Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[skitter30]

hello all!

VOTE: flubbernugget

@nsg: regular vla on fridays and saturdays!

[skitter30]

This is mafia.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

why

==

I plead the fifth.

It doesn't matter, I don't think I've ever played with you before. How interested are you in lynching reckoner?

None at all right now.

I don't think he has generated anything of AI quality yet.

That doesn't make you think things? We're already on the second page and there is no AI content coming from his slot. Seems a bit interesting, doesn't it?

a) it's the second page, why do you expect ai content from his slot? ie why are you bringing this up even as a point of note? like it's the second page and there's no ai content from my slot either? like why is this significant at this stage of the game?

b) i feel like you're trying to encourage brigitte into probing reckenor (for utterly inane reasons no less) and it feels a little manipulative to me

ok reading on a bit more, what's your read on brigitte at ~34? i don't think the two of you are svs

==

VOTE: VOTE: Brigitte

I'm a vegetarian.

That's some hardcore voting right there, you must have very strong feelings about her. How do you feel about voting u r a person 2

what does 'hardcore voting' mean?

==

urap2 might be town.

@urap: do you think you can diffrentiate nmsa's towngame from his scumgame? ie were you able to read him correctly in 1917?

==

Town
Reckon

Lady Angel


Brigitte
U r a person 2
Scum

huh from your earlier posts i thought you were kinda townreading brigtte actually? why do you think she and urap2 are scummy rn?

and you're townreading reck that strongly off of switching his vote ...? i didn't read it as much ai
and honestly i guess i'm a little confused how he's your strongest/only townread after you said you thought there was no ai content from the slot

==

tris might be town too? not sure yet. this + urap2 are entirely gut rn

[skitter30]

Enter pretty much said that your vote switch was town indicative.

Which I disagree with, but he was pointing out my reasoning on your posts being for joke posting was the reason for vote switch, not that it was lacking in AI.

but he started off saying reck hadn't done anything ai and made that sound like a negative thing ....

ngl i think he might be buddying you

actually reading this again i dont' know what you're trying to say with the bolded

[skitter30]

Skitter's prolly town.

why

[skitter30]

It's not cool to vote my townreads on bad reasoning!

why is he a townread

[skitter30]

I plead the fifth.

It doesn't matter, I don't think I've ever played with you before. How interested are you in lynching reckoner?

None at all right now.

I don't think he has generated anything of AI quality yet.

That doesn't make you think things? We're already on the second page and there is no AI content coming from his slot. Seems a bit interesting, doesn't it?

i'm talking about this post ^^^^ which came before that one, and he definitively said that there's no ai content from his slot, and the implication is that this is a bad thing and that he wants you to consider it more carefully

after you didn't pick up on that line of reasoning he changed his mind and said it was ai and that it was townie

[skitter30]

i don't think it's inherently scummy either

i think that framing a lack of ai content on page 2 as being scummy is scummy, as is dropping that line of reasoning when someone else didn't follow along with that push

this is why i don't think the two of you are svs (although this page is making me rethink that maybe?). it felt like he was encouraging you to look at reck as being scummy for not having ai content at that stage but when you didn't take the bait he changed his read of the situation, even though reck hadn't made any new posts in the interim

pedit this was a response to 97

[skitter30]

I also think if Enter was trying to buddy me here, he probably wouldn't put me as one of his top scumreads. Seems like a roundabout way of buddying.

yeah i thought that was weird too but he literally dropped it like three posts later

[skitter30]

VOTE: enter

[skitter30]

ok and i disagree, i think 31 is manipulative and that the transition from there to iirc 34 is quite bad

[skitter30]

the opinion shift from enter is completely manufactured

it's like a light switch from "omg he has no ai stuff yet and IT'S PAGE TWO!!!!!!" to "oh yeah i totally agree with you that reck is so town dudeeee"

it's v bad

well he didn't actually agree with brigtte; brigitte said she thought you hadn't done anything ai and that it wasn't a bad thing after enter tried to set up not having ai content on page2 as being a bad thing, and then he delcared you a townread

[skitter30]

the opinion shift from enter is completely manufactured

it's like a light switch from "omg he has no ai stuff yet and IT'S PAGE TWO!!!!!!" to "oh yeah i totally agree with you that reck is so town dudeeee"

it's v bad

Definitely. The irony of the push on me is that the argument is that I'm inconsistent, while if you read everything I've been saying, it's actually wildly consistent. It's cool tho, let's get to L-2 at least.

can you explain how everything you've done is wildly consistent, esp. taking into account 31?

[skitter30]

Actually, the fact that people are taking a page one post in RVS that's an obvious attempt to get a wagon going as serious in any way, shape, or form is kinda weird to me. Mafia has changed a lot in the last two years.

this is coming after you insinuated a lack of ai content on page 2 is a negative thing

and after you've said a wagon on you is cool to get the game out of rvs

[skitter30]

oh also before i forget i wouldn't be surprised if scum have a non-standard wincon given how the town wincon is worded

[skitter30]

ok and i disagree, i think 31 is manipulative and that the transition from there to iirc 34 is quite bad

So far what I see Enter is trying to push for a wagons in RVS to get reactions. Those posts are in total alignment with that goal and mindset. So I don't see how it is manipulative unless he is using it to get himself to be townread for pushing the game forward in some nefarious way.

I can actually pretty much see where Enter's brain is going even if I don't agree with most of it.

???? things can be manipulative even without explicitly trying to get himself townread
but he was def trying to build a rapport with you there and on page2

and yeah i think he was initially trying to get you to push reck with him in 31 but when you didn't join he changed his stance on reck to him being a townread

like i can see him trying to push wagons but in that context changing his mind on whether or not reck had ai content doesn't make sense really. like he was trying to go for reck at first but when you weren't interested he pushed where you were voting

pedit bleh i don't type that fast

[skitter30]

Can I suggest NMSA for that wagon? I expect you'll find that more productive, anyhow.

I've been reading through and honestly this is different from the other games I've played with you so since noone else has done much AI, VOTE: urap2

uhhhhhh nobody did anything ai?
how is he playing differently?

[skitter30]

I like wagons cuz they get me reads. Your wagon on me is getting me reads. How does this seem inconsistent?

you're complaining that a wagon on you based on people taking one rvs post seriously is weird after trying to form wagons on people based on their rvs posts

[skitter30]

It's almost like...

It was manufactured.

Dun dun dunn...

To see who people were willing to jump on and get a wagon going.

What?!??! Preposterous!

i jumped on it and you're townreading me ... ?

are you townreading me *because* i jumped on it?

are you saying you made a bad post on purpose to see who would jump on it to try to get wagons to happen ...?

[skitter30]

Of course it can be manipulative without necessity of being townread.

But you seem to be arguing that Enter state of mind was he came in here and was trying to buddy me and get me to vote with him in a manufactured way to manipulate me,

when

I think its more likely he was trying to get a wagon going to get reads out of RVS and that seems way more in line with all of his posts to date

. I think your reasoning falls apart when you take the full context of his posts instead of focusing on 2 posts by themselves that seem odd in that narrow context.

bolded: i mean yeah that's exactly what it looks like to me

i don't really get the transition from insinuating reck is sketchy for not having ai content to townreading him in the context you're suggesting in the italics

[skitter30]

...

this does not read like a joke whatsoever

this reads like actual prodding and pushing

*sigh*

I hate explaining jokes.

OK so how many times have you played a mafia game and people post something that's really AI in the first two pages? Dude, I said isn't it weird he hasn't done anything AI in the first two pages? A lot of people hadn't even posted yet. So yes, it's joke reasoning.

And it's also very real prodding and pushing, because I wanted to see if she would bite. A joke reason has been the reason people have jumped on a wagon before.

It's almost like tempting your scum read with Lynch bait is scummy now and that's awkward

ok this finally makes a bit more sense
although i don't think that reck is usually lynchbait but whatever
so what, after brigitte didn't follow you you started townreading her (you were scumreading her later that page tho)
and then rethought whether or not reck was sactually scummy?

These two have been spamming all game. I'm calling my shot now, this is the scumteam. Come join me on the urap wagon, game is already solved.

yikes

Because you are narrowly focused on 2 posts. Read all of his posts. Tell me what his state of mind is when taking all the posts into consideration. If you ignore all the other posts I think you have a reasonable conclusion. Except that is ignoring everything else that contradicts it.

yes, because those two posts together were bad

i mean i read it again and i can see the narrative that you're pushing (ie that he wanted to form wagons and when you weren't interested in reck he switched to pushing who you were pushing) but i don't feel like it explains everything, namely his random read change on reck

[skitter30]

Playing similarly to what I've seen town!skitter play before.

in what way?
also what's prompting your new style?

[skitter30]

I'm voting urap, your scumpartner, because he seemed scummier earlier.

eli5 why urap was scummy earlier

[skitter30]

Kinda. I was screaming her for p much up until recently (I can find exactly what post later) but I usually play by gut until we are out of RVS and there's real things to analyze.

I never really had a scum read on reckoner I just wanted to see what I could get her to jump on and what I couldn't.

When she made the point about reck, I went back and actually looked at it and it looked kinda townie for reasons I explained later. So I started pushing elsewhere to see if I could get her to jump on that.

bleh i can maybe see this, and the timeline does match up

i still think you were being manipulative there tho; that's not inherently scummy but i don't like it

and what point about reck did she make ... that nothing he did was ai and that there's no reason to push him? so that prompted you to ... reread reck and decide that his vote change was townie?

and you forgot that she was already on urap2?

==

also brigitte is townie imo

[skitter30]

Here we once again have an act. It reads just as false as 1915, just with a different shtick. It's scum nmsa

yeah he's being posture-y and like over-confident here

i skimmed the first few posts of 1917 and id on't really see that there, he was more chill and willing to sheep and was like hyper-aware that he's new and might not be super great at the game so he was like willing to sheep you and tttt

[skitter30]

Playing similarly to what I've seen town!skitter play before.

in what way?
also what's prompting your new style?

kinda textwally, not much. New style because I felt like it

you think the text-walling is town indicative for me?
i'm *pretty* sure we talked about how it isn't for me in 1915, and that i'm more likely to textwall as scum than town?

