Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Chara]

hello everyone!
VOTE: skitter
back in a day or so.

[Chara]

hello again, i didn't expect to be unavailable for the opening of this game. i hate when that happens.
u2's posts on this game feel kind of wooden. i misread him in the only other game we have together so i'll take that with a grain of salt, but yes.

pedit: oh, you're both online.

[Chara]

which way did you misread him? (ie he was town and you thought he was scum or the other way around)
i don't really feel like he's being wooden tbh

does this make you scumread him? if yes what do you think that says about nmsa's alignment?

it's lines like the last line of 332 that gave me the sense u2 was just not thinking critically on that page.
i don't get the sense it's a scum bus, no, so if i'm right on this intuition it'd mean nmsa is town. but i need to read the rest of the game, which i'll do now.

and when i read him incorrectly he was town and i had him in my PoE.

[Chara]

Branson is going to be a nightmare to read due to the style she's going for on this alt. i can see the draw of doing it but it means my methods will not work.

[Chara]

Branson is going to be a nightmare to read due to the style she's going for on this alt. i can see the draw of doing it but it means my methods will not work.

I'm curious what exactly you mean by this, since I never had you pegged as somebody that could recognize the differences between my towngame and scumgame.

you aren't, i don't know your meta.
but you mentioned that you're purposely only playing logically, and avoiding using your own intuition. for me specifically that's a hard thing to read because i can't see if you're town based on your belief in your own conclusions. and things of that nature. if this was just you playing as yourself i'd find it easier, but because you're tailoring your style to an alt there's a degree of separation between your true feelings and what you post.
that's the sense i got from your explanation and the bits of you i've read here.

[Chara]

5. Chara, I like your new avatar, but more coming out of this slot would be nice. Lady Angel and Nimueh should post a little more as well, on some of the other relevant topics.

thank you. it's actually my original avatar with this account.

voting me for pressure when you say it's "to get more content from me" isn't really pressure. at least hint that you think i'm scummy or something. :>
i'm posting as i have time. i'm extremely busy. it's IRL so pressing me for more will do little.

i also haven't read most of his posts but i'd call Enter likelier town than scum here.

[Chara]

either enter is town who purposefully acted scummy to try to get a wagon on themselves

i just came out of a game where Enter did this as town. like, this exact thing. it's actually really funny.

Reck's reaction to it isn't that bad. maybe a little over the top but i could understand the frustration.

[Chara]

It would be easier and more compelling for people to just go read like 10 posts but

In 1915 NMSA came in with an act. They played up the whole newbie thing (they have some outside experience), going so far as to claim VT in their first post saying "It's okay to say this, right?"

In 1917 they were town and they had a far less awkward, far breezier tone. There was zero posturing. Even under pressure and a decent way into the game they stood firm on not having any reads.

Here we once again have an act. It reads just as false as 1915, just with a different shtick. It's scum nmsa

after reading this i decided to read nmsa because his ISO isn't very long.
i still don't like this argument because you really are just... metaing him off of one towngame and one scumgame and saying it looks closer to the scumgame. that's just not good meta.

[Chara]

i think Enter can be town from making multiple posts i think are very town from Enter, even if i haven't read his entire ISO.
in reading the rest of your conversation with him i haven't had a reason to rethink that. everything i've seen him doing so far is consistent with town Enter who likes to push wagons he finds fruitful, that i just experienced. i'd be pretty surprised to see him scum here.

i don't find it fair to compare my play here in early game when i've said i'm busy irl to my play in Starcraft 2.

i still haven't read the entire game here, and i probably won't. i'll read it in parts as i find it relevant. there's no point in trying to get a read on the entire game, it's not going to happen right now. what i can do is pursue reads that i feel i can get somewhere with.

my read on wmsa independent of you is closer to null, but leaning townish. i don't agree that this is an "evolution of his scumgame" because i simply don't believe it's possible to tell that from so little meta. but i hadn't realized you'd correctly pegged him as town in his towngame, and then correctly done so when he was scum. i thought you were going back and comparing his play after the fact.

[Chara]

the continued conversation between u2 and Enter makes me want to pit u2 as town as well. i need to actually dig into that later but i have other things to do.

i don't know anything about tris besides join date, but i'm guessing that's either someone's alt or someone with experience. i wish i had a read there, was going to say tris is pinging me a bit but the request for questions directed towards them feels towny to me and it might just be the question-heavy style i don't like.

skitter: do you happen to have a read on me? i lack a good one on you.

[Chara]

hopefully i will soon. school and work combined have just been a lot.
i won't be able to properly read you until i can really jump in here, but thanks for the answer.

[Chara]

that bit about wanting to work well together (but actually win this time) applies to me here too.

now that i look at it again, nmsa's read on Nimueh is sort of strange to me. finding reasons to vote nmsa is bad according to nsma, but the slight scumlean comes from lurking instead of that?

[Chara]

i wanna put a townlean on Nimueh here, actually. i don't know how to best explain it except that she's being very straightforward in her intentions. and that's regardless of nmsa's alignment, but most of my reads tend to be like that.
night.

[Chara]

first one is from me reading the most recent page, second is after seening u2's reaction to what i said and more of your conversatiom as it kept going.

[Chara]

Chara, do you have any scum reads? I noticed your vote is on Skitter, but you said that you're not going to be able to try and sort her until later

skitter was an rvs vote. i don't feel like voting yet, but i like the Reck wagon.

[Chara]

@enter I'm with you voting on Reck, and I'm eager to see and support this play style of yours. Why did we move off of chara?

why did

you

move off of me?

[Chara]

this sort of makes me wonder if this is an Enter pocket attempt. though if so it'd be rather blatant and possibly not effective.

so you're still scumreading me, if i read between the lines?
Enter voted me for pressure, you voted me because you thought i did scummy things. now you're unvoting and you appear to be following Enter in that new direction, but your original vote on me was your own idea and not because of Enter?

[Chara]

i assumed Enter unvoted me because i began participating, if marginally, though i should probably ask if that's the reason. i'm not in his readslist.

pedit: i'm on skitter's side if being there means thinking she's town. i don't know if she is with a lot of confidence but of the two Reck is absolutely more likely to flip scum.
also i'm biased because i want to work with her again.

[Chara]

i'm not interested in wagoning u2 right now, but there's definitely scum utility here

if

Reck ends up town. there's much less if this is a bus, because the towncred scum u2 gains from helping you is a lot less valuable than where i think this push will go.

pedit: it makes sense from town u2 too, but the way he's saying outright that he wants to help you and figure you out here pinged me. as i said if it's a buddy attempt it's pretty blatant so i don't know how likely i find that.

[Chara]

..no? i think Reck could be scum here. his reaction to you earlier was over the top and as i said, i like the wagon.
i'm not voting because i want to get a better sense of the whole game first to see where to direct myself.

[Chara]

and skitter's scumgame is good, but what she's said about her limitations is also correct. i can't call her confident town but right now i have no real reason to be suspicious.

[Chara]

how'd i get to townread for you from hard to read?

u2: i didn't think it likely that scum you would hop on the Reck wagon following Enter if you were scum with him. and that if he did flip town, there's a lot of value for scum to sheep Enter in the way you did, encouraging his style and saying you're doing it to read him.
but i might abandon that whole line of thought due to you sticking with nmsa scum as your wanted lynch for the day.

[Chara]

that question in my last post is to Reck.

[Chara]

Enter: i don't have strong feelings on the other low contents right now, Nimueh's posts are just ones i got a feeling from specifically.

[Chara]

i want to put my confidence in Brigitte town as maybe 60%. but i really want to see what she has sorted here.

