Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[Shoshin]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[Shoshin]

Good. Radiant's obviously town.

VOTE: Morality

[Shoshin]

I don't 1v1, this is a team game.

[Shoshin]

What's your current read on Morality, Radiant?

[Shoshin]

I promise, RC.

[Shoshin]

Why are you townreading RC, Boats?

[Shoshin]

Pretty sure Vorkuta's town, RC.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: YellowSnow

[Shoshin]

VOTE: roomy

[Shoshin]

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Shoshin]

Snow is town.

[Shoshin]

i agree. i also think you're voting town.

Well, yes. I figured that.

[Shoshin]

If Creature/CoA are town, I'm guessing roomy/Vedith as scum. What do you think, RC?

[Shoshin]

I think Boats is the obvious scum here, yes. He's the one I wasn't mentioning that would be teamed with roomy/Vedith (makes sense to me atm).

I could see Boats/Morality, too, and thought about it for a few seconds -- definitely had a scummy first impression of Morality -- but figuring that maybe Morality is just town who wants to appear scummy so that he can improve his chances at winning as scum. I dunno.

What are your thoughts on roomy/Vedith? Neither are feeling town to me.

[Shoshin]

Why townread on Vedith?

[Shoshin]

lack of reasons to scumread

He isn't scumhunting. And his posting feels awkward.

[Shoshin]

Meh, I haven't played with Vedith. What's AI for him? This is what I see:

Am I town, RC?

Unnatural question at this point. I get the sense already that Vedith cares more about his appearance than scumhunting.

I reject your town block. I think you just want to buddy me

Paranoia feels fake/unnatural.

We could have been special, winning as town together.
But now I think me or you are scum!

And I say that as defence to you calling me scum only!

More awkwardness about describing himself. Still no scumhunting.

VOTE: Vedith
Because as much as I love Saitama, you seem to be WAAAY too preoccupied with what/how other people think of you.

Should I claim?

More awkwardness.

Do you think Yellow is town?

No idea

Still no effort to scumhunt.

He isn't scumhunting. And his posting feels awkward.

But I'm town.

Still just talking about himself.

[Shoshin]

Why aren't you more paranoid about me, RC?

[Shoshin]

Prior to my recent posts, yes.

[Shoshin]

I was more quiet than usual. And you're always a tiny bit paranoid of me, regardless. Even in games when I'm obvious town. So the whole conftown thing doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Shoshin]

That's sort of how I feel at the moment. Not too much to do until they post.

[Shoshin]

If I'm scum with Morality, help me bus please.

How certain are you that Morality is scum?

[Shoshin]

Why are you townreading roomy, Boats?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Boats

Let's lynch this. No need for Creature/COA to post.

[Shoshin]

Very pro-town of you, RC.

[Shoshin]

Very pro-town of you, RC.

if you're scumreading me just say it instead of doing terrible reaction tests
if that was something you sincerely wanted then you should reconsider your approach to mafia.

Where's this coming from? You reminded me of a recent game where town lost before I had a chance to post at all because of some quick lynches. So I was just saying it was pro-town of you to want non-posters to post before lynching.

[Shoshin]

No, I actually just lost a game where I didn't get to post even once. So it was wrong of me to suggest lynching without letting people post. I appreciate your pushback.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: roomy

[Shoshin]

shoshin why roomy over tarkus ?

I like that he put himself out there as resident expert on scum Snow, then defended Snow when he was getting flak but later voted Snow when we started calling him town. Feels townier than roomy, who just feels like scum.

[Shoshin]

Maybe, RC. Let me check what Tarkus looks like as scum.

[Shoshin]

COA, why are you voting Tarkus? Do you find any similarities between his play here and the recent game you played where he was scum?

[Shoshin]

RC, are you townreading roomy?

[Shoshin]

What's your order of scum RC?

[Shoshin]

I should be MothafuckingconftownBoon at this point.

ScumMe would have support in some fashion in this game.

If you were scum, who in this game would support you?

[Shoshin]

Yeah, I agree on Creature. I disagree that I'm lower than the townreads. I also disagree on Enigma, he's my second strongest townread.

[Shoshin]

If you're town, why wouldn't townies support you?

[Shoshin]

Snow, what're your reads?

