in order to convince myself of that in real life now I recently graduated, my girlfriend is better... I don't know, I can't define how my life is affecting my playstyle right now, but it's definately different.

So tl;dr: I think I'm playing differently not because of alignment, but because of what is going on my life right now. You would feel me differently either as town or as scum.

This was good

I hope things keep getting better and better for you, feel free to ask me anything as well

How you feel about Spring and Volxen?

And please don't ask me to read 720 again. I only remember having fun 'cause I was the hider, but that game was a clusterfuck at some point

Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about

[Nibbui]

@Pintu it's a reasonable opinion on them I guess.

@Ruru, do you think you have been more memey and less engaged in this game than normal? Why do you think so? (be it yes or no to the first question)

[Nibbui]

yes, because I'm here to meme with ofrhz and enjoy myself

What do you think that scum you would be doing here differently?

[Nibbui]

yes, because I'm here to meme with ofrhz and enjoy myself

What do you think that scum you would be doing here differently?

I probably wouldn't post things like 102/115/260 or if I did I would overexplain them to make sure that everyone "got" them

I might also be trying harder to look like I'm efforting

-r

I see

from what I've researched, you've only rolled scum once in one of your first games. What do you think you learned about playing as scum with that game, and what do you think you need to improve as scum?

[Nibbui]

when I'm scum I actually just can't write posts, which presumably only improves with practice.

people also tend to gut/tone read me as scum

-r

if you can't write good elabored posts as scum, do you think you would try to improve it as the games goes on or do you think that you would find to be a good tactic to simplify your play overall as you've been doing here and not need to elaborate posts at all?

[Nibbui]

I can write elaborate wallposts as scum, I can fake trajectories, I can double-check my entire iso for internal consistencies, etc.

I just can't

post

like I think I was the lowest living poster in that game

I mean, maybe you just didn't express yourself in the best way just as I misintepreted it but in the original post you say

when I'm scum I actually just can't

write

posts, which presumably only improves with practice.

But yeah, thanks for explaining, that helped

although I'm taking this change of expression with a bit of salt...

[Nibbui]

First things first. There seems to be some rumour circulating that "Aster" means "Disaster". I wish to clarify that the rumours are entirely false. In fact, they are quite the

opposite

of the truth.

The prefix "dis-" is from Latin origin that is used to express a negative or opposite [1]. Examples are "disassemble" being the opposite of "assemble" and "distrust" being the opposite of "trust". As such, "disaster" or Dis-Aster, is the

opposite

of "Aster". Using the laws of logic, it follows that Aster is the

opposite

of Disaster.

The name "Aster" ought to be associated with things like blessing and salvation, or in mafia context, perfect victories.

Any further questions?

It was even funnier than the "dis

Aster

" pun all the while being serious.

That's some talent right here I guess.

[Nibbui]

You guys accused him of the Ellitell, posting somewhere else while not posting in a certain game.

However, in my vision the Ellitell works on cases where the player is

purely

not interested in posting on that game while posting on others, if he might have had other reasons that tell fells flat. Volxen had only logged in for some time back then, and although he posted in one game, Keyser already said he didn't post in another one he is in as well.

In the time span between 173 and 368, volxen was only playing in one other game in which he made multiple posts.

Ellitell has worked on volxen in the past; he’s more likely to post when he’s town.

/ofrhz

Again, he had just replaced so I don't think it would be abnormal for him to think "oh well, afterwards I catchup with that game" and just post in the game he is focused right now.

However there's two good points here:

The news that the Ellitell worked on him once is

very

appreciated (that in other words he indeed posts more as town than as scum). in what game did that happen?

Also, I suddenly noticed something when you said "multiple posts" that I had only realized in a unconscious level before...

I mean, he only came here to write

one

post and by re:checking I'm noticing a lot of difference in the ratio he posts here and elsewhere

Yeah, that may increase his scum equity I guess.

@RC, do you disagree with this?

[Nibbui]

You guys accused him of the Ellitell, posting somewhere else while not posting in a certain game.

However, in my vision the Ellitell works on cases where the player is

purely

not interested in posting on that game while posting on others, if he might have had other reasons that tell fells flat. Volxen had only logged in for some time back then, and although he posted in one game, Keyser already said he didn't post in another one he is in as well.

In the time span between 173 and 368, volxen was only playing in one other game in which he made multiple posts.

Ellitell has worked on volxen in the past; he’s more likely to post when he’s town.

