Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Ankamius]

Dearest those present for this three hundred and fifth ninth Sultan's Dance.

It is my humble pleasure to present myself, Ms. Annabelle Kamillia Ushio III, or as the pseudonym listed upon the documents I sign within my father's business and the pseudonym the officiaries of this dance know me as, Ankamius. You may refer to me by this name or by my given name, Annabelle.

Lady Firebringer, it is nice to finally see you again. We haven't spoke in many years, yet you have been in my thoughts ever since the last time we saw each other. I hope you have prepared diligently for this dance, for this is a special event that is sure to bring about many fine suitors for you to choose from. If you play your cards correctly, you might be able to find someone who will elevate your means above what your father has been able to provide for you. Please do your utmost to give the best impression for the dance, I would dislike seeing you falter today.

Lady Alisae, I am afraid we have never met outside of meetings and glances during our work before, but I hope you find yourself well and prepared to conduct yourself as a proper lady affording your family name. Let us make this dance one to remember for all time.

Lady Nancy, I'm afraid I don't understand where you reside. 39 is a very strange last name for a family, especially one as distinguished as yours well enough to be invited to this year's ball. If you are not too busy with the company of your choosing, I would like to spend some time discussing the differences and similarities of our cultures and societies. I've always been wanting to travel throughout the world and I would be honored to know more about yours.

Lady TheBrie, I believe we have never met before, but I've every confidence in you being the lady that your reputation professes you are. Your father is one I've seen many times and is a friend of my own, so I believe we will have no problems getting along splendidly.

Lady Gamma, your progress is palpable. I remember school was rough for you, but your perseverance and commitment to pushing through and becoming a successful lady in your own right is an inspiration to us all. I have no doubt that your strong personality and strength will give the rest of us a lot to have to live up to when we reach the partner dance.

Lady Pink, I haven't heard of your family before. I will keep my eye on you to see if you are properly versed in the customs of this annual ball and if you are perhaps too out of your depth in this environment. Grace and refinement is the name of the game here, naught less will be acceptable.

Lady Taly, I hope the day finds you well. I've heard about the accident and give you none but my deepest apologies for what has happened. However, you are strong and this is a prime opportunity to sieze a new future for yourself, so do not lose heart. Your situation can only improve from here.

Gentleman PvtUrist, we have never gotten along properly as children, but I believe that is well in the past and that we may be able to discuss matters of business and even personal matters as professionals now that we are adults. I look forward to the opportunity to interact more, as I am optimistic that our family businesses can only improve with our ability to trust and work with each other in the future.

Gentleman Krazy, I've heard the great news that you have already taken over for your father as head of the business. I am grateful that you have decided to take the time out of your busy schedule to attend this Ball with the rest of us, who have yet to reach such a significant milestone. I expect that the success of this ball will be in no insignificant part due to your presence.

Gentleman RadiantCowbells, I admit I am somewhat surprised you have attended this year's ball. I remember the looks you gave to the most spirited girl attending our school, and I had assumed that you would have whisked her away from us by now. However, I only know enough of her nowadays to know that she is rarely in town. Perhaps it was chance, or it was fate, but either way I hope that if you and she had walked different paths, your fortunes change at this upcoming ball.

Gentleman Moment, I am pleased to see you attending the ball. I expect you realize by now how popular you were with us girls back in our youth, and now is the time for you to see if you still hold the same charm that you did back then. It will be fun to see, for all of us were excited when we saw you were attending this year along with all of us.

Gentleman Allomancer, I remember distantly how fond we were of each other a long time ago before we were forced onto separate paths dictated by the circumstances of our families. My parents did not approve of your presence in my life up to this point, but now there is nothing stopping me from walking my own path, so I look forward to us reconnecting without any fear or anxiety.

Gentleman Dannflor, I believe we have never met before. I recognize the family name of which you hail from, but I don't believe my family has had enough dealings for us to have met personally. I hope that we have an opportunity to formally introduce ourselves during the ball, for having more contacts in the business can only ever be a good thing.

Gentleman DoubtingThomas, I hope you have shaped up since your mischievous and rude endeavors when you were younger. I understand it is your personality to pull our hair and attempt to embarrass us to whoever else is present, but you will be expected to be on your best behavior during this ball. It is also in your best interest as well, since only the influential, wealthy, and/or shrewd will be present. Any of those would be an advantage to you that would benefit you in the longer term.

Gentleman Dr Worm, I am pleased to see that am esteemed doctor like you will be attending us today. I hope I speak for all of us in saying that your presence is like to bring a lot of prestige to this year's ball, and I sincerely hope you will allow me to inquire about your work when there is a free moment for us to talk. There is much I'm interested in learning about the healthcare profession, and it would be an honor to learn from the best.

Gentleman Vedith, I hope I am not mistaken in hearing that you had a rough divorce in the recent past. It brings a large amount of dishonor to a man to be divorced in such a way, and I hope that the rumors are simply baseless and incorrect. I assume there will be plenty of time for you to show us that there is more to you than this stain upon your family name. I will be watching, sir. I hope you do not disappoint.

Thank you everyone for attending this wondrous ball, it will be my honor to reconnect with those I know and to meet those that I have not. I sincerely believe that this event will be one that none of us will ever forget, now and into the future.

Thank you,
Annabelle Kamillia Ushio III
Ankamius

[Ankamius]

How the fuck did you all make over 100 posts in the time it took me to write that

[Ankamius]

Krazy is already a scumread.

[Ankamius]

Are you all forgetting that RC is in this game and that scum would take an opportunity to remove him ASAP if they could?

