Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Tohru]

Hello!

[Tohru]

Is this a normal game? Where was the kill Night 1?

Why does it say that scum "escaped" Night 2?

Flubbernugget, Secret Agent, escaped Night 2

[Tohru]

Brigitte is town, Enter is town.

[Tohru]

Reckoner is town, ur a person 2 is town.

[Tohru]

skitter is scumlean.

Brandon has a nice avatar, unfortunately that's my slot.

[Tohru]

Lady Angel is scumlean, Tris is town.

[Tohru]

Chara is scumlean, NMSA is scumlean.

[Tohru]

I already know Flubber flipped scum, sadly.

[Tohru]

welcome Tohru. sorry to see you go, Ankamius.

Hi! Reading up 150 pages right now.

[Tohru]

tris and reckoner are highly townread now.

[Tohru]

Nimueh's town.

[Tohru]

At page 55, I want skitter lynched.

[Tohru]

welcome Tohru. sorry to see you go, Ankamius.

I think this game is as simple as "more / bigger posts = town, worse posts = scum".

[Tohru]

xtoxm is very likely town.

[Tohru]

Creature's town.

[Tohru]

I want to get to the Day 1 flip so that I can consider 1 less player.

[Tohru]

Tohru, would you mind putting a few of these into one post instead of separate ones? listing your reads could be consolidated.
also i hope to head to bed. night!

I'll consolidate them at the end of my readthrough.

Good night!

[Tohru]

Brigitte was the stupidest Day 1 lynch ever. Now I have a townread dead.

[Tohru]

Something's up. Where's Night 2? I should read the setup information but there wasn't any indication this was a non-normal game.

[Tohru]

it's less about having a post with all your reads than

not

having ten one liners in quick succession. it's just a little hard to read.

Sorry about that. It's a consequence of having a replacement read 150 pages all in one sitting. Some people write massive walls. Some people don't even read. I

could

have consolidated my reads on a Word Doc, I guess, but from past experience this is less of a hassle and also helps town connect with my thoughts.

[Tohru]

welcome Tohru. sorry to see you go, Ankamius.

I've completely lost my will to win this game, it died after the D1 lynch, and now it feels like diving into a pool of molasses just reading the thread. I'm perfectly willing to sheep Ank or skitter or someone if it will just get this game to the end or at least to a point where the game is moving fast than 2 posts a day. If Ank is scum taking advantage to lead town astray, then screw it the scumteam deserves the win because I just don't care enough anymore. VOTE: Flubber, I hope it's not L-1 or a hammer cause I'm sure not checking.

AUGHHH I WANT TO WRITE OFF NMSA SO BAD BUT THIS

IS

SO

FUCKING

TERRIBLE

This is top quality considering Flubber is actually scum.

[Tohru]

does anyone need anything specific tho

i still dont know why flubber is scum

What if I meet you halfway and iso him and we compare notes

Bad

[Tohru]

No I'm scumclaiming

Quality posting, right there!

[Tohru]

Xtoxm is town, Elbirn is hard scum now.

[Tohru]

Something's up. Where's Night 2? I should read the setup information but there wasn't any indication this was a non-normal game.

you should read the setup and the mod posts before you go further. i think it'd be more valuable to read the game knowing what the scum knew from the beginning.

I can't find this from the first few posts, I'm probably going to have to go to the Queue to find out more.

[Tohru]

This town is awful, lynching two obvious (to me) town back to back? Okay. Can't you guys lynch actual scummy players?

[Tohru]

Something's up. Where's Night 2? I should read the setup information but there wasn't any indication this was a non-normal game.

you should read the setup and the mod posts before you go further. i think it'd be more valuable to read the game knowing what the scum knew from the beginning.

I can't find this from the first few posts, I'm probably going to have to go to the Queue to find out more.

Scratch this, it's announced at the End of Day 2. Jeez, what a delay.

[Tohru]

The game will change starting from Day 3. At this point, the Mafia will begin "escaping". Each night, in addition to a mandatory kill, one of the Mafia must choose to "escape", and will exit the game being revealed to be Mafia. However, at this point, if just one member of the Mafia is lynched, the Mafia loses.

Okay, this makes things extraordinarily easy.

[Tohru]

Chara's town, but with barfably bad reads.

[Tohru]

oldest trick in the fucking book. i'm stupid.
there's no way Ank was bussing with that ruleset.

we have two more chances to lynch a scum or we lose. that's basically it.

Yeah, Ank confitown now.

Well, that's half the battle won.

[Tohru]

How is NMSA still alive over Brigitte and Xtoxm who were miles townier?

[Tohru]

Okay, I'm 100% current.

Here we go:

tohru
Reckoner
Chara
Nimueh
tris
Creature
skitter30

-
NMSA
Succint
Elbirn

VOTE: Elbirn

[Tohru]

Nah.

VOTE: Succinct

[Tohru]

VOTE: Elbirn

ISO'd Succinct. Ehhhhhhhh.

[Tohru]

Good morning everyone. Looks like nobody is awake yet, still. Or maybe don't care about the game.

Have a clear head; making some minor adjustments:

tohru
Reckoner
Nimueh
Chara
NMSA
tris
skitter30
-

Creature
Elbirn
Succint


VOTE: Succinct

I think we kill this today.

[Tohru]

Correction: Creature is actually probably town.

Scumreads don't change.

@Nimueh, @Chara, @Reckoner, would really appreciate more votes on Succinct please.

I think you guys want this game to end way more than I do, so let's cooperate. I really do not want to make this hard, considering what you guys have been through so far.

[Tohru]

Maybe you could, I dunno, give a single reason why anyone should vote Succinct?

I hate alts.

Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would. I did think Elbirn was scummy, however, after re-examining and eliminating my biases, I conclude that Succinct is more likely to be scum.

If I could bet right now, I'd be betting a good amount of money on Succinct to flip scum.



Oh, and, please do take that negativity out of here. We've already had enough players replace out of this game as it is.

[Tohru]

was gonna say Tohru is town, but Ank already has been enough.

Hello, Creature, thank you for your contributions. It's stuff like this that reassure me that you're town.

Could you vote Succinct with me? He's one of the five in your PoE, correct? I'd like it a lot if you could help me with this lynch, so that we could end this behemoth of a Theme Game.

[Tohru]

Maybe you could, I dunno, give a single reason why anyone should vote Succinct?

I hate alts.

Corollary: I understand that Succinct did distance/bus with his currently-flipped partner, Flubbernugget, in his ISO, which was the only reason I hesitated slightly on him yesterday. But, I observed his lack of emotion and/or conviction in those posts [compare to NMSA], hinting that it may be indicative of a distancing attempt on a scumpartner who was already under fire (and therefore also the prime candidate to escape the game). Therefore those posts do not overshadow the extraordinarily scummy things behavior he had demonstrated this game.

[Tohru]

Has he done anything

scummy

? Because what you just said was "I see no town reasons" which to me would mean a null read not a scum read.

Yes, he definitely has. Two negative behaviors he has demonstrated are 1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.

I think I have to explain a bit more context into how I develop my reads too. Think about my methodology as a sort of "checklist": If you exhibit towny behaviors, you get some points. If you don't, you get no points. If you do something actively scummy, you gain negative points.

If you take a look at my list, you will notice that quite a large number of the players in this game I have a definitive townread on -- that means that they have actual points or instances which I have good evidence and reason to read them as town. This includes you, too, Mister Reckoner.

Just like in any standardized test, if you get more points, you get a higher score, which is optimal. If you don't get any points, well, that means you probably fail, which is not good. If everyone in the class gets a high score, and you are the only one who failed the test, you're probably going to be in some trouble.

That's what Succinct is to me right now.

In other words, Mister Reckoner, I may have a "null read", in your words, on Succinct, but in a 150 page game with 3800 posts, not just words, but posts, of content, spanning over a month, that "null read" is wholly unacceptable. It's okay to see a moose in a zoo, but not on the street.

I hope I've adequately explained my point of view and hope that you could join me in voting user Succinct.

[Tohru]

So you think Succinct bussed Flub in a high risk play?

I think the impact that Succinct had on the Flub wagon was low, and the fact that Flub claimed IC when he did was perfectly controlled and calculated. In other words, Succinct had such a low impact on the Flub wagon that his presence was more or less inconsequential. I believe that town was mainly responsible for the correct Flub wagon which threw the scumteam's plans sideways.

[Tohru]

THIS is saying that my strongest tool for scumhunting is not going to be useful here.

I know it's your strongest tool.
It's usually one of mine.
But given the setup, unfortunately, it's what I think; lacking a mastermind, scum were going to show high self-preservation, masking interactions with scumbuddies.

1. NMSA thinks that sheeping me throughout d2 is his best odds at surviving, even far enough to be willing to bus Flubber and conftown all but FOUR towns in the process.

This applies to

all

Flubber voters; voting him risked conftowning all but four town. Do you think every Flubber voter was town? I don't.

^This post is also a pretty bad look.

[Tohru]

To put it in other terms, Succinct was never

pushing

Flubbernugget, he was only

voting

him.

Again, I had the same doubts as you yesterday, which was why I hesitated temporarily switched back to Elbirn. But upon re-analysis I believe this is the best conclusion.

[Tohru]

Maybe you could, I dunno, give a single reason why anyone should vote Succinct?

I hate alts.

Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would. I did think Elbirn was scummy, however, after re-examining and eliminating my biases, I conclude that Succinct is more likely to be scum.

If I could bet right now, I'd be betting a good amount of money on Succinct to flip scum.



Oh, and, please do take that negativity out of here. We've already had enough players replace out of this game as it is.

Does Enter come into your read of the slot?

Maybe you could, I dunno, give a single reason why anyone should vote Succinct?

I hate alts.

Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would. I did think Elbirn was scummy, however, after re-examining and eliminating my biases, I conclude that Succinct is more likely to be scum.

If I could bet right now, I'd be betting a good amount of money on Succinct to flip scum.



Oh, and, please do take that negativity out of here. We've already had enough players replace out of this game as it is.

