Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[u r a person 2]

...but there is no night

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

[u r a person 2]

Okay, cap'n.

I'll stare into the sun until it goes down =/

[u r a person 2]

I'm trying to watch my figure

Can you do chicken fried steak?

Maybe a side salad with a citrus dressing? I don't need to get scurvy before being murdered.

[u r a person 2]

Chicken fried steak it is!
Sounds delicious.

*cooks up some chicken*

Uh, no it's act- Smells delicious. Appreciate ya.

Fun shtick. =) Have we played together?

[u r a person 2]

Probably. Whats your story?

This is my main, so.. I guess that's a no. =P

[u r a person 2]

omg reminds me of home. Well, the Denny's near my home, anyway ;P

Thank you, and nice to meet you

[u r a person 2]

Can I suggest NMSA for that wagon? I expect you'll find that more productive, anyhow.

[u r a person 2]

still staring at the sun. it's still there =/

[u r a person 2]

Why and who is that?

Notmyspamaccount. I'm not looking to set the table for him, but I've played with scum!nmsa in newbie 1915 and town!nmsa in... i think 1917?, and I think he is an ideal choice.

[u r a person 2]

I also realize NMSA isn't here right this second, but I also don't expect this game to get very far before he checks in.

[u r a person 2]

urap2 might be town.

@urap: do you think you can diffrentiate nmsa's towngame from his scumgame? ie were you able to read him correctly in 1917?

I wavered on him for a hot minute in the middle of the game, but I read him correctly and confidently early, and I plan on correctly reading him here.

[u r a person 2]

yay skitter is probably town because of this interaction

[u r a person 2]

i can't see the sun anymore but I think that might be because I've lost my retinas

[u r a person 2]

ok and i disagree, i think 31 is manipulative and that the transition from there to iirc 34 is quite bad

So far what I see Enter is trying to push for a wagons in RVS to get reactions. Those posts are in total alignment with that goal and mindset. So I don't see how it is manipulative unless he is using it to get himself to be townread for pushing the game forward in some nefarious way.

I can actually pretty much see where Enter's brain is going even if I don't agree with most of it.

ding ding ding

[u r a person 2]

Can I suggest NMSA for that wagon? I expect you'll find that more productive, anyhow.

I've been reading through and honestly this is different from the other games I've played with you so since noone else has done much AI, VOTE: urap2

yikes

[u r a person 2]

Why and who is that?

Notmyspamaccount. I'm not looking to set the table for him, but I've played with scum!nmsa in newbie 1915 and town!nmsa in... i think 1917?, and I think he is an ideal choice.

I'm really not ideal. I've played this identically to 1917 so far, where I was town. Same thing here.

You had zero posts here when I made this post.

Are you arguing that at the start of 1917 you also had zero posts before you posted?

[u r a person 2]

...

ok.

so just to summarize

enter: *does a really scummy thing by changing his mind on a read out of nowhere*
people: *vote enter for doing the scummy thing*
enter: but aha you see it is i who is a genius because i

meant

to be scummy

cool okay hey everyone you can ignore the last six pages this is everything right here ^^^

good summary

but is it scummy?

because I'm kind of leaning no at this point

[u r a person 2]

These two have been spamming all game. I'm calling my shot now, this is the scumteam. Come join me on the urap wagon, game is already solved.

last game, as town, you couldn't even find a read for like half of D1, lol. What changed?

I so don't buy this confidence as coming from town!you

[u r a person 2]

well let's see

either enter is town who purposefully acted scummy to try to get a wagon on themselves
or enter is scum who acted scummy and got caught and is now twisting it to be some (really bad) genius master plan all along

scenario b seems far more likely and even if it's scenario a im pretty comfortable with my vote where it is

he was presenting as wanting to make content before anyone scum read him for it

[u r a person 2]

Surprise, I'm changing up my style to find one I like.

How would you describe your new style?

[u r a person 2]

Also leaning town on skitter.

why?

[u r a person 2]

This is scum NMSA.

Go read his first like 5 posts in 1915 and 1917 and I think it will be pretty clear to anyone here.

[u r a person 2]

This isn't someone with a year's worth of games thinking about their meta. They're still finding their play style, and this is an obvious evolution of their scum game, but a serious stretch from their town game.

[u r a person 2]

It would be easier and more compelling for people to just go read like 10 posts but

In 1915 NMSA came in with an act. They played up the whole newbie thing (they have some outside experience), going so far as to claim VT in their first post saying "It's okay to say this, right?"

In 1917 they were town and they had a far less awkward, far breezier tone. There was zero posturing. Even under pressure and a decent way into the game they stood firm on not having any reads.

Here we once again have an act. It reads just as false as 1915, just with a different shtick. It's scum nmsa

[u r a person 2]

a) he was town in previous games
b) fair point, but in 1917 iirc he started off with content fairly early.

There is no way that this isn't manufactured. I replaced into 1917 at page 8

[u r a person 2]

Where is the link for 1917? I don't see it in the mini theme list?

These were newbies

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78626 1915

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78734 1917

[u r a person 2]

Also, before I forget, VOTE: Brigitte

If you were scum reading us for our interactions early, and you no longer scum read me, why are you still scum reading Brigitte?

[u r a person 2]

Boy, I have a lot of good points

[u r a person 2]

There seems to be pretty big differences in play from both of you so far from 1917.
I don't know what to make of it.

not really. In all three games I catch scum pretty early on and then push it to a lynch ;P

[u r a person 2]

*two

you just wait, boyo

[u r a person 2]

I love your bravado

I think my 5-4 town record with all five wins coming in newbie games warrants it =P

[u r a person 2]

I love your bravado

I think my 5-4 town record with all five wins coming in newbie games warrants it =P

If it wasn't clear, this was an attempt at humility~

[u r a person 2]

Reck, Enter - Thoughts on NMSA?

You've both given a fair amount of content on one another, but unless I'm forgetting something, neither of you has given a read on him.

There are 5 people on the wagon, and two more scum read him. Where ya'll at on this?

[u r a person 2]

NotMySpamAccount (5): u r a person 2 5, tris 62, tictac 67, Brigitte 144, Enter 207

I'm town reading everyone on this wagon to some extent except enter.

I'm a little surprised that no one has been willing to bring this to l-1. I see both town and scum motivations for voicing support for the wagon without getting on. I would not be surprised in the slightest if there is scum in that group.

[u r a person 2]

I have no other scum reads to share atm.

