Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[DrDolittle]

DDL, your spot claimed town. Do you agree to this?

Yes

[DrDolittle]

Yes, and I would appreciate it if all of your next posts are calling me hard town.

Anyhow will give the thread a read later today

[DrDolittle]

ok i finished reading. VOTE: rce

[DrDolittle]

in particular, I town read Boat, Vork, Tarkus, Vedith, Creature at about this order. Leaning scum on Morality Shoshin RCE.

[DrDolittle]

Actually I think shoshin RCE is s/s. Morality read is independent.

[DrDolittle]

FL town from last game is abrasive. It's weird how he just retreated and disappeared after getting clowned on by boat earlier.

[DrDolittle]

Lack of strong reasoning for the level of town read, while does give reasons for other town reads. Could be pocketing too, I guess

[DrDolittle]

You guys are the same person...

[DrDolittle]

I dont even remember what account I'm playing on and you have a separate persona that you keep up for the whole game? Pls

[DrDolittle]

Those political reads, though

Why political? I can give you reasons for each of them if you ask.

[DrDolittle]

Drd, what u think of ur predecessor?

didnt think about him much at all as i dont have to sort him.

[DrDolittle]

Can you talk about Creature?

Sure. I played a game with creature where he didn't post much either but ended as town, so his activity is now less alignment indicative.

Plus I think scum is a little image-conscious, and wouldn't blatantly claim-scum. And even if they do, they wouldn't go back and scumhunt by rereading the game and talk to themselves for a whole page. Granted it's not excellent hunting and mostly reaction-ing, that's why its also not a uber strong town read, but a town read nonetheless

[DrDolittle]

Kinda think DDL is a woofin

yeah pagetop x2 woof!

[DrDolittle]

DDL, how well do you know Creature?

we played a couple of games together. couple as in maybe ~5?

I do think its neat to see people analyze the people they replace but I guess we can't have nice things

sorry

[DrDolittle]

dont really understand the wagon on vedith

[DrDolittle]

Hmmm.
Top of head
RCE
CoA
Creature
Tarkus (that's you)
DDL
Me

samesies, except switch ddl for vedith huh

[DrDolittle]

Scratch that DrDo, talk to me about RCE?

yeah lets talk RCE. Do you think he's town?

[DrDolittle]

Meh at least bringing up lynching RC confirms my town read on vork

[DrDolittle]

Morality town isn’t until a breaking point. Then he goes Kira all over.

Can you get to breaking point already

[DrDolittle]

DDL, what do you think of Creatures last string?

Extremely unexciting

[DrDolittle]

What's shoshin town meta look like? Does she just go around asking questions but never follows up?

[DrDolittle]

DDL, what do you think of Creatures last string?

Extremely unexciting

I meant as you had him as a town lean but I am confident this is his scum game.

like i could be wrong and i would cede to more familiar meta players... but in a vacuum based on my own experiences and reads, I have him on a lean town read

[DrDolittle]

i meta'd shoshin's normals briefly, and her play is pretty curt compared to previous (both scum and town), which might indicate a lack of time these days. I didn't find anything particularly salient, other than town-shoshin is more likely to follow up with unanswered q's (sample size 2), and scum-shoshin is more interested in trivialities (sample size 1). Given this, I think I more scum lean shoshin this game due to meta?

[DrDolittle]

@bird

Would anyone be interested in a tasty yellow or cowbell wagon

Please when you end up never getting shot as conftown realize that it's because of your reads and start listening to other people's

this seems to be familiar https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2475 (BBT flipped town later)

just enjoy the game and continue doing your reads or whatever even if other people call you bad. I really regretted replacing out of that 1685 as IC (it was my only voluntary replace out) and I think I would have done better than the replace-in just by virtue of being more informed of what's going on.

Oh boon mod'ed that game too!

[DrDolittle]

Holy fuck in what universe would you guys be sitting around shit talking any other player for a 3 year old game? The answer is that you wouldn't.

Dude, I'm just pulling an example for bird to show that IC sometimes gets a lot of shit here here, and not to give in if others call your reads shit because *even* you are fallible. If anything you should take it as a compliment. And yeah sorry its 3 years ago. I've only been IC and shat on so badly once, so it's memorable. Didn't mean to attack you in anyway at all.

With that said, I know can be seen as an incredibly scummy thing to do, in that I could be seen as white knighting IC and soft-encouraging him to continue bad reads, so I figured I should lay this out early rather than later before reads get more concrete and things might get more out of hand.

[DrDolittle]

Creature how many games are you in rn (if that doesn't violate the rules)

[DrDolittle]

Oh I didn't even read the last page anymore because I was so frustrated about the scumreads on me. That's maybe town ok

that's, as in creature?

