Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[Flavor Leaf]

I forgot one failure of town: The cop checking a claimed Miller/Ascetic.

I mean, to be fair, it was a fake claim.

SOMETHING SMART!!! I DID IT!!! I won a page 1 Miller fake claim and got past a guilty!!!

[Flavor Leaf]

???

"against rc"?

the mod modkilled obvtown when i had both of you caught how arrogant and stupid do you have to be to claim a win against me when the game was 4v9 and you only won due to a modkill

To be fair, we played in a way where we were totally fine having you scum read us.

We were going for you the day DDL was modkilled. DDL was my biggest support. You replacing our nearly compromised the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

We lost the Shoshin mislynch. We were playing to the players not the conf town due to replacement.

This game got 10 times harder as soon as you two replaced out.

The mod kill did help scum more, but the replace outs that it ensued, when it was actually a solid call, while upsetting, wasn’t.

[Flavor Leaf]

How?

I was never getting lynched, and you already had a pretty deep wagon going on you.

Had 2 more people voted you, we’d have gotten you, and then Shoshin the next day.


However, I do agree, 9:4 is bleh.

[Flavor Leaf]

And that was our mislynch pool for Day 2, afterwards the pool changes.

[Flavor Leaf]

if it makes you feel better to claim that you think you could have mislynched you there feel free to do so.

It’s not a matter if I feel if it were to happen, it just was a likely possibility. Had Vedith slot voted you, that was essentially you getting lynched, because we would’ve only needed 1 more to just end the day with you.

We were also setting up a positioning for Day 2.

We have about 28 pages in the mafia thread. We weren’t unprepared

[Flavor Leaf]

PRior to SS replacing in, I was never getting lynched here either, though. We literally played around you, RC.


SS, yeah, I knew you knew I was scum. It was kind of the worst spot i’ve ever felt, Shoshin’s replace out made that slot so townie.

I literally posted to Shoshin like page 3 i looked forward to 1v1ing her, so to think this game wasn’t going exactly how scum wanted it to (besides COA traitor flip obviously)

We have 3 votes, RC, that’s as good as you being L-2. And then easy peasy make the case only like 1 or 2 scum on the wagon. Yeah. Especially because Shoshin would have been a distraction

[Flavor Leaf]

can i have opinions from the players on whether this setup belonged in the normal queue

I say no. Announced or unannounced 9:4 is just too steep of a ratio to ever be appropriate for a normal.

This. And the roles that do give town power just suck to play against as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

rofl

scum died d1

scum would have died d2.

Rarely does that happen in normals.

And our side had more support than you did at the time.

DDL/Tarkus/Vorkuta were all in position to be won over. DDL was won over.

And Creature was already on you.

Add the 3 of us, you weren’t anywhere close to getting us.

I wanted you to tunnel me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think we would have won faster had you stayed in, but more pages, but you replaced out to help town :shrug:, and chances got higher after that, but still didn’t help.

[Flavor Leaf]

More chance of us mislynching you there than you real lynching us. Just because you had correct scum reads doesn’t mean we were getting lynched.

I literally play scum in a way where “I don’t care if you know I’m scum, you can’t lynch me” kind of way.

[Flavor Leaf]

both of you have egos that far outstrip your abilities.

just relax, take your ill gotten win, and know that you're gonna be torn to shreds when you have the misfortune to roll scum against me again.

You barely squeaked by me the last time you were scum against me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Which was so long ago, right?

Yeah, that was the last time I was lynched.

[Flavor Leaf]

And my Morality scum game is vastly different from my Boon or FL one. I nearly lose all my Morality scum games.

And you apparently don’t ever survive the me.


Eddie and I are 2-0 on you as the scum team now

[Flavor Leaf]

NK15 essentially is doing to this guidelines of the Normal queue what my BooneyToonz were before. His last game was pretty crazy too. The last game wasn’t as scum sided, though. 9:4’s just rough.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk how the moron comment helps your cause. Then you just keep getting 1-upp’d by a moron.

[Flavor Leaf]

uhm.

your booneytoonz games were far more reasonable than this.

Fair. Yeah, I wouldn’t have done 9:4. I have a tendency to lean towards town sided setups.

[Flavor Leaf]

I said the modkill helped scum, replace outs helped town. Just because I said I lost my biggest supporter in DDL doesn’t mean that that still didn’t help us

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm just gonna

not have this discussion with you

rc shoshin replace out definitely helps scum yes

Yeah, we considered you guys replacing out already a win over you guys for our own sakes.

This was a double win. SS as a whole was literally the most stressful thing I’ve felt in mafia in years

[Flavor Leaf]

I forgot one failure of town: The cop checking a claimed Miller/Ascetic.