[Chara]

??? i don't read it as a pocketing attempt at all? it makes sense as a progression from his argument with enter that ended with urap concluding that the whole thing might just be a playstyle clash

i know it makes

sense

, it was a bad gut feeling that i got from the posting but i acknowledge it might just be a feeling and nothing more. and as i said later i don't think it is anything after all.

brigitte: not sure what you mean by putting up a wall. like i feel disconnected from the game? because i do.

[Chara]

i have this really awkward feeling here where i want to be annoyed about being viewed as disconnected even if it might be right, because i feel that way and that my reads aren't as strong as i'd like. and i also want to say it reaffirms my townreads on brigitte and skitter somewhat that they both picked up on the same thing. so i guess i'm annoyed but also got information out of it. i don't know.

pedit: skitter, is the meta you linked with Branson easy to read?

[Chara]

it's not because i'm busy anymore, for what it's worth. i have the evening off today.

[Chara]

although if she's scum i'm not sure what she's actually trying to get out of this? there's at least half a dozen easier pushes she could be making here and like that's never going to end in a mislynch on me here realistically

does she know enough of you to be aware you're hard to mislynch. i thought your only game with her was this scumgame you two had together.

[Chara]

it's not because i'm busy anymore, for what it's worth. i have the evening off today.

How can I help you get reconnected to the game?

i do appreciate the offer, but this one might be on me. normally i find myself posting against the status quo but i'm sort of agreeing with the townreads being stated and the scumreads being floated. so there isn't anything for me to feel strongly about arguing against.
that's just a guess. but it's certainly different from my usual pattern of being mildly and ineffectually controversial.

[Chara]

sorry, not trying to be annoying, but i did kinda get this vibe that your posts were like distracted or distanced or idk the right word
i'm not sure if it's ai because it could be like an irl thing which is why i wasn't really mentioning it till brigitte brought it up but it's def a thing i noticed

you're really not being annoying, it's on me. and you're probably right. i don't know if i'd call it irl or just being not in a great mafia place when this happened to start and then not really getting back into it for whatever reason.

as long as i don't fall into inactivity it should be fine.
u2 was probably paranoia, i know i get suspicious of players i don't know well being... i don't know how to better phrase it beyond "understanding and nice"? i still think the conversation with Enter was good.

[Chara]

Chara be all the controversial in the world =)

Just want you to be engaged because I have hard time reading disengaged <3

i want to be controversial, that i'm not now is the problem.
Enter's towny, skitter's towny, you're towny. even u2 is towny. there's nothing i find particularly in need of correcting. i could be paranoid of one of those but i'm simply not feeling that.

[Chara]

i don't find Branson especially towny, which is sort of the same as being fine with others finding her scummy. i'm having trouble actually sorting the slot.

and u2 voting nmsa is exactly what he said he wanted to be doing, so i feel no need to insult him. :> plus, he's nice.

[Chara]

now that i look at it again, nmsa's read on Nimueh is sort of strange to me. finding reasons to vote nmsa is bad according to nsma, but the slight scumlean comes from lurking instead of that?

nmsa, would appreciate a response to this when you're back.

[Chara]

@mod: i'll be v/la friday and saturday.

i'll still be here tonight.

[Chara]

like i'm not sure what the scum motivation is for such a massive read reversal here
cuz if they're partners i don't think he just randomly drops the push
and if nmsa is town and urap is scum like why bother doing this rn?

the fact that i still went "but u2 might still be scum here doing this as a smokescreen in spite of nmsa being town!"
and that's... stupid. and my gut is being stupid. i think this is a case where i have to agree with you on u2 being town and just ignore my gutread on him because it's just making zero sense.

but yes, i agree. i'm kind of happy he's dropped it too, as i never really liked the wagon.

[Chara]

Ankamius, are you still scumreading skitter? maybe i'm tired but i can't tell right now.

[Chara]

Ank is selling towncred and reck is buying it up.

i too like to throw the english language into a blender

what

i think both of these lines need to be appreciated more. i like them.

pedit: hm, okay. @Ank: are you concerned like skitter is that your reads aren't syncing?

pedit: hahaha.

[Chara]

i know Brigitte is an alt of somebody i know but i don't.... know... who.
and i can't find out anyway because outing alts is mean.

[Chara]

i mean if he's scum here i have no idea what he thinks he's doing rn or like what hte point of his nmsa push was in the first place

let's wagon ank instead

i'd love to, but why's she acting like this? i know posturing is a thing, but she's aggressively doing her own thing here and i don't know if that would get scum her anywhere.
that's just a guess and i don't exactly like her posts either, though.

[Chara]

So why the long face?

i'm disappointed that my gut is being stupid. i thought that was clear. and i'm tired.

[Chara]

null: Chara

I haven't really sorted Flubbernugget and Brigitte

what's the difference between me and Flubber/Brigitte?

[Chara]

i think tris's reply to skitter is townish as is hammering "for the lulz" but it'd depend on the player if i really want to townread it. i don't understand why scum does it either so i'm not sure why you're scumreading the action itself, skitter.

[Chara]

VOTE: tris

[Chara]

i know. wild, right.

[Chara]

i think it was Ankamius who said scum are happy with the game state.
i'm sure there's a scumster floating around in my townreads (which are also mostly the game's townreads) right now, but for the most part i think scum is content with discussion between townies and pressure on other townies.
it's a feeling i need to learn to recognize better that says scum isn't being movers or shakers, which they do sometimes.

and u2, because i noticed this now: my question to Ankamius about the read on skitter was because i was curious about the lack of wanting to understand skitter, when it looked like the strong scumread was gone. and i think cooperation is towny for obvious reasons, while the many mentions of how Ankamius is doing something because "it's funny" only serve to obfuscate her intentions and are either indicative of an ego, which is towny, or scum who knows that trolling is harder to read.
so i guess i am scumreading Ankamius, but if she is scum i think her strategy here is pretty high level. and i think understanding her better would lead to a better read so i might leave it at that for now.

tris, on the other hand, i think could be scum and i find little to suggest otherwise. her explanation for the hammer i liked initially but in hindsight it was really NAI because scum can be honest about doing something for no real reason, so tris is left with an awkward ISO that doesn't feel like it's hunting for anything.

[Chara]

oh, and my original point in mentioning skitter was supposed to be that she would never be a possible mislynch for me as scum, because she's... skitter. but i got distracted in my last post, haha.

i'm not very surprised at the nullscum reads i'm getting, i don't like my own play much here either. but i'm feeling better about things now! just won a towngame where i had good reads and i'd like to do that again, i can be better than this.

and i'm reminded of Reck's readlist in 500. it bothers me. branson and skitter especially i could understand townreading, but i'm in that pile because others are worse.
okay, does that mean that those in the null pile have done scummier things than me, who Reck couldn't give a good reason to townread, but not scummy enough to be in the scum pile, which is composed of the low content posters and nobody else?

[Chara]

if i had to borrow someone's tinfoil hat for a moment (i don't have my own), i would say Reck put me and skitter in his townreads because he knows we aren't mislynchable and isn't going to pursue that.

[Chara]

Also @chara: some of your posts feel a little pocket-y to me and its starting to make me paranoid of you

telling me this won't change my behaviour towards you. i was right last time in townreading you for the same things i'm seeing here, i know all of the real time posting you've been doing isn't your preference as scum, and about the only thing i don't like from you this game is that the depth of your analysis doesn't feel as meaty.
but that last one doesn't feel like a scumtell, though if it is that'd be an interesting one, and i still agree with a good number of your reads. though obviously not on Reck.

i'm not sure why you think i would be less... "pocket-y" given our history together and how your reads were essentially mirrors of mine but better in our last game. you're a really good townplayer and it grabs my attention.

[Chara]

I think reck has been pretty townie tbh

we agree on tris, but why do you find Reck towny?

