no deadlines mafia [game over]

[singletonking]

V/LA until 15 Dec

Not that it matters lol

[singletonking]

Hey my V/LA just ended

I will be catching up tomorrow, too tired to catch up tonight

[singletonking]

Ok, actually catching up now.

I dislike this logic. Just because you infiltrated a community in the past does not mean someone is automatically infiltrating that community.

Really? I took it as quite towny that he opens already intent on looking for decent avenues to push. You serm to be taking this too seriously.

Why would you call voting in a neighbourhood a 'decent avenue to push'?

[singletonking]

Uh why is someone already at L-2?

[singletonking]

Also re:when to lynch

This game ran recently:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76400

It's not the same as it had anti-spam post restrictions, but it also had indefinite deadlines, so may be useful on pacing strategies. I wasn't in the game however so I don't know too much about this.

[singletonking]

Ok, actually catching up now.

I dislike this logic. Just because you infiltrated a community in the past does not mean someone is automatically infiltrating that community.

Really? I took it as quite towny that he opens already intent on looking for decent avenues to push. You serm to be taking this too seriously.

Why would you call voting in a neighbourhood a 'decent avenue to push'?

I'm not?

So what were you talking about?

[singletonking]

Spoiler: Can I infiltrate your neighborhood?

@Gamma - what if I joined this game so that I'd have the freedom to only look at the thread once a month?

On a serious note, I may as well claim because y'all will find out soon enough and it's anti-town to hide it. Nobody asked to see my magic trick, so I have to reveal the boring way:
I'm a triple voter. My vote counts as three votes. The VC will indicate so by listing my vote three times.

Ok, Edo being a triplevoter makes him likely town.

And I see that Edo is not already on the L-2 wagon, which means that wagon is even more likely to be trash

[singletonking]

votecount 1.08

8 players voting for Leodanny (Purrcocet, profii, hebichan, Gamma Emerald, Wisdom, CheekyTeeky, Kokichi Oma)
2 players voting for Varsoon (sheepsaysmeep, Jaylow7)
2 players voting for Jaylow7 (Party Boat, Nancy Drew 39)
2 players voting for Gamma Emerald (TheBrie, Ausuka)
2 players voting for sheepsaysmeep (Vaxkiller, Varsoon)
1 player voting for Vaxkiller (Wagonomics)
1 player voting for Kokichi Oma (Leodanny)

8 players not voting (0verki11, singletonking, Theta Alpine, light_ganski, Xtoxm, Edosurist, Jaylow7, vonflare)

with 24 votes, it takes 13 to lynch.

mod notes: this votecount is identical to the last one, but yuo know what? sometimes you just gotta get that pagetop

Actually is the votecount even accurate? I count only 7 people voting Leodanny here, and Jaylow7 appears on Varsoon as well as Not Voting

@Mod

Or has anyone else claimed vote-related roles that I've not seen yet?

[singletonking]

So what were you talking about?

How it looked like he started to scumhunt?

How was anything he had done by that point (which is only 30) scumhunting?

[singletonking]

Actually, I'm liking Cheeky from her townread on Porkens/scumread on Brie, it looks like she's trying to sort people early game.

[singletonking]

Woah woah guys these votes
We have no deadlines
What's the rush?

Also, I'm in a PT with Party Boat, Xtoxm, and Nancy Drew 39.
This PT began before gamestart.
We've currently got about 15 posts in there.
It's fairly chill.
That's all I wanted to say.

I'm liable to believe that at least one of the four people in my PT is scum, which is why I decided to out the PT in the first place.
That said, it's a fallacy to assume that the same ratio of town to scum in the main thread applies to any PT, so I'd prefer we didn't hunt out of that PT group.

VOTE: Profii

'cus it's a fallacy to assume the same ratios exist within a neighborhood.
If we're all town in there and I make the mistake of assuming one of us is scum, then I have a 100% chance of mislynching if I concentrate there, whereas the game thread ALWAYS has the assured setup ratio.
And I know if I mislynch in there I'll sunk cost it and keep lynching in there
and if they all flip town then I know I'm up shit creek for being the last one left.
Does that make sense?