I mean, to be fair, it was a fake claim.

SOMETHING SMART!!! I DID IT!!! I won a page 1 Miller fake claim and got past a guilty!!!

I'm glad you did it, but it doesn't really count for much because you were dodgy about it early on and also it was obviously bullshit

I did think you were ascetic for a while, hence the claim, but I eventually changed my mind but not the opinion that you were scum, so I kept it.

Yes, SS. Yours was better than mine! It still counts, though, haha

[Flavor Leaf]

Don’t worry, Dunn...I didn’t lynch you. I fell asleep before I could hammer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think he meant you get two mislynches without losing, which made DDL and Dunn.

DDL was a rough situation. It sucked for town, but he legit did quote like the entirety of COA’s neighborhood posts, which was quite a lot.

That could have severely affected the game. I understood the move, it just sucked to have happen.

[Flavor Leaf]

I caught 3/4 of your team D1 and your partner comes into postgame talking shit because a modkill on a confirmed town player took away two of our mislynches. Do you really think I'm the problem vector here?

Ankamius wasn’t my teammate

[Flavor Leaf]

We lost the Shoshin mislynch.

The idea that I'm ever mislynched this game is comically absurd. After Morality/Boats flip, I'm locktown & it's only a matter of time until we find last scum.

This game had a shitty mod, with an imbalanced setup, and a cruel & unnecessary modkill. I'm glad I replaced out even though me & RC would have steamrolled the scum had we stayed in.

We weren’t gonna flip.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not with this setup.

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys were both gonna be mislynched, and I stand by that. As does Boats. We were actively playing the game against you. It didn’t matter you knew we were scum. I let you guys in on it from the beginning. That covers me because it forces you guys to tunnel.

[Flavor Leaf]

You already almost died D1

You only didn't die D1 because your traitor was more obvscum than you are

You highly overrate your abilities. You are the fifth best scum player on MS and the people who are ahead of you bring a lot to the table that you don't.

Lol, I wasn’t going to die with Vorkuta, Tarkus, and Aura still in the game, alongside my partners.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's hilarious that caught scum think we were going to be mislynched.

Doesn’t matter if you know I’m scum if you can’t get me mislynched.

ScumRC can setup a mislynch late late game on townFlavor, but townRC doesn’t lynch ScumFlavor.

This game showed that despite how much I was tunneled, there was zero chance of me getting lynched.

You even had BOTH of my partners on me at one time, and that’s the closest you ever got me Day 1. Besides you two, there wasn’t anyone else going me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Morality thinks he had pocketed Vorkuta, Tarkus, and Aura? That happened after we replaced out, this guy is delusional.

False. I never pocketed Tarkus. I don’t need to pocket to get them to not vote me.

I also had Creature Day 1.

You guys literally had nobody on me besides my own partners.

[Flavor Leaf]

There was zero chance I was dying with you guys still in this game, simple as that.

You played into our hands exactly like we wanted you to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Say what makes you feel better about yourself.

I mean, I won, even if setup was unbalanced, and your slot was lynched.

Seems like you guys are the ones who are trying to make yourselves feel better.

If you think we were getting killed then replacing out you actively threw the game.

Haven’t died as scum since Team Mafia 2018, and before that I don’t even know how long.

It was not happening here.

Oh, you had RCEnigma day 1, but we killed him.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature expressly said that he was going to sheep me on my Morality scumread, lol...

Yeah, but Creature and I have a thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Petty whiny direction?

I would have said literally nothing outside of my capacity as a NRG member if FL didn't come in bragging about beating me in a game where I only hadn't solved the scumteam D1 because I didn't realize there were four of them

You locktowned YellowSnow...

[Flavor Leaf]

Both of you were scumread by both of me & RC. It wasn't a lone townie you were up against. It was two very strong townies with a strong record of getting their scumreads lynched. The idea that you survive both of us is very unlikely.

And that's not to mention the fact that we were widely townready by everyone except you two.

Why did that matter?

You weren’t beating me in a 1v2, once Boats came in, you weren’t winning that. We were scum, we had the advantage.

I flat out brought up from the beginning I looked forward to 1v1’ing you.

I literally planned on you guys coming after me from the beginning.

You guys literally acted exactly the way i wanted you too.

Doesn’t matter if you know we’re scum, if you can’t get me lynched. Otherwise you just give me cover, which you did.

[Flavor Leaf]

This game would have been a stomp for the town if we hadn't replaced out, despite the mod, the modkill, & the setup.

We stomped out 2 victories in one this game. Well, just this first part.

Once Something Smart got in this game, this game got increasingly more difficult.

SS was more of a threat than either of you.