[Chara]

ignore the down arrow.

[Chara]

Ankamius, telling me that your behaviour is a huge town tell is great, but i'm not going to take it seriously unless it's in postgame or it's somebody else talking

about

you.
unless you were talking about my alignment and not yours?

[Chara]

not sure why you're scumreading him tbh? is it mostly because he townbinned both of us, and you think if he's scum he thinks we're both not really lynchable so this is his way of dealing with us?

no, it was the reaction to Enter at the beginning but mostly the read on me. i don't care that he townreads you so much that he put me in his townlist for no adequate reason i could see.

[Chara]

tbh this is kinda the vibe that i'm getting with you? ie that you think i'm not lynchable so you need to come up with some other way to deal with me (especially in a game that's nightless!), and so you've settled for trying to pocket and/or get me to townread you

okay, there's nothing i can do about this and i can't be more clear about why i'm reading you this way than i already have been.
how would your perception of town me be reading you right now? if not like this.

i was thinking about this earlier, and was wondering if it was just paranoia combined with my lackluster play, which would make sense. it's still annoying but i think if you are town you'll figure out i am eventually.
but you've said

yourself

you think you're mostly out of your scumrange here, and you should know i'm aware of your meta and paying attention to it. so what reason would i even have to do anything but townread you, or listen to your reads?

[Chara]

I'm being consistent (:

I play by the seat of my pants as scum even if I plan everything behind the scenes

I play entirely to a plan as town and try to hide it

So really it's not all that big a difference, but if you can tell that there's a consistent agenda behind my posting, then that's almost certainly a town game from me

this is still more self meta that just isn't useful for me. you're so aware of your meta that any scum competence from you would mean you could fake it.

[Chara]

i looked at Reck's reaction to the tris fakehammer again and i guess i don't see a reason to fake that. i've seen scum be genuinely frustrated at bad townplay before, but tris's hammer had no real game ramifications so it's more likely town that would be bothered, in my opinion.
i like my tris vote more either way. Ankamius i can't read and the self meta really isn't helping.

pedit: look, without actual experience with you here or a lot of evidence that is actual evidence i can't use what you're saying here to inform my read in any real way. i even believe you believe this but selectively noting your own meta is something i've seen scum do.

[Chara]

Ankamius, your last three posts are just "Chara townread me", what do you think about the other stuff i've just said here? like Reckoner, tris, skitter's feeling that i'm pocket-y.

[Chara]

okay, so you find this strategy of your hidden agenda useful for you, that's great, but it's really hard to interact with.
you do you.

[Chara]

i'm not scumreading Ankamius and i wouldn't really want her lynched anytime soon, because when i'm frustrated by someone that often points to town.
her whole style isn't uncommon but there's an element of secrecy and a facade to it that on a meta level i find anti-town as town. i guess i can't complain even if i disagree with the reads as long as the result is Ankamius trying to lynch scum she thinks is scum.

pedit: alright.

[Chara]

do you have a read on tris?

VOTE: Brigitte

[Chara]

i'm concerned Ankamius's scum play is just good as i said was possible earlier, but knowing what her agenda actually was does give better context to my gut feeling of being frustrated with her obfuscation and wanting to understand her.

interested in skitter's thoughts on Ank in light of that for sure.

i'd put my townreads in Enter/skitter/u2/Ankamius, though none of them are with as high of a degree of confidence as i'd like. Enter might have the most from me, and possibly Ankamius. skitter would be up there too but the stated paranoia of me is sort of making that confidence stumble, even if it maybe shouldn't.
playing with little time is really hurting me here, i feel like a lot of my reads could be better if i just found good spots to put time into analyzing.
would be happy if the day didn't end without more from low-content slots, and more selfishly without me having an opportunity to dig in more.

i remember Enter talking about the resistance to the nmsa wagon: i understand that, but when the wagon has so little basis, besides from u2's meta read (and yes, that was meta), i think there's going to be pushback from town too. not every player plays with the want to push wagons they don't fully believe in through for information.

though i do like the idea.

pedit: shows how badly i've missed some things, i thought i was caught up but i didn't remember where you outlined your read on tris. and now that i say that i think you were the one who locktowned Reck and tris regarsing the fakehammer, and i do remember.

[Chara]

i'm actually mildly townreading Flubber here. it's not that strong but he does have strong opinions even if they aren't explained very much.
are you townread the rest of the list to some extent?

of the three there i think tictac is the one i think is most likely scum just by virtue of a lack of towntelling.

[Chara]

townread confidence is somewhere like:
Enter
Ankamius
skitter/u2

but skitter might be higher, i don't know. i'm happy with the Enter townread for sure. it's a start.

[Chara]

i feel like there's something wonky in your logic somewhere or that i'm missing something in this convo but i'm a little too tired rn to sort out what's bothering me exactly rn, so i think i'm just going to drop this specific line of inquiry until i figure it out

p-edit @ank

Not fully caught up but I wanted to get back to this

Remember how many times urap was scum reading nmsa but still tried to get wagons going elsewhere?

yeah, still townreading Flubber. this game has a lot of mislynch material he could go for, it feels like. if tictac flips scum i would look back to Flubber here but for the most part he seems to be doing his own thing and has a consistent logic based on his u2 read.

before this i just thought he was townier than not due to his attitude and a lack of what feels like positioning.

[Chara]

like, does scum Flubber decide to vote u2 here if it's not a partner chainsaw?
i don't think it's that likely. if tictac is scum it's a different story but we're not there yet.
i find all the fakehammers null and don't know if i care that much about it. Flubber isn't very verbose in general so the lack of explanation doesn't ping me in a particular way.

[Chara]

what's your read on Ankamius?

[Chara]

yes I'm mad

I'm positively fuming that you're acting like scum

discredits Flubber's word choice (being "mad" means "scumreading me because" in this context and Ank of course knows this) by trolling and doesn't engage with his argument at all.
i don't know if this is scummy, maybe i would be reading it as scummy in a vacuum but i feel like Ankamius is just like this. but i don't really like it.

Flubber: when you talked about people being frustrated with her playstyle, it sounded like you were one of them. but i find her playing close to her chest is only frustrating if she's concealing town thoughts, not scum thoughts.

[Chara]

(btw it speaks to a discrediting mindset rather than a scumreading mindset)

or it's an NAI posting style? some players post informally. considering you're one of them i'm surprised you're finding AI info in it.

[Chara]

variants of "mad about" "bothered by" "pinged by" are all often synonyms in a mafia context that say a lot more about the player than anything else.
i often say something "bothers me" when i find it scummy. it doesn't mean i'm actually bothered.

[Chara]

Honestly, I don't recall who is frustrated and who isn't. But the whole ordeal is reminiscent of how people used to describe my play years ago, and the only thing I was good at back then was pissing people off.

This is also why ank is one of my weaker scum reads and I haven't elaborated much on the read. I can't really articulate what I discern between bad play and scum play with them.

i thought the way you talked about her playstyle being frustrating might be indicative that you knew she was town here, but were still scumreading her.
i think this reply is fine, however.

pedit: but arguing against other bad language pragmatics is one of my favourite things to do! /s

[Chara]

i still think u2's turnaround there is more towny than not. and it's hard to tell if a random fakehammer amid another fakehammer is trolling or not when you don't actually comment on it.
so u2 bringing it up for discussion didn't strike me as bad.

i also don't think consistency is towny, anyway, but i might have accepted that Ank's thought processes are drastically different from mine.

pedit: hahaha. of course you'd say that after i've typed this.

[Chara]

thought process being the process used to reach reads, and reads being. well, reads.

