Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: ankamius

hello old friend

[xRECKONERx]

wait nvm how could i be so stupid

VOTE: brigitte

[xRECKONERx]

I plead the fifth.

It doesn't matter, I don't think I've ever played with you before. How interested are you in lynching reckoner?

None at all right now.

I don't think he has generated anything of AI quality yet.

That doesn't make you think things? We're already on the second page and there is no AI content coming from his slot. Seems a bit interesting, doesn't it?

wowee tryhard much

i made two posts during RVS and then you and brigette spamposted all the way to page two and you come in hot with WOW HUH ISN'T IT FUNNY WE'RE ON PAGE TWO AND HIS SLOT HASN'T POSTED ANYTHING AI YET

meanwhile, flubbernugget/ankamius/chara/nimueh/lady angel hadn't posted yet and skitter only had one post. where's your hot & heavy questioning of their AI content

[xRECKONERx]

and honestly i guess i'm a little confused how he's your strongest/only townread after you said you thought there was no ai content from the slot

ding ding ding skitter is a winner

VOTE: enter

[xRECKONERx]

wow skitter has my brain

[xRECKONERx]

the opinion shift from enter is completely manufactured

it's like a light switch from "omg he has no ai stuff yet and IT'S PAGE TWO!!!!!!" to "oh yeah i totally agree with you that reck is so town dudeeee"

it's v bad

[xRECKONERx]

post 34 belongs in a museum dedicated to robotic AI trying to emulate human behavior

or in this case, scum trying to emulate being town

[xRECKONERx]

the opinion shift from enter is completely manufactured

it's like a light switch from "omg he has no ai stuff yet and IT'S PAGE TWO!!!!!!" to "oh yeah i totally agree with you that reck is so town dudeeee"

it's v bad

Definitely. The irony of the push on me is that the argument is that I'm inconsistent, while if you read everything I've been saying, it's actually wildly consistent. It's cool tho, let's get to L-2 at least.

31 to 34 is absolutely not consistent and no amount of gaslighting will ever convince me of that

[xRECKONERx]

Actually, the fact that people are taking a page one post in RVS that's an obvious attempt to get a wagon going as serious in any way, shape, or form is kinda weird to me. Mafia has changed a lot in the last two years.

it was page two

shouldnt you know, you were blowing up about how ridiculous it was i had posted no AI content ON PAGE FRICKIN TWO!!!!

[xRECKONERx]

post 34 belongs in a museum dedicated to robotic AI trying to emulate human behavior

or in this case, scum trying to emulate being town

This is posturing.

you're posturing

[xRECKONERx]

the opinion shift from enter is completely manufactured

it's like a light switch from "omg he has no ai stuff yet and IT'S PAGE TWO!!!!!!" to "oh yeah i totally agree with you that reck is so town dudeeee"

it's v bad

Definitely. The irony of the push on me is that the argument is that I'm inconsistent, while if you read everything I've been saying, it's actually wildly consistent. It's cool tho, let's get to L-2 at least.

31 to 34 is absolutely not consistent and no amount of gaslighting will ever convince me of that

It's consistent with everything else I've been saying

"Any wagon is better than no wagon"
"You can say do anything in RVS"
"Let's wagon anyone even if they're town cuz it gets us out of RVS with serious reads"

So a vote change from a player I'd barely read to a player I'd read slightly more of in attempt to draw attention, start a wagon, and acquire reads is pretty consistent to the rest of what I've been saying.

It's almost like context is important.

my issue isn't the vote change

my issue is the flip from suspecting me to IN THE VERY NEXT POST saying i pinged you as town instead and putting me near the top of your town list

it's not organic. it's so flippant and out of nowhere. it feels manufactured

[xRECKONERx]

I plead the fifth.

It doesn't matter, I don't think I've ever played with you before. How interested are you in lynching reckoner?

None at all right now.

I don't think he has generated anything of AI quality yet.

That doesn't make you think things? We're already on the second page and there is no AI content coming from his slot. Seems a bit interesting, doesn't it?

...

this does not read like a joke whatsoever

this reads like actual prodding and pushing

[xRECKONERx]

...

ok.

so just to summarize

enter: *does a really scummy thing by changing his mind on a read out of nowhere*
people: *vote enter for doing the scummy thing*
enter: but aha you see it is i who is a genius because i

meant

to be scummy

cool okay hey everyone you can ignore the last six pages this is everything right here ^^^

[xRECKONERx]

...

ok.

so just to summarize

enter: *does a really scummy thing by changing his mind on a read out of nowhere*
people: *vote enter for doing the scummy thing*
enter: but aha you see it is i who is a genius because i

meant

to be scummy

cool okay hey everyone you can ignore the last six pages this is everything right here ^^^

good summary

but is it scummy?

because I'm kind of leaning no at this point

well let's see

either enter is town who purposefully acted scummy to try to get a wagon on themselves
or enter is scum who acted scummy and got caught and is now twisting it to be some (really bad) genius master plan all along

scenario b seems far more likely and even if it's scenario a im pretty comfortable with my vote where it is

[xRECKONERx]

Of course it can be manipulative without necessity of being townread.

But you seem to be arguing that Enter state of mind was he came in here and was trying to buddy me and get me to vote with him in a manufactured way to manipulate me,

when

I think its more likely he was trying to get a wagon going to get reads out of RVS and that seems way more in line with all of his posts to date

. I think your reasoning falls apart when you take the full context of his posts instead of focusing on 2 posts by themselves that seem odd in that narrow context.

bolded: i mean yeah that's exactly what it looks like to me

i don't really get the transition from insinuating reck is sketchy for not having ai content to townreading him in the context you're suggesting in the italics

Because you are narrowly focused on 2 posts. Read all of his posts. Tell me what his state of mind is when taking all the posts into consideration. If you ignore all the other posts I think you have a reasonable conclusion. Except that is ignoring everything else that contradicts it.

this is horse shit.

post 19: enter rvs joke votes brigitte
post 20: enter changes votes to me
post 21: enter makes a contentless joke post
post 23: enter asks for brigitte's alt
post 29: enter pushes brigitte to lynch me
post 31: enter adds reasoning to the case to why brigitte should lynch me
post 34: enter does a complete 180 and now thinks im town, swaps votes to urap2

this continued assertion that MUH CONTEXT will explain the terribad sequence of post 31 to post 34 is BAFFLING

[xRECKONERx]

...

ok.

so just to summarize

enter: *does a really scummy thing by changing his mind on a read out of nowhere*
people: *vote enter for doing the scummy thing*
enter: but aha you see it is i who is a genius because i

meant

to be scummy

cool okay hey everyone you can ignore the last six pages this is everything right here ^^^

"Ouch I got played and now I look dumb pls vote for this guy so I don't feel as bad for voting for lynchbait"

Wow. I'm cranky, sorry about that. I'm gonna go eat bekfast, see you in a bit

yeah bro, i got played by your INCREDIBLE genius play of.....being scummy as fuck

wow much play very genius wow

[xRECKONERx]

Initial reads from town to scum

Brigitte
Skitter

Reck/Enter

Nmsa

cant wait to see actual fucking reasons instead of empty reads

[xRECKONERx]

Initial reads from town to scum

Brigitte
Skitter

Reck/Enter

Nmsa

cant wait to see actual fucking reasons instead of empty reads

do you disagree with the reads or do you just not like that he hasn't given reasons?
(and like he did say earlier that he has a fever so like i'm not much bothered that he hasn't contributed super much rn)

==

@enter what do you think of branson's vote on me?

empty reads are worthless

[xRECKONERx]

Hi sorry posting during the week is hard because work hates me, I'll try to get plugged back in ASAP

[xRECKONERx]

ok im gonna try to read up as much as i can before i head to eat

[xRECKONERx]

people complaining about me lurking or disappearing when i still have more posts than a third of the playerlist is baffling. and probably means scum are coming out of the woodwork to take advantage of the fact i can't post as much during the week. you'll notice my last real engaged post was sunday night, which is exactly when i have to stop participating because of work being crazy.

anyway, onto the catchup. this is a skim and me trying to quickly do what i can before i need to leave. i skipped bits. like the entire urap2/enter back and forth on p17. i also dont care about meta arguments.

