Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: skitter

[Flubbernugget]

Fighting a 103 fever

Consider this prodge an informal vla

[Flubbernugget]

Initial reads from town to scum

Brigitte
Skitter

Reck/Enter

Nmsa

[Flubbernugget]

UNVOTE:

[Flubbernugget]

I've made one post and you're already that mad?

[Flubbernugget]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10759465]post 269[/url], xRECKONERx"]empty reads are worthless[/quote]
Idk they're suggesting your anger is fake

[Flubbernugget]

Anyway skitter and brigette are gut town

Reck/Enter I'm not 100% sure what to make of. Reck's gripe that Enter's reads were inconsistent on page 2 is just as contrived as Enter defending himself

NMSA's vote on urap is awful. OMGUS isn't AI in and of itself, but not being able to explain a scum read you OMGUS is. Scumreading his wagon without getting into specifics is an idle threat. Playstyle excuse doesn't justify a lack of reads and a lack of advancing the game. And I don't get the Brigitte vote at all. Looks like we bagged a newbscum here.

[Flubbernugget]

Not JUST WIFOM, I mean, but it wouldn't surprise me if we've got some hard bussers that don't trust a buddy in this one.

I have no clue how you're reading that as a bus. I'm keeping them off L1 to keep the day from ending early

[Flubbernugget]

I can get a better grip on the game when I'm actually posting.

Who else are you scum reading?

[Flubbernugget]

Reck/Enter I'm not 100% sure what to make of. R

eck's gripe that Enter's reads were inconsistent on page 2 is just as contrived

as Enter defending himself

me and reck had the same stance there so i'm kinda confused why i'm getting townreads for this tbh

Are you specifically calling out my read? In a vacuum sheeping reck would (maybe?) be scummy but you can't hobestly think I'd look at those posts and go "yeah this makes skitter town"

[Flubbernugget]

Not JUST WIFOM, I mean, but it wouldn't surprise me if we've got some hard bussers that don't trust a buddy in this one.

I have no clue how you're reading that as a bus. I'm keeping them off L1 to keep the day from ending early

@enter

[Flubbernugget]

I'm pretty much in the game now

[Flubbernugget]

A lot of people gave Skitter a townread for the early general reactions, but I felt like her overall approach and what she's specifically saying is a lot more scum indicative than town indicative.

*early general interactions

I'd also like to point out that I think her general response is something I'd expect someone with her general playstyle to do as both alignments.

Can you elaborate?

[Flubbernugget]

Recks play does not feel natural at all

Rereading i noticed i missed some questions directed at me. I will get back to that soon

[Flubbernugget]

Urap, why is nmsa no longer your top scum read?

VOTE: reck

[Flubbernugget]

I know there's stuff i have to answer but quoting on mobile sucks

[Flubbernugget]

Actually UNVOTE: VOTE: nmsa

[Flubbernugget]

Im not lurking. And I am interested in his catch up. Not saying much more at the moment.

[Flubbernugget]

That makes your hesitance to vote Enter very bizarre

[Flubbernugget]

Is that a scum read?

Sure why not

[Flubbernugget]

As much as both of his main pushes skeeve me out reck looks better after his reads list than before. The fake anger thing I pointed out stemmed from the fact that I really didn't see anything that looked like provocation from me or Enter to actually irritate him in any reasonable way. It made his posting seem like he was more playing to a character than being genuinely crass. That was why I decided to unvote for him when the wagon was forming. I wanted as few irritants to reck at the time to see what he would and wouldn't get pissy about. That ended up being moot by the LAL push anyway.

As previously mentioned, I'm liking urap for scum. His pushes off the nmsa wagon were basically just a few new votes and wagon solicitations. And when nothing happened, they just tried the same thing with a new head. It's not really a productive way to try and form reads and doesn't come off as actually trying to solve the game.

Ank is looking pretty scummy too.

[Flubbernugget]

738 made me chuckle

Pedit: it's day1. I don't try to game solve d1 and even if I did nmsa is the kind of player scum busses

Pedit LET ME POST ASSHOLES

[Flubbernugget]

There is zero reason to town read anything about the fake hammer

[Flubbernugget]

Oh, I got urap and nmsa backwards wrt ank.

