Open 753: Nomination Mafia [Game Over!]

[chennisden]

Dang; there's a lot to read through.

Volxen self-voting is not a good look, but scum might have nominated him for easy lynchbait.

[chennisden]

I’ve considered self voting multiple times
Why is it scummy in this situation

Isn't self voting scummy in every situation (for normal games)?

What makes it different here?

[chennisden]

Can we no lynch?

[chennisden]

Damn I hate my slot.

Looking through p. 65 and p. 66 I think volxen is actually quite a horrible lynch, his defense that scum want him mislynched is very solid

[chennisden]

I don't think scum would risk wasting their nomination on themselves, so we are essentially picking the "Nightkill."

Question to nominees (sorry if this has been asked before): Who would you want lynched D3 if you were lynched? Who would you want lynched D3 if you were NOT lynched?

[chennisden]

Thomas - Why do you think Shoshin is scum?

[chennisden]

I'm not getting this tunnel on Shoshin, and I don't like how Thomas read the scummy slots as towny.

I am aware my slot is scummy

[chennisden]

can it be this easy shoshin/dennis/scum reading

no; i replaced in this slot hoping for scum

and i was sorely disappointed

[chennisden]

I believe scumreading should be the next lynch, and Shoshin should be today's.

I do not want a volxen lynch at any rate.

[chennisden]

I'm not getting this tunnel on Shoshin, and I don't like how Thomas read the scummy slots as towny.

I am aware my slot is scummy

but u wanna lynch shoshin now?

I don't get

your

tunnel on her.

And out of the three, yes.

Out of everyone, definitely not.

[chennisden]

Alright; this game seems much different from a normal one.

For one, there's the unusually large amount of "personal" influences on this game. For instance, DT's grudge on Shoshin (which seems one-sided - I'll talk about that later in this post), and RC's replacing out.

Although it is understandably annoying to talk about these personal influences, I think we do need to look at them. For instance, I think you are all forgetting or conveniently ignoring (for scum) the fact that Shoshin egged the Wazoo lynch (and hammered!)

I don't think it's out of the question that DT is using their grudge against Shoshin so they can distance as scum. Ideally I'd vote DT for this, but this does not seem like an option.

Also, notice that Shoshin buddied RC (possibly to use him to guide mislynches). Notice that this buddying stops as soon as RC replaces out - which suggests something about meta.

While I realize this is an unlikely argument, we are presented with three bad choices. This is why I think Shoshin is most likely to be scum (as she may have put in volxen as the intended mislynch, and irrelephant to show that "scum chose town.")

VOTE: Shoshin

[chennisden]

I also do think that it is possible Clemency shitposted and generally ignored the game because he didn't want to deal with the AtE in this game, though I am not very familiar with him as a player.

[chennisden]

or, well. that's a slight exaggeration. only gamma locktowned me p1. but i'm objectively the most townread player the entire game, i was in everyone's coalitions all game, i was the first person to start making everyone's townblocks, etc. then i go back to playing on my main and have to deal with all of this crap instead of breaking apart scumteams.

Is this the first time RC has exposed this alt?

[chennisden]

Chem what is your full read list at this point?

I'll put the three nominees in a list with respect to each other, and then another list with everyone.

Nominees

Town:
volxen
Irrelephant
I'd lynch:
Shoshin

Everyone

Town:
volxen
Irrelephant
scum reading
Auro
Shoshin

idk:
Fuscosco
Alonzo

Scum:
Vedith
DoubtingThomas

[chennisden]

Spoiler:

I might rep out this game has been awful so far and I'm just going to get lynched first nomination phase anyway

I might rep out this game has been awful so far and I'm just going to get lynched first nomination phase anyway

You asked me to sign up for this game so I'll be really upset if you leave. Also, why are you running away from the challenge of not getting lynched on first nomination phase? Are you not up to it?

Oh, nice. RC's town, then. Good read on his part.

Hey Irrel, what's your read on SR?

I'm not lynching you today

If I have my way we kill

VOTE: Clemency

And btw the only reason you survive today is that I decide the aggravation of this shitty game isn't worth it

Have you finally decided to play according to your role?

Listen, if you present a case on Clemency, I’m willing to push with you. You seem town to me, if you play like this when you are scum, then props to you man, got balls

What do you make of Clemency's earlier vote on me, putting me at L-2 inspite of townreading me?
He seems to be riling RC up intentionally now - do you see town motivation for that?

Clemency is bad, agreed. DT, not sure. Wazoo, I got a bad vibe from initially but something he said later feels town to me.

Listen, if you present a case on Clemency, I’m willing to push with you. You seem town to me, if you play like this when you are scum, then props to you man, got balls

What do you make of Clemency's earlier vote on me, putting me at L-2 inspite of townreading me?
He seems to be riling RC up intentionally now - do you see town motivation for that?

Just because people have different reads, that doesn’t automatically make them scum.

I’ve seen a few games with clemency and he has his own style, I wouldn’t be eager to scum read clemency just based on his remark, even rc admitted he’s known for his charisma, can’t blame.

As for his L-2 on you, despite being weird about it, he stated it would be for pressuring. I’m fine with that, I believe getting information on you early on is good, because we can confirm both you and Volxen as town or one of you as scum, etc, since you guys know each other the most. If you guys were both scum and confirming each other as town, that would be unfortunate, that’s a relative low probability as well though.

Shoshin is scum

I have nothing further to say until I'm hammered.

I'm not scum, RC. I'm disappointed in you.

Big dump with a broken tag.

~fixed the first quote, ejj~

At this point town RC is buckling.

