Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[CultOfAthena]

Dang, and I had thought up such a great RVS vote and everything.

[CultOfAthena]

Spoiler:

I know who you are Boon

And then I got my role pm.

Side note, I like how we’re not voting. I’m totally down to not have an RVS this game, and just start voting when it’s time to vote.

No.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

scumclaim

VOTE: Shoshin

Good. Radiant's obviously town.

VOTE: Morality

Nevermind she's town

So why are you voting her?

RCEnigma and Vedith lean scum. Morality lean scum + needs to die, so more votes here please

These are all pretty bad. Especially the second one is such a flimsy question to ask someone. I don't feel like there's a real depth of thought here, which actually does make me hesitate on calling it scumposting. The only reason I can see up to this point for scumreading Vedith is the "I was scared of getting a vote on me". The RCEnigma scumread for not voting seems similarly level 0. It's just... none of those things are scummy, and this account pings alt a lot harder than it pings "newbie who scumreads the most basic things".

Scumlean.

[CultOfAthena]

Hi its me your town

Its probably a good thing since I haven't played mafia in forever

RCEnigma reminds me of me as scum making awkward early posts

Leaning town on Boats and Cowbells

Was Morality's claim tongue in cheek? I can't tell

Interested to hear your rationale on both of those townreads – quick check through your ISO didn't show any elaboration.

[CultOfAthena]

Oh yeah... Aura is an IC.

[CultOfAthena]

Spoiler:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10487889 townie here, voted fourth post

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10682792 townie, voted first post

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78318 scum here, didnt place a vote for a long time.

metadiving is very slow on mobile, but why havent you voted here? I'll finish this later. I have only looked at the 3 most recent decent length games so far, ignoring the meme game.


I looked at Vedith earlier and couldn't find not replace in games, but he barely voted in any of them and I saw a couple full games without a vote so I'll call it NAI for him.

Morality next.

Wow... terrible meta, no offense. The situations just aren't comparable. The scum game you point to he replaced in a decent part into the game as opposed to the town games where he started in basically RVS.

Did you look at this to support your theory of his not voting being scummy, or was it something that you already knew? If it was, why not open up with the meta "case"?

with no vote thrown down

I mean what can I say- this game doesn't have a traditional RVS so joking around is kind of out of the point.
I'd vote on an existing wagon to generate pressure but I doubt the players of this caliber would even blink at that.

And I'd really like to be able to you know- do something useful this game, so I'm asking all you cool kids to give me literally anything to go on.

Gut townreading this.

[CultOfAthena]

those words are put together but i don't think they actually add up to anything

what's your read on me and what's your read on morality

No real read on either of you yet as far as I've read.

Spoiler:

I know who you are Boon

And then I got my role pm.

Side note, I like how we’re not voting. I’m totally down to not have an RVS this game, and just start voting when it’s time to vote.

No.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

scumclaim

VOTE: Shoshin

Good. Radiant's obviously town.

VOTE: Morality

Nevermind she's town

So why are you voting her?

RCEnigma and Vedith lean scum. Morality lean scum + needs to die, so more votes here please

These are all pretty bad. Especially the second one is such a flimsy question to ask someone. I don't feel like there's a real depth of thought here, which actually does make me hesitate on calling it scumposting. The only reason I can see up to this point for scumreading Vedith is the "I was scared of getting a vote on me". The RCEnigma scumread for not voting seems similarly level 0. It's just... none of those things are scummy, and this account pings alt a lot harder than it pings "newbie who scumreads the most basic things".

Scumlean.

Not voting in your RVS posts points towards scum. That is not something that is relevant in a lylo decision, but for RVS when I'm trying to create content it is enough to prod on. I did my job and got the game out of RVS very quickly.

Do you actually believe that scum are more likely to not vote in RVS than town are?

[CultOfAthena]

I have only looked at the 3 most recent decent length games so far

And this is your answer, in a post you quoted.

I don't think this actually answers any question that I just asked.

[CultOfAthena]

starting to think my shoshin townread is too easy based on me being very quizzical of her ever, ever saying to lynch someone before creature/coa should post but meh

I can't wait to get to the part of the thread where someone calls me scum for not posting yet.

[CultOfAthena]

Well, reading some of this is definitely taking years off of my life span, so that's something I can see.

[CultOfAthena]

Spoiler:

have your vote down on somebody day 1/2

Literally only 3 people (boats=you, RC, and shoshin) have their votes cast as of now. Are the other people here not doing their "duty"?
No: they're playing their own game, and hopefully stuff will get done in due time.