* Enter's early play still pings me as weird and I don't see how so many people see nothing there. But I will say a few of Enter's later postings seem like he's genuinely trying to figure out the game rather than rest on easy pushes and votes. A few things stick out to me like Enter's bold proclamation that "there's scum either on the NMSA wagon or not voting", and claiming I was "lurking the attention off" after not posting for OMG 24 HOURS!!! THE HUMANITY!!! can you calm the fuck down about me not posting since our earlier engagement please. there are plenty of people for you to be wasting your energy on instead.
* Nimueh's first post still sits very poorly with me. Chooses a popular lynch target by saying they're "pinging" her, then just fence sits and asks for explanations. It's gross. The follow up posts have been equally unsettling. Something about the phrasing feels like she's trying to incept scumreads into people's heads without getting her hands dirty (see 288).
* Flubbernugget is either willfully obtuse or purposefully trying to discredit me with 293. My problem was never "Enter's reads are inconsistent", it's that Enter flipped and did a complete 180 at the slightest sign of pressure and it felt forced and fake. "Recks play does not feel natural" is about as limp dick of a response you can give for continuing to coast on a bullshit read.
* NMSA's "do you want me to stay with my useless playstyle or replace out" reeks of AtE and hollowness.
* urap2 is odd. I honestly can't say any posts stuck out to me as town or scum in any way. They're just posts. They're stating pretty obvious things for the most part or arguing about meta. I don't agree or disagree with anything urap2 posts because they're all very safe and easy stances to take without risking much.
* tris is pinging me pretty hard in a lot of places. Maybe it's the way she restates things others have already said or the "someone ask me questions" post that makes it easy to sit around and not do a hell of a lot. Or the utterly useless post in 350 that does nothing and adds zero to the game but man does it sure LOOK like she's trying to do SOMETHING.
* skitter is saying a lot of the things in my brain so I am very fine giving skitter a pass for D1 since I agree with a lot of what she's saying. Like lock and step I either agree or think skitter makes good points 100% of the time so far. most likely my towniest read for d1.
* Chara's fine, I guess. Not being around for the start and just coming in and giving retrospective sort of viewpoints feels hard to read.
* Branson is town, I think. The calling out of homogeneous reads on D1 when momentum is building absolutely reads town in my mind. I don't see the scum motivation in doing that when you could ride it out and just drop that idea after a mislynch has gone through. I don't quite see what she sees with skitter, but the case feels genuine and believed.
* tictac demanding more posts/content from people is the height of irony IMO. maybe it's lack of awareness. maybe it's maybelline.

i skimmed hard at the end to get this out cuz im about to go eat dinner

[xRECKONERx]

lmfao lady angel isn't even on my list hold on

[xRECKONERx]

neither is brigitte. christ.

[xRECKONERx]

lmfao brigette hasnt posted since my last post either but nobody's clamoring for her head on a silver platter to contribute more.

lady angel has jack shit for content other than 2 joke posts 1 fluff questioning (why is NSMA at L2....like rtft)

[xRECKONERx]

right, let's dump some readslists based on early game + my skimming of p11-p20. these are buckets, not necessarily ranked

TOWN
branson
skitter
chara

NULL
urap2
enter
brigette

SCUM/LYNCH ALL LURKERS
nimueh
flubbernugget
nmsa
tris
tictac
lady angel

i definitely owe that latter bucket some more reading and analysis but it's where im at right now with sorting out where people stand

[xRECKONERx]

how'd i get to townread for you from hard to read?

u2: i didn't think it likely that scum you would hop on the Reck wagon following Enter if you were scum with him. and that if he did flip town, there's a lot of value for scum to sheep Enter in the way you did, encouraging his style and saying you're doing it to read him.
but i might abandon that whole line of thought due to you sticking with nmsa scum as your wanted lynch for the day.

because there are enough people who are egregious to me that i dont need to worry about you being scum rn

[xRECKONERx]

i feel better about chara than i do about the people listed in the null pool and i feel better about those people than everyone else in the bottom bucket

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: nimueh

[xRECKONERx]

lol nimueh's on v/la for 2 fucking weeks is this real life

VOTE: lady angel

@mod please replace nimueh if they cannot play this game until march 12th

[xRECKONERx]

hm

[xRECKONERx]

can we not fucking do this with lady angel & nim giving us ABSOLUTELY GODDAMN NOTHING TODAY

[xRECKONERx]

yes im pushing lurkers because this is how lurkers win games and id rather lose 100000x over to someone actually trying and playing the game than let shitbag lurkers skate through and win after doing nothing

there's a good goddamn reason lynch all lurkers was the site meta 10 years ago, and there's a reason im pushing to bring it back (i dont recall which game it was, but it was one where Aristophanes lurked all game and skated by to a win)

[xRECKONERx]

we aren't ever going to get a free chance to lynch lurkers moving forward

d1 is the only possible day where there's time for it bc d2 and onwards everyone will have bigger fish to fry

so please god give us the nim lynch
lady angel is probably getting replaced

[xRECKONERx]

yeah pardon me if i dont take your opinion as word of god

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: NMSA

this needs rope as soon as humanly fucking possible btw

[xRECKONERx]

Why's that?

here ill put as much effort into that response as youve put into explaining your reads

[xRECKONERx]

anyway so what's up gang

[xRECKONERx]

inc. town flip and nk on me and then herpaderp town letting lurkers skate by to a win

im so fuckin pumped man

[xRECKONERx]

reck how do you feel about urap2 now

prob scum if im right and we get a townflip

[xRECKONERx]

inc. town flip and nk on me and then herpaderp town letting lurkers skate by to a win

im so fuckin pumped man

Why do you think you would be killed here?

because

[xRECKONERx]

we aren't ever going to get a free chance to lynch lurkers moving forward

d1 is the only possible day where there's time for it bc d2 and onwards everyone will have bigger fish to fry

so please god give us the nim lynch
lady angel is probably getting replaced

Why push a lurker when you think they are getting replaced? What?

are you incapable of reading

i said i wanted a nim lynch
because landy angel is getting replaced

[xRECKONERx]

Brigitte is looking like scum #2

[xRECKONERx]

tris and reck are virtually locktown

[xRECKONERx]

we aren't ever going to get a free chance to lynch lurkers moving forward

d1 is the only possible day where there's time for it bc d2 and onwards everyone will have bigger fish to fry

so please god give us the nim lynch
lady angel is probably getting replaced

Why push a lurker when you think they are getting replaced? What?

are you incapable of reading

i said i wanted a nim lynch
because landy angel is getting replaced

Lately I have been skimming your posts since you tend to skim posts in the thread as well.
I noticed you are voting lady angel. Then you say they are getting replaced. So no idea why you say "I want nim lynch" and are voting a person you think is getting replaced.

Maybe you should read.

because why would i bother moving my vote if there's no appetite for a wagon and tris just hammered

[xRECKONERx]

i see it was fake.

[xRECKONERx]

okey dokey then

VOTE: nim

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE NIM FOR GREAT JUSTICE

[xRECKONERx]

wait lemme do my tris impression
"im gonna try to hammer someone THEN worry about forming actual reads"

like what

p.edit: i have zero interest in anything outside of a lurker lynch right now and approximately 0% of the "points" or "cases" made against NSMA hold any weight in my head bc theyre all METAMETAMETAMETAMETAMETAMETA and meta is fucking garbage

[xRECKONERx]

there we go

[xRECKONERx]

tris is v bad and the only other tempting vote for me rn outside of the lurkers

[xRECKONERx]

so you decided fake hammering someone to put them at l-1 and potentially get them lynched before even bothering to form reads was.............................good?