Potential reasons

Exhaustive tvt with DT or tvs.
Needle from clemency.
Ate from shosh

Aside from mentioning irrell, RC doesn't commit to a read... So far..

lol YOU ARE RC

[chennisden]

Like lol everyone talks a good game about 'town only should want to catch scum' but there is so much more to mafia than blind obedience to a wincon. you have to consider if a risk is worth it.

ex: is leaving volx alive worth the enjoyment of the game and chance he'll be around in lylo to fuck it up?

A:

No, not really.

He's blatantly pushing policy at this point.

[chennisden]

You’re scum reading RC? Anybody would know that after his lynch and his replacement, he is conftown. He was mad that wazoo being a bad townie and so he repped out, it should be obvious. I agree I’m scummy, I’m not as active, mainly because the game is being held hostage at the moment, I can’t push my scum reads because they’re not nominated. For me everyone here is town, there’s no reason for any scum player on that nomination to place themselves in such a dangerous and risky spot. All of them have brains and I don’t see them being that cocky to risk a scum lynch. I told them to figure out who wanted to sacrifice, but they keep on accusing each other while also town reading each other, which is crazy. I’m just waiting for them to decide on a lynch so I can push real scum. As for my activity, shoshin + rc + irrel are enough to fill up 60 pages day one, if I hopped in, this would’ve been like 100 pages. I am usually active as hell when nobody is speaking so I can get things started, but there’s no reason to with 3 people that are posting 10 times more than I would if I played like I usually do.

As for scum reads, {Chennisden, DT} Chennisden because he’s clem’s replacement and he was horrible on that auro vote as well as the RC push. DT because he went from a super active player to now popping in at random times, basically just shooting for a participation trophy. I do believe this lack of activity comes also from his feud with RC and he wants to slip under the radar after accusing a slot that eventually became conftown.

Vedith, get your reads up, they are yikes

oh ty for scumreading me based off of my slot

tbh i scumread this slot when i first read through his ISO; i prefer scum but was disappointed with town

Also, more importantly, you can push your scumreads during Nomination Day.

[chennisden]

You can't get them lynched today but you can help contribute to it tomorrow. So saying that you can't push is false.

[chennisden]

There is no way Irrel kills themself as scum.

Please dont lynch irrel.

[chennisden]

If Shoshin flips town we sheep her. If she flips scum then we got scum.

[chennisden]

we can make a case for auro/shos

Was this intended for the scum PT?

Fun stuff.

considering you were on your fucking back and I,

I

spared you you could not say stupid shit

you,

you

spared her for town cred

when it's very likely all 3 noms were town

[chennisden]

i showed up now because i had other obligations.

[chennisden]

Irrel died so that you all sheep my reads. Please vote Fusco. Let's not drag this out.

fine

VOTE: fusco

[chennisden]

shoshin; gun to your head who is scum #2

[chennisden]

Hi; why am I self-voting?

[chennisden]

also UNVOTE: because I don't want to self lynch

[chennisden]

VOTE: Vedith ballsy of you to self-nom when you think nobodys paying attention

[chennisden]

holy butt

would I as scum self-nom? no way

and if I was dumb enough to self-nom I'd self nom with a scumbuddy to get them towncred

who needs towncred? sure seems vedith!

reason why shoshin isn't the scum; she ain't trying to kill town rn!

[chennisden]

UNVOTE:
Had states mathcounts today and was busy - will read

[chennisden]

If I don't die now, I'll die sometime more important. I do believe Vedith is town; I express reservations about Shoshin.

If nobody objects, I intent to hammer.

[chennisden]

And by the way @Chennisden, what I said to Vedith applies to you as well if you are thinking about self-hammering. If you are town you shouldn't self-hammer unless you are 100% convinced that both Shoshin and Vedith are town.

I've been getting more convinced as I ISOed both of them. I will let you know who I want lynched soon.

[chennisden]

Reads - town
auro, vedith, shoshin, volxen. If one of them is scum its Shoshin.

Alonzo is lean town.

PoE DT and Scum are scum. They've also seemed scummy, especially Scum reading.

But getting shoshin lynched isnt gonna happen and will only cause more discord the next day.

Anyone who wants to feel free to hammer now

[chennisden]

If Scum reading was town here he would be in the pool with me and someone like Auro or DT.

Volxen has already been in the pool and is under majority of radars.

Chen being in the pool with me and Shoshin as town makes sense.
Me and Shoshin argue the day, one of us gets lynched and Chen gets credit for being in a pool.

I originally wondered if Shoshin was going to push me for the hammer today but that didn't happen so overall 2 Scum in the pool with me makes little sense.

Vedith, you're just swinging at everything you can to get me lynched. Other than me coasting shoshin (which has been refuted with my vote) you have nothing on me.

Get to lynching real scummies, because you're plain wrong about my alignment.

Well I'm voting Chen and you also think that's Scum.
So surely I'm doing something right in your eyes here?
What's your argument again?

No, I don't think you'd be dodging all my questions about reads as town Vedith. It makes all your reads seem faked.

If you know my Scum meta you know I answer as Scum. I make cases as Scum.
You know that if I'm Scum here then there's actually a high chance Chen is Scum too.
And if I'm town here, there's still a high chance.

But that's only if you know my meta as well as you are pushing.

@Vedith, why do you think that I am scum? You’ve been talking about me being scum since day 2 and I’ve yet to see you put forth any sort of logical argument as to why you think that I’m scum. I think I was fairly towny on day 2, and beyond that I’ve explained numerous times why I was by far the most at risk at self-nominating compared to either of Shoshin or Irrelephant. You don’t even seem to read any of my posts and you keep talking as though me being scum is a foregone conclusion from your point of view. I would at least like to know why that is, because if you are town you seem to have zero interest in actually sorting my slot.