Don't be intimidated Vorkuta, they aren't Demi gods.

You mean... they CAN'T predict my every move????

No I'd just like to get the bare minimum insight necessary for every player here to be able to somehow process them- like for example who is this RC fellow that has an entire meme copypasta dedicated to him, how does he play scum, and what do other people here have to say about his townplay?

And Vorkuta’s a strong player

Stop pocketing me REEEEEE

Townread affirmed.

I think 12 of the players here are strong players.

Ouch. No need to call me out like this.

Pretty sure Vorkuta's town, RC.

Towny pop in from Shoshin.

Spoiler:

No I'd just like to get the bare minimum insight necessary for every player here to be able to somehow process them- like for example who is this RC fellow that has an entire meme copypasta dedicated to him, how does he play scum, and what do other people here have to say about his townplay?

RC is a player who used to be very good at town and scum, and then wasn't as good at town but was still good as scum. Also, very combative, and this has led to him rage quitting and/or being banned multiple times.

Boon is a player who lies a lot as town. Also can be very combative, have not seen him quit or be banned personally but have a lot less experience with him. He, like RC, is better as scum.

Creature is terrible at scum and generally lurks out, you can generally read him by post count and motivation (is he enjoying the game? probably not scum. is he lurking a lot? probably not town. etc) Not a good look for him so far, but he's going to be an easy read so there's no point voting there now. The game has only been open under a day, after all. His reads are hit or miss but are generally pretty good, so support him if he's town telling as he lacks any charisma and people generally just ignore his above average reads.

I know CoA is a pretty good player, and I've heard the names Vedith / Shoshin, but that's it as far as my knowledge of this playerlist.


As for voting: they're being dumb. Voting is how the game progresses, and if you're a VT it is literally your only power. You know how in elections people always say "your vote is your voice" and yell at young adults for not using their right to vote? Its the same concept. This is more theory talk at this point and I'm going to drop it after this post, but seriously, I have extreme distaste for townies who don't play fast and loose with their vote early on. Not as much theory talk: scum are more likely to sit on vanity wagons, and scum are more likely to be static with their vote.

I town read your entrance, and your posts after have felt genuine. Don't sweat about how experienced we all are.

See, the meta case and posts like 141 made me wonder if I could be wrong on the Alt thing, but that's clearly not the case.

Thank you, by the way. I know I haven't exactly been cordial so far... but it's simply in-game. Nothing personal.

i am the real RC

you can be RCE

How about he's RC and you can be RadCow?

Anyways, did you ever explain the RCE vote here? Control + F in your ISO didn't really bring anything up.

[CultOfAthena]

Athena what do I do to make this a game that you want to invest your time and energy into?

Just let me do my thing.

VOTE: roomy

I played scum with yellow in a recent game AMA

Um... what's your read on him? You don't seem to actually say it despite making a comment like 286.

---

Interested to hear about the roomy scumread, RC. His entrance has a few posts that ping town but I'm hesitant to take that to townread him.

Vote: Tarkus

[CultOfAthena]

Strange that creature hasn't been replaced yet.

It hasn't even been 48 hours.

@COA: Have you played with Shoshin? What's your opinion of her in general?

I think she's a top-tier player. Why do you ask?

[CultOfAthena]

CoA lurks as scum too though

I haven't been replaced, so you know I'm town.

This post made by the Maria gang.

[CultOfAthena]

45996#p10745996]post 406[/url], YellowSnow"]@COA: Have you played with Shoshin? What's your opinion of her in general?

I think she's a top-tier player. Why do you ask?

Do you have any more specific opinions?

Is there some reason you ask? Genuine question. If there's some read you have contingent on my answer just say so.

Side note – If you highlight text before pressing "Quote", it selectively quotes whatever you highlighted.

so whats that now

aura vorkuta yellowsnow rc shoshin coa boatsnhoes

as like

decent townreads

that's solve innit

when you've caught up i'm looking for a comment on this CoA

Aura obviously, Vortuka and Shoshin fully agreed. YS I'm undecided on but currently leaning towards being lynchbait. At the moment I do lean town on you as well.

Why do you townread Boats?

RCE I also lean town on, although I'm not sure how reliable the read is.

[CultOfAthena]

a lot of tonal things suggest to me that boats is village

Meh. I'll reread tomorrow if you're confident, although these most recent posts still do him no favors.

This wasn't actually as bad to catch up on as I thought it'd be looking at the page count.

[CultOfAthena]

be sure that you've read 435 because it's important.

but, uh, i'd villageread their posting even without being fairly sure I know who they are.