[Shoshin]

Any reads, Creature?

[Shoshin]

I don't know what that is.

[Shoshin]

I'd have you as scum, but I think I should first do the crazy catch up.

This saddens me.

[Shoshin]

Hey Enigma, what's your read on DrDo?

[Shoshin]

RC, why are you pushing Creature over DDL?

[Shoshin]

i meta'd shoshin's normals briefly, and her play is pretty curt compared to previous (both scum and town), which might indicate a lack of time these days. I didn't find anything particularly salient, other than town-shoshin is more likely to follow up with unanswered q's (sample size 2), and scum-shoshin is more interested in trivialities (sample size 1). Given this, I think I more scum lean shoshin this game due to meta?

The idea that I'm "more likely to follow up with unanswered q's" is provably false. Please provide specific game examples where I followed up on more unanswered questions as town than as scum.

[Shoshin]

I am not lurking.

[Shoshin]

This is where I'm at on this game. Aura, Vorkuta, Enigma, Radiant, and COA are my strongest townreads. I won't consider lynching here unless everyone else is dead. And I think there's reasons to scumread every other player in the game.

I'm trusting Radiant that Boats/Snow is town, at least for today. I was scumreading Boats because his analysis is so mechanical, almost reminds me of someone like Mathblade, but I'm willing to let that go for the moment. I had Snow as strong town earlier but after reading through one of his scum games I don't feel comfortable with that read anymore. I think the way he quickly changed course on his reads was opportunistic in precisely the same ways he was opportunistic as scum, plus I think his forgetfulness about Aura isn't as towny as I thought on first impression.

I have Tarkus as null. He feels less scummy than his play in one of his scum games, but I need to check his town games because he's still lurking here in ways that resemble scum.

Vedith is playing like trollish scum. I have nothing to say on this because despite scumreading his slot, I've been told his is just how he plays by Radiant. So, again, I'm willing to leave this slow alone for today.

I scumread Morality from the start of the game. I thought he was trying too hard in the early parts of the game, cluttering the game with tons of pointless posts, and he hasn't actually made any attempt to scumhunt. His recent posts trying to cast me as scum aren't great either, especially since he seems to be doing the typical scum thing of ignoring large aspects of what I'm doing so that he can make me look scummy. Radiant agrees with this read, so Morality is up for lynching as far as I'm concerned.

roomy gave me strong vibes. I thought the fact that he replaced out after just a small amount of bickering from two players felt fake, especially since it didn't even involve him. DDL's play has been shit. His meta on me is crap. His attempt to scumread both me and Enigma is based entirely on dumb details that have nothing to do with alignment (e.g. his notion that haven't been following up on things when I'm actually following up on everthing, just not necessarily shitting the thread up with all my thoughts). I think he's scumreading me and Enigma based on associative tells rather than actual scumhunting (e.g. me and Enigma are townreading each other, so it seems like we're a team, even though there's actaully really good reasons for each of us to be townreadig each other).

Creature lurked out the first parts of the game, then entered the game posting lots of crap, superficial and shitty scumread on me that he should know better than to hold, especially after Starcraft Mafia, so who knows? I don't feel like he's been making a fair attempt at trying to read me, at least in the ways he usually will do. I also think Creature usually makes more of an attempt to fairly read lower post count players like myself, so the fact that he isn't doing that here is very concerning. He's probably scum.

If I had to guess a scumteam, I'd guess Creature, DDL, Morality (coincidence that they're all scumreading me?), and if those are wrong, it's Vedith with maybe Boats/Snow/Tarkus.

[Shoshin]

i meta'd shoshin's normals briefly, and her play is pretty curt compared to previous (both scum and town), which might indicate a lack of time these days. I didn't find anything particularly salient, other than town-shoshin is more likely to follow up with unanswered q's (sample size 2), and scum-shoshin is more interested in trivialities (sample size 1). Given this, I think I more scum lean shoshin this game due to meta?

The idea that I'm "more likely to follow up with unanswered q's" is provably false. Please provide specific game examples where I followed up on more unanswered questions as town than as scum.