[xRECKONERx]

ah yes i too like to play fast and loose with lynches when i have no reads

quite

[xRECKONERx]

Ank is selling towncred and reck is buying it up.

i too like to throw the english language into a blender

what

[xRECKONERx]

it was actually pretty safe since iirc everybody is

a. already on the wagon
b. stated to not be interested in the wagon
c. a lurker

i really dont get a vibe from any of tris's posting that she was aware of that

if she had read closely enough to know exactly where everyone else stood on the issue... if she read that much to know it was safe... then she wouldn't be having to double back to form reads after the fact, because she would already have them

How was that going to get them lynched? Are you saying someone would vote for NMSA after an apparent hammer?

you apparently only bamboozled me with the hammer, so, yes

[xRECKONERx]

flubb still pinging it hard

[xRECKONERx]

i really feel like you're going out on a limb to call tris town for that, ank. i dont see it

[xRECKONERx]

im more town just bc im disagreeing with ank?

wow didnt know that was the big secret

[xRECKONERx]

If NMSA's partners aren't in the super lurker category

Then NMSA must either be a strong scum PR

or killing scum must trigger something they don't want (I'm thinking along the lines of it being nightless now but not necessarily forever)

[xRECKONERx]

Reck I would love to bring back Lynch all lurkers, lynch qll liars, lynch all sled voters, but not this game. Look at NMSA. Point out a post that makes him town

that's not how burden of fucking proof works

chances are, he's town
it's on the CHORUS OF PEOPLE SCREAMING THAT HE'S SCUM to present a compelling case, which absolutely ZERO of you have done

[xRECKONERx]

uhhh no. that's not how it works.

let me show you a really cool object lesson to help you understand:

You guys: NMSA IS SCUM
Me: what why
You guys: AHA DONT YOU SEE THEY WONT AGREE WITH US THEREFORE WE MUST BE RIGHT

now i want you to point me to me in the diagram where this all falls apart from a logic standpoint

[xRECKONERx]

if we squint really hard!!!


and put on our thinking caps!!!


i...believe....we can figure it out!!!!!!!!

[xRECKONERx]

here's a fun thing you can do at home

stop using meta as the foundation for your case

better yet, stop using it at all

[xRECKONERx]

id like to append this to my original object lesson

You guys: NMSA IS SCUM!!!!
Me: why
You guys: BECAUSE META!!!!!
Me: but meta sucks, why else
You guys: BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT AGREEING WITH US!!!!!!

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: nmsa

wait did flubb hammer

[xRECKONERx]

His reads list is bullshit both because the reasoning is bullshit and because it doesn't jive AT ALL with his inability to make any reads whatsoever as town in his last game.

His questions are easy questions that don't imply any actual thought process about the game

He can't back up his votes with decent reasons, and he had to switch his votes after being called out on his votes and his reads not making any sense

He's fucking scum

hey idk man your first line here is just meta again stated differently

the last two are interesting food for thought but they do NOT match the passionate fervor of this wagon

[xRECKONERx]

it's another fake hammer

ill tell you hwhat

here's a real one

VOTE: NSMA

[xRECKONERx]

ank is playing semantics

[xRECKONERx]

cuz urap's last two lines were good enough for me and tbh i was tired of the fake posturing around hammers

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: nimueh

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: nimueh

Shouldn't we wait for replacement?

show me where the mod said she's getting replaced

lady angel has had less activity so i expect LA to get replaced first

[xRECKONERx]

brigitte is pinging me as scum ye

[xRECKONERx]

{Tictac, Nimueh, Flubber} are the slots I think I prefer to lynch today.

Let's start here?

VOTE: tictac

why start a new wagon when there's already a vote on nim

[xRECKONERx]

@mod it has been 4 days since LA or Nim have posted. by your own rules, they shouldve been marked for replacement over 24 hours ago

[xRECKONERx]

actually yeah

VOTE: tictac

[xRECKONERx]

oh yay hi elbirn

[xRECKONERx]

Why are you asking about reck specifically?

Because he’s pinging me. I am not fully caught up but I read his ISO after he put NMSA at L-1.

go on, use your big adult words to tell the class what is pinging you

[xRECKONERx]

Why are you asking about reck specifically?

Because he’s pinging me. I am not fully caught up but I read his ISO after he put NMSA at L-1.

go on, use your big adult words to tell the class what is pinging you

Not really helping.

cool, so like, just to check, you have no intentions of explaining reads?

[xRECKONERx]

cool

just saying it's page 45 of a game youve been mostly absent for so i dont think weak gut reads are gonna impress anyone at this point

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: ankamius

this needs to die at some point

nim's posts aren't giving me good feelings, they seem very combative and quick to snap to judgment

my vote remains on tictac because 3 days ago tictac said they'd catch up and have a post later that day so they are way due for a prod/replacement

[xRECKONERx]

TOWN
ank
skitter
chara
urap2

NULL
enter
nmsa
tris
elbirn

SCUM/LYNCH ALL LURKERS
nimueh
brigette
flubbernugget
tictac

[xRECKONERx]

i dont know, what case

[xRECKONERx]

eh im not sure ive read you as angry at all, so i dont really care about the first paragraph.

i think the criticism of "you copied your case on me from my case on you" is pretty fucking wild tbh and even if that's the case, i dont see how it's alignment indicative. like, would scum be more likely to rip a case from their accuser? it's just a weird criticism. i dont think anyone ever in the history of this game, scum or town, has said "im gonna copy my target's case". it's so wild.

i think newbtown is an easy position to take but that doesn't make it valid.
i also think nmsa is newbtown. is it an easy statement to make? yes.
do i think it's true? yes.

brigitte is probably scum tbh. the whole "case" against you is a bunch of shit that doesn't actually track in my head but damn did she say it passionately enough for it to SEEM like there's substance

[xRECKONERx]

Can you be anymore obvious right now though?
Like I can't imagine.

Someone as town. Would ask someone who was scumreading me. What their thoughts on a case I make, and then act like 'ohh I guess I am not being irrational right now'.

Like if you are thinking in these terms as town. I don't even have words for you.

=/

If I have a town read whom I respect and we're meshing a bit on reads, I might use them as a sanity check on a read. why not?

You can't really believe this.

ok so

if ank is scum, this is a possible buddy

but my overall impression is that outside of that very narrow scenario, urap2 is pretty close to locktown for me

[xRECKONERx]

Can you be anymore obvious right now though?
Like I can't imagine.

Someone as town. Would ask someone who was scumreading me. What their thoughts on a case I make, and then act like 'ohh I guess I am not being irrational right now'.

Like if you are thinking in these terms as town. I don't even have words for you.

it's entirely possible im being pocketed by ank. my #1 blind spot as a player is people who buddy up to me and call me town. im aware of this and am trying to make it better

that being said, when you're under fire, hearing someone you have known for a long time reinforce your thoughts can be comforting and sanity-inducing

[xRECKONERx]

i definitely posted those two posts out of order but whatever

[xRECKONERx]

u r a person 2. I don't get this. You think that ankamius is thinking she is going crazy, wants another perspective if the post is scummy or means nothing. Asks reckoner. Who isn't reading the game. Has a scumread on me. If that post is or isn't scummy.

All of this seems reasonable versus asking almost anyone else she might be townreading.