[u r a person 2]

Ya? Anything in particular you want to know?

[u r a person 2]

Sorry, that's a round about way of asking you if there was any point to making post 302

[u r a person 2]

I do like what's happening with NMSA, and with so many believable reasons to push people right now, I think there's probably scum on his wagon and/or nor voting

This one?

I think it's vacuous. It seems to say something, but really says nothing at all. Much of the game was either on his wagon or not voting, and you don't actually rule out the possibility of scum voting elsewhere entirely, so I take the entire post to mean "There is probably scum in this game."

And we agree, there =/

If it was a different post you wanted a response to, lemme know~

[u r a person 2]

Skitter, it's not a strong town read on tic tac, but these are the posts that imply game solving, and inform my read.

Spoiler: Tictac posts that read townie to me

It's not cool to vote my townreads on bad reasoning!

pretty sure ya were voting a town read at this time
Am I correct?

Can I suggest NMSA for that wagon? I expect you'll find that more productive, anyhow.

I've been reading through and honestly this is different from the other games I've played with you so since noone else has done much AI, VOTE: urap2

feeling good about my vote

i mean i read it again and i can see the narrative that you're pushing (ie that he wanted to form wagons and when you weren't interested in reck he switched to pushing who you were pushing) but i don't feel like it explains everything, namely his random read change on reck

What was random about it?

the fact that reck didn't post anything in between so i don't know why he suddenly changed his mind from 'reck has no ai content' to 'nm reck's changing vote like that is townie'

I thought it was a change from casual read into looking at things more closely when prompted.
Gave him a townpoint for it.

@Enter At no point was my read on NMSA a joke, or rvs read. I came into this game fairly confident that I could read NMSA off of his opening posts, and I believe I have done so.

[u r a person 2]

@Enter What were you going to ask me earlier? I'm talking about the thing that came out wrong or w/e

[u r a person 2]

Anyone have any questions they want to ask me?

Are you still town reading enter?

[u r a person 2]

I highly doubt you will actually be lynched at this point. Very rarely have I seen a highly active game (which I very much intend for this to be) result in the Lynch of a player who got bandwagons coming out of RVS

I don't understand. You think he's scum, but you don't think he will be the lynch.

Do you want today's lynch to be NMSA?

[u r a person 2]

@Enter What were you going to ask me earlier? I'm talking about the thing that came out wrong or w/e

I mean to say I think the majority of scum is probably on NMSA wagon/not voting at the time of that post. You said you think it's mostly town except me. What I mean to ask is what do you think of the other wagons/votes in that case?

I'm not discounting the possibility that there is scum on NMSA's wagon. I'm inclined to think that scum is you, but I'm not solid enough on my read of TicTac or Triss to discount them as possibilities.

I think it's just as likely that scum ignores the wagon as long as possible hoping it will die out, or is in the pool of players that has expressed a scum read on NMSA but has failed to vote (though not skitter. Skitter is a town read).

Basically, scum is somewhere in this game and I don't have enough information to start piecing together where they're at. I do think the fact that 8 players are scum reading NMSA probably means I'm right about him being scum.

[u r a person 2]

@Enter At no point was my read on NMSA a joke, or rvs read. I came into this game fairly confident that I could read NMSA off of his opening posts, and I believe I have done so.

This just makes it worse for me, IMO

Why?

[u r a person 2]

I want NMSA to be lynched today, I don't think he will be lynched right now. Based on experience the wagon on him will dismantle before reforming again if he will be lynched, though. Very very rarely do I see a wagon coming out of RVS resulting in a Lynch.

That's fine. I'm happy with the day continuing.

We are lynching scum!nmsa today, though.

[u r a person 2]

I've seen nothing to change my mind there.

What are you basing the read on?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: NMSA
seems constructive

@urap2 idk why but this vote feels scummy
if nmsa is town it's bandwagon-y
and if he's scum it basically feels like scum trying to get on the wagon for the towncred
and none of the posts you pulled feel particularly ai to me

I hear what you're saying.

But it comes after I have asked for an RVS wagon on NMSA

and before NMSA actually posts

So I don't think that scum motivation really holds weight with me.

I think the posts show a solving thought process, but this isn't the cross I'm dying on.

[u r a person 2]

I do think the fact that 8 players are scum reading NMSA probably means I'm right about him being scum.

actually this starts to make me worry that he may be lynch bait tbh, the complete, mass agreement on scum!nsa

the gamestate is explained either by scum deciding to just hard bus or riding an easy mislynch
figuring out which is it is tho is the tricky part, of course

have you had a scumgame since i asked you in the newbie?

Yeah I have a completed scum game

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78683

[u r a person 2]

the gamestate is explained either by scum deciding to just hard bus or riding an easy mislynch
figuring out which is it is tho is the tricky part, of course

I understand the dichotomy, but I have a strong scum!read on NMSA, and that goes into my read on the situation as a whole, you know?

[u r a person 2]

Because it looks more like you're bussing on preexisting knowledge and a lack of faith in his ability.

See, I feel like you're already playing towards the D2 mislynch right here

[u r a person 2]

cold meta is cold meta but you *might* (????) be out of your range?

I mean, the game ended like a week or so ago, so not really cold meta

But it is one game, so it's not enough data for a meta read anyway, imo

[u r a person 2]

Because it looks more like you're bussing on preexisting knowledge and a lack of faith in his ability.

i mean idk do scum really start the game bussing their partner before they even have a chance to post? i'm not sure i've *ever* seen that happen tbh

Just to set the record straight, I didn't push NMSA as a read until after he posted. I called him an ideal candidate for an rvs wagon because I think he is likely to respond to early pressure poorly as scum, but likely to respond to early pressure well as town (see newbie 1917)

[u r a person 2]

well, i wasn't in it; that's what i meant by cold

ahh, that makes a lot more sense

[u r a person 2]

huh, i'm noticing the lack of mentioning 'daytalk' in the op

My instinct tells me that if there is no day talk, bussing becomes more likely.

[u r a person 2]

@Enter At no point was my read on NMSA a joke, or rvs read. I came into this game fairly confident that I could read NMSA off of his opening posts, and I believe I have done so.

This just makes it worse for me, IMO

I really don't like this. You said that you thought my push looked like a bus because I started it as a joke push - though there was nothing in my iso to suggest I was ever not serious.

Then when I say that I was serious, that's worse because it's a TMI read.