Gotcha.

Going to sleep.

[CultOfAthena]

COA, why are you voting Tarkus? Do you find any similarities between his play here and the recent game you played where he was scum?

~Reasons~.

To be serious, yes. That last game he lurked / skated through – although I intended to push him multiple times throughout the game, townies doing outrageous things consistently prevented him from ever truly being scrutinized. I don't intend to let the same thing happen again when he's playing fairly similarly and fairly scummy.

[CultOfAthena]

so do we wanna take the creature freebie now or go for a bigger scum hit

We should go for a bigger scum hit. It's boring to lynch scum!me anyway.

[CultOfAthena]

I'd uh.... like to go back to newbie queue please.... I don't have the big brains necessary to follow along...

Chances are, if you don't get it it's either a meme, a movie reference (more likely if RC said it), or doesn't actually matter. Don't worry about it.

[CultOfAthena]

as a newer player, being in this game honestly sucks

I don’t know the meta, I don’t know the cliques, it’s not worth my time to wade through pages dominated by personal grievances I have no part or interest in

/replace me pls

637 is scummy.

Still not townreading this, RC.

In particular, Cowbell's interactions with Creature look the most S/S to me. I can recall players in the past reacting almost exactly how he is to someone like Creature, who is, "a lost cause". The only reason I'm hesitant is that it seems consistent with Cowbell's style so far.

Also when people say RC which RC do they mean? Like sometimes its hard to judge from context

Can't off the top of my head find a game where RC and Creature were scum together (although I'm certain one exists), but I don't feel like this is how RC would deal with having Creature as a scumbuddy.

What do you mean "inclined to ignore Creature"?

Vote: Creature

[CultOfAthena]

Meta isn't the reason that I'm voting him. It simply doesn't give me reason to not vote him, as it did with say, Mohab in the last game.

[CultOfAthena]

Sorry, not really feeling up to it lately.

Catching up.

[CultOfAthena]

I mean I really don't like to be this reliant on meta-reads. So I'm probably going to take everything that people say in that area with a grain of salt.

Any scum player is going to attempt to replicate their town meta as scum. And the fact that Creature's scum meta has been labeled as very obviously different from his town meta means that he can easily fake being town if he wants to. (That said, see below)

Similarly, I'm hesitant about any entirely meta based reads of players who are considered to be very good. Someone in that category of player would know what kind of things they are likely to be town read for. I'd be more curious to know if anyone looks like they're playing to their town meta, but in a way that looks forced.

No... that's not really how meta reads work. The reason that effective meta reads exist in the first place comes from an obvious difference between people's town and scum games. Yes, it is theoretically possible for someone to mimic their towngame as scum, but those type of people... don't tend to get meta-read.

That being said, I actually do agree with you in that Creature is most likely town. I'm willing to believe that he just had a slow start.

Unvote

I've heard a lot about how his old meta is no longer reliable in reading him, but apart from perhaps a single game (Transformers Mafia) I can't think of a game that actually demonstrates this. Interested if someone actually has one.


I probably re-vote Tarkus here, going to check VC.

[CultOfAthena]

Her main scumread is DDL. If you want to sheep her because you agree with her read, that's not sheeping. If you dont want to sheep CoA because you disagree with her scumreads, that is also not sheeping.

My main scumread is Tarkus. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it was DDL from, although I do also scumread him.

I strongly believe CoA would object to me sheeping her on a read that I disagree with regardless.

Meh.

I would never expect you to do it because I would hope that you would never expect me to do so. I would hope that you would actually come to agree with me if you're sheeping me rather than just following, so I guess you're right.

If Shoshin is town she will force scum to nightkill her before endgame

We never Lynch her D1 ever

This is proveably false from the games I linked

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=76303 [lynched]
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77661 [endgamed]

She was mechanically falsely guiltied in that first game. Maybe you should... actually read some of the games that you're using as meta evidence.

Either way, the fact that Shoshin has been endgamed before doesn't imply that she's not valuable to keep around. I can speak to recent experience that supports what RC said.

What is COA and Soshin's scum meta?

Lurk lurk lurk

Funny... you've said exactly this in literally every single game we've played together for months now.

Well, I say funny, but really it's not actually that funny at all. If you want to lynch actual lurk!scum, vote Tarkus.

[CultOfAthena]

re Shoshin for a player with so little content I would expect more specific reads when they do post. COA said she's a good player and she hasn't played like it yet.

I don't recall saying I'm a good player. Other people have said it about me, but I've made no such claim. Honestly, I despise the "Wow, she's supposed to be good but she's being pretty disappointing, guess she's not as good as blahblah" more than anything.