What about Enter, his predecessor? Did his ISO seem scummy to you?

Hello.

No, Enter's read completely did not factor into my read on the slot. In fact, I don't remember a single thing they have posted; they are either not memorable or just as scummy as for the same reasons Succinct was. Which is funny, because looking back at my speednotes that I've posted previously, I actually wrote that "Enter is town". But, my overall conclusive stance after reading 150 pages in a single sitting will be authoritative on the read of the slot, and I unequivocally pronounce the Succinct slot as scum.

I believe that my perspective on the game as a late-game replacement is the most accurate and objective, because I have read through the entire game with no preconceived notions or biases towards certain slots, allowing me to have a clear and definitive picture of the gamestate. I understand that my perspective of the game will be vastly different from you guys', simply because the game has spanned for close to a month, and some of you rely either on at best hazy memory, or worse, have completely forgotten the events of the early game with exceptions to the most prominent ones. Therefore I will put my best efforts into convincing the rest of you of my viewpoint.

I really need all of you who are town to work with me today, so that we can conclusively end this game in a win, which I'm sure you all want. I believe from my readthrough that my predecessor has already earned your trust in the fact that my slot is town-aligned, so that helps. But it will be a struggle to convince some of you of my viewpoint, so I really hope for your support.

[Tohru]

...

ok.

so just to summarize

enter: *does a really scummy thing by changing his mind on a read out of nowhere*
people: *vote enter for doing the scummy thing*
enter: but aha you see it is i who is a genius because i

meant

to be scummy

cool okay hey everyone you can ignore the last six pages this is everything right here ^^^

"Ouch I got played and now I look dumb pls vote for this guy so I don't feel as bad for voting for lynchbait"

Wow. I'm cranky, sorry about that. I'm gonna go eat bekfast, see you in a bit

is this early game distancing between Reck and Enter or am i too far gone down the rabbit hole?
there's probably no way to actually tell and i'm jumping at nothing because it might fit with what i think the team is.

I believe that Reck is clearly and undoubtedly town-aligned, and I will be upset to see any more mentions or suggestions for him to be lynched.

Sure, his reads may not be the best; in fact, I'm struggling to convince him of my own reads currently, but I really strongly believe that Reck is town in this game.

I would really appreciate it if you helped me with the Succinct push.

[Tohru]

Correction: Creature is actually probably town.

Scumreads don't change.

@6Nimueh, @Chara, @Reckoner, would really appreciate more votes on Succinct please.
`
I think you guys want this game to end way more than I do, so let's cooperate. I really do not want to make this hard, considering what you guys have been through so far.

I hardtown read Enter, who was Succinct’s predecessor, so I don’t think he’s scum.

That would be a colossal mistake. Enter has only been in the game for a fraction of its duration, and Succinct was responsible for most of the game. And Succinct is pretty darn scummy. That tips the balance waaaaaay against the odds of a Succinct slot.

If anything, it's a good credit to Enter's scum game, being able to portray towniness when he actually isn't.

Here's a thought exercise. Imagine a game with user RadiantCowbells (renowned for commonly being townread when scum), who replaces out after a short stint in the game, into user Creature (Hello, I know you're in the game, I hope you're not offended by the use of you as an example ^~^) who is commonly known to be extremely easy to read and transparent in his alignments. Who would you pay more attention into reading and trying to determine the alignment of?


I hope you answered Creature.

---

Same logic: Succinct is extraordinarily scummy and therefore we can infer that he is arguably a lot worse at hiding his alignment than Enter. This should result in a Succinct scumread, not an Enter townread.

I hope you can vote Succinct with me, please.

[Tohru]

at this stage i'm less interested in what feels town (for example, Elbirn feels very town to me but i'm not comfortable locktowning him) and more interested in what makes sense as a partner with Flubber.
i also have posts from Reck that felt town but i'm not convinced he actually is.
Succint, i need to see if they were orchestrating a bus or not. should remember to do that when i have more time.

You'll never be always accurate with associative reads, simply because the scum know the alignments of their teammates and can therefore plan their interactions accordingly. In the absence of information, the scum always have the advantage.

This is why behavioral reads are always superior. It puts the power into town to portray their towniness, rather than associative reads which puts the power into scum where they control how they interact with the rest of the game.

It also doesn't help your case that Town was so behind this entire game, that the entire game was going 100% according to scum's plans. Associative reads work best when scum are caught off guard and their teammates are caught by accident. But if they actually

choose

which teammate gets to leave the game, then you're just playing into their hand.

[Tohru]

Elbirn
Succint
Chara
NotMySpamAccount
tris

It's 5p LyLo, two of you are scum, the rest of us are treestumps. If you lynch someone wrong, you lose (not in practice, but let's do like this).

Yeah, so all three of my candidates are on this list. I'm not sure which one I'd think has the best chances, but if I had to choose now, I'd go with Elbirn. Never NMSA who I think is town.

I'm really hoping that you'll help me with Succinct. It's a tough mountain to climb, changing people's opinions.

Elbirn is pretty dodgy, yeah, but Succinct is actually

scummy

.

[Tohru]

I think last scum is skitter30. No longer interested in NMSA or Elbirn.

[Tohru]

10 players alive:

8 town : 2 scum

6 players are needed to lynch; since this is a White Flag setup, we can expect scum to never bus in this game. All 6 players that I need to convince for a scum lynch need to be town.

6 town players out of 8.

I comprise one of the town players.

I require the aid of 5 town players.

I can do this!!

[Tohru]

The low activity levels of this game also adds to the challenge, it seems...

[Tohru]

VOTE: Succinct

Please help me! Especially if you are town and have no clue who scum is!!

[Tohru]

...

ok.

so just to summarize

enter: *does a really scummy thing by changing his mind on a read out of nowhere*
people: *vote enter for doing the scummy thing*
enter: but aha you see it is i who is a genius because i

meant

to be scummy

cool okay hey everyone you can ignore the last six pages this is everything right here ^^^

"Ouch I got played and now I look dumb pls vote for this guy so I don't feel as bad for voting for lynchbait"

Wow. I'm cranky, sorry about that. I'm gonna go eat bekfast, see you in a bit

is this early game distancing between Reck and Enter or am i too far gone down the rabbit hole?
there's probably no way to actually tell and i'm jumping at nothing because it might fit with what i think the team is.

I believe that Reck is clearly and undoubtedly town-aligned, and I will be upset to see any more mentions or suggestions for him to be lynched.

Sure, his reads may not be the best; in fact, I'm struggling to convince him of my own reads currently, but I really strongly believe that Reck is town in this game.

I would really appreciate it if you helped me with the Succinct push.

Town!Chara is not usually as flipfloppy as this. I’m starting to wonder if she could possibly be the deep wolf to Elbirn, who is still my strongest sr. NMSA is still objectively scummy by play but VCA spews him as godawful town. I’m not convinced on Succinct scum. Gun to head, I think scum is hardpushing Reck or me for mislynches. Chara’s posting today, should definitely concern you, it does me. Town!Chara is anything if consistent. She keeps wafffling on her read on me. Watch, Chara will suddenly find reasons to tr me but for no clear reason will conveniently evaporate until the next time I push her.

I'm not going to let Chara lynch you. I'm not going to let Chara lynch Reck.

I am going to need you to help me on Succinct scum. Townreading Enter is not a correct way to conclude on a Enter/Succinctslot read, because in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.

[Tohru]

I think last scum is skitter30. No longer interested in NMSA or Elbirn.

Explain.

I don't have a good feel for skitter30 as I have on Succinct. It is an educated guess.

NMSA has demonstrated strong town flashes during the course of the game. He isn't the best; I do wish he was lynched instead of say, Brigitte or Xtoxm, but this is what it is.

As for Elbirn I acknowledged that I am biased against his way of playing. After accounting for this bias he is definitely looking a lot townier than originally thought.

skitter30 played a strong game but pales in comparison to the rest.

[Tohru]

I need you to trust me on this.

[Tohru]

Help me help you get on the same page. For starters, are you convinced and trust that my efforts are currently town-aligned and are strongly working towards town interests?

[Tohru]

I have meta on Enter and that’s a big part of why I tr him here. At worst, Succinct is a null. I’m not rushing this lynch.

I think we need to follow the reads/votes. Scum literally can’t bus in this setup, so I think we’ll have a pretty clear idea who the remaining scum are, once they vote. I am becoming increasingly suspicious of Chara, because of the bolded. Too many people are pinging me rn and I want to wait for more info. I think it’s best not to rush this.

I think your read is wrong.


At least two to three of my townreads are being headstrong stubborn preventing me from getting a Succinct lynch. I'm sorry but I straight up do not believe that "you'll get a pretty clear idea of the remaining scum once they vote". You will only fall prone to inaccurate reads and confirmation bias.

There is no "more info" to wait for. This game has lasted

one month and is 150 pages long

. All the information anyone needs is in the thread.

I've read through the entire thread and have a full understanding of the context and intricacies of the game. I really want to help us win so please I really seek your cooperation.

[Tohru]

I need you to trust me on this.

Help me help you get on the same page. For starters, are you convinced and trust that my efforts are currently town-aligned and are strongly working towards town interests?

I trust you’re locktown and all of your posts have a strong pro-town agenda but your also asking me to go against my current read on that slot. If Succinct makes suspicious reads/votes, I’ll definitely reconsider but I’m not seeing it rn. Not when other slots are pinging me more. I am open to changing my mind on Succinct but like I said, I still tr that slot and at worst, it’s a null but that could change.

We still have time and I want to get as much info as possible first

.

Thank you.

Look, a lot of town players have had rather wrong reads as a collective in this game, which has led to a grand total of

zero

scum lynches so far during the course of a month. I'm not blaming anyone here, this is a team game, but this emphasizes the fact that all the more you guys have to work together and be open to new perspectives.

I've written a mini-essay already to Reck regarding my Succinct read, and it's disappointing that I've been unable to convince you as well. Perhaps I need to be more persuasive? I'm trying my best.