Urap isn't getting lynched today. You're not distancing as hard as you think you are.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not townreading the fake hammer

Just the events around it? Same diff

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: nmsa

[Flubbernugget]

it's another fake hammer

ill tell you hwhat

here's a real one

VOTE: NSMA

Why

[Flubbernugget]

Fair

[Flubbernugget]

i feel like there's something wonky in your logic somewhere or that i'm missing something in this convo but i'm a little too tired rn to sort out what's bothering me exactly rn, so i think i'm just going to drop this specific line of inquiry until i figure it out

p-edit @ank

Not fully caught up but I wanted to get back to this

Remember how many times urap was scum reading nmsa but still tried to get wagons going elsewhere?

[Flubbernugget]

mod

I can be taken off V/LA, please and thank you.

[Flubbernugget]

@Brigitte I think I'm scum reading this fake hammer in particular. What do you think?

VOTE: nmsa

You've had one scum read the whole game that was wrong, and this is the best you can do to find scum? Shade a blatant troll vote based on the first fake hammer?

You're not gamesolving because you can't gamesolve because you're scum.

VOTE: urap

[Flubbernugget]

Are you still mad that i dont scumhunt with preflips?

[Flubbernugget]

That's a yes

[Flubbernugget]

So, you're mad about my trajectory being "established" but not the player who can't fake a trajectory (and has been unable to the entire game)?

See, this is why people are frustrated about your playstyle. Because you have nothing to gain by holding stupid conclusions to your chest other than making it harder for other people to read you.

[Flubbernugget]

what's your read on Ankamius?

Weakest of my scumreads

[Flubbernugget]

Hey skitter,

Do you still want an ank wagon?

[Flubbernugget]

yes I'm mad

I'm positively fuming that you're acting like scum

discredits Flubber's word choice (being "mad" means "scumreading me because" in this context and Ank of course knows this) by trolling and doesn't engage with his argument at all.
i don't know if this is scummy, maybe i would be reading it as scummy in a vacuum but i feel like Ankamius is just like this. but i don't really like it.

Flubber: when you talked about people being frustrated with her playstyle, it sounded like you were one of them. but i find her playing close to her chest is only frustrating if she's concealing town thoughts, not scum thoughts.

Honestly, I don't recall who is frustrated and who isn't. But the whole ordeal is reminiscent of how people used to describe my play years ago, and the only thing I was good at back then was pissing people off.

This is also why ank is one of my weaker scum reads and I haven't elaborated much on the read. I can't really articulate what I discern between bad play and scum play with them.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm making fun of the fact that his word choice is completely ridiculous

It's clear enough to understand and refute if you ever decide that's a good use of your time (it is btw)

[Flubbernugget]

because that's how I talk. Chara elaborated on my word choice, and they're 100% correct in how I meant it.

[Flubbernugget]

this is such a bizarre conversation

[Flubbernugget]

slots I've felt has held to a pretty consistent thought process this entire game

Are we reading the same game?

They literally admitted otherwise.

[Flubbernugget]

There absolutely is a "town can be inconsistent" conversation here, and I'd love to have it. But that's not going to happen if the raw facts are to be denied.

[Flubbernugget]

i still think u2's turnaround there is more towny than not. and it's hard to tell if a random fakehammer amid another fakehammer is trolling or not when you don't actually comment on it.
so u2 bringing it up for discussion didn't strike me as bad.

i also don't think consistency is towny, anyway, but i might have accepted that Ank's thought processes are drastically different from mine.

pedit: hahaha. of course you'd say that after i've typed this.

I think in a bubble, urap asking about my fakehammer is fine. When there's not much more in the way of looking for scum reads than "here's what my memory serves, a bunch of gut town reads," it's a straw grasp and an attempt to look town.

[Flubbernugget]

slots I've felt has held to a pretty consistent thought process this entire game

Are we reading the same game?

They literally admitted otherwise.

There absolutely is a "town can be inconsistent" conversation here, and I'd love to have it. But that's not going to happen if the raw facts are to be denied.

consistent reads =/= consistent thought process

Uhhhh

I guess if we farted to get reads onto paper instead of thinking about them or something

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not seeing a difference and I'm still not interested in working through it to have a conversation on that basis either, sorry.

