Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[Aurathebirb]

Hi its me your town

Its probably a good thing since I haven't played mafia in forever

RCEnigma reminds me of me as scum making awkward early posts

Leaning town on Boats and Cowbells

Was Morality's claim tongue in cheek? I can't tell

[Aurathebirb]

I'm inclined to believe that the claim is NAI but I don't really like that Morality pointed his own actions as being NAI.

[Aurathebirb]

You think his self awareness is scummy?

Not so much self awareness as his need to point it out.

Like when you're scum sometimes you think "why are you scumreading me for that? There are plenty of valid reasons to scumread me, but that certainly isn't one of them!"

This is only a slight tick, its a bit early to have certainty about anyone's alignment. Except mine of course.

[Aurathebirb]

YellowSnow seems obviously scummy. Maybe a little too obvious if anything. Could be a result of phoneposting? But yeah inclined to agree that the first post and others look bad. Idk how I feel about them missing that I was confirmed. Feel like a scum wouldn't want to ask about that without checking first.

Inclined to think Vorkuta is town right now.

Feel like Vedith is more likely to be town though, based on the fact that he seems to be making little effort not to say things that can be used against him.

Do you think Yellow is town?

No idea

VOTE: Vedith
Because as much as I love Saitama, you seem to be WAAAY too preoccupied with what/how other people think of you.

Should I claim?

Tarkus maybe a slight town lean, think he's being honest. Also would say that its unlikely he's scum with Morality, based on his posts referring to him.

Shosin's done more voting than talking. Is that normal?

the vorkuta comment is in no way backed up by anything concrete, I just wasn’t entirely sold on his vedith vote. seemed a little left field

Do you disagree with his characterization of vedith? I thought it was pretty accurate

meh, I don’t disagree per se, maybe I’m just thinking that way cause I have a tiny townread on vedith. anyways like I said I have basically nothing behind this besides gut / something in his tone. for one day of posting he is a hair hair below null for me, that’s all I wanted to say.

I thought this was interesting, but I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. It just seemed like a weird explanation.

I think I already said I was scum reading RCEnigma but yeah that's still happening. Couldn't think of how to phrase my reasoning. Maybe a tone thing?

Other RC seems ok

Idk how I feel about Boats claim that Morality was caught lying. It looks pretty explainable to me which is why its concerning. Kind of cautious there now.

VOTE: RCEnigma

Gonna put that there for now

[Aurathebirb]

I feel left out of all this meta-gaming

I kinda don't want to lynch boat just because I'm sort of 50/50 and keeping someone like that around has its uses

[Aurathebirb]

Did Cowbell ever explain the town read on Snow? I don't get that tbh

My gut feeling about CoA is weird but I don't really have a good reasoning.

[Aurathebirb]

Don't know Creature but those posts look scum sided or at least very strong mislynch bait

Keeping him alive could have its advantages I suppose, but I'd rather not

I would like to hear who Creature thinks is scum just for funsies though

[Aurathebirb]

Gotta sympathize with roomy a bit there

Can't say I think he's scum for that. Or anything else that he said.

Kind of inclined to ignore Creature here

Yellow doesn't it seem a bit much to say that Vedith and Creature are a likely scum team? I mean I think if I'm scum and I have a scum team member who I consider a lost cause I'm going to do everything in my power to avoid looking close to them. I expect scum would attack creature here, so my question is whether attacks are genuine or not. Of course, that assumes Creature actually flips red and isn't just allowing himself to become bait.

In particular, Cowbell's interactions with Creature look the most S/S to me. I can recall players in the past reacting almost exactly how he is to someone like Creature, who is, "a lost cause". The only reason I'm hesitant is that it seems consistent with Cowbell's style so far.

Also when people say RC which RC do they mean? Like sometimes its hard to judge from context

[Aurathebirb]

When there's one good scum player and one bad scum player and they interact in thread, you get a tinge of

"My son, I am disappointed in you"

[Aurathebirb]

Oh I didn't mean as in not lynching him. It just doesn't seem productive to focus on him.