[Ankamius]

I agree that high coin ladies should claim since I did it last game

But I vehemently deny that skipping first dance is a good idea in any stretch

[Ankamius]

Dann is a scumread too btw

[Ankamius]

I agree that high coin ladies should claim since I did it last game

But I vehemently deny that skipping first dance is a good idea in any stretch

I agree

Dann is a scumread too btw

I disagree

He's done nothing that's town and the way he's dancing around the setup discussion feels too "scum trying to post a lot to hide how little they're saying" for my taste

[Ankamius]

Are you all forgetting that RC is in this game and that scum would take an opportunity to remove him ASAP if they could?

RC hasn’t even posted. Why are you defacto already assuming he’s town here?

Is a strategy I can see scum doing: identify the biggest threats and neutralize them asap

[Ankamius]

I'm really confused how suddenly coins matter this game when most people didn't care at all last game despite me ramming it down peoples throats all game

[Ankamius]

I'm just as confused as to why I'm being criticized for assuming RC is town when it should be blatantly obvious he will be the kill if he is town to people who have played with his town game, and that it's kind of really weird to suggest outright skipping the first dance and allowing scum to have their way with whoever they want first thing in the game.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm not following this plan and I'm going to heavily go against it if it gets traction like it has been

[Ankamius]

It's a simple 2+2

It's a scum motivated action

Krazy is a scumread thanks to that

Any questions

[Ankamius]

I agree that high coin ladies should claim since I did it last game

But I vehemently deny that skipping first dance is a good idea in any stretch

I agree

Dann is a scumread too btw

I disagree

He's done nothing that's town and the way he's dancing around the setup discussion feels too "scum trying to post a lot to hide how little they're saying" for my taste

A lot of people are posting a lot, very few people have said anything of value.

Vedith’s self preservation is town, also

Your posting specifically is wooden and doesn't even look to be advancing that discussion like everybody else's is

Why is that if you are town?

[Ankamius]

However, given that a mountainous in dance 2 can be really exhausting for town, I do think there is merit in going with at least some of the logic of scenario 2 -- have the top 4 coin ladies choose a man they townread that they can enjoy solving with or enjoy sorting rather than having it be over-determined by group consensus

Reminder that deadline doesn't reset off a lynch in Dance 2
So with that plan we'd have 8 days to sort 14 players

Another good point in favor to skipping first dance being a bad idea.

[Ankamius]

How the fuck did you all make over 100 posts in the time it took me to write that

It's a long post.
Also are those just flavor text or informed by interactions with the players in the past?

A couple of them

Most of it is made up

[Ankamius]

I'm just as confused as to why I'm being criticized for assuming RC is town when it should be blatantly obvious he will be the kill if he is town to people who have played with his town game, and that it's kind of really weird to suggest outright skipping the first dance and allowing scum to have their way with whoever they want first thing in the game.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm not following this plan and I'm going to heavily go against it if it gets traction like it has been

If you’re referring to me, I wasn’t criticized. I just said, we shouldn’t assume anyone’s alignment before they’ve even posted.

Well, I was scum along with Fire and LLD in Witches’ Ball and we only killed RC because he was IC because he was hard townreading my slot, because he wrongly read Short. Me and Fire never would have killed him otherwise.

That's the most likely scenario I'm seeing though?

[Ankamius]

How the fuck did you all make over 100 posts in the time it took me to write that

It's a long post.
Also are those just flavor text or informed by interactions with the players in the past?

A couple of them

Most of it is made up

Okay
How made up was mine?

Yours was entirely made up

Any that aren't were from very recent stuff and we haven't interacted at all in a long while now

[Ankamius]

I think I finally have my first townread

Congratulations firebringer

[Ankamius]

Yours was entirely made up

Any that aren't were from very recent stuff and we haven't interacted at all in a long while now

Don't think it has been that long?[/quote]

I was on a hiatus for a long time so it feels like it to me

[Ankamius]

I think I finally have my first townread

Congratulations firebringer

well I don't like this townread. take it back

You can take it or I'll make you take it

Your choice my dear

[Ankamius]

Sigh... They always react like this

[Ankamius]

Vedith is fine

[Ankamius]

im feeling better about

vedith

at the moemnt

ank

, can you outline your thoughts specifically on

krazy's

plan being an idea that comes from scum?

allo

is my only scumread at the moment, im looking at

nancy

and

dann

for sorting

+1 to

fire/ali/ank

but still thinking here

I'm just as confused as to why I'm being criticized for assuming RC is town when it should be blatantly obvious he will be the kill if he is town to people who have played with his town game, and that it's kind of really weird to suggest outright skipping the first dance and allowing scum to have their way with whoever they want first thing in the game.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm not following this plan and I'm going to heavily go against it if it gets traction like it has been

[Ankamius]

I thought Gammas point about skipping first dance halving our time to scum hunt with flips was a good one too

[Ankamius]

allomancer is scum this game btw

Why?

nancy don't make me suspect u this early

Why? Because I want to know why you think Allo is scum?

Why do you feel really weird this game Nancy

[Ankamius]

allomancer is scum this game btw

Why?

nancy don't make me suspect u this early

Why? Because I want to know why you think Allo is scum?

Why do you feel really weird this game Nancy

I don’t think I do. Why do you think that?

Well, you do. You're missing a couple markers that you've given just about every town game I've seen from you

[Ankamius]

welp Nancy is scum no 2.


we almost have solved the game

so far I am liking your solve

thanks.

i am not even trying though tbh. allo and nancy are just being out there right now with regards to behavior that makes it easy to tell that this isn't normal.

like allomancer is making post with a half certainty he wouldn't do, then explaining himself in a way he wouldn't. All shady
nancy is questioning stuff in the "omg i am so clueless I have no idea what this means" sort of way that is way out of town her sense of idea of things going on.