[Chara]

so like it's not so much that i think town!you wouldn't interact with me this way, so much as i'm wary that scum!you would be (especially in a game without nks!)

and i guess just comparing to last game: i felt paranoid, yes, but i never felt pocket-y, or like you valued my reads in a general sense *that* strongly. like you were just scumreading reck and after i said i was townreading him and why, your read changed to match mine, which is kinda weird.

scum me would probably interact with you similarly. the problem is town me also would (and is) and you're nothing that and also noting your own paranoia.

last game was my second game with you. this is my third. last game i didn't have the evidence i have now that yes, you're great to work with and i want to do that, but trying to do so has you paranoid of me so i'm not sure why i bothered. and that's not on you but it is frustrating, because i simply don't think it's possible for you to have a good view of the game if i'm your only actual scumread. and for what reason? it's paranoia and you acknowledge it's paranoia.

your reasons for townreading Reck were good. mine were pretty gut based. i hadn't even properly looked at his reaction to the hammer until you pointed it out. when you did i went back and saw that yeah, his reaction was pretty good.

i don't have any good scumreads, really, so my other option is trying to work with townreads. it felt helpful last game but maybe that was because i didn't set out specifically to do that.

it's also possible i was just wrong on you, because it feels like you aren't listening to me at all. again, maybe it's my fault for trying too hard.

the last few pages look like fun. and by fun i mean not so fun.

pedit: @Ankamius: long drawn out debates are my kryptonite.

[Chara]

is RL the name of your SCUM PT!?!?!?!

Enter is town and i have very little patience for your trolling.
it's not towny, it's not cute, and frankly it isn't fun to play with. fun for you isn't fun for the thread. it's just fun for you.

[Chara]

that's sort of a problem i have with trolly players as a whole and not specifically you. i apologize for directing that at you like i did, given it was a post made from frustration with no real goal.

pedit: hi.

[Chara]

i don't like making posts for reasons like that.
do you have a read on me, Brigitte?

[Chara]

well you don't have to be coy about it. go ahead and push me, there's support.

[Chara]

still catching up. still liking Flubber, especially in 1123. i'll admit i don't have the best awareness of the full gamestate but Flubber doesn't feel like he has a lot of support or is really "in" a group, which i like for town more than scum.

[Chara]

I can't tell if your general frustration here is from your alignment or just the game state here. So I actually wanted you to vent to get an understanding for if I am making something out of nothing Chara.

then it's not going to happen, and i know you probably won't but please don't purposely try and get me use a mafia thread as a venting space.

every time i vomit emotions all over the thread i get townread. i don't want to do that anymore because it's exhausting, and defaulting to my fear of being mislynched and then using that to get townread is just not very respectable play.

i am frustrated with the gamestate because all of my townreads besides Flubber seem to be nullscumming me but not actually pushing me, or pushing each other.

pedit: i read the post Brigitte, give me a minute. i'm catching up while i talk to you.

[Chara]

1146: i really dislike nmsa's vote on Nimueh here. the timing seems opportunistic, he just sort of swoops in amid a threeway argument and votes the weakest player in it.

[Chara]

Okay. Gonna townread you now.

boooo.
why.

[Chara]

i'm not scumreading Nimueh at all. Enter keeps calling Nim's play crappy but it does suck to be pushed for said crappy play when you're sick and can't parse such a big game.
i don't know if i'm townreading Nim either but pushing a player who isn't even settled and is asking for help just isn't going to go anywhere in my opinion.

pedit: Nim didn't like being voted solely on activity. tris backed off because the vote was obviously about only Nim's activity. what's the problem.

[Chara]

Seemed like a pretty sincere post to me. Don't think you would be as likely to be posting as scum. And could see you are actually upset over the scumreads versus your alignment.

okay, i guess that's fine, thanks for the answer.

i'm interested in your reasons for Nim scum. i don't like Enter or nmsa's cases either, but a player being voted for a reason i don't like doesn't necessarily make them town, though it's easy to think that.

[Chara]

P.edit. What part of I’m feeling nauseous did you also not read? Yes, fair, when I don’t feel like constantly throwing up, I do play better. Good job.

Is English your second language?

Is it your tenth?

both of these posts are rather mean-spirited but i laughed audibly here and i wanted to say so. sorry.

[Chara]

But the real question you should be asking yourself is why are you so hellbent on playing this badly and why are you refusing to do anything other than wrongly call me scum?

I keep begging people to engage me, to help me get into this game and yes, you 100% should feel embarrassed about your awful play here because you aren’t even trying to examine any other slots but if I get mislynched, you will be forced to.

this is really hard to scumread. i don't think Nim's responses have been amazing but i can understand why they feel this way and it doesn't look at all like purposely dodging questions.

[Chara]

rn i townread: urap2-slot, reck, enter, and ank
do you disagree with any of those?

the main active poster rn that i'm not sure about is brig. i don't like the way she's interacting with people and i want to scumread her for it but i'm not sure if she's what she's doing is actually scummy so idk

also can you talk about your flubber read a bit more?

i don't know about Flubber, i've been asked about him a lot and answered every time. i can't think of what else to say on it beyond "he's towny".
why do you find him scummy, then?

i'm also not sure about brigitte. i don't hate the approach to me, though.

i don't disagree with any of your townreads. i did dislike how u2 responded to the Nim vs. Enter fight in a vacuum but i haven't looked at his play as a whole regarding that. but definitely agree on Enter. Ank and Reck are less strong.


i don't find it unlikely this is a lurker scumteam. remember coalition? i was freaking out about there having to be scum somewhere in the townreads and... no. none of the scum were really townread. and my paranoia had me wanting scum Gamma in the coalition.

[Chara]

a lot of flubber's posts are like bad in the sense that they make poor optics, but i'm not sure that's actually scummy; i do overall get the vibe that he actually believes in what he's saying tho

i do think there's a few things Flubber should be considering but isn't (regarding u2 for example) but the scum motivation isn't there for me.

[Chara]

there's almost too much conflict happening amongst the active posters for it to be entirely town-facilitated if that makes sense

perhaps i have an overly negative view of ms towns, but i'm pretty sure if you stuck a group of players in a game and gave all of them town PMs, they would rip each other's heads off.

[Chara]

i don't love the vote either. obviously i don't know you but i'm agreeing with Ank that you look more like town than scum and skitter's case on you just seems to be gut based about you seeming flat.
it just doesn't feel right. especially with both me and Ankamius giving reasons for you to be town that skitter doesn't seem to have engaged with.

[Chara]

@NMSA, You can read us as both scummy without linking us, you know.

That is what he has been saying...

i mean... yes. i don't get what your issue is, Nim. nmsa never said you're scum together because of a link, he just said he was reading you both as scum.

[Chara]

hello Creature and Xtoxm, nice to see you.

[Chara]

aw i wanted the tictac slot

why?

[Chara]

every time i played with him as town he felt like really really townie
he has the damp squib sorta feel that i associate with his scum game here
the meta is old tho so i wouldnt wanna go hard on it

i also townread him on entry in our last game, even if i lost that.
i can only say Elbirn is null right now, but that'd be because he's having trouble catching up.

pedit: are you voting Brigitte for the wagon, Xtoxm?

[Chara]

Ankamius: i don't think we have much of a history at all, but if your read has anything to do with "Chara is supposed to obvtown as town and it isn't", then that isn't my meta to begin with but rather an oft-repeated mantra i get all of the time.

[Chara]

those were both a while ago anyway. my scumgame is nowhere comparable to the mess it was in death note. or my towngame in Undertale, really.

i just don't like being told i'm supposed to obvtown in every game because it's tiring. if it's unrelated to that it's fine i guess.

Xtoxm: i don't know, i do want to see Elbirn do some things here so i can read him, though i'm not the best at it.

is my townread on Flubber that off base? it's a read i actually like. why is he scum besides "odd", Ank?

