13p pre-design courtesy of Bin-Lop A K A BulletNLynchProof

BNL · Post Post #1 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:54 pm

3 Mafia Goon
1 Town Miller 1-shot Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

BNL · Post Post #2 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:18 pm

I'll just let you know how I created this setup:
I like the idea of using a Loyal Neighbouriser as something like a Masoniser, it's even better than the old Weak Neighbouriser
I like the idea of attaching Miller to a town PR
I like the idea of using Loyal Jailkeeper that can protect town only but shouldn't block the town PRs.

Then I realised all these ideas worked well together, so I put them together.
And I thought if this was balanced, and decided that putting the 1-shot BP would make it more balanced.

BNL · Post Post #3 (isolation #2) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:42 am

Eh it's a bit scumsided I think
How about

3 Mafia Goon
1 Town Miller Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Odd Night Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

BNL · Post Post #5 (isolation #3) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:31 pm

Yeah I’m intersted in why this is balanced

BNL · Post Post #7 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:41 pm

Btw this is something that I found that's similar?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=76330

BNL · Post Post #8 (isolation #5) » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 pm

On second thoughts I am afraid this is may be too townsided, because I feel the loyal neighbouriser recruiting any town PR, even the BP, will create too much synergy

BNL · Post Post #10 (isolation #6) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:46 am

In post 9, mastina wrote:You can probably safely drop the BP (I almost recommended it initially before changing my mind)

What was your reasoning for dropping the BP, and what made you change your mind?

Although, this would be one of the possible things to drop if I want to balance the setup. The town can, at best, get 3 clears by D3; 5 if both claims are trusted, which quite toes the line. Additionally, if town get lucky they can recruit a BP which stops a kill, and maybe the JK gets to stop a kill as well.

But all these are really only analyzing the best cases, and it probably doesn't play out in practice. But removing the BP does push this in the right direction.

Eh maybe it's slightly townsided but a townsided setup isn't that bad once in a while.

BNL · Post Post #11 (isolation #7) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:49 am

Actually the problem is that the loyal neighbouriser is better than Cop, because the innos can out themselves even if the neighbourisers die without claiming.

How about moving the odd Night from the Gunsmith to the Neighbouriser, so that it becomes:

3 Mafia Goon
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

I have not mentioned this, but Mafia will be having daytalk because of potential townsideness of the setup, and the Neighbourhood will have daytalk too.

BNL · Post Post #13 (isolation #8) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:02 pm

I think I’m still a bit unconvinced on the balance and I want to call in another reviewer

BNL · Post Post #14 (isolation #9) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:03 pm

Actually

In post 1, BNL wrote:3 Mafia Goon
1 Town Miller 1-shot Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

Is this setup balanced?

BNL · Post Post #15 (isolation #10) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:08 pm

Idk

I think I’m running the risk of too many innos here

BNL · Post Post #16 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:13 pm

I think I want your opinions on the setup in 1 but otherwise I’m thinking about this:

3 Mafia Goon
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
7 Vanilla Townies

BNL · Post Post #17 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:21 pm

The issue I have with the first setup is that there’s a lot of random swing that can lose the game for town: the gunsmith dying early or the JK blocking the loyal neighbouriser are really bad for the town. On the other hand, I feel like promoting the 1-shot to odd-night is too much a boost to the town.

BNL · Post Post #18 (isolation #13) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:16 pm

What do you think about giving scum a Rolecop?

BNL · Post Post #19 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:07 pm

I’ll just say this: I’ve never seen 1.5 cops in an all goon setup.

Rolecop isn’t as powerful as it seems because of tempo loss.

BNL · Post Post #21 (isolation #15) » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:49 pm

How about a Watcher?

BNL · Post Post #23 (isolation #16) » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:50 pm

Hi I forgot about this

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Watcher
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

How does this look?

BNL · Post Post #25 (isolation #17) » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:52 pm

With the recent spate of townsided setups I'm getting worried about this setup that it may be on the townsided side

BNL · Post Post #27 (isolation #18) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:11 am

I've mulled it and I've realized what I didn't like most about the setup was the potential for the bulletproof to get inno'd. As such, I would like to make the BP ascetic to make that impossible. I also feel like it'll add negative utility to town in a way that will balance the setup out.

New setup:

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Watcher
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town Ascetic 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

Is this acceptable?