[Flubbernugget]

No. It has nothing to do with consistency.

[Flubbernugget]

You sitting on the nmsa wagon and being completely unable to scumhunt anywhere else.

[Flubbernugget]

You sitting on the nmsa wagon and being completely unable to scumhunt anywhere else.

But, he's not on the NMSA wagon anymore. And he is scumhunting elsewhere.

First one is true.

Second one is not, and I discussed why

[Flubbernugget]

Are these not looking for scum reads?

So you quoted urap throwing shade at chara and following up on it by *checks notes* ...voting for tictac, and some vague wagon analysis that also has no follow up?

Why am I supposed to take either of those seriously?

[Flubbernugget]

This is infuriating. You all need to at least start casing your wagons if mine aren't good enough.

[Flubbernugget]

Do you plan to catch up or just start getting into the game?

[Flubbernugget]

Why are you asking about reck specifically?

[Flubbernugget]

What pinged you?

[Flubbernugget]

If you're doing ISOs i would ask you to ISO me and urap 2 next

[Flubbernugget]

I want to know why Ankimius is voting you.

You and everyone else lmao

[Flubbernugget]

Alright, time's up.


You called tictac lynchbait but you think someone putting their vote on someone who hadn't really posted much at all is bad?
And you're only concerned with people getting their votes off of you, not concerned with why people put their votes there in the first place.

You're harping on someone that just got into the game before they can get a full grasp of it, and it's a bad look.

What about you, do you think urap is scumhunting too?

[Flubbernugget]

Why are you asking about reck specifically?

Because he’s pinging me. I am not fully caught up but I read his ISO after he put NMSA at L-1.

go on, use your big adult words to tell the class what is pinging you

Most of your time for activity is on the weekends right? Is this really all that got your attention?

[Flubbernugget]

Why do you object to my Nimueh push but you didn't object to the tictac votes? Nimueh is in the game thread posting scummy things and tictac isn't here at all and hasn't been for several days. How do you justify not being here most of the week with exemption from presure?

I literally...LITERALLY just said people need to stop sitting on wagons with no cases. Maybe if you stopped spam posting every chance you got and actually READ something once, there wouldn't be constant bouts of inactivity that are partially the work of an apathy you keep causing?

[Flubbernugget]

I give up. Just ignore me because you’re not listening to anything I’m saying and I’m not feeling well enough to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Please do my my sanity's sake as well

[Flubbernugget]

For my

[Flubbernugget]

I JUST FUCKING DID

[Flubbernugget]

Right off the top of my head the game has settled on a lurker wagon despite it being page 46, and elbrin is struggling to catch up.

And I'm sorry, point me to what other wagon that could

possibly

be about other than tictacs.

Pedit: every single vote on that wagon is some garbage troll vote and you know it. Stop playing dumb.

[Flubbernugget]

Lmao

[Flubbernugget]

Right off the top of my head the game has settled on a lurker wagon despite it being page 46, and elbrin is struggling to catch up.

And I'm sorry, point me to what other wagon that could

possibly

be about other than tictacs.

Pedit: every single vote on that wagon is some garbage troll vote and you know it. Stop playing dumb.

Saying THIS is a lot different from saying "start casing your wagons" and you know it.

I mean votes without explanations really arent acceptable towards the late game phase

[Flubbernugget]

I mean votes without explanations really arent acceptable towards the late game phase

You're right, my bad. No one said anything about tictac pinging them and absolutely NO ONE said ANYTHING about LaL!

"Ping" is lazy at best and LaL is policy so try again

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: ankamius[\v]

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: ankamius

[Flubbernugget]

can't say I'm surprised you're joining this one flubber

...duh?

[Flubbernugget]

I am going to have to find time to read interactions again, but not wanting to engage someone that consistently acts like an insufferable jackass isn't AI, even if it's not pro-town

[Flubbernugget]

ngl one of the reasons why i'm fine townbinning you for now is because i figure that if you're scum it'll probably become obvious if you never die (i guess i keep forgetting that the game is nightless rn so maybe this isn't the best idea)

Why do you expect an ank nk?

[Flubbernugget]

i think that Flubber's reads are rather controversial, that he's genuinely frustrated, and that even though his thought process isn't entirely transparent to me with his conclusions i'm still not seeing where the scum part is. weird isn't scum.

