Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Taly]

where my man at

[Taly]

i would like someone who is both active and prompt in a PT, i dont want to be alone this entire game

[Taly]

where my man at

Should I send an offer?

depends

do you think i am town?

[Taly]

First dance will end if there are 12 players or fewer left alive or deadline is reached.

So I'm just rereading the ruleset

uh, do we just do nothing first dance?

Sorry I was about to vomit out some setup stuff that hinged around how much I hate the coins and then I realized simply not lynching anyone was an option.

Or alternatively,

@FakeGod, is No Lynch an option for first dance?

To my understanding:

We

Pre-Dance

until one of two scenarios:

1)

We end deadline.

2)

Everyone has a pair; much to one person's expense based on numbers.

Then we go to

First Dance

, and then it's like Hunger Games Lovers-Version until we're at 12 people, and it's a nightless so we don't transition until multiple pairs are gone.

[Taly]

depends

do you think i am town?

Yes! No one as wonderful as you would ever be scum!
I think we would make a great pair, what's your choice of dance?

you seem confident in this read within the first 3 pages of the game

but im exclusively TxT

im not too sure about you being town, so i cannot give an answer yet

Not everyone, one gent leaves unpaired.

hence the

"much to one's expense"

part

[Taly]

Instead, I think in pre-dance, we should all just pair with people we would like to solve the game with in dance 2. We should not necessarily pair with people we are locktown on, but rather on people we would enjoy sorting in a PT and enjoy solving with if we are still alive in dance 2

If anyone strongly disagrees with this I'd like to hear it because otherwise I would like to offer a dance (rl) today

I mean ladies know how many coins they have yea? Can we just pair town read gents with high coin ladies, or am I missing something?

I like both ideas....

Krazy's

method promotes transparency, and

Dannflor's

idea gives less power to Scum+Wealthy Ladies or Gents+Wealthy Scum

But I'd rather not make quick decisions on who I'm dancing with, and I think seeing everyone in the thread first is the most pragmatic and observant method of making a decision.

[Taly]

Right this is what it *seems like it should be* but this means creating a risk, which may only be like a 20% or lower risk, that the game gets exceptionally stupid

Basically I think overall town chances are stronger if we skip dance 1 and just totally throw the coins mechanic out the window because it exclusively helps scum

what do you mean by

"throw the coins mechanic out the window"

?

[Taly]

nancy

, do you any thoughts on anyone or anything aside from

vedith

?

this is girl talk

[Taly]

Scenario 2 (Probably OK) -- Ignore coins, keep the lynch order unclear, no lynch dance 1, plan to play the game as a mountainous in second dance

Scenario 3 (Maybe better?) -- Ladies with 5+ coins hardclaim coin counts, and we pair the top 4 townread men with them

actually parts of these aren't exclusive

I think we could pair top 4 townread men with top 4 coin ladies, and then we STILL hammer no lynch as soon as dance 1 begins

Dance 1 is just the worst phase for town and we want out of it ASAP

are we able to

"No Lynch"

and go to Second Dance without lynching anyone?

@Fakegod, I want you to confirm this.

[Taly]

oh, overlooked that mod answer

mmm....

Krazy's

strategy sounds good in theory

>

High coin ladies claim to AVOID any scum-gents lying and vote/hammering in First Dance anyway.

>

Getting rid of the "coin mechanic" by going directly to Second Dance without lynch

helps town in multiple ways

:
- Numerically, more town are likely to stay alive
-

Second Dance BEGINS with an IC being made

- to my understanding - so that actually serves to validate people's reads to an extent from Pre-Dance.

>

Getting rid of the "coin mechanic" by going directly to Second Dance without lynch

hurts scum in multiple ways

:
- Scum can't use ANY knowledge of their coins/partner's coins to position a mislynch on someone
- Restricts their options for potential NK, especially if mutually thought townpairs are created

i think a group consenus should be made for pairs, but i dont think forcing someone to pair with another person they scumread is wise

i like this idea a lot, but we need a consenus on everyone committing to this plan or we can't do it

and ANYONE who disagrees with this strategy, should elaborate on their thoughts of it.

[Taly]

OK at the moment, i have no concerns with the strategy-proposed by

Krazy

[Taly]

I'm pretty sure there can be more than one lynch per day

yeah, cant there be more than one lynch in First Dance?

~

anyway

im going to do math homework and pray to god i make at least a B on my Chem Level 2 test tomorrow...

ill be on later tonight, probably

[Taly]

im feeling better about

vedith

at the moemnt

ank

, can you outline your thoughts specifically on

krazy's

plan being an idea that comes from scum?

allo

is my only scumread at the moment, im looking at

nancy

and

dann

for sorting

+1 to

fire/ali/ank

but still thinking here

[Taly]

im feeling better about

vedith

at the moemnt

ank

, can you outline your thoughts specifically on

krazy's

plan being an idea that comes from scum?

allo

is my only scumread at the moment, im looking at

nancy

and

dann

for sorting

+1 to

fire/ali/ank

but still thinking here

Because he didn’t state a reason for his Vedith scumread?

Because

Allo's

been both flippant and non-concrete in his posts so far.

The unexplained vote tier; with

FakeGod

as a read and

Dann

without really engaging with him at all

The non-committal

Vedith

is scummy thought that was practically a sheeped read since Page 1

I don't get his plan about

"lynching some and then seeing what happens"

for First Dance WITH Lady's claiming coin value... that just sounds like telling scum how to position themselves in the game

ISOing him, it doesn't read as town.

What are your thoughts on

Vedith

and anyone stating that he isn't scum?

[Taly]

im going back and forth between whats optimal strategy

and it seems to be more of a distraction at this point

[Taly]

Why not Taly? He seemed pretty damned townie to me?

ISO is surface level fine, but it's mostly just repeating and restating stuff that has already been said and asking some empty questions.

point to me whats empty

~

also the big read influx makes me happy but makes me question my original thoughts on the game

krazy

seemed very town to me as i thought, he was evaluating multiple situations and each were entertaining a cohesive town game

i feel like the point

ank

brought up about scum getting an NK without anyone of them getting lynched is a good one, but i want

krazy

to follow-up on her thoughts on that, and say something beyond setup mechanics

[Taly]

I think Taly tries harder to obvtown as scum in this situation

I don't think it's likely he's scum here

Taly seems nothing here, like he was in Labrynth.

why are you asserting a meta scumread on me when you havent really repsonded to my latest explanation to you? about my

allo

scumread and your other reads

also, i dont get

pink balls

consistent mindmeld with you here

[Taly]

yeah your read doesnt seem justified at all

[Taly]

OK... I'm mentally waking up a little bit.

Does anyone have questions for me? That helps

Ank

, was there any benefit that you saw in claiming coin value in your previous game of this?

[Taly]

Jokes about scumreading the mod are pretty common. I don't see how you think that's a scum move.

Is this the only point I make about you that is worth commenting on?

How about you explain your

Dann/Vedith

read.

Ank, was there any benefit that you saw in claiming coin value in your previous game of this?

Is there benefit in not claiming coin value?

I'm worried that scum would want to pocket or buddy high-value lady's.

[Taly]

im heading out right now

[Taly]

It's hard to sort or know where to start with 22 pages of mostly fluff

I'm reevaluating all my thoughts on the game and I'll get back with a reada list tonight or tomorrow

I'm phoneposting right now

[Taly]

Can people please give this thread a break a little?

+500 posts in about 5 hours is overkill

[Taly]

I'm confident we can burn 20 out of these 23 pages and not be any closer to finding game picks and scum

This is only benefitting scum

[Taly]

Shit. I saw I misread Nancy's stance. Sorry.

Making a mental note for when I reevaluate. I need distance from the thread now.

[Taly]

Final post

Nancy don't be hard on yourself. It's a game but I respect if you're not in the mind to do this. If you want to continue or think you might want to, then take a mental breath.

If you're still here later I'd like to speak with you.

[Taly]

All the posts justifying a

Nancy

scumread since my last post has deeply pinged me.

Krazy

is one of very few people making sense right now.

I have an exam tomorrow, so I'll reconnect later... I somewhat regret peeking back at the thread so quickly.

But I did because I have very little trust in town's ability to be rational as of my impression over these last... less than 12 hours.

[Taly]

RC/Krazy

seem like very good lover options to me right now.

actually... the ONLY good lover options right now.

also, my hard defense button has been pushed for

nancy

[Taly]

<3 as long as you love me outside of game

rc

? <3

but yeah, i see the value in waiting on a partner... but i dont think really anythings been accomplished since people stopped focusing on getting a partner....

[Taly]

I have a lot of townreads

Feelsgoodman

+10

[Taly]

Okay I think Nancy's replacement is more likely to come from scum than town. Hear me out on this.
So I come from a heavy background of face-to-face mafia. And when I play that, if I'm town and someone accuses me of being mafia, my attitude is more "I'm not mafia, so I can prove this." I don't really get frustrated, maybe a bit annoyed, but not frustrated. But when I'm scum and someone accuses me, I'm more like, "oh shit, they figured me out, I might as well give up now" and then I get frustrated with the game because it seems hopeless.
That being said, Nancy's attitude about replacement obviously falls into the latter category, which leads me to believe she's scum. A town person I don't think would get quite as frustrated; they would be more willing to prove that they're town.

1)

You're comparing forum mafia to face-to-face mafia...
Your argument here is already fragile.

2)

You stating "town would be more willing to prove they're town" is both false and ignores people's individual playstyle.

3)

Why are you continuing the

"

Nancy

is scum"

narrative and not talking about potential partners right now?

[Taly]

FB

, do you have ANY thoughts on the game aside from

Nancy

scum?

I'd also like you to be more clear on your scumread there since you're so confident.

[Taly]

KRAZY ALLOWMANSTER and FREEBRANGER are TOWN-TOWN IN MY MIND AND HEART

Explain this, and find better material than

Nancy

[Taly]

Taly i am 10 seconds away from throwing a bitch fit just because of the tone of that post makes me look like i have no other thoughts.

Sorry, that might've sounded harsher.

But I'm not seeing many posts about you that don't revolve around

Nancy

, and I'd like that dispelled.

You don't need to throw a fit.

Taly, do you have to bold player names? It's kind of jarring and makes it harder to read your posts fluently.

Bolding names helps me organize my posts, and its for my understanding.

If it's such a problem then I suggest quoting me and unbolding it.

I don't how many times people poke at how I bold things as an excuse NOT to engage with me...

[Taly]

Taly coming in hot.

pedit noo why are we fighting

How about you fan the flames more and actually ask me a question?