This is what you are thinking?

woweee these posts are REACHING to discredit me just because i disagree with the case and find brigitte scummy

c o o l b e a n s

here's a town reaction: "Hey reck, let's talk, why do you find me scummy"
here's a scum reaction: "omg this person that finds me scummy isnt even reading the game smh"

[xRECKONERx]

If you're town, you need to reset

That's two other people who are agreeing with me in this now

this is a bad look though

[xRECKONERx]

brigitte is pinging me as scum ye

this is the first time he stated a scumread on you?
not entirely accurate to portray him as scumreading you all game

i think she just wanted another opinion on her read, which is fine imo, even if he's scumreading you

no, brigitte was in my scumpool like 20 pages ago

[xRECKONERx]

You have been proving yourself not reading the game for a dozen times. I don't even care to convince you if I am town. Read the game and maybe I will start to value your opinions and thoughts.

ive been reading the game, hun

just bc i dont agree with you doesnt mean im not reading

nice try though. this is absolutely scum discrediting me based on...nothing?

i made ONE POST midweek where i tried to catch up and admitted i skimmed bc i dont have a ton of time during the week to read games

and brigitte takes this and extrapolates it into a reason to ignore literally everything im saying

[xRECKONERx]

1281 does vaguely feel like ank hedging her bets

[xRECKONERx]

You have been proving yourself not reading the game for a dozen times. I don't even care to convince you if I am town. Read the game and maybe I will start to value your opinions and thoughts.

ive been reading the game, hun

just bc i dont agree with you doesnt mean im not reading

nice try though. this is absolutely scum discrediting me based on...nothing?

i made ONE POST midweek where i tried to catch up and admitted i skimmed bc i dont have a ton of time during the week to read games

and brigitte takes this and extrapolates it into a reason to ignore literally everything im saying

Read the game.

why don't you go fuck yourself actually

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: brigitte

because brigitte thinks im scumreading her, she immediately discredits me by saying im not reading
skitter points out that i hadnt been scumreading her, brigitte admits being wrong (she was in my scum/lurker pool 20 pages ago), then doubles down on discrediting me even after i open up a dialogue about her opinion of me not reading the game

@mod requesting prod/replacement on tictac

[xRECKONERx]

ive read the fucking game
show me where i havent

you're taking one single post i made midweek about not reading and saying that means i havent read

based on NOTHING

it's blatant and obvious discrediting tactics

[xRECKONERx]

has time to F5 the thread to make pithy quips at me, doesn't have time to actually explain why she thinks im not reading

it's a cute tactic but nah fam

[xRECKONERx]

it's so easy to not engage w/ someone bc youve postured that you think they're not reading

[xRECKONERx]

We will wait for you, don't you worry. Take your time and read out all the syllables and everything. You don't have to speed read or anything. If you get stuck at a word, let me know. I can help you out

i invite you to lick my enormous clitoris actually

[xRECKONERx]

that's like 5 chances on the same page for brigitte to do any number of townie things:

- explain why she thinks im not reading
- engage me on why im scumreading her
- ask questions about my view on her case on ank

instead she does NONE of those things and keeps prattling on about how im not reading and plugging her ears

fuck that

[xRECKONERx]

and brigitte is familiar enough with me (if im right about your alt) to know that continuing to take these jabs & quips will result in me continuing to explode and get angrier, which in turn makes me look worse

this is so fucking blatant

p.edit: yep, exactly that urap2

[xRECKONERx]

you're intentionally provoking him either to avoid engaging with him

DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING

[xRECKONERx]

brigitte: "i dont value your reads or opinions bc you dont read"
me: "uh yes i do why do you think i dont read"
brigitte: "smh typical nonreader you didnt read"

this is a very cool exchange and im very glad that brigitte is outing herself as scum, tyvm

[xRECKONERx]

"i refuse to engage with you because it's amusing" is about the most openly scummy reasoning you could give for refusing to engage with me

[xRECKONERx]

Open URAP2 iso
ctrl+f "skim"

0 results found

[xRECKONERx]

Wow hey Brigitte that's two other people who don't understand your insistence that I'm not reading

Are they just not reading the game too

[xRECKONERx]

The fact that Brigitte is relying on something urap2 said forever ago as a reason to discredit me should be all the proof needed that she's not arguing in good faith

[xRECKONERx]

Open URAP2 iso
ctrl+f "skim"

0 results found

Is this how you been "reading"?

Here's how town responds to this post

"No I actually meant this post here [link]"

[xRECKONERx]

But I am pretty tired of his constant missing things in this game, and he has been doing it a lot. He misses context. He skims incessantly. I am just tired of it.

citation needed

[xRECKONERx]

Wow hey Brigitte that's two other people who don't understand your insistence that I'm not reading

Are they just not reading the game too

Actually, looking back I don't think I discussed this at all

did yall discuss it in your scumtopic instead

[xRECKONERx]

LOL

[xRECKONERx]

choo choo let's get d1 over with

[xRECKONERx]

brigitte: "i can give examples if you want"
urap2: "okay, give examples"
brigitte: "no"

p.edit: yeah, the page i said i skipped bc it was my midweek catchup and i didnt have a ton of time to catch up but wanted to put stuff out there

[xRECKONERx]

k vote brigitte

[xRECKONERx]

Not really interested in the Brigitte votes right now.

As far as I'm following, Brigitte's argument is that Ank's scumread of her feels like OMGUS and completely manufactured because it's just the same thing Brigitte said back at her.

The collective argument against Brigitte is that Reck and Ank think Brigitte's argument is dumb and disagree with it,
urap thinks Brig won't give examples of her argument (and wants to lynch her for it?)
skitter... is voting for Brigitte.
OH! and this is actually legit: Reck thinks Brig is trying to keep him from playing the game by being openly antagonistic. I could see this coming from scum, at least slightly, but coming from a large family w/ plenty of younger brothers, it definitely looks like Ank is the antagonist here.

To sum it up:

Ank looks like she played the role of the little brother, poking and prodding the older sibling just enough to get Brig all riled up, and then ran to mom (Reck) and said "older sibling touched me." This looks like it was pretty intentional to me, and I don't like it.
Urap looked kinda like he was trying to help ank bait brig in, too.

No clue what on earth skitter is doing on that wagon.
Reck looks kinda out of the loop, so I'm going to call him town.

I'm really rather interested in a Nim lynch over anything else right now, but if it's going to be Ank or Brig, I think I'd rather it be Ank.

good god could you miss the mark harder if you tried

people are on brigitte because brig is refusing to engage w/ me and instead is just antagonizing me and going "reck isnt reading the game so idc what he says"
and then people are asking brig why she thinks that about me and she's refusing to answer them or give examples

[xRECKONERx]

again, a town response to this would be "actually ________" with a link to where im wrong but a scum response is to continue discrediting me by saying im not reading

[xRECKONERx]

my vote is staying parked on brigitte like until she's dead k bye

[xRECKONERx]

i dont know what the hell you're talking about with the second one. im not sure what game you're reading because that isn't at all what happened

ank asked me my thoughts on brig's case against ank
i gave my thoughts
brig ignored it and said i wasnt reading
i tried to engage brig multiple times about her opinion, every time she just said i wasnt reading and ignored me and refused to engage

it's a specific discrediting play. i'm not the one who started this shit with brigitte, she flipped around and started ignoring/discrediting me the SECOND i dared disagree with her case on ank
she's free to try to engage me but she has shown me absolutely nothing to make it worth my effort to continue trying to engage her since there's zero good faith there

my vote stays

[xRECKONERx]

my vote is staying parked on brigitte like until she's dead k bye

"I refuse to engage with a player unless she is already prematurely frustrated and emotional, and making further attempts later on is out of the question. I will now sit on her wagon until she is dead. Do not bother engaging with me further."

excuse me?

literally what fucking game are you reading jesus goddamn christ

at what point was brigitte emotional? was she frustrated/emotional all because i disagreed with her case on ank? bc if so, maybe mafia's not the game for her. and if not, then she had EVERY opportunity not to discredit me

you're putting the entire burden on me and giving brigitte a pass

what the fuck

[xRECKONERx]

enter & brigitte being on the same side of things makes this REALLY easy for me

p.edit: i tried to make one fucking post and she immediately snapped back with another jab about me not reading the game
zero good faith
she's welcome to put the first foot forward and try not being a total twat

[xRECKONERx]

potential VLA

my dog has suddenly taken a turn for the worse out of nowhere so if i have to put her down tomorrow im not gonna be in a great headspace for a bit.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: ANK

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: ANK

Why?

i literally don't remember, i was drunk and it was 4am

VOTE: Brigitte

[xRECKONERx]

hi, im back, i will try to get a post up tonight or tomorrow if i can muster the brainpower

[xRECKONERx]

nim is kinda reading townier to me now.

still pref brig but would be happy to go tris

id just like a fucking flip at this point tbh

[xRECKONERx]

i don't know. not for me.