As I argued clearly, I meta'd 3 games in mini normals:
2042 - town shoshin https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
2012 - town shoshin https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
2010 - scum shoshin https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

in the town games, if you search response/respond, there's a lot of hits, and a brief glance indicating shoshin cares about people's responses to her questions and how they react to comments. In the scum-game I link, there is no hits to response/respond. You guys can verify yourself if you want...

I also don't really see the incentive to lie here? Of course sample size is small, so variance could play a role

You haven't shown me any examples of UNANSWERED questions that I DID NOT FOLLOW UP ON AS SCUM. Please prove that there was a MEANINGFUL difference between my TOWN/SCUM games, which is what you claimed earlier.

[Shoshin]

Creature, why are you scumreading me?

[Shoshin]

I was scumreading Boats because his analysis is so mechanical, almost reminds me of someone like Mathblade, but I'm willing to let that go for the moment.

I'm a bit offended, my play seems like Mathblade?

Not tonally, but in terms of how mechanical your analysis is, yes.

[Shoshin]

re Shoshin for a player with so little content I would expect more specific reads when they do post. COA said she's a good player and she hasn't played like it yet.

You don't know if I've played bad yet because you don't know if my reads are right/wrong? Or do you KNOW that they're wrong?

[Shoshin]

I was scumreading Boats because his analysis is so mechanical, almost reminds me of someone like Mathblade, but I'm willing to let that go for the moment.

I'm a bit offended, my play seems like Mathblade?

Not tonally, but in terms of how mechanical your analysis is, yes.

I dont think it is mechanical? I havent talked about setup spec at all this game.

That's not how I'm using the word "mechanical."

[Shoshin]

DDL, I don't follow up on questions when they're directed towards my strongest townreads. I trust my teammates to have their own reasons for not answering a question.

As for your analysis, you still haven't offered any evidence that I'm more likely to follow up on unanswered questions as town than scum. Showing that I followed up on some unanswered questions as town doesn't mean that I'm MORE LIKELY to do so as town than scum. To make that claim (and you made that claim), you need to show that I follow up on a greater percentage of unanswered quetions as town than I do as scum, which means you need to see how many questions I didn't follow up on as town (there's many in all my games), and you also need to see how many questions I followed up on or didn't follow up on as scum (and showing that I didn't follow up on any questions as scum when looking at my ISO doesn't tell you anything since you need to actually show there were unanswered questions).

[Shoshin]

Creature, why are you scumreading me? What is the agenda behind my reads?

[Shoshin]

Creature, why are you scumreading me?

You're pretty underwhelming and seemed very different from Starcraft 2.

I didn't play Starcraft 2. That was entirely the worst.

[Shoshin]

Actually, I made like 2 or 3 posts in Starcraft 2 about how we were not going to sign our posts. The rest of the posts were the worst though.

[Shoshin]

And the idea that I'm underwhelming in this game is bullshit. I haven't been underhwelming. I made my top scumread who I was voting replace out in fear. Just because I don't post as much as others doesn't mean my posts themselves are underhwelming. I've managed to get townreads from the stronger townies in the game (e.g. RC, COA, Enigma), while pushing my reads to the extent I wanted them pushed.

[Shoshin]

What is the agenda behind my reads?

It feels like you're trying not to give up on your reads because you need to follow the agenda.

Huh? What reads am I trying to hold onto?

[Shoshin]

What is the agenda behind my reads?

It feels like you're trying not to give up on your reads because you need to follow the agenda.

Huh? What reads am I trying to hold onto?

And WHAT is the agenda? You didn't answer my question.

[Shoshin]

The game is NOT clique-y, so that was a fake reason.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon thought I was posting too. Not good company, Creature.

[Shoshin]

Roomy actually had multiple votes on him when he replaced out, not just mine. I also was anything but absent. At least from scum's perspective.

[Shoshin]

What is the agenda behind my reads?

It feels like you're trying not to give up on your reads because you need to follow the agenda.

Huh? What reads am I trying to hold onto?

Me for starters.

Uh, I was the person questioning RC's read on you and pushing more towards DDL, so that's just not true. I was hoping you'd town yourself up. But you didn't give me any reason to twonread you. Instead you came into the game with a terrible scumread on me. Where's your usual town self? Why didn't you give my posts a fair read?

[Shoshin]

What is the agenda behind my reads?

It feels like you're trying not to give up on your reads because you need to follow the agenda.