If I - alongside a third of the playerlist is a nullread to you - it might be a good idea to do something about it.

[Taly]

FB

, I'm trying to minimize frustration and upset.

I want us to speak without annoyance and with full transparency.

[Taly]

RC why is Nancy town?

Why is

Nancy

scum again?

I was too busy noticing the quick, several-person strong push on her to remember why it was valid?

I'm floored if everyone who has spoken about a scumread on

Nancy

is town.

The whole topic and last 10 pages are a bullshit red herring from actually having contructive dialogue for town.

Do you have other reads

Ank

?

You said

Dann

and

Krazy

are scum, so has anything changed? Why?

[Taly]

RC

read

Nancy's

ISO and get back to me.

I'd like your thoughts on other parts of the game.

Taly coming in hot.

pedit noo why are we fighting

How about you fan the flames more and actually ask me a question?

If I - alongside a third of the playerlist is a nullread to you - it might be a good idea to do something about it.

I appreciate the intentions, but the form certainly has room for improvement. I'll see what I can ask of you in a bit.

Interaction's good, but preferably we keep it civil/less emotional, is all I'm trying to imply.

Exactly....

...I guess I can come off as intimidating when I try... but that's not my intention.

We're taking the heat off of Nancy because why?

The scumread push on her feels disproportionate to her actions, and not very well-reasoned.

[Taly]

I'll ISO

Nancy

when I do my reevaluation.

But I want a town-productive narrative before I sign off tonight so I can feel better.

Namely, I didn't want to sign on tomorrow and see the same bickering happen again that's made reading difficult.

I'm going to bed, but I want my questions and prompts addressed.

[Taly]

gamma

, I'm not ignoring you. I want to get to you tomorrow.

I like some of the points you're making.

night fam

[Taly]

There is no consensus to be made since I havent entered the thread

*looks at the thread, sees +10 more pages to read out the ass*

*softly begins to cry... as I'm about to take a Chemistry Level 2 Exam which I've been studying for for 3+ hours...*

[Taly]

A www Krazy asked me to the dance <3

I'll reply when I get ono tonight

I hope people don't forget about me >: I'm a busy college student but I really want to plaaaaaay

[Taly]

*shrug*

My beak is awesome though c;

Overnight Read Shifts
>Less sure about Ank and want to sort her
>I like Dann more but I want to know why he town reads me got explaining reads. What's worthy about my explanations?
>Need to sort Vedith

Allo is still only confident scum read but I haven't critically read the past 15 pages of game yet.

Krazy seems to be a good partner fit and someone I town read but I want a more clear head and more time on my hands than now before I make any decisions

[Taly]

I'm actively trying to be more calm and slightly less aggressive in mafia

I see more when I talk less.

I read better when I 1v1 less.

[Taly]

Ugh please pray for me on this exam

CHEMISTRY Level 2 makes Level 1 look like a fucking high school remedial class

[Taly]

*im speaking to multiple people here in this post... so if you people dont learn how to LOCK UP your post count, im likely to overlook an answer but ill fix it if i do*

ank

, I'm not feeling convinced with meta reads... can you give an in-game specific example of

nancy

-scum? or of any reads that you're using meta to discern? because im not feeling them from what ive read

~

I'm fine giving

FB

space if it helps clear his head... I haven't meant anything ill in my interactions, but perhaps talking won't enlighten either of us at the moment.

I think he's closer to town though... His intensity seems very hard to fake as scum, and more along his personality.

I don't think the lack of cohesion between our reads are AI.

~

895

@Allo

It's funny that you say

Pink's

reads are incredibly bad... yet you haven't really elaborated much on yours since 159

Also; I don't know why you're injecting yourself into my question toward

Dr. Worm

in 740 when I posed a question to him about

his reads.

But since you want to talk about yours, how about you go in depth on your

Krazy

null-read? He's been very active, so I don't know why you're on the fence with him.

One final thing... My questions and assessments in 726 and 314 were not rhetorical... While you

have

'replied' to them, I don't think you've really addressed any of their points.

~

I don't know what to think about

Dr. Worm

at the moment, but I'm not seeing much sincerity with them.

~

hi

vedith

, I don't fully vibe with your reads.

Why is

Allo

town,

Ank

scum and

Nancy

town in your eyes?

(I mean, I vibe with

Nancy

read, but I want to know your line of thinking on that.)

[Taly]

I like

Dann's

reply to my earlier question... it tells me he's thinking under the surface level unlike 5+ people in this game.

And that he's not regurgitating a non-committal scumread/nullread on me without much justification.

[Taly]

ugh... the yappers are in the thread

hopefully my posts get read...

His intensity seems very hard to fake as scum, and more along his personality.

I am an intense person mr taly. Ask anyone in my family.

I actually am too.

But I also have a switch to subtlety too.

[Taly]

@Mod, are Lover PTs created immediately upon accepting a dance? Or at the end of Pre-Dance?

[Taly]

Following along from that logic, I would like to dance with Taly.

I think this is a good pairing for the following reasons:
-I like Taly and think I would work well with him
-I think that if I can solidify my townread in the PT in dance 1 and if we are still alive in dance 2, we can work well in solving the game
-We are not both universally townread so if scum opted to kill us, they would be providing useful information for the town

Since the logic of "let's fuck around with claiming coins" no longer really has a lot of merit given firebringer/vedith pairing and the risks that imposes, I'm going to submit the request. Taly can consider at her leisure if she would like to accept it, when she wakes up.

yeah. i pretty much agree on all these points.

with your strategizing at the beginning of the game, i trust that you wont do random stupid shit randomly with a vote, and that you'll value my opinion.

i want mod to answer my question before i think further

[Taly]

It's funny that you say Pink's reads are incredibly bad... yet you haven't really elaborated much on yours since 159

The reads are bad because they are dumb reads, not because they have dumb reasoning. I couldn't care less about the reasoning. Also if you expect me to explain my reads you're in for a long game.

Also; I don't know why you're injecting yourself into my question toward Dr. Worm in 740 when I posed a question to him about his reads.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize we can't post reads and comment on other conversations. I was under the impression this thread was for the benefit of the entire town, but I guess I was wrong.

But since you want to talk about yours, how about you go in depth on your Krazy null-read? He's been very active, so I don't know why you're on the fence with him.

I don't really know how to sort him; now that you say this, I'll go check his ISO again and form a read. Also 740 was quite a bit ago.

One final thing... My questions and assessments in 726 and 314 were not rhetorical... While you have 'replied' to them, I don't think you've really addressed any of their points.

314 was toward Nancy, not me. According to your own logic I shouldn't be inserting myself there. I'll go check 726 again, I must've missed it originally. We are all human.

1)

...So...

Pink's

reads are bad because they're dumb and you don't agree with them? That's the logic I'm getting here, since you just refused to explain your own, as

Pink

hadn't done so.

2)

Never said you couldn't respond to my questions... Just don't know why you were replying to my

Dr. Worm

question and not the posts I've made explicitly about you.

3)

I'll wait for the ISO on

Krazy

then. Since I have several strong reasons to rationalize that he's town.

4)

Yeah... 314 was toward

Nancy

and not you, but:

A)

It was about you.

B)

You replied to only one minor point about it in 387... so you must've deemed it relevant enough to respond to it in the first place.

p-edited by Allomancer's 1128

Eh... I'm not convinced by your

nancy

scumread then, and I feel confident in her town.

It's not perfectly logical to think

"all town should be willing to prove they're town"

if that's not realistic on how people play...

What strategy are people ignoring? Everyone is giving reads and updating them as the game continues, and only ONE match has been made yet. So I don't see a cause for concern right now.

[Taly]

Taly I'm seeing one of the primary town markers I see now so I'm at the point where I'm just going to put her in her own category and never revisit it again because it's really a lot more trouble than it's worth this game

Egh... What is this town marker and why is it so much of a problem to revisit me?

I don't like being shelved.

End of predance, Taly

ty <3

also, did you respond to my in 1108? If you have... I might've overlooked over the constant bullshit convo in the thread.

[Taly]

Is it wise to pair now? hmmmm...

though

Krazy

is still my best lover option, even as ive formed a read over half of the people in the game.



what is a lady to do?

[Taly]

nancy

im up for girl talk



even tho there is a good chance im going to sign off in 5 minutes

[Taly]

oh that makes sense

why are you shelving

nancy

? and why is it a problem to revisit them?

[Taly]

@Nancy

RC

and

Dann

are the only 2 people I'd entertain accepting right now

but I think my most optimal choice is

Krazy

, and... I'm literally about to accept it, but I'm gun-shy.

I'll probably get over it, but my gut is telling me to self-preserve at the moment, yet there's no logical reason to do so it seems.

Because there's really no point in pushing her regardless of her alignment, that's going to do more to derail the game than anything else

who else has your attention the most right now?

[Taly]

lets start with

Krazy

them, because I have several reasons to think he's town and I'm legit ready to pair with him.

[Taly]

I'm confident you're town

Nancy

, pair with people you can both work well with and believe are town.

lets start with

Krazy

them, because I have several reasons to think he's town and I'm legit ready to pair with him.

Tbh I kinda don't like he approached the game with how much he has pushed for weird actions without really hunting beyond that

But setup speccers I can't generally read so

Yeah, I don't see many reads with

Krazy

, but I think his specc'ing is more town... he's not too forceful and he's thinking of every possibility while trying to get input and he's adapting to the town environment.

Honestly, I feel like scum setup specc'ing would either be less conclusive or stick to a certain narrative.

[Taly]

Krazy

, can you give me some reads, please?

I need to know where you're head is at outside of setup discussion.

Nancy

/

Ank

/

Allo

/

FB

/

Dann

/

RC

/

Gamma

- just to throw some names out there.

What strategy are people ignoring? Everyone is giving reads and updating them as the game continues, and only ONE match has been made yet. So I don't see a cause for concern right now.

yes, but plenty of other people have been asking ladies to dance or are already planning who they want to pair with

Nothing about this seems troublesome, more like gamesolving.

*shrugs*

[Taly]

lets start with

Krazy

them, because I have several reasons to think he's town and I'm legit ready to pair with him.

Do it! You're both town

i enjoy the support <3 but would you want to explain some of your strong reads in this game? you seem to have a lot of opinions and hollistically it seems unique and genuine, but im curious on your line of thinking

We don’t have to LISTEN to his posts.

His posts are so loud, I can literally hear them.

