What's this? A mastina 10-player pre-designed setup!
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:43 am
by implosion
or is it?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:44 am
by schadd_
hi
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:48 am
by mastina
mastina wrote:SETUP:
1x Loyal Loud Neighborizer (no day talk; obviously meant to function like a masonizer, but probably more like a 1x cop)
1x Vig
VT x6
Vs.
Multitasking Follower
Encryptor
Setup is obviously an almost micro.
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:57 am
by implosion
Does a loyal loud neighborizer alert mafia if they target them?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:04 am
by mastina
In post 3, implosion wrote:Does a loyal loud neighborizer alert mafia if they target them?
I'd think not.
Loyal causes the action to fail if targeting a different alignment, akin to being blocked.
You don't send the Loud message to a player if the sender was blocked, so that is my reasoning.
That'd probably be your call as listmod, actually, but this would be the way I'd personally think that it would.
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:13 am
by implosion
I think that's correct, just making sure the intent is clear.
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:01 pm
by schadd_
is "1x loyal loud neighborizer" and "1x vig" a one-shot or is it a singular instance of the role
i think it's a little too weak for town in the former and a little too strong in the latter
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:18 am
by mastina
In post 6, schadd_ wrote:is "1x loyal loud neighborizer" and "1x vig" a one-shot or is it a singular instance of the role
i think it's a little too weak for town in the former and a little too strong in the latter
One shot.
Also, this is essentially a micro.
No scum roleblocker.
Which means, no interference with either of the town PRs.
A Vig is conftown.
A successful neighborize thus creates 3 out of 7 players as conftown. How's that underpowered?
Failed?
Even better. Two conftown, one confscum.
Yes, that that the town roles live, Vig doesn't shoot the mafia kill, etc., but it is still reasonable to assume statistically things favor the town.
I was quite frankly worried that as is, the town would be op.
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:46 pm
by mastina
In post 7, mastina wrote:Also, this is essentially a micro.
No scum roleblocker.
Which means, no interference with either of the town PRs.
A Vig is conftown.
A successful neighborize thus creates 3 out of 7 players as conftown. How's that underpowered?
Failed?
Even better. Two conftown, one confscum.
Yes, that that the town roles live, Vig doesn't shoot the mafia kill, etc., but it is still reasonable to assume statistically things favor the town.
I was quite frankly worried that as is, the town would be op.
Another way of thinking about it:
If town lynches scum and vig shoots scum, game over before D2.
If town lynches scum and neighborize guilties scum, game over on D2.
If vig shoots scum and neighborize guilties second scum, game over on D2.
Those three scenarios are the best-case scenarios, but not at all out of the question.
The scenario where the vig is conftown assumes town mislynched and vig shot town, which is frankly speaking an almost-worst-case scenario.
The scenario where the neighborize gets an innocent and creates conftown isn't really worst or best-case; it's the most likely outcome.
The chances of a really bad/unfortunate town exist, but more likely than not, this is a game which will by the roles inherent, err on the more townsided outcomes by default. And there are far more ways for things to go right for the town than there are ways for things to go wrong for the town.
Which is why if anything I was worried about it being townsided as-is, even with them as a 1x vig and 1x loud loyal neighborizer lacking daytalk. (I'd say it'd depend by what metric you used. If by pure numbers, like ~56.5% townsided; if by play, probably dead on the mark balanced since towns are dumb, etc.)
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:33 pm
by schadd_
ya i think it's pretty close - i think it plays kind of similarly to the cop 9p setup except with early lynches / checks being harder and without outcomes where the cop dies early
i guess i was kind of concerned about the optics - two one shot roles forming town power is uncommon and i think people would believe a lategame fakeclaim easier
i was thinking a full (not loyal) neighborizer on top of the loyal one (so it can add more people to the hood later) would add a very slight ev to town and make things less confusing - or some other nominal kind of town power (fruit vendor? :] )
would pass the current thing if you are very into it
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:19 am
by mastina
My concern about a fruit vendor would be that it'd actually make it so that the scum had no wiggle room at all. Anything that they'd claim would be less believable, but if not claiming at all, the fruit vendor would be conftown.
Remember that without multitasking, and with fruit as a proven action, a fruit vendor is automatically less likely to be scum.
A neighborizer runs into those same issues, only WORSE. Neighborizers are, disproportionately, a town role ESPECIALLY in smaller singleball games, in part due to how OP a scum neighborizer is.
With them probably neighborizing each night, it's semi-proven that they aren't scum.
If I were to add power, I'd want it to both be gated and alignment neutral.
I suppose I could have a town Even Night Multitasking Fruit Vendor?
That is, an utter red herring. By my understanding, multitasking allows you to use two abilities the same night; with only one, the fruit vendor could still only target one person, on even nights (which basically means once in the game, only).
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:13 am
by mastina
Actually, I had another idea instead of a third active role: a passive one.
Specifically, Informed (keeping in mind that an informed player's information doesn't flip when they die), with the following:
"There are five modifiers in the game."
Those being, 1x, 1x, loyal, loud, and Multitasking.
If the Informed player asked, 'are duplicates included' or something to that effect, I believe that they would be owed an answer, which in this case, would be along the lines of, "duplicate modifiers would be included".
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:45 pm
by schadd_
sure, both of those seem fine
would honestly lean toward even night multi fruit vendor bc the inform might just be a cheap gotcha for some fakeclaims
if you do the inform i think itd make sense to put it on one of the roles (probably vig so the neighbor role PM isnt massive)
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:24 pm
by mastina
In post 12, schadd_ wrote:would honestly lean toward even night multi fruit vendor bc the inform might just be a cheap gotcha for some fakeclaims
I do need to type up the role PMs, but yes.