[skitter30]

Not nearly as much content as in previous games.

a) why is this scummy in a general sense
b) i didn't read 1917 but in 1915 he repped in like late day1 and there was already content for him to work with; of course he'd immediatley have more content as a replacement than as a player starting the game wiht everyone else; int his context i'm not sure this is scummy at all

also UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

also he's since had more content (namely pushing you) so does that factor into your read at all?

[skitter30]

Also, before I forget, VOTE: Brigitte

If you were scum reading us for our interactions early, and you no longer scum read me, why are you still scum reading Brigitte?

another good point, but she was wasting space early, which led to my scumread on both before I called you two as scumteam.

... so why are you voting her *now*?
(i'm also not sure i agree with your conclusion that seh was wasting space early)

can you explain why you think urap and briggite are teamed together?

At least try to look town please.


I'm adding a possible situation 3.5 for reck:

Pushing me cuz NMSA is his buddy

iirc i'm pretty sure that reck's push on you started before nmsa even posted

==

It reminds me of the game you were in with the mod. Where she caught you fake claiming as vig.

yeah, that's exaclty the game i was thinking of
were you following along with that game?

==

Fighting a 103 fever

Consider this prodge an informal vla

feel better soon!!!

[skitter30]

the fact that reck didn't post anything in between so i don't know why he suddenly changed his mind from 'reck has no ai content' to 'nm reck's changing vote like that is townie'

[skitter30]

It reminds me of the game you were in with the mod. Where she caught you fake claiming as vig.

yeah, that's exaclty the game i was thinking of
were you following along with that game?

I wasn't following along at the time, but I recently read the end of it.

the fact that reck didn't post anything in between so i don't know why he suddenly changed his mind from 'reck has no ai content' to 'nm reck's changing vote like that is townie'

I thought it was a change from casual read into looking at things more closely when prompted.
Gave him a townpoint for it.

that's really not the vibe i got

townie thus far: brigitte, urap2, maybe tris
some of enter's recent posting is better so i'm re-evaluating that

[skitter30]

what do you think i'm doing

[skitter30]

you have like three different reasons (+ subreasons) for why reck might be pushing you
which (if any) of those do you think apply to me?

[skitter30]

eh enter might be town
still working on this but feeling better than i was before

i still really disliked those early game posts tho

[skitter30]

do tell

[skitter30]

Initial reads from town to scum

Brigitte
Skitter

Reck/Enter

Nmsa

cant wait to see actual fucking reasons instead of empty reads

do you disagree with the reads or do you just not like that he hasn't given reasons?
(and like he did say earlier that he has a fever so like i'm not much bothered that he hasn't contributed super much rn)

==

@enter what do you think of branson's vote on me?

[skitter30]

fair enough, fair enough

[skitter30]

Voting someone because OMGUS alone seems pretty weak, but when we've had 8 pages of content with at least three viable wagons (Myself, Reck, and himself -which kinda doesn't count, I agree), voting Brig

seems like a decent way for someone to avoid discussing any of the thoughts shared in the game thread,

which is something you'd want to do to avoid outing your buddies when you've got players already emerging as pretty strong universal town reads including skitter and Brig.

i basically wanted to know if you thought this about branson's vote on me

[skitter30]

i do kinda want to know why she's scumreading me tho

[skitter30]

Well this is going to be my last post of the night. might be gone until friday, I know you all will miss me
Got about a third of the game sorted? 3-4 players sorted. Maybe when I get back I will have the rest sorted.

Cheers!

have a good week!

[skitter30]

Why is NMSA at L-2 already?

how do you read him?

[skitter30]

Patience. I think most of us are as curious as you.

yeah i basically have something i want to ask her about her read on me but i want to know why she's reading me that way first

[skitter30]

Reck/Enter I'm not 100% sure what to make of. R

eck's gripe that Enter's reads were inconsistent on page 2 is just as contrived

as Enter defending himself

me and reck had the same stance there so i'm kinda confused why i'm getting townreads for this tbh

[skitter30]

NotMySpamAccount (5): u r a person 2 5, tris 62, tictac 67, Brigitte 144, Enter 207

I'm town reading everyone on this wagon to some extent except enter.

I'm a little surprised that no one has been willing to bring this to l-1. I see both town and scum motivations for voicing support for the wagon without getting on. I would not be surprised in the slightest if there is scum in that group.

eh i'm just kinda wary of l-1 wagons at this stage; i feel like it's a little too early for that

why are you townreading tictac? if nmsa is scum that vote is my best bet for a bus actually

[skitter30]

So I'm extremely tired and unable to focus on anything, which is why I'm here right now instead of studying. I can't get a handle on the Enter/Reck thing at all for some reason, so I'm not going to have much useful to say here until later in the game. Clearly the playstyle change didn't work out great. Because of this, I'm considering replacing out so y'all can have a useful player instead of dead weight in this slot. Do you guys want someone else or do you want me to stay? I'll answer anything you ask me if I have the time, but please don't make me do a full reread. Fire away while I've got a few minutes.

eh i dont' really like replace-outs for this sort of reason; if you don't feel like you can play because you're too busy or whatever than just rep-out but it feels a little :/ to me when people replace out in the hopes that a 'better' player will be a ble to redeem the slot

[skitter30]

have you settled on a read of him?

[skitter30]

i know, it just makes the game feel like it's moving too quickly for me, idk; it's a personal gamestyle preference thing; i don't like early l-1 wagons really and i try to avoid it before i'm ready for the day to end if at all possible

[skitter30]

sorry, i was asking about your reck read; have you settled on what you think he may have been doing early game?

and oooh that's spicy. you think urap is bussing scum!nmsa?

[skitter30]

i don't read them as being aligned at all tbh; urap instigated that push; really no reason to start a push like that at that early stage of the on a partner imo

[skitter30]

VOTE: NMSA
seems constructive

@urap2 idk why but this vote feels scummy
if nmsa is town it's bandwagon-y
and if he's scum it basically feels like scum trying to get on the wagon for the towncred
and none of the posts you pulled feel particularly ai to me

[skitter30]

I do think the fact that 8 players are scum reading NMSA probably means I'm right about him being scum.

actually this starts to make me worry that he may be lynch bait tbh, the complete, mass agreement on scum!nsa

the gamestate is explained either by scum deciding to just hard bus or riding an easy mislynch
figuring out which is it is tho is the tricky part, of course

have you had a scumgame since i asked you in the newbie?

[skitter30]

hello again, i didn't expect to be unavailable for the opening of this game. i hate when that happens.
u2's posts on this game feel kind of wooden.

i misread him in the only other game we have together so i'll take that with a grain of salt, but yes.

pedit: oh, you're both online.

which way did you misread him? (ie he was town and you thought he was scum or the other way around)
i don't really feel like he's being wooden tbh

does this make you scumread him? if yes what do you think that says about nmsa's alignment?

[skitter30]

I don't see why tictac would look like he's busing. He's in basically the same situation as me as relates to that wagon. We both voted for nmsa before he started posting, and stayed because we thought he looked scummy when he did. What in particular about tictac looks like it could be a bus?

i don't know.
i remember thinking when it happened that it felt like it could be a bussing vote, and iirc there was another post later that reinforced that impression but i'd have to go back and find it
i'll go back and look at the first couple of pages again later tonight to try to answer this better

[skitter30]

Yeah I have a completed scum game

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78683

cold meta is cold meta but you *might* (????) be out of your range?

[skitter30]

Because it looks more like you're bussing on preexisting knowledge and a lack of faith in his ability.

i mean idk do scum really start the game bussing their partner before they even have a chance to post? i'm not sure i've *ever* seen that happen tbh

[skitter30]

huh, i'm noticing the lack of mentioning 'daytalk' in the op

oh i reskimmed the first three pages; at the time i was more focused on enter than anything else but yeah the reason why tictac's vote bothered me is that i can see it as early-scum distancing on a wagon that's building on a partner that they imagine might dissipate before it goes anywhere dangerous; it's a safe-seeming way to distance at that stage

i'm not saying it *is* this; i'm saying that it's the sort of vote that i've seen scum make before so if someone *is* bussing on that wagon that's where i'd probe further

[skitter30]

Because it looks more like you're bussing on preexisting knowledge and a lack of faith in his ability.

i mean idk do scum really start the game bussing their partner before they even have a chance to post? i'm not sure i've *ever* seen that happen tbh

That happened to me my very first mafia game.

ok fair enough

[skitter30]

cold meta is cold meta but you *might* (????) be out of your range?

I mean, the game ended like a week or so ago, so not really cold meta

But it is one game, so it's not enough data for a meta read anyway, imo

well, i wasn't in it; that's what i meant by cold

and that's what the many ?????'s meant! it's not something i feel super strongly or am planning on relying on; it's more something i wanted to know to try to get a gauge on what your scumgame might look like

[skitter30]

not really

kinda hard to explain but tictac's felt more bandwagon-y? like the wagon was there so they decided to join it? like they wanted to make sure they got on the wagon? it's their first post and that's all they have to say about the game is that the wagon is constructive - like their first post being all about that makes it feel like that was the most important part of the game to them, like it was important to get on that wagon?

idk it's like a gut thing i got from the context and i have no idea how well i explained that or how to explain better really rn tbh

Spoiler:

Can I suggest NMSA for that wagon? I expect you'll find that more productive, anyhow.

I've been reading through and honestly this is different from the other games I've played with you so since noone else has done much AI, VOTE: urap2

feeling good about my vote

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

I like this

^^^ these contribute to that feeling but i have no idea why

@tris

[skitter30]

huh, i'm noticing the lack of mentioning 'daytalk' in the op

My instinct tells me that if there is no day talk, bussing becomes more likely.

well i think it depends on what scum's wincon actually is

in the theoretical universe where nmsa is scum and there isn't daytalk i don' thtink your push on him looks like a bus *at all*

[skitter30]

Reck/Enter I'm not 100% sure what to make of. R

eck's gripe that Enter's reads were inconsistent on page 2 is just as contrived

as Enter defending himself

me and reck had the same stance there so i'm kinda confused why i'm getting townreads for this tbh

Are you specifically calling out my read? In a vacuum sheeping reck would (maybe?) be scummy but you can't hobestly think I'd look at those posts and go

"yeah this makes skitter town"

well, you and a few other people had a similar sentiment
i don't think i'm sheeping reck; if anything i'm wary about it being the other way around (or, at least, reck amplifying what i was saying to push enter for possibly nefarious purposes)

(by the bolded + context from your previous posts i'm assuming you meant 'yeah this makes skitter scum'? because otherwise i'm confused what you're trying to say)

basically i'm trying to gauge how other people are reading reck rn because i'm having trouble reading him, and my starting point for that is comparing how people responded to my push on enter to people's response to reck's push on enter

i guess my point is less about why *i'm* getting townread and more about why people are conflicted on *reck*

[skitter30]

A lot of people gave Skitter a townread for the early general reactions, but I felt like her overall approach and what she's specifically saying is a lot more scum indicative than town indicative.