If Taly is going with Krazy, I'll probably ask Pink Ball in a couple days or so

I'm also feeling better about Nancy and feel like she'll also be a lot easier to sort and sort with in a PT

My lowest lady read is TheBrie at a solid null, but those are the two I could probably be most productive/gel with. Maybe Gamma, but I don't know that she'd consider me.

I think a Krazy/Taly pair is pretty obv town pair imo. There was a lot of set up spec but that play + all the play outside of that has been geared towards solving the game in a genuine way. I don't think scum puts that much thought into things, either because they don't want to be seen as trying too hard and because that sort of analysis is inherently helpful to town.

im townreading you and townleaning

Pink

, so +1, and i hope some town gents step up and see

Nancy

-town...

thebrie

is jsut there atm... and

gamma

seems nice from what ive read.

[Taly]

Hidden alts are fucking toxic

I'm a hidden alt and I don't think I'm toxic. I'm adorable

This makes me feel better... Since you show experience beyond your joindate.

[Taly]

im just going to quote this so it'd be easier to reply to when i give a direct answer.

i think planning some pairs between town might be helpful nancy? but im liking some of the pair ideas proposed in the last half page outside of me thinking of going with Krazy

im signing off but id like you to just give some reads/thoughts beyond setup discussion Krazy, or just revise any read/points that ive missed <3

∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ Lady Taly, you are hereby cordially invited to dance with me at the three hundred and fifty-nineth annual sultan's dance ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾

[Taly]

just a peek-in post

My biggest fear about waiting until the end of Pre-Dance to get pairs going is that it makes interactions and pairings seem more mechanical, and conversely, more able to be manipulated.

I'm selective of who I want to pair with, and I have just as few options to mirror that.

Question to ANYONE who'd rather wait more for pairings:

if we're not going through a defined plan for First Dance or coin usage or how we lynch, then what is the benefit of waiting to create pairs?

Creating a townbloc feels like messy NK bait, so the only positive I'm seeing to using up our 6 days, is so everyone can have a fair chance to read the game and make up their mind.

But I'm more inclined to think that waiting is only going to muddy the waters more for people who feel confident or clear in their view of the game.

[Taly]

:/ I'm not lolpartnering...

[Taly]

Explain why, as I've wanted to hear your read on them for a good while now...

[Taly]

Specifically, the fact that he reached out to you at all is pinging me.

Is there something scummy about thinking I'm a good partner? Am I missing something?

[Taly]

I need to see and engage with you more

Doubting

I'm not getting your reads on

Dr. W

and

Allo

? Both people I'm suspecting at the moment?

Also I'm still confident with

Nancy

being town.

Do you have any questions for me?

[Taly]

[Taly]

fmyutdhergw534qr4gwhtdrgsew

[Taly]

i think i need some help gamesolving or i need to take the night off

im becoming afraid ive townread someone too quickly, and i dont get the townreads on people im suspecting atm

im really trying not to waffle anywhere.

[Taly]

Who did you townread “too quickly” and who are you “suspecting”, that is being townread?

Maybe

Krazy

I've been too quick to townread? But I'm not convinced by the stated scumpoints on them?

Still not getting the

Allo

or

Dr. W

townreads/leans

I want the

Urist

reads explained a bit more, and I don't get the scumreads on

Dann

either.

Ved

hasn't really responded to my prompts on them, and I'm trying to figure out their line of thinking in the game.

[Taly]

cohesion with reads is really not there right now

[Taly]

1108, bottom bit

@ved

[Taly]

Oh thanks I ISOed you and looked.

I'm signing off tonight, and I'll put forth an actual readslist for MY SAKE tomorrow. (may not have everyone or be deeply reasoned but still)

[Taly]

Maybe Krazy I've been too quick to townread? But I'm not convinced by the stated scumpoints on them?

This sentiment is a large part of why I want to dance with you and why I think we'd be a good pair

cohesion with reads is really not there right now

talk to me

Why is my sentiment a reason you want to dance with me? And think that we mesh well?

The cohesion I'm meaning is that the people I'm reading as town (or town-leaning) are scumreading each other, and vice versa for scum.

And then there's multiple players close in the middle that I'm about to give a very critical eye to.

I'm going to start building a readslist to organize my thoughts and be 100% coherent; but I want you to respond to my question above first.

[Taly]

This has officially bypassed what I'm capable of catching up with, go guys

Let's start with anything in this game that has caught your attention or gave you a comment you think is worth noting.

Hell, it could be on this page.

[Taly]

Sigh.

I really don't want to have this Nancy Drew scumread that I have.

Decided to ISO Moment because I remember 0 of their posts and I'm interested in this one. Why?

I'd like

Moment

to catch-up and focus more on recent posts, but I can understand why they're going about this chronologically...

This thread is a shitshow to filter at this moment and I'm skimming parts of it.

[Taly]

So yeah

I am starting to think it's better to have 2 ladies sit out than to deal with risking vedith being scum or a yolobomber

It cuts the first dance still, but it is a lot less risk and it's easier to plan around than just no lynching and trying to solve the game with the 4 extra players since we can force a large group of scummy and useless players to leave

Just read this through skimming

Giving this a very hard no.

This is a beneficial plan to scum on multiple levels, and I don't know how having multiple people die Pre-Dance connects to

Vedith's

voting accountability?

If it did, then why is

Vedith

a strong scumread for you? Otherwise, I don't understand the point of mentioning this.

1803

Ank

, if you're unable to articulate reads and analyze until this weekend, why are you posting?

It makes any apathy you've stated to have seem forced. 1166

*Waiting until tonight to see if Krazy will respond to my latest quote/question to him, and then I'll form readslist. I've already began organizing thoughts on some players and I plan to do more ISOs.*

[Taly]

...I'm a bit confident that, if you spent as much time analyzing than continually having conversations with 5-6 people, you'd have more concise content to show.

[Taly]

At the moment, it looks like you're putting more emphasis on convincing people of your viewpoints rather than assessing the validity and reasons behind them.

1)

Are you going to reply to my response to your 1729?

2)

Do you have reads on more than 4 people?

3)

Is there anyone you think is a good option to pair with yourself? Even if it's just a small gut thought?

[Taly]

Ok

What are the optional pairings do you think

For me: Dann/Krazy/RC would be ideal, maybe Urist, if he becomes townier?

I think whichever 3 of those I don’t partner with, should ideally go to you, Taly, PB or Alisae.

Ank

is a lady and couldn't pair with

PB, Ali

or myself.

Plus,

Ank

is not nearly as high on my town list as she is with you; so can you explain your read there?

[Taly]

upon some thought and reflection

I trust

Vedith

with 8 votes more than half of the other gents.

p-edit

Why is my sentiment a reason you want to dance with me? And think that we mesh well?

I don't feel like you are attempting to pocket me at this point; you feel like you are more interested in sorting me correctly.

Haven't caught up in this thread yet

Ironically enough... This response makes me think you're trying to sort me correctly and not pocket me Alongside your

"I didn't expect

Taly

to immediately accept"

or you said a phrase similar to this when I skimmed.

~

I haven't declined your dance proposal, but I've thought about waiting until tomorrow or Sunday to give an answer; as people are holding off until then, and I want people to at least be on the same page but still NOT waiting for the last minute/last 2 days.

Reminder that deadline is February 14th to my understanding.

[Taly]

No, no, you misunderstood my post. I wasn’t suggesting that Ank, you, PB and Ali pair up.

I was saying that whomever of Dann/Krazy/RC/DT/Urist I don’t pair up with. IOW, I think that these are probably the best gents for me and my townreads to pair up with atm. I’m actually more null on Moment rn but I just had other people higher than her, on my list.

It’s a tonal thing with Ank. She comes off as very sincere to me but unless you were more familiar with her meta, you probably wouldn’t see it.

still not feeling the confident

Ank

townread but I can see where you're coming from.

:/ I'm still a little paranoid about being pocketed or manipulated...

Ank

telling me

Krazy

was not a good pair and strengthening her scumread there while

DoubtingThomas

asked me to dance did not give me a good feeling.

Mostly because of the timing there, though, not because of my read on either of them prior. 1254 1260 and 1261

But that's why I shut down a little around 1443 and 1448

x-x All of my ended games from 2018 to 2019 have told me I'm... a bit easy to pocket or I townread someone too quickly.

It's why I'd much rather NOT claim my coin value right now, as I want people to partner with me if, and only if, they actually want to work with me.

[Taly]

Take your time... we'll see if my heart can wait that long

<3 <3

[Taly]

non-game fun post

nancy

this game so far has made me want to hydra with you more lol <3

Mechanically I think pairing Drew is optimal rn

<3 as long as our hearts are still merged

[Taly]

PB

, humor me, who is my best match?

[Taly]

lol it is mathematically guaranteed that scum is townreading me at this point

*carries on with readslist*

but yeah

PB

, could you answer my prompt to you in my last post soon? ty

p-edit

oh, ty

PB

*carries on with readslist again*

im gonna stfu until its posted, or unless someone directly squares up to me

i plan to have it sent tonight, tomorrow morning at very most. i dont like to have my audience wait.

[Taly]

ugh.... just finished categorizing reads

i already dont like them on a broad level but its where im at rn.

[Taly]

i really wanted to post my readslist tonight, but its 9:30 and id rather not continue thinking about mafia this late or else im not going to sleep or focus on "night taly me-time"

so im going to unplug.

but i will definitely have my readslist out ASAP tomorrow, since ive begun listing my reasons for my reads, and my fresh brain notes have been taken.

the above sentence probably made no sense but its not a college night, but i do want to lightly check my math notes before i relax so will post tomorrow <3

[Taly]

plus, if i dont get my beauty sleep, the reasons behind my reads will be worded incoherently



it takes rest to be so articulate.

[Taly]

fuck, there's a really good chance that I'm townreading a scum-person while they're townreading me at the same time.

I had 3 scumreads.

(Alisae, Allo, Dr. W)

But

S_S

makes a point in 2103 that would be disadvantageous to scum... Reads, in most cases in mafia, help the scumteam maneuver the game, and townreads WOULD give scum an idea who to IC.

I think... I'm going to make my readslist more vague in terms of read category's, since I doubt I'm correct with everyone.

And when I post it - list my

volatile

reads. Reads that are either not very confident, or can be shifted by a few responses.

~

I'd like people to explain their townread on me more.

[Taly]

This is why I wish I lurked more D1 lol

[Taly]

Allo

, there are multiple people you've said you want to partner with but they wouldn't accept

Why haven't you tried to mend that? And in the same breath, why are you wanting to wait close to deadline before pairs occur?