[DrDolittle]

CoA is the one I don't get.

[DrDolittle]

shoshin isnt even in your town block

[DrDolittle]

in that case why not sheep boat then

[DrDolittle]

i meta'd shoshin's normals briefly, and her play is pretty curt compared to previous (both scum and town), which might indicate a lack of time these days. I didn't find anything particularly salient, other than town-shoshin is more likely to follow up with unanswered q's (sample size 2), and scum-shoshin is more interested in trivialities (sample size 1). Given this, I think I more scum lean shoshin this game due to meta?

The idea that I'm "more likely to follow up with unanswered q's" is provably false. Please provide specific game examples where I followed up on more unanswered questions as town than as scum.

As I argued clearly, I meta'd 3 games in mini normals:
2042 - town shoshin https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
2012 - town shoshin https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
2010 - scum shoshin https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

in the town games, if you search response/respond, there's a lot of hits, and a brief glance indicating shoshin cares about people's responses to her questions and how they react to comments. In the scum-game I link, there is no hits to response/respond. You guys can verify yourself if you want...

I also don't really see the incentive to lie here? Of course sample size is small, so variance could play a role

[DrDolittle]

DDL is active lurking.

wtf how am i active lurking you want to tell me

[DrDolittle]

ive been putting in way more contribution than you and youre just riding off daddy rc is town-reading me coast.

[DrDolittle]

Wow I haven't posted and I'm already being scumread. A lot of Pages for me To read.

I can feel the love.

shoshin wheres ur scumread so i can lynch them with you

VOTE: radiantcowbells

Cow has voted 4 times in the first 7 pages. Looks like they are Looking for reasons to vote than scum.

Is that your opinion or fact?

I'm not scum I'm town. I was Scum once before you can check my wiki.

Right behind me or rc?

These are all bad posts.

Hey look I can do that too!

[DrDolittle]

selective picking short posts doesn't make it a fair sample. otherwise I would get 104 posts of yours that is "bad post".

you haven't responded to why you think im actively lurking

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: shoshin

[DrDolittle]

If Shoshin is town she will force scum to nightkill her before endgame

We never Lynch her D1 ever

This is proveably false from the games I linked

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=76303 [lynched]
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77661 [endgamed]

[DrDolittle]

i meta'd shoshin's normals briefly, and her play is pretty curt compared to previous (both scum and town), which might indicate a lack of time these days. I didn't find anything particularly salient, other than town-shoshin is more likely to follow up with unanswered q's (sample size 2), and scum-shoshin is more interested in trivialities (sample size 1). Given this, I think I more scum lean shoshin this game due to meta?

Perhaps, but it isnt where we are lynching today.

Radiant should be nicer about that too though. I have seen much worse ICs than Aura is playing, depending how flips go of course. At least hes actually following along and not apathetic due to the shit role IC is.

@DDL

yeah but I'm down with morality's reaction test, not on shoshin, but on certain 3rd parties

[DrDolittle]

you say, hey drdo bring me some objective evidence. i bring you objective evidence. now you say this objective evidence is crap. at least give some reasoning behind why its crap

[DrDolittle]

You haven't shown me any examples of UNANSWERED questions that I DID NOT FOLLOW UP ON AS SCUM. Please prove that there was a MEANINGFUL difference between my TOWN/SCUM games, which is what you claimed earlier.

yawn. posting in caps doesn't make you right.
2042 -you have post 463 asking to answer your q
2012 - you have 214, 589 and 650
2010 - nothing.
This game, nothing. And you posted so many questions, I doubt everyone has answered everything.

[DrDolittle]

This game, nothing. And you posted so many questions, I doubt everyone has answered everything.

since I need to do all the work anyways, an example is when you asked RCE what's his thoughts on me. RCE never responded, and you never followed up.

[DrDolittle]

Kinda think DDL is a woofin

exhibit: rc analysis on me being scum

[DrDolittle]

saudade never follows up on your Post #112 in your sscum game, and you never call him out on it. Plus it's common sense that scum is less involved in trying to hunt scum and only puts on a facade of caring.

[DrDolittle]

I made my top scumread who I was voting replace out in fear.

the guy lit replaced out cause he felt the game was clique-y... anything more and you are twisting the narrative to suit you.

[DrDolittle]

Just making a comment that I'm really enjoying this game and glad I've replaced in but probably engaging tomorrow!

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: DrDolittle

I think this is my most confident wolfread that isn't Morality.