/ofrhz

I mean, I'm not sure why you are putting so much stock in this. I only have one completed scum game on site, and it seems like you are scumreading me here because of a certain ongoing game. At times I have gaps in my posts as both alignments. And yes if I am playing multiple games, I may not post each day in each game.

You know, first time I wrote it off as coincidence but for the second time just when we're talking about you, you kinda shows up?

[Nibbui]

I might or might not be getting trigger happy

[Nibbui]

Fire what are your thoughts about Velxon and MEMEMAN?

[Nibbui]

Ceejay talk to me

Who are the scummy guys right now for you?

I already know of your Volxen read though, so I'm interested in what I don't know yet.

[Nibbui]

It's like Firebringer has entered the thread wearing a mask.

Do you have experience with Fire?

Have you misread him? If yes, why so?

[Nibbui]

i'm seriously concerned with the amount of lurk y'all are letting me get away with

I would be super /in to policy lynching you and anyone that doesn't do much

but

this is Red Flag and it's rough to miss scum because scum team becomes more and more monstruous as the days pass.

Town here more than in any other game shouldn't lurk, and they should put at least a bit of effort honestly. It's not the kind of game you can lurk even one day without it being

very bad

for town.

If you're scum though keep going I guess

[Nibbui]

Like I've given reasons, no one cares, everyone just wants to lynch people from least charismatic to most without actually trying to look for scum

Mmmmh, not really?

I don't find BJ

in this game

(I've seen Ofrhz being a lot more charismatic) for example any more charismatic than Volxen.

I'm simply finding Volxen a better option

right now

(that can change).

I get that it's frustating when we are sure of a scum read and people just don't want to lynch them, all the while we can be right. It's frustating as well when you perhaps hyphotetically town read correctly someone and people just want to lynch that slot. However, this is kinda how this game works?

We can't simply go with "let's do what RC tells us to", I particularly am not even sure in your alignment, how am I supposed to just sheep you when I don't agree as much as you do on something?

I mean, you can call me stupid and I probably am, but that's it as well?

Even if town are stupid most of the time, the medicine wouldn't really be 100% trusting you

I take your opinions with a high value though, and even before you said about BJ I was as well very observative of Ruru.

[Nibbui]

If you think it's worth being a presumed scumpartner to BJ to not vote them, be my guest.

it feels like you're kinda threatening me to vote BJ here

It's a valid point though.

But does that means if I voted BJ here I would be beyond being a hypothetical partner?

I don't think that in a scumteam of 4 people there will not be at least

some

bussing.

That if they haven't divided themselves in kind of two factions and are bussing each other while planning to night kill the weakest links of themselves.

[Nibbui]

If scum werr willing to bus blackjack would have had votes by now

haha

I don't know, maybe you just think it's stupid to not see BJ as obv!scum that should get immediatelly lynched but I feel you kinda don't want to engage seriously with me. I found the post funny though and maybe I'm stupid after all.

However.

I mean, let's say BJ is scum. You're supposing here that

all

the scum team would suddenly turn to vote her. That's not the kind of advantageous bussing for scum at all?

I'm kind of null on Keyser since Idk how he usually plays, but let's hipothetically consider that both Keyser and BJ are scum. Keyser just voted on her, it creates some distance between them however it doesn't damage the scum team that much.

It's not like by bussing I mean that

all

of the scum team would suddenly vote to lynch a partner when there may be townies looking scummy out there or they need to buss other comrades as well.

[Nibbui]

There's an awful pattern in my recent games where I catch scum, the entire town fucks off to vote the juiciest shiniest lynchbait (volxen/springtrap), the slot flips town then a bunch of awful townies turn on me for TMI reads or whatever stupid reason they have to

Gotta steal this pt sorry not sorry nsg

... Is anyone else gonna address this here? "PT" slip would imply 3 things that I've read. A neighborhood. A Masonry. And (unlikely) a scumthread.

You also said "fuck" afterward to imply you didnt mean to put that here. Just suprised nobody else mentioned it.

ok, you've clearly missed something but let's talk

The upward part of that post would clearly have been write to be posted here

Why do you think that he woulld write that one line that hipothetically should go to the scum PT in the same post? How can he confuse it as badly as that?

I'm not playing wallpost repartee with you
My reads are better than yours, and I think blackjack is scum. The end.

Sounds minimally reasonable I guess, and about your reads you're right.