Setup's:
1x Loyal Loud Neighborizer (no day talk; obviously meant to function like a masonizer, but probably more like a 1x cop)
1x Vig
Even Night Multitasking Fruit Vendor
VT x5
[area=Town One-shot Loyal Loud Neighborizer]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=green]Town[/color] [wiki=X-Shot][color=green]One-shot[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Loyal][color=green]Loyal[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Loud][color=green]Loud[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Neighborizer][color=green]Neighborizer[/color][/wiki][/b].
During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, they will be added to [url=link]a neighborhood with you[/url].
Your action will only succeed on a player who shares your alignment.
Should your action succeed, your target will be told "[b][Your Name][/b] visited you last night!", but will not be told what action you used.
You win if all threats to [color=green]the [b]town[/b][/color] are eliminated, and at least one [color=green]town[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Town One-shot Vigilante]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=green]Town[/color] [wiki=X-Shot][color=green]One-shot[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Vigilante][color=green]Vigilante[/color][/wiki][/b].
During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, you will attempt to kill that player.
You win if all threats to [color=green]the [b]town[/b][/color] are eliminated, and at least one [color=green]town[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Town Even Night Multitasking Fruit Vendor]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=green]Town[/color] [wiki=Even/Odd Night][color=green]Even-Night[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Multitasking][color=green]Multitasking[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Fruit Vendor][color=green]Fruit Vendor[/color][/wiki][/b].
During the night, you may target a player. Should your action succeed, they will be told, "You have received a piece of fruit!".
You may only use this action on even-numbered nights.
You may use this action in addition to any other actions you have access to.
You win if all threats to [color=green]the [b]town[/b][/color] are eliminated, and at least one [color=green]town[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Vanilla Townie]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=green]Vanilla Townie[/color][/b].
Your only tools are your voice and vote.
You win if all threats to [color=green]the [b]town[/b][/color] are eliminated, and at least one [color=green]town[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Mafia Multitasking Follower]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=red]Mafia[/color] [wiki=Multitasking][color=red]Multitasking[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Follower][color=red]Follower[/color][/wiki][/b].
During the night, you may target a player.
Possible results: "Target used a Blocking Action", "Target used a Jailkeeping Action", "Target used a Protection Action", "Target used a Miscellaneous Action", "Target used a Killing Action", "Target used a Role Investigation Action", "Target used an Action Investigation Action", "Target Did Not Act", and "No Result".
You may use this action in addition to any other actions you have access to.
Your scumteam is comprised of [b]Playername[/b] ([wiki=Encryptor][color=red]Encryptor[/color][/wiki]).
You may talk in [url=link]your factional private topic[/url] only at night and pregame. However, for as long as Playername is alive, you may talk in there at any time, including the day.
During the night, your faction may send one of its members to a player. That member of your faction will attempt to [wiki=Nightkill]kill[/wiki] target player.
You may use this action in addition to any other actions you have access to.
You win if nothing prevents [color=red][b]mafia[/b][/color] majority and at least one [color=red]mafia[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Mafia Encryptor]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=red]Mafia[/color] [wiki=Encryptor][color=red]Encryptor[/color][/wiki][/b].
As long as you live, your factional private topic will remain open at all times.
Your scumteam is comprised of [b]Playername[/b] ([wiki=Multitasking][color=red]Multitasking[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Follower][color=red]Follower[/color][/wiki]).
You may talk in [url=link]your factional private topic[/url] only at night and pregame. However, for as long as you live, you may talk in there at any time, including the day.
During the night, your faction may send one of its members to a player. That member of your faction will attempt to [wiki=Nightkill]kill[/wiki] target player.
You cannot use this action if you are using another action that night.
You win if nothing prevents [color=red][b]mafia[/b][/color] majority and at least one [color=red]mafia[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Mafia Multitasking Follower]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=red]Mafia[/color] [wiki=Multitasking][color=red]Multitasking[/color][/wiki] [wiki=Follower][color=red]Follower[/color][/wiki][/b].
During the night, you may target a player.
Possible results: "Target used a Blocking Action", "Target used a Jailkeeping Action", "Target used a Protection Action", "Target used a Miscellaneous Action", "Target used a Killing Action", "Target used a Role Investigation Action", "Target used an Action Investigation Action", "Target Did Not Act", and "No Result".
You may use this action in addition to any other actions you have access to.
Your scumteam is comprised of [b][REDACTED][/b].
You may talk in [url=link]your factional private topic[/url] only at night and pregame.
During the night, your faction may send one of its members to a player. That member of your faction will attempt to [wiki=Nightkill]kill[/wiki] target player.
You may use this action in addition to any other actions you have access to.
You win if nothing prevents [color=red][b]mafia[/b][/color] majority and at least one [color=red]mafia[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
[area=Mafia Encryptor]Hello, [b]playername[/b].
You are a [b][color=red]Mafia[/color] [wiki=Encryptor][color=red]Encryptor[/color][/wiki][/b].
As long as you live, your factional private topic will remain open at all times.
Your scumteam is comprised of [b][REDACTED][/b].
You may talk in [url=link]your factional private topic[/url] only at night and pregame. However, for as long as you live, you may talk in there at any time, including the day.
During the night, your faction may send one of its members to a player. That member of your faction will attempt to [wiki=Nightkill]kill[/wiki] target player.
You cannot use this action if you are using another action that night.
You win if nothing prevents [color=red][b]mafia[/b][/color] majority and at least one [color=red]mafia[/color] player lives.
Confirm via PM.
[url=link]Game thread is here[/url].[/area]
I think that covers everything?
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:55 pm
by implosion
I should make it clear at some point that it's a Very Nice Thing for me when people explicitly list the final setup like in post 17 because then I can easily point to the post with the final setup.