Ok, why?

*early general interactions

I'd also like to point out that I think her general response is something I'd expect someone with her general playstyle to do as both alignments.

I agree

[skitter30]

Lady Angel: 3 posts, 2 of which are RVS. The other is a question that could be answered by reading the game.

Scumlean for lurking.

from my one game with her i don't think that's ai for her. or, at least, town!her does that also

Enter: I had a townlean here,

but it's a scumlean now

after an iso. My own reads confuse me sometimes.

why ....

[skitter30]

branson, do you (and/or this alt) use meta?

[skitter30]

1. I believe #70 post is the scummiest post in the entire game so far, minus other posts that came by later... which are also by the same slot (and I will get to those later).
1a. The question to flubber is an empty nothing question.
1b. Too much detail on the Enter quote. I found it bizarre that you felt the need to call that post manipulative and his interactions with Brigitte not SvS after you asked a lot of questions about that one single quote.
1c. Your response to #42 was another empty nothing question.
1d. I really don't like how you felt the need to predate a question to u r a person 2 with stating that you think he's town.

1.a well, sort of. i agree that the question wasn't particularly significant, and that it's answer wasn't that important, but that's not why i asked it - i like to get out of rvs as soon as possible and i believe that the best way to do that is to start pushing anything that looks remotely interesting or that looks like someone has formed some sort of opinion; that way we start to generate discussion. you're right, why tris thoguth flubber's rvs post was scum-indicative really isn't that important or intersting in the broader context of the game, but it's the first post that i felt was more interesting than the typical banal rvs posts, so i used that to start a discussion

1.b. i mean i elaborated why i thought that later, but yes, i think that post was manipulative (and he finally admitted as such like a hundred posts later! that he was trying to get her to join the reck wagon, which is what i picked up on) and the dialogue between them on that page is not svs-indicative. i don't entirely know what your problem with this point is actually

1.c. i didn't (and still don't) know what 'hardcore voting' means; i'm not sure why asking clarification on vocabulary is an empty question

1.d well initially the 'urap' might be town line was going to get it's own section but as i continued reading i realized i wanted to respond to one of his posts so i just lumped all the urap bits into the same section (the '==''s in my wallposts denote sections)

all in all i don't know you're reading this is a scummy post honestly

==

2. It was made pretty obvious pretty fast what Enter was trying to do (and Brigitte even explained it here), and yet you kept pushing the same case even beyond that. Your overall play up to where I have stopped reading is to push on Enter's 31->34 trajectory for as much as you can get away with, and I don't feel like the way you're approaching it is natural since I'm seeing you occasionally make somewhat nuanced stances and points (70, 89 132), yet the other parts of your ISO for this stage in the game is essentially arguing the same points over and over again without applying that same nuance to what everyone else is telling you. It's jarring.

a. how much of the game have you read?

b. yes, because the sequence of 31-34 was atrocious; that's why i kept pushing it. i did *not* intially read those posts the way briggite did, and did not get that vibe from enter's posts until fairly later on. i was particularly bothered that 31 felt manipulative (which nobody else agreed to), and he admitted to it being such later. i didn't feel like his sudden read change on reck was explained by wanting to wagon people; the two things didn't seem much connected to me.
after talking with him for a while, i finally got out of him that:

1. he wanted to wagon random people and initially picked reck for that wagon
2. he wanted to convince other people to join these wagons
3. he went back to read reck's posts after brigitte indicated she didn't find reck's posts ai (which, in turn, prompted the read change between the two posts)

and all of these *together* make sense and explain what was going on there satisfactorily imo. i did not feel like brigitte's eplanation explaned the manipulativeness, which is why i discarded it. it took a while for me to get all of the pieces that i was looking for, and once i got it, i dropped it

3. These three posts are the other biggest source of my scumread outside of #70. Brigitte was clearly talking about the 31->34 shift when she said the consistency wasn't scummy, and I find it a bit hard to believe that it would naturally occur in a town mindset to respond to that with what is essentially "yeah the progression isn't scummy but both parts of it are scummy!" especially when you call it scummy anyways six posts later.

in a vaccuum, i don't find changing reads to be scummy.

i find *indicating taht a lack of ai content on page2 is scummy* to be scummy, because a lack of ai content on page 2 isn't ai, and it's ridiculous to suggest that it is. i also think that modulating that stance after being rebuffed trying to sell it to someone else is scummy

the fact that he changed his read on reck isn't inherently a problem, it's the fact that it came in that context.

[skitter30]

4. I'm sorry I haven't really read what you're posting, Branson, there's a lot going on right now (but I think that's really good for town). What do you think of Reck next to Skitter? I do think the next move should be to wagon me over skitter, though, just because a lot of people seem to be scumreading me right now, my play tends to be a lot less gambitty when I'm under the eye and maybe if people trust me a little more I can get back to pushing things for reads. Maybe this is selfish of me, but I hate having to try and look town while also trying to do things that make town look good.

i'm pretty sure this is town

[skitter30]

Gonna come back to this exchange later with a clear head, but I could see this being a play style clash I guess

yeah i kinda read your argument as a playstyle clash tbh

[skitter30]

very very very faintly gut-town but i can't articulate why super well; i think a couple of your posts are pinging me as being similar to those in xtoxm's game

it's not a strong read rn tho, and not one that i'm putting any particular stock in

it also took me a while in both prey and coalition to form a solid read on you so i'm fine waiting for a bit, especially since you said you don't ahve super much time now to play anyways

[skitter30]

that's fair

i guess one of the reasons why i was hesitant for nmsa to be at l-1 is that it felt too close to getting ready to end the day for me, and i feel like there's solid chunks of the player list that i just have no read on whatsoever, and i don't really want to go into night without having a read on large numbers of players

i still don't really have a good feel for: chara, lady angel, branson, nimueh, reck, flubbernugget

[skitter30]

Skitter, what's your WIM level this game? Is there anyone in this list you'd really like to impress? You don't have to tell me who.

my wim/interest in the game is pretty high, but i started a new job last week so the amount of time/energy i can put into this has decreased; i'm limiting myself to only one game rn

i'm not sure if i really want to impress anyone? i dont' know if i think about the game that way at all; i don't know if i've ever really started a game thinking - wow i want to impress person A. i'm not even sure i know what 'impress' means in this context tbh

i did just finish a game though where i was hilariously obvtown and while i'm not specifically going out of my way to try to replicate that, i am kinda taking special note of how people are reading me and why to try to figure out what i'm doing to make that happen sometimes, if that makes sense, especially since i've been getting a lot of townreads here that i'm not entirely sure are deserved

i *do* kinda want to see if i can read chara correctly again because at the end of that game we correctly townread each other and were working super super super well together and if they're town here i'd love for that to happen again

idk i hope that answers your question. why'd you ask me this?

[skitter30]

i mean i guess i can do real-time for some measure of the word 'can'. like as scum i can do it if i really really really have to and know that i won't get townread by certain people if i don't but i hate it and avoid it whenever possible and in some playerlists i can get by just fine without that and so just wouldn't bother; this is probably one such playerlist tbh

(aside i'm kinda curious where your impression of my meta stems from, but you don't have to share that if you don't want to)

and by that metric i'm probably out of my range already, or at the very least am fairly close to it, but there aren't that many people in this pl that i'd particularly expect to know that

and i guess i might as well get to where i've been leading up to wrt branson: she was my scumbuddy in one of my recent 'good' scumgames (gerrymandering) and i think this game is already sufficiently different from that one that i'm kinda surprised that she's scumreading me here tbh

[skitter30]

and i guess in a general sense i don't really have wim for scumgames, at best i just don't want to lose, i don't have much desire to win

[skitter30]

Yeah he was going go be my guess

[skitter30]

Skitter also takes 31 seriously. Maybe I'm not obvious enough?

i definitely read it seriously; that's why i was pushing it; if it was meant to be read as a joke post i did not understand that

After rereading the opening from Reck,

his posting seems like he's trying to get away with a tunnel all game.

He's posted pretty much nothing outside of the posts against me, and he's kinda lurking while the NMSA wagon slowly withers. It wouldn't surprise me if they were partners, but I don't know that case 3.5 seems too likely, he had already gone too far in earlier posts. I think I will settle for case 3.

i don't really know if that's a fair assessment given that he hasn't even really posted since the whole push on you; i think the lurking has more to do with being-busy-irl stuff than with the gamestate tbh

==

this sort of makes me wonder if this is an Enter pocket attempt. though if so it'd be rather blatant and possibly not effective.

??? i don't read it as a pocketing attempt at all? it makes sense as a progression from his argument with enter that ended with urap concluding that the whole thing might just be a playstyle clash

Spoiler:

i'm not interested in wagoning u2 right now, but there's definitely scum utility here

if

Reck ends up town. there's much less if this is a bus, because the towncred scum u2 gains from helping you is a lot less valuable than where i think this push will go.

pedit: it makes sense from town u2 too, but the way he's saying outright that he wants to help you and figure you out here pinged me. as i said if it's a buddy attempt it's pretty blatant so i don't know how likely i find that.

and skitter's scumgame is good, but what she's said about her limitations is also correct. i can't call her confident town but right now i have no real reason to be suspicious.

the town pingings i had from you are kinda vanishing ^^^

==

Chara you shared on nimueh how do you feel about the other low post count players. Flubb, Lady Angel does anyone know either of them and know if they're likely to play like this as scum?

i've played one game with lady angel and she absolutely lurks/plays like this as town
i have no idea what her scumgame looks like, and i don't know anything about nimueh and i remember that she posted like twice(?) in this game but i have no idea what she said, which is troubling

==

Nah, it doesn't really to me. This sounds like scum covering their bases in case someone calls them out. I hate to doubt urap's reads, since they seem to be accurate in my experience, I'm starting to think urap is either wrong, scum, or we're reading two different games.

i mean from your pov his reads have to be wrong (whether wrong!town or because he's scum to be determined) given taht he's scumreading you, so it's kinda weird that you're only starting to come to this conclusion now ...???