Wait Varsoon, why would you out your PT saying you think there's likely scum in your hood, then say that your PT could be all town?

[singletonking]

FWIW I think it's best to ignore that neighbourhood in terms of scumhunting, i.e. not have it affect your reads in terms of town/scum ratio, except of course that all of them being scum is implausible.

[singletonking]

Also I'm seeing why Leo is getting wagoned here, his posts read really awkward, but given that he somehow hit L-2/3 so early in such a large game gives me really bad feelings from the wagon.

Although I've yet to read the later posts so

[singletonking]

Ofc don’t ignore the fact you can use the hood to sort people

I mean yeah you can use the hood to talk and if someone does something there it should be shared with the thread. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't assume there are X scum in it and scumhunt using that.

[singletonking]

Varsoon, the issue I have with you is this: you first outed your neighbourhood because you believed it contained at least one scum, but then you were the first to propose that your neighbourhood could be all town. I find these mindsets conflicting.

Can you reconcile this?

[singletonking]

Btw does anyone know how to read Wagonomic's charts? Is he townreading the big/green numbers and scumreading the low/red numbers or what?

[singletonking]

Wait, are you saying that you outed the neighbourhood in case scum were in it, not that you actually think scum is in it?

[singletonking]

Ok yeah I'm definitely seeing why Leo has a wagon on him

[singletonking]

I iso'd Leo and his awkwardness does indeed ping me more like scum awkwardness than town awkwardness.

But his claim makes me want to give that slot a pass for the rest of Day 1 at least.

[singletonking]

Wait, are you saying that you outed the neighbourhood in case scum were in it, not that you actually think scum is in it?

Contingencies, yeah.
I literally decided to out it before anyone posted there.

Ah, thank you.

[singletonking]

I'm a bit skeptical of voting Vaxkiller here because I know he can be lynchbaity as town

[singletonking]

VOTE: Kokichi

Varsoon feels like noncaring town. Bad wagon.

Awful posts. Didnt explain the vote on me or why varsoon felt like uncaring town. This could be scum trying to WK varsoon. Hmm

This pinged me quite hard upon reading. Didn't like how he scumreads someone for "WKing Varsoon" when Varsoon was his top scumread.

[singletonking]

Ok yeah the way the speed of the Leo wagon is definitely giving me bad vibes

[singletonking]

VOTE: Leodanny

[singletonking]

I did skim Theta and his timings seemed consistent, which is why I voted Leo. I do agree that he's unlikely to cc as scum, but in hindsight this is a 24 player game, and while I've not encountered duplicate roles before, my largest other completed game is a 17p, so can anyone with more experiences with large themes tell me how often duplicate roles appear?

Ah well, hindsight is 50/50 I guess

[singletonking]

Actually, Theta may cc as scum if he's a scum JK

Hmm

[singletonking]

Also I think this is blatant scum:
VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[singletonking]

His posts jumped out to me as blatantly ingenuine, which are the same vibes as the ones I got in previous games I had with scum!Kokichi

[singletonking]

Ok light ganski is town, I liked their catchup

[singletonking]

can someone explains why a duplicate role means something in a 24p game

This pinged me of TMI especially if Theta is town

[singletonking]

Sorry, wanted to reply yesterday but got too tired

My read on Kokichi is not really a meta read, it's mostly based on me reading his posts as disingenuous. The meta thing backs up my read on Kokichi because I have used this to correctly scumread Kokichi

[singletonking]

Welcome, Trekkie!

[singletonking]

Yeah light is town

FWIW I don't think it's a problem to read 3/4 as scum in the neighbourhood, I see it as getting individual reads rather than guessing the scumteam

[singletonking]

@Kokichi
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=77611
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76573

I don't remember if I actually said I read your posts in that manner but I did feel those same vibes in those games

[singletonking]

But anyway,
UNVOTE: Kokichi
VOTE: Jaylow7

I want to support a wagon here first, I generally agreed that their first post was scummy, and they've done literally nothing ever since, even though they've been mod confirmed to exist.

[singletonking]

@Wagonomics why am I still part of LurkerCoin?