I'm very concerned, because both yourself, Reck, and it appears Chara and tris as well do not seem very open to the idea of a Succinct lynch at all, even when my town-alignment is undoubted and uncontested. This makes me extremely worried for the sake of the game. The activity levels upon the time I have replaced in has also been very low.

I'm not going to sit down and rest on my laurels because "we have time". I've dedicated quite a lot of time to reading this novel of a game and I strongly believe that the path to winning the game is a shoe-in with giant neon letters. I'm definitely not going to twiddle my thumbs and watch you guys drive down the cliff.

[Tohru]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

Mister Reck, there is also more subtext to interactions than MAN VOTE BAD MAN MAN TOWN MAN. I truly hope that this could dispel your Succinct townread that may be solely on the basis of his vote on Flubber.

[Tohru]

my vote is staying parked on brigitte like until she's dead k bye

"I refuse to engage with a player unless she is already prematurely frustrated and emotional, and making further attempts later on is out of the question. I will now sit on her wagon until she is dead. Do not bother engaging with me further."

@Tohru, don’t you think this post is townie?

How is it townie? Enter is shadethrowing and discrediting Reck who is one of my top townreads currently.

I've had reasons to townread Enter, superficially, but the above quote really is not the best evidence at all to prove your case.


Please bear in mind that I've already accounted for Enter and Succinct as a whole in the overall read of the slot.

[Tohru]

Wait, Enter has close to 250 posts?! And he's just as under the radar as Succinct with ~40 posts?! RED FLAG!

[Tohru]

I need you to trust me on this.

Help me help you get on the same page. For starters, are you convinced and trust that my efforts are currently town-aligned and are strongly working towards town interests?

I trust you’re locktown and all of your posts have a strong pro-town agenda but your also asking me to go against my current read on that slot. If Succinct makes suspicious reads/votes, I’ll definitely reconsider but I’m not seeing it rn. Not when other slots are pinging me more. I am open to changing my mind on Succinct but like I said, I still tr that slot and at worst, it’s a null but that could change.

We still have time and I want to get as much info as possible first

.

Thank you.

Look, a lot of town players have had rather wrong reads as a collective in this game, which has led to a grand total of

zero

scum lynches so far during the course of a month. I'm not blaming anyone here, this is a team game, but this emphasizes the fact that all the more you guys have to work together and be open to new perspectives.

I've written a mini-essay already to Reck regarding my Succinct read, and it's disappointing that I've been unable to convince you as well. Perhaps I need to be more persuasive? I'm trying my best.

I'm very concerned, because both yourself, Reck, and it appears Chara and tris as well do not seem very open to the idea of a Succinct lynch at all, even when my town-alignment is undoubted and uncontested. This makes me extremely worried for the sake of the game. The activity levels upon the time I have replaced in has also been very low.

I'm not going to sit down and rest on my laurels because "we have time". I've dedicated quite a lot of time to reading this novel of a game and I strongly believe that the path to winning the game is a shoe-in with giant neon letters. I'm definitely not going to twiddle my thumbs and watch you guys drive down the cliff.

What does your alignment have to do with anything? As I said, you’re bleeding locktown but how does that translate to you’re being right? And I also don’t see what harm, obtaining more information does? We’re nowhere close to EoD3, are we?

Okay, there are two fundamental issues:

A player who is bleeding locktown: You can fully trust that everything that they do, they do it for the best interests of the town, in their opinion.
A player who is townish but with some doubts: You can consider their reads and pushes, but you're wary of anything out of the ordinary that may work against town's win condition
A player who is of questionable alignment: You probably don't trust anything they have to say, anything they do can be interpreted as scummy and harmful to town.

---

A player of the top tier would be infinitely more trustworthy, and thus, more reasonable to listen to, or follow, than one from the bottom tier. That doesn't linearly translate into the correctness of that player's reads; you need to make a valued judgment based on their logic, their train of thought, and their perspective. But, if their reasoning makes sense, and logic is sound, I don't see why you couldn't be more open to a different perspective that they hold even if their conclusion is different, or disagrees with an opinion that you currently have. After all, you know, and do trust, that they are working in your best interests. In other words, your mom (sorry, I'm making an assumption here) is always working in your best interests, even though they may not be correct in everything, but it pays to listen to what she has to say with a deep thinking ear.


Next is about "waiting for more information". The game is close to 4000 posts and 160 pages. We are already at information saturation. People are already rather inactive and lax as it is regarding this game's posting. Being lazy and procrastinating is always a recipe for disaster. Hard work pays off. Come on, we can change the state of the game. I'm struggling here. I really need your help to join me.

[Tohru]

How is it townie? Enter is shadethrowing and discrediting Reck who is one of my top townreads currently.

can you convince me on Reck being town?

If I were to cite the reasons being tone and strong townie conviction, would that convince you on Reck town?

I understand that his reads have been poor. He defended Flubbernugget, which is a thorn in your side. You know what, he's hard defending Succinct right now, in fact, and that's trouble for me, yet I still top townread him. Why? Because I feel that he genuinely believes in his reads. I am convinced that he is working to solve the game in his own little way, even if they are misguided. He's protecting his townreads and pushing his scumreads. That's what town does.

Their accuracy is irrelevant. Not all town get it right all the time. In fact, the trend is that town gets it wrong more often than not.

You know what? If you think Reck is scum; then let me tell you that Succinct is his partner. You wanna hit him where it hurts? Vote for Succinct with me.

If he's town and wise, he'll come around. Otherwise, you know that you're performing an action that directly hurts your top scumread, and helps town (me) too, and that's a win.

[Tohru]

if i really think you're right on him being town, i'll vote Succinct.
tris and NMSA are town for other reasons, tris moreso, and skitter and Ank are town. Creature really is and Nim's patterns still fit what i think is town.
scum Reck not wanting to go after Nim here is a good point but i feel he would have other options (it seems like NMSA eternally gets votes) so i'm uncomfortable locktowning him based on that alone.

Okay, I’m liking this post more. But you need to see it from mpov which you’re obviously not. Considering that I’m being currently voted by at least one horrible town and another slot I sr, can you seriously not understand why you being even remotely hedgey on me, doesn’t completely reassure me?

Because if you do, you would clearly see why your frustration at me, is obviously misplaced. Yes Tris is also hedgey on me but I have other reasons to think she’s town here.

Who's voting for you?

NSG hasn't posted a votecount since Day 3, I think.

[Tohru]

if i really think you're right on him being town, i'll vote Succinct.
tris and NMSA are town for other reasons, tris moreso, and skitter and Ank are town. Creature really is and Nim's patterns still fit what i think is town.
scum Reck not wanting to go after Nim here is a good point but i feel he would have other options (it seems like NMSA eternally gets votes) so i'm uncomfortable locktowning him based on that alone.

Okay, I’m liking this post more. But you need to see it from mpov which you’re obviously not. Considering that I’m being currently voted by at least one horrible town and another slot I sr, can you seriously not understand why you being even remotely hedgey on me, doesn’t completely reassure me?

Because if you do, you would clearly see why your frustration at me, is obviously misplaced. Yes Tris is also hedgey on me but I have other reasons to think she’s town here.

For the record, I feel that you're more likely to be town than Chara, but Chara is also a solid townread. I really would like for the both of you to work together.

[Tohru]

Spoiler:

I need you to trust me on this.

Help me help you get on the same page. For starters, are you convinced and trust that my efforts are currently town-aligned and are strongly working towards town interests?

I trust you’re locktown and all of your posts have a strong pro-town agenda but your also asking me to go against my current read on that slot. If Succinct makes suspicious reads/votes, I’ll definitely reconsider but I’m not seeing it rn. Not when other slots are pinging me more. I am open to changing my mind on Succinct but like I said, I still tr that slot and at worst, it’s a null but that could change.

We still have time and I want to get as much info as possible first

.

Thank you.

Look, a lot of town players have had rather wrong reads as a collective in this game, which has led to a grand total of

zero

scum lynches so far during the course of a month. I'm not blaming anyone here, this is a team game, but this emphasizes the fact that all the more you guys have to work together and be open to new perspectives.

I've written a mini-essay already to Reck regarding my Succinct read, and it's disappointing that I've been unable to convince you as well. Perhaps I need to be more persuasive? I'm trying my best.

I'm very concerned, because both yourself, Reck, and it appears Chara and tris as well do not seem very open to the idea of a Succinct lynch at all, even when my town-alignment is undoubted and uncontested. This makes me extremely worried for the sake of the game. The activity levels upon the time I have replaced in has also been very low.

I'm not going to sit down and rest on my laurels because "we have time". I've dedicated quite a lot of time to reading this novel of a game and I strongly believe that the path to winning the game is a shoe-in with giant neon letters. I'm definitely not going to twiddle my thumbs and watch you guys drive down the cliff.

What does your alignment have to do with anything? As I said, you’re bleeding locktown but how does that translate to you’re being right? And I also don’t see what harm, obtaining more information does? We’re nowhere close to EoD3, are we?

Okay, there are two fundamental issues:

A player who is bleeding locktown: You can fully trust that everything that they do, they do it for the best interests of the town, in their opinion.
A player who is townish but with some doubts: You can consider their reads and pushes, but you're wary of anything out of the ordinary that may work against town's win condition
A player who is of questionable alignment: You probably don't trust anything they have to say, anything they do can be interpreted as scummy and harmful to town.

---

A player of the top tier would be infinitely more trustworthy, and thus, more reasonable to listen to, or follow, than one from the bottom tier. That doesn't linearly translate into the correctness of that player's reads; you need to make a valued judgment based on their logic, their train of thought, and their perspective. But, if their reasoning makes sense, and logic is sound, I don't see why you couldn't be more open to a different perspective that they hold even if their conclusion is different, or disagrees with an opinion that you currently have. After all, you know, and do trust, that they are working in your best interests. In other words, your mom (sorry, I'm making an assumption here) is always working in your best interests, even though they may not be correct in everything, but it pays to listen to what she has to say with a deep thinking ear.