Not only have I answered this for others and yesterday several times I've also said that I'm not directly Scum reading you.
I made it clear that you had the highest chance to flip Scum 2 days ago, I never mentioned you yesterday and today I am saying Chen and Scum reading are Scum.

I have said Alonzo, DT and Auro are town.
So that leaves you and Shoshin

The thing I don't understand here Shoshin. You're playing as giving up and yet Chen is a Scum read to you?
Why is lynching Chen over me that bad if you can just vote me tomorrow?

UNVOTE: Chen
Standard Friday night busy won't be on until tomorrow properly

I changed my mind and think Chen is town.

While there might be some bits and pieces of Vedith that are scummy, his ISO overall is town. What he's been saying has a clear town motive (lynch the scummy player who replaced into the scummy slot) and some of what he said about me isn't wrong. Scum reading weirdly pushes Vedith which I don't like (though this could be a town thing too; see his first town game). Vedith questions Shoshin about something that might've just slipped under the radar otherwise. Also, he demonstrates a willingness to accept he is wrong, as seen when he realizes I am town

[chennisden]

chennis, vote shoshin

I'm having some reservations about Shoshin being town. Since I know for sure I'm town,

VOTE: Shoshin

I still believe I am the best lynch today; just less so.

[chennisden]

Also vedith tryhards as scum; have you seen his "analysis" in Mini 2057 as scum? I say "analysis" because it was fake.

[chennisden]

I told you to lynch me yesterday; this slot is the worst out of the three to go to LyLo with.

[chennisden]

see above.

[chennisden]

you couldve hammered me

fuck

i shouldve hammered me

[chennisden]

uh why are we voting ANYONE at this point

[chennisden]

scum can win right now

[chennisden]

assuming scum reading isnt scum

[chennisden]

Auro, are you really willing for day to end so fast? If Shoshin was scum and scum reading was town, you just enabled a quick hammer.

[chennisden]

And who's the third, if not you? By your PoE, it should be you, because you tr both me and chennisden and you're the only one that's off-wagon besides me and him.

@chennisden What's your opinion on all this?

my opinion is we should stop voting people >:(

[chennisden]

If scum reading is town then both Shoshin and Auro are scum.

[chennisden]

If Shoshin is town then scum reading is scum.

[chennisden]

Shoshin and Scum can't both be town or the game would've ended.

One of you is scum.

[chennisden]

BoP says that you wouldn't let us PoE so fast. This might be a bus.

[chennisden]

You two can't both be town by mechanics. I doubt you would let us figure that out on accident; there is some reason that either scum Shoshin or scum SR wants us to know that we must lynch among Shoshin/SR today.

[chennisden]

"Mechanics" i.e. scum would've killed you

[chennisden]

Ok two possible cases here:

Shoshin scum. Shoshin realizes that she is townread much more than SR is. She saw an opportunity to take the 1v1 and potentially win the game.

Scum reading scum. SR may have done this on accident.

If both of them are scum, this is a clever bus.

[chennisden]

Note: In the case both of them are scum, the other could've claimed this fact for towncred if I didn't point it out

[chennisden]

ops

but everything mechanical is still true.

[chennisden]

Yeah. It's a calculated risk - I wondered if it's safe to, reasoned that in a 1v1 between them I'd go for SR - are you seriously considering the possibility of Shoshin scum and SR town?

Lack of quickhammer should suggest he's scum by now, no?

See this.

To be safe,

I declare intent to L-1 Scum Reading.

[chennisden]

If Scum is town then auro/shoshin are scum.

[chennisden]

I'd like to hear other opinions before doing so

[chennisden]

If I don't hear anything in a while yes I will vote. But I don't want to lose LyLo to impatience.

[chennisden]

shoshin+auro is very unlikely, compared to SR scum.

Also Auro is likely town by mechanics AND play.

[chennisden]

this is exactly how scum played as town last time. he makes me want to scum read him so much; but this isn't an unfamiliar feeling

scum, if you're town, death tunnel shoshin RIGHT NOW. or we're going to lose.

scum, if you're scum, then

[chennisden]

Wait.

If we have a consensus TR place L-1 on Scum, we can get more info.

If scum was town we'd have lost already (probably). If our consensus TR votes and nobody hammers we have our entire scumteam.

[chennisden]

I recommend not thinking about this game mechanically, Chenn.

From your perspective, it's very likely that one of me or SR is scum. It's still a probability, not a confirmed fact.

You don't need to declare intent at this point. If you think SR's scum, vote him.

By the way, realize that this interaction never happens between scum chennis and scum Shoshin.

[chennisden]

this is exactly how scum played as town last time.

Please say more about this. What's exactly the same?

Last time = last newbie game I played with him (finished).

He makes you
1) want to scum read him
2) push him to death even if he is town

He's also pushing a lot of people and switching

[chennisden]

Anyway if you're town then you know for sure SR is scum.

[chennisden]

anyone who doesn't want SR quicklynched is inherently town

[chennisden]

I'm working something out here, but the idea is that I think if either Shoshin or Auro are scum, they would not need to bus at all to win this game, which means DoubtingThomas is actually a better vote.

But it is guaranteed that

at least

one of Shoshin and SR are scum. If you don't think Shoshin is scum then it must be SR.

[chennisden]

I'm working something out here, but the idea is that I think if either Shoshin or Auro are scum, they would not need to bus at all to win this game, which means DoubtingThomas is actually a better vote.