[singletonking]

I really like vonflare's clarification on his miller, and I think he's town from that. I actually initially read his death miller claim as a joke, but when he further specified that his miller part is real along with how exactly he investigates, I think there's no way that's scum.

Same for Wagonomics actually. I buy his "3-month vig" claim as a negative utility.


I am also starting to like Purro over his last few posts.

[singletonking]

Also are we going to set ourselves a deadline on when to lynch? I think it'll be important so that we keep the game in order.

[singletonking]

Vote the potato. Let's make french fries

When is potato being lynched

I hate when we vote scum and people unvote for no reason

need potato lynched. i'll post more tomorrow

Can we stop just voting people for not posting. Its lazy. Vote scummy people instead.

"Can we lynch Potato? Pleeeeeeeeeease?"

Leodanny has died, and was a town jailkeeper.

Cant believe potato was town

"Aw man that sucks. next?"

Spoiler:

.

Agreed, this is a big part of why I scumread Kokichi

[singletonking]

I got proded.
The votes on me are awful.
Cool.

give reeeads please

Those arrrre reads

So you're scumreading everyone voting you? Including light_ganski?

[singletonking]

I think I would rather lynch Kokichi than Gamma, but because we have time I want to pursue Jaylow first.

[singletonking]

What why are people shedding light on Kokichi's claim????
If people think Kokichi is fakeclaiming we lynch him tomorrow? No point lynching him today.

[singletonking]

Wait actually I may be misreading Kokichi's posts here let me check

[singletonking]

Ok I really dislike how roundabout Kokichi is with claiming but if what I'm thinking is right there's no point in lynching him at all so here's what I want:

Kokichi, claim properly.

[singletonking]

VOTE: Sheepsaysmeep

Okay so a few things
Thing 1.

It's not a neighborhood. It's a masonry.

Thing 2.
Lynch that sheep loser.

Ok I just realized I had misread the bolded because I thought it was long established that it was a neighbourhood
Then I remembered that Varsoon was the one who outed the neighbourhood in the first place.

Okay, Varsoon, which is it?

[singletonking]

Anyways I'm starting to dislike Varsoon and Xtoxm over the past few pages.
On the other hand, I'm liking Sheep and Trekkie for town.

[singletonking]

Ok I ISOed Gamma and they pinged me a lot

[singletonking]

Ok I don't think keeping my vote on Jaylow will be doing anything anymore
UNVOTE: Jaylow

[singletonking]

1185 makes me feel better about Xtoxm. Idk how to explain it but it looks like he's trying to work with people, and I just like the "we have highly opposing game views" part.

[singletonking]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I think I'd lynch this over Varsoon. His posts today have been terrible: Most of them are about Theta, and even those that aren't are reactive.
Meanwhile Varsoon's play here is easy in the sense that it was easy to make.

So both Gamma and Varsoon are being terrible here and while I see both as scummy, I see Gamma as slightly more scummy. I also slightly townread Varsoon's entrance on reread.

[singletonking]

I did? Maybe it wasn't clear enough: his entire Theta tunnel was bad, and then he made other posts today like 906 and 1007 "hey how dare you scumread me", then there was 1039 telling people how to read him.

[singletonking]

Idk when you ask me to reevaluate it's harder to find what I disliked with Gamma and I see things that neutralize my Gamma scumread

[singletonking]

...but how does having a bad tunnel and making reactive posts make Gamma scum here?

...it doesn't really. I remembered Gamma's posts giving me scummy vibes and when I tried to find which ones those were the ones that gave me scumvibes.

[singletonking]

Also I'm getting mild townvibes from Varsoon's push on me here unless Gamma turns out to be scum.

[singletonking]

Ok I really dislike how roundabout Kokichi is with claiming but if what I'm thinking is right there's no point in lynching him at all so here's what I want:

Kokichi, claim properly.

I'm an IC. I can be revealed confirmed tomorrow

Role name please

Why can't you be revealed today?

[singletonking]

VOTE: Varsoon

[singletonking]

Varsoon was terrible over the last few pages. I feel like his huge emotional tunnel over sheep and against Party Boat was scummy, and claimed a guilty on sheep in desperation to appear consistent with his sheep tunnel, only to retract it when people pointed out the inconsistencies.