[xRECKONERx]

im not quite sure what you mean by uinversal townread

[xRECKONERx]

im not quite sure what you mean by uinversal townread

If there's no significant disagreement someone being clearly town, I'd consider that someone an universal townread.

i would hella disagree that ank is a universal townread

[xRECKONERx]

man if brigitte flips scum im damn near locktown on chara & tris

[xRECKONERx]

she still has to be like carried up and down stairs but she's stopped yelping so i think the pain is going away

[xRECKONERx]

cant say i particularly regret lynching brig since she refused to do anything other than troll me but uh

im p sure scum play there is to take advantage of the me v brig 1v1 and drive a mislynch.

@mod can we get an actual end of day votecount at some point

by my count the wagon was ank/tris/me/xtoxm/chara/succinct/brig

ank/tris were on the brig wagon before me so they weren't pile-ons, which means id like to look further at xtoxm/chara/succint's jumps onto the wagon. i need to do some rereading but my god this game is 100 pages and we just hit day 2

i guess it's not impossible for ank/tris to be scum there but i really feel like it's more likely to have followed

particularly, i need to reread urap2 and enter and see how i feel about that. my read on the urap2/xtoxm slot was town mostly because of the way urap2 weirdly backed off of NMSA so quickly when realizing he was wrong. need to see if that could be manufactured.

[xRECKONERx]

im hungover as fuck ill read when im not spinning

[xRECKONERx]

I'm lurking and I don't like it but I've hit an entire fucking brick wall with this game and idk why

reading thru the past few pages to try and spark joy.

i feel like creature replacing in and then basically being a nonstarter didnt help. and it's actually suspicious bc it's exactly what scum should do in his situation.

Nim asked how NMSA's 2364 is a town post. I don't particularly see how it's a scum post and again this is not how burden of proof works. The default position for someone to be in mafia is town, you have to prove why they're not. So come back with your own reasons for why that post is scum (If you already posted it, please point me to it).

nim v ank makes me think it's TvS but i honestly, gun to my head, couldn't tell you which was which. ive been really worried ab ank since yesterday with the fake hammer nonsense but im trying not to let my paranoia get the best of me since i townread her before then. ALSO HEY GUYS YOU TWO SPAMMING BACK & FORTH FOR PAGES ON END ISN'T HELPING GAMESTATE.

xtoxm's engagement w/ the game is weird af.

skitter's posts are a bit...unenthused. showing up then just blindly sheeping ank onto nim is a choice. def dropping from the top of my townie list, but still firmly on the town side of the line.

anyway let's do a new readslist without looking at my old one so these are fresh & then ill try to figure out why any changes happened later.

TOWN
{Nim or Ank}
Chara
tris
skitter

NULL/IDFK/LURK
Elbirn
Succinct
xtoxm
NMSA

SCUM
Flubber
Creature
{Nim or Ank}

[xRECKONERx]

actually fuck flubber is town so i need to bump him way up and then figure out who else goes in the scumpile

[xRECKONERx]

too many nonfactors skating by doing fuckall

by which im referencing xtoxm, creature, succinct, elbirn.

id be SHOCKED if there wasn't scum in the replacement pool.
i actually liked succinct's entrance to the game, i remember. but recent posting has left much to be desired (specifically, the indignation at not being spoonfed a game summary + the entirety of the case on flubb being 'meta')

xtoxm had a bizarre entrance and then has done very little. dislike his hop onto the brig wagon yesterday as it kinda came outta nowhere after a lot of nothing and then he's done fuckall d2

creature is pinging me bc of the whole "oh man ah geez i just cant get into this game" which when you're a replacement is kinda underwhelming and lets you hide. coupled with WHO creature replaced (tictac) and the fact tictac contributed fuckall and only had 12 posts, and that slot needs way more hard content.

elbirn i think is town bc the vote hops look kinda natural and the way he ran the fuck away from the brig wagon when, as scum, he could've replaced in and left his vote there while he "caught up" to push the wagon forward

[xRECKONERx]

i think you and nim going back & forth is creating space & reason for people to lurk, yes

i also think like tbh i know im town and when i check the game and see 7 pages of you/nim arguing i mentally check the fuck out and if im doing that as town imagine how easy it would be for scum to hide in that space as well

[xRECKONERx]

oooh yeah i 100% believe the brig wagon was scumtastic and people took advantage of my blind rage at brigite to push it thru

[xRECKONERx]

and the end of day votecount is all fucky because i drunkenly voted off of brigitte and then sobered up and revoted her so it looks like i joined the wagon much later than i did but im pretty sure in actuality i was the first vote on her

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10771677

[xRECKONERx]

what makes you put chara in the townpile ank

[xRECKONERx]

I’m a bit confused here as I don’t see Ank and myself as a 1v1 and also, Skitter didn’t sheep Ank onto me. Ank never voted me. I think Ank is town and reading me incorrectly. Sure there’s a very small part of me that thinks there’s a slight possibility of her being S v S with Skitter but unlikely. I would love it if Ank were scum misreading me here, rather than believe she could ever be this off on me, I just really don’t think so.

Re: Xtoxm. I have to say that his comment on Brigitte hammering NMSA, is at least part of why I initially voted him, so I was very shocked that he instead voted Flubber.

Based on meta, I’m pretty sure this is town!Creature we’re seeing here.

Agree on Chara and Tris.

i didnt say you were a 1v1, i just said yalls interactions were pinging me as opposite alignments, basically

idgaf about meta. meta is trash

[xRECKONERx]

@succinct: Flubber pings me as town bc of the votehops. they don't seem calculated, they seem to be occurring to flubber as he plays. idk if he could fake that as scum.

@nim: what's your read on me?

[xRECKONERx]

@succinct: Flubber pings me as town bc of the votehops. they don't seem calculated, they seem to be occurring to flubber as he plays. idk if he could fake that as scum.

@nim: what's your read on me?

is Flubber very calculating as scum?

i dont know because meta is garbage

[xRECKONERx]

jfc the replace outs in this game

get real

[xRECKONERx]

I've completely lost my will to win this game, it died after the D1 lynch, and now it feels like diving into a pool of molasses just reading the thread. I'm perfectly willing to sheep Ank or skitter or someone if it will just get this game to the end or at least to a point where the game is moving fast than 2 posts a day. If Ank is scum taking advantage to lead town astray, then screw it the scumteam deserves the win because I just don't care enough anymore. VOTE: Flubber, I hope it's not L-1 or a hammer cause I'm sure not checking.

