13p pre-design courtesy of Bin-Lop A K A BulletNLynchProof

[mastina]

Eh it's a bit scumsided I think
How about

3 Mafia Goon
1 Town Miller Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Odd Night Gunsmith
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

Yep, that works. Can unpack this if need be, but that setup is definitely balanced and I'm prepared to stand by it being so.

[mastina]

Basically, loyal neighborizer is a cop; odd night gunsmith is a second cop. Town has sufficient investigative power to get a boost, but they're vulnerable--the jailkeeper can save their lives, but causes their investigatives to fail. Because the mafia have almost free reign over who to kill, the strong investigative power is something that they don't have to worry too much about, especially since there's heavy room for the town to assume their role failed for reasons other than hitting scum, and/or for scum to fakeclaim.

If the town roles live for long, they gain an advantage, but this is countered by how if they are taken out early (and there's little preventing this), the scum gain a huge advantage.

So while there's swing based around how long the strong investigatives live, the swing is balanced equally between which directions it can swing. Good townplay will reward the town heavily; good scumplay will reward the scum heavily.

[mastina]

On second thoughts I am afraid this is may be too townsided, because I feel the loyal neighbouriser recruiting any town PR, even the BP, will create too much synergy

I wouldn't remove much from the town. You can probably safely drop the BP (I almost recommended it initially before changing my mind), but I wouldn't recommend heavily nerfing town/buffing scum here.

[mastina]

That works just as well to me.
As for the BP, I initially thought it might be a bit much, in part due to the reason you mentioned, of it being cop cleared. I ultimately ruled that it being shot putting the game on evens meant that it wouldn't make much difference; for the town to gain a lynch, TWO kills need to be stopped, and that is something that while possible, is unlikely.

[mastina]

What do you think about giving scum a Rolecop?

Between the kill and the rolecop, that's two methods per night of finding the PRs--in a game where if the town PRs are eliminated early, the scum have a HUGE advantage. I'd avoid an ungated rolecop, but a gated one? Sure. Not quite sure what kind of gate to employ though--probably either odd-night or two-shot (which, given most games don't have the need to hunt for PRs on N5, are functionally almost identical, the difference being whether they get the second investigation on N2 or N3).

[mastina]

How about a Watcher?

That works as an investigative for scum, yes, and also works as a claim they can plausibly realclaim without being instalynched for it, too.

[mastina]

Looks good to me!

[mastina]

People who are complaining tend not to know what they're talking about, by and large

If you are still worried, drop the bp, it'd still be passable albeit I'd think scum would be more likely the victors by even a small margin, but I still recommend against radical redesigns. You don't want to lose the core of the setup.

[mastina]

It is!

[mastina]

Making the Gunsmith a cop doesn't affect the setup much; there's no Vig in the game, nor is there a Doc, so there's neither a false inno, nor a false guilty outside of the miller. So, you can make that change.

[mastina]

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Cop
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town Ascetic 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

Unrelated: I just realised that Jailkeepers do not have a gun

If you wanted both the jailkeeper and the miller to be guilties for the cop, you

could

use a Neapolitan, here, keeping the Mafia Watcher instead.

That way, the Neapolitan gets a guilty on the two town PRs it can investigate, and thanks to the change to ascetic, can't get a guilty on the bulletproof.

[mastina]

Alternatively I can buff both sides and run

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Town Miller Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Cop
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

This setup is a lot harsher on the town--with two loyal roles against a roleblocker, the town become a lot weaker for only the slight gain the cop gives.

[mastina]

2 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Town Miller Odd Night Loyal Neighbouriser
1 Town Cop
1 Town Loyal Jailkeeper
1 Town Ascetic 1-shot Bulletproof
6 Vanilla Townies

How about this? You suggested an alternative but never actually assessed this.

The alternative was suggested as something if you wanted the jailkeeper to be seen as a guilty to the investigative as part of the setup design, similarly to how you wanted the Neighborizer to be a guilty; a Neapolitan would be a role doing both.

But if you don't really want the jailkeeper to be a guilty to the investigative, then yeah this setup's fine.

[mastina]

Looks good!

[mastina]

To question: BP normally told if they loose their BP or not? I think not but I have seen both versions.

Standard is not. (I lost that battle long ago. I personally was in favor of telling them but alas.)

Second when do I reveal who design the setup pre or post-game?

Mod preference on this one. Personally I generally tend to follow games better if I know I reviewed them (which is easy to see if the mod puts it in the OP or such), and I know that as a player knowing who designed/reviewed can help me, but there's no official standard set one way or another.

I believe that, technically, the setup designer is revealed by implosion in the Normal queue thread, but I got the impression you were asking about the OP of the game thread and/or talking about including the reviewer, which is what I'm talking about; there's no standard.