[Taly]

S_S

do you have a read on

Allo

or could you look at him? Since you'd have a less biased eye, being a replace-in.

[Taly]

Phonepost

Meh S_S felt dodgy with his reply, referring to only Allo's posts since he replaced in... I'm not convinced of him either way yet and I'd like to see the rationale for him to be town there.

RC, why do you think I'd be a good partner choice?

[Taly]

I think if you pair with Taly over me, the chances of that happening increase exponentially.

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

Literally this is the one thing I was trying to avoid lol... cue paranoia.

Why am I town again?

[Taly]

I'm still open to RC as a partner.

This is NOT taking away from my reads on Nancy or Krazy though

Also what does WIM mean?

>Vedith, why haven't you asserted your scumread on me?

[Taly]

I want to pour gasoline on these last 5 pages and light a fucking match

I'm cringing so hard and my phone is almost dead so I can't articulate right now

[Taly]

I'll reply when I get home but ugghhghghghhhhhhhhh

[Taly]

My percentage of chill is the same as my phone battery

3%

[Taly]

did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

[Taly]

I was literally going to list the points of an

RC+I

partner pros/cons but that's not happening.

And that pairing is stupid enough to be town/town.

p-edit

yes I'm home

Krazy

, and I haven't even gotten to the quotes I want to reply to yet.

[Taly]

did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

So you're pairing with someone to prove a point rather than your read and cohesion with them as a partner?

That's not good either.

[Taly]

did

RC/Ank

literally pair just so they can fucking murder/suicide at First Dance?

what the fuck....

Tbh I wasn't specifically planning to suicide before second dance, I mostly wanted RC to take accountability for his stances

So you're pairing with someone to prove a point rather than your read and cohesion with them as a partner?

That's not good either.

Well obviously I don't want RC to endgame either

IF YOU'RE TOWN YOUR DEATH IS NOT HELPING US EITHER

[Taly]

THIS IS BULLSHIT

[Taly]

ok rage is subsiding.

If you townread me in the first place, then RC tunneling me is not exactly good for town either, Taly.

You keep making the assumption that one of you MUST be scum, which I both don't agree with, and don't understand the town-produtive motivation here.

[Taly]

Like I think people are forgetting that RC literally said that he would specifically look to get me lynched once the dance starts, and yet there is enough support for me to get a relatively town partner that having that go down would be even worse than both of us dying at the start of first dance.

What part of this is specific to

RC's scumrange

?

To an extent, you're letting your pre-game disconnect muddle your thinking, and I think my indignation is pretty well-justified.

[Taly]

This spat is useless. The pairing's already been made, and I need to focus back on what I wanted to respond to hours ago.

[Taly]

If anyone feels pessimistic about the game, then they should probably give it a break, otherwise they're just mixing emotionally counterproductive thoughts into the game narrative.

Like I think people are forgetting that RC literally said that he would specifically look to get me lynched once the dance starts, and yet there is enough support for me to get a relatively town partner that having that go down would be even worse than both of us dying at the start of first dance.

What part of this is specific to

RC's scumrange

?

To an extent, you're letting your pre-game disconnect muddle your thinking, and I think my indignation is pretty well-justified.

???

Do you think my reasoning is inherently wrong?

Your reasons are valid, but I don't see why you're pairing with

RC

if you're entertaining leaving in the first place?

And if I'm wrong here, then your reasons for your scumread(or read at all) on RC and the reason you paired with him are both unclear to me.

IF WE ARE BOTH TOWN

THEN US NOT PAIRING TOGETHER IS ALSO BAD FOR THE GAME

So... You don't actually have a definite read on

RC

?

This is a yes or no question.

[Taly]

So... You don't actually have a definite read on

RC

?

This is a yes or no question.

Not now, no

I thought RCs reentrance into the game today was incredibly scummy, the pairing and post-pairing content is just pushing it more towards the null line.

Then I'm at a loss at trying to understand your read progression on him, but focusing on this now isn't helpful because you and

RC

are NO longer partner opportunities even WHEN both of you haven't FULLY analyzed and made a stance in this game.

I need a break from this conversation and I need to respond to other posts here, and finally pump out a readslist so I can have a shred of coherency.

[Taly]

Nancy

, say something positive or game-advancing and people will be more apt to listen.

Not that you're not doing this - but when you post something like

"this game is lost"

then it's a disconnect and a source for people to think you're producing a scum narrative.

[Taly]

RC/Ank

can be town/town...

I actually had a good reason to think

RC

was town and debated offering him a dance tomorrow or later had

Krazy

gone with someone like

Nancy

.

Ank

no longer makes sense as scum or town to me; but I think only town would make me feel this way.

[Taly]

RC

and I have a lot of experience together and I just wanted to see if partnering with him would be optimal here.

like

sorry for creating this situation and pissing a lot of you off

but I don't regret this, I think that it's better to have the damage be isolated to pre-dance rather than take over first dance.

eh. I could've reacted better. I see your stance. I have reason to think you're both town, even though I don't really like either of your approaches here.

[Taly]

I think if you pair with Taly over me, the chances of that happening increase exponentially.

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

Literally this is the one thing I was trying to avoid lol... cue paranoia.

Why am I town again?

No one appears to scumread you so far. Nothing you have said has even remotely pinged me. I’m not sure why you’d be paranoid about

my

townreading you, in particular?

And you know I can’t elaborate on that.

It's not your townread in particular, it's the universal townread.

This is a game where pocketing - more than usual - a viable strategy. If I'm being townread without much stated reason OR protest, this tells me multiple things:

1)

Scum know exactly what they want to do with me... Either IC me, NK me, or keep me alive to generate suspicion or WIFOM.

2)

I lose the ability to filter out people's reads and motives since everyone sees me in the same manner, that is - if they don't reason their townread on me.

3)

I become neutralized and predictable - with it being increasingly difficult for me to tell if I'm being pocketed or sweet talked....

...which is very possible, since I've had at least 1 game experience with half the playerlist here.

Taly what are your thoughts on Dannflor?

Spoiler: Here Is What I've Written On My Readslist About Him

Dannflor *Volatile*

+

Read progression is very natural with

me/Urist

, as he's shifted his thoughts without letting a disagreement or opinion influence them.

+

Reevaluating thoughts and continually putting forth more thinking on both reads, pair ideas, and setup without unnecessary guard.

+

Engaging with a lot of people and not sticking to a certain topic or niche in the game

+

I don't have strong reasons for this townread, but nothing has struck out to me as scum

Dann

is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

I probably forgot to note anything else, but he's in the

"Town To Some Degree"

category, and while not my first partner pick, I guess he's an option?

Nancy with Krazy and Taly with PvtUrist is pretty good

Why

Me+PvtUrist

? And

Krazy+Nancy

, if you thought

Krazy

was my best option?

Dann/Taly is a locktown pairing I think

We just need to decide on one more

Can you tell me how

Dann

is locktown from your perspective?

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Can you stop pretending that the last 100 pages don't exist? It reads as very disingenuous, and if you're not understanding people's viewpoint of me now, then how about you ask questions or ISO?

Dann / x
x / Taly
Firebringer / Vedith
ND / Krazy?

Need to fill in those xs

I'm lonely D:

What don't you like about them Taly?

I don't know what prompted people's changes in ideal pairings? I don't disagree? But I don't know what happened?

I'm still considering you as a partner?

[Taly]

It's not your townread in particular, it's the universal townread.

This is a game where pocketing - more than usual - a viable strategy. If I'm being townread without much stated reason OR protest, this tells me multiple things:

1) Scum know exactly what they want to do with me... Either IC me, NK me, or keep me alive to generate suspicion or WIFOM.
2) I lose the ability to filter out people's reads and motives since everyone sees me in the same manner, that is - if they don't reason their townread on me.
3) I become neutralized and predictable - with it being increasingly difficult for me to tell if I'm being pocketed or sweet talked....

...which is very possible, since I've had at least 1 game experience with half the playerlist here.

To note; I'm happy with the townreads??? As long as I understand them... and can tell if they're genuinely guessed or disingenuously informed.

[Taly]

If people who had no meta with me, townlocked me, I’d probably be wondering as well.

This is a good thing to watch over that I didn't initially think about.

[Taly]

Can you stop pretending that the last 100 pages don't exist? It reads as very disingenuous, and if you're not understanding people's viewpoint of me now, then how about you ask questions or ISO?

Why does it read as disingenuous? That statement was a compliment to your scumgame... I don't think you're as easy to read as you seem.

I don't think I am easy to read per se; but if you're going to make statements about reads and people's reads on me or someone else, then you should present your thoughts as to why and not pretense it with

"I only have X amount of knowledge on this game"

Otherwise, it can be interpreted as you pushing an agenda.

But... thanks I don't think I'm top-tier scum, though.

If I were scum in this position; I'd be dancing, singing, and doing motherfucking cartwheels too much so to read the thread.

And that's why I don't trust many people's perception in this game, even if I townread them.

[Taly]

I think you're the type that's not too difficult to detect for someone who knows what to look for, Taly

Eh... This is more true than not.

the worst

would beg to differ, I think.

but yeah... back to game and burn meta-talk for the moment.

[Taly]

So how's the reads list coming?

Perfect timing. I was about to mention this.

I think my approach to this game has been... not the best.

I don't need an elaborate readslist noting all of my significant thoughts of people. I think that's tmi

pre-2nd Dance

, and especially

pre-1st Dance

. It's also a distraction, since a lot of people are talking in circles who - for the most part - mutually townread each other.

So I'm going to focus on the

unpaired Gents

and think more critically about a partner, since I'm devoting my energy to reads on THEM.

{PvtUrist, Krazy, Moment, Allomancer, Dannflor, DoubtingThomas, Dr. Worm}

~ I'll freely give reads on these people, and I'm actively working to sort them.

However; I did promise transparency with my reads. So here are the people I'm either scumreading or still sorting in no order:

{PvtUrist, DoubtingThomas, Gamma Emerald, TheBrie, Moment, Something_Smart, Dr. Worm, Allomancer}

~ I wish I had a lower list of

"sort or scum"

... but I'm good on my other townreads.

Everyone else is a townread to some degree, and I hope they get partners. Luckily, 4 of them have.

Now, where do I begin?

{PvtUrist, Moment, Allomancer, DoubtingThomas, Dr. Worm}

These are both unpaired gents, and not confidently town to me - or I do/did scumread them to some extent.

But what are the people I want to partner with?

{Krazy, Dannflor}

This list can increase, but;

~ I want to make a pair

by Monday

; 3 days before deadline.