AUGHHH I WANT TO WRITE OFF NMSA SO BAD BUT THIS

IS

SO

FUCKING

TERRIBLE

[xRECKONERx]

you say that like this conversation was pointless to me.
VOTE: Xtoxm

this vote appeals to me and chara's reasoning lines up pretty well

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: xtoxm

holy shit i wasn't voting

[xRECKONERx]

AUGHHH I WANT TO WRITE OFF NMSA SO BAD BUT THIS

IS

SO

FUCKING

TERRIBLE

no, you're right. that post brought nmsa down to scumlean from null.

also stop trying to pocket me, you know i'm weak to players agreeing with my reasoning.

do i??? how would i know that? have we even played together?

[xRECKONERx]

ank threatening the gamestate if we dont power thru ur preferred lynch is uh not a great look

[xRECKONERx]

ank threatening the gamestate if we dont power thru ur preferred lynch is uh not a great look

What specific post is this responding to

you saying if you didn't get your lynch you'd have to disengage

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Flubber L-1

[xRECKONERx]

wait no VOTE: xtoxm

i think flub is town

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Flubber L-1

wait no VOTE: xtoxm

i think flub is town

Why?

ive explained this already im not going to do your work for you

[xRECKONERx]

I think Flubber is town. I think I disagree with a lot of what he says, but it all seems real to me.

I hate how xtoxm is acting here. It has that same wifom as Brigitte. But, I'm struggling to find somewhere better to vote.

VOTE: xtoxm

It's almost 3:30am here. goodnight.

but brigitte flipped town?

this reasoning is horse shit and might be a borderline scumslip

[xRECKONERx]

my issue with that post is huge:

tris is pushing xtoxm using the same reasoning she used to push brigitte
but brigitte flipped town
i would expect town to reevaluate their reads on a townflip
but i think tris shows here that she's just pushing people's names out there without any actual thought behind the push?

argh im trying so hard to get the words out of my head that im thinking

basically, tris is on autopilot pushing on one of the major wagons and using shitty reasoning to get on board that resulted in a town flip last time but it doesn't occur to tris that is bad because tris is scum therefore everyone else is the same alignment so why would she need to change up her push/reasons/etc

god that's so confusing. ill try to step away and rethink how i can communicate my reasoning better

VOTE: tris

[xRECKONERx]

eh kinda

i think for me the key ingredient in whatever bullshit cake i just made is that, as scum, tris has no reason to ever reconsider her reasons for pushing people in light of the brigitte flip

so she just goes "eh this is kinda the same thing as brigitte" and tosses a vote

like i am so confident xtoxm would flip town and it's pretty much based solely on the way tris hopped on the wagon

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Tris

To be clear NMSA is still spewing unsatisfactory nonsense but tris is maybe actually viable and also scum so let's go family

tbf id wagon nsma

[xRECKONERx]

it's flipping town for sure.

what a fucking twat

[xRECKONERx]

So clearly my late unnecessary hammer vote is gonna look like opportunistic scum trying to get towncred if xtoxm flips scum, is there any good way to avoid accidental hammering, or should I just read through the whole thread before voting?

what

the

fuck

is

this

post

[xRECKONERx]

i have been very clearly off the mark and got got by flubber's random play

i need to reevaluate this game. i still think tris is a good lynch but after the flub flip i dont feel so great about my ability to read anyone.

[xRECKONERx]

like i can't even argue with people wanting to lynch me. my defense of flubber looks really really bad and i cannot defend it because it was shit based on gut. and couple that with me leading the brigitte charge d1 and yeah, i get the desire to lynch me. im not even sure i particularly have it in me to fight the lynch because it's deserved.

[xRECKONERx]

can you explain those two times you had Flubber as scum/voted him then said he's town immediately after?

i kinda latched onto flub's d1 play where he was being flighty and vote hopping and my read on it was scum would be more careful about their vote switches

but the way flub was doing it was so loud and in your face that i couldn't help but think it had to be town due to attitude

then i kept seeing him do scummy things and would vote him only to remind myself "wait shit he did that stuff early game that makes him town" so i unvoted

im all fucked up about it now. cuz like i see elbirn doing something very similar to flub in terms of playstyle and find myself reading him town for it. but i was wrong about flub.
creature is doing nothing too.

chara, you're my top townread by far.

NMSA/tris are my top two scumreads but that feels too fucking easy. with this setup there's no way this is a slam dunk

[xRECKONERx]

i am not sure what case you want me to reply to chara

[xRECKONERx]

i am not sure what case you want me to reply to chara

i threw a bunch of thoughts on you being scum into the thread when the day started, was wondering if you looked.

why am i your top townread? i'd really like you to go into that. especially since i'm not sure it would leave anyone besides Elbirn as a Flubber buddy who got the lynch off of him.

your thought process looks genuine. like you're actually trying to solve the game and don't know what's going on. nothing you post feels like it has any agenda behind it other than "figure shit out". even when you disagree with me, i read your posts and find myself at least appreciating how you reached those points.

my interpretation of your case on me was basically that you PoE'd me + you didn't like my vote/unvote on flubb. and you think that me agreeing with your xtoxm read was bad. i mean it was. i can't really say much else. like the most defense i can give you is that if i was scum w/ flubber, im intelligent enough

not

to be so fucking awkward around him as to vote him then unvote TWICE.

p.edit: No, my reads haven't been effected by the Flub flip other than me feeling like shit thus far and questioning everything. but you raise good points about both ank and tris being likely town due to their pushes/being pushed. im still processing things.

[xRECKONERx]

what makes you put chara in the townpile ank

talk about this?

my faith in my read on ank was wavering so i was trying to engage him to discuss one of his reads esp since ank had given reasons for the townread on tris but to my knowledge hadn't given any for you

[xRECKONERx]

Well then. This changes a lot. Given the aforementioned case on why tris is town, and the fact that I know I'm town, reck almost certainly scumreads two town players. Even if I'm not obvtown, tris is because Flubber and scum in general wouldn't be that suicidal. This means reck is more likely than average to be scum. VOTE: reck

so brave

[xRECKONERx]

i really need to get a better feel for what succinct is doing. they've been completely off my radar like the entire game

[xRECKONERx]

So like, thinking about it, if scum could evacuate Flubber vs NMSA, wouldn't they choose NMSA since he had been under pressure literally the entire game?

[xRECKONERx]

Succinct's "meta" read on me is fucking wild and I feel like he's trying to pocket or whiteknight me but I have nothing to go on other than that one post. So naturally, let's go do the ISO and see what pops up.

- Succinct 2165: Puts Flubbernugget on the bottom of his reads list with Brigitte. Not sure if town or risky scum "bussing" without actually "bussing"
- Succinct 2394: Joins Flubber wagon after Brigitte. Townread on xtoxm/chara.


okay actually imma just stop there because im remembering Enter was Succinct previously and that slot is just town. plus the push on flubber. moving on for now. succinct can get a pass. if it was a bus, it was pretty well done and the chances of me being convinced that it was a bus at this time are very low

[xRECKONERx]

okay, good points on NMSA.

Flubbernugget: I don't like much about the slot other than the name, but I'm willing to buy that he's sick and that it's preventing him from playing much. Null.

This is a really gross null read that hand waves having to provide real content on Flub by leaning on out of game stuff.

flubbernugget, not sure, I could see either, more involved interaction will help the read

Another fence sit on Flub later on.