I'll admit though that I have slight doubts

can you take me at my word or take one of the other players who knows me better at their word that that is a terrible way to read me?

Probably not

[Aurathebirb]

I had a town read on roomy but my read on drd has just a teaspoon of scum juice

Drd, what u think of ur predecessor?

[Aurathebirb]

I mean its a little odd to immediately hard scum read someone and then later be the one pushing for him not to die

Probably too weird actually

Idk

I do think its neat to see people analyze the people they replace but I guess we can't have nice things

[Aurathebirb]

Still think Vedith is town

He has a certain style of posting and I think that's gotta be NAI

But the things I've specifically noticed point to town

[Aurathebirb]

Would anyone be interested in a tasty yellow or cowbell wagon

[Aurathebirb]

I mean I really don't like to be this reliant on meta-reads. So I'm probably going to take everything that people say in that area with a grain of salt.

Any scum player is going to attempt to replicate their town meta as scum. And the fact that Creature's scum meta has been labeled as very obviously different from his town meta means that he can easily fake being town if he wants to. (That said, see below)

Similarly, I'm hesitant about any entirely meta based reads of players who are considered to be very good. Someone in that category of player would know what kind of things they are likely to be town read for. I'd be more curious to know if anyone looks like they're playing to their town meta, but in a way that looks forced.

I'm not for policy lynching anyone. I don't even know who would constitute a policy lynch.

---

Upon reread of Creature's ISO, I'm inclined to lean towards him being town right now.

*waits the perfect time to make a come in*

*can't decide the best way to make the first post*

In particular the way Creature enters the thread is not consistent with what I'd expect from scum. It takes a very long time for him to offer a reason for his previous absence, and he doesn't really defend himself when pushed.

Say one name, I'll try to make atleast 5 lines (or 5 posts) about them.

Asking for other people to do part of the work for him leans towards town sided for me as well.

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I changed my mind on Creature and RC being a possible S/S, that doesn't make as much sense now imo.

Creature's other posts seem slightly town like. I don't really see anything that sticks out as very scummy either. While I'm not very confident about my town read on him I also don't think its a good idea to lynch him at the present time.

If anyone still wishes to push Creature, I'd like to hear a less meta reason for why its a good idea. The reasoning of the main argument against him seems quite flimsy.

[Aurathebirb]

In contrast with Creature there is Yellowsnow. I think that this is my preferred lynch, unless I see anything in my reread that gives me pause.

Wow I haven't posted and I'm already being scumread. A lot of Pages for me To read.

His first post has already been pointed out as scummy, don't think I need to elaborate much there.

I can feel the love.

In particular I don't see this response to being pushed so quickly out of the gate coming from town.

shoshin wheres ur scumread so i can lynch them with you

VOTE: radiantcowbells

Seems forced, almost looks like he put out a vote just so nobody would call him out for not having one.

If Marality and Boats are scum, and the third scum is roomy or Vedith that puts town in a pretty good spot.

I particularly don't like this post and I think its definitely worth an explanation.

Are mods more likely to replace non posting scum than town?

Weird out of place questions really make me think scum. They sort of seem like a scum player who couldn't think of anything else to say and didn't want to come out aggressive. Look at YellowSnow's ISO and see how many of his posts are these kinds of questions. It reminds me of the first few times I played as scum and didn't know what to do.

I agree town is in a good spot right now. We just need to keep our eyes on the ball.

Gross

And...the obligitory OMGUS vote.

if this doesn't confirm me as town I don't know what does. My vote's staying on Morality the rest of the day. (unless something significant changes).

Slight pause on this, doesn't seem like a scum post but still overall a net negative read.

Considering switching my vote to creature but kinda making me queasy because he did this exact same thing last game and was town.

I like to learn from my mistakes.

He hasn't done anything to help us though.

Don't like the inclusion of the middle sentence.

-------

@Boats and Hoes

Wouldn't rely on that too much, but fair for now.

Moderate scumread: Yellow, Cowbells
Light scumread: RCE
Not sure/ Need to reexamine: Boats, Tarkus, DrDo, CoA
Light townread: Creature, Shosin
Moderate townread: Vedith, Vorkuta, Morality

I definitely need to reread some stuff, might read the whole thread again tbh.