That was literally the best chance at lynching me you guys had was by replacing out

[Flavor Leaf]

No, I would have made sure he didn’t get lynched.

Y’all say my ego’s bad when trying to project your own egos.

You weren’t getting us.


You just ran away from us. :shrug:

[Flavor Leaf]

FL

You should grow up

Always good to go back down and take it down to the person’s level you’re arguing with.

I have real life for that grown up shit

[Flavor Leaf]

You guys were the ones to run away, not me. I was having a great time going up against you two, but you guys can’t handle something like DDL modkill. If the roles were reversed, you know I would have stayed in. Talk about growing up when you clearly are the one misunderstanding.

You talk about “not being as good as you think you are”. Well, you aren’t either. You have time and time again tunneled me when we’re both town where I have called out the actual scum players and at the same time found you as town. I have survived it out as scum against you multiple times.

You talk about hypothetical situations without even seeing how the others play. I play a more social game than either of you, Hell, than the majority of this site. My style drastically differs from others, and your weakness shows directly from my play.

I feel like I get under your skin more than most people here, and the fact of the matter is, I can just 1-up you, and it’s not a level of player skill that causes that, it’s the fact that my style completely stops your momentum in game, and I feel that irritates you because you feel that it shouldn’t.

You can say all you want that “it’s what I need to make me feel better”, but I don’t need anything of that here. I won this game, end of story. Sure, it was scum sided. I didn’t choose for that. I just went for the victory.

I was scum and you knew it, but I wasn’t getting lynched. And I would have protected Boats, and he can hold his own well too.

It doesn’t matter as scum if people see you as scum, they just can’t see you as the right lynch.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean

My credibility isn't exactly in short supply these days

Neither is mine.

[Flavor Leaf]

I left the game to make a statement about the mod, not because I was afraid of losing.

Yeah, I feel that, actually.

For what it’s worth, I really enjoyed the challenge of going up against you, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just feel we’ve had this conversation before, and it just happens every time after I’ve won a game.

[Flavor Leaf]

No ones happy about the mod kill. It did benefit scum, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just feel we’ve had this conversation before, and it just happens every time after I’ve won a game.

I have never gone out of my way to start shit with you

It is indirectly, I’ll give it that. I’m just not one to let it slide, especially when I disagree with the sentiments spouted.

[Flavor Leaf]

You come into a game talking shit about me when I caught your whole team day one and then you and Eddie cane take the moral high ground acting like I'm trying to beat you down.

I never said you’re a bad town player.

In fact, I think you’re a better town player than you are a scum player. You have a tunnel tendency, and don’t put together accurate cases all the time, but that’s fine. It’s mafia, you aren’t supposed to. You have fantastic gut reads.

But you highly overestimate your ability to get me lynched off of just gut.

[Flavor Leaf]

The scumread on you wasn't based on gut.

Yours wasn’t because I wanted you to push me harder.

RC’s was. You can see RC even started flipping on me Day 2.

You did as well, but only for potential mechanical reasons you were giving it a chance.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's not me. I'm bottom 4.

no me

Apparently I’m top 5 from a player who drastically underestimates me, so I think I should take that as a compliment.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can think what you need to, but there’s absolutely zero proof or reason to believe based on our games together that you would have gotten one over on me here.

I play the social side of this game up more than most players.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh yeah, I’m by no means saying I played well this game.

But I wasn’t getting lynched prior to SS replacing in, who at this point has become the hardest fence for me to climb.

And yeah, Ank, my AtE/WIFOM game is pretty top notch.

[Flavor Leaf]

You should see me in face 2 face mafia.

[Flavor Leaf]

SS...I just wanna be town with you...

[Flavor Leaf]

And yeah, Ank, my AtE/WIFOM game is pretty top notch.

that

probably isn't something to be proud of

Disagree. You play to your strengths.

I build convincing cases when I’m scum. I build great setup spec WIFOM.

I bring in my ability to be genuine so I survive, and create that personal connection with players.

[Flavor Leaf]

You should see me in face 2 face mafia.

God... I would policy vote you every game.

SS...I just wanna be town with you...

Same!

I get lynched A LOT in face to face. Sometimes people will just go

“Let’s just lynch Danny.” (That’s me) and then I get quick lynched.

I can talk my way out of stuff similar that I do here, and paint things mechanical.

Life of a mafia player who’s a trained actor gotta use that empathy man

[Flavor Leaf]

Town me will just start trying to solve the game, though. I don’t just do that kind of play.

I’m rather strong at end game game solving.

And notice how you didn’t pay attention to me, I changed my style afterwards to get you to pay attention to me.

I just adapt to what i need to do as both alignments. I see mafia as like, I’m gonna make thisnplay, but he did this so it got countered hmm, alright, let’s try this!