Huh? What reads am I trying to hold onto?

And WHAT is the agenda? You didn't answer my question.

From my last experience as scum, scum have a path of mislynches for an easier way to endgame. Cutting some paths may make the game harder for them.

You just said my post is just an agenda driving post. WHAT is the agenda? Mislynching? Who are the mislynches that I'm pushing? DDL? Morality? You're strongly townreading those slots?

[Shoshin]

I legit thought there was high odds roomy replaced out because pissed that he was being voted by a buddy ftr

Could be. Who else was voting him?

[Shoshin]

Are you still scumreading me, Creature? You gonna hold onto that?

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

[Shoshin]

I actually think Vedith is a strong pick for scum right now

Now you want to push my scumread? Took a while.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

What do you mean by you scumread me because my play sounds mechanical? I don't get it, and quoted the question twice.

I use the term "mechanical" when describing analysis that follows a rigid rule-based approach to scumhunting. Example of rule-based scumhunting: "if a player doesn't answer a question, it's like to be scum; X didn't answer a question; therefore, X is scum." Your approach obviously isn't this rigid but it follows this basic approach. Personally, I don't think it's an effective approach but to each their own.

[Shoshin]

And the idea that I'm underwhelming in this game is bullshit. I haven't been underhwelming.

As somebody who hasn't played with you before, you seem underwhelming to me as well ftr.

I made my top scumread who I was voting replace out in fear

Roomy actually had multiple votes on him when he replaced out, not just mine. I also was anything but absent. At least from scum's perspective.

These don't jive

And I do actually agree that the reason for repping out is bullshit, but I tried calling that out, why did you nor RC (who apparently agreed) nor anybody agree with me? I was told I was wrong. And other than that DDL's play is fine, his reads are close to mine which is town indicative ime, and Roomy was null/very slight town for me too outside of the rep out.

I led the wagon on roomy so I took credit for its impact on him replacing out. As for my play feeling underwhelming, your feeling is subjective and based on a very mechanical way of reading my behaviors. I think what I'm doing has had a lot more impact that most players realize.

I don't think it's necessary to post every single thought, agreement, or disagreement that I have. In this case, I made a judgment call that agreeing wtih you or RC wouldn't contribute anything of value to the game, since I don't think it's a strong basis for scumreading Roomy's slot.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

What do you mean by you scumread me because my play sounds mechanical? I don't get it, and quoted the question twice.

I use the term "mechanical" when describing analysis that follows a rigid rule-based approach to scumhunting. Example of rule-based scumhunting: "if a player doesn't answer a question, it's like to be scum; X didn't answer a question; therefore, X is scum." Your approach obviously isn't this rigid but it follows this basic approach. Personally, I don't think it's an effective approach but to each their own.

I did that earlier because my goal in RVS is to create activity, and there is very little early game to go off of. Yes, they aren't greatly consistent, but its about statistics; if scum is more likely to not vote in RVS, even if its only 1% more likely, then that is a better place to vote. Do you get what I mean? I don't think my play past the first 10-20 pages has been like that at all, do you disagree? And I do believe scum are more likely to dodge questions.

You seem to hold a set of rigid beliefs about what scum are likely to do, and then you apply those beliefs as if they were rules. That's mechanical play, or at least what I call mechanical play. And to be clear, my example of the question-asking was actually just one example among many. For examle, you did it to Morality in a different way (if a player lies it's scum; Morality lied; therefore Morality is scum) while admitting that Morality tends to lie as town. Like, that's how you play. Maybe you lack the self-awareness to realize this about your play, but it's definititely what you do.

[Shoshin]

I led the wagon on roomy so I took credit for its impact on him replacing out. As for my play feeling underwhelming, your feeling is subjective and based on a very mechanical way of reading my behaviors. I think what I'm doing has had a lot more impact that most players realize.

I don't think it's necessary to post every single thought, agreement, or disagreement that I have. In this case, I made a judgment call that agreeing wtih you or RC wouldn't contribute anything of value to the game, since I don't think it's a strong basis for scumreading Roomy's slot.

But people said I was wrong for calling the replace out scummy, and pushing me for that. Is it not necessary to defend a viewpoint you agree with? I get not voicing every microagreement, but when its an active argument I feel its important to get involved.