But you're very clearly scum reading NMSA. He doesn't have that many posts, so you're scum reading him for the same posts I am. What would cause you to think it's a TMI read?

I think you've decided that I need to be a scum read, and are simply looking for reasons to back it up.

[u r a person 2]

It would be easier and more compelling for people to just go read like 10 posts but

In 1915 NMSA came in with an act. They played up the whole newbie thing (they have some outside experience), going so far as to claim VT in their first post saying "It's okay to say this, right?"

In 1917 they were town and they had a far less awkward, far breezier tone. There was zero posturing. Even under pressure and a decent way into the game they stood firm on not having any reads.

Here we once again have an act. It reads just as false as 1915, just with a different shtick. It's scum nmsa

after reading this i decided to read nmsa because his ISO isn't very long.
i still don't like this argument because you really are just... metaing him off of one towngame and one scumgame and saying it looks closer to the scumgame. that's just not good meta.

This is not a good representation of my read. It's not that it's "closer to the scumgame" it's that it makes complete sense as an evolution of his scum game, and no sense as an evolution of his town game. And since I've played with him in both of his games on site, and correctly read him in both of his games on site, I think it's reasonable for me to make this argument.

You've mentioned that you are reading NMSA as town because you're reading me as scum for a lack of critical thinking. What is your read on NMSA based on NMSA alone?

[u r a person 2]

I highly doubt you will actually be lynched at this point. Very rarely have I seen a highly active game (which I very much intend for this to be) result in the Lynch of a player who got bandwagons coming out of RVS

I don't understand. You think he's scum, but you don't think he will be the lynch.

Do you want today's lynch to be NMSA?

Yes. I do.

I want NMSA to be lynched today, I don't think he will be lynched right now. Based on experience the wagon on him will dismantle before reforming again if he will be lynched, though. Very very rarely do I see a wagon coming out of RVS resulting in a Lynch.

Ugh. Sorry for yesterday, I was really out of my element. Let's fix this, starting here:

1. I love wagons. I love wagons made for good reason, I love wagons made for bad reason, I love wagons made for seemingly no reason whatsoever. I like to see who's willing to get on and push, who's resistant, and why. So of course I'm going to push to see who's willing to get on and who's not, offering whatever reason I can to be on it. After my push to see if we could get one more vote on NMSA yesterday I didn't get much positive response, just a bit of resistance, so for that reason, I think my time here is done. I'm going to save these:

Wow, didn't see this transition coming. /s

If/when nmsa flips scum, you're a partner. This is simply transparent.

[u r a person 2]

Enter jumped on when he thought nmsa was flying towards an early departure, and he's walking it back now that he thinks maybe it's not inevitable.

and pushing me, but voting for chara. =/ to encourage her to post? Why aren't you voting me to get the reads list you supposedly want?

This is not town play.

[u r a person 2]

reck probably town if enter flips red based on early push, but i'm sure there have been crazier svs plays

[u r a person 2]

After my push to see if we could get one more vote on NMSA yesterday I didn't get much positive response, just a bit of resistance, so for that reason, I think my time here is done.

You didn't make a push to get anyone to vote nmsa. All day yesterday you were shading the wagon, my push on the wagon, and the ability of the wagon to go through.

The last post where you even sound like you're scum reading nmsa is from sunday, and only came as result of my directly asking you for it. everything else is just posturing

[u r a person 2]

I pushed a lot of people to vote NMSA. Ignoring facts doesn't make them go away. Vote me if you wanna call me scum and quit making up reasons.

could you quote these instances?

[u r a person 2]

How is saying that "it wouldn't surprise me if we've got some hard bussers that don't trust a buddy in this one" anything but throwing shade on the wagon and people voting there?

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

[u r a person 2]

I don't care about the snarkiness

And I'm not saying it's bad to question whether or not a wagon is a bus

But you can't sit here and seriously say that making that insinuation in pushing people to vote there. If being on the wagon is already being shaded, how is that an incentive for people of either alignment to vote there? It's certainly not an incentive for scum to vote there - town cred is the only reason to bus. It's the point of bussing.

[u r a person 2]

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

I'm not sure what you're asking for here.

You're saying that in your experience, saying a wagon fall apart makes people vote there. I'm asking you to back this up, because I think you're making it up.

[u r a person 2]

You're telling me that you've never played a mafia game where you've said "we're not lynching this" and someone puts a vote on them and says "bet." Or something similar

I think the closest I've come to is me + NMSA in this game. I don't think I've ever credited the person saying "we're not lynching this" with pushing the wagon.

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right.

You're presenting your entire time on the NMSA wagon as a big reaction test to see who would join the wagon. Were your comments designed to get town to vote or scum to vote?

[u r a person 2]

Hey, apologies. That's how your big post read to me. Not all a reaction test, got it.

So, then, what is your actual, honest-to-god read on NMSA right now?

[u r a person 2]

My most confident scum read is nmsa. There is no reason for me to unvote. It's counter to my win-con to unvote. You're not going to goad me into unvoting.

[u r a person 2]

I'd like to take you up on that conversation after the game, if you're serious =)

[u r a person 2]

Gonna come back to this exchange later with a clear head, but I could see this being a play style clash I guess

[u r a person 2]

Alright. This doesn't change

anything

about NMSA, but let's try something new.

VOTE: chara

Your read on me is bad, and I don't like how you undercut it by talking about how you've misread me in the past. You also seemed more engaged in Starcraft:2 - giving enter a town read without reading the majority of his posts does not jive with the feeling I got from you there.

Would you please talk to me about your enter read, or any other read you're feeling good about?

[u r a person 2]

Skitter, what's your WIM level this game? Is there anyone in this list you'd really like to impress? You don't have to tell me who.

[u r a person 2]

Want It More, so how hungry one is to win the game

[u r a person 2]

I appreciate the long answer. I know from you and conversations with not you that you can do the whole real time interaction bit as scum, but that you don't like to and I was wondering if you had a reason to really want this win

i think you're town af tho

[u r a person 2]

I spoke with TW about your game while we were both /in'd to this. He thinks highly of you =)

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: reck

[u r a person 2]

I don't see why tictac would look like he's busing. He's in basically the same situation as me as relates to that wagon. We both voted for nmsa before he started posting, and stayed because we thought he looked scummy when he did. What in particular about tictac looks like it could be a bus?