Also of note is that the original NMSA wagon is the only time that all three of them aren't voting different people or unvoted entirely

Based on how scattered all the votes were in general even when there was a concentrated push on 1-2 slots, and considering they all never voted together even at the end of the day 1 wagons, that's indicative to me that there's something here

I believe tris is town and the wagon was mostly town lead (barring skitter, I think the unvote was a mistake if she was scum here)
Succinct wouldn't be scum with this
Neither would Chara
Nor xRECKONERx
Elbirn is probtown

Flubbernugget/Xtoxm/Nimueh > skitter30 > NMSA > Creature

This is roughly where I'm at

I like this, not sure why though

Now Flubber's in the town pile? Conveniently parroting Ank? Makes sense with NMSAscum/Anktown

I've completely lost my will to win this game, it died after the D1 lynch, and now it feels like diving into a pool of molasses just reading the thread. I'm perfectly willing to sheep Ank or skitter or someone if it will just get this game to the end or at least to a point where the game is moving fast than 2 posts a day. If Ank is scum taking advantage to lead town astray, then screw it the scumteam deserves the win because I just don't care enough anymore. VOTE: Flubber, I hope it's not L-1 or a hammer cause I'm sure not checking.

I'm not sure about this. Knowing the Flubber flip it kinda changes how I felt about it at the time. Would NMSA really come in and post an effortless post like this just to bus a scumbuddy?

VOTE: Flubber L-1

wait no VOTE: xtoxm

i think flub is town

Why?

And then questioning my townread on Flubber... someone NMSA agreed was town earlier... after saying he was null?

There's no read progression on Flubber and it's really weird to me. Null, null, now suddenly I agree with Ank that Flubber is town despite giving no reasons... then show up, vote him out of nowhere, and question why Reck is townreading him?

@NMSA: Can you talk me through your read progression on Flub?

[xRECKONERx]

bussing is suicidal since the byproduct of bussing is not just losing a townie, but having to publicly confirm HALF the game

[xRECKONERx]

What a nice, effective, pro-town way of answering my question. I can't remember if I did this already, so VOTE: reck.

Do you think it's pro-town to ask questions I already answered multiple times?

[xRECKONERx]

Sure. As you guys can probably tell by my crappy play and join date, I'm new and bad at reading people, so I usually start off games with very few strong reads unless someone has been really scummy. I had no clue on flubber for a while because he had barely posted because he was sick. I had a positive gut reaction to Ank's post, and I was fine agreeing since I still had nothing on Flubber at that point. My flubber vote (which would have confirmed five town had he actually been lynched) came at a time when I hated the level of activity and just wanted the game to start moving or end. When you flipped your vote from flubber (who ended up flipping scum, incidentally) to xtoxm (who ended up flipping town, incidentally), I thought it looked odd enough to ask you why. Your response was extremely useful and explanatory, and not at all a passive-aggressive way of avoiding it.

I'm not sure how you turned me asking you for your progression on Flubber into attacking/discrediting me, but good job.
Again: it's not like I just hopped off him for no reason. I told you I already explained it and didn't feel like explaining myself again. That's not scummy. That's called being frustrated that you're half assing the game and not putting any effort in, then expecting other people to put in effort for you. I have no idea if you're scum or town, I'm not gonna bend over backwards to help you do the basic act of playing the game.

[xRECKONERx]

Reck makes the most sense as scum here. more than NMSA. i'm trying to get past how he's approaching this day, but considering it got me to unvote him i wonder if scum Reck's approach was exactly what he meant to do.

I'm not sure -- do you really think as scum, I would panic vote and unvote my buddy TWICE? Like, I haven't been scum in a game in at least 3 years, probably closer to 4 years. I don't know what my "meta" is and meta is trash anyway, but I think my

skill level

shows that I'm not godawful at this game.

[xRECKONERx]

I am realizing I have zero read on Nimueh and that ISO is intimidating to even start to jump into.

NMSA is a mixed bag for me, but the wild random vote on Flubber is sticking out to me as a reason to show hesitance on a scumread.
Chara is town.
Succinct is town.

Something keeps bugging me about Ank. I don't know what it is. Every logical bone in my body says she should be town but I keep getting premonition flashes of "this is the mastermind that pulled this whole thing off" and it eats away at me. I think Ank's continued reprisal of "omg this is so outside my scum range" is what's really bugging me. I hate self meta, especially when it is repeated over and over as a way to clear yourself as town.

I read skitter as town earlier. That has kinda faded. Esp since skitter's biggest read on Flubber was "gut-town" which is a very comfortable place to put a scumbuddy in your reads list. Flubber "moved" between null and back up to town. That sticks out as weird early movement for me. skitter calling out the resistance to the wagon yesterday has me thinking townier, and then the "i forgot flubber was in the game and would vote him" comment looks town too. I dunno, there's an outside chance skitter is playing a masterful scum game but those two comments seem natural enough to me.

Also just to defend myself: Flubber did the EXACT same thing to me that I did to him (voted, then turned around and said "wait no" and quickly unvoted). That is just so bizarre to me that people could read those interactions as SvS. It's just wild to me. He went out of his way to avoid me after that, I think because I was the loudest person calling him town, so why not just ride the idiot townie who is screaming to the game how town you are?

anyway, my overall reads list probably looks something like this, gun to my head

TOWN
Succinct
Chara
---gap---
tris
skitter
Ank
---gap---
NotMySpamAccount
Creature
---gap---
Elbirn
Nimueh
SCUM

elbirn/nim are kinda there by virtue of me having no read on them yet and having like at least some reason to argue everyone else on that list could be town (which is better than 0 reasons)

[xRECKONERx]

the vote hopping and lack of giving a fuck about appearances said townie to me, idk what you want. it's my honest opinion

[xRECKONERx]

then i kept seeing him do scummy things and would vote him only to remind myself "wait shit he did that stuff early game that makes him town" so i unvoted

like i guess idk why that early stuff made such a strong impression on you that it kept on making you unvote even after seeing him do scummy stuff later

I really like leaning on early gut reads since I think first impressions are really strong

[xRECKONERx]

3150 was made at 12:50 pm.

So NMSA actually voted for Xtoxm twice but since the second vote was post-hammerUNVOTE: , it wouldn’t get counted, approximately 7 hours before Xtoxm self-hammered.

So, Reck can probably only be scum with Elbirn and Skitter probably only with NMSA, so gun to head, I think scum is Flubber/NMSA/Skitter.

I think NMSA “hammered” because he knew his vote wouldn’t be counted post-hammer and that no one would notice but thankfully Tris caught that.

So rn, I want to vote for one of them I think.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: NMSA

i am trying to follow this. what.

[xRECKONERx]

god i have no energy to read 5 pages of nim spamposting drama

[xRECKONERx]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

[xRECKONERx]

i thought NMSA was clear because he almost hammered flub

is that not the case anymore

i really thought i had the brainpower for this tonight. gonna go eat enchiladas instead. ill check back in after a few margaritas and pray to whatever god is out there that someone besides nim is posting

[xRECKONERx]

fwiw, i think nim is town. i just can't with the spamposting and hyperantics

[xRECKONERx]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

[xRECKONERx]

At least 1 and probably 2 of reck/elbirn/nim are scum. lynch one today, we win, or one leaves tonight, and we determine if the last is scum or not. that's how we win this. leaning towards scum!reck, so I'd lynch there today. also, people going on about my fakehammer, I didn't even realize I had already voted, that's how low my motivation to care was

can you explain using actual words why you read me as scum

[xRECKONERx]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

ok what subtext do you think i'm ignoring in this specific context?

the way he and i interacted does not look SvS (then again im probably biased)

like, townies accidentally defend scum all the time. look past it.