Do you agree Creature's town? You didn't answer that one I don't think.

I disagree that it's important to get involved with every active argument.

I'd say Creature's null for the moment. He's nowhere close to as town as my other townreads.

[Shoshin]

You seem to hold a set of rigid beliefs about what scum are likely to do, and then you apply those beliefs as if they were rules. That's mechanical play, or at least what I call mechanical play. And to be clear, my example of the question-asking was actually just one example among many. For examle, you did it to Morality in a different way (if a player lies it's scum; Morality lied; therefore Morality is scum) while admitting that Morality tends to lie as town. Like, that's how you play. Maybe you lack the self-awareness to realize this about your play, but it's definititely what you do.

Okay, but if I were to agree with you (which I don't, but this discussion is not something to clog the thread with), and thats how I am as a player, then how does that make it scummy? "Like, that's how

play."

I don't know your alignment. I think mechanical analysis tends to come from scum because it's such an easy way to push mislynches on players while ignoring relevant evidence. I also think the vast majority of townies aren't mechanical thinkers, so when you see someone who is, I look closely at what those players are doing. You seemed to be ignoring relevant evidence so I dunno, felt scummy.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin = You are scum because you really think I am scum.

Why are you scumreading me?

[Shoshin]

Because it seems like you are purposefully holding back. COA had meta on you and you are not playing like a high quality town player.

What do you mean, "purposefully holding back"? As for the "high quality town player" thing, what's your basis for saying my play isn't "high quality"? Do you KNOW my reads are wrong? Which reads do you disagree with?

[Shoshin]

You seem very fency and non-committal.

I've committed to everything I've said. What's "fency"? Be specific.

[Shoshin]

I don't know your alignment. I think mechanical analysis tends to come from scum because it's such an easy way to push mislynches on players while ignoring relevant evidence. I also think the vast majority of townies aren't mechanical thinkers, so when you see someone who is, I look closely at what those players are doing. You seemed to be ignoring relevant evidence so I dunno, felt scummy.

Eh, your above post attributed it far more to playstyle than my alignment. I don't see what I'm ignoring? I dropped my Boon push when I saw it wasn't right, and I switched my Creature read when he proved me wrong.

The above post was directed towards you. When I talk to anyone directly, I treat them as town. Otherwise, why talk to them?

I didn't say you aren't changing reads based on new information. I'm also not pushing your lynch, so this conversation is mostly irrelevant for today.

[Shoshin]

You seem like you'd be willing to vote for almost any player.

This is untrue. I expressly said who I'm unwilling to vote for today. It was the majority of players. Why are you making stuff up about me?

[Shoshin]

Because it seems like you are purposefully holding back. COA had meta on you and you are not playing like a high quality town player.

What do you mean, "purposefully holding back"? As for the "high quality town player" thing, what's your basis for saying my play isn't "high quality"? Do you KNOW my reads are wrong? Which reads do you disagree with?

Yellow, answer these questions. Which of my reads do you disagree with?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Morality

[Shoshin]

I have a lot more faith in CoA and RC's townreads than I do in their scumreads. Can't compare the two.

[Shoshin]

Hey Morality, what're your reads?

[Shoshin]

Who are RC's partners, Morality?

[Shoshin]

RC is townier than everyone else in this game except Aura.

[Shoshin]

That's not what RC said.

[Shoshin]

Hey Morality, can you please not clutter the thread with a pointless back-and-forth with RC?

[Shoshin]

That's not what RC said.

He said that when you can’t lynch him, he’s scum. That’s essentially the same thing. I shouldn’t have said his own words, I agree. Don’t be anal about that, that’s just annoying.

I didn't say RC is unlynchable. I said he's town. There's a difference.

[Shoshin]

Nah, no need for a 1v1. Better to spend your time talking with me about more interesting things. Like Yellow.

[Shoshin]

Is there any way we can have this sometime in the future and focus on our current scum/anti-town reads?
For what it's worth, I'd tentatively say that this is TvT and don't want to lynch either of you today. (Yes- RC)

Why is this TvT?

[Shoshin]

RC, please don't encourage him to clutter this game with a bunch of crap.

[Shoshin]

RC's laziness is a town tell in this game.