So people should be VERY clear right now on the pairs they think are most optimal and I deeply encourage anyone in my list(s) to talk to me.

And let me be 100% transparent: I'm still indefinitely making my elaborate readslist. I'm still taking notes, updating it, evaluating it, etc. But I'm thinking it's a bad idea to blow up the thread with it at this point.

I'll only leak the read-notes of someone I'm sorting, scumreading, or I find it necessary to leak upon request... at least until Pre-Dance is over.

[Taly]

It's been a day, and I need this thread, and my latest words in them - to breathe.

I might post later tonight, but no promises.

[Taly]

RC

, why

ND+Krazy

and

Me+Dann

? How does that affect your play with

Ank

?

cause otherwise I'm right now pretty exhausted being dragged along by Taly and I'm almost to the point of getting pissed with Nancy so I would otherwise like to take a break from this game for the day

I'm sorry that I'm not being very straight forward

Krazy

... if I were in your position, I'd probably be frustrated with me.

I can't give a very honest

"bottom 2 ladies and bottom 3 gents"

right now because multiple reads - even people I've thought are scum - have given me second thoughts.

(Allo, S_S, Dr. W - specifically, but I wouldn't categorize them as townreads)

Gamma/TheBrie

are 2 people I'm not concerned with right now because they're both lady's and I haven't seen much that's noteworthy of them.

Moment

is still catching up, and while I want him to elaborate more on the game, I don't feel strongly about him either way.

DoubtingThomas

seems towny, but they're popping in and out so I want to gauge their viewpoint more, and I have townpoints AND scumpoints on

PvtUrist

So who do you most want to talk about that align with my list?

I deeply encourage anyone in my list(s) to talk to me.

sup

TheBrie

is your strongest townread, non-paired lady outside of myself. How come you haven't engaged with her?

@taly what about me

Why do you think we would be good partners? And who is someone else you'd want to partner with?

[Taly]

Upon further thought, I don't want to keep asking people and gauging for thoughts on everyone before I pair.

Several of my townreads have a different idea of who I should pair with, and my lack of decision seems more like a detriment to the gamestate since several people seem to be sitting around on the possibility I'd pair with them. This is bad for cohesion and clarity.

I want to pair tomorrow.

I'll ask Nancy tomorrow, probably

Don't really feel like waiting any longer

That leaves Taly/Krazy probably unless there are any sudden changes of heart

This works because I wanted to know your stance on a pairing with

Nancy

, and I want to tie the knot with

Krazy

<3



(I do legit want to work with you

Krazy

, I just take a bit to process information, and I wanted to see people's reactions before I commit to anything. :3

if

Dann's

comfortable with

Nancy

, I'm good with you.)

I'm OK with

PB+DR.W

, I like

Dr. W

a bit more on a reread but I'll dissect that more later.

[Taly]

NOTICE the ONES with LOW POSTS are SCUM IN EVERYBIDY"S MINDS?? DR WORM will THINK about THIS!!

I like you.

[Taly]

fuck

me

Krazy's early posts are even scummier than I thought they were

[Taly]

RC

, are you going to follow-up on your opinions with the pairs and reasons of them? Mostly regarding

Dan/Krazy/Nancy/I

?

I don't know if

Krazy+Nancy

would work out if you're still thinking

Dann+Me

is most optimal.

TheBrie

, who do you want to pair with? And why is

Krazy+Me

better than

Dann+Taly

or that

Dann+Nancy

is good?

You townread

GE

? What do you think is a good pair for them?

[Taly]

Ugh. I'm just going to voice what's getting on my nerves.

Ank

, you're only talking about your

Krazy

read in depth when it seems like he's going to get paired...

Your posts as a whole suggest that you keep going back and forth of your read of him, and you're not giving ANY alternative to a pair of him even when mutually townread people believe it's optimal with the gamestate.

Do you think

Krazy

is a deepwolf?

Most of your earliest points on a

Krazy

scumread don't suggest anything specifically NAI, and if you keep going back to find more reasons, then why aren't you trying to concisely speak about them?

Because now's a great-ass time to do so; your tune in this game shifts frequently and it's difficult to see your viewpoint when you're putting more effort on having your views seen rather than they get explained.

[Taly]

Listen very clearly, everyone



I'm not meaning to get frustrated or be bitchy



But right now, I think things in this thread need to happen for town's best interest



I'm ready to go



So let's do this

[Taly]

RC

<3

I want to replay this setup with you if it's not the reason for your lack of motivation

[Taly]

I don't understand why

Krazy

-scum would bring up 3+ strategies and weigh each of them out accordingly while being very forthcoming with how the town thought about it.

It seemed the most thoughtful approach of the setup, and I feel like scum would stick further to an agenda and a set plan, and control HOW people talked about the setup rather than give suggestions. 62 - 69 - 77 - 90 - 101 - 122

Plus, I haven't played with

Krazy

before, but our personalities mesh very well. I never felt like he was pocketing me, and he NEVER pushed this onto me.

1)

1474 - 1526 he veiled that he didn't expect me to immediately accept, it told me he asked NOT just because he wanted to pair with me... 1861 but this post implies that he didn't EXPECT me to accept, because he trusted his townread on me, and for me to NOT opportunistically jump at the first chance I get invited.

It told me that his townread of me was more genuine, rather than a strategy to get into a pair with a highly townread person.

2)

I wasn't even widely townread until around the 2000 post marks, I'd say, around the

S_S

came in was when people actively voiced their reads of me on a broad scale 2313 - 2491 - 2603/2604 - 2647

(and other posts that I'm not taking forever to look)

, and I felt that

Krazy

-scum would've waited for that interval to say he wanted to dance with me.

3)

Though he didn't, he made his thoughts clear to me early on in 880 - 1445 - 1518 - 1526 - 1864 - 2640 and from this point since, has worked with me as if any partner would, and has consistently checked up on my reads and thoughts of the game.

Yes,

Krazy

has put a LOT of energy focusing on a pairing with me, but I fail to see any scum-motivation, and working with him in a PT would help my view of the game better as opposed to multiple other gent options.

I think the point of his early game setup spec was to set up scum being able to pocket their partners

And lo and behold... he pushed to do that himself for Taly

This was my BIGGEST concern stated in the game, and I thought I made this very clear.

Please point out to me any fallacy in my logic - that I'm being misled or pocketed by

Krazy

. I want to hear you out because I thoroughly don't see it.

[Taly]

I'm sorry

Ank

, but if

Krazy

pocketing me was a big concern

You shouldn't have paired with

RC

before we sorted out pairs with EVERYONE getting a chance to speak.

(Granted, this is not all on you, RC should've stuck to his original thought and waited a day or so before pairing.

Suicide-pairing should be the LAST type of pair made in this setup, not the SECOND.)

And while I'm being hard-nosed here

(apology about that,

this interaction is NOT personal at all

Ank

-

<3 <3 <3

)

, I'm taking

full

accountability of my reads and I have good reason to accept

Krazy

.

[Taly]

Actually, just for full disclosure on my problems with yesterday

(And to be fair here)

RC

should've spoken to ME in the thread about

Krazy

OR whenever he became 100% confident with

Ank

scum and thought pairing to leave her first dance was a VIABLE idea.

(Since Nancy was in the thread at the time, and RC townreads me/Her the most out of the Ladies)

This is why town NEEDS communication and teamwork in this game more than anything.

But you know... shoulda'coulda'woulda'

I'm done bitching. I'm gonna play.

(I'm liking this game a lot, tbh.)

Firebringer

, are we cool now?

[Taly]

S_S

, do you believe

Krazy+Me

is scum/town or even scum/scum?

Better yet, if you believe

Krazy

IS pocketing me, then how do you think pairs should go?

Who do YOU want to pair with?

None of these questions are rhetorical, btw.

[Taly]

Help me read

S_S

,

Dann

.

I'm signing off for now.

[Taly]

Help me read

S_S

,

Dann

.

I'm signing off for now.

If it helps, I've only played once with SS; I was scum and he was town. I wanted to mislynch him and it turned out to be impossible, so I trust his town game enough to survive when he gets real pressure.

My most memorable experience with

S_S

was here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75347

S_S

replaced in, gave very passive and partial judgment, I overlooked it, and by the time I was NKed, nobody was in the position to fault him as scum.

Allo pairing? Me no likey

Is this because he asked for a pair? Or how he did it?

However, I do want to pair with someone who is a pretty easy lynch (though not necessarily widely scumread), because that seems to be how my slot is treated. (I still have the feeling that this is mostly because I'm the only replacement... discrimination ) That way, if we do end up getting mislynched at least two question marks will be removed at once, and if the person I pick turns out to be scum we get to see scum squirm to try to keep us alive for as long as possible.

This is one thing I liked from

S_S'

reply. You're looking at partnering similar to how I've been - actually, and you persisting to be OK with partnering by someone who is lynchbaity even with the suspicion of you a level of survivialism that doesn't read as scum...

1371 is a post I randomly came across while looking through stuff. Noting it here because it is the source of both my Allo and my Vedith townreads.

Dr. Worm's

points about post count and reads in 2793 and 2795 give an indication of a deepwolf in the game.

If that's true, gamestate says

Allo

and you are town... But that could be a red herring.

Questioning my reads right now will only push me back to indecision and waffling; I have faith and good reason for a lot of my reads right now and I want to stick to them.

I don't think

Allo

should 100% be the person left behind in the game - at least not with the understated reasoning on him, and I'm less suspect of

S_S

, whether these sentiments change my reads or the direction of them - I'm not sure yet.

who is a better match than Krazy? Does Ank see Urist/DT as preferable matches?

The problem with this is that I don't think

Urist/DT

are my best options on both a playstyle and read level.

[Taly]

The only reason I'm not accepting

Krazy

RIGHT NOW

is because I want to give

Ank

a fair hearing... even though I strongly doubt my view will change.

Also, I want

Krazy

to be present when I do it but that's not a requirement.

[Taly]

Townreads are, in playerlist order, RC, Allo, Worm, Vedith, Ank, Taly.

Also, I thought you were scum reading Taly. But maybe I misunderstood something.

I was nullreading Taly. But I townread Ank and she seems to have a pretty strong grasp on Taly's meta.

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

^And to be clear, this is not "suspicion" I'm casting, I'm being truthful.

Taly any progress on bottom two ladies/bottom three gents? Given a few people listed Allo as their top fos, and he has offered a dance to Brie, do you feel Allo should be paired?

I'm not feeling strong enough on anyone being 100% ruled out, especially early-phase scumreads.

And I don't have strong scumreads, so what value is me giving bottom 2 ladies and bottom 3 gents?