Missed the last 10 pages but big oof

[DrDolittle]

So I know my alignment. and I know rc should be generally pretty good at hunting for scum. So the fact that hes so wrong on my slot means hes more likely scum pushing for a mislynch

[DrDolittle]

I'm shifting him back to null. I liked some of his posts 10 pages ago before I went offline

[DrDolittle]

Don't try and get on my good side after I just called you scum lol.

What good side? What I miss

[DrDolittle]

Idk what's going on. Will catch up tomorrow

[DrDolittle]

Is cult of athena an alt?

[DrDolittle]

Ok. I just needed to know that. Cause you said she had a 90 percent town win rate and that's strange that a goon even played 10 games

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: rce

[DrDolittle]

I think hes more likely scum and your last couple of posts have been entertaining

[DrDolittle]

Tldr, reads are inauthentic and inoffensive. Theres barely any follow up in the reads, and strangely almost no movement despite lots of action happening (from what I recall)

[DrDolittle]

It's just not town.

[DrDolittle]

The game is progression and town is uncertain. Reads should move relatively continuously as town, and players rigid reads are scum trying for consistency. Its unnatural

[DrDolittle]

And which reads are inauthentic?

What constitutes inoffensive?

Don't throw out bs and pray it sticks.

Inoffensive reads are those where people go and say oh ok I understand move along. That's lit your reads all game. Theres nothing much to comment about it, it's extremely generic and could be construed as scum coating.

Your reads are inauthentic bbecause theres no substance behind iit. For example you dont have anything on why I'm scum other than some omgus or creddible reasons on why vedith is town despite him doing nothing.

[DrDolittle]

What changes should he have had that didn't happen

Yes it does. Some changes should happen, if any. The fact that theres nothing for the past N pages is of concern

[DrDolittle]

Are you being difficult with me on purpose because I called you out on not following up on stuff as scum?

[DrDolittle]

Imo this game is being played (not by me) at an extremely high level and sorting anyone is pretty hard. At least I'm constantly shifting my reads on people as I'm reading. I have a hard time believing that RCE is so confident with his reads that they dont change at all.

[DrDolittle]

This isn't a game where people just banter for N pages after obv scum is lynched and is waiting for flips. Context matters.

[DrDolittle]

Let's flip the table. Why do you think RCE is town.

[DrDolittle]

You have a swing of morality from conf town in 253 to scum in 400 something

[DrDolittle]

Other than that nothing as far as I can recall

[DrDolittle]

. He hasn't really cased CoA and I don't think he can get her lynched today so he's debasing reads on her in case there's an opening to Lynch later. The same way he's debasing shoshin/I. At the very least it's to break up our townreads on each other.

Wot I just was asking why people thought coa was town. Man i cant go around casing everyone what do you think I am a neet?

[DrDolittle]

This Poe doesn't come from scum, I guess you could argue snow isn't in it because RC backed him early. In Vedith's case in relation to his play so far it would make more sense to snipe the easy lynches. It might be vain but I don't consider myself an easy lynch and CoA being thrown in puts a flag up. There's an angle to push with Tarkus/Roomy having 1 scum that Vedith avoided altogether so putting them at the end of the Poe only really makes sense to me if they are BOTH scum with him.

Why doesnt this apply to me

[DrDolittle]

I never want to hear how good you three are at town ever again when I flip. Your town block sucks and your reads suck.

[DrDolittle]

I'm going to post today but guys I think rc is might be town

[DrDolittle]

I never want to hear how good you three are at town ever again when I flip. Your town block sucks and your reads suck.

Do you think good players are never wrong about anything?

Quickly, no, good players can be wrong. But when 3 proclaimed best good players on the site are wrong about the same thing I get doubtful

[DrDolittle]

I think the coordination about future and making future plans and all that are a bit farfetched but I respect the meta CoA read

[DrDolittle]

Honestly I'm surprised at the strong pushback over CoA slot. I was told it's very town. I have it at at most null. But Shoshin, RCE and vedith are all pushing back there.

[DrDolittle]

Why are you fighting a lynch on DDL?

What's you're thoughts on Boats town read on me?

[DrDolittle]

Hmmm.
Top of head
RCE
CoA
Creature
Tarkus (that's you)
DDL
Me

VOTE: Tarkus

We should go with this instead of RCE.

Mmm...

[DrDolittle]

Is boats purely scum by association or which posts ping as well??

[DrDolittle]

I'm lean town ing on morality rn for the record.

[DrDolittle]

What's the votecount

[DrDolittle]

I can see bnh scum but remind me why morality pings you again? Is it the hamm3r?

[DrDolittle]

Isnt morality and bnh pushing each other

[DrDolittle]

Wheres muh flip

[DrDolittle]

All these reads on are independent of nsg flip right?