[Shoshin]

No, Vorkuta. These players pride themselves on faking this sorto fury/rage as scum. We are lynching Morality today because he's scum. We're also lynching Morality because RC's town and Morality's presence in the game is keeping RC from playing up to his peak level.

[Shoshin]

We're lynching Morality today.

[Shoshin]

And Vorkuta is looking like Morality's partner, coming in to support him with the "Morality isn't getting lynched today, let's put our attention elsewhere" line. Really absurd logic from Vorkuta.

[Shoshin]

What're your reads, Vorkuta?

[Shoshin]

Vorkuta, what makes you think Morality is incapable of faking this level of scum theatre?

[Shoshin]

Vorkuta, you're not being clear about why you townread Morality so please elaborate. You said you don't think he'd fake this level of theatre as scum. I'm trying to understand why. Please address that.

[Shoshin]

Hey Aura, are you opposed to lynching Morality?

[Shoshin]

Yeah, whatever. If Vorkuta's town, he needs to get behind lynching Morality.

[Shoshin]

That's like the most guided/leading question imaginable, and it's also unrelated to my point.

Also, this tells me you're defensive to what I'm saying since my question wasn't actually leading you anywhere. Leading questions are by nature yes/no questions. My question was open-ended. It didn't lead you anywhere. Why are so defensive against my questioning?

[Shoshin]

Casing is a noob tell.

[Shoshin]

Would like to relook at the possibility of Enigma.

Enigma's town. Look at the way he strengthened his townread on me after I voted him. Super smooth. Highly doubt he fakes that as scum.

[Shoshin]

Vorkuta, look at how much work Morality puts into explaining everything he's doing. Even his reaction tests come with a disclaimer: "Look, I'm testing reactions with this vote." This isn't how town plays. He's preemptively justifying everything he's doing so that townies don't or can't ask too many questions. It's typical scum play.

[Shoshin]

Morality's play is also unnaturally mechanical. Like, his belief that there's scum between me/RC doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. His scumread on me took a couple aspects of my play outside context while ignoring most of what I was doing/saying. It feels like he's more interested in shitting up the thread than finding scum. There's no clear townreads or attempt to find townies. He's mostly around to stoke paranoia about players who are already under enough suspicion to potentially get lynched (e.g. me, or RC).

[Shoshin]

Shoshin I think we should respect a legitimate claim of needing a day off for mental health reasons. I don't want to be the reason that he has to play through whatever problems he's having.

His mental health issues don't mean I can't analyze his play so far or discuss why it's scummy. Morality is free to take the day off. I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to Vorkuta and players other than Morality.

[Shoshin]

Stuff like this makes Morality seem like he's not trying to appear town and is in fact genuinely town.

It's pure WIFOM. Scum's bread-and-butter.

[Shoshin]

Aura, how reliable are your reads?

[Shoshin]

What's your plan for winning this game, Vorkuta? How do you intend to find scum on D1? What're you looking for?

[Shoshin]

I think Enigma's hardtown. I agree with the rest.

[Shoshin]

I'd have Tarkus at the same level as Yellow, actually.

[Shoshin]

Like- we're planning to hit scum D1. Don't sell what we're capable of as a town short. If you think that we can hit scum D1 we can hit scum D1. If we're not trying to hit scum D1, what exactly are we trying to do?

Seriously. I hate the mentality so many players have of not even trying to lynch scum D1. I definitely hit scum on D1 more often than not. And even when we mislynch, scum are almost always in town's crosshairs. It's often just a matter of getting town to agree on the right player.

[Shoshin]

Enigma, why is Vedith town? You need to help me with that.

[Shoshin]

Fuck information lynching. You win mafia by lynching scum, not by creating information.

[Shoshin]

That factionalist approach is so manipulable by scum, Vorkuta. Like, oof. You're the kind of townie I dream of playing against as scum.

[Shoshin]

That factionalist approach is so manipulable by scum, Vorkuta. Like, oof. You're the kind of townie I dream of playing against as scum.

You're the kind of townie I dream of playing with as town. <3

I'm going to be heartbroken if you're scum this game.

[Shoshin]

It's the other way around, Vorkuta. Town has to be bad for scum to survive D1.