But it is guaranteed that

at least

one of Shoshin and SR are scum. If you don't think Shoshin is scum then it must be SR.

I'm well aware that at least one of Shoshin and SR are scum. The point is that if I get to a point where I'm confident enough that DoubtingThomas is scum, I can vote for him and start a 1vs1 between the two of us. Then people can choose if they want to sort between {Shoshin, Scumreading} or {Volxen, DoubtingThomas}. If I get to a point where I'm more confident on DoubtingThomans being scum than anything else, it would make sense for me to do this.

Getting info with a risk of insta losing is usually not worth it

But if you consider it worth it, do so

Alternatively, we could have Shoshin do it and then we find 2 scum

[chennisden]

looks like auros done the good work for me
i mean ive seen scum dawdle on the hammers before but its been like 2 days lets hurry it up if so

i instinctually wanna say everyone on the nom yesterday was town
at a glance i wouldnt expect volxen to be scum
making the solve sr/dt/alonzo
probably too easy tho

thoughts in this entrance, anyone?

sounds like something scum says trying to make our PoE bad

[chennisden]

anyone who doesn't want SR quicklynched is inherently town

nvm; i have no objections to forcing the 1v1 with DT

reread the thread and vote DT if you're absolutely confident; we don't have

THAT

much time

[chennisden]

the only way volxen is scum is with shoshin and scum reading.

and this just, doesn't happen.

[chennisden]

Yeah. It's a calculated risk - I wondered if it's safe to, reasoned that in a 1v1 between them I'd go for SR - are you seriously considering the possibility of Shoshin scum and SR town?

Lack of quickhammer should suggest he's scum by now, no?

See this.

To be safe,

I declare intent to L-1 Scum Reading.

I’ve explained this, chennis.

Of course she was the one forcing this battle, she forgot vedith’s agenda was shoshin gets lynched first.

BoP suggests she’s scum. She voted Vedith over you because his reads were heavily accusing me for no reason, he said “meta” but he didn’t explain it. It’s a confbias and you shouldn’t be fooled.

There’s no way this is a bus. Scum!shoshin isn’t that dumb to bus in this position. If she’s lynched, her team mates are fairly obvious. And I’ve pointed it out.

Keep in mind she didn’t touch on my case at all and is talking you into lynching me. I’m not talking you into lynching her, it’s ultimately your choice. Notice the pressure on her, she has to mislynch quickly and I’m her only shot at winning this.

As I said before,

if you're town, please deathtunnel Shoshin. There is no way she is town if you are; I've talked about this numerous times.

[chennisden]

Okay, Volx. I have to deal with your errant mind yet again. Okay.

For starters, when you start making assumptions about behaviors, please make the least # of assumptions possible & choose assumptions that are most likely to apply with the highest probability. Don't make assumptions about things based on lots of speculation & low probabilities. I agree with you that Alonzo's very likely to be town, that's fine. But you shouldn't assume that me & Auro wouldn't bus. We're as likely to bus as not bus in this type of situation & it's impossible for you to know with high probability what's happening from a town perspective either way.

There's better assumptions to be made about this game that will help you solve with higher probability & less speculation. Let's go over these:

1. It's very unlikely for scum to nominate themselves because the risk is unnecessary & far outweighs the potential reward.

2. It's very unlikely for scum to self-nominate a member twice in a row after she almost got lynched the first time, especially when taking that risk is unnecessary to win.

3. In a 1v1 at LYLO, if scum haven't hammered one of the players after everyone has had a chance to post, one of the players in the 1v1 is very likely to be scum.

These assumptions are significantly higher probability than your speculations about bussing. What happens when you apply these assumptions to the game? They point to SR as scum 100% of the time.

I'll apply the assumptions for you so that I don't leave anything to your errant mind:

1. There's at least one scum between myself & SR because of the 1v1 at LYLO.

2. I'm very likely to be town because I was nominated twice in a row.

3. Therefore, SR is scum.

That's the analysis you should apply today because it's the highest percentage lynch. It doesn't require any speculation about bussing. It doesn't even require assumptions about Alonzo's alignment even though we obviously agree on that.

That said, let's talk about why your analysis fails even when applying your bussing assumptions. You say that scum Auro aligned with SR pushes DT or Chenn today. This is untrue because I forced the issue by voting SR. Auro had no choice but to vote between myself & SR, and given the fact that he could hammer me in the event that a townie votes me, he faces no risk whatsoever by placing a vote on SR while waiting to see what happens. Auro isn't clear.

The reason this matters is because it means Auro/SR/Chenn is still plausible. It's plausible enough that rather than vote DT you need to be lynching the highest percentage chance of hitting scum & that's SR in all cases. Again, my analysis requires fewer assumptions with less speculation & higher probability than yours, so please just follow my reasoning instead of allowing your mind to wander itself into making cognitive errors.

There's another thing you're not considering, which is the fact that you're not cleared as town by anyone except yourself. As such, you're not going to convince anyone with your analysis because your analysis assumes you're town, something that none of us know with certainty except you.

For those reasons, you need to be looking at lynching SR today.

So the whole case on me is basically I’m scum and you’re not because you were nominated twice.

There is no reason for her not to deathtunnel you.

[chennisden]

the two possible worlds rn:

Shoshin/xToxm/???

scum reading/???/???

[chennisden]

Tht’s what I’ve been saying, I’m the easiest push.

We are on the same page chennis...Why are you making it look like we’re not?

if she's town she knows FOR SURE you're scum.

[chennisden]

Tht’s what I’ve been saying, I’m the easiest push.