Spoiler:

This is where I'm at on this game. Aura, Vorkuta, Enigma, Radiant, and COA are my strongest townreads. I won't consider lynching here unless everyone else is dead. And I think there's reasons to scumread every other player in the game.

I'm trusting Radiant that Boats/Snow is town, at least for today. I was scumreading Boats because his analysis is so mechanical, almost reminds me of someone like Mathblade, but I'm willing to let that go for the moment. I had Snow as strong town earlier but after reading through one of his scum games I don't feel comfortable with that read anymore. I think the way he quickly changed course on his reads was opportunistic in precisely the same ways he was opportunistic as scum, plus I think his forgetfulness about Aura isn't as towny as I thought on first impression.

I have Tarkus as null. He feels less scummy than his play in one of his scum games, but I need to check his town games because he's still lurking here in ways that resemble scum.

Vedith is playing like trollish scum. I have nothing to say on this because despite scumreading his slot, I've been told his is just how he plays by Radiant. So, again, I'm willing to leave this slow alone for today.

I scumread Morality from the start of the game. I thought he was trying too hard in the early parts of the game, cluttering the game with tons of pointless posts, and he hasn't actually made any attempt to scumhunt. His recent posts trying to cast me as scum aren't great either, especially since he seems to be doing the typical scum thing of ignoring large aspects of what I'm doing so that he can make me look scummy. Radiant agrees with this read, so Morality is up for lynching as far as I'm concerned.

roomy gave me strong vibes. I thought the fact that he replaced out after just a small amount of bickering from two players felt fake, especially since it didn't even involve him. DDL's play has been shit. His meta on me is crap. His attempt to scumread both me and Enigma is based entirely on dumb details that have nothing to do with alignment (e.g. his notion that haven't been following up on things when I'm actually following up on everthing, just not necessarily shitting the thread up with all my thoughts). I think he's scumreading me and Enigma based on associative tells rather than actual scumhunting (e.g. me and Enigma are townreading each other, so it seems like we're a team, even though there's actaully really good reasons for each of us to be townreadig each other).

Creature lurked out the first parts of the game, then entered the game posting lots of crap, superficial and shitty scumread on me that he should know better than to hold, especially after Starcraft Mafia, so who knows? I don't feel like he's been making a fair attempt at trying to read me, at least in the ways he usually will do. I also think Creature usually makes more of an attempt to fairly read lower post count players like myself, so the fact that he isn't doing that here is very concerning. He's probably scum.

If I had to guess a scumteam, I'd guess Creature, DDL, Morality (coincidence that they're all scumreading me?), and if those are wrong, it's Vedith with maybe Boats/Snow/Tarkus.

I'm gonna say this is terribad, agenda-driven and hopefully RC is right about Shoshin being fearkilled pretty early here if she's town.

"Terribad" is not a word I would use to describe that at all. I think that post shows that Shoshin has been taking notes on this game and actually analyzing things while asking very direct questions to help supplement her analysis... which is literally exactly what I expect from town Shoshin. Like, newsflash – proposing multiple scumteams and going "If I'm wrong on X then it's possible that it could be Y" aren't actually evidence of being scum. It's evidence of having a complex thought process and considering multiple possibilities. I'd argue scum are more likely to be tunnelled on one specific possibility.

[CultOfAthena]

I'm at around that part. Dealing with something else right now. Strictly business.

[CultOfAthena]

Pretty much caught up.

Preferred vote today is DDL or Tarkus. Vedith I don't consider a bad vote, but I don't really know how to read him.

[CultOfAthena]

Is Morality not on that list b/c truce or not on that list b/c you don't scumread him?

A little bit of both. The only method I think I've ever read boon by is just associatively off of a lockscum read I already had (not sure what he's referring to by that game he claims I tunneled him).

I'm not going to ignore your read on him, don't worry.

@rc 1577
@coa did you figure out who I am

No clue, although I haven't really tried to figure out very hard.

I'm unsure. I'm torn between Tarkus and DDL as the slot in the scumpool that has the highest equity of being town.

Can you believe me when I say that I have ~reasons~ for scumreading both of them?

[CultOfAthena]

I'm not claiming that it's that level of confidence in a scumread. I just have ~reasons~.

[CultOfAthena]

I'm not asking you to sheep me, RC – you don't have to drop your Vedith vote. If

you're

confident in something there then I want to hear it exactly

because

I don't really know how to read Vedith.


Boats – is this another one of your "experimental alts", then?