Game tooo ezzzy

I think there's an even more damning thing she's doing but I need to confirm it first

[Ankamius]

allomancer is scum this game btw

Why?

nancy don't make me suspect u this early

Why? Because I want to know why you think Allo is scum?

Why do you feel really weird this game Nancy

I don’t think I do. Why do you think that?

Well, you do. You're missing a couple markers that you've given just about every town game I've seen from you

Like what? How am I even remotely different here than I was in the original aborted version?

Thanks

[Ankamius]

Taly can be town I guess
Alisae can be town too

[Ankamius]

I think Taly tries harder to obvtown as scum in this situation

I don't think it's likely he's scum here

[Ankamius]

Nancy, I've seen enough to pretty confidently solidify you as a strong scum read. I wasn't actually asking what you saw me ask.

[Ankamius]

Oh, and if she's talking more about meta than anything else, it's even more town Nancy

No.

Trust me, she's thinking from a scum mindset.

[Ankamius]

I am being townread too easily here and its making me uncomfortable.

Probably means your scum. That's upsetting. :(

Why would that make him scum?

Another good post for why Nancy is scum.
Missing the obvious context that Vedith is screwing around.

Yea, there are a lot of these kinds of posts in Nancy's ISO. Too eager to question and look town without really thinking through it or purposefully propelling things forward.

I’m “eager to look town”? What are you smoking dude?

Wrt the latter, tell me once again how this is different from every other game I’ve ever played.

FTR, this is exactly how I caught scumNancy in heroes wanted:

Town Nancy: "Why are you reading me wrong?"

Scum Nancy: "Why are you scumreading me?"

Nancy as town doesn't care as much for the read itself as much as what the read means. Nancy as scum is the opposite.

[Ankamius]

I think the main reason we can't talk about alignments in the first iteration is related to the investigation

Either way we were told not to and should respect that, we were only given permission to talk about the game in general and presumably things not related to alignment.

[Ankamius]

Oh, and if she's talking more about meta than anything else, it's even more town Nancy

No.

Trust me, she's thinking from a scum mindset.

No, we’re not fucking trusting you on jack. You keep calling me scum here, without giving me even a single goddamned reason. That is not acceptable.

You're reacting the exact same way you did in heroes after doing almost exactly the same strategy

[Ankamius]

I've told you a few times why Nancy

[Ankamius]

Okay, so apparently I’m scum for not automatically being convinced Allo’s scum here, got it.

nope. keep trying.

No, you and everyone who keeps throwing all of this bs shade on me. YOU fucking tell ME, because I’m really losing patience with this riddle I’m being scumread for not solving and I’m not going to continue to keep banging my head against a brick wall, as why I’m being wrongly scumread here.

I'll give you another reason I was scumreading you in heroes that you are also showing here: you are showing a lot of initiative in getting people to interact but you're not using it to scumhunt

[Ankamius]

Krazy

It's very rare that people have influence after they die on this site

[Ankamius]

Additionally, we can consider mitigating this, but pairing strong players with nulls or scumleans to mitigate losing two strong players to a single kill.

btw I'm not hard advocating this right now, I'm just saying that "we need to do something to protect strong players from the nightkill" doesn't mean we need to rework the entire plan here necessarily

Do you understand where my point comes from?

[Ankamius]

Ok, this is going nowhere fast.

If anyone needs something different from me, I'll get to it later. Until then, I'm leaving to finish up my work.

[Ankamius]

It's null.

There. Done.

[Ankamius]

idk this hyper concern about people scumreading her could be town but the way she is doing it really seems scum.
like we point out a reason and she is like "YOUR NOT SCUMREADING ME FOR THAT!" or "WHY ARE PEOPLE SCUMREADING ME!"
Like she lives on another planet where we can't scumread her for some things and that no one is explaining their reads.

Is it AI? maybe not but it is definitely impossible to engage with.

It's a scumtell. There's a way to get reads from this that I think she would have taken by now if she was town, or at least tried to sort us at all. Instead she's going about it like somebody who already knows we are all town and doesn't need to sort.

OK now I'm gone for real. Have fun guys

[Ankamius]

Nancy are you replacing or not

Because if you are, you need to stop posting.

[Ankamius]

Oh boy.

Firebringer is right even if he wasn't polite about it. You are acting very immature currently, and posting after requesting a replacement is not only incredibly rude, but also says that you're not actually ready to leave.

Plus, if you are not intending to leave, using the replacement request for in game purposes by continuing to post after requesting replacement is just disrespectful to everybody else in the game.

You cannot have it both ways.

[Ankamius]

Dannflor is just always typing what he thinks people want to hear.

I don't think so. Why do you think that?

Just whenever someone says something, he more or less says it just re words.

You can be town

[Ankamius]

No any new car is mine

[Ankamius]

Oh fuck now I'm tilted all over again

[Ankamius]

Oh fuck now I'm tilted all over again

come stonedpost with me Celica and Dunn aren't here to run our fun

OK what do you want to talk about

[Ankamius]

I've never been suspended on league

What do I win

[Ankamius]

They're made up

[Ankamius]

I never have been either but I also gave my account away to someone else
I actually don't have a bad record of freezes or anything on DB (if anything, when I play Yugioh I just play fast) because I'm generally the nicer person and I played the soltiaire, ftk decks of the format so generally I expect people are going to be dicks since I'm the one palying the not fun no interaction deck let me play solitaire plus people were generally way worse then the toxicity I threw at others there. In fact I used to be staff there so I'm on good terms with most people there.