I have more bottom gents than bottom ladies, though.

Tbh Taly I think there's not much to do about it by this point

I really just want you to be aware that he could be trying to play the long game here, which involves the scumteam predominantly pocketing their partners of choice.

FTR if RC is legitimately scum here, I would be far more suspicious of Krazy than I already am since my presence would be the biggest danger for him and it would make RC's overall play with this make perfect sense.

*shrug* RC

is town to me.

I have nothing to say to her. Only you, Ank, and fb are townreads.

Brie, PB, and GE are null-reads;

i wasn't really sure about the order.

Okay looks like people are pairing. I better hurry up. I know Taly won't pair with me, so

I'm going with my second highest townread unpaired lady

.

TheBrie, dance with me?

Brie, you can do better. This is desperate.

Depending on who Taly chooses, one of Krazy/DT/Urist, I think?

I'm literally seconds away from accepting

Krazy

, do you think it's too early?

[Taly]

My problem with Ank is that right before Taly is going to accept Krazy she says Krazy may be scum, and right after I accept Dr. Worm she says my reads are bad. Is like she's trying to set up WIFOM and future lynches.

I very slightly didn't like this post but it doesn't move PB at all in my order

maybe I'm just not used to people who don't know me that well defending me

Although I did mean to ask-- PB, you said last game that my being in the signup sheet was a reason you wanted to play? Have I played with your main then? I haven't really prioritized mainhunting you since I think you have several games on this account but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing there

I was iffy on the post too, but I didn't see value in pointing it out since my read hasn't changed either.

Also because part of my earliest paranoia of

Ank

was for the reason

PB

listed here.

p-edit

I don't know if

Ank

has anything else to say before I make my decision?

[Taly]

When you want to sort me without relying on someone else's meta, lmk.

Do you think her meta argument is inaccurate?

He feels a lot more like the one town Taly I played with years ago than the over the top scum Taly that I strongly believe he would have opened with like Echo Bay Grits and Labyrinth

The difference is very jarring and its a lot easier to see the genuineness in what he's posting when he plays this way.

No, it's actually VERY accurate. I can be very difficult to sort and sometimes misleading with metadives for people who have little experience with me.

But I'm more predictable after awhile.

However, I DO like people to use in-game examples to townread me, and not rely on meta because that excuses problems that arise from my gameplay, and that's why I don't use meta often with people even when I have experience with them.

~

lmao,

Nancy

, it's taking you 50 fucking years to get to my 2381 I've been watching the thread.

[Taly]

i just snorted milk through my nose laughing AHHHHHHHH

[Taly]

However, I DO like people to use in-game examples to townread me, and not rely on meta because that excuses problems that arise from my gameplay

I don't follow. What do you mean by that last bit?

If people write me off as town based on meta, nobody is going to naturally critique or challenge reads on me, so it makes filtering whats genuine and not harder.

I apply this sentiment to mafia in general. I might digress on this but I'm somewhat occupied.

Taly is actually a hydra of RC and Ankamius

true story

<3

I'm sigging this post-game.

[Taly]

Give me some credit Ank;
I have enough wisdom to not locktown/lockscum anyone in the first phase of a game.

<3

<3

<3 I accept Krazy's offer. <3

<3

<3

I claim 7 coins.

[Taly]

I'll get my head into the thread more when I'm not playing DND. (I'm in the middle of a 10 minute break hence my post)

Now that I have a pair and a better view of some of my reads upon a reread - I can focus solely on gamesolving and other people's pairs, and there's still multiple days to do such.

[Taly]

I'm back to being OK with

Allo

being left behind for multiple of his recent posts, but I'm curious about

TheBrie's

read of him if she's willing.

But until we have more pairs, I'm not 100% on this yet. Also making note of 3062 for later reference.

I also want

Vedith

to explain if his read on

Allo

has changed at all, and why/why not.

*Check if I miss something or have something incorrect*

Firebringer+Vedith=8 Coins
Taly+Krazy=7 Coins
Gamma Emerald+?=6 Coins
Dr. Worm+Pinkball=5 Coins
Ankamius+RC=4 Coins
Nancy+Dannflor=? Coins (don't out unless you'd like)

TheBrie and S_S are the only other lady's unpaired aside from GE.

I suggest regardless of reads, all ladies should be paired for as many potential town as possible.

[Taly]

I'm going to ISO-group

Moment/Brie/Gamma

and get back to your question

It shouldn't take very long (though I do need to get food and take a shower in a bit)

[Taly]

I haven't looked at

PvtUrist

but

>

TheBrie and GE

most strike me as town, with me being a little less sure of

Moment

for his lack for explaining readslist and lower amounts of posts/thoughts
>

GE+Moment

does not sound very viable since

Moment

has not stated a townread and I didn't notice any that

Gamma

made, so I don't see the point in this unless they actively sort each other now which is.... ehhhh... because that interferes with interactions.

I would think of

GE+TheBrie

, but they're both ladies. lol

I'm asking

GE+PvtUrist+TheBrie+Moment

to discuss who they would think are good partners, and it's not exclusive amongst themselves.

But from the ISO-group,

TheBrie+Moment

is something I'd be happy with IF THEY CONSENT. :3

[Taly]

I've never really seen a good scum read articulated on Moment. It's mostly been admitted be correlated with low posting.

I also trust

TheBrie+Moment

more because of this statement - this seems like a genuine attempt at reading

Moment

despite what people generally state.

TheBrie

, to be concise - thoughts on

Allo

,

PvtUrist

and

Moment

?

[Taly]

@Mod, Nancy+Dann couple became a thing at 2928

Just to make sure it was seen; since it wasn't listed in the pair list.

[Taly]

I think people should be pairing and planning pairs in good faith.

Even if it contradicts my reads, there's a good chance scum have already partnered.

People who are being paired now / lower posters shouldn't automatically be considered lynchbait or scum.

DT

stands out as most towny gent out of

Him/PvtUrist/Moment/Allomancer

to me

TheBrie

stands out as most towny lady out of

Her/Gamma Emerald/Something_Smart

to me

While I gave reasons for

TheBrie+Moment

, I'm not opposed to

DT+TheBrie

based on reads, unless either of them voice a concern or disagree.

[Taly]

Is your townread of DT exclusively based on 1265 or are you focusing on tone?

A bit of both. I think townreading multiple people in this game with the setup is more indicative of town, and

DT

presented a reason for most of his reads thus far.

I also don't think scum would so effortlessly fake ignorance about the gamestate or question how to go about partnering, much less ask other people for clarification and thoughts in this case.

DT

reads as genuine to me, this isn't a strong read, but it's something.

[Taly]

Krazy

- one step at a time

TheBrie+Moment

or

TheBrie+DT

, or another option?

[Taly]

skimmed up the thread... last thoughts of the day

ugh. I get and feel all the points on

Allo

-scum but then he makes posts like 3245 and I'm like

"well damn, if this flips town, I'm going to feel stupid as fuck"

, and I think ANYONE who townreads

Allo

should towncase him.

Right now, I don't know who I'd rather leave out in the dance, but I do still think

DT/TheBrie

are the towniest of their role pools, and thus, top priority to pair.

Not as sure about

Gamma

right now, they've been the least effective out of the lower posters in the thread tonight - but this is based off skimming.

I don't get the constant

PvtUrist V Dannflor

dichotomy bullshit being made, but it doesn't feel natural anymore; I don't want to cultivate more uncertainty over those two, but the TvT vibe about them has partially dissipated - I need to sleep on this.

(Pink, you townread them both, yes? Help me here.)

I think anyone pointing major scumreads right now versus thinking about pairs deserve an eyebrow raise. Might not be scum-indicative, but unhelpful.

[Taly]

I don't get the constant

PvtUrist V Dannflor

dichotomy bullshit being made, but it doesn't feel natural anymore; I don't want to cultivate more uncertainty over those two, but the TvT vibe about them has partially dissipated

Good. That's the intention.

In what world is this town-motivated?

[Taly]

I think anyone pointing major scumreads right now versus thinking about pairs deserve an eyebrow raise. Might not be scum-indicative, but unhelpful.

I feel like the two go hand-in-hand don't they?

Thinking about the bottom pairing directly effects how we imagine dance 1 playing out

also kinda confused why you'd be annoyed that Pvt finally did something this game

I like that

he is

doing something.

The point behind it

is what I'm trying to gauge.

Anyway, goodnight guys I'm going to bed.

p-edit

I don't get the constant

PvtUrist V Dannflor

dichotomy bullshit being made, but it doesn't feel natural anymore; I don't want to cultivate more uncertainty over those two, but the TvT vibe about them has partially dissipated

Good. That's the intention.

In what world is this town-motivated?

Wait for a flip on one of us then you'll know.

I think this approach rarely, if ever, ends well.

*shrug*

[Taly]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think

S_S

is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say

Me+Krazy

is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

[Taly]

I have math to do; I just wanted to drop in and see the thread, I'll be on later.



I woke up in a slightly stormy mood.

[Taly]

Krazy

, we're not forcing anything until it's discussed between both us and the public thread.

A reason you have my coins is because you seemed less quick to vote based on how you strategize and approach this game/setup.

Don't let emotions rule you. ^_^

[Taly]

OK actually, that 2 second pity part is over.

Krazy

- maintain homestasis and chill

<3 <3 <3

OK I need to prepare for Math tutoring session in 45 minutes so bye

*final thought; now is a

SHITTY

time to discuss which pairings are endgame-material because that tells scum how to play *

[Taly]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think

S_S

is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say

Me+Krazy

is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours

If it's this drastic coincidentally after the pair is made then I already distrust it, and am hoping you can fill me in because Ive been asleep or doing college work for the majority of these hours.

Casting uncertainty on pairs right now presents many problems for town over something that cannot be changed or dealt with this game phase.

Now, do you agree with my assessment that DT and TheBrie are most likely town of their pools?

[Taly]

Explain the Moment townread?

Please work with me Ank. I'm getting worked up right now. :/

[Taly]

Krazy's

posts have been emotional but it's more town-emotional to me.

I'm standing by my read on

Krazy

and will hard defend that with a fiery anger until next gamephase.

Pairs can't be changed right now, so the more suspicion casted on a person in a pair - creates lynchbait for them and their partner, and generates WIFOM.

I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons

Do you disagree with this statement in my post earlier today? Why? And my above statement about it?

*final thought; now is a SHITTY time to discuss which pairings are endgame-material because that tells scum how to play *

[Taly]

ugh, I'm not typing calmly or thinking straight

Pairs can't be changed at all, but nothing can be done to the people taking part in them right now via the gamephase.