We are on the same page chennis...Why are you making it look like we’re not?

for what it's worth i agree you're the easiest mislynch if town.

[chennisden]

Chenn, why aren't you voting SR? What's holding you back?

the volxen/DT 1v1, if forced, is something I am much more confident with.

[chennisden]

Today’s lynch is in between me / Shoshin, there’s no reason to start any other duels, this is the lynch with the most information.

Look at xtoxm’s scum team. Auro didn’t give any opinion on my slot other than “you’re active lurking” and it’s the sole reason I’m a push this game. I was not active lurking. I’ve explained the situation.

And now he is convicted I’m scum, only in LyLo and doesn’t doubt shoshin at all. What does that say to you?

Xtoxm also has a scum team in which shoshin isn’t included.

you realize you will be lynched over shoshin today?

[chennisden]

Tht’s what I’ve been saying, I’m the easiest push.

We are on the same page chennis...Why are you making it look like we’re not?

if she's town she knows FOR SURE you're scum.

And I know she’s scum for sure, my vote is on her

actually

you also know xtoxm is scum

your best bet is to tunnel xtoxm

[chennisden]

never have i wanted to vote someone so much

while knowing i shouldnt

also scum i am aware

[chennisden]

i read AtE as scum. always.

[chennisden]

barring specific meta cases (which this is not one of).

[chennisden]

Fam, shoshin is the one leading my mislynch. She’s obviously scum for that.

There’s no reason for me to vote anyone else.

Her “Lynch Vedith and then scum reading” was enough of a clue to lock me on her.

Why are you trying to make me lynch elsewhere than what you said we should lynch?

from YOUR pov you should get xtoxm lynched

because there is NO way this town is lynching shoshin

[chennisden]

From SR's perspective, Xtox is lockscum.

It's curious that SR doesn't want to lynch Xtox & that SR doesn't want to lynch DT.

i think my mechanics have locked him out of not being lynched

and i think it's because he's scum

[chennisden]

Yeah. It's a calculated risk - I wondered if it's safe to, reasoned that in a 1v1 between them I'd go for SR - are you seriously considering the possibility of Shoshin scum and SR town?

Lack of quickhammer should suggest he's scum by now, no?

See this.

To be safe,

I declare intent to L-1 Scum Reading.

oh yeah i still got my intent

[chennisden]

Still AtE

Chennis, you’re never listening to me and remember last time you tunneled me to death and I was town?

Maybe this is a time where you should reconsider everything that’s going on in the game, take a step back, relax, and see how much sense makes for scum!shoshin. Look on the posts made yesterday (in game) as well.

uh

what is still AtE? shoshin's play? because no, she's like, using, uh, logic to get you lynched

and from her PoV you are conf scum too

[chennisden]

Still AtE

Chennis, you’re never listening to me and remember last time you tunneled me to death and I was town?

Maybe this is a time where you should reconsider everything that’s going on in the game, take a step back, relax, and see how much sense makes for scum!shoshin. Look on the posts made yesterday (in game) as well.

you are the BEST person to case shoshin right now. to point out the scummy things. please do this instead; if you are town you will be the best for this.

[chennisden]

Chenn, please promise me that if SR somehow gets in your head that you will talk to me about it before you vote.

promised

[chennisden]

by BoP scum reading should tunnel xtoxm if town

scum reading has never considered tunneling xtoxm and refuses to do so even when i pointed it out

therefore he is scum

[chennisden]

stop the AtE.

stop.

im waiting for volxen to give his thoughts, alonzo already said we sheep shoshin today

but alonzo please reread this exchange

[chennisden]

There's no case on me because I'm town.

SR's attempts to case me will reflect his rhetorical skill, nothing more.

And luckily, I'm prepared to deal with that & point out how it's entirely rhetorical.

and i am convinced this is why SR hasn't cased you

[chennisden]

Ate? If anything, Shoshin’s AtEing as well.

I’m stating facts that normally would’ve been obvious if you weren’t confbiasing me.

You read logic as AtE? You wut?

if i had conf bias id have voted you already

[chennisden]

Ate? If anything, Shoshin’s AtEing as well.

I’m stating facts that normally would’ve been obvious if you weren’t confbiasing me.

You read logic as AtE? You wut?

point out two examples of AtE. (I say two because I am already aware of one of them.)

[chennisden]

The whole point of BoP is stating that if an experienced player doesn’t lynch scum, then they are scum themselves.

How would BoP lead me to lynching xtoxm??????

You see, chennis, when you stop making sense, you gotta take a step back and re-think everything.

how do you NOT SEE how xtoxm is confscum from your pov? BoP -> tunnel xtoxm is very valid

1) xtoxm is confscum
2) you can't lynch shoshin

[chennisden]

The whole point of BoP is stating that if an experienced player doesn’t lynch scum, then they are scum themselves.

How would BoP lead me to lynching xtoxm??????

You see, chennis, when you stop making sense, you gotta take a step back and re-think everything.

how do you NOT SEE how xtoxm is confscum from your pov? BoP -> tunnel xtoxm is very valid

1) xtoxm is confscum
2) you can't lynch shoshin

Can you give me a definition of what BoP is for you?

This post is just plain bad. From my pov, Shoshin is locked scum for preparing a mislynch on me since yesterday and for pushing it today.

uh no; this post is OBJECTIVELY RIGHT

if Auro was town YOU'D HAVE BEEN DEATHHAMMERED

(from your pov)

oh wait; you don't understand town pov because you arent town oops

[chennisden]

@Scumreading, Shoshin brings up a correct point --

if you are town, BOTH Shoshin AND Xtox/Auro are 100% confirmed scum from your point of view

.