Next is about "waiting for more information". The game is close to 4000 posts and 160 pages. We are already at information saturation. People are already rather inactive and lax as it is regarding this game's posting. Being lazy and procrastinating is always a recipe for disaster. Hard work pays off. Come on, we can change the state of the game. I'm struggling here. I really need your help to join me.

You keep putting the argument that your degree of towniness correlates with your being right. You’re practically IC levels of towniness, so of course I don’t doubt everything you’re doing is 100% with a blatantly pro-town agenda. So, please, this is completely a non-issue here. Neither your alignment or motivation is at all in question. It’s clearly obvious, you are convinced on Succinct scum. I am not doubting that for a second.

Perhaps, if you quoted specific examples, that would help me see it?

Since you were right on other reads and are mindmelding with me for the most part otherwise, I am willing to seriously consider your argument but I need specific examples to see it. Can you help me with that?

Thank you, sure. I will try my best.

I want you to pay attention to how fast Succinct abandons the Flubbernugget wagon immediately after the pressure on him disappears. I think Chara has pointed this out and it's rather recent. Could you relook at it?

I also want to highlight to you how Succinct (Enter as well) has had barely made any pushes or reads or made genuine attempts to solve the game.

It's difficult to show the lack of something. It's like saying, "there is a lack of evidence to prove that X Special Treatment helps to reduce hair loss". X Special Treatment is a sham. It doesn't reduce hair loss.

[Tohru]

if i really think you're right on him being town, i'll vote Succinct.
tris and NMSA are town for other reasons, tris moreso, and skitter and Ank are town. Creature really is and Nim's patterns still fit what i think is town.
scum Reck not wanting to go after Nim here is a good point but i feel he would have other options (it seems like NMSA eternally gets votes) so i'm uncomfortable locktowning him based on that alone.

Okay, I’m liking this post more. But you need to see it from mpov which you’re obviously not. Considering that I’m being currently voted by at least one horrible town and another slot I sr, can you seriously not understand why you being even remotely hedgey on me, doesn’t completely reassure me?

Because if you do, you would clearly see why your frustration at me, is obviously misplaced. Yes Tris is also hedgey on me but I have other reasons to think she’s town here.

Who's voting for you?

NSG hasn't posted a votecount since Day 3, I think.

Yes, she said the vote counter is broken or something?

Elbirn voted me for dumbass reasons and NMSA immediately jumped onboard. That’s the main reason why Chara’s defensiveness is irritating to me. I’m sure if she had two votes on her, she would not find her posts very reassuring if I made them. Why? Because it is my very strong current belief that scum is trying to set up Reck/me mislynches. Therefore anyone both pushing Reck and not townlocking me, who I can’t townlock for other reasons, can’t help pinging me.

I am displeased with Elbirn and NMSA's manner of playing the game. But with a heavy heart I must announce that they can be town, and am therefore tasked with the insurmountable responsibility of trying to prove that to the rest of you.

I do wish they were lynched Day 1 and Day 2 instead of Brigitte and Xtoxm. Their play is definitely ?

Unfortunately I also have to rally to them to help me lynch Succinct. *sigh*

[Tohru]

Succinct is only ever replying to people and never putting forth his own pushes and arguments. I find it difficult to even quote from ISO because it's quite an eyesore. Does nobody actually see the problem with being only reactive rather than proactive?

[Tohru]

It's difficult to show the lack of something. It's like saying, "there is a lack of evidence to prove that X Special Treatment helps to reduce hair loss". X Special Treatment is a sham. It doesn't reduce hair loss.

Addendum: It's possible to prove that X Special Treatment does not reduce hair loss and is a sham, but that would involve: actual scientific tests and controls (e.g. using X Special Treatment, not using it, using a different brand, etc), measuring the rate of hair loss, before and after, etc etc.

Currently I'm being asked to do the same to prove Enter/Succinct's lack of towniness, or scumminess, I suppose.

Life is too short for this!

[Tohru]

I need 5 votes.

{ Chara? , _____ , _____ , _____ , ______ }

Your name could be here!

[Tohru]

Creature

>

skitter30 > tris = Ankamius

>

Nimueh >

Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara

(need more on all of these)

>

Flubbernugget = Brigitte

Barring further info.

VOTE: Brigitte

Has Succinct ever explained his Flubber scumread? He magically arrived at this readslist on his 3rd post. But, coincidentally, votes Brigitte, who flips town, rather than the one who was scum.

I don't know about you guys, but this looks to be more fake than Grandma Nelly's teeth!

[Tohru]

or, that's not quite wha tyou pushed, sorry, but pushing someone on the basis of their actions not being townie (when it's agreed tehy also aren't scummy) is awful imo

Not my intention. My meaning was Brigitte's suspicious; one post not being scummy's not enough to change that, unless it's sufficiently strongly town-indicative, thus my question; was it a town reaction? If it's nai, then it doesn't change prior scumminess.

Succinct what are your overall thoughts atm?

Is the game really "some slots townread each other, almost lynched NMSA together", nothing more?
If so, who were all the NMSA voters?

Creature

>

skitter30 > tris = Ankamius

>

Nimueh >

Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara

(need more on all of these)

>

Flubbernugget = Brigitte

Barring further info.

Reasons for non-grayed reads already given;

grayed reads = need more info.

[Formatting mine]

Major red flag here. Giant lie for the reasons for non-grayed reads being given: No explanation was ever given for Flubbernugget and Brigitte scumread.

[Tohru]

Yeah, I'm not misreading.

Prior to 2187, in Succinct's ISO there was absolutely

zero

explanation given for his reads, especially those in red, which he had proceeded to inexplicably push throughout his campaign in the game.

Why is he unable to come up with genuine reasons to articulate his scumreads?

Because scum already know the alignments of all players, and did not need to "work" as us town did in order to get to the correct answers. He is not good enough as scum to fabricate any convincing reasons for his reads, and therefore chooses not to give any reasons at all.

[Tohru]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

Mister Reck, there is also more subtext to interactions than MAN VOTE BAD MAN MAN TOWN MAN. I truly hope that this could dispel your Succinct townread that may be solely on the basis of his vote on Flubber.

this is actually a really salient point, i think. like i actually sat back and went "....huh"

i guess what im struggling with is the idea that Succinct would risk his buddy dying in that way. you yourself have said scum aren't going to bus in this setup, so why do you think Succinct is the exception to the rule?

The setup changed to White Flag on Day 3, Mister Reck. Scum could "bus" (read: distance. A bus occurs when a teammate actually gets their head rolled under the bus.) before that.

Scum also had special privileged access to the setup information that Town did not have. Which means to say, they

knew

that a player had to escape even if they played a perfect game on Days 1 and 2. In fact, they did not just know, but they

chose

that player to leave.

This is a very important point, because it means that scum could plan their interactions

since the start of the game

. Clearly they've been doing well, since town as a collective whole was unable to lynch any of the three of them on Days 1 and 2 (and, I thought the lynches were pretty towny and a huge waste, but that's just my opinion!).

Which means to say, Mister Reck, that Succinct's uncanny accuracy on Flubber, was a sham. An act of deception, if you will, meant to convince the rest of the town that he is not part of the scum. And it was a planned, calculated approach. Not good enough to deceive the eyes of Tohru, I might say, but I think by its merits it was sufficient to fool quite a reasonable number of town, which is sufficient.

Now, you ask, why take risks? Two things: 1. It was a low risk, high reward. Flubber's IC claim was made knowing the fact that he would be escaping the next day, and this took advantage of the fact that town did not have this knowledge. Meaning to say, that this event was planned for an unknown period of time. Since the start of the game? Halfway through Day 1? Day 2? This is not important to us, actually. 2. People take risks for the silliest reasons all the time. Why did the 16-year-old boy perform incredibly dangerous parkour/skateboard tricks, just to impress the girl, but risking his neck being broken and hospitalized? Not everyone can assess risk clearly and accurately, without actually putting a lot of thought into it.

In other words, the play was actually a lot lower risk than you think it is, Mister Reck. It was sufficient to fool the town, but it isn't perfectly executed: If you read a bit of my reply to Nimeuh (which is also directed at you, too), you'll notice that Succinct's reasons for scumreading Flubber were non-existent, hinting that it might be fake.

[Tohru]

Can you please link/quote where this happens?

Enter did make pushes. He pushed me really hard for bad reasons but I tr his conviction in those pushes. However, it wouldn’t be the first time two players from the same slot had contrary reads on me. I was in a recent game where a scumslot put a really bad vote on me and then their replace in, put me as their #1 town.

Please pay very close attention to 3903. I think Chara might have explained it better than I can.

[Tohru]

That would be an awesome mechanic. Yeah, let’s swap horrible NMSA and Elbirn and bring back Brigitte and Xtoxm. I’m all for it.

I still think Elbirn is scum and NMSA is only town due to clear anti-partner associatives. Elbirn lied. He claimed to townlocked me, when the closest he ever got to that, is you can be town for now but if I sr you, we be cool crap.

But here we are.

We must look forward. I don't fault your scumread on Elbirn, I myself was suspicious on him on my first readthrough, but he seems genuine. Which is why I really want to get your attention to Succinct, who is a lot more deserving of your scrutiny, but instead he is just riding on Enter's coattails.

[Tohru]

He magically arrived at this readslist on his 3rd post.

Magically arriving with a readslist is my specialty, so dunno what to make here.

There's nothing wrong with magically arriving at readslists. But there is something rather dishonest if five posts later he claims that "I've explained all my reads".

Do you do dishonest things when you're town, Creature?

[Tohru]

He magically arrived at this readslist on his 3rd post.

Magically arriving with a readslist is my specialty, so dunno what to make here.

There's nothing wrong with magically arriving at readslists. But there is something rather dishonest if five posts later he claims that "I've explained all my reads".

Do you do dishonest things when you're town, Creature?

I confess I sometimes end up lying simply because I didn't remember and didn't bother to check, but not intentionally (unless I had some kind of play to make).

What would you say about someone who lied about explaining the reasoning behind his strongest scumread? Do you think he genuinely forgot?