[xRECKONERx]

ok but if there's no other tethers besides the fact i defended him then where does that leave you
like seriously.
me and flub both doing the "vote someone oh shit unvote immediately" thing d1?
flub specifically ignoring me because i was pushing his name out as town?

idk man i feel like im not so bad i would play this way if flub was my buddy

[xRECKONERx]

what the christ man

[xRECKONERx]

like i can't even argue with people wanting to lynch me. my defense of flubber looks really really bad and i cannot defend it because it was shit based on gut. and couple that with me leading the brigitte charge d1 and yeah, i get the desire to lynch me. im not even sure i particularly have it in me to fight the lynch because it's deserved.

this in comparison to Reck's current argument that town doesn't act like he did with Flubber feels a little disingenous.
it's also strange to me that he brings up Flubber avoiding him when Reck didn't seem to notice that until after the fact, like he read through his own ISO with Flubber's looking at interactions.

i did

[xRECKONERx]

like i literally did go back and be like "okay how can i show that im town via interactions w/ flubber"

like that's a wild accusation to be like "therefore reck is scum"

i looked in flub's iso ctrl+f for my name

[xRECKONERx]

what changed your mind on your interactions looking really bad?
why weren't you suspicious of mine?

not sure i follow?

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

however, i think the interactions between me n flub arent svs if you really look at them with a deeper critical eye

[xRECKONERx]

Maybe you could, I dunno, give a single reason why anyone should vote Succinct?

I hate alts.

[xRECKONERx]

Has he done anything

scummy

? Because what you just said was "I see no town reasons" which to me would mean a null read not a scum read.

[xRECKONERx]

So you think Succinct bussed Flub in a high risk play?

[xRECKONERx]

I see. I respect your conclusion. I just don't think I'm ready to vote Succinct based on this argument.

[xRECKONERx]

not sure i follow?

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

however, i think the interactions between me n flub arent svs if you really look at them with a deeper critical eye

i do think that if you're scum with Flubber, your interactions with him are pretty ridiculous and would indicate misplays as scum.
but i'm not comfortable ignoring the possibility that scum you made a mistake, because it's easier to see why scum you makes those decisions in error, as scum (distancing mistakes), than why town you does it. (forgetting that you townread him a few times is just so strange to me.)

this isn't AtE but i do need to say this for context:
i have an extremely bad drinking problem and uh a lot of those "forgetting" moments happen when i've already been drinking and just blindly barge into thread and try to read and then have a moment of clarity of "wait no"

i don't expect that to change your mind, but i wanted to put it out there. i forget that most of the people who know me IRL and have known me a long time dont really play on the site anymore or have moved on to mish mash so some of those things about me that i think are obvious arent as obvious to the playerbase anymore

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

Mister Reck, there is also more subtext to interactions than MAN VOTE BAD MAN MAN TOWN MAN. I truly hope that this could dispel your Succinct townread that may be solely on the basis of his vote on Flubber.

this is actually a really salient point, i think. like i actually sat back and went "....huh"

i guess what im struggling with is the idea that Succinct would risk his buddy dying in that way. you yourself have said scum aren't going to bus in this setup, so why do you think Succinct is the exception to the rule?

[xRECKONERx]

that wasn't very succinct

[xRECKONERx]

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

like are you usually this bad as town?

i don't know. i used to not be. i play like 1 or 2 games a year now so i dont really know if im bad

[xRECKONERx]

like i won paragon fucking 7 years ago

this is the first game ive played this year
last year i actually played more games than i have a long time, all as town, and i was 3-4 with a mix of being left till endgame and dying early
2017 i played two games as town and i won both
2016 i played a micro as scum that lasted like no time at all and then i played a large theme as town and lost

so actually yeah i guess im just shit now

[xRECKONERx]

okay wow yeah tris is town

[xRECKONERx]

updated quick readslist

TOWN
tris
Chara
---gap---
Nimueh
Torhu
Succinct
skitter
---gap---
Creature
NotMySpamAccount
Elbirn
SCUM

[xRECKONERx]

my thoughts on elbirn:

he entered the game pretty jokey and distant. his early contributions are emptyreads with no reasoning and promise of catchup. honestly... this post in particular is standing out to me:

UNVOTE:

Since my slot is voting Brigitte for God knows what reason

VOTE: TicTac

So I can be on the incredibly fortuitous tictac wagon being driven by literally all my townreads

Hooray I'm becoming more aware of the game state

it feels like virtue signalling on the brigitte wagon. like for someone who had barely read and claimed to have only read to p10, saying my slot is voting brigitte for "some god unknown reason" feels really broad? and bombastic? and like maybe a way to look good hopping off a townwagon being driven by town?

then after a bunch of fluffy shit and promises to catch up... we get elbirn claiming he's just not gonna read anymore and the game starts now. with what is essentially an RVS vote on Chara for "being mean to skitter"
......after

900 posts

between his entry and this post, he is still doing RVS jokey bullshit.

when we do get content from him, it's a quick meta read on creature, then AtE of "maaaan ive totally beeing wanting a scum game since 2015!" and some self-meta. coupled with a push on both xtoxm/nimueh.

he also comes up with some plan to "make scum shoot him". is this a scumslip? most of the game thought the game had no nightkills at that point (i know i did) but he knows scum get a kill at some point?

elbirn continues to push on skitter. he then does a quick vote on skitter then goes "actually wait why arent we voting tris" and manuevers onto tris.

then we get a flip and the game is slow and rather than contribute elbirn goes "man this game is weirdly quiet with a flip and new day start". like.... ok...... then why not give content yourself? you're actively being guilty of the same thing you're complaining to other people about

he also soft pushes on me saying i said "gross shit" but nobody cares so he's just insane. which is funny considering he literally never not once mentioned any of that "gross shit" i did?

he asks ank to

spoon feed him a reason to vote flubber

. that's highly sus with the flub flip. it's like he didn't want to be tied to flubber but was holding out and making people "convince" him because the longer he dilly-dallies the less likely the wagon gets momentum. that seems like scum hedging his bets.

he goes back AGAIN to ank and says "man idk why flub is scum can you explain lets compare notes". this is like PAGES later and over 24h later.

then randomly he's back on tris again after dropping that push entirely for half the game.

actually halfway through this i have realized i have something to say about 3363/3361 so this is a note to myself to make a separate post about it later so i dont muck up the flow of this one.

he comes back and says if nmsa is scum then scum would evac him before flub which completely ignores the flub IC claim.

elbirn also throws a bullshit soft scumread on me to explain why he won't vote NMSA

and then he goes back to the d1 brig lynch and uses tris being the counterwagon as a reason to push tris. it's so lazy.

now we have elbirn joining the easy succinct wagon after the replacement has made it a popular option.

his response to succinct's points on him in 4030/4031 is... *audible fart noise*


so yeah


VOTE: Elbirn

**audible fart noise**

[xRECKONERx]

my gut instinct is to say Elbirn looks bad here given Xtoxm town and Flubber scum, but i have to believe that scum Elbirn would be a lot more careful about outright defending Flubber here, so i don't really believe he's one of the scum either right now.

my gut instinct is to say Elbirn looks bad here given Xtoxm town and Flubber scum, but i have to believe that scum Elbirn would be a lot more careful about outright defending Flubber here, so i don't really believe he's one of the scum either right now.

Thank you for your understanding

coming back to this:

this is very weird to me and it highlights something that pinged me about chara

chara has continued to suspect me and when i point out i wouldn't be that bad as scum as to have the interactions i had with flubber, it hasn't resonated with chara at all

HOWEVER

here, chara waves away a scumread on elbirn by saying "oh elbirn would totally be a lot more careful about his interactions with flubber"

so...
when i have weird interactions with flub that would be IDIOTIC to have as scum v scum... it doesn't land completely with chara
but when elbirn has weird interactions with flub that would be IDIOTIC to have as scum v scum... well, duh, of course elbirn would be more careful!

sour taste in my mouth

[xRECKONERx]

and that outright defending Flubber is also not really what you were doing, which i why it made me suspicious to begin with.

wdym

[xRECKONERx]

(@reck if you're on the wrong wagon for a third day in a row .... that would be like stretching credulity at that point, no matter how bad you say your play is rn)

this is wild

considering that ank/tris/me/chara were on both wrong wagons why are you only applying this "3 strikes you're out" scrutiny to me?