[Shoshin]

I'm still lynching Morality today.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: rce

Why?

[Shoshin]

Why is he more likely scum?

[Shoshin]

Tldr, reads are inauthentic and inoffensive. Theres barely any follow up in the reads, and strangely almost no movement despite lots of action happening (from what I recall)

What makes them inauthentic? What changes should he have had that didn't happen? And why would he have had those changes as town?

[Shoshin]

That doesn't answer my questions.

[Shoshin]

Town don't always change their reads after N pages. I can't believe how shallow your analysis is.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to hear why Enigma's townreading Vedith before lynching there.

[Shoshin]

It's just shoshin and Vedith at this point. I'll throw myself in there as I voiced my intent to hammer when town comes around.

Why was Vedith a townread at this point in the game?

[Shoshin]

Nevermind about that. Bad question. I still don't get why you're townreading Vedith.

[Shoshin]

I prefer lynching DDL over Tarkus if it comes to those two.

[Shoshin]

I never want to hear how good you three are at town ever again when I flip. Your town block sucks and your reads suck.

Do you think good players are never wrong about anything?

[Shoshin]

I'm not lynching CoA today, RC. Why'd you start townreading DDL?

[Shoshin]

I have an iron clad reason to scumread CoA

Give the reason.

[Shoshin]

Tell me what it is.

[Shoshin]

Haha, I was just looking at that specific post.

[Shoshin]

Can you explain why you're scumreading that?

[Shoshin]

Don't assume I'll disagree. Explain your thought process.

[Shoshin]

My main scumread is Tarkus. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it was DDL from, although I do also scumread him.

This feels pretty town, RC.

[Shoshin]

You could both be town, RC.

[Shoshin]

I'm not lynching CoA today. There's better plays.

[Shoshin]

Why are you fighting a lynch on DDL?

[Shoshin]

I suggest you take a break from the game, clear your mind, and come back when your emotions aren't clouding your judgment.

[Shoshin]

Assume I'm town, RC. Do you think DDL is town or scum?

[Shoshin]

I'm not scum, RC.

[Shoshin]

Are you going to talk to me about DDL?

[Shoshin]

From my perspective the decision to lynch NSG isn't a matter of whether she's scum, RC, it's a matter of whether DDL's scum. I trust my reads over yours, nobody is right 100% of the time including you, and I'm scumreading roomy/DDL to the point where I want that slot lynched over NSG. So if you want to convince me to lynch NSG, convince me that DDL is town.

And stop losing your shit over this. Take a break from the game before you implode. Come back with a better mindset. It's not fun when you start scumreading me just because I'm not sheeping you. Like, you're not even helping me sheep you. You weren't forthcoming with your reasoning on NSG, you're calling me scum, and you're straight-up refusing to even talk about DDL or my other scumreads when they're obviously relevant to whether I sheep you.

[Shoshin]

I prefer lynching Morality over CoA. His claim that I didn't consider RC's view on CoA is absurdly untrue to the point of being a straight-up scum claim.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Morality

[Shoshin]

I think there's good reasons to be paranoid of NSG. And if she's scum, don't worry, she'll get lynched.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin going against RC seems like scum trying to play the political game.

I don't know how town genuinely trying to scumhunt ever comes to this conclusion. Like, if I were scum with Boats/Enigma (your claim), why wouldn't I just sheep RC on CoA?

[Shoshin]

If I'm scum who sees town RC pushing a mislynch on CoA, I sheep it as scum 100% of the time. The only reason I'd defend CoA as scum is if she were my partner, and even that's unlikely when it's obvious she's going down.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin what's your readslist

You're town. Enigma's town.

Morality's scum. DDL's scum.

[Shoshin]

This is surface level scum play.

There's no such thing as "surface level scum play" because it's all WIFOM.

Good scum play means making accurate predictions about how your behavior will influence others. If I were scum with Boats/Enigma, I'd predict that sheeping RC on a CoA mislynch gets my team two mislynches (first on CoA, then on RC) without putting myself or teammates anywhere within town's crosshair. As scum, that'd be a dream scenario.

[Shoshin]

I am ScumShoshin’s biggest threat this game.

If I were scum, the only player I'd consider a threat is RC.

[Shoshin]

Why Boats? I haven't read the new posts deeply yet.