==

i'm not really vibing with the reck wagon rn; i'm not entirely sure why it's a thing
if nmsa ever flips scum there's very very very likely scum in the current reck voters

[skitter30]

huh i thought there were more for some reason, but i didn't go back to count
i think you're both town actually, so if that's the whole wagon i take that back

i guess i didn't like flubber hopping on and off but i'm not sure if that's actually, like, scum-indicative

[skitter30]

i mean if nmsa is scum and the whole reck wagon {you, enter} is town, then yes, scum is pretty content to not really do much to influence the gamestate

the whole gamestate is very quiescent rn and i don't know why and it's kinda disquieting

[skitter30]

yeah it could just be one of those games scum's just in the lurkers

i'm also kinda guttown on reck i think
i don't really gut-townread chara anymore

i was gut-town on tris but that read has kinda vanished too

[skitter30]

and i guess i might as well get to where i've been leading up to wrt branson: she was my scumbuddy in one of my recent 'good' scumgames (gerrymandering) and i think this game is already sufficiently different from that one that i'm kinda surprised that she's scumreading me here tbh

[skitter30]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76501

^^^^ this one

so like i said, from the context of that game being a thing i don't entirely understand where her push on me is coming from

[skitter30]

although if she's scum i'm not sure what she's actually trying to get out of this? there's at least half a dozen easier pushes she could be making here and like that's never going to end in a mislynch on me here realistically

[skitter30]

i mean idk i never really had to read her given that we were scumbuddies there so like i don't know if switching to this alt really had anything to do with me in particular

[skitter30]

Chara is...I don't know how to express this. Odd? Reading Chara posts and I see like an invisible barrier between it and everyone they are talking to. I dont know if this is normal. Could be as they say they are busy. But I don't see the need for this barrier even though your busy. And I know this perception of the posts but I see it in almost every post. I don't know what to make of it. I am not sure on the scumhunting because of this barrier I see. It just makes me think scum putting up a barrier.

yeah there's something kinda .... lacking from their posts? there's a very superficial vibe there, and they feel kinda distant? i don't know if that's because they're busy irl but they're posting just feels very, ever so slightly off i'm not sure if barrier is quite the term i would use to describe it but i'm happy that someone else picked up on it too and that i'm not just seeing things

[skitter30]

Chara is...I don't know how to express this. Odd? Reading Chara posts and I see like an invisible barrier between it and everyone they are talking to. I dont know if this is normal. Could be as they say they are busy. But I don't see the need for this barrier even though your busy. And I know this perception of the posts but I see it in almost every post. I don't know what to make of it. I am not sure on the scumhunting because of this barrier I see. It just makes me think scum putting up a barrier.

yeah there's something kinda .... lacking from their posts? there's a very superficial vibe there, and they feel kinda distant? i don't know if that's because they're busy irl but their posting just feels very, ever so slightly off.

i'm not sure if barrier is quite the term i would use to describe it but i'm happy that someone else picked up on it too and that i'm not just seeing things

(they're -> their, it was bugging me; added a line break)

[skitter30]

VOTE: branson
i think i'm fine with this for now

[skitter30]

um i'm not sure? it had incredibly funky mechanics that probably made it a bit of an atypical game, especially without context
so like reading through my iso might be confusing

but the point that i'm kinda trying to make is that i basically prodged my way through that game in the main thread (i probalby have a higher post count here already than in like two months of that game) and there's basically no conversations like this one there because i avoid them if it all possible

there's a lot more walling, and a lot less like actively engaging with people
so like i guess i'm just kinda confused how/why she thinks my game changed so much since then

[skitter30]

i have this really awkward feeling here where i want to be annoyed about being viewed as disconnected even if it might be right, because i feel that way and that my reads aren't as strong as i'd like. and i also want to say it reaffirms my townreads on brigitte and skitter somewhat that they both picked up on the same thing. so i guess i'm annoyed but also got information out of it. i don't know.

pedit: skitter, is the meta you linked with Branson easy to read?

sorry, not trying to be annoying, but i did kinda get this vibe that your posts were like distracted or distanced or idk the right word
i'm not sure if it's ai because it could be like an irl thing which is why i wasn't really mentioning it till brigitte brought it up but it's def a thing i noticed

[skitter30]

although if she's scum i'm not sure what she's actually trying to get out of this? there's at least half a dozen easier pushes she could be making here and like that's never going to end in a mislynch on me here realistically

does she know enough of you to be aware you're hard to mislynch. i thought your only game with her was this scumgame you two had together.

yeah i was thinking that as i wrote that post but i guess that bit i didn't actually write, whoops
i *think* she knows that? if she doesn't than this point is moot obviously

[skitter30]

and i guess i might as well get to where i've been leading up to wrt branson: she was my scumbuddy in one of my recent 'good' scumgames (gerrymandering) and i think this game is already sufficiently different from that one that i'm kinda surprised that she's scumreading me here tbh

[skitter30]

that's been a topic of conversation for the last page or so

[skitter30]

I'm confused why, exactly?

I don't regard meta as a tool that is worth using without a great deal of context into why specific tells work.

My experience with you is that scumgame you mentioned and a game I was loosely following where you also endgamed as scum. I have no town games of yours to contrast that with and definitely not a read into your personality regarding mafia from them, so I have no reason to take my past experiences with you into account on my read.

ok that's what i was trying to find out; i asked at some point whether or not you use meta to form reads but i guess you missed that

and idk i guess what i'm getting at is that on my end i kinda think that this game is different enough from that one that i'm not sure why you think that early push on enter comes from scum!me given that you've seen how scum!me plays.

oh and another question: how easy/hard do you think i am to mislynch?

[skitter30]

oh and another question: how easy/hard do you think i am to mislynch?

oh you answered this already, whoops

[skitter30]

do you have a read on chara?

[skitter30]

Subject: micro 849: mafia (game is done.)

I think I should have skitter pocketed this game? I think she would expect me to play completely differently since she's only ever seen me be mostly absent before (as a scum game), but I also have no idea how she gets reads or if she even takes that into account in the first place...

I'm confused why, exactly?

I don't regard meta as a tool that is worth using without a great deal of context into why specific tells work.

My experience with you is that scumgame you mentioned and a game I was loosely following where you also endgamed as scum. I have no town games of yours to contrast that with and definitely not a read into your personality regarding mafia from them, so I have no reason to take my past experiences with you into account on my read.

you obviously remember that game and were expecting me to compare your play in scadd's game to your play in gerrymandering but when i object to your current read on me based on *my* play in gerrymandering you dismiss that line of reasoning?

(obviously i was trying to avoid talking about this game yesterday; @chara scum!her had seen my towngame in a game that had just ended)

and i guess what i was avoiding saying is that you feel kinda *flat* here in the same way you did in schadd's game
i don't have a towngame to compare against but your play in this game kinda reminds me of that one

[skitter30]

lol nimueh's on v/la for 2 fucking weeks is this real life

VOTE: lady angel

@mod please replace nimueh if they cannot play this game until march 12th

i second this ^^^^^

==

VOTE: u r a person 2

You're not really giving reads. You're just shading me and inexplicably calling nmsa town. What reasons do you have?

VOTE: nmsa

I'm ready to do this tbh. got a decent town bloc and caught scum

This is not a town response

Let's gooooooo

bad vote

like even his response to this vote is quite townie

==

Pushing controversial reads/stances is more likely to come from scum me than town me Unless I have an already established basis for it, in which case it's more likely to come from town me.

uh pushing me early this game (when quite a few people were townreading me already) looks more than a little bit like 'pushing controversial reads/stances'

==

can we not fucking do this with lady angel & nim giving us ABSOLUTELY GODDAMN NOTHING TODAY

^^^^^ can we like not end the day when there's slots that have literally psoted like nothing? kthx

@nsg is lady angel going to get replaced?

==

Brigitte is looking like scum #2

tris and reck are virtually locktown

what on earth

why is tris locktown for fake-hammering someone you think is town ...?
why is brigitte scum?
why am i hating all of your posts?
so many questions

==

Why am I town?

did you fake hammer on purpose

Yeah, do you think I wouldn't have as scum?
UNVOTE:

was there a point to the fake-hammer or ...?

==

ok new post

[skitter30]

VOTE: NMSA I haven't changed my mind here.

Why do you think he's town, Ankamius?

because for how certain you are that the slot is scum, you're playing like you already think he's going to flip town?

... you just called her locktown like a page prior; this is not an exchange that happens with someone you're strongly townreading

==

I didn't try to hammer anyone. I knew my vote was already there. It was intentionally fake.

again, why tho?

Actually, I did the fake hammer more on a whim. I didn't really have any specific motivations for it. The post afterwards about being lacking in reads was something I was going to say before I put that on hold to make the fake hammer.

like did you get anything out of it? did it help you form reads? or did you just randomly decide to lol-fake-hammer for no apparenet purpose?

==

Ank is looking pretty scummy too.

can i interest you in helping me form an ank wagon?

==

town (or, at least, town enough for day1): enter, urap2, brigitte, reck
scummy: nmsa, ank

gut-town:flubber
gut-scum: tris, tictac

everyone else: null or idk or i don't remember them

==

i'm very happy with my vote
i would vote tris too actually i think
i don't really have any particular objections to the nmsa wagon but i scumread ank quite a lot more, and i don't want the day to end before nimueh/lady angel start posting and/or get a replacement that actually, like plays the game

[skitter30]

my personality read of you at the time was that you paid attention to that sort of thing and I was specifically testing you to see if that held true

it didn't

i don't know what you're trying to say here

[skitter30]

ok fair enough, i msiread who you were responding to there then

[skitter30]

I'm confused why, exactly?

I don't regard meta as a tool that is worth using without a great deal of context into why specific tells work.

My experience with you is that scumgame you mentioned and a game I was loosely following where you also endgamed as scum. I have no town games of yours to contrast that with and definitely not a read into your personality regarding mafia from them, so I have no reason to take my past experiences with you into account on my read.

what are you confused about here, exactly?