This is basically my position on tictac atm

[u r a person 2]

Chara, do you have any scum reads? I noticed your vote is on Skitter, but you said that you're not going to be able to try and sort her until later

[u r a person 2]

@enter I'm with you voting on Reck, and I'm eager to see and support this play style of yours. Why did we move off of chara?

[u r a person 2]

why did you move off of me?

Trying something new both for my own personal benefit and to help me better understand Enter

[u r a person 2]

why did you move off of me?

Trying something new both for my own personal benefit and to help me better understand Enter

This is also the answer to why I moved

on to

you

[u r a person 2]

this sort of makes me wonder if this is an Enter pocket attempt. though if so it'd be rather blatant and possibly not effective.

so you're still scumreading me, if i read between the lines?
Enter voted me for pressure, you voted me because you thought i did scummy things. now you're unvoting and you appear to be following Enter in that new direction, but your original vote on me was your own idea and not because of Enter?

My vote on you was because I wanted to follow enter. When he voted you, you said something to the effect of "you have to scum read me if you want me to answer questions" so I scum read you, and you answered the questions ;P Nothing I said was untrue, but my read on you is pretty null. I didn't understand why you town read nmsa (not sure if you addressed this later, i haven't read past this post yet) but I thought your thought process felt pretty genuine in your last posts. I'm sure you'll solidify one way or another as the day goes on.

[u r a person 2]

@enter I'm with you voting on Reck, and I'm eager to see and support this play style of yours. Why did we move off of chara?

I like your style.

Branson recently starting pushing skitter over something that happened a while ago that we never really sorted.

In response, in my reads post I asked a lot of people to take a side, skitter or reck. I don't think they're mafia together, so we sort one, we sort both. Branson is pushing skitter so I'm providing counter-weight so we can see who jumps on where and try and sort them in the process of sorting reck.

Am I reading you correctly in that you think there is probably one in {skitter, reck}? Why couldn't they both be town?

[u r a person 2]

i'm not interested in wagoning u2 right now, but there's definitely scum utility here

if

Reck ends up town. there's much less if this is a bus, because the towncred scum u2 gains from helping you is a lot less valuable than where i think this push will go.

pedit: it makes sense from town u2 too, but the way he's saying outright that he wants to help you and figure you out here pinged me. as i said if it's a buddy attempt it's pretty blatant so i don't know how likely i find that.

I must have missed something. How is my alignment related to Reck's alignment?

[u r a person 2]

Urap, why is nmsa no longer your top scum read?

VOTE: reck

He's absolutely my top scum read. You'll note that when I voted Chara, I said that it doesn't change my read on nmsa.

We're going to lynch NMSA today.

[u r a person 2]

Is that a scum read?

[u r a person 2]

i'm not really vibing with the reck wagon rn; i'm not entirely sure why it's a thing
if nmsa ever flips scum there's very very very likely scum in the current reck voters

The Reck wagon currently consists of me and Enter

Are you referring to Enter, or has your read on me changed?

[u r a person 2]

If NMSA is scum, and Enter is town, then scum is either sitting back to see how this day goes - either on or off NMSA's wagon

or is making little trial balloons to see if a push off NMSA is viable

[u r a person 2]

If I'm wrong on NMSA, and I don't think I am

People on NMSA wagon - and especially the people on NMSA early - are probably town

[u r a person 2]

i mean if nmsa is scum and the whole reck wagon {you, enter} is town, then yes, scum is pretty content to not really do much to influence the gamestate

the whole gamestate is very quiescent rn and i don't know why and it's kinda disquieting

I know, and it's why I'm pretty content with my town reads on the top three posters besides myself

[u r a person 2]

top 4*

I'm town reading tris as well. Not as solidly as you, enter, and brig, but a town read

[u r a person 2]

my gut says town!chara and town!reck, too, but don't ask me to defend these. I have no good reasons.

I think scum is lurking or semi lurking this out rn

[u r a person 2]

Skitter, have you ever played with Branson before?

The push on you looks townie if you take it as a given that Branson hasn't played with you.

[u r a person 2]

and i guess i might as well get to where i've been leading up to wrt branson: she was my scumbuddy in one of my recent 'good' scumgames (gerrymandering) and i think this game is already sufficiently different from that one that i'm kinda surprised that she's scumreading me here tbh

oooh I had noted this post before, thanks for the reminder

Well, neeeeevermind lol

[u r a person 2]

Join me here, skitter, enter?

VOTE: Branson

[u r a person 2]

Hot Take: Ankamius replaced in with an alt to make it more difficult for you to read them?

[u r a person 2]

although if she's scum i'm not sure what she's actually trying to get out of this? there's at least half a dozen easier pushes she could be making here and like that's never going to end in a mislynch on me here realistically

Maybe just a way to be active without having to take a stand on NMSA/Enter/Me? just spitballing

@Brig good to see your

face

avatar again! NMSA still the lynch, don't worry

[u r a person 2]

it's not because i'm busy anymore, for what it's worth. i have the evening off today.

How can I help you get reconnected to the game?

[u r a person 2]

I just had to check my own iso to make sure I didn't accidently vote nmsa... lol

my vote is on branson atm.

but my fiery gaze has been locked on NMSA the entire time

[u r a person 2]

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts under the assumption that skitter is town, branson

[u r a person 2]

@Ank

I think the thing you could do to best help me read you is to catch up and just tell us where you're at reads wise

[u r a person 2]

boop

tbh I might not until I have a reason to

You're not the first person I've seen with this mindset

But I don't understand it at all.

Might as well try to hit a baseball blindfolded

[u r a person 2]

There's a pattern of players calling me scum and then not voting me.

I wonder why that is...

[u r a person 2]

Ank, Flubber, Chara

Am I missing anyone?

[u r a person 2]

Because I'm not interested in pushing you right now

It doesn't get me anything

Yeah it makes total sense. Reading the game doesn't get you anything, and neither does voting your scum reads.

[u r a person 2]

If you think I'm scum, let's go folks

[u r a person 2]

If you don't want to push me, what's even the point of saying it?

[u r a person 2]

You're not really giving reads. You're just shading me and inexplicably calling nmsa town. What reasons do you have?

VOTE: nmsa

I'm ready to do this tbh. got a decent town bloc and caught scum

[u r a person 2]

aiiyo there we go buddy! Now you're doing it!

[u r a person 2]

Me or NMSA let's go!

[u r a person 2]

There's one scum in us.

@enter you like clearing people through flips right? (re: reck vs. skitter)

Here you go mate. This is the dichotomy

[u r a person 2]

You're not really giving reads. You're just shading me and inexplicably calling nmsa town. What reasons do you have?