[Aurathebirb]

Ehh, scum doesn't always eagerly jump on the mislynch. A lot of time scum are the ones who hesitate so they can get points when the mislynch bait flips town. The "learn from mistakes" thing is tone related. It just seems very in your face. Its inclusion in that context set off a buzzer for me.

Yeah, RC's posts last night didn't move him towards town. If anything, went a bit the other way.

Vedith is not trying to appear town. Morality isn't trying to appear town.

Yellow and Cowbells are. At least, from what I see.

Cowbells just seems like he's trying to guilt people into town reading him.

[Aurathebirb]

Roomy's reasons for replacing out seems understandable if you look at them from the perspective of a newbie. I mean this is really a terrible game for anyone who doesn't know all the players. Or maybe its a really good game and MS is just a bad site. Who knows.

Concerned that Boats is trying to buddy me a bit here. Meh

And the idea that I'm underwhelming in this game is bullshit. I haven't been underhwelming. I made my top scumread who I was voting replace out in fear. Just because I don't post as much as others doesn't mean my posts themselves are underhwelming. I've managed to get townreads from the stronger townies in the game (e.g. RC, COA, Enigma), while pushing my reads to the extent I wanted them pushed.

I'm town reading this post, as odd as it may look. Especially the bolded statement.

Anyone still thinks YellowSnow is scum?

heck yeah

If you think Shoshin is almost always town more than any other player than statistically that is poor logic.

Why do you always misrepresent what everyone is saying

I’m not up for lynching. You can try, but you’re just going to get yourself lynched.

*teleports behind u*

nothing personnel kiddo

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Oh god ego battle between Morality and Cowbells what anime did I walk into

Yellow is too visibly close to Cowbells now, I can't see that as S/S

I've been reminded of the reasons I quit playing mafia. Why does every mafia player have an ego the size of a planet

Gonna look at Tarkus and the other middle of the road people

[Aurathebirb]

I'm opposed to a Morality lynch, yeah.

Would like to relook at the possibility of Enigma.

Willing to consider Tarkus but I'd like to look at him a bit first.

[Aurathebirb]

Rereading the thread now, I'm starting to get a bad feeling about Boats

I like Vorkuta's opinions, but not reading them any particular way right now

[Aurathebirb]

Vedith and Morality's interactions here make it seem like they aren't a scumteam. Maybe that was the intention though? I'm not ruling it out.

Morality's continued referencing his own alignment is driving me nuts but I think its town sided.

Boats I'm finding difficult to read. Half of me says town the other half says scum.

I’m an ascetic Miller.

One of those are true.

are we policy lynching this today, or day before lylo?

VOTE: Morality

Like stuff like this I could interpret either way. Early posts by Boats are quite aggressive, but not in a way that makes me think he's mislynch pushing.

Re: Cowbells -

I disagree. I’m NAI at best. If anything, I think I’m townie than most people. People just like to scum read the guy who self analyzes and controls the game flow early before actual reads are set in.

Stuff like this makes Morality seem like he's not trying to appear town and is in fact genuinely town.

I am unironically treating Shoshin as conftown unless she does something major to make me reconsider

then stop voting town

I'm actually starting to consider whether I might actually want Boats lynched. He does give an impression of being forced.

Vedith's posts have little substance but that's not neccesarily a scum tell. In my experience this is more of a playstyle than anything. Nothing pointing to scum for me.

Comma, equal. Anything productive to post? Maybe a better vote or at least reasons for your vote that aren't just wrong?

This post here (directed at Yellow) is furthering my bad feelings about Boats

tbh I've been ignoring everything morality posts until d2
what is the lie

Roomy definitely looked like town

@Shoshin

I'm assuming the vote is a response to me calling Shoshin town without any real explanation behind it so it looks like pocketing. I'm questioning your read on me the same way Yellow, though I haven't done so with a vote.

Its TOO smooth. This is a politician's answer.