[skitter30]

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

uh ... do tell

[skitter30]

i feel like there's something wonky in your logic somewhere or that i'm missing something in this convo but i'm a little too tired rn to sort out what's bothering me exactly rn, so i think i'm just going to drop this specific line of inquiry until i figure it out

p-edit @ank

[skitter30]

@urap2 i'm not entirely sure i agree with the logic of your switch here but i think it comes from town most of the time

[skitter30]

like i'm not sure what the scum motivation is for such a massive read reversal here
cuz if they're partners i don't think he just randomly drops the push
and if nmsa is town and urap is scum like why bother doing this rn?

[skitter30]

your reads are like upside down from mine

[skitter30]

bad thing, it makes me wonder how you're approaching this game if we're viewing it so differently

why would this be a good thing?

[skitter30]

i mean if he's scum here i have no idea what he thinks he's doing rn or like what hte point of his nmsa push was in the first place

let's wagon ank instead

[skitter30]

i mean if he's scum here i have no idea what he thinks he's doing rn or like what hte point of his nmsa push was in the first place

let's wagon ank instead

i'd love to, but why's she acting like this? i know posturing is a thing, but she's aggressively doing her own thing here and i don't know if that would get scum her anywhere.
that's just a guess and i don't exactly like her posts either, though.

idk what scum!her is doing here but her posts just feel kinda wrong in a general sense and i'm having a hard time seeing them as coming from a town thought process

(and since she's said scum!her tends to push controversial/unpopular things i'm not sure why this should be a reason to not scumread her)

[skitter30]

since I'm nice

would you like a past scumgame where I played like this

i mean sure but:

a) i definitely won't be able to look at it until at least sunday
b) if you're town here i'm not sure how that's going to help me read you correctly

[skitter30]

Ank is town

i don't see it

[skitter30]

i can see her white-knighting town!nmsa
tbh my read on her doesn't have much to do with nmsa's alignment

[skitter30]

oh that reminds me: is forgetting that the game is nightless ai at all?

[skitter30]

so you just decided to fake-hammer for the lols?

i'd also support a tris wagon btw

p-edit this was at @tris

[skitter30]

i'm just having a really really really hard time understanding why someone looks at the game and just randomly decides to fake-hammer for no reason

[skitter30]

so it was a reaction test?

[skitter30]

i think tris's reply to skitter is townish as is hammering "for the lulz" but it'd depend on the player if i really want to townread it. i don't understand why scum does it either so i'm not sure why you're scumreading the action itself, skitter.

I'm not particularly scumreading the fake-hammer; it just doesnt make sense as an unpremeditated action from either alignment; i just don't get why someone would randomly fakehammer (and *not* be deliberately trying to get reactions) as either alignment.

My scumread has more to do with a lack of original opinions/lack of actively sorting people, and that her presence in the game rn has largely been to ask questions that dont lead anywhere and to sheep people. I particularly dont like the post from a couple of pages back where she just dropped the nmsa push because urap2 did.

[skitter30]

Also @chara: some of your posts feel a little pocket-y to me and its starting to make me paranoid of you

[skitter30]

if i had to borrow someone's tinfoil hat for a moment (i don't have my own), i would say Reck put me and skitter in his townreads because he knows we aren't mislynchable and isn't going to pursue that.

I think reck has been pretty townie tbh

[skitter30]

and about the only thing i don't like from you this game is that the depth of your analysis doesn't feel as meaty.

this is a function more of starting a new job last week that right now has a longish commute; most days for the past couple of weeks (and i expect for the next week or so) i get home kinda late and i've been finding that a few hours later i start getting tired enough that i can tell i'm not thinking through things clearly, but this hasn't been a high enough priority to spend time going back and rereading things; i might do that over the weekend if i have the time for it

(i'm moving a lot closer to my job late next week or early the week after tho so i don't think this will be a permanent thing)

i'm not sure why you think i would be less... "pocket-y" given our history together and how your reads were essentially mirrors of mine but better in our last game. you're a really good townplayer and it grabs my attention.

idk. i didn't get the pocket-y vibes much last game much at all. i also don't know why i started townreading you there, beyond for the fact that ~eod2 you just felt town, and if you're town here that lightbulb hasn't gone off yet.

I think reck has been pretty townie tbh

we agree on tris, but why do you find Reck towny?

in particular rn his reaction/frustration at tris' fake hammer felt real, like he was actually mad that the day was over before the lurkers started posting, and in general i just agree with a lot of his thougths throughout the game.

not sure why you're scumreading him tbh? is it mostly because he townbinned both of us, and you think if he's scum he thinks we're both not really lynchable so this is his way of dealing with us?

tbh this is kinda the vibe that i'm getting with you? ie that you think i'm not lynchable so you need to come up with some other way to deal with me (especially in a game that's nightless!), and so you've settled for trying to pocket and/or get me to townread you

[skitter30]

catching up now!
probably in a few wallposts; i'm about 15 pages behind

[skitter30]

tbh this is kinda the vibe that i'm getting with you? ie that you think i'm not lynchable so you need to come up with some other way to deal with me (especially in a game that's nightless!), and so you've settled for trying to pocket and/or get me to townread you

okay, there's nothing i can do about this and i can't be more clear about why i'm reading you this way than i already have been.
how would your perception of town me be reading you right now? if not like this.

i was thinking about this earlier, and was wondering if it was just paranoia combined with my lackluster play, which would make sense. it's still annoying but i think if you are town you'll figure out i am eventually.
but you've said

yourself

you think you're mostly out of your scumrange here, and you should know i'm aware of your meta and paying attention to it. so what reason would i even have to do anything but townread you, or listen to your reads?

it's not so much as i think it's impossible for this to come freom town!you, or that town!you would necessarily play it differently, so much as i think it's quite likely to come from scum!you as well, which is why i'm wary, if that makes sense. like town!you has to try to read me, and i can buy that you would be townreading me here, but i don't think that scum!you would/can do anything *but* townread me, which is why i feel like i have to take that possibility into account.

so like it's not so much that i think town!you wouldn't interact with me this way, so much as i'm wary that scum!you would be (especially in a game without nks!)

and i guess just comparing to last game: i felt paranoid, yes, but i never felt pocket-y, or like you valued my reads in a general sense *that* strongly. like you were just scumreading reck and after i said i was townreading him and why, your read changed to match mine, which is kinda weird.

I've been spending the entire last 20 pages or so specifically trying to push against the NMSA wagon (who I believe is town) and to pull the wagon over to myself to see what responses people would have and how exactly they would handle the gamestate shift.

i don't entirely know how i feel about this yet wrt your alignment
i don't have a great sense for how lynchable you are; i imagine if i were scum here i owuld not try to lynch you
i'm not really vibing your brigitte scumread rn

==

i feel like there's something wonky in your logic somewhere or that i'm missing something in this convo but i'm a little too tired rn to sort out what's bothering me exactly rn, so i think i'm just going to drop this specific line of inquiry until i figure it out

p-edit @ank

Not fully caught up but I wanted to get back to this

Remember how many times urap was scum reading nmsa but still tried to get wagons going elsewhere?

not sure what you mean by this (or, at least, what the question has to do with the quote)
i think the wagons going elsewhere was because he was trying out enter's playstyle to try to read enter. i don't have much problem with it

==

i had been kinda gut-townreading flubber earlier but i've kinda lost that read; he's more around nullscum now

actually nm reading more i think he's back up to nulltown

==

elbirn might be town
i kinda like the tictac wagon; all the people i'm townreading are on it too

==

It wasn't because urap2 changed his mind. It wasn't until urap2 made the point I quoted in the above post that I changed my mind. The evidence convinced me.

i mean this is kinda semanitcs; i obviously meant you changed your mind after you read urap2 changed his mind and the reason for it

==

VOTE: Nimueh

Anything to say about someone other than NMSA (Or I guess tictac)?

I’ve V/LA because I haven’t been feeling well, so no I’m not caught up yet but if this is your sole reason for for voting me, it isn’t a town one.

VOTE: Tris

Alright, fair enough.
UNVOTE:

new post

[skitter30]

Can someone tell me why Rec is town?

because of his reaction to the first fake-hammer

maybe if i keep reminding myself i won't forget for later: there was definitely scum on the nmsa wagon

@Enter, any particular reason, you ignored this post?

I didn't, you posted that after anything I've posted today.

So, you’re here now. Do you tr Rec? He put NMSA at L-1.

why is putting nmsa at l-1 important and/or relevant and/or scummy?

==

Alright, time's up.


You called tictac lynchbait but you think someone putting their vote on someone who hadn't really posted much at all is bad?
And you're only concerned with people getting their votes off of you, not concerned with why people put their votes there in the first place.

Get back to me, when you’ve actually read my posts. Thanks.

oh ffs
i think i know who you are.
if you are please just answer this and i'll leave, thank you

==

I found a broken tape recorder and it's got speech to text on. That's what happened.
No I'm not gonna hear the "this is TvT" what town reason does she have to evade questions like this?

i dont' know of any of her posting here is actually, like, ai for her; i don't think it's inherently scummy even though it's a pain to even try to read (in the sense of actually, like, reading the posts, not even in the sense of trying to read her alignment)

==

You pretending you are not angry during the game by throwing around sarcasm with it, obviously actually angry.

i don't think she's been actually angry?

You even added the confidence level I had on you as your next post. Except instead of what I said as 85% you are 90%. Woah. You are a legend.

and this is also a rather strange thing to scumread someone for
i kinda read this thing a few times and ultimately i'm not sure what your argument is for ank being scum tbh

Can you be anymore obvious right now though?
Like I can't imagine.

Someone as town. Would ask someone who was scumreading me. What their thoughts on a case I make, and then act like 'ohh I guess I am not being irrational right now'.

Like if you are thinking in these terms as town. I don't even have words for you.

this is a weird post; i think that sounds like a thought process a townie might have?

==

VOTE: ankamius

i actually think ank is pretty townie in this convo she's having here with brigitte; not sure why you're voting her here

==
i'm caught up

town: reck, enter, urap
nulltown: ank
somewhere between null and nulltown: flubber
idk: tris, brigitte, nmsa, tictac, elbirn
nullscum: chara
can't read: nimueh

i have too many nullreads, and i don't really explicitly scumread anyone rn, which is a problem

[skitter30]

u r a person 2. I don't get this. You think that ankamius is thinking she is going crazy, wants another perspective if the post is scummy or means nothing. Asks reckoner. Who isn't reading the game. Has a scumread on me. If that post is or isn't scummy.