[Chara]

so i guess for me with chara if they're town i think it'll click eventually so i guess i'm kinda just waiting to see when/if that'll happen

if you have the time for it, i'd love if you read one of my very recent scumgames. it's okay if you don't like cold meta, though.

[Chara]

that Brigitte is the only player i'm really getting positive feedback here from... and i'm voting her.
no matter which thing it is i must be doing something wrong.

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
this might be dumb to do but i'm just going to make sure i'm not overlooking a bunch of things here and being less lazy.

pedit: i wonder if i should just treat Brigitte like Elsa.

[Chara]

don't be insulted. Elsa trolls and is hard to read because of it is basically the point. but i can sometimes

sort

of tell what he's going for so maybe i should be trying harder with you.

[Chara]

you could link it and if i have time i'll look at it, but no promises since things are kinda busy this week

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77288

most recent one if you want it. it's fine if you don't have the time/can't get anything out of it.
i think it's me doing something wrong here since it's multiple players, and i'm townreading them.

[Chara]

i think that Flubber's reads are rather controversial, that he's genuinely frustrated, and that even though his thought process isn't entirely transparent to me with his conclusions i'm still not seeing where the scum part is. weird isn't scum.

[Chara]

I apologize. I would feel much worse for asking to replace out and then saying "nevermind," than I would just replacing out.

the former of these doesn't make the mod have to find yet another replacement...
but if you're unhappy you're unhappy.

[Chara]

don't know where my townread on skitter went, but it isn't here anymore.

but i'm okay with this day being over, it's getting less fun. need to wait for replacements, though.

[Chara]

players i'm not really townreading: skitter, tris, Elbirn, Creature, nmsa
players i'm sort of townreading: Nimueh, Reck

everyone else is town for me.

[Chara]

actually maybe i wouldn't call Brigitte town. she'd be in a null category because i don't know what to do there.
Ank's stance i get because it seems in line with how she's been forming her reads, but the lack of reasoning i've seen from skitter about Brigitte scum is bothering me.
but i might've missed that reasoning somewhere, if so i would really appreciate a quote.

[Chara]

VOTE: tris
not done here though.

[Chara]

VOTE: Nimueh

Anything to say about someone other than NMSA (Or I guess tictac)?

VOTE: Nimueh

Anything to say about someone other than NMSA (Or I guess tictac)?

I’ve V/LA because I haven’t been feeling well, so no I’m not caught up yet but if this is your sole reason for for voting me, it isn’t a town one.

VOTE: Tris

Alright, fair enough.
UNVOTE:

logically i know why tris unvoted here. Nim called her out on voting her just for activity.
which, yes, it wasn't a good reason for a vote with Nim having a hard time to catch up, but it's been bothering me. i don't know tris as a player at all but if her approach is always this defanged i might be making something out of nothing.

there's 1045 where tris gives a neutral stance on Brigitte.
later, tris votes her but i don't see any real reason for it.
she asks two questions to Brigitte after that but it seems like the answers don't matter.

[Chara]

followup on the last post, i think it's possible tris is town who realized her reasoning was bad, or she's scum who decided to pivot after Nim called her scummy if her vote was just for Nim's activity. so scum tris decided it was better to just pull back.
Brigitte wagon however, that has a lot of support and Brigitte's been active.

[Chara]

you should join me on tris anyway. we have all these replacements in, the status quo doesn't need to be that.

[Chara]

i basically decided to sheep ank on brigitte (kinda exactly like how i just sheeped you on varsoon and stopped pushing him last time even though i didn't particularly agree)

even though Varsoon was scum and sheeping me was the wrong thing to do, as it turned out?

[Chara]

it's just sort of weird to me that you'd bring that up as a reason for you to be sheeping again when last time it didn't work out for you.

and that's different from me asking you to vote tris, since you do actually scumread her.

[Chara]

hm. alright. i can sort of agree with that.
1733 has this hindsight scumread on Brigitte that seemed like a setup rather than an actual look at her play.
what didn't you like about the case specifically?

pedit: i had a thought about you being scum together but i don't feel like skitter would softbus her partner on day 1. it looks really bad if scum you ever flips. so i find it unlikely it's both of you.

[Chara]

another thing for skitter: you've justified your paranoia about me with the lack of nightkills multiple times; scum Chara can't remove you by killing you.
but you also have mentioned a few times that you keep forgetting the game is nightless, regarding your townread on Ank that she would probably be nightkilled if town.

so it's a weird juxtaposition between remembering it's nightless every single time you mention your paranoia of me, but then what about your decision regarding Ank? are you stringly townreading her or are you townreading her with the caveat she would be removed if town?

and then something something tmi, i feel like skitter's one of the only players who even keeps bringing up the nightless thing.

[Chara]

if skitter legitimately is scum this game and I actually did catch her immediately, I'm going to lol

so am i being paranoid or do you think there's something here.

Elbirn: why is skitter town for you? it seems like my posts on this page answered your "why".

and i seem to remember someone directly asking for your thoughts about a specific interaction. i think that was skitter.

[Chara]

tbh this is kinda the vibe that i'm getting with you? ie that you think i'm not lynchable so you need to come up with some other way to deal with me (especially in a game that's nightless!), and so you've settled for trying to pocket and/or get me to townread you

so like it's not so much that i think town!you wouldn't interact with me this way, so much as i'm wary that scum!you would be (especially in a game without nks!)

i think it was only twice, actually. i'd remembered it as more times.

[Chara]

i really wish i could just say "yes skitter's town" because the reply did make sense. i also wish it had been the real-time interaction i was going for. but i wish a lot of things so whatever.

as for softbussing: i figured, that's why tris/skitter never really seemed like a team to me.

[Chara]

you don't think skitter downplays the strength of her reads this game and suggests you don't sheep her as scum?
to do otherwise would be inconsistent with her play this game. why don't you think scum her would?

[Chara]

i'd vote Brigitte if there really isn't anything else but i'm not happy about it. and i want to talk to Elbirn and see his thoughts because his slot is another that could be scum.

[Chara]

b) dinging me for doing the same thing i did in prey is ... quite odd tbh, and i'm having some trouble wrapping my head around why you think that's odd/of-note.

because it lead to a bad outcome in Prey. that you're just sheeping again without seeming to consider that is strange to me. and that you find it weird i picked up on it is even stranger.

[Chara]

c) i think that referring to me incorporating the currently nightless aspect of the game into my reads 'tmi' is ridiculous and borderline shading given that it's something that's in the mod's like third post of the game. of *course* that's going to influence how i approach the game, *especially* after jingle's game.

being paranoid of me for townreading you while you were being your town self is

ridiculous

.
and i know it'll influence you, i brought it up as a concern to talk about it, and this is the second time you've dislike me simply

having

a thought. the first was u2.

[Chara]

we have zero information, how can anyone has strong reads at this point
those things arent inconsistent with town

...i never said having reads that aren't strong is inconsistent with town?
i said that skitter's scumreads haven't been that strong all game, so saying anything otherwise to you wouldn't make sense for scum her to begin with.

[Chara]

i don't know how confident i am in this scumread or if it's a bad idea.

i got this idea in my head that skitter is both a holistic and logical player, but i can't figure out where her head's at anymore. she can't lack this much self-awareness, can she? she's stated she's waiting for a townread on me to click like it did last time, to see if it will, and couldn't explain why.
but that thought process and what i know of skitter doesn't fit with her reaction to my change in read on her at all. it was certainly prompted by her posting. and when i did post those things i was thinking that town skitter would think about my motivation in doing so. because when i did do i wondered, if i was wrong i'm just going to make my already bad position an even worse one. skitter is very townread.

and if i was wrong, i would expect town skitter to wonder why scum Chara would do that on purpose. the only reason would really be to protect Brigitte, the inevitable lynch. but skitter isn't taking the wagon on Brigitte into account, nor is she looking at the scum motivation of my case.

so yeah. i don't know what to do about it but i don't townread her. her initial reply did make sense but it doesn't change the bad feeling i get. and i really do hate this if she's town.