This is like 99% people fighting back and forth in high volume, coming to their own conclusion, and having the reasoning peppered in it all. So if I make a single post summarizing someone's play, it gets lost in the shuffle.

And yes, it is insanely frustrating, and probabaly why my reads are "controversial" too.

[Flubbernugget]

Still not really interested in a brigette wagon

[Flubbernugget]

Im falling super behind sorry

[Flubbernugget]

Chara's reads list makes a lot of the null-scum reads she's been getting make more sense

Something about skitter's approach to this game being nightless pinged me but that was from a morning skim and I don't really rsmber what it was but i still think theyre town

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: tris

Would much rather take this over brigette

[Flubbernugget]

That's not particularly enlightening

[Flubbernugget]

That you don't have one.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm feeling better about it than I was 30 seconds ago

[Flubbernugget]

Tris wagon came after brigette wagon right? Not intrested in looking for scum there.

[Flubbernugget]

Votecount 1.14

tris(5)

~ skitter30(221), Brigitte(240), Elbirn(217), Creature(36), Flubbernugget(78)

Brigitte(4)

~ Ankamius(304), tris(119), xRECKONERx(124), Xtoxm(255)

skitter30(1)

~ Nimueh(192)

Nimueh(1)

~ NotMySpamAccount(79)

Elbirn(1)

~ Chara(137)

Ankamius(1)

~ Succinct(55)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-08 00:58:59).

Mod Notes:

skitter30 is V/LA on weekends.
Nimueh is V/LA while sick.

Around here-ish is when I feel the lynch was locked into tris/brigette. Maybe I'm wrong on tris, then.

[Flubbernugget]

This makes chara and succinct the main points of interest on the brigette wagon

[Flubbernugget]

Yeah basically

Are you saying nmsa's scum read was fake?

[Flubbernugget]

Mmmmmmm I kind of thought that too, mostly re: "wowie where's the NK?", but I dont know that scum says this because I'd assume they'd be particularly aware that theres no NK coming up if night phases arent happening yet.

And I dont like that she votes flubber after positing scum in reck/tris/succinct

Do you see something else here or have I covered your thoughts more or less?

I try not to be hyper-critical of posts that vote for me but I'm glad I'm not the only one that

[Flubbernugget]

Succinct, why did you scum read Brigitte?

[Flubbernugget]

Jingle's setup went open. Makes no sense to replicate it closed

[Flubbernugget]

Urap2 being obvtown and chara sitting around null-scum make no sense in the same game

[Flubbernugget]

Also makes no sense to throw down a vote you're admitting is useless

[Flubbernugget]

Urap2 being obvtown and chara sitting around null-scum make no sense in the same game

if this is directed at me i don't know why those don't make sense together
(and chara has gone up quite a bit in myreads, but that only happened recently)

They don't make sense together because both slots had the same habit of making a lot of interaction posts that look townie in a bubble but not from them were not able to generate good reads.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: succinct for now. I need to reread chara wrt the brig wagon

[Flubbernugget]

Hmm? What about the vote count indicates I'm town?

It doesn't indicate you're town but suggests that scum could have been on the brigette wagon late to keep the lynch off of you

[Flubbernugget]

Forgot to mention:
I'd

vote

NMSA, but I'd

prefer

Flubbernugget.
NMSA's possible scum, but Flubber's an actual scumread.

Sorry i missed your explanation for brigette being scum

Why am I scum now?

[Flubbernugget]

+ Knowing Flubbernugget's meta.
His contribution's lackluster; as town I'd expect it not to be.

I've had some horrendous town games so this doesn't strike me at all as good meta

[Flubbernugget]

Skitter's new vote is even more bizarre than their previous one

[Flubbernugget]

I've been paying attention to skitter's trajectory on reading you and nothing she's done so far was weird relative to that. This omgusing on her is silly.

Flubber's last two posts are scummy.

Well luckily the trajectory isn't the issue. It's actually a lot simpler than that.

I'm not the only one that thought that skitter's vote on me was weird. Why is only my concern scummy? How is it omgus when I called out a second vote outside of her scum reads., which exactly what struck everyone as odd the first time?