I think I already said I was scum reading RCEnigma but yeah that's still happening. Couldn't think of how to phrase my reasoning. Maybe a tone thing?

It's cool, I get this often honestly. There are players that read what I'm doing and there are players that read what I'm saying. I think Teacher and Varsoon are the only players I've come across that can pin point what I'm doing. Everyone else falls into the latter category.

Like butter

Considering Sho didn't really put that much pressure on Enigma I don't really see how this can be strongly town read.

Gonna finish that reread later, but wanted to look at ISOs. They're less reliable without the context but its hard to form an opinion on someone like Tarkus without one.

---

Tarkus' early posts don't really say much.

ah you noticed me!

Don't like this response to pressure from Cowbells

Ok. Why are you voting morality?

This line of questioning looked half baked

I don't really see much else. Nothing that makes me feel with any confidence that he's more likely to be town than not.

---

I'm more confident in DrDos slot being town now.

Vedith looks like chill town. But some of his posts do look town readable.

Nah I'm not lynching Creature.
Reason too weak.

Actually Creature might be Scum.
There s guaranteed Scum within RCE, Creature, CoA, DDL and Tarkus.
Maybe even two, but I'm sure only one.

I'm helping \o/

This progression doesn't make that much sense from scum pov

--------------

Lynch in [Boats, Yellow, Enigma, Tarkus] preferred

Changed my mind on a Cowbells for today. Not a good d1. Should be reexamined on a later day

[Aurathebirb]

I meant to preface that post with a statement saying that I was rereading from the start and give context oops

[Aurathebirb]

Aura, how reliable are your reads?

Can be good or bad

I sometimes miss obvious things but have a history of reading scum that other people thought were definite town

[Aurathebirb]

(happy cake day seal guy)

I would vastly prefer an RCE lynch over CoA. That may be implied by the fact that I have my vote still on RCE. Its also less information friendly, but that's less important than reads.

DrDo looks pretty townie to me still. At least I have no reason to think otherwise yet.

I think BnH's activity drop is NAI but I have a slight scum lean on him now.

[Aurathebirb]

I don't actually scum read CoA (kind of 50/50) but the reaction to this particular lynch looks weird to me. Nothing that suggests this is a mislynch.

Considering RC is basically staking his reputation in this game I'd expect scum to be interested in capitalizing on that. Taking down two strong players at once would be a juicy treat.

If this is wrong then I think it'll be pretty easy to figure out at least one scum.

VOTE: unvote
VOTE: CultofAthena

[Aurathebirb]

Incidentally I'm also changing my read on Tarkus to town

[Aurathebirb]

uwu

what the votes at

[Aurathebirb]

So we're in twilight then

[Aurathebirb]

uwu guess I should post in this

Hopefully less to read now at least

I need some coffee

Feel like looking at CoA's posts mostly, and I guess look if anyone acted in a way that would imply they knew about a traitor.

Spoiler:

I know who you are Boon

And then I got my role pm.

Side note, I like how we’re not voting. I’m totally down to not have an RVS this game, and just start voting when it’s time to vote.

No.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

scumclaim

VOTE: Shoshin

Good. Radiant's obviously town.

VOTE: Morality

Nevermind she's town

So why are you voting her?

RCEnigma and Vedith lean scum. Morality lean scum + needs to die, so more votes here please

These are all pretty bad. Especially the second one is such a flimsy question to ask someone. I don't feel like there's a real depth of thought here, which actually does make me hesitate on calling it scumposting. The only reason I can see up to this point for scumreading Vedith is the "I was scared of getting a vote on me". The RCEnigma scumread for not voting seems similarly level 0. It's just... none of those things are scummy, and this account pings alt a lot harder than it pings "newbie who scumreads the most basic things".

Scumlean.

I do think this post reads bad for Boats. Wouldn't really read it one way or the other based on it being the first real post by CoA. But it just seems like CoA isn't trying to get Boats into real trouble.

CoA is particularly harsh on Boats in other posts. But again, not in a way that suggests CoA actually wants him lynched. I'd suggest others take a look at the Boats - CoA interactions.

those words are put together but i don't think they actually add up to anything

what's your read on me and what's your read on morality

No real read on either of you yet as far as I've read.