It doesn't mean that BJ is confirmed scum though and that we should just follow your town read on Volxen

p-edit: I'll answer the new posts in a bit

[Nibbui]

Idk what you want

I just want to talk to you and tell you to not get worked up or biased if no one is willing to lynch BJ

right now

And you say that you can't sheep me because you're 'not townreading me': short of being mod confirmed town what exactly is it that you would townread from me? What's outside of your perception of my scum range? If the answer is nothing then why bring it up

I think I can correctly read you sometimes from the mindset that you show in the thread I would say!

I'm not that confident at all, and if you put effort as scum you can probably easily fake it, and some times you just don't do it as town. Still, I think it's the best I come up with as how to read you.

[Nibbui]

Stop

we're just mildly discussing things a bit, I don't think we are picking a fight at all

[Nibbui]

Also it's not like I would sheep you if I town read you.

It's just that not necessarily town reading you makes the feeling of "not wanting to sheep you over pushing my top scum read" a bit harder inside me.

[Nibbui]

just want to talk to you and tell you to not get worked up or biased if no one is willing to lynch BJ right now

What happens when scum kill her at night and we lose our free scum lynch?

We get more info and find the rest of the scum team?

I mean, I can turn it around to you as well: What if Volxen is scum and gets nightkilled if we lynch BJ today?

That's a pretty troublesome setup indeed.

[Nibbui]

VOTE: blackjacks

You know that if BJ ever flips scum, with this post I'm probably gonna try lynching you next day right?

Do you see my point on suspecting you?

Also, do you town read me?

[Nibbui]

I think RC is likely right about BlackJacks. I've never played with Ruru, and my only experience with Orfhz is in another ongoing game, and yet both of them are convinced I'm scum because I don't have tons of posts in this game already. They even have referenced some of my previous town games, without even taking into account things such as that I do sometimes have gaps in my posts as both alignments, or that I often do better after day 1 when I have more information to work with via flips.

I don't feel like BlackJacks wants to sort my alignment, but rather it feels like both heads of the hydra just want to push a mislynch through.

Hi Volxen talk with me

I feel that BJ is hard pushing you without reconsidering it that much, yes. That point I can somewhat agree.

However the post they linked here from your town game sounded very differently than your posts here.

You didn't see engaged in sorting anyone alignment aside from posting things everyone had already said and approved, nor do you right now seem to focus on anything but avoiding your lynch or saying that BJ is scum.

Do you really think it's weird to scum read you here? I don't think it would be that hard for you to actually sound townier if you had some motivation.

[Nibbui]

What I'm saying is that the conclusion "Volxen hasn't made tons of posts = Volxen is scum" is overly simplistic, and I have a hard time believing that is coming from a townie who really wants to solve the game. For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

Either he is scum, or he has some misguided preconceived notion of what town!Volxen looks like and thinks I'm scum because I'm not living up to that expectation. Considering he has never played with town!me in any of my completed town games, him posting as if he is some sort of expert on my town meta is fairly suspect.

Point taken.

Still,

Do you find your posts here less townier than the usual?

Also, do you think that you would be doing something different here as scum?

[Nibbui]

There's an awful pattern in my recent games where I catch scum, the entire town fucks off to vote the juiciest shiniest lynchbait (volxen/springtrap), the slot flips town then a bunch of awful townies turn on me for TMI reads or whatever stupid reason they have to

Gotta steal this pt sorry not sorry nsg

... Is anyone else gonna address this here? "PT" slip would imply 3 things that I've read. A neighborhood. A Masonry. And (unlikely) a scumthread.

You also said "fuck" afterward to imply you didnt mean to put that here. Just suprised nobody else mentioned it.

one thing i need to correct i'm 99% sure "pt" meant pagetop
hence the apology to nsg

Oh. Thank you for that correction. Surprised nobody else decided to do that for me.

They just brushed me aside

.

I clearly tried to engage with you and to see your thought process back there. Saying no one noticed you was kinda out of bad faith or shows that you didn't read my post what isn't a such good thing...

I didn't correct your mistake though yes, but it was because I wanted to see how you did reach that conclusion.

[Nibbui]

What I'm saying is that the conclusion "Volxen hasn't made tons of posts = Volxen is scum" is overly simplistic, and I have a hard time believing that is coming from a townie who really wants to solve the game. For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

Either he is scum, or he has some misguided preconceived notion of what town!Volxen looks like and thinks I'm scum because I'm not living up to that expectation. Considering he has never played with town!me in any of my completed town games, him posting as if he is some sort of expert on my town meta is fairly suspect.