If you and Xtox/Auro were both town, you would have been quickhammered long ago.
If you and Shoshin were both town, you would have been quickhammered long ago.

If you are town then 2/3 of the scumteam is already 100% confirmed to you just based on lylo votes

. Why are you talking as if you still need to sort Auro/Xtox while simultaneously pushing for Shoshin's lynch? Why are you not equally agreeable to pushing for Xtox/Auro's lynch?

The reality of the matter is that you are currently engaged in two different 1vs1's, Scumreading vs Shoshin and Scumreading vs Xtox/Auro.

what volxen said; chennis/shosin/volxen have pointed out this multiple times

[chennisden]

I will post more later on how I think DoubtingThomas is scum regardless of Scumreading's alignment, even if I reduce the number of assumptions that I initially made.

That being said, @Scumreading are you outright refusing to vote for DoubtingThomas today?

Volx, lynching Shoshin is the play here.

This IS the safest lynch.

Depending on the nominees tomorrow I'll be able to confirm my reads on DT and Auro.

Right now, there's no reason on why I would vote DT. He's done nothing this game phase and it is hard sorting him as it is. I am ten times more confident in a Shoshin lynch and there's no reason to abstain that. This is a SvT and it would make no sense for me to drop this. Shoshin is lockscum and she's the safest lynch, at least for me. I can tell it's hard for people to sort our roles, but the game play until now should give you indications to our alignments. This battle WILL have to take place regardless if we lynch another scum now, but this is, once again, the safest option for me. She's pushing my mislynch today based on Vedith's meta read which was my activity, she doesn't have a case on me, I've made a case on her that she completely disregarded and said I won't comment on it, yet when chennis says "Scum reading, you should make a case on Shoshin", Shoshin said "

If he were to make a case

, I'd point out any rhetorical thoughts", but she didn't. She saw my case . She ignored it and she didn't want to bring the fact that I've made a case on her so that chennis will be inclined to vote me. That's scum af. She's trying to pressure people into voting me, like chennisden, which is the easiest to persuade. She won't try to make you or Alonzo vote me because you guys probably won't and she knows that. She just needs chennis to place his vote and that's gg.

can i just say, no u

[chennisden]

That's exactly what I've been saying, Chenn!

Any objections to me voting SR right now?

[chennisden]

Auro/SR/???

I read the new slot as scummy.

[chennisden]

maybe DT

anyway

VOTE: Scum reading

welp if the scum are shoshin/xtoxm gg

[chennisden]

anyone who is on please post "no hammer" or something like that. if this flips scum this'll help

[chennisden]

You know what chennis, go ahead, place a vote.

Not once in my game were you able to game solve, I don’t expect you to do it now.

I’ve made a case on shoshin that she misdirected from and didn’t comment upon at all because it makes sense.

Maybe you should let Volxen and Alonzo say something before you make a horrible mistake that’ll cost you the game.

You’re taking decisions without people giving advices and that is bad, admit your reads can be bad and wait for Volxen and Alonzo to interact.

You’re being forced into my mislynch, that should be obvious to anyone, no matter how intelligent they are. She’s been telling you to vote me and voting carelessly along with Auro who didn’t give his opinion on my slot at all.

sure

"Not once in my game were you able to game solve, I don’t expect you to do it now." like uh ok, that was against a really good scumgame. anyway lets not adhom

"Maybe you should let Volxen and Alonzo say something before you make a horrible mistake that’ll cost you the game."

I have, numerous times.

"You’re taking decisions without people giving advices and that is bad, admit your reads can be bad and wait for Volxen and Alonzo to interact."

people have given advice and when you said this, volxen/alonzo were able to say some stuff

"You’re being forced into my mislynch, that should be obvious to anyone, no matter how intelligent they are. She’s been telling you to vote me and voting carelessly along with Auro who didn’t give his opinion on my slot at all."

the vote from shoshin was careless and the vote from auro was unacceptable, but hey we lucked out in the end.

anyway; this vote is very justified, scum has had many opportunities to answer questions, give concerns, etc. instead he's been "wtf"ing posts that make perfect sense (such as shoshin/xtoxm confscum from his perspective)

[chennisden]

Okay, DT. I'll try to address your concerns & explain why I'm town. In the process, I'd like you to respond to my questions as well.
I don't think that's scummy so please explain why you think reevaluating reads is scummy. I reevaluate the game based on new information, and in particular Vedith's flip changed everything for me.

Yesterday, SR betrayed an informed perspective about Vedith's flip that never comes from town & I said as much yesterday when I realized SR might be scum over Vedith.

I can point you to the specific posts that betray this perspective & explain exactly why it shows that SR's scum if you need more clarification. Either way, I'd like you to explain why you think changing reads is scummy.

please do point me to this post

[chennisden]

alright i was gonna post this:

"either scum reading is scum or the solve is shoshin/auro/chen which is absurd"

so im pretty sure we flipped right.

[chennisden]

volx you town? or did scum just win.

[chennisden]

DT if you want to respect the integrity of the game try to win

[chennisden]

Unofficial final votecount:

scum reading (4) Shoshin/Xtoxm/chennisden/Volxen HAMMER!
Shoshin (2) scum reading/DoubtingThomas

A lynch has been achieved! Scum reading was...

hopefully scum.

[chennisden]

Knew it.

Xtoxm is not a nom.

[chennisden]

Don't know. Probably not volxen.

[chennisden]

Probably another of these alltown lists (because we've already got the scum by PoE).

[chennisden]

Shoshin/Chennis deathtunneled Scum reading

We are both town.