[DrDolittle]

I
same q to BnH too on his rc morality yellow reads

[DrDolittle]

i have no idea what nsg filps

I thought it was 90 to 100 dude

I rly hope it's still at least 80

[DrDolittle]

Morality remind me do you scumread rc

[DrDolittle]

RCE how are your reads going? Still morality creature and me?

[DrDolittle]

I think Morality/creature/third is likely.

NO

JESUS FUCKING CHFRIST

LOl, yeah, Creature and I are both town, silly

Why is that unbelievable from your prespective

[DrDolittle]

Gotcha.

[DrDolittle]

these are literally the worst associatives that i have ever seen

Can u give me a tldr on why?

[DrDolittle]

So if morality flips town (yes I know you think he wont) then bnh is clear?

[DrDolittle]

I'm ok with the plan (tm)

[DrDolittle]

its not morality AND bnh. at most 1/2

[DrDolittle]

I think the second is in Vedith/Creature, with more lean on Vedith

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: Johnny

[DrDolittle]

Vork is still town.

[DrDolittle]

But I agree with you rc that it's more likely bnh over morality

[DrDolittle]

Look at all the posts COA snakes regarding Shoshin.

aren't they just posts that call shoshin town. RCE's posts are no different.

[DrDolittle]

wonder if I can call rc conf town now

[DrDolittle]

In the same vein what did shoshin do to earn town read from RC and RCE so early in the game?
If town is also doing this it means its not ai

[DrDolittle]

yeah I'm pretty sure morality is close-to conf town at this point

[DrDolittle]

If I'm interpreting RCE's role correctly, its useless unless he target's scum. By his end of day post, it was very clear that Morality is his biggest scum read, and a 70/80 percent likelihood of targeting.

The fact RCE died, and Morality didn't should suggest that Morality is town.

[DrDolittle]

+ I town read all these ego-morality posts, where he says "LOL if you know me I don't do this as scum".

[DrDolittle]

I think shoshin is not scum. Scum!shoshin does not off RCE with high likelihood

[DrDolittle]

why not

[DrDolittle]

1 for 1 trade is always worth it

[DrDolittle]

Look at how COA always subtly threw a Shoshin town read into her posts while making sure to have the focus of the post elsewehre.

Shoshin knew COA was the traitor, and that heavily shows during RC’s push on COA, which implies they aren’t both scum.

RC even gets upset because there’s “No Reasons Shoshin shouldnt see COA as scum”

After COA flipped scum, that line rings more true than ever. Thing is, Shoshin DID know COA was scum. Shoshin even said that COA “wasn’t the best lynch for today” rather than explaining she didn’t think she was scum.

That requires the condition that shoshin guessing COA is traitor? More likely situation is just shoshin just townreads COA and really thinks there's a better lynch?

[DrDolittle]

Hmm, I didn't read the role carefully enough. He probably used it on one of Morality/Boats/Creature.

yup and I think its morality

[DrDolittle]

although im not sure since he might think its better to use it on a deepwolf

[DrDolittle]

since he could have thought morality might get vigged or somthing like that

[DrDolittle]

is boats eddie cane?

[DrDolittle]

A world where RC is scum means bnh and morality and creature are all town, and vedith scum.

I don't think RC + vedith played scum theater

[DrDolittle]

I don't know how to analyze morality's comments on shoshin's posts. I don't see anything, but I do concede you're a much much better intent reader than me.

[DrDolittle]

And if Morality isn't Ascetic, he is probably conf town because RCE's role always targets your top scum read - there is no incentive not to.
@Morality, hard claim Ascetic or not please.

if you think your top scum read is getting vigg'd or if you think your top scum read is ascetic.

[DrDolittle]

I think I'm going to out information. Probably time anyways

[DrDolittle]

Here's the members of a nbhd: RCEnigma, Creature, CultOfAthena, JohnnyEnglish, DrDolittle, Tarkus

[DrDolittle]

That's also the list that Vedith wrote out, and that's why it seemed like names drawn out of a hat

[DrDolittle]

I think Vedith/Johnny is the bad guy (TM) in this hood. The idea is that the hood serves a dual purpose of traitor being able to communicate with scum partner, but not too much in a too easy overt way.

[DrDolittle]

the size of the hood, and the fact that CoA repeated wanted to dispell the idea that there are scum in the hood strongly makes me think there's a goon there

[DrDolittle]

Creature is there anything important from the hood?

[DrDolittle]

first do you guys agree at least that there's another goon in the hood

[DrDolittle]

Ah fuck me

[DrDolittle]

I messed up.

[DrDolittle]

I messaged mod. Will not post anymore till this is resovled