Point taken.

Still,

Do you find your posts here less townier than the usual?

Also, do you think that you would be doing something different here as scum?

@Nibbui, I'm not sure what you want me to say here. I do frequently get misread as scum as town, especially on day 1. This has happened to me in multiple of my town games, including Newbie 1888, Newbie 1889, and Newbie 1893. In the latter two games, I was a town power role and forced to roleclaim on day 1 to avoid getting mislynched. And again, BlackJacks has clearly looked at at least some of those games, but it's like he's selectively pointing out things that he thinks will help him to present a case for scum!Volxen rather than taking a more holistic approach to my meta.

Ok that was good info but not really the info I asked (it was still good info).

Let's hyphotetically assume you're town. What would you do different as scum here? What do you think are some notable differences between your scum and town meta?

[Nibbui]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

[Nibbui]

I mean, it's not that much of a hard question usually to answer what you would probably be doing as scum but I get your point.

How you felt though when you rolled scum for the first time? What was your experience there and did you learn something about playing as scum?

[Nibbui]

That leaves (4) as the most important reason. Unfortunately I lack the sense of "feel" that you do, and your "feel" is not really transmitted well through your posts. I understand that you may end up obsessed over Blackjacks using only a feel read,

but unless you give some quantifiable reasons, you'll be the only one.

(?)

I mean, he already said his reasons, it just happens that we're not as convinced as him of the BJ's case. At least for me.

I still understand where he is coming from though, Ruru has been weird here. What is your current taken on Blackjack though? You said before that they were somewhat lurkers and I get that but they have been posting a bit more now.

Also, what is your taken on Volxen and RC's town read on him?

[Nibbui]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.

What is your experience with RC?

How confident you're that you can read RC intentions as scum?

[Nibbui]

Do you believe that Blackjacks is town @Nibbui?

not really, far from that and I already said that

I was even the one to question Ruru on their meta and all, I even questioned her meta to Pintu way before Radiant If I remember right.

I'm just not really that convinced that this can't be town!Blackjacks. I'm not strong on that slot.

[Nibbui]

Clemency I don't want to be rude but can you do something?

I'm starting to think that lynching you isn't a bad idea at all

[Nibbui]

1) that question goes for you too
2) you've seen me hard read people for far less and been correct about it

1)yeah, kinda, I still saw/played around 6 or 7 games with you though so I've at least a shallow knowledge about you. Not that reliable indeed.
2)I've seen you hard read people for one post yes, but the difference is that I actually though that the post you were reading them for was AI, you can be right and be town here maybe but as of now I don't know how you did hard tr Volxen. About BJ I get your point.

I'm mulling over about Volxen's recent posts rn

[Nibbui]

RC, assuming you're town, in what scale are you going to be mad at me and find unreasonable that I'm entertaining you being scum here a lot?

and no this isn't average RC-paranoia I think, there's games from you that when I was reading I did find your posts very towny,

I very probably am not good at reading you but this simply doesn't sound like town!RC right now

Guess I'll become a counterwagon and a decent lynch of I dont do something.

VOTE: Blackjacks

if you're ever town this game you should really reconsider your behavior in post-game

and this is coming from someone that had a horrible behavior as well, albeit different.

You need to be lynched before LyLo if you're going to act this way.

[Nibbui]

This d1 has gone wrong beyond repair. I'm like:

Do I vote Ruru for being completely meta-weird and side with RC even though I'm scum leaning him

Do I go for Volxen for reasons already discussed

RC and Pintu because I feel their reads have been kinda forced?

or do I go for Spring and Clemency for their very anti-town behavior?

All of them sounds good and bad tbh

I've lost my drive on Volxen considerably though until I carefully check his scum game

[Nibbui]

you at least have the dubious advantage of having incorrectly scumread me as the dark wanderer as well so I take it less personally.

yeah my bad on that game, I'm indeed not good on reading you

However I'm even trying to use that game to compare you here

You seemed different in a certain way that game that I don't want to disclose unless I'm going for your lynch, but now that I think about it, you did town read people kinda fast as well I guess...

considering that, I can back off from you for now and see what happens for a bit longer I guess

I think I'm going either for Spring, Black or Volxen for today

Unless something changes when I read Volxen's game, I'm more interested in either Black or Spring

What do you think of Spring? I know he sounds kinda lynchbaity but I've never seen someone post in that ratio and don't do anything relevant

Actually I kinda experienced it but it was against scum!Sashadin in a newbie game

[Nibbui]

Also I got interested on something, why did you town read me here while did scum read me there?