[Shoshin]

CoA was hammered?

[Shoshin]

I'd say it depends on CoA's flip.

[Shoshin]

Is it actually twilight?

[Shoshin]

I wouldn't say it's the play if she's scum. Especially if she's an important role. But I agree that he's scum if she flips town.

[Shoshin]

Yeah, Boats has to be scum. Why the hell is he scumreading RC while voting CoA?

[Shoshin]

Can you talk to me about why you're townreading DDL/Snow. If we can lock those down as town, this game's solved.

[Shoshin]

I wish people sheeped me more.

[Shoshin]

It sucks not being townread, too.

[Shoshin]

I wish people sheeped me more.

I'm pretty sure your reads are wrong this game outside of morality DDL and yelloesnoe are Lynchbait and you just now came around to BnH

I respect your reads a lot and still think you've been way off

I've been saying Morality/Boats were scum the whole game?

[Shoshin]

I respect your reads a lot and still think you've been way off

Way off? That's a strong statement to make when your reads basically look the same as mine, with a couple exceptions.

[Shoshin]

Ok. Sorry if I'm wrong. I'm frazzled and I'm kinda freaking out internally about how we didn't vote morality or bnh. If I got town CoA mislynched it will make me feel fucking awful

I'd note that I warned against it. And that maybe I should be sheeped more.

[Shoshin]

I was pushing Morality/Boats before DDL. You're the one who insisted that Boats was town based on meta reasons I don't have access to, so I decided to sheep you.

[Shoshin]

I think I'm dying tonight

[Shoshin]

Yeah, if CoA flips scum, you can have credit for it.

[Shoshin]

And she might.

[Shoshin]

I wouldn't be surprised if CoA's scum... it'd be nice if she had put more effort into the game.

[Shoshin]

If CoA's town, I'd feel pretty good about one of DDL/Tarkus flipping scum.

[Shoshin]

Boats dies first if CoA flips town.

[Shoshin]

If CoA flips scum, we're lynching Morality.

[Shoshin]

I don't have confident scumreads these days. Just confident townreads.

[Shoshin]

Protective should be on Aura, RC, or me.

[Shoshin]

I'm going to die tonight.

[Shoshin]

Where's the flip? I want to see CoA's alignment already.

[Shoshin]

I'm guessing she's scum based on her absence.

[Shoshin]

She's scum with Morality, probably.

[Shoshin]

DO NOT LYNCH RC.

[Shoshin]

Huh?

[Shoshin]

Hey Boats, why is RC scum?

[Shoshin]

I don't get why Boats scumreads RC.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to fully sort Boats today.

[Shoshin]

You think CoA flips town?

[Shoshin]

I'll kill Boats if his reasons to scumread you don't make sense.

[Shoshin]

I think it's more likely she flips town yes.

Why?

[Shoshin]

Shoshin’s gonna kill me or try to mislynch me tomorrow.

She’s already setting up to not go Boats tomorrow.

Morality's so obsessed with me lol

[Shoshin]

Her absence from the game makes me think she's flipping scum and this was a planned bus.

[Shoshin]

Morality couldn't wait to hammer her... so yeah, he's obviously her partner if she flips scum.

[Shoshin]

Boats is pushing the absurd idea that RC's scum.

[Shoshin]

The way he shifted his read on CoA also didn't make any sense.

[Shoshin]

I've always wanted a sheep!

[Shoshin]

Honestly, I probably wouldn’t have come back if I was scum, tbh.

Honestly tbh, huh?

[Shoshin]

Yeah, they're pretty bad.

[Shoshin]

I need to learn the art of persuading via gibberish.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Morality

[Shoshin]

How reliable are your townreads DrDo?

[Shoshin]

RCE didn't use his role.

[Shoshin]

Hmm, I didn't read the role carefully enough. He probably used it on one of Morality/Boats/Creature.

[Shoshin]

I think Morality/creature/third is likely.

I think he was checking Creature since we already caught Morality.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Boats

[Shoshin]

What was posted in the hood?

[Shoshin]

Please tells us everything that CoA posted in the hood. Don't assume things aren't important.

[Shoshin]

I'm not going to waste my time speculating about the setup. I'd like to know what CoA said in the hood.