All of this seems reasonable versus asking almost anyone else she might be townreading.

This is what you are thinking?

i mean he can scumread you and not think that the post is scummy
also i think she asked him because he was around and she was wondering his opinion on it

[skitter30]

????????

she's saying you should be bop scumread after the people you've deathtunneled flip town

[skitter30]

I don't necessarily agree with your givens. I think it's clear reck read the case Ank quoted, and I think Ank was probably exaggerating her concern a tad.

But yeah, I think it's reasonable. I think it would have also been reasonable to ask someone else. Ank was here, reck was here. I'm not losing sleep over her decision.

What givens do you not agree with here?

All of this seems fake and just used to get more general consensus around her. Which to me isn't hard to do if you ask people

who agree with you to basically agree with you

, which is what i saw with that post.

i mean i'm pretty sure she jsut flat-out asked reck for his opinino in a really really general sense, and after he called your case scummy, she agreed.
i don't think she indicated which way she wanted him to read that post first

[skitter30]

brigitte is pinging me as scum ye

this is the first time he stated a scumread on you?
not entirely accurate to portray him as scumreading you all game

i think she just wanted another opinion on her read, which is fine imo, even if he's scumreading you

[skitter30]

i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

[skitter30]

i don't know what that means for brigitte's alignment yet tho

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

Yeah because she is playing the reasonable person here and I am the unhinged crazy person.
Its pretty obvious to me that is what is going on.

And it like literally doesn't make her town at all.

i mean you're portraying yourself as the unhinged crazy person in your past few posts; she isn't doing that

[skitter30]

i don't know if it's her being reasonable; it's more posts like 1281

[skitter30]

maybe this is just a game where scum is in all the lurkers?
that doesn't feel quite right tho

i'm townreading most of the active players so i'm not sure where i'm going wrong rn

[skitter30]

brigitte is pinging me as scum ye

this is the first time he stated a scumread on you?
not entirely accurate to portray him as scumreading you all game

i think she just wanted another opinion on her read, which is fine imo, even if he's scumreading you

no, brigitte was in my scumpool like 20 pages ago

yes, that was around 20 pages ago

[skitter30]

i don't know if it's her being reasonable; it's more posts like 1281

That's a scummy post when she claims she had a scumread on me and wants to de-escalate the situation. I don't see how she knows even though she is currently winning the support of people how this won't blow up in her face. So if she gets me to flip my read on her, she wins more. And she still plays the "reasonable" person card up for more points.

I'm still not entirely convinced this was s deathtunnel yet

Although I will note that my main issue with this being a scum act is that I don't think she wouldn't have realized by now that this isn't winnable for her and backed off

these two posts from ank kinda vibe for me tho as a real-time thought process; don't really see it as being scummy tbh in the way you described. like you said, she's winning the argumnet, not sure why she wants to de-escalate here as scum

[skitter30]

I am shocked you didn't read something I posted.
I am utterly shocked.

Because you have been following the game so closely. You read everything. I just know you did. You would not miss something that happened just a page ago.
You couldn't.

You are a great reader. I know it.

??????

[skitter30]

these two posts from ank kinda vibe for me tho as a real-time thought process; don't really see it as being scummy tbh in the way you described. like you said, she's winning the argumnet, not sure why she wants to de-escalate here as scum

Because as I said, she wins more points in her favor by doing so which is doing with you. You might think its real, but I don't its real. I haven't found a lot of her stances and posts genuine here.

or she coudl just like keep pushing you to get you mislynched? like she actually unvoted you; i think that's counterproductive here if she's scum

[skitter30]

VOTE: brigitte

[skitter30]

i'm kinda skimming nimueh's posts and gun-to-head i think she's kinda scummy but i don't know if that's because i'm carrying a lot of animus from how she behaved in the last game i played with her; i would not have joined this game if i had known who her main was

i'm kinda like actively not trying to engage her so i'm trying to decide if i should just replace out here because trying to not sort her is obviously counterproductive

==

i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

Explain. I'd argue she comes off more controlled, but pretty sure that's more scummy than townie, IMO.

i don't know - it kinda felt like she was approaching her convos with brigitte with a goal (first convo refuting brigitte's scumread, seconc convo getting another opinion on brigitte and then trying to gague if scum!brigitte would back down under pressure), whereas brgitte felt a lot more like she was flailing when ank pushed her and like she didn't know how to respond ank; it felt less like she was approaching the exchange with a consistent thought process that guided her posts/pushes/responses, but rather that she just said the first thing that popped into her head when she was met with resistance by me/urap2/ank/reck - discrediting reck by saying he wasn't reading the game.

like the convo last night wrt ank and then reck: she started off with objecting to ank asking reck how he was reading brigitte/brigitte's case on reck because reck had been scumreading her all game so he's obviously biased. once i pointed out that wasn't true (ie his scumread on her had developed in the last 20 pages or so), and that scumreading someone dones't mean they can't objectively look at a post, brigitte's posting shifted to discrediting reck in general on the basis that he isn't reading the game, which is kinda obviously not true. and i kinda disliked that she was using that as an excuse to not engage with reck at all; it kinda felt like that once reck started siding with ank her next goal was to try to discredit him - like she went from objecting to ank asking reck how he was reading brigitte to discrediting reck and i don't follow that as a townie thought process really, but it kinda makes sense to me as a response by scum to getting pushed and getting backed into a corner

i do think that ank (in middle of that convo with brigitte) saying that she thought scum!brigitte would have dropped the push and then unvoting was townie because i think that scum!her would continue pushing brigitte there while she had momentum to try to score a mislynch; a couple of ank's posts at that juncture seem like she was rethinking her brigitte read in real-time, in response to brigitte's reaction to her

idk i hope i explained that well enough
==

She even made in my mind one of the scummiest post trying to get me to stop my push by saying "I am giving you a chance here" and

framed it in a way where she basically couldn't really lose.

If I continue, I am the unreasonable person. If I stop she wins by not having me stop. That wasn't a real olive branch that was a Xanatos gambit.

actually i think i understand where brigitte was coming from last night a bit more; i didn't get why she thought that ank was framing her as being unreasonable but this explanation makes more sense to me and it explains a lot of the frustration that was threading through her posts last night

i still dont't get why this exchange with ank was followed by the reck-isn't-reading thing tho

==

does ank not look manipulative and controlled to you?

not there, no

what do you think about the fact that ank put her vote back on?

i liked at that time that she unvoted because it felt like if she's scum there's little motivation for her to unvote briggite when people are just coming 'round to side with ank; much more scum motivation to continue pushing and to try to get that mislynch. re-voting when a brigitte wagon appears kinda undermines that reasoning tho; i dont' like the unvote quite as much now but i still think it's kinda townie since it came in conjunction with posts that indicated that ank was trying to re-evaluate brigitte in response to how brigitte was acting towards her (specifically 1281 and 1296 taken together)

==

damn, even more reason not to try and send them into a rage.

I've asked the thread generally a number or times now, but here's to you specifically.

What motivation did you have for provoking him like that?

I told you immediately during it I was trolling him. What do you think I am trying to do here?

i think that this is an awful way to play the game but i'm not sure it's actually scummy
UNVOTE:
(although i missed you saying last night htat you were trying to troll him)

[skitter30]

Would scum!nimueh ever try to mislynch you?

[skitter30]

Yeah that's what i thought too

[skitter30]

i have ank as pretty solidly town now btw, in case anyone was wondering

[skitter30]

@ank do you have a read on chara now?

[skitter30]

why were you scumreading them earlier/now?

[skitter30]

Is she regularly this bad? I already had one headache trying to deal with her, I assumed she was just having a bad day. If this is consistent I don't know that I can really handle it.

pretty par for the course tbh
apologies in advance if i end up repping out

==

Just to get this straight, you're saying you think it looked like Ank was legitimately considering her read on Brig by unvoting and offering Brig a way out on multiple occasions, and Brig looked like scum for just responding with whatever emotion happened to be going through her at the moment, right?

yeah, basically. to be slightly more precise:
it looked like ank was legimately reconsidering her read on Brig by unvoting and noting that scum!brig probably takes the way out Ank was offering her. ie i viewed the offers as a reaction test to see what Brig would do - if brig used them as a way out ank would find that scummy, and since brig didn't, ank re-evaluated her read on her based on brig's reaction and unvoted. if ank were scum i don't think that unvote would have happened during that irl time convo; to me it indicates that ank was actively reconsidering her read in a natural/townie way

1. You're scum, and you want to push a mislynch, do you want to push it through hard and look like you're tunneled in, confbiased and emotional, or would you rather look calm, controlled, and regularly offer your victim a way out?
2. You're town, you run into an argument that you can't handle at the moment, do you tell the person you're arguing with to leave, or do you just leave the thread yourself until things have cooled down?

i think it depends on the player and what exactly is going on in the thread at that moment. i can't answer this in a general sense, sorry, it's too context and player specific.

Really not sure what you mean by Ank reconsidering her read in real time, but I'll assume you're talking about these?

more 1281 and 1296 taken together

I'd argue that barely reads as reconsidering read and more like damage control, because when you get in a 1v1, player respect for your case goes down and people are a lot less likely to get lynched, like urap2 pointed out yesterday. This argument is reinforced by these posts:

yeah but those happened several hours later. in the moment (when other people were siding with her against brig - me, urap2, reck) i don't know why she would unvote if she was winning the argument already and had support. she didn't really *need* to do damage control just then

==

idk. overall i just don't read the whole exchange the way you do

[skitter30]

First and foremost you should know that you will slip up as scum. And someone who's been sitting on your wagon trying to push your lynch the whole game will get a foothold. All it takes is one wrong move and then you, like Brig, could have a giant wagon of people on you.

i don't really know ank's scumgame that well, and i've never seen her towngame, so this is with a grain of salt, but my general vibe is that the cockiness/confidence that this won't happen is more likely to come from town!her

[skitter30]

Skitter I wanna talk cuz I really don't agree with your Ank townread right now. Are you impressed that she can spam the thread by talking about herself, is that it?

i'm around now
more in how cocky/confident she is in giving those arguments and that doing so won't ultimately lead to her lynch. the self-meta itself doesn't interest me that much either way

like i guess it's a kinda similar tone to what i have when i know that i'm hilariously obvtown and that i can say whatever i wnat and it's never going to end up in my lynch (like how i felt for the last ~three days of the prey game, even tho i never explicitly said this); i get a lot cockier and a lot less worried about how people view me, and that's the vibe i kinda get from her rn

and again i don't *know* her scumgame super well but i've seen/been in two of them and i never really got the vibe taht she's *that* confident as scum

[skitter30]

Nim and Brig are scum. At least one of Enter and Ank are town. I'll willingly wagon Nim or Brig at any point.

unfortunately nothing you're scumreading nim for is ai
(not that i know how to read either but yeah)
i'm undecided wrt brig atm

[skitter30]

good god could you miss the mark harder if you triedpeople are on brigitte because brig is refusing to engage w/ me and instead is just antagonizing me and going "reck isnt reading the game so idc what he says"and then people are asking brig why she thinks that about me and she's refusing to answer them or give examples

And people wonder why I say reck isn't reading.