VOTE: nmsa

I'm ready to do this tbh. got a decent town bloc and caught scum

This is not a town response

Let's gooooooo

nice sidestep~ you have no reasons

[u r a person 2]

@all
If you don't want to lynch nmsa today, get your votes on me. let's go

[u r a person 2]

What reasons do you have?

[u r a person 2]

prove me wrong. just prove me fucking wrong.

[u r a person 2]

Ok so for real

I don't like the homogenized gamestate we are in right now

Either scum are pocketed to hell and back or there's enough mislynches at the bottom of the chain to hide them until they can break the townblock that's been forming apart

In a vacuum I'd expect at least one scum in the active posters atm and currently I think it's most likely to be urap2 via toneread

Chara could be scum this game but I also incorrectly scumread it last time we played in the same game so I don't trust that read as much

NMSA is probably town if I had to guess

I mean you scum read me in this post, and all of your reasons =/ are about posts after this post.

So, frankly, I think you were bullshitting in this post. Where was my tone scum-indicative?

[u r a person 2]

yes im pushing lurkers because this is how lurkers win games and id rather lose 100000x over to someone actually trying and playing the game than let shitbag lurkers skate through and win after doing nothing

there's a good goddamn reason lynch all lurkers was the site meta 10 years ago, and there's a reason im pushing to bring it back (i dont recall which game it was, but it was one where Aristophanes lurked all game and skated by to a win)

okay, sure.

But NMSA is scum and we're not lynching a lurker over scum today.

[u r a person 2]

good lynch.

[u r a person 2]

good lynch.

how do you feel about the upcoming townflip?

Lol, we'll see mate

nmsa is scum is scum is scum is scum is scum is scum

[u r a person 2]

@NMSA if you're around you should come give your reads on the off chance you're town

[u r a person 2]

You're not really giving reads. You're just shading me and inexplicably calling nmsa town. What reasons do you have?

VOTE: nmsa

I'm ready to do this tbh. got a decent town bloc and caught scum

You asked for reads, you got them, but then you say that Ank shouldn't have called you scum without voting you? She was doing what you asked for there.

@urap2

I asked for reads

I got bad reads in return. I asked for reasons, and pushed them to actually vote their scum reads? I don't understand the problem

[u r a person 2]

reck how do you feel about urap2 now

prob scum if im right and we get a townflip

not even worried, mate

[u r a person 2]

would love to hear anything from NMSA atm.

Hammer could have been timed better, triss =/

[u r a person 2]

I am eagerly awaiting for this basis.

Didn't you hear? I have a scummy tone throughout my 5 pages of content

[u r a person 2]

easy

urap2's reaction to the hammer was a very fake response
and your reaction was to completely ignore it <--- scum-indicative in my experience

Here's a post I made directly after a hammer vote --- as town

good vote

[u r a person 2]

And yes, the hammer was fake, that's why I was hoping NMSA was around =/

As I said, triss, it could have been timed better

[u r a person 2]

easy

urap2's reaction to the hammer was a very fake response
and your reaction was to completely ignore it <--- scum-indicative in my experience

Here's a post I made directly after a hammer vote --- as town

good vote

your posts right after that look a lot more town than what you did in this game

Lol, right okay. "THIS IS THE SCUMMIEST THING EVER"

"Oh you make that post as town,

guess I should rethink my tone based read

YOU'RE STILL SCUMM!!!1"

[u r a person 2]

@ank Mate, if you're town you should read your own sig

[u r a person 2]

We're lynching NMSA today. That's what's happening. He's scum and this push off of him is awful

[u r a person 2]

good lynch.

good lynch.

how do you feel about the upcoming townflip?

Lol, we'll see mate

nmsa is scum is scum is scum is scum is scum is scum

@NMSA if you're around you should come give your reads on the off chance you're town

How are these scummy, exactly? How is asking NMSA to come and give his reads after a fake hammer scummy?

A reaction to his own fake hammer would have been the best thing for town right now.

[u r a person 2]

If you're town, your play today is not good. I'm out for a bit, this is raising my blood pressure through the roof.

NMSA is the lynch today. I'm sure you'll be able to push my mislynch if I'm wrong. Like holy shit there is no way that I'm not the lynch tomorrow if NMSA is town. Do you think scum!me is trading one-for-one with town!NMSA? That's fucking absurd.

[u r a person 2]

^@ank

[u r a person 2]

If NMSA's partners aren't in the super lurker category

Then NMSA must either be a strong scum PR

or killing scum must trigger something they don't want (I'm thinking along the lines of it being nightless now but not necessarily forever)

[u r a person 2]

I haven't got scum d1 in so long.

(I'm not saying this because I think people should sheep me for it)

I'm 5/8 lynching scum D1 in my town games. It feels good. Let's get you one! =P

[u r a person 2]

I don't like scum lynches d1

town tends to lose them from my experience

Is this why you want to hold off on NMSA, or?

[u r a person 2]

That's not the only argument. The meta argument is good. More importantly,

it's correct.

His reads list is bullshit both because the reasoning is bullshit and because it doesn't jive AT ALL with his inability to make any reads whatsoever as town in his last game.

His questions are easy questions that don't imply any actual thought process about the game

He can't back up his votes with decent reasons, and he had to switch his votes after being called out on his votes and his reads not making any sense

He's fucking scum

[u r a person 2]

jesus spoiler that shit if you're going to post giant photos

[u r a person 2]

or at least make the post amusing

[u r a person 2]

His reads list is bullshit both because the reasoning is bullshit and because it doesn't jive AT ALL with his inability to make any reads whatsoever as town in his last game.

His questions are easy questions that don't imply any actual thought process about the game

He can't back up his votes with decent reasons, and he had to switch his votes after being called out on his votes and his reads not making any sense

He's fucking scum

[u r a person 2]

His reads list is bullshit both because the reasoning is bullshit and because it doesn't jive AT ALL with his inability to make any reads whatsoever as town in his last game.

His questions are easy questions that don't imply any actual thought process about the game

He can't back up his votes with decent reasons, and he had to switch his votes after being called out on his votes and his reads not making any sense

He's fucking scum

[u r a person 2]

Good Fucking Vote

[u r a person 2]

I don't know how to use that vote scrubber thing. Can someone do that so I don't have to go back and count votes again

[u r a person 2]

wait that's still not a hammer. brigg unvoted.