[Chara]

i mean that's how the game works ...?
like people judge each other for their thoughts; when yours don't seem townie to me i'm going to object

objecting is different from shutting me down. a lot of players do that but i didn't expect it from you, really. saying that bringing up the nightless thing is borderline shade, really?

[Chara]

i mean, yeah, you were wrong but the outcome was ultimately that we lynched implosion? it wasn't a bad outcome

and then lost the game to scum Varsoon after i was nightkilled, and then you were nightkilled.

[Chara]

skitter, your first two points are both "why are you scumreading me for this when i've done it before", and the fact that we've gone through it before is exactly why. i've gone through being paranoid of you before. you were town both times. i changed my approach to you accordingly.
you found this change scummy for some reason, but paranoia is paranoia so whatever.

i said i didn't like your sheeping, and you brought up our recent towngame as your defense of having done so before. except that time didn't work out, meaning we lost the game to the scum i convinced you to stop pushing. it just felt like you were justifying your actions with your own meta, but it didn't feel real because you supplemented what i consider a good explanation (lack of confidence in your scumreads) with one that felt more like an excuse.

[Chara]

i'd vote Brigitte if there really isn't anything else but i'm not happy about it. and i want to talk to Elbirn and see his thoughts because his slot is another that could be scum.

we're not going to get anything from him today

why? he made a vote on me and i want to poke at it. we have three days, i get that you want day to end but i don't get why you think Elbirn plans to drop off the face of the earth.

[Chara]

and for anyone who does care (because screw it, Ankamius likes talking about her own meta and i at least trust her here) i'm so far out of my scumrange right now i'm in space.

pedit: you noting this now doesn't help me, because you didn't bring it up until i did. your responses before didn't mention Brigitte nor my lack of scum motivation in doing this. some of that might be my fault in jumping the gun. i don't know.

[Chara]

if Brigitte does flip scum then skitter is really obviously not scum with her. but i probably don't need to say that. i also don't find tris/skitter partners very likely.

[Chara]

what are you thinking, Brigitte?

[Chara]

I don't have a scumread to push Chara. Don't ask me for thoughts.

there are other thoughts, though voting Elbirn certainly is one.
was curious about your thoughts on me/skitter/Ankamius from that last interaction.

[Chara]

why are you out of your scumrange?

i'm pretty good at getting townread as scum because i participate and don't do anti-town things. i also don't get scumread as scum for having bad takes/inconsistency/unsure reads like i tend to as town. the game is cleaner. but as a result the reads are much more one-dimensional and they don't have the layers my town reads do. to be fair i'm getting better at it, but i think the reason is playing town makes me anxious in a completely different way being scum does, and as scum i try and make sure that anxiety doesn't come through.


and that's mostly all i want to talk about self meta this game. thank you for asking this question, though.

pedit: i do think scum has more reason to try and fight the wagon here than town might. but scum could be accepting the inevitable too.

[Chara]

and now i don't know if scum skitter just pulls back on her convenient Ankamius-lead mislynch here.

VOTE: Elbirn

pedit: this is an odd, odd argument to be having. it's kind of funny.

[Chara]

Elbirn: what i'd really like to hear about is your read on skitter and vote on me.

[Chara]

Yo gameface off I thought about this game for about 2 seconds and went "Wait, it's cyberpunk bioshock. Why have I not already absorbed the entirety of this franchise into my heart", and then promptly bought the deluxe edition on PSN. Pretty solid use of $20. Still haven't played it!

i'll be honest i forgot to go do that, now that i've been reminded i may.... just spend today playing Prey. oops.

[Chara]

i like Elbirn too. he's nice. i don't find his posting here something i couldn't see scum doing but i do see that the vote on me was some sort of joke he didn't get around to talking about again.
and all the real-time interaction is nice.

[Chara]

Couldn't Brigitte have acted like she did to give the appearances that she doesn't care about getting lynched. If that's what she was trying to do, it seems to have worked,

so do you think that's what she was doing, or are you just pointing it out?

[Chara]

i thought i was voting tris.
what's she at?

[Chara]

VOTE: Brigitte
the more i think about it, the more i think this is a better lynch. skitter's argument for Brigitte's lack of survivalism/arguing against the townread is a sound one but i get the feeling that Brigitte considers the arguments she's made to be soundly NAI and would have made them regardless.

but her last three votes have all been PoE scumreads and pretty safe bets at the time she made them. i absolutely buy town being in that position but i think what i was townreading from Brigitte was NAI.

i don't find tris towny either and i probably will have to end up hammering that by the end of the day. (i think we have about a day left?)
but it's something for me to consider tomorrow at least. of the two i like this more. tris has this gut feeling recently of being strangely awkward which could be newbscum or could just be a newish sort of feeling. Brigitte i think is more aware of her own play.

pedit: already chose.

[Chara]

i didn't realize Brigitte wagon was this strong. i'd thought the Brigitte voters had mainly moved to tris.

[Chara]

i'm a townread now? that's nice.

[Chara]

what i liked from tris her is she's continued to ask others to form their conclusions about Brigitte as she's getting run up 2076 and the post after that in her ISO also rang more honest than not. not very compelling, but sort of towny in how blunt they are. and her reads have at least a few layere to them (like the skitter read) that feels organically dynamic.
it's not the best townread in the world but it trumps Brigitte and i came into the thread thinking i'd just vote tris and that would be it. didn't feel right.

[Chara]

I wrote in my notes that Chara is going to be convinced to vote me.
I am glad I can predict peoples behavior pretty well.

i wasn't convinced by anybody, it was my own decision.

[Chara]

what of the four things i brought up in that post aren't alignment indicative?
how is "feeling honest" not alignment indicative? that's what your townread on me was.

[Chara]

do you think your own positions this game have been weak, Brigitte?

[Chara]

hahaha.

2126: the reason i quoted it in the first place was to say i don't understand the point of bringing this up, except that it feels like an attempt to get me to reconsider.

[Chara]

what made you think i'd pick your wagon over tris?

[Chara]

Do you really want me to unload that? I think you will get upset by it and Id rather save it for you postgame.

can pretty much guarantee i won't be upset. say whatever bad thing about my play or personality you'd like to say.

pedit: good to hear.

[Chara]

hm, i think you're right about why i unvoted you initially.

but you're wrong about why i voted you again. the reason was what i said. i had no concept of who was voting where or how many players were on each wagon when i made the vote. and sheeping Ankamius, who went from having me in her scumlist to saying she wasn't fully sure about things, isn't something i'd want to do.

i asked because i was interested to see how much we'd played together in the past. i'm now more convinced you're not any of the players i thought you might be, because your idea of me isn't quite right. i can see how you came to the conclusion, however.

that you thought i'd be upset by that is another indicator, haha. but thanks for the in depth answer.

why didn't you argue against me unvoting you?

[Chara]

i wonder what you consider to be a good argument, Brigitte.

[Chara]

you have so many words on why my decision and skitter's decision to townread you earlier was bad... but you have a stock phrase against arguments for tris to be town when you don't really have a good reason for her to be scum.

though if you're town and this is your thought process i have to say it's a fascinating one.

pedit: oh hello, Succint!
...*forgets if the main is outed or not*

[Chara]

i've come around to town!chara i think

but why

[Chara]

nobody said it was scummy.
"not scummy = townie" is equally so.