Idk what db is actually

[Ankamius]

Oh nice

I haven't ever done any competitive yugioh stuff at all so I don't know very much about it in the first place

I didn't even watch any of the shows past the first series

[Ankamius]

This alt is going to be a headache, I can already tell

[Ankamius]

What are your reads atm urist

[Ankamius]

RC why is Nancy town?

[Ankamius]

TBH

I haven't even read NDS iso

I'm just assuming she's villa based on how you've described her which sounds a lot like her villa game

Yeah, I would read through ND39s iso and then give a read on it, there's one huge thing from her town game that has been entirely absent here and it's not the AtE

[Ankamius]

RC why is Nancy town?

Why is

Nancy

scum again?

I was too busy noticing the quick, several-person strong push on her to remember why it was valid?

I'm floored if everyone who has spoken about a scumread on

Nancy

is town.

The whole topic and last 10 pages are a bullshit red herring from actually having contructive dialogue for town.

Do you have other reads

Ank

?

You said

Dann

and

Krazy

are scum, so has anything changed? Why?

We're taking the heat off of Nancy because why?

ISO me and search for her

I detail it well enough already I believe

[Ankamius]

That was at Taly, not urist

Sorry

[Ankamius]

There I read it and I townread her

Does that make you feel any differently

Why do you townread her

[Ankamius]

RC might be scum this game

Sigh

[Ankamius]

i dont think so

He's starting to go down the path I expected he would as scum.

[Ankamius]

Btw RC

I'm just going to point out again

I saw Nancy play this exact same way as scum before, so that absolutely is not a reason to townread her, at best it is null.

[Ankamius]

I fucking hate this site

[Ankamius]

this is the SECOND FUCKING time that I've written this huge post and clicked submit

AND THE SITE DECIDED THAT MEANS GO TO A RANDOM PAGE AND LOSE MY POST

fuck this I'm leaving for the night

[Ankamius]

this is the SECOND FUCKING time that I've written

this

a huge post and clicked submit

AND THE SITE DECIDED THAT MEANS GO TO A RANDOM PAGE AND LOSE MY POST

fuck this I'm leaving for the night

correcting

it didn't happen twice here, it happened once before in another game

[Ankamius]

k well RC

here's the tl;dr

confrontation starts here

1. nd39 scumhunts less in these two games than every other game I've ever seen her
2. her fluff this game is jagged and doesn't have a cohesive thought process before she started getting scumreads
3. the way she responds to me calling her out is indicative of her having ulterior motives in both cases

and the reason I jumped to wolf over correct town with you is because I expected scum-you to shield her when you came in

any questions

[Ankamius]

it's a lot less elegant than what I had before but I'm not writing that whole thing out again

[Ankamius]

I'm going to ToL for a bit

see you all tomorrow

[Ankamius]

If we are really going to go all in on the early end to dance 1, I'm probably going to completely avoid pairing with anyone

I'm also going to avoid pairing if Vedith thinks its a good idea for him to vote at all in the second lynch of dance 1.

[Ankamius]

Cool

Then I'm not going to waste everybody's time by pairing up at all

Thanks Firebringer, you're the best

[Ankamius]

You guys should just choose one other pair to leave predance so that Vediths shit tier reads don't fuck you over dance 1 and this idea that we should just skip dance 1 entirely isn't seriously considered still

[Ankamius]

I don't give a shit who chooses

[Ankamius]

Thank you for taking it at least a little seriously

[Ankamius]

I stayed up for about 10 hours playing a 10-11 year old ygo videa game
I’m going to bed
Tho honestly, I’m having issues getting invested in this game. Dunno why tbh, but this game just seems so boring.

Anyhow nite

I'm joining the club on that

Want to just troll around for the rest of predance?

[Ankamius]

TIL Dann has a scummier evil twin

[Ankamius]

Vedith is paired with fire lol

That's why I don't care anymore

[Ankamius]

Yeah I don't trust him to not yololynch me when he gets the opportunity to

[Ankamius]

Just leave worm out

[Ankamius]

Yeah I don't trust him to not yololynch me when he gets the opportunity to

You realise the odds are in favour of me taking out Fire over you, right?
Instead of just complaining because I think you could be scum, tell me who's scum other than Nancy. And I'll listen.

Taking out one of my stronger townreads isn't really any better

[Ankamius]

Taking out one of my stronger townreads isn't really any better

Then that lovely lady Fire should impress me in the PT.
You of all people should know that reads can change past this point so I don't understand what the dramatics are for?

Tell me who's scum other than Nancy. And I'll listen.

Because now we are at a point where the highest coin lady and the only one that truly matters chose a gentleman that I don't trust to not yololynch

And your reads are ass backwards enough that there's going to be a lot more support for just skipping the first dance entirely, which btw is bad for town regardless, but now it probably will be the only good play we have since I don't doubt you will take matters into your own hands and remove half the time we have to solve the game via a suicide or a lynch.

So yes, I'm really pissy in this game because that one simple action might have completely fucked the game for town regardless of your alignment, and I am already at the point where I'm damn certain I've obvtowned 3 times over and yet I am at enough of a risk of being lollynched anyways that I don't really want to put in the amount of effort needed to try to work past it and keep town from imploding into a suicide spiral or whatever loses town these games. I'd rather just never pair and watch the train wreck unfold while doing the one thing I can do that might help against both of these situations.

[Ankamius]

If that's your description of my ISO this game, you're not going to listen.

[Ankamius]

I've given reads on like 6 people before Nancy's meltdown

The comments about setup other than commenting on Krazys ideas were all sarcasm. All my comments on Krazys ideas and the scumread on him were all serious.

I'm more upset that the 8 coins weren't taken seriously despite how many different people in so many different times drilled it in that it needs to be taken seriously, and you've mentioned before that you would probably lynch me.