[skitter30]

Skitter. I will forgive you if you scumread me.

i don't liek the way you're playing but idk rn if what you're doing is actually scummy

[skitter30]

enter & brigitte being on the same side of things makes this REALLY easy for me

p.edit: i tried to make one fucking post and she immediately snapped back with another jab about me not reading the game
zero good faith
she's welcome to put the first foot forward and try not being a total twat

i don't think enter is scum here tbh

[skitter30]

Yes, I become accountable for not dying later in the game and for having to either keep up the town leader persona or to find a way to 'apathy out' of that role.

This way I don't have to do any of that lol

P sure this is nightless as of RN, and "not dying" is a pretty silly excuse to lynch a town member.

No deadlines mafia we kept Nancy alive even though she was strong town because she was pocketed by the entire scum team.

well yeah

I'd also have the burden of making sure that kind of argument is the first thing people think of when they ask why I'm still alive rather than "oh they're a deepwolf"

ngl one of the reasons why i'm fine townbinning you for now is because i figure that if you're scum it'll probably become obvious if you never die (i guess i keep forgetting that the game is nightless rn so maybe this isn't the best idea)

[skitter30]

I have more to say on that and how my fundamental thought process as town works and WHY I've gone this specific route for this specific situation, but I'm pretty certain it'll just get written off as self meta so I'll just stop here and leave the thread for a while

i'd be interested in hearing this, when you get back

[skitter30]

last game was my second game with you. this is my third. last game i didn't have the evidence i have now that yes, you're great to work with and i want to do that, but trying to do so has you paranoid of me so i'm not sure why i bothered. and that's not on you but it is frustrating, because i simply don't think it's possible for you to have a good view of the game if i'm your only actual scumread. and for what reason? it's paranoia and you acknowledge it's paranoia.

sorry :/
i don't really know how to turn the paranoia on or off, it just kinda is.

idk maybe i should just ignore the paranoia for a bit and see what happens if i just kinda like acknowledge it now and then let it be and re-assess in a couple of days? because if you're town i *do* want to work with you i guess i just don't know how to get over this really and i don't know how or why i townread you last game either so i can't really use that method for this game; the townread just kinda appeared one day

and yeah i don't think i have super great reads rn in a general sense, since i'm townreading most of the active posters rn and this game doesn't quite feel like there's a lurker scumteam tbh

rn i townread: urap2-slot, reck, enter, and ank
do you disagree with any of those?

the main active poster rn that i'm not sure about is brig. i don't like the way she's interacting with people and i want to scumread her for it but i'm not sure if she's what she's doing is actually scummy so idk

also can you talk about your flubber read a bit more?

[skitter30]

still catching up. still liking Flubber, especially in 1123. i'll admit i don't have the best awareness of the full gamestate but Flubber doesn't feel like he has a lot of support or is really "in" a group, which i like for town more than scum.

huh
in the last game i played with flubber (jingle's game) scum!me was gearing up to get him mislynched and ddj actually used this exact reason for why he was town and for arguing against it
a lot of flubber's posts are like bad in the sense that they make poor optics, but i'm not sure that's actually scummy; i do overall get the vibe that he actually believes in what he's saying tho

[skitter30]

yeah i remember coalition, and i'm aware that sometimes it's just lurker scum; it definitely does happen
i don't know why but my gut is telling me that this isn't the case here

there's almost too much conflict happening amongst the active posters for it to be entirely town-facilitated if that makes sense

[skitter30]

there's almost too much conflict happening amongst the active posters for it to be entirely town-facilitated if that makes sense

perhaps i have an overly negative view of ms towns, but i'm pretty sure if you stuck a group of players in a game and gave all of them town PMs, they would rip each other's heads off.

i mean sure, it definitely could be that everyone sniping at each other is town and that scum are entirely in the group of players that are less influential and/or lurking
it's entirely gut rn but i feel like that isn't the case

i don't have any way to substantiate this or explain why tho

[skitter30]

@Enter, any particular reason, you ignored this post?

I didn't, you posted that after anything I've posted today.

So, you’re here now. Do you tr Rec? He put NMSA at L-1.

this bit was bothering me - i'm not sure why the fact he put nmsa at l-1 is relevant to his alignment.
i mean, it definitely *could* be, but she seems to be indicating here that it's an inherently ai act (in which direction i can't actually tell, now that i think about it), and i don't know why

[skitter30]

What pinged you?

Other than the L-1, at this point just a gut read. That’s why I’m asking and not voting.

right, she's insinuating that it's scummy, but again, the 'why' bit has not been explained

[skitter30]

that's fine, just knowing you have is enough to lower the possible people you can be down to two people anyways

and btw that means that them playing like this is NAI

I would still tr you here, even if I hadn’t played with you before but obviously that helps.

i feel like the ank townread is lazy and/or undeveloped too

[skitter30]

Nimueh
Ankamius
Skitter
Urap

are all town. I don’t understand Brigitte’s Ankamius tunnel. Her case on her is not making sense to me and she discredits any opinion that doesn’t support her Ankamius sr.

Brigitte started pushing Ankamius when she disagreed with her NMSA push iirc. It concerns me that she serms to be sr and shading her for having a different opinion.

why am i town

[skitter30]

ngl one of the reasons why i'm fine townbinning you for now is because i figure that if you're scum it'll probably become obvious if you never die (i guess i keep forgetting that the game is nightless rn so maybe this isn't the best idea)

Why do you expect an ank nk?

not particularly like rn or tonight (or i guess not-tonight given the game is nightless) but i'd kinda expect her to be deaded before like lylo or so if she continues playing like this in a game that had normal nks

[skitter30]

I'm so far behind and I dont feel like I'm a part of this game and I dont know how to get a word in edge wise

Someone spoon feed me or ask me to look at a specific something or something

what do you think of the ank/brig/reck thing that started around here:

What do you think of Brigittes case reck

[skitter30]

i think you're on a trajectory for that to be the gamestate in the nearish future.
maybe not today but like tomorrow maybe

like are you getting n1'd here? no
but you've got enough townreads from enough influential people that i can make an educated guess for what the gamestate will look like in coming days

(i know that there aren't actually nk's rn; i'm talking about what i think would happen in a similar gamestate where nks were a thing)

[skitter30]

i don't think she read the post where you made your ultimatum yet

[skitter30]

i don't think she read the post where you made your ultimatum yet

[skitter30]

ngl i kinda want to vote nimueh; she feels really flat here for her and i'm kinda surprised that she's not scumreading enter here tbh

pedit

WHY ARE YOU ASKING MY OPINION!!!!!!

[skitter30]

i meant more why are you asking me in particular, not why you're asking in a general sense

[skitter30]

so is putting someone at l-1 alwayhs scummy?
... like how do you think hammers happen?
and doesn't put someone at l-1 given the oppurtunity for *town* to hammer as well?

like you're treating the l-1 as an inherently scummy act and i don't know why

[skitter30]

VOTE: nimueh

[skitter30]

idk rn
she feels kinda flat for her, and more ... going-through-the-motions-y
that could be a function of being sick, idk
her read on me and on ank are very shallow too

[skitter30]

idk how to answer that without linking to the previous game i played with her and outing her main really tbh
just less invested, and less of an emotional response to being scumread
her reason for townreading me feels like textbook/classic/trite, and not like it's something she really believes/thinks strongly

[skitter30]

Actually now that it's pretty much confirmed who Nim is, I wonder if my usual tell will work this game too.

Who is Nim? Is she the alt of someone I should know?

no, i don't think you would have come across her prior given the queues that you've played in

[skitter30]

it's a thing not to out alts if the player doesn't want it to be outed; it's considered rude
it's pretty obvious who she is tho if you've played with her before, she has an idiosyncratic writing style

[skitter30]

uh remember what happened in the last game i played with you ??????????

[skitter30]

i don't understand the narrative nimueh is pushing rn

[skitter30]

i'm not really seeing it rn

[skitter30]

uh remember what happened in the last game i played with you ??????????

You realize my hands are kind of tied in answering this kind of question?

I will just say that I want to be a player who is considered a valuable asset to town and not one who has a negative effect on the gamestate.

I’d be more than happy to elaborate on this via PM post-game, if you like?

i mean yes i think this should be addressed at some point, and i told you that at the time
i'm not entirely sure what i'm supposed to be doing here exactly; you know how i feel about this

[skitter30]

i don't love the vote either. obviously i don't know you but i'm agreeing with Ank that you look more like town than scum and skitter's case on you just seems to be gut based about you seeming flat.
it just doesn't feel right. especially with both me and Ankamius giving reasons for you to be town that skitter doesn't seem to have engaged with.

if ank is that confident that she's town i'll unvote; i'm not entirely sure i can read her rationally rn for a whole lot of out-of-game reasons and so i don't particularly trust my read on her

she does feel scummy to me tho

if this becomes/is a problem i'll rep-out
(and again i would not have joined this game if i knew who her main was)

[skitter30]

aw i wanted the tictac slot

hello!
i'm pretty sure your slot is town!

[skitter30]

idk how good my reads are this game so far
i have a bunch of townreads (your slot, ank, reck, and enter)
and a bunch of people that are null because they've been lurking-ish (luckily creature replaced one of those, so hopefully that'll be easy)
and i don't ahve super strong scumreads rn

i'm not townreading chara yet, and nimueh feels scummy to me but i'm not sure i should be relying on my read there so yeah
not entirely sure where i want to vote rn
maybe i'll go back to brigitte.