[Flubbernugget]

2531 doesn’t impress me but I kind of agree with 2532. Are you suggesting it’s a possible pocket of me? Like I said, despite what you believe, 2514 and 1636 make 0 sense together. Short of outting myself, I can 100% vouch for town!Skitter never sr me ever for “overreacting” to votes on me, so no - absolutely NOT even remotely “silly”. I am also not an “idiot”.

You want to know what's less impressive than 2531? Scum reading me bc "meta" and that's it.

[Flubbernugget]

I finally got around to looking through chara's posting and their brigette vote was awful

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Brigitte
the more i think about it, the more i think this is a better lynch. skitter's argument for Brigitte's lack of survivalism/arguing against the townread is a sound one but i get the feeling that Brigitte considers the arguments she's made to be soundly NAI and would have made them regardless.

but her last three votes have all been PoE scumreads and pretty safe bets at the time she made them. i absolutely buy town being in that position but i think what i was townreading from Brigitte was NAI.

i don't find tris towny either and i probably will have to end up hammering that by the end of the day. (i think we have about a day left?)
but it's something for me to consider tomorrow at least. of the two i like this more. tris has this gut feeling recently of being strangely awkward which could be newbscum or could just be a newish sort of feeling. Brigitte i think is more aware of her own play.

pedit: already chose.

The vote precedes two points on brigette being NAI and a setup to still get tris lynched if that were to become convenient. I think this is a perfect illustration of what I was trying to get at when I said chara's posting looks good in a vacuum. This vote really didn't bring any suspicion to chara at all, but it really should have.

[Flubbernugget]

Based on meta, I’m pretty sure this is town!Creature we’re seeing here.

internal screaming

[Flubbernugget]

The vote precedes two points on brigette being NAI and a setup to still get tris lynched if that were to become convenient. I think this is a perfect illustration of what I was trying to get at when I said chara's posting looks good in a vacuum. This vote really didn't bring any suspicion to chara at all, but it really should have.

isn't this the exact opposite of my posting being good in a vacuum? you're looking at one post here, not the gamestate.

considering one of tris or Brigitte seemed inevitable at that point in the game, why does scum me need to setup on anybody?

I didn't phrase that right. Your surrounding posting looks good enough in a vacuum to let something like your brigette vote slip by.

Your second assumption only holds up if you

know

tris to be town.

[Flubbernugget]

how likely do you think it is that both wagons were on town?
from your post about me i would guess you think they both are.
at that point, what AI information are you getting from the wagons, when scum would be happy to sit on either?

I think there's a good chance if scum flips on the brigette wagon that tris is additonally scum. I'm really not sure of whether or not tris is scum, and in the posts you've noted I admitted I am on the fence and it could go both ways.

[Flubbernugget]

good question. 2336 and followup are really weird posts because it's saying that u2 and i need to be the same alignment because we have superficially similar posting styles?

I don't see much similarity between the posting styles, but the motivations behind the posting reads similar.

[Flubbernugget]

Flubbernugget isn't making any particular pushes on his own that he intends to go anywhere.
Flubbernugget is mostly following lynches.

Objectively false

[Flubbernugget]

Flubbernuggets only 'push' is on the Xtoxm slot, and a cursory look shows that Urap2 isn't making any particular push that goes anywhere, the only time he votes with Flubber or Nimueh is on the original NMSA wagon, and I have to remember that Urap2 made a pretty dramatic shift in reads to account for him suddenly leaving the wagon.

I'm sorting between chara and succint right now!

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: succinct for now. I need to reread chara wrt the brig wagon

why did you vote Succinct here, Flubber?

I'm looking for scum between you and succinct at the moment. Has that not been clear?

[Flubbernugget]

why exactly are you voting succinct?

Still trying to sort where I think scum was on the wagon. Chara had posting I could actually sort through. Succinct did not.

[Flubbernugget]

I'm looking for scum between you and succinct at the moment. Has that not been clear?

no, i can see what you're saying you're doing, but how is that vote useful?
all your recent posts are just replies to me. it doesn't feel like sorting.

Part pressure, part not letting it go to waste, part not being impressed by succinct's current responses. Basic mafia 101 stuff. This is useless shade.