So yes, all I've done all game is death tunnel one slot and complain.

[Ankamius]

And no I don't have updated reads because I'm not motivated to use my private PT because I am not convinced it will matter

I think it's a lot more useful to just take two people with me to the grave since I'm pretty sure the amount of time and effort it would take to get through all these pages of mostly nothing is not going to be worth what I'd get out of it.

[Ankamius]

If we are really going to go all in on the early end to dance 1, I'm probably going to completely avoid pairing with anyone

I'm also going to avoid pairing if Vedith thinks its a good idea for him to vote at all in the second lynch of dance 1.

just wondering but why

you could a) not pair and give vedith the power to lolhammer anyone, unless we somehow force a second pair to not dance either
or b) get a flip on lowest gentleman and also a flip on two townies
and then, if you wanted to (I am not advocating this) leave the dance

why avoid pairing before dance rather than leave the dance at start of dance 2 after no lynching dance 1 (or possibly lynching 2 pairs but I'm a lot less optimistic about that with vedith)? wouldn't you rather decide to leave the dance when you have more information rather than less?

I'm always going to be vehemently against dance suicides outside of very specific circumstances.

[Ankamius]

I'm controversial enough that knowing I'm town will help people's reads

And you get to flip the two scummiest gentlemen too

[Ankamius]

Ok

See you in a couple days

[Ankamius]

I'm controversial enough that knowing I'm town will help people's reads

And you get to flip the two scummiest gentlemen too

are you controversial?

You're aggressive but idk that's the same thing

Enough people are scumreading me for some reason so yeah I'm controversial

[Ankamius]

Yeah that about sums it up

[Ankamius]

Ok I'm being serious worm.

Your posts are really hard to parse.

[Ankamius]

I went into both the scumreads in my ISO

I never stated any read on allo

[Ankamius]

Krazy read is kinda weak in general

RC because this is the kind of play I'd suspect him to have relevant to my own reads as scum more than town

[Ankamius]

But

I will grant that part of that is I don't think he legitimately scumreads me; I can understand not townreading but a full scumread is really iffy since he has played with me enough (and has indicated that he does have the ability to think through it ala Fallout 4) to understand that nothing I've done is all that out of the ordinary for town games that I struggle in

[Ankamius]

Games that I struggle in as town*

[Ankamius]

Taly I'm seeing one of the primary town markers I see now so I'm at the point where I'm just going to put her in her own category and never revisit it again because it's really a lot more trouble than it's worth this game

[Ankamius]

End of predance, Taly

[Ankamius]

read on ank is changing, may want to pair with her again

I'm still not convinced I want a partner at all tbh

[Ankamius]

During the pre-dance, a GENTLEMAN can ask a LADY to the dance in thread. Each LADY can accept only one dance proposal.
At the end of the pre-dance, any player who doesn't have a dance partner will be asked to leave the dance. (death)
Each dance pair will then become Lovers, and they will be given a private topic to discuss the game.

The order answers your question, Taly

[Ankamius]

@ank don't worry about vedith I am going to put him in his place whether he likes it or not. and if he tries to threaten me with another leave, he is going to be disappointed.

OK well are you certain of this

Because you're playing with fire here

[Ankamius]

Taly I'm seeing one of the primary town markers I see now so I'm at the point where I'm just going to put her in her own category and never revisit it again because it's really a lot more trouble than it's worth this game

Egh... What is this town marker and why is it so much of a problem to revisit me?

I don't like being shelved.

End of predance, Taly

ty <3

also, did you respond to my in 1108? If you have... I might've overlooked over the constant bullshit convo in the thread.

I'm referring to Nancy

[Ankamius]

Because there's really no point in pushing her regardless of her alignment, that's going to do more to derail the game than anything else

[Ankamius]

Idk Taly

I don't have strong reads right now

[Ankamius]

lets start with

Krazy

them, because I have several reasons to think he's town and I'm legit ready to pair with him.

Tbh I kinda don't like he approached the game with how much he has pushed for weird actions without really hunting beyond that

But setup speccers I can't generally read so

[Ankamius]

Ank do u still think Nancy is scum. because I do.

Taly I'm seeing one of the primary town markers I see now so I'm at the point where I'm just going to put her in her own category and never revisit it again because it's really a lot more trouble than it's worth this game

[Ankamius]

Yup

[Ankamius]

feelsbadman
well I am going apathy mode too.

lets spread apathy game wide

Get Alisae in here

She can help spread it around

[Ankamius]

E sorry

[Ankamius]

Can you throw it at my head

[Ankamius]

Or you can throw it at my head and be done with it

[Ankamius]

I think you and Nancy are tvt

[Ankamius]

Would you confscum him if he didn't

[Ankamius]

Would you confscum RC if he didn't defend you

[Ankamius]

This is giving me a headache

I'll be back later

[Ankamius]

It is a lot easier to make sure we can set ourselves up to properly make it through intermission with the highest information per slot ratio when we don't lolpartner in the first 12 hours

[Ankamius]

Like... Yeah, scum have more of an impact on the pairs if we wait, that's kind of how anything goes in mafia when it goes on long enough. The thing that makes it worthwhile is that it also forces scum to leave a more clear footprint to what they're doing, and therefore makes it harder to hide that they are in fact manipulating things.

Plus you mention that waiting will muddy things for people who are confident now, but it's hard to believe anyone is truly confident when there are multiple slots that haven't gotten a foothold in the game yet. And if they say they are, they are most likely being very premature in saying so.

[Ankamius]

:/ I'm not lolpartnering...

I mulled my Krazy read in my head and I have a stronger scumread on them again, so I think he's not a good partner for you.