BNL · Post Post #29 (isolation #19) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:30 pm

Cool, I guess it's settled then

BNL · Post Post #31 (isolation #20) » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:47 pm

Somehow I was thinking that Millers investigated guilty to gunsmiths, which I revolved the setup around.

I just checked the wiki and realised this wasn't the case.

Uh...

BNL · Post Post #33 (isolation #21) » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:45 pm

It makes arguing out of the guilty much harder though

Can we upgrade the Watcher to a Rolecop in that case

BNL · Post Post #34 (isolation #22) » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:01 am

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Cop
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town Ascetic 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

Unrelated: I just realised that Jailkeepers do not have a gun

BNL · Post Post #36 (isolation #23) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:05 pm

I don't want Neapolitan, it defeats the point of the setup

BNL · Post Post #37 (isolation #24) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:01 pm

Alternatively I can buff both sides and run

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Town Miller Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Cop
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

BNL · Post Post #39 (isolation #25) » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:35 pm

I removed odd Night

BNL · Post Post #40 (isolation #26) » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:45 am

In post 34, BNL wrote:2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Cop
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town Ascetic 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

How about this? You suggested an alternative but never actually assessed this.

BNL · Post Post #42 (isolation #27) » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:37 am

I was fine with the Jailkeeper being an inno. I just wanted a Miller PR + Cop combination.

Mafia GoonWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Mafia Goon

Your teammates are Player (

Mafia Goon

) and Player (

Mafia Rolecop

)

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched
You may talk to your partners in the Mafia PT at any time
During the Night, as a factional action, you or a partner may carry out the factional nightkill

Win condition:
You win when all town players are dead or nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

Mafia RolecopWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Mafia Rolecop

Your teammates are Player (

Mafia Goon

) and Player (

Mafia Goon

)

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched
You may talk to your partners in the Mafia PT at any time
During the Night, as a factional action, you or a partner may carry out the factional nightkill
During the Night, you may investigate one player. You will be told that player's role
You may perform only one action per Night

Win condition:
You win when all town players are dead or nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

Vanilla TownieWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Vanilla Townie

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town are dead and there is at least one Town member alive

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

Town Miller Odd-Night Loyal NeighbourizerWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Town Miller Odd-Night Loyal Neighbourizer

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched
You will investigate guilty to Cops
You have a neighbourhood, which you may talk in at any time. Every odd Night (1,3,5,...), you may target someone to invite them to that neighbourhood. This action will fail if you target someone of a different alignment

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town are dead and there is at least one Town member alive

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

Town CopWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Town Cop

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched
Every Night, you may investigate someone to find out their alignment

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town are dead and there is at least one Town member alive

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

Town Loyal JailkeeperWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Town Loyal Jailkeeper

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched
Every Night, you may choose to jail a player. That player will be protected from all kills that Night, but all actions they perform that Night will fail. This action will fail if you target someone of a different alignment

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town are dead and there is at least one Town member alive

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

Town Ascetic 1-shot BulletproofWelcome to Mini XXXX, Player, you are a

Town Ascetic 1-shot Bulletproof

Abilities:
Every Day, you may vote for someone to get them lynched
All non-killing actions taken against you will fail
You will survive the first kill against you

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town are dead and there is at least one Town member alive

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to your role PM with your full role name.

BNL · Post Post #44 (isolation #28) » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:15 am

I forgot something:

Result PMs:

Spoiler: Mafia Rolecop

Spoiler: Town Cop

Spoiler: Town Miller Odd-Night Neighbourizer

BNL · Post Post #48 (isolation #29) » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:15 am

In post 47, StefanB wrote:Just looking trough, shouldn't the rolecop get Player is a Miller Odd-Night
Loyal
Neighbourizer instead of Player is a Miller Odd-Night Neighbourizer?

Oh, you're right

BNL · Post Post #49 (isolation #30) » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:16 am

In post 45, StefanB wrote:Hello, I was assigned this setup by Implosion. I understand the roles and the interaction.
I like that every cop has a miller, the cop the miller, and the neighborizer the 1-shot BP.

What were you trying to say with this?

BNL · Post Post #50 (isolation #31) » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:19 am

In post 46, StefanB wrote:To question: BP normally told if they loose their BP or not? I think not but I have seen both versions.

They are not informed, this is the standard.

Second when do I reveal who design the setup pre or post-game?

It's already written here that I created the setup. As for whether you want to reveal the reviewer, it's up to you. Some mods do, some don't.