Xtoxm trolling along with Varsoon is seriously annoying but I feel he's being annoying for the sake of it and it's not AI.

[singletonking]

Xtoxm trolling along with Varsoon is seriously annoying but I feel he's being annoying for the sake of it and it's not AI.

why do you feel this isn't investment-informative?

Because the way Xtoxm did it makes me feel it's his personality/playstyle and he'd do it as either alignment.

[singletonking]

I also dislike Wisdom's lack of mention of Varsoon here, especially if Varsoon is scum.

[singletonking]

Wisdom are you saying that Varsoon is null for you?

And yeah sheep is pretty obvtown

[singletonking]

isoing low posters and got to you ausuka, and i dont feel one way or the other... so...

VOTE: ausuka.

This isn't a reason to lynch someone.

Like I cannot rationalize this behaviour. As far as I can tell I'm not particularly suspected by most people, so how do you expect to actually get a wagon on me and lynch me when you're not even saying that you scumread me? What's the point of what you're doing other than showcasing how you're not jumping on wagons or whatever?

Wow this is a bad reaction to the vote

[singletonking]

UNVOTE: Flavor Leaf

Eh I'll give Flavor time to catch up.

[singletonking]

I am finding it quite defensive given that Vax is the only one voting her.

[singletonking]

Btw Flavor I'm BNL, look at my sig

[singletonking]

Ugh what happened

Did flame wars happen in the neighbourhood or something that caused mass replacement from the hood?

[singletonking]

I seriously don't understand the situation here, of how two people claiming different things from the hood cause a replace from both sides

[singletonking]

@Singleton/BNL - you seem to be fence sitting a lot. You’re pretty passive, I get it, but I am getting paranoia from you. I felt like you were waiting around to see where the consensus on me was going before committing rather than trying to get a read on me, so I am lean scum reading you, however I know it’s in your personality anyways, which is why I’m not fully committing, but you did become my strongest opinionated read.

I'll just say this now, though:
I wasn't sure of what to make of entrance. Varsoon was a strong scumread of mine before you replaced in, and while I somewhat liked your catchup, I knew that what you posted wasn't outside your scum range, so I didn't know what to think of your slot.

However, I am now going to have to reanalyse your slot based on neighbourhood stuffs.

[singletonking]

I should probably have said this:

Nancy was a strong townread Day 1 and I am a lot more inclined to believe her report of the neighbourhood than Flavor leaf. Xtoxm I don't trust at all. That having said, I need to see if they are actually at a 2v2 or are just misunderstanding each other

[singletonking]

Sorry prodge, I'm kinda detached from this game

[singletonking]

Sorry for constant prodging, I can't really get into this game

I do think Vax is town though

[singletonking]

I’m a roleblocker. THAT is why I’d been pushing Theta: I GREATLY doubt there’s 2 Jailkeepers and a roleblocker all town in this game.

Eh
I actually buy this as a valid reason to push Theta, in that I don't think there are 2 town Jailkeepers and a roleblocker
But the problem is that I still believe Theta's CC was quite town while I am scumreading Gamma
On the other hand I don't think Gamma pseudo-CCs like this as scum

I am leaning Gamma scum from this, but I want to first look at the self-resolving thing people have said because I forgot the details of it and I think it may be important. I'm too tired to do it now, though.

[singletonking]

Party Boat is definitely town.
Nancy is still town.

I really dislike Xtoxm shading those two slots.

[singletonking]

Honestly though I'm still not caught up and probably won't catch up
Gamma vs Theta now mastina will probably resolve in retrospect

[singletonking]

Day really needs to end ASAP.
NGL when I first joined the game I thought it'll be a low commitment game b/c no deadlines
But I realise I still have to read every post of the game
And this game is going to be longer than most other games

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[singletonking]

My ic activates at night and reveals day 3. Dont block me n2 just in case

I forgot something
I really disliked this post suddenly mentioned by Kokichi, it feels like a setup for WIFOM

I still continue to dislike Kokichi's posting, and while I get that Kokichi will be self resolving come D3, this is really something too scummy to ignore

[singletonking]

Hi I got prodded

[singletonking]

Before (if) we lynch Saudade can we at least have him claim?