I think this interaction looks good from an RC perspective.

CoA reads Vorkuta as town. Doesn't really justify that much, which inclines me to believe that Vork leans town.

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Athena what do I do to make this a game that you want to invest your time and energy into?

Just let me do my thing.

VOTE: roomy

I played scum with yellow in a recent game AMA

Um... what's your read on him? You don't seem to actually say it despite making a comment like 286.

---

Interested to hear about the roomy scumread, RC. His entrance has a few posts that ping town but I'm hesitant to take that to townread him.

Vote: Tarkus

Is this odd? I mean it kind of looks it but I'm not sure.

---

Interactions with YS fairly null. And YS hasn't stopped doing the main thing people scum read him for so I think he's town now.

COA, why are you voting Tarkus? Do you find any similarities between his play here and the recent game you played where he was scum?

~Reasons~.

To be serious, yes. That last game he lurked / skated through – although I intended to push him multiple times throughout the game, townies doing outrageous things consistently prevented him from ever truly being scrutinized. I don't intend to let the same thing happen again when he's playing fairly similarly and fairly scummy.

I'm gonna go with no for now.

CoA moves off Boats later on.

Pretty much caught up.

Preferred vote today is DDL or Tarkus. Vedith I don't consider a bad vote, but I don't really know how to read him.

I think CoA would have genuinely accepted a Tarkus lynch? But its also listed with DDL, who is known town. Feels like it would've been natural to put a scummy in these 3.

Also noticeably, the Boats scum read has mysteriously vanished. Was this ever brought up?

I'm not asking you to sheep me, RC – you don't have to drop your Vedith vote. If

you're

confident in something there then I want to hear it exactly

because

I don't really know how to read Vedith.


Boats – is this another one of your "experimental alts", then?

Think Vedith is town, but not confident.

Have good reason to vote Boats here. Unless I missed something. But he does look like someone pretending to be town. Just taking the easy opinions on things.

I slightly question why Creature was killed? Need to think about that a bit.

Regarding RCE's rolecard - what does informed mean?

I do agree that Morality was the most likely target. And it would make sense for a player with that role to make it obvious who they were going for.

Having trouble keeping track of all these replacements.

[Aurathebirb]

VOTE: Boats and Hoes

Hi

[Aurathebirb]

Nice omgus

Seems like a pretty legit reasoning to me.

[Aurathebirb]

Who exclusively town reads scum buddies? Thatd just make games easy

[Aurathebirb]

Tarkus who was CoA's biggest scum read? She actually tried to kill him sort of

Boats did try to mislynch you when he had the means to push you. He can't now.

I don't see the flip flopping RC did near the end of day one as very scum aligned

[Aurathebirb]

Day 2 probably not too interesting. Idk what the important bits would be. Probably after the CoA lynch starts.

I neglected to mention it, but I did have another reason to find the Boats - CoA interactions weird.

I think CoA is town

Page 18 has some weird shit going on I s2g

I do think Vorkuta might be worth looking at, now that I think about it. The MOR most town read person has turned out to be scum before in my games...

[Aurathebirb]

We should probably settle the Morality / SS thing before going after other targets

Although idk how ascetic works

[Aurathebirb]

I agree that Vorkuta is likely scum. Weird thing is I don't think anyone has ever stated a reason why he's town, despite it being almost a universal read

[Aurathebirb]

those words are put together but i don't think they actually add up to anything

what's your read on me and what's your read on morality

No real read on either of you yet as far as I've read.

Wondering about this one

[Aurathebirb]

No interference from this bird

I'll post something tomorrow I promise

[Aurathebirb]

What are the odds that SS saw Moralities troll claim on day one and took it seriously?

More solid on Vorkuta as scum now. Probably should think about associations and stuff too I guess but eh

[Aurathebirb]

Dunn woulnd't be terrible tho

[Aurathebirb]

UNVOTE: Boats and Hoes
VOTE: Vorkuta

Yeah I'm fairly good on this