[Ankamius]

:/ I'm not lolpartnering...

I mulled my Krazy read in my head and I have a stronger scumread on them again, so I think he's not a good partner for you.

Specifically, the fact that he reached out to you at all is pinging me.

[Ankamius]

Explain why, as I've wanted to hear your read on them for a good while now...

Because I've felt from the beginning of the game that his entire approach to the game has been really off.

It doesn't mesh in my head for him to suggest all of these mechanic options and look to push the thread into detailing how exactly we are going to handle the game, and then suddenly offer you a dance when he has barely gone into any of his reads at all.

It's completely bizarre and I'm having trouble seeing how he doesn't have an outside agenda to what he's doing here, because it looks to me like he's trying to hide behind his setup spec while he secures his spot in the dance.

[Ankamius]

He's talked about people but it feels like fluff rather than attempts to game solve

[Ankamius]

Considering what I've seen of him in the past, it sure as fuck looks like an agenda to me.

[Ankamius]

anka, frozen?

???

[Ankamius]

also feel like I'm taking crazy pills when ppl like Brie saying Allo's recent posting is better because I feel like it's getting worse

maybe I'm conf biasing

I'm closer to townreading him now than anytime yesterday if it helps

[Ankamius]

allomancer, moment (because I am lazy), and TheBrie.

THE SCUM TEAM OF GLORY

replace moment with ank since I promised I would tunnel her.

She is obv scum too. We should lynch her.

Awwwwwwwww patpat

You're too cute :3

[Ankamius]

Still wolfreading pvturist

My read on you is little different than it was yesterday

I think I'll eventually just snap decide on brie and be right I'm not really forcing myself to read her rn

Who are you talking to

[Ankamius]

Where are your reads at in general rc

[Ankamius]

Dw Nancy you will get someone

I'll be the only unmatched lady here

[Ankamius]

Only gent I would accept atm is Krazy

[Ankamius]

Idk I don't even remember who is lady and who is gent

[Ankamius]

Tbh I would go to a date with sentient bread just because it sounds a lot more fun than the average teenager

[Ankamius]

Amazing since excluding myself I'd say there's 3 gents who are pretty locktown and none of them are Krazy

Cool

Because my scumread on him is exactly why!

[Ankamius]

Only gent I would accept atm is Krazy

is it cuz they dont scum read you lolmao

You could read like three posts after that you know

[Ankamius]

Thank you for ignoring my question btw RC

[Ankamius]

Didn't see it

Looked back and still don't see it
Ask again?

I asked what your reads were

[Ankamius]

anka what's your read on me?

Null to light town

[Ankamius]

Any reads that I haven't already shared I have no intentions of sharing until I can sit at the game for a couple of hours and hammer things out. That'll be before sunday

Ok

Why did you respond the way you did to my statement about dancing with Krazy

[Ankamius]

Any reads that I haven't already shared I have no intentions of sharing until I can sit at the game for a couple of hours and hammer things out. That'll be before sunday

Ok

Why did you respond the way you did to my statement about dancing with Krazy

Because I found both you and him some variant of off-putting and you singling him out as what I assumed was your top townread didn't mesh with the gamestate imo

Nope

He's my only real scumread atm

[Ankamius]

feelsbadman
well I am going apathy mode too.

lets spread apathy game wide

Get Alisae in here

She can help spread it around

Ank is Alisae town this game?

Idk probably?

[Ankamius]

Krazy why do you want me even out of predance

[Ankamius]

Krazy why do you want me even out of predance

I had a whiff of town Ank yesterday at one point and I want to see more

Aren't you at all worried about the fact that I seem to be almost universally scumread?

[Ankamius]

I could've sworn I saw like 5-6 different people scumreading me

guess I was wrong

[Ankamius]

uhhhhh I'll need to reassess then

[Ankamius]

I'm kinda not feeling RCscum anymore

at least my baseline isn't there anymore

[Ankamius]

Nancy chill

just sort and decide later

[Ankamius]

While Ank is being aggressive-ish in her push on me (I wouldn't say she's unleashed the inner Ank fire quite yet)

ngl you got a smile out of me for this

[Ankamius]

friend politics are overrated

[Ankamius]

broken hearts are very compelling pink

[Ankamius]

;_;

[Ankamius]

ok maybe I should start trying to get reads on gentlemen?

[Ankamius]

1.PvtUrist
2.Krazy
3.RadiantCowbells
4.Moment
5.Allomancer
6.Dannflor
7.DoubtingThomas
8.Dr Worm

9.Vedith

wow

yeah this is looking really grim

[Ankamius]

no, vedith is crossed out because he's paired

[Ankamius]

this is one of those annoying games where scumreads are easy to get and townreads are very hard to get

I HATE games like this

[Ankamius]

no read

[Ankamius]

slightly yeah

[Ankamius]

like I can try ranking the gentlemen

but I only even have reads on Krazy/RadiantCowbells/Allomancer/Dannflor

the rest are just... not impressive enough? I guess?

[Ankamius]

I'm kind of paranoid about Allo mainly because I feel like I should be understanding their reads and stances more than I actually do

[Ankamius]

this is one of those annoying games where scumreads are easy to get and townreads are very hard to get

I HATE games like this

want to borrow my reads?

I'd like really any reads on the gentlemen in general

[Ankamius]

dnnflor and ank would be a good pair imo.