[singletonking]

I don't prefer lynching Saudade right now, actually. While that slot has done some scummy stuff like Jaylow's Varsoon vote and Saudade acting weird in general, I feel that the slot has a high chance of being lynchbait right now due to the general absence, plus there's a lack of resistance to the wagon. Plus he's getting replaced soon so I see no reason to lynch him for now.

I'd rather lynch Ausuka. Her recent posts and slight uptick in activity seems like scum trying but struggling to produce content in reaction to pressure, given how most of it is talking about scumreading Vax and Wisdom.

VOTE: Ausuka

[singletonking]

OMG can we guys not
I get that the Day has been going on for too long already and apathy is taking over here but wagoning an empty slot at the verge of getting replaced is bad play

[singletonking]

???

[singletonking]

Guys can we seriously not lynch someone in the process of getting replaced

[singletonking]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck we have dueling town wagons.

I know that if I leave, we won't get a wagon on scum.
I know that Saudade has a much better chance of being scum than Ausuka.
But goddammit, this is a situation where scum know that both wagons are on town and it's ridiculously obvious. Sec, lemme compile the posts showing what I mean.

Also this post pinged me, although I find it hard to put my finger on it. I guess it feels kinda WK-ish?

[singletonking]

Honestly though Xtoxm is triggering me a lot as well so idk

[singletonking]

Eh I think triggering people is his playstyle

[singletonking]

Mastina, there was a question Brie asked you that I also wanted to ask but you didn't answer: Why is Trekkie scum? He said a lot of townie things upon replacing in, and while his activity has died down somewhat, I don't really see anything pointing to him being scum.

[singletonking]

Does mastina want people to invest in her coin?

In post 1476, the worst wrote:
In post 1472, Nibbui wrote:
I wonder if I'm getting under Mastina's charm though
She is strangely charming
(

Btw, that's actually a weak towntell of mine. scumastina is an ass, so is anything but charming. The charm comes from me when I'm town, since I just have a way with people, I guess

.) ~ scum!Mastina from BoS

VOTE: mastina

Ok I can understand why people are scumreading Trekkie here

[singletonking]

That having said I somewhat dislike mastina and wouldn't mind lynching her

But Ausuka's posts continue to be bad and is still my preferred lynch

[singletonking]

Why are we flashlynching Party Boat over the guilty?

Only issue I have is that PB was my #1 townread and Ausuka was my top 3 scum

[singletonking]

Sigh
I really had bad feelings about the PB guilty

Also there seem to be a lot of Day 3 vigs
Any chance there’s another to shoot Ausuka?

[singletonking]

Also I dislike how Trekkie has popped in toDay twice already but has not said anything about the guilty

[singletonking]

No need to rush, Ausuka is getting lynched, I don’t want a quicklynch in case we still have a Dayvig alive

[singletonking]

Wow you guys love faking guilities

I do scumread Xtoxm though
VOTE: Xtoxm

[singletonking]

UNVOTE: Xtoxm

I didn't realise this was L-2

[singletonking]

Wisdom what's your read on Nancy?

[singletonking]

Because I'm interested in Wisdom's response

[singletonking]

He's obviously forgotten "everyone on the dannflor wagon is scum" and "the dannflor wagon is scum deflecting away from their partner"

VOTE: Flavour Leaf

This is a terrible reason for a vote. How does Flavor's contradiction make him scum?

[singletonking]

VOTE: flavor leaf

zzz

And this is another terrible Flavor vote

I am kinda sussing Sheep overall now because I don't like his dwindling activity

[singletonking]

i think she kinda does, shes posting like she KNOWS im town
obviously the guilty isnt real
dont mind going gamma today
VOTE: gamma

Xtoxm why do you say you scumread Light and yet "don't mind lynching Gamma"?

[singletonking]

Eh idk I have too many scumreads

But currently the one I'm feeling the most strongly about is
VOTE: Wisdom

[singletonking]

like im way more confident on gamma than singleton

the last thing i need is a town singleton flip to he used as an excuse to not lynch gamma

Wisdom if you felt more confident on Gamma being scum than me, why did you vote me at daystart?