Or is it because I flipped town there and you changed how you approach my slot?

[Nibbui]

Black, what do you think of Ceejay?

I think his vote on you is one of the worst ones as well.

[Nibbui]

I liked this BJ vs Radiant

It definitely doesn't feel like s/s and it kinda seems t/t. Maybe s/t or t/s, but just maybe.

I feel good about considering it t/t as of now.

[Nibbui]

I was going to sleep but I couldn't stop mulling over something

yeah I think this is scum actually

VOTE: Ceejay

Ceejay, why do you think I'm sus of you?

Also, why did you roll scum against me again? :/

[Nibbui]

Look on Ceejay's ISO guys.

- He actually tries to frame Volxen the same way he did in a scum game of his

- He doesn't take a firm position on anyone

- He doesn't follow up on his questions

- Later when Volxen says that Ceejay did try to frame him as scum, he gives up and votes BlackJack when their wagon starts to build up

- He posts in the thread but ignores or don't read my posts about him

I'm afraid of leaving Spring alone though...

But yeah I think Ceejay is scum here, again.

[Nibbui]

Ceejay you either show me that towny-Ceejay that I love and like or I'm gonna need to tunnel you here :/

Just re:read Spring's ISO and although he has potential to flip scum, his slot is kinda like a coin flip right now. We can lynch that later.

I get real scum vibes from your ISO however.

I'm scum reading you to the point of almost wanting to strongarm your lynch and take some responsability if you don't flip red.

[Nibbui]

Like, I mislynched you once and did scum read you right twice. I don't have much confidence in sorting you and it's not a reliable ratio.

However, this game you've been playing very different than when I mislynched you or than any of the games I played with town-you.

Do you agree?

[Nibbui]

This better show up in my "View Your Posts" list....

UNVOTE:

So... what the hell did I miss?

mmmmh, we all being scummy I guess?

Welcome to the party AG!

I noticed I was being scummy, so now I'm being quiet

and accepting that I'll have to be lynched before LyLo or MyLo but I'd rather not hurt town by being hung day 1. Hence, being quiet.

I'll mainly use my vote as an incentive for town to use at their leisure until I see something of true value being pushed. Blackjacks does seem more town though.

UNVOTE:

No...like...
If you don't want to be scummy, I would say you simply need to post more your thoughts, your list and engage more with us

Really sorry if I was too rude about the "horrible behavior" thing but I just got frustated that so many slots are being harder than usual to be read here.

Sorry, for real.

That said, if you just keep being quiet and all, you'll only sound scummier, however, I'm sure that if you put some effort in doing what I said, you can probably improve a lot your play (regardless of alignment) and who knows...

maybe get to a "strong town read" status by us!!

Really, just let your thoughts about the game flow in your posts and therefore in the thread. That's all we're asking you and Clemency for.

[Nibbui]

I mean, Spring, even if your posts are scummy, regardless of alignment the medicine isn't to keep quiet/stop posting.

Even if you end up lynched as scum here or mislynched as town, I would say that at least you'll be improving your play instead of not progressing by becoming a lurker.

[Nibbui]

mmmmh, we all being scummy I guess?

Elaborate?

It's been hard to get a town read here.

The active players are either hard reads by standard or are acting a bit different for what can be circunstancial.

Also there has been some good/moderate amount of lurking from some slots.

[Nibbui]

every time i try to write something meaningful my mind goes blank and i get a craving for chocolate

I feel you there.

chocolate, junk food, soda and coke are pretty addicting. Need to moderate yourself!

i should honestly be trying to be a lot more helpful and nibbui is so pure i feel like i'm letting him down

:d

@Nibbui - "by standard"?

yeah

for example I don't think I can read Aster, she's just too logical and I usually get my reads from a tone/motivations/thought process perspective. I mean, you can always look at her posts and see her thought process, but it's not so simple to try to read between the lines there.

[Nibbui]

There's 5 days left. Get your real votes down. We're not quicklynching someone randomly when there's only 12 hours left.

I'm going for a Ceejay lynch that I already explained why, at least if he doesn't change my mind.

Please vote and explain why.