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh yeah, I talk a lot.

That happens in face to face too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lycanfire’s lowkey the coolest person on the site.

Xtoxm, I’d rather we just roll scum together.

[Flavor Leaf]

Where were we caught? Someone knowing someone else is scum isn’t caught.

Day 2 you and Shoshin both made comments about me that implied I might not be scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

the salt

[Flavor Leaf]

Disagree. Objective facts showed we were beating you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t play well here in this game. My Morality account my scum games are always kinda just decent.

I also haven’t bragged at all at this end game. I’m literally just stating facts in defense of people downplaying my ability further.

I have a proven track record of being able to get through this kind of thing time and time again.

I understand that it is believed that even though you thought I was scum you thought you could get me lynched, but there is no proof or objective fact that you would have been able to.

Time and time again I’ve heard this from people from the 5 years I’ve been on site, and time and time again, I just kinda move on from it, playing my own game.

Mafia isn’t about just finding scum; it’s about being able to convince the masses that you are correct in direct counter to said scum. I could absolutely care less if you know I’m scum when I’m scum. Like, honestly, that doesn’t matter to me. I just have to play accordingly. It’s been like 2 or 3 years since I’ve been lynched prior to Day 4 as either alignment.

And with all this said, I’ve heard it, and then time and time again, I move on from situations like this, and I get again prove my ability.

The only thing that I brag about is how long it’s been since I’ve been mislynched, and that’s just more of a fact.

People have said that I am one of the most helpful scummates someone could possibly have because I believe in completely working with your team, and the proof is in the pudding. Sure, I don’t get along with my teammates some of the time. This game was rather difficult to work with my teammates as we didn’t see eye to eye on a lot of things, even to the point of frustration with each other.

I’m also the type to never talk down a player’s ability to play the game. Ever. I might bring up a player making a bad play, but I have never once brought people down and am consistently bringing up what people are good at rather than what they are not. I am one of the most supportive people on this site, even towards players who don’t necessarily care for me, but I have a nice group of people who enjoy playing with me, and I love playing with them as well. I don’t believe in talking down people’s skill levels.

You are a fantastic town player, Shoshin, and I got to see that this game.

You guys are trying to push this notion that I think this win was the end all be all best scum game ever, when that’s just not the case. This was, if anything, my worst played scum game in years, and one of the teams I’ve had the least team cohesion with. I still love being scum with Eddie and had fun with Snow despite that.

We literally had an advantage with the 4 scum, and the positioning, and the general public of the game, so if you want to talk about delusion, quit acting like it was some end all be all, the game was only won because the mod kill and the replace out, because while that hurt town, it was by no means town’s game by the time that all happened. Am I positive that we would have won the game? No. I’m not. That’s delusional, but I know it was likely at the time according to the plays we were choosing to make and the general public.

I don’t even recall a single post made this end game that could be considered as bragging. I’m confident in my ability as a mafia player, I think I’ve earned the ability to do so.

[Flavor Leaf]

And to the players talking about how bad a mod they thought NK15 was needs to stop. Was there some rough calls, late answers to questions, and general crazy setup? Yes.

DDL literally quoted an entire player’s ISO into the thread. If I’d have done that, you all would have torn me apart and say I should have mod killed.

And while that’s not the decision I would have made, it was the decision made nevertheless. I personally think besides the 4 scum, this was a rather cool setup.

It sucks that he was modkilled, but it happened. Move on. It’s just not worth getting hung up on.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can look at any games with players that I’ve had issues with, and generally I’m even complimenting their abilities as a player.

Mastina doesn’t understand my way of playing and doesn’t necessarily like the way I play, but I’ve gotten results and as town can rally a crowd up and get them to come along with me the same way I do as scum. (Albeit as town, I do make some rather questionable plays every now and then, but I digress.)

I don’t agree with the way she plays all the time either, but I recognize her ability to play Mafia, and I bring that up.

The amount of people who try to downplay me compared to the support I feel I give out is pretty ridiculous to me. This happens to me in person as well. It feels like people are upset that I am successful, but I put so much stock and effort into the things I do because that’s just the kind of person I am, and frankly I just feel like people see that, and just instantly think that I think that I’m better than them, but that’s just not the case. I’m confident because I’ve busted my ass to get this way, and I’ll be damned if people are going to discredit me because of shattered egos.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thank you for modding, Not Known 15.

I enjoy the style of games you create, and would join another, but hopefully not a 4 person mafia team in 13 players.

[Flavor Leaf]

Awesome neighborhood read. Ankamius is hilarious.

[Flavor Leaf]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78820

For the link, I guess

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow, I’m actually some kind of insane, aren’t I...?