[singletonking]

Not really

Also, UNVOTE: Wisdom

[singletonking]

That was a long time ago, I forgot about those because I got disengaged, and recently not much has pinged me from Gamma either way

[singletonking]

Wisdom why is Brie scum

How he handled the Gamma lynch pinged me a bit but I vaguely remember his D3 play quite town

[singletonking]

I think we should fill this up

And since I claimed I popcorn to singleton

Agree with massclaim

I'm a VT
Popcorn to Xtoxm

[singletonking]

I agree with Brie's BP likely being a scum role

[singletonking]

After reading a bit I dislike Purr's case on Wisdom

I find his read flip on Wisdom quite inconsistent. He claimed to townread Wisdom before he claimed, but after he was questioned about scumreading Wisdom off the claim he twisted it to say that he was scumreading Wisdom off meta

[singletonking]

Wisdom is definitely town by the way, it's clear he's making the most attempts at gamesolving

[singletonking]

I reread
Forgot why I scumread Xtoxm, he has been pretty town today

[singletonking]

Wisdom/Nancy/Xtoxm town

I don't really have solid reads other than that

[singletonking]

I think I'd rather popcorn to light than Xtoxm now

[singletonking]

Purr why are you scumreading Wisdom

[singletonking]

What why are there so many votes on me

[singletonking]

Sigh

Wisdom/Nancy are my strongest townreads, and I don't really think Vonflare is scum either. I even disagree with him being jester because he claimed death miller at the start of Day 1 and there are probably no full jesters

[singletonking]

And the rest have posted too little to confidently read

[singletonking]

regarding multiball, my role pm states that I investigate not as 'mafia' but as a 'non-town faction'

so that's something

I still feel that non-miller wouldn't say this, so von is probably not fakeclaiming miller

[singletonking]

[singletonking]

Purr: you gave me fruit on N3 and N4, and you gave Nancy fruit on N1, correct? What did you do on N2?

flavor fruit


VOTE: singl

Yeah Purr is scum
VOTE: Purrocet

[singletonking]

I mean guys can you see that this wagon is moving really quickly, which is indicative of scum being on a mislynch?

Purr's vote is shady and with the Wisdom contradiction in reads is scummiest imo

[singletonking]

Oh

I was town

[singletonking]

Oh okay cool

I'm not scum though so would you like to talk?

[singletonking]

what

[singletonking]

But I mean I have been pretty detached from the game and am not confident in my reads. You and Nancy are pretty obvtown through your content, not just through hyperposting but that their posts actually have towny content. As for the others, I don't know.

You've stated townreading sheep, Kokichi and Enter, none of which I see have been producing town content recently. And sheep has done absolutely nothing today at all. I've found activity near endgame to be the most effective tell of people's alignment and I don't think the WIFOM hole of associatives should be used to cover their lurkyness. Why are you townreading them?

[singletonking]

GG

i only caught the 3ps this game. and i guess purr but he sort of scumclaimed

gg

You caught me too

[singletonking]

Just wanted to say thanks to hebi, purr, singleton, sheep, and dann for setting up the scum team real well. It was loads of fun playing with all of you (didn't play with hebi, but she gave me my TR so thanks still)

Thanks!

Though I wouldn't say I set up the scum team

[singletonking]

General scum policy--until the mod announces the game's over, it's not over.
Doesn't matter if you think you've won, treat it as if the game's still going and you could lose.

Inverse is also true; doesn't matter if you think you've lost, treat it as if it's still winnable and fight to the bitter end.

Is one of the main reasons effort != alignment for me; provided real-life constraints don't get in the way (which they often do, especially since my timezone clashes with most scummers so I'm not around to defend myself against being hammered at crucial times), I never give up so I'll always put in the requisite effort--and then some.

+1
I recently refused to end a game when mafia reached majority, because the wincon "kill everyone else" has not been met. While a massclaim had occured guaranteeing a successful kill, I wanted to leave open the possibility that the townies were lying in the massclaim.