What's your level of interest in a Succinct lynch?

[Tohru]

I want to see how will Succinct answer to that though.

I think from all the evidence I've seen (160 pages of game) it proves unequivocally and definitively to me that Succinct is guilty. Sure, we could cross examine the defendant, but I'm not sure what more we can learn that we couldn't from 160 pages.

[Tohru]

I'll be back tonight. Hope to get more interaction and engagement from members of the town regarding my push. Hoping for favorable responses.

[Tohru]

Well, that escalated quickly.

I also see two votes on Succinct from the players I wasn't rallying to! I'm so glad.

Elbirn and skitter locked town, then.

2 votes out of 5. Almost halfway there!

[Tohru]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

Mister Reck, there is also more subtext to interactions than MAN VOTE BAD MAN MAN TOWN MAN. I truly hope that this could dispel your Succinct townread that may be solely on the basis of his vote on Flubber.

this is actually a really salient point, i think. like i actually sat back and went "....huh"

i guess what im struggling with is the idea that Succinct would risk his buddy dying in that way. you yourself have said scum aren't going to bus in this setup, so why do you think Succinct is the exception to the rule?

The setup changed to White Flag on Day 3, Mister Reck. Scum could "bus" (read: distance. A bus occurs when a teammate actually gets their head rolled under the bus.) before that.

Scum also had special privileged access to the setup information that Town did not have. Which means to say, they

knew

that a player had to escape even if they played a perfect game on Days 1 and 2. In fact, they did not just know, but they

chose

that player to leave.

This is a very important point, because it means that scum could plan their interactions

since the start of the game

. Clearly they've been doing well, since town as a collective whole was unable to lynch any of the three of them on Days 1 and 2 (and, I thought the lynches were pretty towny and a huge waste, but that's just my opinion!).

Which means to say, Mister Reck, that Succinct's uncanny accuracy on Flubber, was a sham. An act of deception, if you will, meant to convince the rest of the town that he is not part of the scum. And it was a planned, calculated approach. Not good enough to deceive the eyes of Tohru, I might say, but I think by its merits it was sufficient to fool quite a reasonable number of town, which is sufficient.

Now, you ask, why take risks? Two things: 1. It was a low risk, high reward. Flubber's IC claim was made knowing the fact that he would be escaping the next day, and this took advantage of the fact that town did not have this knowledge. Meaning to say, that this event was planned for an unknown period of time. Since the start of the game? Halfway through Day 1? Day 2? This is not important to us, actually. 2. People take risks for the silliest reasons all the time. Why did the 16-year-old boy perform incredibly dangerous parkour/skateboard tricks, just to impress the girl, but risking his neck being broken and hospitalized? Not everyone can assess risk clearly and accurately, without actually putting a lot of thought into it.

In other words, the play was actually a lot lower risk than you think it is, Mister Reck. It was sufficient to fool the town, but it isn't perfectly executed: If you read a bit of my reply to Nimeuh (which is also directed at you, too), you'll notice that Succinct's reasons for scumreading Flubber were non-existent, hinting that it might be fake.

Hello Mister Reckoner,

After some thinking during the day, I felt my explanation above was a bit too long. I've thought about it and came up with an explanation that is way more succinct.

Scum on Day 1 and 2 are incentivized to bus.*

*Actually, only distance. In order to be a "bus", a teammate has to be actually thrown under the bus and has his head rolled under for the kill. No such event happened in this game.

[Tohru]

VOTE: succinct

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

Tohru:

It should send

massive

red flags to you that the

people you've partnered with me

are the ones voting me.

Your solve's wrong.

Fix it.
VOTE: Elbirn

Repeat: The players you called my scumbuddies are the ones

backing you up

.
If I was scum, I'd have a scumbuddy; who'd it be?

I actually don't know. Your scumteam actually played a pretty strong game to obscure that last scumbuddy, I'll say. Credit to your partner.

It's too bad that this setup is a White-Flagesque where it's only necessary to catch just one scum.

I was going to write a wholesome reply to reply to all your posts in general, but it seems that you're around to talk? That'll be cool, but bear in mind that I have no interest in trying to convince you of your own Red PM. We can talk about life and mafia theory and stuff, though.

[Tohru]

Why do you keep referring to your main when you're on an alt? Is your main public? If not, why use it as a crutch when you're caught scum? That seems rather unethical, to me, as an alt myself.

[Tohru]

I actually don't know. Your scumteam actually played a pretty strong game to obscure that last scumbuddy, I'll say. Credit to your partner.

Alternatively, it's because I'm not scum and

actual

scum're taking advantage.

I've found evidence that you've confirmed yourself as scum in that quotewall you posted, so thank you for that. Right now as you're well aware, this is the stage of the rhetoric war where you try to avoid being lynched today such that you can escape immediately after. Unfortunately, unlike most games, this is a final-ultimatum sort of war? I (and town) lose if you escape; but your team loses if I lynch you. Usually in normal games everyone gets two chances.

[Tohru]

For that matter, no, you don't get to ignore these, either:

Spoiler: Quotewall

NMSA
Succint
Elbirn

You seem to think I'm a double-busser.
I generally avoid bussing altogether.

Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would.

You're scumreading playstyle. Look at my name. It's my approach; deliberately minimalistic. I'm also a late-D1 replacement. I average 1 post/day. My game solving's in all my posts; I mostly only quote pertinent content. (Almost)

Everything

holds relevance.

But, I observed his lack of emotion and/or conviction in those posts [compare to NMSA], hinting that it may be indicative of a distancing attempt on a scumpartner who was already under fire (and therefore also the prime candidate to escape the game).

You apparently missed a few posts pushing Flubber significantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.

1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.

You'll never find me active, least of all not now. (Knowing my main'd help know why I'm particularly inactive now.) My gamesolving's in establishing townreads more than establishing scumreads, but I've done both.

I'm aided by people engaging me, but them not doing so's out of my control. If people don't interact with what I post, then I don't have anything to follow through on.

You're making me miss Ank, because she's one of the few who

would

engage me.
Question my reasons for NMSA, question my reasons for Elbirn, question my townreads.

Enter has only been in the game for a fraction of its duration

Actually, this time you're mistaken.
Enter was in the game for 75 pages.
I've been in the game for 78 pages.
Page-wise, we've been around an equal amount.

Succinct is extraordinarily scummy and therefore we can infer that he is arguably a lot worse at hiding his alignment than Enter.

For those who know my identity:

in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.

By that metric, you'd be reading Enter, because

I

am the slot that's better at scum.

As for Elbirn I acknowledged that I am biased against his way of playing.

And yet the thought didn't occur to you you're biased against mine?

Succinct is only ever replying to people

Naturally, because

that's my playstyle

.
Especially as a replacement who didn't read content prior to replacing in.
All I

had

was replying to people to generate content.

Does nobody actually see the problem with being only reactive rather than proactive?

Naturally, because

there is none

.

and never putting forth his own pushes and arguments.

Just because arguments pushed are in walls doesn't mean they aren't there.

Has Succinct ever explained his Flubber scumread?

It's in

the very post you quoted

:

Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore

Experience says odds're slot's scum.

Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had

asked

me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.
Nobody did, but I can't control that, can I?

No explanation was ever given for Flubbernugget and Brigitte scumread.

The Brigitte read was also explained:

Not much time to post, but skitter is a strong townread, and it should be easier for everyone else to see now why Nim and Brig are scum.

Not convinced on Nimueh, but skitter-town/Brigitte-scum, can see.

Context: skitter made this post after I replaced in:

the elbirn wagon was: brigitte, chara, xtoxm, nimueh
my gut says that there's prob scum in the elbirn voters, probably in this order of likeliness: nimueh >

brigitte

= chara > xtoxm

My post was saying, "I think Nimueh's town, and the scum on Elbirn was Brigitte".

Succinct explanations != no explanations.

And I'll requote this until you answer them.

Forgot to add something:

Succinct is only ever replying to people

Naturally, because

that's my playstyle

.
Especially as a replacement who didn't read content prior to replacing in.
All I

had

was replying to people to generate content.

For reference, I've three completed games; all as a replacement; in all, I'm bottom post-wise.

Replying's how I scumhunt.

This I also want addressed.

Um... you do realize that having a low postcount is not the

only

reason you're caught, right?

[*]Your Flubber trajectory is fake.
[*]Your reads are fabricated.
[*]You are going after low-hanging fruit.
[*]You've been flying under the radar, deliberately avoiding drawing attention.
[*]Your predecessor has been guilty of all of the above.
[*]Your position on Flubber is the perfect position that scum would have loved being in.
[*]Your predecessor is guilty of shadethrowing town.

I think you've made a sizable number of mistakes in this game. That's not to say you've been playing poorly, in fact, I think you've played well, because town didn't manage to catch you. So it is just your poor luck that Tohru replaced in and managed to identify your sneaky plans almost immediately, and ruining your narratives and your strong control over the game. With that in mind, my predecessor Ankamius was already playing a strong game and looking conftown even without my aid, so it's not

that unfair[/b] of an upgrade, I feel.

[Tohru]

Oh no! Failed formatting!

[Tohru]

Why do you keep referring to your main when you're on an alt? Is your main public? If not, why use it as a crutch when you're caught scum?

I'm referring to my main when it's pertinent, and to myself otherwise.

There's things which change on alts, things which don't change on alts, and things which people might think don't change even if they do.

I address each appropriately.

My main's not public, but many in the game know it by deduction. (Not hard to figure out.)
I talk accordingly.

So you call upon your main to defend yourself when it's convenient. Cool.

Well, I

think

I may have deduced your main as well, and I do find it rather strange of a defense that "My main is too good as scum to be caught by the likes of you!"