[Chara]

But, I said honestly so it has to be honest.

So many posts!

why did you start fluffing when momentum shifted towards Brigitte?

[Chara]

that's not vca

what are you talking about Ank, mentioning wagons in any context constitutes VCA

also 2199 is very fake so Brigitte is trolling. i don't find it AI, still. i also feel that the issues she chooses to care about are not town ones, though they are honest to her as a person.

pedit: oh, hammer?

[Chara]

i actually don't know if the emotional thing was fake but i'd like to err on the side of caution and say i'm not sure either way.

pedit: okay yeah i'm just. very surprised that Succint making a comment about not townreading the tris wagon is what upset you here.

[Chara]

It's not vca in the traditional sense, Chara

It's still within the lens of the game itself, just using that specific source to get the raw information for it, if that makes sense

i know, my post was sarcasm if that wasn't clear.

[Chara]

I am fucking town. Ask me anything. Though I am more inclined to tell you all about how you all suck at the moment.

okay, why not say any of this before self-hammering? i'm curious.

[Chara]

I believe in this. Tris is very oh I'm at work people are judging me for being on my phone bye

the first two times i read this i really thought it was a description of tris's play instead of what was happening with you.
i'm... actually... not entirely sure it isn't.

[Chara]

this is still very silly. you really could have shared... i want to say all of this? before self-hammering.
if we're talking about poor reasoning here... you really had a chance to not be lynched. if you wanted out so badly, you replace. game rules say play to wincon.

i'm just saying think about it more next time.

[Chara]

huh that's one of the reads i'm reconsidering actually

i'm still pretty happy with Enter/Succint town.

[Chara]

i'll leave the thread for now since there's nothing much to be done before the lock, but no, self hammers are bad and considering skitter was arguing on your behalf and i was attempting to push tris for answers before you decided to self-hammer, it was a subpar decision and not something i like seeing players doing habitually, ever.

[Chara]

That doesn't even make sense.

hammering yourself as town is against wincon in most situations. that's all.

not interested in discussing it further in post. just think about it for the future is all.

my reads are basically the same as i've said them. tris's change in behaviour is notable to me but i'm not sure how much information can be gained from that.

[Chara]

and scum should be there:

Xtoxm u r a person 2
Chara
xRECKONERx
NotMySpamAccount
Flubbernugget
tris

why do you never townread me out of the gate, Creature? :<

[Chara]

Urap2 being obvtown and chara sitting around null-scum make no sense in the same game

are you referring to someone in particular or the game as a whole?

pedit: hi skitter.

[Chara]

Jingle's setup went open. Makes no sense to replicate it closed

it isn't replicated, obviously. there is no night here at all, there scum were suiciding overnight

but the ambiguous wincon coupled with lack of nks remind me of that game tho

it's an interesting idea if nothing else. but just for speculation. much like Jingle's game, ultimately lynching scum is probably the goal.

[Chara]

i don't know if u2 was actually obvtown.
i mean, sure... was towny with the turnaround on nmsa. that's about it. the slot is probably town but i don't know why you say obvtown. remind me?

[Chara]

right, it was the conversation between u2 and Enter that also made me put a townread there.

[Chara]

i'm not interested in wagoning u2 right now, but there's definitely scum utility here

if

Reck ends up town. there's much less if this is a bus, because the towncred scum u2 gains from helping you is a lot less valuable than where i think this push will go.

pedit: it makes sense from town u2 too, but the way he's saying outright that he wants to help you and figure you out here pinged me. as i said if it's a buddy attempt it's pretty blatant so i don't know how likely i find that.

around here i talked about my bad feelings with u2. i remember that i eventually decided his turnaround on wmsa was towny.

i'm rereading the posts around this part.

[Chara]

Do you think that reads shift was manufactured the way it was on purpose?

i did at the time. i never really stopped considering it either. i've had major bad feelings about u2 since the game started, but for a few reasons decided my gut was probably wrong. i think in a large part that was because i was townreading skitter, and she pushed against my suspicions.
i don't know if it means anything or not but it's relevant to reading skitter now, i think.

pedit: when would it have happened if it had been a bus?

[Chara]

i'm rereading the whole nmsa wagon buildup right now, skitter, so i'll get back to you with that.

[Chara]

that's okay, i'm going to be swamped with work for the next three days. will do what i can, though.

[Chara]

Nim is a townlean now.

still working too much. back to normal on Monday.

[Chara]

my focus this game is to find the clearest path to a town win

lynching you early almost never achieves that regardless of your alignment, regardless of my actual read on you

I have gone on record dozens and dozens of times saying that scumlynches are useless and at worst actually

anti-town

to get in a lot of situations, and that opinion is one I will defend to the death

my focus is to put town in the best possible spot in a situation where I am not here to lead

, that means catching as many scum as possible and putting town in a position where it's inevitable they will be lynched

does that help

hi, i'm back from the weekend from hell.
i have to say on a meta level i really like the mindset behind this post. it's a level i don't attempt, because i don't think i have the mind for it. but something something day one scum lynches are anti-town, something.

i'm reading up, anything interesting i should know about?

[Chara]

The vote precedes two points on brigette being NAI and a setup to still get tris lynched if that were to become convenient. I think this is a perfect illustration of what I was trying to get at when I said chara's posting looks good in a vacuum. This vote really didn't bring any suspicion to chara at all, but it really should have.

isn't this the exact opposite of my posting being good in a vacuum? you're looking at one post here, not the gamestate.

considering one of tris or Brigitte seemed inevitable at that point in the game, why does scum me need to setup on anybody?

[Chara]

This I’m not apologizing for, because you actually deserve it.

has Ankamius been insulting you somewhere? because if you're just mad about the read on you this is really uncalled for.

[Chara]

Like, from which post will I catch all the way up here?

ISO Ankamius and see where that gets you?
she's town and while i haven't looked at how much i like her solve yet, her ISO does have a pretty complete summary of the gamestate as the game has gone on.

[Chara]

okay, so you are just mad about the read. your scumteam is almost identical to hers if you just take yourself out, so you obviously agree with the rest of her reads.
she was wrong on me most of the game, too. oh well. being angry about it does literally nothing.

[Chara]

i don't think Creature is scum here. if there's a good argument i'll listen, but being underwhelming on a replace in a big game isn't a scumtell. i can see his thought process well enough, and i've played with Creature enough that at this point i think i can tell how he's feeling about a game.

[Chara]

hi Elbirn, i miss you. let's talk about the game whenever you're back.

regarding Flubber: i need to see why scum him would think i'm a good target to go after. he avoided me when i was being scumread, but now that i'm townread he wants pressure on me again?

[Chara]

i think there are slots outside of those five i'd lynch before Creature. Nim i need to look at your case for, because there are very few players i'm willing to think will lean this far into the emotional side of things as scum, though they do exist.
Flubber i could see, Xtoxm i could see. skitter i don't know. i probably will continue to not know without talking to her again/another flip or so.

[Chara]

I’m tilted because I have been putting a lot of effort into trying to solve this game and to know I have been basically wasting my time, just waiting until God knows when, I get mislynched, was just not cool with me. I’m sorry if you think I’m overreacting but I consider Ank someone who should be able to read me, so maybe what you’re not getting is it’s a bit hard not to take this personally since I’m pretty sure Reck is wrong and she’s also town here.

i do get it. it's frustrating. there are a lot of players that i think should be able to read me by now and when they don't it's very disheartening. it's also bittersweet to hear "you're good at scum, so i can't townread you."
but Ank is obviously not doing it on purpose, she's solving with what she has, so there's no need to insult her. obviously this whole conversation only applies if you're town (which i lean towards).

you're not wasting your time. i just don't like to see players insulting each other or being hurt because of misreads.