[Taly]

If someone is townreading me - and especially if they're townreading me with reliable meta, I need them to ask me questions or engage with me directly on their ideas for pairs.

I'm going to read

Moment's

latest posts in depth and ISO

S_S

and think more.

Also need people to engage with me because my townreads on

TheBrie/DT

don't seem popular?

[Taly]

I can't focus on gamesolving at the moment. I keep being told that I've been pocketed when I've both defended against that notion and wanted people to expand on an alternative.

I've even made it abundantly clear that pocketing was what I was trying to avoid. I don't feel like people have empathized with me on a cool-headed level, and I still feel that

Krazy

is genuine.

I'm getting angry and sad and it's clouding my judgment and I feel alone right now. :/

I need a breath and help.

[Taly]

I'm shelving it until second dance at least

I'm not in some immediate rush to kill your pairing

+1 to both of you. There are advantages to a townread+suspected pair (it's a reason why I claimed my coin count).

But they disintegrate if doubt is placed around the pairing early on.

I'm listening to you guys and that I'm not locktowning

Krazy

, but I feel I currently have a well-reasoned townread there, and so my acceptance to him is valid.

So I hope you guys see my POV more here.

<3

I incorporate gamestate, reads, and playstyle into my decision here.

I don't want to speak anymore about this at this stage of the game.

[Taly]

I

do

need a mental break from this thread, though. I've averaged 30+ posts a day since this game has begun.

I'll get to the ISOs and reads I've mentioned, but I'm not promising I'll post more today.

And for my optimal sanity - it's probably best you guys encourage me to give the thread a break.

[Taly]

Here's some thoughts I didn't initially think to post, but I see more long-term harm in withholding them than not.

People, just humor me here. This is not a read-reversal; but some food for thought that isn't obligated to generate a direct reply.

I don't like a good bit of

Allo's

posting but then I see multiple people pointing out the same problems and scumreads on his posts for essentially this entire dayphase and it gives me pause.

Unless

Dann/PB

OR the reISO-dive I'm going to do can convince me that

Urist

is town, I'm equally OK with him being left out.

I'll probably post the multiple +'s and -'s I have on

Urists'

play tomorrow but he's been a volatile read this entire dayphase and his motive and attitude towards

Dann

makes me rethink his motivation; and I'm not convinced that scum would AVOID bargaining for their flip/death/lynch Pre-Dance if it meant to cast WIFOM on an already townread/paired player.

The only hangup I have with this gamestate is

that if most - if not all - scum haven't been paired yet, then why is

Allo

the unpaired person who's asked the most to dance? And is this really scum-indicative of itself at this point?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly

who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

Thanks for the vote of confidence; but there's a difference between

obvtown

and

accurate-town

and I'm trying not to favor one quality over the other.

If you want to progress the gamestate then how about you ask any of the ladies who you'd want to dance with and start?

I'll commit to my ISOs/reads on Moment/Urist/Allo/S_S tomorrow or Wednesday depending on my mood, clarity, and schedule.

[Taly]

I think my words and thoughts on the gamestate have less and less value the more I post until this gamephase ends.

I'm still going to voice reads, ISO assessments, replies, and pairings I think are good

; but I've said mostly what I've wanted to say in terms of the gamestate and my weighted opinions are just another noise for people who need to make their own decisions in the game.

I'm definitely going to be attentive for the remaining 3 1/2 days until deadline, yet less present unless requested.

I'm still of the belief that having all 8 pairs are optimal as it's most practical to ensure more town alive.

<3 <3

Goodnight guys, it's 10:30 on a college night... I need to sleep ASAP.

<3 <3

[Taly]

[Taly]

Just to make sure I'm clear here (legit putting phone up after this to sleep)

I think PvtUrist is scum but I don't have the confidence to push it yet, as I'm going to reread him to see if I change my mind.

And I don't think Allo should be auto left out of dance before at least 2 people ISO him with genuinity.

<3 I love that you guys say goodnight back to me Gives me warm fuzzies

[Taly]

I have thoughts on pairings as I've done some ISO skimming and references to my readnotes.

The thing is, the past 4 people speaking in this thread - 5 would include me - has all different levels of the same reads on the same group of people.

So I don't know if I should throw my thoughts in before

Moment/Urist/S_S/TheBrie

get into the thread?

[Taly]

[Taly]

I have thoughts on pairings as I've done some ISO skimming and references to my readnotes.

The thing is, the past 4 people speaking in this thread - 5 would include me - has all different levels of the same reads on the same group of people.

So I don't know if I should throw my thoughts in before

Moment/Urist/S_S/TheBrie

get into the thread?

What am I, chopped liver?

I mean, since you're already here, to imply that I'm ignoring you is false.

There's 4 potential people able to pair with you, and you're focusing on my post which doesn't directly address you.

P-Edit

3637, do you have no reads then

Gamma

? Not even weak or non-confident ones?

[Taly]

3637, do you have no reads then Gamma? Not even weak or non-confident ones?

Let me rephrase this better; there are 4 potential pairings for you

Gamma

, are you at the point of asking anyone or accepting anyone if they hypothetically asked you?

Also, I doubt people will give a shit if a lady asks a gent for a dance, and if it doesn't mechanically work, then it tells the other person you're an option.

[Taly]

I think I'd have preferred to be a Gent in this setup, in hindsight lol XD

I've been right several times recently when everyone disagreed with me, even in a particular game where you did as well

I'm just not sold on

Moment

-town. I don't disagree with much else.

I don't know if I should post this textwall that I had prepared now, or later when more unpaired people post. :/

@Taly did you sleep well?

Good <3

Nothing to add

-1

[Taly]

i swear i get mislynched over the dumbest shit possible at the times i do

i dont even know why i was even scumread in the first place in SC2

i dont work well when towns knowingly stab at themselves saying "AM I CATCHING SCUM? AM I CATCHING SCUM!?"

my only regret was not pushing my 2 correct votes on scum

(Alch/Pint)

, but it was hard to do that when i was deathtunneled by a hydra i townread

(love you STW)

and literally half the people who knew me in the game was comparing me to my LABYRINTH GAMEPLAY.

UGH. GTFO.

im not salty at all anymore tbh, but you know.

i had to get some unfiltered thoughts out it was a good game until i... flaked but gg scum in that game and ty again for modding

Krazy

<3

[Taly]

oh and im not flaking in game anymore

hence why i joined this game so i can practically play with somone post-D1

and im open for hydra'ing to... some people

im done rambling now, i need to do math and posting without substance here is bad form

[Taly]

... I've rewritten this post maybe 3 times today so it feels like I've made concerns clear to you guys that haven't been addressed yet I haven't said anything... lol

With the lack of initiative with unpaired people at the moment

(or it could just be their scheduling)

, I might as well say my thoughts. I looked at my readnotes and did some ISO skims.

S_S

is the towniest unpaired person to me at the moment. Not a lot of posts strike me as town, but the ones that do, are things that I can't foresee scum saying in this gamestate.

I still want someone to speak to me about their

Moment

townread because I'm not sold yet. Although,

Moment+S_S

sound like a good idea because their read progression on each other is town and I believe it's natural.

Krazy's

towncase on

Gamma

is both short and without strong townpoints, not something I vibe with. I'm wanting to work with

Gamma

on his perception about the game but he's not done much aside from putting reads out and showing frustration when people want him to do more.

DT+Brie

townreads are a bit less confident now but they're the only other current pairing right now that I think works.
I don't know if I'll advocate for this pairing, though.

Which would still leave

Urist, Allo, and Gamma

, though.

Urist

is still scum to me since I can see my earlier listed townpoints be applicable to scum. I dislike how the thread has virtually brushed

Allo's

entire existence off, but I don't feel strongly about him any other way, and I don't want to push

Gamma

because his response today was a reason why I didn't want to plan or talk about pairs much at all anymore.

So there's my low-weight pairing suggestions.

Moment+S_S

at top ONLY if they consent, maybe

TheBrie+DT

and

Gamma+Allo or Urist

[Taly]

just checking

are people reading my wallposts the past 2 days?

[Taly]

krazy

talk to me about your reads bb

[Taly]

I still want someone to speak to me about their Moment townread because I'm not sold yet

also

kittybells

, do you think i have improved at mafia since 2015?

i know - impulsive question but still

im building self-confidence and not ranking myself but i still wonder about peoples thoughts at times

p-edit

krazy <3

Thoughts on

Moment

? I'm not feeling strongly about

Gamma

either way, early-game I had a townread there, but that's faded.

[Taly]

+1 to this entire page and everyone posting - seriously.

Game aside for a moment, I enjoy this playerlist, setup, and I like playing with you guys even when things get very tensed.

and I mean this. ^_^

(Even if I do throw good-feels in mafia games to help cohesion and minimize arguments. I'm going to be more real like this in the future.)

I'm nodding off... I need rest so I won't get too stressed about a Trigonometry test I have tomorrow.

(We only had 10 days - 3 class periods - to go through 4 LESSONS... They're easy, and I've studied - but fingers crossed - I, and many people would want to have MORE time to study, I hope I got this... I'm sure I do.)

Goodnight!

[Taly]

I'll get to you sometime tomorrow

Krazy

, I saw your reply <3

Also, I've said a lot of understated reads lately, so if someone wants to inquire - then I'll explain them more.

(I'll explain most - if not all of them - at some point anyway, though.)

[Taly]

i even acutely know ahead of time that this waffling is going to get wolfread but i can't do anything about it cuz like

fuuck

ss questioned basically every inclusion in the locktown pool (taly, nd, etc) then tried to get him(her?)self hitched with moment

I don't wolfread you, as this was my initial concern with

S_S

.

But I'm done questioning any of my reads until flips occur, for the exact reason you just displayed.

This game is either very easy, or nightmare level - so I'm not going to cast uncertainty when I can't do anything about it and makes it worse.

I want to say more but I'm not outing my top townreads.

I think nancy drew pairing is going to be shot and i think me/ankamius are going to end up self destructing at some point

i'll read brie's old games again because i don't want to be the reason she's not brought to endgame if she's town but ugh this situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Really? Some slots are scumreading us both. Me: Allo and although SS hasn’t stated a scumread on me, he asked others to towncase me and Krazy has advocated a deepwolf theory on Dann.

And I think Urist is still scumreading him as well, unless that’s changed?

Why should

Urist

be kept in the dance,

Nancy

? (I also want

Moment

to explain their thought here)

I don't feel that they're town.