I strongly doubt we would make a good pair

his playstyle is too old school for me

[Ankamius]

Yea Ank doesn't want me

out of curiosity, what do you mean by old school?

playstyle that was more common back in 2012 when you joined

best way I can describe it is that old school is more each post is a high school essay while most posts nowadays are twitter posts

[Ankamius]

good

the amount of fucking walls that were prevalent back then still give me nightmares

[Ankamius]

ok well

I have this weekend off of work so I promise I will make an attempt to do analysis stuff so I can actually get some reads this game beyond "idk maybe town???" or "idk maybe scum???"

[Ankamius]

How far are you in the thread so far moment?

[Ankamius]

you have no idea how happy I am that somebody else thought the exact same thing I did about that

[Ankamius]

I'm still pissed that the one post I lost is gone because I went a lot more into that than I ended up doing

[Ankamius]

btw, heroes wanted is a bit different in the mech sense in that her part in that exchange was discussing employing a pretty blatant pro-scum strategy with her scumpartner and just tunneling on that for a good chunk of the game

[Ankamius]

"for a good chunk of the game"

try good chunk of the day instead, idiot

sorry me

[Ankamius]

anyways

I'm liking what Moment has had to say so far, even taking the Nancy stuff out; he can be the first gentleman townread I have

[Ankamius]

Am I weird for still kinda not wanting to partner up at all still

[Ankamius]

Am I weird for still kinda not wanting to partner up at all still

I'm not sure if you would take it in the complimentary way I mean, but:
you're weird but not for that reason

We'll it depends on the kind of weird you mean tbh

[Ankamius]

This is kinda weird because I have one completed scum game ever and it was in like 2012

Yeah sorry I'm still figuring out how to talk about you. I should try to do reads based purely off play this game so that my perspective on you is more coherent.

Spoiler:

I'm just going to say that my read of Dann is going to be heavily skewed by an ongoing game where I'm on a stealth alt so I'm just going to vaguely mutter 'probably town' unconvincingly and let the rest of you deal with his slot for a bit

You have to judge by play and his play has seemed pretty damned townie here. I tend to townread anyone who mindmelds with me though.

Usually that's not a bad idea but that can be a sign that you're off base if an otherwise sketchy player is agreeing with you on everything

[Ankamius]

Allo scummy

He isn’t towning it up like he did last time. He was obvtown there.

That's not evidence he's scum, the games started very differently

[Ankamius]

Cue Thomas coming into the thread to call me out for defending Allo

[Ankamius]

Tbh Krazy

I used that as an example but it wasn't exactly what my issue with you was at that point

I just have a very hard time putting gut twinges that strong into words

[Ankamius]

I don't scumread mechanical posting just for being mechanical posting

I genuinely thought the way you handled it was scummy

[Ankamius]

Fair enough, although I guess I would still say -- the most obvtown pair is going to die, and I still kinda don't get why you think the town is way worse off with that being before we start lynching rather than after we lynch two pairs and maybe risk a second pair getting lynched by a desperate scumread player like vedith

like my "no lynch" argument was basically for this exact scenario

I think going into second dance with more than 12 players is just inherently bad for town, honestly

I'm very wary of letting scum have that much influence in who doesn't get a voice in the game anymore before we maximize what we can get from everyone still alive

If we measure the game in % progress where 100% means a town win, then we are giving scum the tools to potentially cripple us by removing potentially two players with the highest ability to increase towns progress before they have the proper influence to use what flips are already there to increase the progress bar.

Does that metaphor make sense?

[Ankamius]

@People who scum read Ankamius

Does scum ever go for the gambit of persistently insisting that they don't really wanna partner up at all for the pre-dance? Apathy isn't necessarily alignment indicative but idk why scum would be that vocal about potentially just offing themselves for the greater good or whatever

I get scumread for the dumbest shit every game, it would not surprise me to see like 3 or 4 people scumread me for this exact reason

[Ankamius]

Well vedith voting at all at 14p is just a stupid idea in every scenario so

It's the same problem that worries me about this setup: Scum getting the 8 coins, instalynching at 14p, then scum killing the most impactful town pairing and making the 8 coin lady the IC

It's really not worth it because it makes the IC thing meaningless

[Ankamius]

btw, heroes wanted is a bit different in the mech sense in that her part in that exchange was discussing employing a pretty blatant pro-scum strategy with her scumpartner and just tunneling on that for a good chunk of the game

I had no idea what I was doing but that was also true for Undertale. Did you ever check out that game?

Are you talking about the game here that was a colossal train wreck that was about 5 months of pure torture as I had to watch my sanity slip away until finally I got solo endgamed despite getting probably the most amazing role I've ever seen on the site because one other player decided that I shouldn't ever get any use out of my role?

Because I try to ignore that game ever existing tbh

[Ankamius]

It's really not worth it because it makes the IC thing meaningless

I mean that's precisely why it's worth it for scum, because they can just throw IC on firebringer if vedith was in fact scum here

I need to find a way to stop talking about the possibilities in dance 1 but I guess I don't see why you can't recognize that I pretty genuinely did not want dance 1 to be really fucking stupid for town even if you disagree with my conclusions

I understood the implications before anybody else did

That's why it pissed me off to no end that Firebringer rolled the 8 coin lady and pissed it away like he did

[Ankamius]

Like I even said that we might have to go with your plan, which is suboptimal, because of that fuckup

[Ankamius]

Well... Specifically the action, not him entirely >_>

Sorry, I worded that badly

[Ankamius]

So yeah

I am starting to think it's better to have 2 ladies sit out than to deal with risking vedith being scum or a yolobomber

It cuts the first dance still, but it is a lot less risk and it's easier to plan around than just no lynching and trying to solve the game with the 4 extra players since we can force a large group of scummy and useless players to leave

[Ankamius]

Nancy I commented because you don't sound convinced.

[Ankamius]

Well I don't know what else to suggest?