[Chara]

Tris wagon came after brigette wagon right? Not intrested in looking for scum there.

Votecount 1.14

tris(5)

~ skitter30(221), Brigitte(240), Elbirn(217), Creature(36), Flubbernugget(78)

Brigitte(4)

~ Ankamius(304), tris(119), xRECKONERx(124), Xtoxm(255)

skitter30(1)

~ Nimueh(192)

Nimueh(1)

~ NotMySpamAccount(79)

Elbirn(1)

~ Chara(137)

Ankamius(1)

~ Succinct(55)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-08 00:58:59).

Mod Notes:

skitter30 is V/LA on weekends.
Nimueh is V/LA while sick.

Around here-ish is when I feel the lynch was locked into tris/brigette. Maybe I'm wrong on tris, then.

This makes chara and succinct the main points of interest on the brigette wagon

how likely do you think it is that both wagons were on town?
from your post about me i would guess you think they both are.
at that point, what AI information are you getting from the wagons, when scum would be happy to sit on either?

[Chara]

Nim, you being flipped town doesn't help anything. at all, really. it would just be a way for you to get out of the game, just like Brigitte did. i'm interested in solving, not flipping players who want to be flipped. the fact that you want out makes you even less likely to be scum to me. proving you as town doesn't affect Ank's solve very much, so there's just no point in doing it.
if you want to leave this game, replace out. that's how it works. wanting to be lynched when you're town doesn't help anyone.
or, keep playing and keep pushing your reads even if you're being scumread. that's also part of being town.

[Chara]

good question. 2336 and followup are really weird posts because it's saying that u2 and i need to be the same alignment because we have superficially similar posting styles?

[Chara]

it's such a weird read, the more i think about it, really. i don't think u2 and i have played this game in a similar way at all, and the only similarity was that we both happen to be chatty. it's a strange categorization and criticism of skitter's reads in a way that doesn't feel like anything beyond surface level.

[Chara]

i don't really see that. if Ank couldn't be convinced off of you, she wouldn't have contingency scumreads based on you not being scum, nor would she say things like "if Flubber flips town then i need to rethink this game".

[Chara]

would you mind quoting your Nim case? i'd look but your ISO is fairly long and i don't have time to do a blanket read of the game.

[Chara]

I need to reread the game but

Skitter is still town
NMSA is town (sorry, mate)
Enter is town
Ank is town

All three of these reactions come from town

Spoiler:

show me urap2

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

uh ... do tell

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

You're going to have to say more than this.

VOTE: ank[/v]

I'm willing to wait a bit for lurkers to get replaced, though, otherwise I'm down with LaL. I think both of them have probably been prodded and they're both well past the replace time.

VOTE: ank

Reads list please.

i think it's really premature for u2 at this point to have said these extremely simple reactions to his post "come from town". there's again that lack of critical thinking i disliked earlier.
it feels fabricated. his push on NMSA the whole day was based on his idea of where nmsa would take his meta, and his turnaround was again based on an idea rather than nmsa's actual posting.

his read on me: (if anyone is tired of me bringing this up wrt reading players, oh well. :>) it's had a very arbitrary direction. i started out as a scumread, became a gut townread in spite of changing nothing about my play at the time (i was still playing disinterestedly), and then he mentions my posting regarding his turnaround on nmsa looks like deflated scum. he doesn't really followup on that at all, though i replied to it, and later says he isn't interested in voting me, though he isn't townreading me.

the behaviour around Enter still looks like pocketing to me.

regarding the read on Brigitte: it looks to me like a pretty NAI thing, though at first glance i sort of want to townread it. it's probably done the most to shake me on this reread scumread. neither of them are in the game anymore so i can't poke this, and i really wouldn't want to, anyway. i'll call it NAI.

2142 from Xtoxm: he's said he wants a wagon and is fine with going after anyone who isn't a TR. that's fine, but he's voting Brigitte while distancing himself from saying the wagon will actually flip scum. it's a pretty easy way to avoid responsibility for that.
after Brig's flip he goes immediately to tris with very little thinking on the subject.

and i don't like how instead of using the time in between voting one of the wagons that could get a lynch, he was disinterested in discussing really anything. our conversation about skitter's reply to his entrance fizzled out, and he didn't want to pursue trying to read Elbirn in spite of mentioning this could be his scumgame (though he admitted the meta was very cold.)
and then his next post is voting Elbirn. directly after my Elbirn vote and him getting some mild heat from Creature and skitter.

there's so much disinterest in the outcome of the game. i think i like the tris vote the least, though.

[Chara]

i think i like an Xtoxm lynch a lot more than a Flubber one. the nmsa thing is notable, but as skitter pointed out it changed direction

after

nmsa's wagon had cooled down. u2 shopped around for a different lynch after that.

he's a few times now made posts to the effect of trying to understand other players, but it seems more like lip service to me than anything else. and Xtoxm's contributions upon replacing in have been nil. for someone who wants to lynch anyone besides his townreads, i don't think he did very much to actually make those townreads to use.

[Chara]

VOTE: succinct for now. I need to reread chara wrt the brig wagon

why did you vote Succinct here, Flubber?

[Chara]

Does xtoxm give you more info or do you think he's scummier

I'm more worried about the former

i haven't gotten that far yet. right now i would say there have been more interesting reads given on u2 (skitter as an example) so i think his flip is telling.
but i need to do my own looking at how both of them relate to the gamestate. Flubber's been a nullscum read for a good amount of players this hame, iirc.

[Chara]

that's fine, i agree about them having a good likelihood of being partners. Flubber's u2 push came at a time u2 was not going to be lynched, he was being strongly townread by a lot of the game.
and he used it to pivot onto me, seemingly ignoring Xtoxm's Brigitte vote entirely. i also don't know why he was townreading Brigitte.
i townread his pushes being controversial but after the ISO i wondered if they were just in place so he could push a slot that wouldn't actually be lynched.

[Chara]

Xtoxm and tris are probably not scum together, but i could see tris/Flubber. i'm not townreading her, really.
but i wouldn't flip tris before either of them. it's more that there isn't much i want to townread her for besides some minor stuff relating to the Brigitte wagon.

[Chara]

i can go look now. i admittedly wrote Enter off as town at some point and haven't reassessed.

[Chara]

i get very little from Succinct. i'd call that part of the slot's contribution to be very null to me.

i think more elaboration from them about why tris is towny would be really helpful.

[Chara]

still have a really hard time mustering a scumread on Enter, which makes me want to say he's town here. i'm comfortable enough with that in the absence of a scumcase on Enter or Succinct. i could towncase him but i'll only put in the energy to do that if it's really necessary. i think all of his stances make a lot of sense given his mafia philosophy and every bit of his progression is available for perusal. perhaps the worst thing i can say about his ISO is the lack of reassessment on some things. i also don't see him as scum with u2/Xtoxm at all, so if that flips scum i might as well locktown Enter/Succinct.

[Chara]

@succinct: Flubber pings me as town bc of the votehops. they don't seem calculated, they seem to be occurring to flubber as he plays. idk if he could fake that as scum.

@nim: what's your read on me?

is Flubber very calculating as scum?

[Chara]

dont know because meta is garbage

then i don't know if that's a great reason to townread Flubber, since playing the game by ear and vote hopping as he feels he wants to is something scum can do fairly easily in a general sense.

[Chara]

disappointed with that replace-out too.

if you have a secret alt and you're blacklisted by somebody, tell them your secret alt. then you don't end up having them join games you're in and it doesn't become an issue.
that's all i'll say about it. oh, and skitter's town, obviously. as much as i hate to say that for this reason.

[Chara]

two VT flips don't equal mountainous. nightless mountainous is also unlikely unless the scumteam is large.