Two issues:

1. It's clear that even if the statement is true, it is clear you are unable to play as optimally as you would be able to on your main, because of the gimmick being a handicap/additional complexity. Maybe it makes you more transparent (This is not necessarily bad!). Or maybe it does impede both your town and scum games, I don't know!
2. This requires a correct assumption of what your main is, but if I recall correctly there was a pretty unforgettable smear video going around regarding the claims of a certain verbose player being good at scum. /shrug

I myself understand the frustration when a perfectly smooth scumgame is ruined by an over-the-top late-game replacement which threatens to destroy the narratives that you have been working over the course of a whole month to build up. It really does suck that I am taking the win away from you. But, this is just a game for all of us to have fun. I'm sure you wouldn't feel good either if you win and town simply goes "well, town sucked, no credit to the scumteam".

I... think I need to think about this.

[Tohru]

Whoa. Calm down, stop town-infighting, and vote Succinct with me.

[Tohru]

I've skimmed the past few replies since my last check in... and yeah. I think town needs waaaaay more help than Succinct/her scumteam does. I thought that it was unfair that I replaced in, and destroyed their impeccably calculated scumgame and denied them of their win, but, I think for utilitarian purposes I'm going to see to it that town doesn't lose this and the toxicity levels in this game explode.

[Tohru]

i'm really tired of the endless debating. how about i 1v1 Elbirn. also going to bed so i'll pick this up tomorrow.

i'd vote Succinct here actually, but i don't know the count.

pedit: it wasn't the Flubber defense that i thought was over the top, it was the weird back and forth on it where you scumread and townread.

don't really want to go into it but your mention about RL Reck, is why i'm really not interested in lynching you anymore. i believe you explanation about the weirdness.

We are three out of 6 necessary for Succinct lynch. Don't worry, I'm keeping very close count.

[Tohru]

Whoa. Calm down, stop town-infighting, and vote Succinct with me.

Skitter is rebuking me for absolutely no good reason and throwing unwarranted shade on Reck and now Chara wants me to feel guilty for pointing this out? Well, fuck that! Between Skitter and Elbirn and now Chara. ENOUGH already!

Yeah, this game has multiple distractions. Vote Succinct with me, let the game end, and everyone breathe a sigh of relief, or if you guys are still feeling bitter, then leave the game.

[Tohru]

Elbirn's "farting noises" with a vote on Succinct are the most town-positive thing anything you guys can do right now, even if disgustingly rude.

[Tohru]

there's a good reason. i'm mad at you for purposefully avoiding a blacklist.

Good and I’m mad at you for unfairly bullying me for no good fucking reason!

Can we focus now on who’s scum here or is that fucking too much to ask?

Succinct is scum! Hello!!!!!!!!

[Tohru]

you're right Reck, it's pretty much the same thing with you and Elbirn. his had more of an impression on me at the time and i guess that's why i thought differently. and that outright defending Flubber is also not really what you were doing, which i why it made me suspicious to begin with.

pedit: i don't agree. there's no reason Flubber couldn't have put a buddy in there to even things out.

But almost 4 hours, sitting at L-2?

You

can't

hammer a player at L-2, only L-1.

4 hours is quite a fast reaction time already given the pace of this game.

[Tohru]

Whoa. Calm down, stop town-infighting, and vote Succinct with me.

Skitter is rebuking me for absolutely no good reason and throwing unwarranted shade on Reck and now Chara wants me to feel guilty for pointing this out? Well, fuck that! Between Skitter and Elbirn and now Chara. ENOUGH already!

Yeah, this game has multiple distractions. Vote Succinct with me, let the game end, and everyone breathe a sigh of relief, or if you guys are still feeling bitter, then leave the game.

I’m going to take a break before I say something to either Chara/Skitter/Elbirn, that gets me in trouble.

All 3 of you owe me a fucking aplology. Don’t fucking come at me again with this garbage, EVER!

Calm down, take a deep breath. Everyone's town here. Let's work together, this is a team game.

[Tohru]

Sorry Tohru but do you really think scum puts Flubber at L-2 and Flubber waits a good 4 hours to IC claim? In a normal game, maybe but how does scum know, he couldn’t have been hammered in those 4 hours?

Flubber didn't "wait", he just didn't check the game. Which means he claimed as soon as he could.

Scum didn't put Flubber at L-2. Tris did. Scum was Succinct who already planned to

distance

early, she had no impact at all on the Flubber wagon. When Flubber's wagon got too big they had to immediately abort.

So, Succinct is still scum, please vote him. You don't want to work with Chara/Elbirn/skitter, fine. Work with me, please.

[Tohru]

This is exactly what I meant about being able to trust conftown VS being able to trust players of questionable alignments.

[Tohru]

you're right Reck, it's pretty much the same thing with you and Elbirn. his had more of an impression on me at the time and i guess that's why i thought differently. and that outright defending Flubber is also not really what you were doing, which i why it made me suspicious to begin with.

pedit: i don't agree. there's no reason Flubber couldn't have put a buddy in there to even things out.

But almost 4 hours, sitting at L-2?

You

can't

hammer a player at L-2, only L-1.

4 hours is quite a fast reaction time already given the pace of this game.

Skitter was still online after 9:00 pm. Not sure if that’s relevant but her Reck shade really pinged me. Then she conveniently does the I’m ignoring you bs, when I call her on it. Then Chara further tries to derail me with a bogus suspiciously-timed guilt trip. Both of them have been pushing Reck at various times too. This smacks of scum!Chara defending his scum buddy Skitter. I think I’ve found the scumteam.

Well, people can have wrong reads. Everyone had wrong reads, that's why town was mislynched Day 1 and 2.

You're lost, I'm trying to help you get unlost. Please, just grab my hand, vote Succinct with me, trust me and hope for the best.

Chara and Skitter are not scum, they're just town who are just as lost as you are and are also just as upset as you are about the state of the game. This is a team game, we need you to cooperate. Please.

[Tohru]

Nimueh can you please help me (conftown who is not bullying you) to vote Succinct pretty please?

[Tohru]

Please stop responding to people who are allegedly bullying you. Listen to my voice, I am the friend who is trying to help you.

[Tohru]

Nimueh can you please help me (conftown who is not bullying you) to vote Succinct pretty please?

Chara is literally trying to derail this game by making false accusations against me. This is absolutely despicable.

And I'm trying to put it back on the rails again.

We are at 4 votes out of the 6 necessary for a lynch. I need you to be our fifth.

L-2, as you said about Flubber, but it's so close yet so far.

[Tohru]

This is why we don't "wait for more information". What do we risk from extending an already bloated and overextended game? Town apathy and/or implosion.

All the information is already available in this game. This is larger than some themes. It needs to be culled. Now!

[Tohru]

Please stop responding to people who are allegedly bullying you. Listen to my voice, I am the friend who is trying to help you.

Like I am shocked. I may have myself been out of line at certain points in this game but this is just plain vicious and completely undeserved.

I agree. That's why you don't respond to people who are being vicious towards you, because whatever you say will not change their minds. I'm already struggling to change your mind about Succinct in an agnostic

game

without any extrapersonal agenda or without any doubts as to each others' alignments. Changing someone else's personal opinion is going to be doubly or triply more difficult.

So, work with me. We will end this game, then you can rest or move on to your merry way. Okay?

[Tohru]

i think i know who both nim & tohru are and tbh im exhausted by it

Hello Mister Reckoner, I really need your vote. With your vote and Nimueh's vote on Succinct we can end this game and everyone can leave. Please help us.

[Tohru]

This discussion has long stopped being about finding scum and game solving but instead extrapersonal and hot tempers.

If you are lost and do not feel that you are in the mood to think, if you are exhausted, or if you are fatigued from the game, please vote Succinct with me and end this.

[Tohru]

i think i know who both nim & tohru are and tbh im exhausted by it

Hello Mister Reckoner, I really need your vote. With your vote and Nimueh's vote on Succinct we can end this game and everyone can leave. Please help us.

yeah if you keep calling me mister reckoner like some fucking weeb roleplayer im going to just vote you out of annoyance

So you're joining the negativity and flame train now?


Yeah, I didn't sign up for this.

[Tohru]

If I am doing something wrong, then fair

Spoiler:

but this is straight up mean spirited bullying and cruel entirely unwarranted harassment. You should feel ashamed. @Chara.

I think I will only play in alts from now on, only way to guarantee I don’t get abused.

You're doing something wrong! You're not voting Succinct with me. Please change that!

Nobody likes being abused. But it's inevitable that in life you'll meet rude people or people who dislike your style of play for no apparent reason at all. The best way to deal with that is to not let their words bother you.

[Tohru]

i think i know who both nim & tohru are and tbh im exhausted by it

Hello Mister Reckoner, I really need your vote. With your vote and Nimueh's vote on Succinct we can end this game and everyone can leave. Please help us.

yeah if you keep calling me mister reckoner like some fucking weeb roleplayer im going to just vote you out of annoyance

So you're joining the negativity and flame train now?


Yeah, I didn't sign up for this.

im trying to be civil but im drunk and im bringing a lot of baggage into this based on who i think you are so i am just gonna leave

You're certainly wrong about who you think I am, but I do find it eyebrow-raising that you have a thing against "weeb cosplayers" as if my replacing-in has made any change on the cultural faction of my slot. Ankamius and his Brandon alt also had "weeb" avatars.

Yeah, I can tell you're drunk. Vote Succinct with me and call it a day.

[Tohru]

This discussion has long stopped being about finding scum and game solving but instead extrapersonal and hot tempers.

If you are lost and do not feel that you are in the mood to think, if you are exhausted, or if you are fatigued from the game, please vote Succinct with me and end this.

Spoiler:

I have been put through hell in the last couple of weeks. Good to know I can always count on the callousness of some people on MS to make that more tolerable.

This is why I'm encouraging you to vote Succinct with me and end the game ASAP.

Your current emotional/mental state (as well as Reck's, this applies to you too) makes it abundantly clear that judgment is impaired and are therefore unable to perform the more mentally-draining aspects of scumhunting effectively.

I'm proposing a very strong and effective solution to end your problems, I really need you to help us with it though.

[Tohru]

If I am doing something wrong, then fair

Spoiler:

but this is straight up mean spirited bullying and cruel entirely unwarranted harassment. You should feel ashamed. @Chara.