[chennisden]

y'all wanna towncase yourselves

like uh im town for D5

[chennisden]

Alonzo didn't help much during LyLo - maybe scum trying to go unnoticed.

From my PoV this is better than my own lynch for now

[chennisden]

this setup sorta discourages bussing too.

[chennisden]

No matter who we lynch today we lynch DT tomorrow.

[chennisden]

You're town for the hammer, not scum.

Scum reading could have started a 1v1 with xtoxm. Whether he legitimately didn't know or was doing it as a dumbtell for xtoxm is another question.

[chennisden]

There is literally no reason for scum volxen to hammer SR.

[chennisden]

I read Volxen town, Shoshin town. I am conftown to myself.

Therefore my preferred lynch is Alonzo.

We lynch DT tomorrow regardless.

[chennisden]

I helped push SR's death. I pointed out the inconsistency of his doubt about xtoxm (when xtoxm should've been confscum to him if he was town.)

[chennisden]

Yo DT if you're town talk me out of lynching you tomorrow

[chennisden]

GOT THE JOB

gg mate

[chennisden]

If no one votes its RNG right?

@mod

[chennisden]

hey guys lets not vote

[chennisden]

not voting is funny

[chennisden]

lolll

thatd be funny

[chennisden]

but scums a killjoy

[chennisden]

Maybe we let DT vote first?

how about

no

if DT votes thats a scumclaim

[chennisden]

This is my only scumgame:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78734

[chennisden]

Maybe we let DT vote first?

how about

no

if DT votes thats a scumclaim

He arguably claimed scum the moment that he voted for Shoshin over Scumreading in lylo, and then turned around a few minutes later and said that Shoshin is "probably town" after I hammered Scumreading.

I don't even care about this fucking game. I'd rather lose to scum reading who actually plays like a human being than have a 0.01% chance of losing to scum!you.

You are a delusional liar.

VOTE: shoshin

VOTE: Scumreading

I am pretty sad that you are prob just town here. I would have felt vindicated even if I lost as long as you were scum.

Just lynch me as soon as you can. I will pay the game the rightful effort it deserves from me, but this games just not fun and consequently isnt worth me playing

Let's not get sidetracked by this nomination list.

The scumteam is still Xtoxm/DoubtingThomas/Scumreading. Lynching both Xtoxm and DoubtingThomas is the path to victory.

Yup

that's why I want an RNG lynch because 1) its funny and 2) it does the same thing anyways

DT scum, xtoxm maybe

DT def goes first.

[chennisden]

Maybe we let DT vote first?

how about

no

if DT votes thats a scumclaim

He arguably claimed scum the moment that he voted for Shoshin over Scumreading in lylo, and then turned around a few minutes later and said that Shoshin is "probably town" after I hammered Scumreading.

I don't even care about this fucking game. I'd rather lose to scum reading who actually plays like a human being than have a 0.01% chance of losing to scum!you.

You are a delusional liar.

VOTE: shoshin

VOTE: Scumreading

I am pretty sad that you are prob just town here. I would have felt vindicated even if I lost as long as you were scum.

Just lynch me as soon as you can. I will pay the game the rightful effort it deserves from me, but this games just not fun and consequently isnt worth me playing

Let's not get sidetracked by this nomination list.

The scumteam is still Xtoxm/DoubtingThomas/Scumreading. Lynching both Xtoxm and DoubtingThomas is the path to victory.

Yup

that's why I want an RNG lynch because 1) its funny and 2) it does the same thing anyways

DT scum, xtoxm maybe

DT def goes first.

So you are 100% on DoubtingThomas being scum, and you think the last scum is either Xtoxm or Alonzo? Is that where you are at currently?

More or less, that's where I am.

[chennisden]

The scumteam cannot be SR/DT/volxen.

Volxen would not have quickhammered SR because they only had to get one townie to vote Shoshin

[chennisden]

ima rng

if u unvote we get rng

[chennisden]

VOTE: Alonzo

Not leaving today's lynch to basically confirmed scum.

[chennisden]

hi flavor ! ! ! !

[chennisden]

alonzo i think youre town but just volxen is more town

andDT ruined rng

[chennisden]

Nomination Mafia

Voting and Lynching:

blah
[*]If there’s a tie, I’ll pick the player whose wagon started up first.
blah[/list]

[chennisden]

volxen i dont want you lynched so pls vote alonzo

[chennisden]

dont kill my boi alonzo. he is town

but doesn't killing town play to scum wincon

[chennisden]

Past few pages alone, I never lynch a Chennis here.

FL never reads me wrong

[chennisden]

FL I think Volxen town>Alonzo town

For the record my predecessor found themself scummy and then I spewed myself town in lylo

I hope you can do the same because town FL is my favorite

[chennisden]

DT is pretty much guaranteed to be scum from yesterday.

[chennisden]

beginning ish:

- dt/clem (clem is my slot) spew scum
- auro/volxen/shoshin/irrel spew town
- town fucks up

middle ish:

- volxen/irrel/shosin nominated
- irrel suicides because he is very confident in shoshin town
- people incorrectly think im scum
- vedith suicides, i forgot/dont know why

end game:

- shoshin forces 1v1 with SR
- i push 1v1 and correctly choose SR as the final scum
- DT votes Shoshin, effectively scumclaiming
- chen/volxen/alonzo nomlist

Of note:
- alonzo didnt post anything productive last lylo

[chennisden]

DT/SR hasnt been doing theatre

we just need to solve last slot

[chennisden]

sad to say flavor/dt the easiest solve rn

[chennisden]

i want you to be town soo bad

[chennisden]

Chenn, why is Volx more town than Alonzo?