[skitter30]

the 'cleanest' wagon is definitely your wagon imo
also xtoxm's slot is already voting there

i kinda want to vote tris too actually

[skitter30]

have i played with you before?

[skitter30]

no because i played with nic cage

[skitter30]

idk how good my reads are this game so far
i have a bunch of townreads (your slot, ank, reck, and enter)
and a bunch of people that are null because they've been lurking-ish (luckily creature replaced one of those, so hopefully that'll be easy)
and i don't ahve super strong scumreads rn

i'm not townreading chara yet, and nimueh feels scummy to me but i'm not sure i should be relying on my read there so yeah
not entirely sure where i want to vote rn
maybe i'll go back to brigitte.

ok i wont sheep you then lol
i looked at elbirns iso and i wanna say its his scum game
my meta on him is like 4 years old tho so idk

why'd you think it's his scum game?

[skitter30]

@ank that was quite interesting to read through actually, both in a this-game-specific sense and in a general how-you-approach-games sense

do you/ can you ever fake being cocky like this as scum?

[skitter30]

lmao thought I was replacing into a mini normal.

hello!

[skitter30]

ok i think that's good enough for me rn
VOTE: brigitte

[skitter30]

that's l-1 btw

[skitter30]

well tbf urap2 was at least in part voting her because he was annoyd she was purposefully antogonizing reck (in addition to the fact that he thought doing so was scummy in this context), and when she wouldn't stop he decided he couldn't play with her and repped out

[skitter30]

so i guess for me with chara if they're town i think it'll click eventually so i guess i'm kinda just waiting to see when/if that'll happen

[skitter30]

so i guess for me with chara if they're town i think it'll click eventually so i guess i'm kinda just waiting to see when/if that'll happen

if you have the time for it, i'd love if you read one of my very recent scumgames. it's okay if you don't like cold meta, though.

you could link it and if i have time i'll look at it, but no promises since things are kinda busy this week
i look at cold meta as more of a secondary source of forming reads, so like i'll use it to try to supplemant what i'm thinking but i don't *base* reads on it usually

[skitter30]

potential VLA

my dog has suddenly taken a turn for the worse out of nowhere so if i have to put her down tomorrow im not gonna be in a great headspace for a bit.

I'm so sorry to hear that
I hope you and your dog are doing ok

[skitter30]

I'm kinda ready for this day to be over tbh

[skitter30]

I kinda liked the formation of the brigitte wagon tbh; dont like as much that its been dissolving over the last page or so

[skitter30]

actually maybe i wouldn't call Brigitte town. she'd be in a null category because i don't know what to do there.
Ank's stance i get because it seems in line with how she's been forming her reads, but the lack of reasoning i've seen from skitter about Brigitte scum is bothering me.
but i might've missed that reasoning somewhere, if so i would really appreciate a quote.

i basically decided to sheep ank on brigitte (kinda exactly like how i just sheeped you on varsoon and stopped pushing him last time even though i didn't particularly agree)

i don't particularly see it but rn i don't townread brigitte really and i townread ank enough and am ready for the day to be over enough that i'm just willing to sheep her

none of the other wagons rn are particularly appealing to me, and i think since the gameday is starting to come to a close we should be coalescing onto one wagon instead of starting new ones. (i do kinda like the idea of a tris wagon tbh)

like it's not that i really scumread brigitte, it's more like it's the most agreeable wagon to me rn out of all of the existing wagons (and the fact that the wagon is largely formed by slots i townread reassures me too)

not sure why you've lost your townread on me

[skitter30]

i basically decided to sheep ank on brigitte (kinda exactly like how i just sheeped you on varsoon and stopped pushing him last time even though i didn't particularly agree)

even though Varsoon was scum and sheeping me was the wrong thing to do, as it turned out?

it's just sort of weird to me that you'd bring that up as a reason for you to be sheeping again when last time it didn't work out for you.

and that's different from me asking you to vote tris, since you do actually scumread her.

cuz i'm not townreading you rn; my read on the player asking me to do something (+ my feelings on the other viable alternatives) is pretty important (and i guess how stubborn i'm feeling too)

like, yes, you were wrong on varsoon, and no, i wasn't particularly vibing with your varsoon read, but i was townreading you enough and you had alternatives i liked enough (ie implosion) that i was willing to listen to you for that then

there aren't really other viable wagons that i find interesting rn - nimueh i've rethought and i think i shouldnt' open that can of worms rn and i think the vote yesterday was for largely out-of-games reasons and i don't know if i actually scumread her (or how to read her for that matter); creature is easy to read so i'm fine giving him space to do his thing (ie hte tictac slot) and i'm townreading ank and this day is beginning to exhaust me so i'm fine sheeping ank on brigitte rn because i'm not really townreading brigitte either

i don't really scumread tris hard enough to lol-follow you on her rn given that i *don't* townread you

another thing for skitter: you've justified your paranoia about me with the lack of nightkills multiple times; scum Chara can't remove you by killing you.
but you also have mentioned a few times that you keep forgetting the game is nightless, regarding your townread on Ank that she would probably be nightkilled if town.

so it's a weird juxtaposition between remembering it's nightless every single time you mention your paranoia of me, but then what about your decision regarding Ank? are you stringly townreading her or are you townreading her with the caveat she would be removed if town?

and then something something tmi, i feel like skitter's one of the only players who even keeps bringing up the nightless thing.

hi, remember jingle's game? which sucked for a whole bunch of reasons as scum, one of which was that it was quasi-nightless and required a ridiculous number of mislynches (that would have been in my rant that i never ended up writing); i spent *a lot* of time thinking about all the various ways to handle all the townie threats that i couldn't kill. since then i'm kinda hyper-aware of how nightless changes the dynamic for scum (especially if you aren't expecting the game to be nightless, like this one), and what tactics they need to use to handle strong-ish townies - and i'm also very aware that i'm a pretty strong town player who gets herself nk'd more often than not these days.

so in that context, i'm applying my experiences in that game to try to figure out how scum might interac with me in a nightless context, and the way you were interacting with me kinda fit that profile (it felt pretty simialr to what i was trying to do with ddj there, except that i kinda failed miserably at it)

at the same time a game being quasi-nightless is unusual enough that i kinda default go back to night-ful games when analyzing the game, and i do think that in a normal/night game ank gets nk'd at some point here. i also don't know if the night-kills will get turned back on at some point, which is also something i'm keeping in mind. for right now, given that i don't know if the nk's will come back, i'm fine townbinning her and re-assessing at a later point if it seems like it'll just be a nightless game

K I'm 66 pages back, no one will talk to me, and I now refuse to acknowledge anything before this post. The game starts now.

i mean i did

pedit: i had a thought about you being scum together but i don't feel like skitter would softbus her partner on day 1.

it looks really bad if scum you ever flips.

so i find it unlikely it's both of you.

nah,i don't softbus; if i'm distancing i go all in

there's a lot of things that scum!me is quite awful at - screwing with associatives is not one of them; i'm quite cognizant of how i'd be read in the event of a partner's flip (honestly, in the event of *anyone's* flip) - when i'm scum and know everyone's alignment i prioritize making sure i look good when people flip; i'm pretty good at projecting what a given vote/unvote made right now will look like after said person fliips in like three dayphases or whatever

[skitter30]

(and the fact that the wagon is largely formed by slots i townread reassures me too)

And me who you considered voting earlier.

*largely*

and in comparison to the other wagons it's hands-down the best/cleanest/purest/whatever

[skitter30]

like on day1 i don't particularly expect a wagon to be *completely* clean
and i don't scumread you enough that your very presence on it would make me not want it

[skitter30]

K I'm 66 pages back, no one will talk to me, and I now refuse to acknowledge anything before this post. The game starts now.

Gosh golly gee wizz I cant wait to start playing this game with you guys

VOTE: Chara

Why are you being a meanie to skitty shes nice

does nice mean you townread me or is that just like a judgement on my character
if the former, why?
if the latter, why is that a reason to vote chara?

[skitter30]

i don't think i much like your read progression on me tbh

the fact that it's *me* you've lost a townread on is not really the problem i'm having, it's more that the things you're bringing up i don't think are actually, like, scummy, or reasons to drop a townread.

a) not sure why me being paranoid of you is sketchy, we've done this song-and-dance before (coalition. although, tbf, you did think i was scummy there for being parnoid of obvtown!you and trying to undermine your position in the townbloc, so i guess there is precedent for you thinking i'm scummy for being paranoid of you, tbf)

b) dinging me for doing the same thing i did in prey is ... quite odd tbh, and i'm having some trouble wrapping my head around why you think that's odd/of-note.

c) i think that referring to me incorporating the currently nightless aspect of the game into my reads 'tmi' is ridiculous and borderline shading given that it's something that's in the mod's like third post of the game. of *course* that's going to influence how i approach the game, *especially* after jingle's game.

p-edit oh hi i'm around-ish i guess. i was kinda typing this and getting distracted doing other things

[skitter30]

you don't think skitter downplays the strength of her reads this game and suggests you don't sheep her as scum?
to do otherwise would be inconsistent with her play this game. why don't you think scum her would?

tbf i do think those are things i might/could do as scum
i don't think i'd have been hanging around in real-time to say it tho

[skitter30]

I don't like 1923

Ugh I'm really not sure now

do tell

[skitter30]

I don't like 1923

Ugh I'm really not sure now

do tell

I thought the case itself was town but not necessarily compelling, and the way you approached that post gave a pretty strong impression to me that you were looking to discredit it rather than debate it

Like I hadn't seen your tone drastically shift away from what you're saying so far this game, but it definitely is there

i feel like someone actually, like, scumreading me (and it getting some amount of support!) at this stage makes the game more ... idk the right word ... compelling maybe in that it doesn't happen that often and i feel like i actually have something immediate to argue about and like invest in if that makes sense, especially when i had been feeling liek the dayphase was starting to drag

like i don't get scumread that often and it is kinda fun and/or challenging to try outargue whatever it is; i also get kinda cocky in that i do think i can outargue most things thrown at me, and someone scumreading me when i dont' think they should be kinda gives me sometihng immediate and interesting to argue about and get invested in

yeah idk how well i explained that. i do agree that i approached that a bit differently emotionally that i did most of the rest of the game