Thoughts on Moment? I'm not feeling strongly about Gamma either way, early-game I had a townread there, but that's faded.

To be honest when I was doing the "who are the gents left in the game list" earlier Moment was the name I had to go back and remind myself of. I have almost no thoughts on him. I thought he was townie briefly when he got angry at me for posting a lot but I've since second-guessed that, leaving him quite null. Doesn't give me a strong reason to second-guess the people townreading him though and I have no problem with pairing him with someone like Gamma that I see as lynchbaity town, but I don't really have a need to pick a fight there with RC and I don't see a need to force Moment into that pairing if he doesn't want it. I more want to see what he actually chooses to do and not over-analyze his slot until he does more AI stuff.

I'm in the same boat, I need to read

Moment

a bit more but I don't see anything that particularly strikes out to me as people have said he's town...

Thoughts on

Urist

and

Allo

?

I won't pry anymore about reads until our PT.

Been finding it difficult to get back into the game, I'll admit that I currently have no scumreads (rather, not one with enough evidence or confidence to push on, after what happened with Dann).

Any other suspicion besides

Dann

?

[Taly]

With 6 pairs, I think we skip Pre-Dance because of just 12 people.

I'm going to get to

Urist

and

Krazy

tonight, probably, and some thoughts on a few posts.

I'm being very lax at this point, and am waiting for a flip and my PT.

p-edit

hi

rc

[Taly]

With 6 pairs, I think we skip Pre-Dance because of just 12 people.

I'm going to get to

Urist

and

Krazy

tonight, probably, and some thoughts on a few posts.

I'm being very lax at this point, and am waiting for a flip and my PT.

p-edit

hi

rc

I mean First Dance.

...this math test earlier today that plagued mine and the souls of 30 other misfortunate people have taken its toll.

10 days for half a unit of math work... 4 lessons and only 3 less-than-hour long classes.... and I only had time to schedule 1 tutoring appointment.

Just going to say my brain's dead and I'm not optimistic with my results.

[Taly]

im typing wallposts rn btw

[Taly]

Not confident in my townread on

Vedith

but I hate the fear-mongering posts about him yolo-ruining town as much as I hate the indifference-born gamelong scumread on

Allo

.

Don't worry, I'm touching up on that in my multi-wallpost shit.

[Taly]

as much as I hate the indifference-born gamelong scumread on

Allo

.

What socery is this

I'm sorry, can you point to me somewhere when

Allo

has said anything in the last 2000 posts that doesn't get an auto

"this is scum" or "not town"

response?

The points on him being scum haven't left for me, but gamestate can very easily point to him being lynchbaity town - as I no longer trust people's automatic instinct on him based off a widely disapproving interaction.

[Taly]

Not confident in my townread on Vedith but I hate the fear-mongering posts about him

That's a very weird and leading way to describe it.

What I'm weighing here is the chance RC is scum versus the chance Vedith is scum.

I don't think anyone suggested he's actually likely to yolobomb, but we have to consider it as a possibility.

lmfao.

I'm going to get to this after my current posts are done being typed.

I can fill a pages worth of posts proving the bolded statement wrong.

And if someone's

CONSIDERING

it as a

POSSIBILITY

- they

ARE

suggesting that

Vedith

can do it. So your defense here makes 0 sense to me.

[Taly]

If people have to strategize solely around ONE person's game decision/voting play with how much leverage town can acquire for themselves in a game narrative in this setup, it's probably not thought with good/towny gamesolving faith or intentions.

[Taly]

If people have to strategize solely around ONE person's game decision/voting play with how much leverage town can acquire for themselves in a game narrative in this setup, it's probably not thought with good/towny gamesolving faith or intentions.

And don't bring up the "coin mechanic" counterargument.

Nobody can stop someone from leaving if they feel so strongly that their partner has fucked up and I trust either

FB

or

Vedith

to make a sound decision on this because I strongly believe at least ONE of them is town.

[Taly]

If people have to strategize solely around ONE person's game decision/voting play with how much leverage town can acquire for themselves in a game narrative in this setup, it's probably not thought with good/towny gamesolving faith or intentions.

And don't bring up the "coin mechanic" counterargument.

Nobody can stop someone from leaving if they feel so strongly that their partner has fucked up and I trust either

FB

or

Vedith

to make a sound decision on this because I strongly believe

at least ONE

of them is town.

bolded is the key phrasing here

[Taly]

So here.

PB, Dann and Krazy have explained their town-read on me. Taly and Anka, mind explaining your scum read?

While you're at it, explain why exactly Allomancer is town and should be in the dance before me.

I'll try to play a bit more seriously, now that I'm no longer drunk tunneling.

1)

You've said that you don't have strong or really any scumreads right now, but you haven't done much about them. 3825

2)

You've made multiple posts about how

Dann

is scum - which by itself isn't bad, but here's what pinges me:

(3264/3265 - this is only counting the last few hundred posts.)

-

You're casing him when he's widely townread AND with ANOTHER widely townread pairing -

Nancy

, AND someone you had a townread on in 1988- yet I don't recall you ever interjecting that their pairing was bad.

-

The only notable posts about this game I have with you is your scumread on

Dann

because you've not asserted any other read as strongly as yours on him.

-

We can't lynch yet, but you're focusing more on scumcasing him rather than discussing pairs.

3)

You're OK being left behind Pre-Dance because of your scumread on

Dann

. 3275

-

If you're as confident in being town as you say you are - why are you nonchalant at dying just to prove your point on someone you can't mechanically lynch at the time?

4)

Also, I noted that I didn't find you guys much as a TvT anymore, but you're fine with that? I don't believe in your overconfidence on the

Dann

read. 3271

5)

And the above 2 points makes less sense as town because 2045 is such an odd post where you're debating ALL realities of

Dann/Your

alignment.

6)

You entertained a scumteam theory 1991

(even though this post said that the scumreads are isolated and not pre-flip associatives 1998 except for Moment in 2007)

and that idea dissipated without much else to say.

Your stance around your

more-stated reads

are noncommital.. It feels like you're positioning yourself to have your flip cast WIFOM on otherwise townread players and I don't see any post that strongly indicates you're wanting to solve the game.

S_S

from a read perspective is 2118 - and it doesn't imply town. So I don't get why you're asking for a dance there now?

Spoiler: I'm going to be fair and reveal my readnotes on you; and how I feel they've aged given your posts since 3 days ago.

PvtUrist *Volatile*

+

I don't think scum would post a readslist like this and state he doesn't expect to be alive later 1988, unless

PvtUrist

is explicitly hard-distancing from his scumreads, but there's nothing to tell that yet.

With linked your posting, I can definitely see the italicized being true.

+

707 was a mile away from his recent readslist, so I'm inclined to think that he's had a genuine read progression.

This is long and irrelevant enough ago to where I don't see this post being valid, nor is it 100% town-indicative.

-

Mostly early game, he didn't do mucha bout his many null reads and had been passive outside of

Dann

-

Not liking the associative theory talk here 1991, as neither individual scumread is cased much 2009, I'd like it explained.

Now

Urist

, there are things that I've thought were towny of you as well before my readnotes - as I'm not feeling very strong or confident in my scumread on you.

But it's there, and you don't have to quote-by-quote deconstruct my wall to convince me otherwise or state your perspective.

I just want a response to the bread of what you receive about my scumread on you.

I just stated why I'm iffy on

Allo

being left. It's not exactly a read thing; but gamestate thing, but I'm still thinking a bit here.

[Taly]

Taly, the issue is--

If Vedith is scum

, it might be right for him to do it. If he is scum, it therefore might be wrong for us to give him that opportunity, and thus, we need to judge the likelihood of him being scum, so we can decide if we want to give him the chance.

Your whole point here relies on a hypothetical idea - of which - you haven't really stated that you legit think

Vedith

is scum?

Is

Vedith

scum to you? It seems you do, otherwise you wouldn't make any plan that relies on the uncertain chance he's scum?

You've mentioned

Krazy

doing something that I assumed made you suspicion of him 3693, but you haven't said anything about the fact that he has 7 coins. What's the difference of here?

Side note - I was going to wallpost this, but too many words will drown out my thinking towards your posts in the past 2 days. Some of your reads seem based on how people interact with your slot, and I don't fully vibe with it?

Another thing is -

RC+Ank

aren't auto-suiciding very stupidly anymore to my understanding. So 3934 seems misplaced, and again, you're talking about how

RC

has an endgame plan but are listing how he'd play as BOTH scum or town here?

I don't comprehend your line of thinking here, and it reads as you not having many unique reads beyond what the thread has notioned in some form.

[Taly]

krazy

, would you prefer NL Dance 1?

i want a quick answer if youre online please <3

[Taly]

i think i want NL much more in hindsight

if we have as many people/pairings as possible, that brings even more advantage to town if we go mountainous without setup getting in the way

plus, an NK and IC would both be much better information to have the MORE players we have alive.

VOTE: No Lynch Dance 1

this is also tentative on the majority of people's desires, as we need consensus

[Taly]

someone shoot me

i didnt want to go strong on any reads in Pre-Dance or talk so much in the last 2 days of Pre-Dance and im violating both shamelessly

i need to hide ASAP

[Taly]

Also, I found your PvT case interesting, but it just kinda compounds the conundrum of why scum in his position would do that. Like, it seems like rather illogical play regardless of alignment, and imo town is more likely to just have games where they're obviously playing illogically or poorly.

hence y its not a strong or confident scumread but

Urist

asked for reasoning ^_^

3934 has a much simpler flaw in it, Taly

Krazy not even humoring it is why I'm pretty certain he's town now

Scum*

I've talked too much about townreads lately

so is

krazy

scum or town to you? and r u going to vote on what he suggested?

id like clarity here but if you dont want to verify now then you dont need to

p-edit

S_S

ill get 2 u tomorrow when i have the brain cells to critically think

[Taly]

blegh, i still think

krazy

confident town a good bit

ank

i also dont see scum-

krazy

following through with a vote on NLing First Dance because it doesnt benefit scum much at all

>: imma be sad if im pocketed this game

there is a time where im going to more critically evaluate

krazy

and now is not it

p-edit

can we not do the whole

"if X flips Y alignment, then im suspecting Z"

pre-any flip rn?

you guys talk about having strong townreads but then obviously generate paranoia from your lack of withholding non-constructive sentiments

k ty

[Taly]

i wrote a poem about my feelingz,

ankle

poor me

woe is me

im a frageel townie who is

so obvtown but not as accurate

destined to be in scummies pockets

(but honestly tho... this isnt inaccurate)