I think I will only play in alts from now on, only way to guarantee I don’t get abused.

You're doing something wrong! You're not voting Succinct with me. Please change that!

Nobody likes being abused. But it's inevitable that in life you'll meet rude people or people who dislike your style of play for no apparent reason at all. The best way to deal with that is to not let their words bother you.

That’s hard, when I’m literally being attacked for no reason whatsoever, other than trying to solve a game.

Yeah? Reck's attacking me for only having an anime avatar, so join the club.

Please help me vote Succinct. I notice you haven't voted him yet.

I joined this game to play Mafia not Shrink.

[Tohru]

wow i make a random comment about how you have an anime avatar and i dont like anime avatars and suddenly you and nimueh are SOUL SISTAHS because you're feeling So AtTaCkEd RiGhT nOw

hard pass

within the game, im more likely to stick with elbirn but i would probably hammer succinct because 4150 is pinging me as coming from a very comfortable place and i feel like we're likely to have at least one scum between succinct/elbirn so fuck it

Chill dude. I want out of this game as much as you do. I need Nimueh's vote and you can hammer and we can all live happily ever after.

[Tohru]

I want out of this game as much as you do.

and yet you just signed up for it ...........?

whatever im not engaging this for the time being
it's either fake or completely disassociated from reality and im not sure which

I signed up to play a Mafia game but apparently it's bundled with everyone's sob stories, toxicity, and interpersonal squabbles as well.

[Tohru]

Chill dude. I want out of this game as much as you do. I need Nimueh's vote and you can hammer and we can all live happily ever after.

tris is town so i don't see this ending the game.

It's too bad we're lynching Succinct and not tris.

[Tohru]

oh, i miscounted how many town votes we need on scum. we don't need everyone. was thinking this was mylo for some reason.

10 players alive. 8 town alive. 6 players to lynch.

{Tohru, Elbirn, Skitter, Chara, ?, ?}

[Tohru]

Trying very hard to get Nimueh & Reck to just finish this but instead they flood the thread with negativity instead of just putting themselves out of their misery.

[Tohru]

I want out of this game as much as you do.

and yet you just signed up for it ...........?

whatever im not engaging this for the time being
it's either fake or completely disassociated from reality and im not sure which

I signed up to play a Mafia game but apparently it's bundled with everyone's sob stories, toxicity, and interpersonal squabbles as well.

okay so like last time ill respond ooc but:
when you replace into a game with people you know dont want to play with you under an alt and then get all indignant that people are upset about playing with you when you fail to hide who you are.................dont be shook
also like fr you and nim are the main people FOR REAL leaning into the "woe is me" sob story shit so like maybe take the persecution complex down a couple notches

in any case, i posted a giant readthru of elbirn 2 pages ago and you have yet to actually say anything about it so id LOVE your thoughts

Okay, PM me who you think I'm an alt of and if you're right I'll quit this game and this site right this instant. If you're wrong, I'll just have a quick chuckle, so it's win-win.


I saw that case on elbirn but there were more distracting issues at hand happening in the thread. I think what I have to say can be condensed into two bites, which is: Avoid "TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN" scenarios, and "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

[Tohru]

so you didn't actually think it was a good case?

I don't deny that Elbirn is playing poorly, but it doesn't mean he's scum.

And, he's voting Succinct with us, so, it confirm's he's town. I understand this is circular.

I can appreciate why Reck or in fact why anyone in the game finds Elbirn suspicious, but he is more a distraction than anything.

[Tohru]

Ugh.

All this drama is making it hard for me to focus, so I'll wait until the morning.

Will you help us vote Succinct?

[Tohru]

[quote="In post 4180, xRECKONERx"
Okay.

I was testing to see if Succinct was lying about meta familiarity with me.

Here's where I'm at:
- Succinct linking this game makes sense from a me/Succinct standpoint.
- Succinct linking this game DOESN'T make sense based on who I think Tohru is.

So the conclusion I have is that Succinct isn't thinking Tohru is the same person I am, but linked this game because the person he DOES think Tohru is... is in this game.

So, I guess, Succinct: who do you think Tohru is? Because the person I think Tohru is isn't in this game.

p.edit:
1. im not going to break site rules by PMing you about ongoing game related content (but nice bait, and makes me more confident in who you are)
2. if you could give a little insight into how you think my case falls into TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN and/or glass house rhetoric, that'd be great. because it sounds to be like you didn't actually like any of it? so some more dialogue around this would be a good starting point[/quote]

Well, then I have no idea how to dispel your misconceived notion or ill-founded beliefs, then. You do have my word that I'll quit the site if you correctly guess who I am (that's how confident I am), but, please do it privately (denials are also information).

A lot of the basis for your scumreading Elbirn was his poor reads throughout the game & positioning on Flubber. You yourself misread Flubber, so I was hoping you would have been able to empathize with his viewpoint by changing your perspective a bit.

[Tohru]

yeah sorry! not gonna make a site rules breaking deal with you about quitting the site. but good on you for doing that.

Okay. If there's no way to settle that then let's move on, then. After all, if Succinct thinks I'm someone and you think I'm someone different, at least one of you must be wrong, anyway.

'From your earlier reply, I take it that you're cool with hammering Succinct?

[Tohru]

The players who are not voting Succinct are: Reck, NMSA, tris, Nimueh, Creature.

We need 2 out of the above 5.

One of the above 5 is the partner.

Cool!

[Tohru]

then we get a flip and the game is slow and rather than contribute elbirn goes "man this game is weirdly quiet with a flip and new day start". like.... ok...... then why not give content yourself? you're actively being guilty of the same thing you're complaining to other people about

he also soft pushes on me saying i said "gross shit" but nobody cares so he's just insane. which is funny considering he literally never not once mentioned any of that "gross shit" i did?

he asks ank to spoon feed him a reason to vote flubber. that's highly sus with the flub flip. it's like he didn't want to be tied to flubber but was holding out and making people "convince" him because the longer he dilly-dallies the less likely the wagon gets momentum. that seems like scum hedging his bets.

he goes back AGAIN to ank and says "man idk why flub is scum can you explain lets compare notes". this is like PAGES later and over 24h later.

This part here is "TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN".

The rest of the elbirn readthrough seems like a summary of his ISO rather than an analysis of the subtexts and subinteractions.

Again, I've read the game. I know he's suspect. But the way I see it, elbirn's playing a meeker, less town-portraying, but similar parallel game to yours in this game.

[Tohru]

Looks like everyone's gone to bed. I'll check back here if I can't sleep or something.

[Tohru]

i'm sorry for upsetting you. i didn't realize that what i was saying was hurtful, but i did definitely post while heated and that isn't a good idea. my issues were entirely related to how skitter would not have joined this game (and i don't think she should have) if she had been PMed to /out for her peace of mind and yours. but that is out of game and an opinion and i brought it up at an inappropriate time.

i also may have misunderstood the rules regarding alts and blacklists. i took what i knew from a rules clarification post made by zoraster about it where he mentioned player blacklists and mod blacklists together.

i didn't mean to insult nor bully anyone.

pedit: i'm confident in all of my townreads besides tris, i think. so Elbirn/tris/Succinct/NMSA are the only players i would consider lynching.
i think out of them i like Elbirn as a vote the most.

VOTE: Elbirn

No!! You were townreading Elbirn. Put your vote back on Succinct, you're better than this.

[Tohru]

Spoiler:

Nimueh is FA?

News to me.

*Somewhere Ank is laughing her ass off at this*

this almost feels like a gameo f meta-mafia tryin to figure out if nim is lying about being FA, which would be the best way toconceal her identity if she were FA. idk though, no experience with either of you.

Nimueh is FA?

News to me.

*Somewhere Ank is laughing her ass off at this*

this almost feels like a gameo f meta-mafia tryin to figure out if nim is lying about being FA, which would be the best way toconceal her identity if she were FA. idk though, no experience with either of you.

This line of inquiry is not fruitful, and I'm sorry I suggested who the alt may be, that was out of line. We should all drop this topic.

I honestly don’t have any issues with you at all. I didn’t realize that you thought I was someone you had prior issues with and now that I know it wasn’t me, I’m cool about it.

can you pls vote succinct to end this nightmare? toeuhfehs (not even gonna try to spell it) gave a good enough reason. Mafia is supposed to be fun, and this game has been the opposite. It needs to end, and if scum win, they win.

Fuck no! I’m not game throwing. I want to lynch scum and I’m only voting Succinct, if I’m convinced he’s scum.

Mafia is a team game. I need you to

trust me

and vote Succinct together with us. I've been putting way to much effort and wasted too much of my time because you have been stubborn about protecting Enter/Succinct and hindering town's progress. This has gone on for too long, I am starting to take this personally and beginning to be very upset.

[Tohru]

Yawn, feeling like we're going to mislynch again

Inb4 Succint selfhammers

Who do you think is scum?

I didn't like NMSA's entrance rn. It was something like:

*does a string of posts* AAAH END THIS GAME NOW

You think, we should vote him?

I certainly don’t like him pressuring me to vote Succinct to end the game.

It seems like despite being a "victim" of "bullying" you're really keen to remain in this game!

I hate how you're being so stubborn about this even though it should be obvious that your judgment is mentally and emotionally compromised by the game already. You're no longer in a state capable of playing Mafia but you are still in denial about it.

[Tohru]

Yawn, feeling like we're going to mislynch again

Inb4 Succint selfhammers

Who do you think is scum?

I didn't like NMSA's entrance rn. It was something like:

*does a string of posts* AAAH END THIS GAME NOW

You think, we should vote him?

Nah, I want to see what's going on with him.

put your money where your mouth is and vote me cowards. when I flip town I'll be out of this, and tbh I welcome it. in the mean time, vote succinct, and if he flips town you can lynch me for the loss if you really feel like it.

pedit: look at torueh's posts

pedit 2: yes I would have voted anyone remotely scummy

We’re just trying to figure out the game, no reason to overreact.

We have ALREADY "figured out the game". Now the whole team is waiting for you to take your time to WALK to the finish line!