[u r a person 2]

current votes on nmsa are: Tictac, triss, flubb, me, enter, reck not in that order tho

[u r a person 2]

need one more

[u r a person 2]

Seriously, if one of you knows how to use the scrubber I would really appreciate it

[u r a person 2]

Thanks, Enter. That's awesome.

Where's your head at, Brig?

[u r a person 2]

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

[u r a person 2]

So like, the opening was scummy af. He was clearly making up reads and he was stumbling over them, and he never actually went back to look at either 1915 or 1917 to check my meta he went off of memory. And that led to him screwing up regarding me making early content and I slammed him for that. but that meshes with the style he was attempting, tbh. They weren't supposed to be real reads

And I remember thinking at the time that his reads list was shit, and I was kind of in the headspace that enter was scum and that perhaps he was telling nmsa to stfu and just post some reads (and enter had said he was assuming day talk, which made me think there probably is day talk)

but looking back at it, it reads super relaxed. wordings like "my own reads confuse me sometimes" and sticking with the brig vote are probably not in his scum range. Also the reads, while surface level aren't stretched at all. They're not strong reads, and he's not pretending they are, anymore. Which really jives with my understanding of his play.

He hasn't produced much of anything since, but from his perspective and play time he's not winning this 1v1, right? I'm thinking demotivated town

[u r a person 2]

sorry I got a work call. Catching up now

[u r a person 2]

I need to reread the game but

Skitter is still town
NMSA is town (sorry, mate)
Enter is town
Ank is town

All three of these reactions come from town

Spoiler:

show me urap2

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

uh ... do tell

So uh this is embarrassing


and I think I might get mislynched for the first time this day phase as a result lolMy bad, like, not even upset if that happens


but nmsa is town LOL

UNVOTE:

You're going to have to say more than this.

VOTE: ank[/v]

I'm willing to wait a bit for lurkers to get replaced, though, otherwise I'm down with LaL. I think both of them have probably been prodded and they're both well past the replace time.

VOTE: ank

Reads list please.

[u r a person 2]

out of everybody who has stated any kind of suspicion on me, skitter's was the least scummy

urap2 and Brigitte had the scummy scumreads

I always kind of had you more as wrong or wrongheaded town, tbh. My bad, at least on NMSA read

[u r a person 2]

Ank is town

i don't see it

The entire play around the wagon today only makes sense to me as coming from scum in a world where ank and nmsa are scum together, and even that seems far fetched

Much more likely just town who doesn't feel in control of the game and doesn't like where the direction the game is taking

[u r a person 2]

yay skitter is probably town because of this interaction

I agree. How is watch duty right now?

i can't see the sun anymore but I think that might be because I've lost my retinas

Ohhh no. Go see the medical unit quick!

These two have been spamming all game. I'm calling my shot now, this is the scumteam. Come join me on the urap wagon, game is already solved.

Also correct me if I'm wrong because I have no experience in setup spec, but this game probably has more than two scum in it, right? with 13 people? This was a legit dumb!tell I think. He's only played newbie games up until now and they have 2 person teams.

[u r a person 2]

i can see her white-knighting town!nmsa
tbh my read on her doesn't have much to do with nmsa's alignment

Yeah believe me I get the scum pings from like every post, too. Especially today. But if Vedith has taught me anything, it's that town can play that way, so I'm kind of feeling that interpretation.

Of the town reads, this is my least solid.

[u r a person 2]

oh that reminds me: is forgetting that the game is nightless ai at all?

I've forgotten a number of times so far

so probably not?

Remembering it is nightless might be slightly slightly scum-indicative

[u r a person 2]

oh maybe it is slightly slightly town-indic

[u r a person 2]

TicTac looks significantly worse in my new worldview.

Same might be true of brigitte and enter, but enter at least I'm still town reading strongly for the rest of their play

Brigitte I need to take another look

[u r a person 2]

Which slot besides skitter was pro-lynch on nmsa but didn't want to get on the wagon?

That slot is probably scum.

[u r a person 2]

Nimueh

Yeah them

[u r a person 2]

Reck probably town for literally every push and vote move he has made this game, tbh

[u r a person 2]

urap2 and I are like... synced now

that's scary

Are we? you're next for a look after brig. My read on you right now is based entirely off memory.

If we are and we are right, all I can say is that a bad apple spoils the bunch, you know?

[u r a person 2]

Why the change of mind?

I found this question kind of interesting in that, I didn't think the reasoning behind it was there. As though when I read it, I immediately thought "does triss really think there is reasoning here that goes beyond joke posting?" I might be over thinking it but I found the placement odd. Maybe this is overthought to a simple question of person just responding to question.

I wish to have triss here to talk.

You know I had this thought at the time because my first thought on seeing reck's vote switch was "why the switch?" and I dismissed it

but in retrospect, this might be indicative of tmi thought processes.

[u r a person 2]

I could see Brig either way right now. I'mma sleep on that one.

[u r a person 2]

or maybe I was right and you just needed a reframe to see it

Yeah that's what I was trying to say.

[u r a person 2]

or maybe I was right and you just needed a reframe to see it

Yeah that's what I was trying to say.

the bad apple being my nmsa read

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: NMSA

Not even done with my reread but urap knows I wouldn't fall for this, even if I were scum. Also

@nsg v/la until Saturday

He's right that I thought there was a very low % chance that he would fall for a fake hammer given that both of his newbie games had one, and in the second he was the one who did it

But in 1917 chenn had just read through the fake hammer in 1915 when he was caught out by it, so I figured there's always a chance. I wasn't going to just out it as false, anyway.

[u r a person 2]

i can see her white-knighting town!nmsa
tbh my read on her doesn't have much to do with nmsa's alignment

I could see white knighting nmsa, but i think that probably involves more actual pushing of the town read.

This felt more like a chainsaw, which now makes it feel like simply town.

[u r a person 2]

What are you saying here?

I'm saying that if, say, you knew reck was town, you would immediately see the change in votes as being a joke or whatever. That would be the first thing your brain would think of.

But I, as town in rvs trying to get our hooks into the very beginning of this game, see that vote change and go, "huh, why the change?"


this is super light, but I really like trying to dissect people's play when first entering the game, and this might be an interesting data point.