Because he played the game during LyLo

[chennisden]

Shoshin, DT scum has much more equity than FL scum

Though FL scum still has lots of equity

[chennisden]

Chenn, why'd you townread SR earlier?

He didn't have to defend himself as obvtown and didn't spew so badly until he basically was forced to by you.

Chenn, what are the chances you vote me over FL?

i would never, and you KNOW this.

[chennisden]

I put forth a DT/Alonzo team earlier as the “easy scum team” how is that appealing to Alonzo.

I also have never misread Chennis.

yeah but rn im painfully obviously town

[chennisden]

And your post to Shoshin screams you helping a potential partner.

There’s zero reason for me as scum to push you as the lynch today either, because a green flip just makes me look bad.

And if I were scum,

keeping both Alonzo and Chennis alive is suboptimal

because then I have to convince of a separate scum pairing rather than just relying on one of them, like Chennis.

I am objectively town here, and it sucks for the scum team who had my slot completely pegged as a mislynch.

This is untrue. Volxen/Shoshin are sure of you as scum

[chennisden]

I put forth a DT/Alonzo team earlier as the “easy scum team” how is that appealing to Alonzo.

I also have never misread Chennis.

yeah but rn im painfully obviously town

Well, I’m not saying you’re scum here at all. I’m town, so we just lose, though.

Yeah, what I'm saying is calling me town at this point means nothing

[chennisden]

Only scum doesn't need to read the whole game because they know everyone's alignment

[chennisden]

I suggest you read Day 4 at the least

[chennisden]

that replace out is blatantly scum.

[chennisden]

We lynch Auro tomorrow.

also if DT is town we insta lose

[chennisden]

I'm aware.

[chennisden]

Well, we've got scum by PoE now.

[chennisden]

yeah i read chennisden's games

[chennisden]

but auro's slot has to agree to it and there is no man in auro's slot

[chennisden]

why wouldn't he?

because ur scum bud is gone

[chennisden]

there is no way my scumgame can improve that fast esp since ive never rolled scum

[chennisden]

But you prefer scum, Chenn?

In theory

I dont think my feelings on scum are all that accurate since I haven't rolled scum in a while

[chennisden]

mhm

[chennisden]

your slot spewed scum

sorry about that

[chennisden]

thanks

what's your read on the gamestate atm

rn the game is dragging out sunce the nominees are towny

[chennisden]

we PoEd shoshin/volxen/chen/alonzo town

so auro was part of the scumteam

he replaced out

xtoxm did some objectively scummy things

he replaced out

flavor leaf did some objectively objectively scummy things

he replaced out because he saw the L coming

[chennisden]

uh yeah please stay in the game

its more fun that way

[chennisden]

beginning ish:

- dt/clem (clem is my slot) spew scum
- auro/volxen/shoshin/irrel spew town
- town fucks up

middle ish:

- volxen/irrel/shosin nominated
- irrel suicides because he is very confident in shoshin town
- people incorrectly think im scum
- vedith suicides, i forgot/dont know why

end game:

- shoshin forces 1v1 with SR
- i push 1v1 and correctly choose SR as the final scum
- DT votes Shoshin, effectively scumclaiming
- chen/volxen/alonzo nomlist

Of note:
- alonzo didnt post anything productive last lylo

[chennisden]

I mean

Xtoxm and FL confirmed this too

[chennisden]

Yeah, tomorrow Ank goes.

[chennisden]

Yeah, tomorrow Ank goes.

if we don't get surprised by alonzo flip

[chennisden]

DT has already scumclaimed many times

[chennisden]

DT dont game throw

[chennisden]

also shoshin, please vote alonzo

[chennisden]

VOTE: Ank

[chennisden]

not RVS

[chennisden]

VOTE: Ankamius

VIVA LA REVOLUTION

nice conf scum sir

if you were town we'd already have lost

[chennisden]

Hey Volxen, you town?

[chennisden]

Ank, you scum?

[chennisden]

Same here.

[chennisden]

byebye scumm

[chennisden]

lol

[chennisden]

^pagetop

[chennisden]

anyway, DT next?

[chennisden]

I AM FREE!!!!!!!!

Ank I really look forward to playing with you again. Next time let's be the same alignment.

we were last time but you never posted iirc :V

Volxen spewed town by Ank.

[chennisden]

VOTE: ManateeDude

[chennisden]

This just wins the game, volxen

Just hammer it.

[chennisden]

The whole timing of the replacement heavily suggests Manatee scum as well

Also DT has spewed so much scum

let's just win

[chennisden]

Scum’s repeated rep outs were pretty classless, but I’m happy about the overall result

Agreed. Especially the Auro slot, that's what lost them the game.

[chennisden]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10836864

Calm down because you would've known what I meant had you been town.

You didn't know because you were SCUM and everyone saw that.

[chennisden]

I didn't gutlynch SR btw; I was very aware he was scum and Shoshin was town

[chennisden]

Thanks for staying in the game and not replacing out, Ank.

[chennisden]

I wonder how interesting would it be if ManateeDude decided to choose three townies instead of including himself.

We would've immediately killed him afterwards.

[chennisden]

I thought it was more humane to just end the suffering instead of padding the game out for no reason when there was 0% win chance left

ty

[chennisden]

i think im proud of how i turned around the slot that was set up as mislynch

[chennisden]

gg auro, did not see you being scum until your slipup

[chennisden]

The PT is... informative

[chennisden]

[quote="In post 2600, Vedith"][/quote]
Oh yeah Vedith I'm curious about this.