[Tohru]

I don't hold grudges for long. I can get angry at the moment, but if the other player treats me better like next game, likely I'll treat them better too and/or even pretend nothing happened before.

If only everyone in the world is as forgiving as you!

[Tohru]

Yeah I dont pop into the thread if I dont have time to critically engage and being as I have no knowledge of anything thats going on I dont pop in. I dont know how you think I was online at like 7am when I wasnt, but nonetheless yeah thats a thing that COULD happen.

Are people finna lynch my slot, because

I'd much rather we made scum shoot me.

Can we work on that instead?

How would we make scum shoot you?

(Also the game is nightless currently)

Whoah. . How did I miss this?

He posted this on March 5th. Reads like TMI to me and If scum was going to NK anyone, I highly doubt it would be Elbirn.

Day 1 begins.

Until further notice, there will be no night phases.

makes sense

It's very likely that anybody would miss the small print that there would be no night phases. I certainly missed it on my first skim, it's not crazy to imagine that someone of Elbirn's caliber would have missed it as well.

Stop reading into things that town are very likely to do and start looking at interactions that scum would have done more critically!

[Tohru]

The last scum is in tris or Creature. I think it's a lot more likely to be tris. Who has been playing a fantastic game, by the way.

[Tohru]

Spoiler:

Nimueh is FA?

News to me.

*Somewhere Ank is laughing her ass off at this*

this almost feels like a gameo f meta-mafia tryin to figure out if nim is lying about being FA, which would be the best way toconceal her identity if she were FA. idk though, no experience with either of you.

Nimueh is FA?

News to me.

*Somewhere Ank is laughing her ass off at this*

this almost feels like a gameo f meta-mafia tryin to figure out if nim is lying about being FA, which would be the best way toconceal her identity if she were FA. idk though, no experience with either of you.

This line of inquiry is not fruitful, and I'm sorry I suggested who the alt may be, that was out of line. We should all drop this topic.

I honestly don’t have any issues with you at all. I didn’t realize that you thought I was someone you had prior issues with and now that I know it wasn’t me, I’m cool about it.

can you pls vote succinct to end this nightmare? toeuhfehs (not even gonna try to spell it) gave a good enough reason. Mafia is supposed to be fun, and this game has been the opposite. It needs to end, and if scum win, they win.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Tohru]

The last scum is in tris or Creature. I think it's a lot more likely to be tris. Who has been playing a fantastic game, by the way.

This is precisely why I’m not trusting your reads

.

And no, I’m not going to let you manipulate my vote,

You know I'm not scum, why are you so resistant about town "manipulating" your vote?

You're extremely

selfish, inconsiderate, and in fact toxic.

I'm considering replacing out, I did NOT sign up to play Babysitter or Counsellor or Psych, I came here to play Mafia.

But since skitter and Chara are in fact remaining in the game I will continue to tolerate as well.


---

Nimueh, you are either

with us or against us.

I've been putting extraordinary efforts to reach out to you but you've been shafting me or being extremely patronizing. Your behavior has made me incredibly upset and it's no wonder that other players have been upset at your behavior to the point of blacklisting you as well.

This game has taken a drain on a bubbly, optimistic and full of energy player like me. I'm out of steam.

Either you help us and bring us closer to game end or you continue "solving" your non-existent game.

I want out.

[Tohru]

The last scum is in tris or Creature. I think it's a lot more likely to be tris. Who has been playing a fantastic game, by the way.

I think Tris' unvoting me was rather townie, especially if you consider me the town counter wagon to the scumcinct wagon

Could be. But every player has voted scumcinct except Reck, Nimueh, tris, and Creature.

And I rank the players in descending towniness: Reck, Nimueh, Creature, tris.

Reck is just rude, Nimueh is in her own world, Creature may be scum, but he has his own meta which suggests he shouldn't be, so it leaves tris as the only option. It's actually a huge compliment to her scum game where she's playing this perfectly, I in fact did not suspect her until everyone joined scumcinct.

It

could

be Chara for hopping off at L-1, but I'm chalking that up to bad judgment.

Scum absolutely cannot bus at this phase otherwise they lose.

[Tohru]

Even if Chara rejoined the Scumcinct wagon I need to get a final vote from Creature, Nimueh, Reck, tris.

I'm counting on Reck to help us here and finish this mess of a game. Then, I'll probably won't be playing mafia for a while, again. This has been a awful experience.

[Tohru]

Thank god!

So tris isn't scum.

This leaves Reck Nim Creature [Chara]

If Nimueh's actions in this game were the whole time scum-motivated I'm gonna be so pissed.

[Tohru]

It seems like despite being a "victim" of "bullying" you're really keen to remain in this game!

I hate how you're being so stubborn about this even though it should be obvious that your judgment is mentally and emotionally compromised by the game already. You're no longer in a state capable of playing Mafia but you are still in denial about it.

uh... i know Nim was upset yesterday but i'm pretty sure she can still play mafia.

also the airquotes around "victim" and "bullying"? really? after what you said yesterday? did you actually believe Nim was being unfairly treated or were you only saying that to get her vote?

I conclude that Nim's antisocial and self-detrimental behavior is the cause of her own misfortune.

When a player is emotionally or mentally affected it takes away the capacity to perform well in any other domain. School, Work, Sports, Mafia.

[Tohru]

It's harsh but it's the truth and I want to help Nim but if she doesn't stop her self-harming behavior then the consequences are going to persist.

It's none of my business, really.

[Tohru]

Right now she's in a team of half a dozen other players and ruining the experience for them which is my current concern and what I am not happy about.

[Tohru]

I want to ask everyone, if Succinct does in fact wind up flipping scum, who is his partner?

Dear Nimueh,

Please be advised that if Succinct in fact does wind up flipping scum, the game immediately ends in a Town win. According to the new setup information revealed on Day 3, we only need to lynch one single scum to win. This means to say, we are free after a successful Scumcinct lynch. Finding his partner does grant a sense of satisfaction and perhaps brownie points, but it is not a necessity.

[Tohru]

Finally!

It was sad that I had to knock some hard truths into you before you woke up, but I'm glad it did.

I don't hate you at all Nimueh, I feel that my criticism is constructive. I sincerely hope that you reflect on your behavior and make changes for the better. In 1176 the post you quoted above from Enter, even he made some comments about your personality as well. I sincerely think that it would be helpful for your own growth if you did some reflections.

That's all I have to say on this matter.

Now I'm hoping someone hammers so we can finally move on.

[Tohru]

Morning.

This outcome is acceptable. Could have ended way earlier, but I'm glad my efforts were successful.

Mafia is a team game, everyone deserves the credit: Tohru, skitter30, Elbirn, NotMySpamAccount, xRECKONERx, Chara <------ These are your heroes, not just me. All of them contributed to the victory. I literally could not have done it without them.

The scumteam also played formidably. Creature in particular played a terrific job in subverting his scum meta. Conventional wisdom suggests that he'd make a minimum amount of posts with minimum game-relevant content, but in this game he made an abnormally large amount of clever posts that are out of what is thought to be his usual scumrange. Society looks kindly upon and rewards people who show signs of growth and improvement.

Succinct as a mastermind also did well. It's immediately obvious to me who the main is, so I'm pretty puzzled why anybody has doubt over who they are, but then again, what's obvious to me may not necessarily be obvious to others.

I'm going to read the private topics now.

[Tohru]

Regarding the setup: It is scumsided. The setup is unique in the fact that it has an extremely strong scum "scaling factor", which means to say that the higher the skill level of the scum team collectively, the scum win rate would increase exponentially. It's a swingy, "hit or miss" sort of game.

As a reminder, if Elbirn was lynched today, the scum would have definitely won without a doubt. Do also be reminded that there was minimal resistance from the scumteam themselves... as far as I am concerned, scum Succinct and Creature literally just laid down on the floor and died (without crossing the line as to gamethrowing), and there was still a huge struggle to attain a successful lynch. Imagine if Succinct did fight back, imagine RadiantCowbells in that slot fighting back. It would then be very unlikely that we would lynch him and win even if I did manage to peg RadiantCowbells in a similar situation.

It's a clever and unique setup. I enjoyed it very much. The sad part is that a key point of the setup relied on the element of hiding information from town. The element of surprise. So, it can only be used once, unless deliberate efforts were made to prevent the town from knowing a second time.

Thank you for hosting, northsidegal.

Thank you town on the wagon for the support.

Thank you scum for the respectable game.

[Tohru]

lol calling this setup scumsided

It's scumsided. That's a fact.

I'm townsided. That helped.

[Tohru]

lol calling this setup scumsided

You played really well. It's really a pleasure to see. People who review their mistakes and improve, will be rewarded. People who are closed-minded, shut their ears to good advice, and never improve, well, we saw what happened.

Thank you for replacing in Tohru

Thank you for playing a strong game and making my slot obvious town prior beforehand. It was a remarkable effort.

[Tohru]

Four mislynches in a row is still hard to achieve, even if you somehow manage to save your scummy member long enough to have him escape and manage to break into the towncore the average town should usually have.

This game we had the advantage of an all over the place town, but plenty of them were pretty town however just failed to recognize each other.

Town had no PRs...

[Tohru]

You'll have to forgive me if I snarfed when I read someone saying the game was scum sided.

Ebwop

The only people who said the game was scumsided were Tohru (myself), northsidegal (the really smart host), and Ankamius.

You snarfed at us just because our opinion is different from yours? That's so mean! : (

[Tohru]

i think the setup was probably

balanced

it was just

swingy

an early scum lynch fucks the scumteam irrevocably

it was almost like white flag kinda in terms of swing/balance

(though i do think if it errs in either direction, it errs on the side of being townsided)

i think that's a pretty good comparison (it was even noted in the setup thread that the fact that two scum lynches in the first two days ends the game is really just similar to white flag)

i think it's swing based on the randomization of the alignments – like tohru described, stronger scum players perhaps getting even more of an advantage compared to a regular game and vice versa.

The only sad thing about the setup is that it relies on the element of surprise, so it can't be rerunned.