[Nibbui]

Aster 297, Gamma Emerald 311

@Aster

- So between then (Page 12) and now (Page 34), is your case on my predecessor still valid? I haven't looked at the mod's ISO for the VCs between then and now to see if you moved your vote between then and now or if you're vote sitting from page 12.

@Anyone

- Someone please explain the wagons and the reasons behind them.

I would say that there is 5 viable wagons that can happen today?

Spring for being kinda awkward and not contributing much to the game.

Volxen for early not being much engaged until his wagon kicked off.

BlackJack because one of the heads is playing differently but the explanation is because they created this hydra exactly because they wanted a less tryhard approach, also they did hard scum read Volxen since very early.

Ceejay for the reasons I explained in the last 2 pages or so.

MEMEMAN/You for more or less the reasons that Aster already said.

[Nibbui]

Pedit: @Nibbui - Where did you make your case? Gimme a ballpark page. Thanks.

I suppose that in 815 816 and 817

[Nibbui]

Spring - is this a newbie or someone's alt?

Volxen - is his engagement related to fighting off his wagon?

BlackJack - meta driven wagons are meh. is BlackJack the reason why Volxen got engaged? I see that Keyser's the starting vote, but I'm still on Page 10

Ceejay - i haven't checked to see if what you say about Ceejay's lack of stance is true yet

- Later when Volxen says that Ceejay did try to frame him as scum,

he

gives up and votes BlackJack when their wagon starts to build up

@Nibbui

- Who are you referring to here? (bolded part)

Spring - Dunno, very probably a new player

Volxen - Kinda. You definitely can say that from a certain pov.

BlackJack - Kinda yes and kinda not, I was the one to engage Volxen more, but BJ was the one to drive the wagon for the most part

About your question to me, I was referring to Ceejay in that pronoun.

[Nibbui]

Volxen - Kinda. You definitely can say that from a certain pov.

Your POV?

Dunno honestly.

If I'm town leaning him I'll interpret as him just getting more serious,

If I'm scum leaning him I'll interpret as him just coming to fight off his lynch what is super scummy

depends on my very unstable feelings towards the slot

- He actually tries to frame Volxen the same way he did in a scum game of his

- Later when Volxen says that Ceejay did try to frame him as scum, he gives up and votes BlackJack when their wagon starts to build up

and now they're both on BlackJack's wagon...

huh

I wonder if that could be early scum distancing attempt

I would appreciate if you did read and afterwards do give me an opinion on this, it may help sort you out later.

[Nibbui]

I just tried to read Ceejay game framing Volxen but I couldn't find it? There's one where he asks for a completed town game of Volxen, but that's kinda it?

as of now I stand by my claim that Ceejay might be scum, and if you think that it's only a play style crash, I'll link here the game where I mislynched him because of paranoia. Even when I did mislynch him, he was 100x townier there compared to here.

Here he has been only floating and I feel that he might be waiting to get nightkilled later.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10322141 (<- towny-Ceejay mislynched because I was paranoid, WAY more townier)

Now see this scum game of him, where he like here just surfs the flow of the thread and doesn't sound gamesolvey by himself:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10307858

This is scum!Ceejay imo, I'm pretty confident and would be really surprised if he doesn't flip red here.

[Nibbui]

Idk about Keyser, I see some town points on his posts, like how he didn't jump on calling Spring scum when I engaged with him but instead did try to make Spring post more.

Still it's not a strong feeling at all, I can see a world where he is scum.

If you see any of Ceejay town games though, I'm sure that you be convinced that Ceejay is the scummiest guy here.

It's

really

different.

[Nibbui]

Why are you voting Obvious Town?

-r

if you can agree with me that volxen is town, then hey you're free.

like, this sounds like a bit of lazy reasoning as well.

If BlackJack retracts the vote on Volxen, you don't think that the slot is the lynch today/scum anymore?

Also, I just checked some games from Volxen and he hasn't been that towny compared to his meta here, it feels like you changed to a somewhat confident town read on the slot just because we're coming to a consensus that Volxen is town. :

[Nibbui]

if you're really confident i'm willing to vote with you

I mean, you don't need to

only

take my confidence for it at all.

Skim a bit the games I linked. It's like day and night how solvey he seems.

If I'm wrong here is because Ceejay has been 120% disengaged here and idk what he would expect me to do if not hard scum read him.

[Nibbui]

To be honest, on second thought, I'm not that confident on Ceejay.