[u r a person 2]

Order is meaningless

Spoiler: reads list

town
tris
skitter30
Enter
Ankamius
xRECKONERx
NotMySpamAccount



not town
Brigitte
tictac
Nimueh
Flubbernugget
Chara
Elbirn Lady Angel

[u r a person 2]

like i'm not sure what the scum motivation is for such a massive read reversal here
cuz if they're partners i don't think he just randomly drops the push
and if nmsa is town and urap is scum like why bother doing this rn?

the fact that i still went "but u2 might still be scum here doing this as a smokescreen in spite of nmsa being town!"
and that's... stupid. and my gut is being stupid. i think this is a case where i have to agree with you on u2 being town and just ignore my gutread on him because it's just making zero sense.

but yes, i agree. i'm kind of happy he's dropped it too, as i never really liked the wagon.

Ankamius, are you still scumreading skitter? maybe i'm tired but i can't tell right now.

This is probably a stretch, but these read to me like the deflation of scum watching both today and tomorrow's mislynches evaporating

Chara says they are happy I've dropped the push, but the whole post reads disappointed.

And remember, Chara was town reading me

even u2 is towny.

So why the long face?

[u r a person 2]

No but really am at work right now, will read later, but if theres anything I should be aware of or doing besides read, or that would help me during my read, or help me not say read several times in a row, please spoon feed that information into my face.

So far all I know is theres no night phase until further notice per the op

Nothing else setup or mechanics related has been revealed, or even really talked about, if that's what you mean.

[u r a person 2]

yo i'm here and only a little distracted. What's up?

[u r a person 2]

@Brigitte I think I'm scum reading this fake hammer in particular. What do you think?

VOTE: nmsa

[u r a person 2]

yay skitter is probably town because of this interaction

I agree. How is watch duty right now?

i can't see the sun anymore but I think that might be because I've lost my retinas

Ohhh no. Go see the medical unit quick!

These two have been spamming all game. I'm calling my shot now, this is the scumteam. Come join me on the urap wagon, game is already solved.

Also correct me if I'm wrong because I have no experience in setup spec, but this game probably has more than two scum in it, right? with 13 people? This was a legit dumb!tell I think. He's only played newbie games up until now and they have 2 person teams.

before i dive into that, what do ya think of this?

I'm scum reading it because it's a rehash of a play that just got made, with no discussion from flubber about it afterwards, and I guess it just doesn't sit right with me. I was kind of hoping you'd help me nail down why I feel that way

[u r a person 2]

If they are surface level reads as you say, how does that make him town?
Couldn't he be demotivated scum by the same reasoning?
You even say he is making up reads, why would he be making up reads as town in this situation? That's a natural evolution of his town play?

I think you went back here reread his posts and basically went. "Too bad to be scum" so Newb Town. Otherwise explain to me how when called out on his reads being fake, his reasoning being surface. Is town or scum motivated? It seems just stupid in general. I don't think stupid is town or scum really.

I don't know if it is a natural evolution of his town play, but before I didn't see any connection to his town game, and now I believe I do. 1917 NMSA couldn't get a read to save his life. But NMSA is not dumb, he knows that finding reads is his game's biggest deficit, and it does make sense for him to get creative about how to do it.

But he didn't execute it well because he's taking a shot in the dark in kind of a form over function mindset. make confident reads and confident reads will come, and obviously a new approach like that isn't going to dramatically improve his underlying read-making skills. So, when it came time to give reads, which again, he knows he has to do, he's left with surface level reads and simple metrics

And obviously this is all speculation, narrative, and projection, but i'm trying to get in this kid's head, and I think I'm there, mate. I really think I'm there.

And remember. He isn't pretending his reads are strong because we called them out on being fake.

Theres like three things I see when I read NMSA ISO:
1) he was being incredibly fake early game
2) he isn't producing a trackable thought process and you could probably throw a dart at the board and that is how NMSA made reads and justified them later.
3) he is being dumb by standing by bad reads he knows are bad.

1 and 2 are suspicious. And 3 is not really alignment indicative to me.

1) I agree! but I can see a town!NMSA motivation now
2) Eh, I disagree. I think the thought process is pretty obviously a run through each player's iso with a fall back of relying on metrics such as post count, length, etc when he couldn't find a read.
3) You mean his vote on you? He backed down immediately on his read on me when it was pointed out the basis was not factual.

[u r a person 2]

{Tictac, Nimueh, Flubber} are the slots I think I prefer to lynch today.

Let's start here?

VOTE: tictac

[u r a person 2]

i'm actually mildly townreading Flubber here. it's not that strong but he does have strong opinions even if they aren't explained very much.
are you townread the rest of the list to some extent?

no, I'm not townreading all 9 other players

But I don't think I want to lynch in {Chara, Brig, Elbirn} right now

[u r a person 2]

Order is meaningless

Spoiler: reads list

town
tris
skitter30
Enter
Ankamius
xRECKONERx
NotMySpamAccount



not town
Brigitte
tictac
Nimueh
Flubbernugget
Chara
Elbirn Lady Angel

this is still accurate for me

[u r a person 2]

What makes you town read flubbeR?

[u r a person 2]

@Flubber are your main complaints with my.. consistency stemming from when I voted with Enter on Chara and then Reck

and then my turn around on NMSA?

[u r a person 2]

No. It has nothing to do with consistency.

I guess I misread. What is it about?

[u r a person 2]

@NMSA Could you talk to me about my read on you in 943 and 848? How does my read mesh with your true motivations, etc. Thanks mate

@everyone else I know there are questions for me outstanding, and I'll get to them this afternoon.

[u r a person 2]

@NMSA Could you talk to me about my read on you in 943 and 848? How does my read mesh with your true motivations, etc. Thanks mate

@everyone else I know there are questions for me outstanding, and I'll get to them this afternoon.

Honestly yeah that's pretty accurate. I did kinda think you and Brigitte might be the scumteam, but not as confidently as I acted. Reads are definitely my weak point (probably a big problem), especially day 1 when I don't have any confirmed info besides my own role. If I survive to day 2, I'll be able to do a lot more analysis.

Was I wrong about anything?

[u r a person 2]

ding ding ding

END of ROUND 1

Fighters, back to your corners~

[u r a person 2]

I found a broken tape recorder and it's got speech to text on. That's what happened.
No I'm not gonna hear the "this is TvT" what town reason does she have to evade questions like this?