As is that my recent posts don't "feel" like sorting. Considering they're all answering your questions and having to clarify my previous posting, it shows you're asking pointless questions.

And to bring this whole thing full circle, your brigette vote was still awful.

[Flubbernugget]

I need to respond to succinct but the way he quoted stuff makes that hard to do on mobile

[Flubbernugget]

The fact that I didnt vote outside of my scum list?

Why would you ask stupid question and think that's okay because you then say it's shade?

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: chara

That question was so ignorant of the issue brought up by a host of players in the game that I'm fully convinced your arguments are in bad faith.

[Flubbernugget]

You keep pushing this narrative (without wanting to actually say it) that I have some massive suspicion of skitter when it was really just weird voting patterns worth noting.

You're right that it's easy for scum to do, but sometimes they still slip up.

[Flubbernugget]

Try it this way,

Why sort who you dont suspect?

Let me find what you asked about them.

[Flubbernugget]

Oh that was the urap2 slot.

And they've been a non-entity since replacing in

I'd lynch that.

[Flubbernugget]

Right so this whole argument was semantics. Are you done trying to push me over minutiae?

[Flubbernugget]

I say it like your point was only to *look* town.

[Flubbernugget]

Scum reading me bc "meta" and that's it.

My read's more complex than that. It's actually closer to this:

It's a gamestate read, his alignment holds a pretty big key to solving it I think. His actions indicate a scum agenda that I suspect is in play this game and him flipping scum would go a long way towards proving that.
It's a high information high scum equity lynch

Where I'm at.

So, this is less empty than "meta" but still reads pretty empty. You don't have commentary on many players in the game, so I can't tell how you're actually looking at interactions to see me as a piece of the puzzle. The only other way I can think of someone having a "gamestate" read here is if they wanted to accuse me of active lurking, which...errrrr no.

[Flubbernugget]

ok
why exactly was my vote on you 'bizarre'? eli5

I dunno anymore. Ask elbrin or one of the other players that took issue with it that you can't make an opportunistic push on.

[Flubbernugget]

what exactly is your read on me?

Deff burning through my early town read on you. But I wont scum read someone if the only thing I don't like is their push on me

[Flubbernugget]

How so?

I had to respond to you which was actually responding to ank which made me have to slice up a quote within a quote to respond to it. More importantly, why does it matter?

[Flubbernugget]

You're at the center of a whirlwind of groupthink and a shoddy townbloc and it can kick rocks, homeslice

This is a really good point and is probabaly the source of all of this vague "gamestate lynch" bullshit

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber feeling really wooden and pushing like he doesn't really care.

I dont care because you keep trashing this game with shitty excuses for reads and I'm not going to be the one to argue with you for five pages just to get some worthless "i cant really explain my read oh and by the way it's actually a shaky read ive been pushing this whole day phase teehee" crappity crap crap

[Flubbernugget]

this whole day phase

This is why i dont waste my fucking time

[Flubbernugget]

I am going to IC tomorrow

[Flubbernugget]

ok
why exactly was my vote on you 'bizarre'? eli5

I dunno anymore. Ask elbrin or one of the other players that took issue with it that you can't make an opportunistic push on.

you know, given that i *started the day voting for you* (ie eons before it was cool), and got a ridiculous amount of flak for it, i'm not really sure you can call this opportunistic

also, while i was getting that flak you chimed in to say that my vote was bad - *that's* oppurtunistic, especially since you can't explain why

I can explain it

I did explain it

And i was the only fucking one that got pushed for it

Try again

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: xtom

[Flubbernugget]

Just that. I will be confirmed town tomorrow

[Flubbernugget]

If you say there's scum in one of three slots and then vote a different slot, that's weird. I'm "not explaining" any further because there's nothing to explain under that.

[Flubbernugget]

No I'm scumclaiming

[Flubbernugget]

Fucking hell people

[Flubbernugget]

"one of flub and xtoxm MUST be scum because REASONS that I wont ELABORATE UPON"

I get your frustration, but for what it's worth, my ISO has some points on urap2 being scum, and we are competing wagons.

[Flubbernugget]

"Hey man can I copy your homework?"
"Yeah sure just change it a little so it isnt obvious"

who is skitter copying here?

[Flubbernugget]

Lol