It's not for any reason in particular, idk, It's just that the more I think about a scum-read, the less I have confidence on it.

"What if there's a special reason for it? Or I'm reading something wrong?"

Meh I'm no good in mafia. I can compromise somewhere else if no one is getting behind Ceejay.

[Nibbui]

why Aster?

is it only because of her posts here or it's some kind of meta read as well?

[Nibbui]

I wanna post because maybe I'll only be here 48 hours from now but I haven't much to say...let's see what I can write here...

Nibbui's wonders episode#1

Spoiler:

Recently I have been wondering if I should begin to download some youtube music videos.

Since it seems (I'm not so sure), that Article 13 has been aproved in EU, maybe some musics can kinda vanish since I like some not-so-popular bands.

That thing kinda seems like a mess by the way, it's not very specific so it can lead to some serious abuse, and I wonder if it's alright for the Europe Union to decide for the european countries such a thing. If the europeans and each country democraticaly-elected government implemented it, well that's one thing. But the European Union decide it?

Really?

and they still wonder why some countries are getting mad and threatening to leave. If it's right or wrong aside, that's something up to the countries to decide in my opinion, not up to a economic union/block to enforce it.

I dunno if Spring has potential to flip scum, it seems kinda like a coin flip. I haven't changed my opinion on Ceejay that much as well.

[Nibbui]

I don't think that Spring flips scum here, but what is the alternative here?

I proposed Ceejay but no one got interested so I suppose that there is Keyser?

I think Keyser has that average potential to be scum here but by lynching him we're letting Spring alive, and the slot is just like Ceejay if not engaged: kind of a unreadable slot.

I don't like how we're ending D1 but whatever.

I think I'll be going for a Spring lynch since he kinda needs to go before LyLo, but I can compromisse in Keyser if someone creates a good case against him.

[Nibbui]

I think I can do either Fire, Keyser, Ceejay or Spring today

Mainly Ceejay to be honest, and if no one wants Ceejay that has been kinda sly, I can go to Spring.

Keyser or Fire would be a compromisse if no one posts a good case for they, because even if we try to lynch them, if they flip town, we'll not only have mislynched but will have kept alive unreadable or lurking slots.

VOTE: Spring

If someone changes vote to Ceejay I can go over there.

Honestly though? I don't think Spring is flipping scum here at all.

[Nibbui]

I didn't say you were Fire.

I said the opposite, that if we don't lynch Ceejay or Spring, if either you or Keyser doesn't flip scum, we'll be stuck with lurkish slots or unreadable ones like Spring, and that will keep being a bother because it'll be easy to say that Srping looks "scummy".

If there's not very good reasons to town read Spring or scum read one of you, maybe it's better to lynch there.

Ceejay sounds like real scum though.

[Nibbui]

Still, Spring sounds more like town than scum to me.

I might be just being dumb honestly, I'm too easy on new players. (like I was with scum!Sashaddin in a newbie game)

[Nibbui]

Scum team played well.

Just a question though Clemency, do you always active lurk? I was too lazy to check your other games to see if this is normal behavior for you.

[Nibbui]

Radiant I had a hunch, but Keyser and Aster were very like "either way" for me. Other townies would either need to town it up or I would need to study a lot their games to go there.

Clemency's playstyle is a weakness of mine, I always say "I'm lynching you if you don't do anything" but always get distracted by the active players later on...

It was a harsh game to town though, lots of lurking and disengagement from townies, but scum team definitely played well here in my opinion.

[Nibbui]

i hope i get to play on your side soon, nibbui
you were by far my favourite player and i feel like i would have been a lot more active if i was actually town

Thanks, I appreciate the comment!

I hope we get to play together again soon as well.

and thanks NSG for modding the game.

[Nibbui]

I mean, for me it's very situational.

If all the players in the scum team have a good or average scum game, it's kind of mafia sided if they minimally organize themselves.

But if there's weak links in the scum team, it's town sided, and that's why we ended up winning the past Open Flag.

It depends on how town play as well. It's swingy but I wouldn't call necessarily that much biased for mafia.

I particularly like the setup because it's fun to wonder what is the scum team plan since there are so many scum.

[Nibbui]

By the way, I'd like to congratulate Nibbui for being the best townie by a long shot.

Thanks Aster, you played good as well.

The way that you always wrote heavy logical posts made it hard to get a grasp on you and that's very useful as scum.

About the setup, what NSG said is basically what I particularly believe too.