I think there is a chance that this is TvT and somewhat of a miscommunication, but like sub 25%

But either way, I think it would be pro-town to give each other some space for a hot minute

If it is tvt, this is not good for the game
and if Nim is scum, I think this exchange might be making it harder to achieve their lynch with each passing back and forth

[u r a person 2]

@urap2 I don't think you've mentioned why you townread me. I understand where the people who are scumreading me are coming from more considering my lackluster performance so far.

Spoiler: tris read, spoiled for wall

I got an initial town lean on you for this early post because I had the same thought at the time

Why the change of mind?

Also this, but both of these were very light, initial impressions

In post 35, u r a person 2 wrote:
Can I suggest NMSA for that wagon? I expect you'll find that more productive, anyhow.

Ok, VOTE: NMSA

I felt like our thoughts were in sync here as well

I do like what's happening with NMSA, and with so many believable reasons to push people right now, I think there's probably scum on his wagon and/or nor voting

I don't think I understand what you are saying here.

and I like that you followed up on it here

I do like what's happening with NMSA, and with so many believable reasons to push people right now, I think there's probably scum on his wagon and/or nor voting

I don't think I understand what you are saying here.

I'd like a response to this.

You had some more back and forth with enter, and I like that all that focus ended in a town read - especially now that my own reads have changed.

I'm leaning towards Enter being town myself.

There's no effort to distance yourself from the wagon you were on (which I know think was on town)

Why is NMSA at L-2 already?

Why is that a surprise? What do you think of the wagon?

This was a difficult idea for people to grasp and you and I both tried to correct the record in real time, again syncing

I don't see why tictac would look like he's busing. He's in basically the same situation as me as relates to that wagon. We both voted for nmsa before he started posting, and stayed because we thought he looked scummy when he did. What in particular about tictac looks like it could be a bus?

And here you're basically asking skitter to scum read you

huh, i'm noticing the lack of mentioning 'daytalk' in the op

oh i reskimmed the first three pages; at the time i was more focused on enter than anything else but yeah the reason why tictac's vote bothered me is that i can see it as early-scum distancing on a wagon that's building on a partner that they imagine might dissipate before it goes anywhere dangerous; it's a safe-seeming way to distance at that stage

i'm not saying it *is* this; i'm saying that it's the sort of vote that i've seen scum make before so if someone *is* bussing on that wagon that's where i'd probe further

Do you think this reasoning would apply to my vote as well?

-I felt the fake hammer and the following discussion about it was townie, if only because using "reaction test" as an excuse there would be obvious and difficult to dispute, so I think scum just uses that excuse more often than not?

-You've engaged a large number of slots with questions and follow ups, and I wasn't able to detect a change in tone or flow when reading your interactions with different slots (which might be indicative of an svs interaction)

I've been putting this off all afternoon because I only vaguely remembered why I town read you, but going through your iso I think I see a pretty solid amount of town posts

[u r a person 2]

@NMSA Could you talk to me about my read on you in 943 and 848? How does my read mesh with your true motivations, etc. Thanks mate

@everyone else I know there are questions for me outstanding, and I'll get to them this afternoon.

Honestly yeah that's pretty accurate. I did kinda think you and Brigitte might be the scumteam, but not as confidently as I acted. Reads are definitely my weak point (probably a big problem), especially day 1 when I don't have any confirmed info besides my own role. If I survive to day 2, I'll be able to do a lot more analysis.

Was I wrong about anything?

Not really, except that I would say I'm not demotivated. I just switched back to my natural persona which is slightly more lurkerish, so there's less content than if I had kept going with what I tried early on.

=/ I was expecting to have missed more nuances in your thought process/reasoning. I didn't really think I was THAT inside your head (even though I said I thought I was THAT inside your head) =P

[u r a person 2]

I could have sworn there was another question waiting for my response, but I can't find it

So if you're waiting on me to answer something, please ask again

[u r a person 2]

have you managed to light that cigar yet

Spoiler:

[u r a person 2]

hell yes

No further questions.

We choose to play this game. We choose to play this game in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.



ok. I'll see myself out.

[u r a person 2]

ank was there a game-related reason for asking about my cigar or was it just for fun

[u r a person 2]

ah, well

would have been neat if you were seeing if i bantered as well w/ you as w/ brig earlier

[u r a person 2]

and by neat i mean town af

[u r a person 2]

Can you be anymore obvious right now though?
Like I can't imagine.

Someone as town. Would ask someone who was scumreading me. What their thoughts on a case I make, and then act like 'ohh I guess I am not being irrational right now'.

Like if you are thinking in these terms as town. I don't even have words for you.

=/

If I have a town read whom I respect and we're meshing a bit on reads, I might use them as a sanity check on a read. why not?

You can't really believe this.

[u r a person 2]

It's entirely possible to scumread someone and not find specific things scummy

yah, this. This line of thinking basically assumes anyone, or at least reck on you, with a scum read is blindly tunneling.

[u r a person 2]

I don't necessarily agree with your givens. I think it's clear reck read the case Ank quoted, and I think Ank was probably exaggerating her concern a tad.

But yeah, I think it's reasonable. I think it would have also been reasonable to ask someone else. Ank was here, reck was here. I'm not losing sleep over her decision.

[u r a person 2]

I don't necessarily agree with your givens. I think it's clear reck read the case Ank quoted, and I think Ank was probably exaggerating her concern a tad.

But yeah, I think it's reasonable. I think it would have also been reasonable to ask someone else. Ank was here, reck was here. I'm not losing sleep over her decision.

What givens do you not agree with here?

All of this seems fake and just used to get more general consensus around her. Which to me isn't hard to do if you ask people who agree with you to basically agree with you, which is what i saw with that post.

I listed what I disagreed with in that very line...

[u r a person 2]

Brig, what are you even talking about with this read the game stuff.

I don't understand why you are

so sure

reck isn't reading the game.

It feels to me like you're intentionally provoking him either to avoid engaging with him or you know I don't even know why

but i don't like it.

[u r a person 2]

I mean, I could give you examples if you want. And you even agreed with me at one point that he was skimming at best at certain points of the game.

Also this amuses me to no end at this point.

Yeah like 40 pages ago or something. We're 1300 posts in and reck clearly has a handle on the state of the game. Like holy shit I'm sure he has consumed a large portion of this game at minimum

yeah give the examples

because right now i want to lynch you and I can't tell whether that has more to do with me thinking your scum or with me just being aghast at you shouting read the game over and over

[u r a person 2]

Wow hey Brigitte that's two other people who don't understand your insistence that I'm not reading

Are they just not reading the game too

Actually, looking back I don't think I discussed this at all