You're going to have a hard time selling me on pairing with anyone here since I'm not convinced it's very realistic that I'll be able to get a partner in this game that I will be able to work with, or even if it's possible at all. I'd really rather not force myself into a situation where I have to share a PT with someone I can't bring myself to trust and/or I won't be able to work with.

I like to abuse the hell out of neighborhoods and having a bad one is going to give me a negative effect on the game overall, and it's less bad for town if I avoid weighing down someone that otherwise would be better still here than dead over just leaving predance and taking someone who's already likely to be scum with me.

Like I'm not even sure it's possible

[Ankamius]

I guess I'm saying, why not get some flips and at least have a chance to re-evaluate in dance 2?

you could give input, and if you thought you were with scum or the game wouldn't be fun because your partner was lame you could leave the dance*

*note that I do not actually advocate doing this, I simply see it as a better option than refusing to dance in the first place

Because this game is starting to shape up like a weak town game for me and I'm not seeing any way to pull myself away from that

[Ankamius]

Yeah I really need to sleep

[Ankamius]

Always glad to see vedith still stuck in his death tunnel

[Ankamius]

This version of the setup favors scum a lot more than the old one

Yeah it really does

[Ankamius]

That's why it pissed me off to no end that Firebringer rolled the 8 coin lady and pissed it away like he did

There's way too much talk between you and Krazy trying to divert worthless shade towards this situation.
If Krazy was given the 8 coins for example I would think it's on the wrong person. Or dann, bit that wouldn't happen.
Both of you're entire arguments here are leading you to try and push Fire as town and me as Scum and acting like you are worried.
My point is, whoever gets the coin you will never have all town satisfied. You're just unhappy about it because it's not someone you can guilt into siding with you at this stage.

Only part I agree with you 2 is that I shouldn't be voting at all until at a confident stage.

No, the part that I'm most worried about is you randomly voting of whoever the fuck you want and singlehandedly losing town the game.

If you're not going to actually read what we are talking about on favor of taking potshots at me constantly when we have a genuine reason to think that you are an actual threat to town

as either alignment

, then you can frankly shut your mouth or go do something else productive in the thread other than push bullshit on me and meme useless shit all game.

[Ankamius]

So yes, like Alisae said, I'm scum for wanting 5 people to leave predance rather than allowing you to potentially cause a game losing WIFOM bomb when you decide that having the ability to decide a vote by yourself means you should get rid of a most likely TvT pairing.

You've given no indication that you won't do this all game.

[Ankamius]

I think I've mentioned about a half dozen times that I don't have confident reads and I probably won't until I get to analyze the thread more closely this weekend

[Ankamius]

I'm ignoring you for the rest of the game

[Ankamius]

So yes, like Alisae said, I'm scum for wanting 5 people to leave predance rather than allowing you to potentially cause a game losing WIFOM bomb when you decide that having the ability to decide a vote by yourself means you should get rid of a most likely TvT pairing.

You've given no indication that you won't do this all game.

I don't care that Ali thinks you're Scum for that. Alone it's stupid.
But if you believe I would lolhammer why would less people matter right now? I don't understand it.

First dance ends at 12 players

[Ankamius]

First dance ends at 12 players

Okay so what benefit does that give over me getting 1 lollynch (which obviously I wouldn't) and then going to a normal lynch?

Allowing town to have control over the lynches and not showing scum to waste the IC.

[Ankamius]

Allowing town to have control over the lynches and not showing scum to waste the IC.

But we would have the second lynch to see who votes where without coins being in question.
Also we then given Scum the probability to control the 5 town that don't make it. Scum don't get getting through this stage, from what I've experienced and seen at least.

Also, what difference with Scum picking Town!Fire as IC with 2 lynches and without 2? Given that the argument is if I'm Scum then Fire will be made the IC.

Because it doesn't mean anything if he's made IC when you don't lollynch.

[Ankamius]

No, you lollynching someone and fire being made IC would be because your pairing would need to be eliminated because of the sheer amount of WIFOM and damage to the gamestate you would cause.

[Ankamius]

I think I've mentioned about a half dozen times that I don't have confident reads and I probably won't until I get to analyze the thread more closely this weekend

scums are afraid to admit this and publicly announce it

I don't think this is outside of my scumrange

[Ankamius]

I think you are only dangerous while you have 8 votes.

[Ankamius]

I think you are only dangerous while you have 8 votes.

Although I agree and i do see the reason to be cautious, I think it's being pushed too hard for something that anyone can do.
What's to say Allo (A town read of mine) would be any better? He has stated that I'm Scum enough and shown that he wants me out of the game. Would you sit there and let me just say exactly what you're saying and agree with it?
In all honesty, and a yes or no is NAI to me, if I was town reading you would you actually be pushing shade onto it as much as you are now? Reason i said NAI is because I believe it's a survival reaction from either Scum or town.

And even though I can see the threat to someone having 8 coins I see 5 people leaving taking out the view to see if I lollynch and the potential to see other vote patterns if I don't.
At the end we still lose 5 people. Just my way of thinking gives more information as a whole.

Well a lot of it is personality and how you've played the game entirely up to this point. Naturally part of it is also because you're scumreading me but I wouldn't be worried about it regardless if it was in the hands of somebody I was pretty confident would never be rash about it.

[Ankamius]

Nancy what do your reads look like now

[Ankamius]

Ok

What are the optional pairings do you think

[Ankamius]

It's because I'm engaged with the game on a surface level but I don't have the time to go deep analyze the game because my schedule makes it really awkward to.

[Ankamius]

Not the way I do it, no. Trying to do it the way I do it is hideously slow without a desktop and I've had trouble sitting at mine for long enough to get through it enough to have results.