Non-Reviewed Game [game over]

[davesaz]

VOTE: enigma

[davesaz]

.

?!

[davesaz]

Omg! This game got political real fast!

Did you expect this post to have an effect? If yes, what effect?

[davesaz]

Most posts at the time weren't game related - what makes demonlord different?

What was the point of being one of the main instigators and then calling out the politics as though it were somehow surprising?

[davesaz]

Thats the face Im making when he is asking a question; not about the question, but the style.

Whose style? It's harder to tell when there are multiple nearby questions and you haven't quoted one.

[davesaz]

[quote="In post 66,

Can't work out if town omgus or scum omgus

Could be latter

How confident are you about this exactly?

I mean

Not confident enough to base a case off of, after 3 pages

But I think it's still pretty relevant

What do you make of the vote fail in that sequence?

[davesaz]

I won't complain about that.

But still interested in who the comment was aimed at.

[davesaz]

If you were gonna get me on that, then you would have to get the others to.

You're assuming that the question in 88 is meant to "get" you.

[davesaz]

I don't like the way it went off topic. Partly because I have only the most basic of ideas what y'all started talking about.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[davesaz]

Was Gamma Emerald responsible for it going off topic then?

Directly responsible, no. Indirectly? We'll see.

Seconding a request for davesaz to explain his gamma vote

A necessary part of sorting is controversy. Perhaps it was to see who would ask why.

[davesaz]

.

?!

what so puzzling

What meaning do you see in it?

[davesaz]

Ausuka is a Pichu

Brilliant way to advance the game.

[davesaz]

Gamma, ANARCHY!! is great, right?

I don't see the problem
wagons are good my dude

[davesaz]

Ask me what my Gamma read is.

Spoiler: peek

I don't have one, because she hasn't done anything.
You can see the point of this by reading my iso

[davesaz]

Obviously Pokemon Bow and Arrow are next in line, Gamma. It's so obvious it hurts.

It's kinda hard to vote for more than one pressure wagon, but your ISO isn't any better.

[davesaz]

Ausuka Looks town.

Care to share why?

Why not? The more people diddle daddle the less we get done.

Right approach. A little follow through would be nice. I found the "speedlynch Dave" comment a bit inconsistent with the sentiment of getting things done. Maybe you should try to help inject some AI into the game instead?

[davesaz]

everyone just keep figuring out the game for me thanks

I appreciate the reduction in sheer volume of posts this game compared to previous, but don't think you'll be allowed to shirk responsibility that easily. Kindly pull your share.

[davesaz]

I don't like the way it went off topic. Partly because I have only the most basic of ideas what y'all started talking about.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

dont understand this vote. it was an rvs wagon and she didn tpost anything so why go back?

I'll be happy to spell it out, but this was kinda asked and answered.

[davesaz]

Regarding 248, when I read the quoted 146 I got rather confused because Wilky appeared to be saying in the middle of that wall that light_gansky was scummy but then voted Ausuka near the end for being defensive. Are you looking at the entirety of 146 and +1ing the whole thing, or just the ending conclusion?

[davesaz]

Wow, I never can tell with Elsa Jay how to take things.
Are you trying to bait a wagon? Having fun is understandable, but that seems a bit like an in your face reply.

Pedit @wilky -- hmm, maybe I should read the original 146 then, I was just looking at what was quoted.

[davesaz]

Oh I see what happened, got the nesting levels mixed up in my head.

[davesaz]

The whole resistance to leaving Gammas wagon makes me think scum are trying to sit comfortably within that for as long as possible. I'm at work right now so dont have the time to figure out who the scum is within the wagon though

Do you have some reason to think gamma is town?

[davesaz]

Top poster 20 minutes into joining the game

I am Locktown

Yeah, no.

Spamming =/= town. In fact, if it weren't for you replacing in and catching up, I'd say you'd be pretty scummy for trying this tactic.

You know what, fuck it, even for a replace in that spam seemed like you were trying to seem overly towny.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

I purposely left the locktown comment alone to see who else would be with me on thinking it's BS. Happy to see at least someone isn't going to fall for it.

[davesaz]

the gamma wagon is confusing; i understand that it's a way to get the game started but i'd think it would be more prudent to vote for me or light or vedith rather than gamma.

Why would gamma be a bad choice compared to the other wagons?

[davesaz]

i think maria is town

Don't encourage this kind of behaviour.

Don't encourage what? Let's look at the bigger quote.

Thought we'd be out of rvs by now. Game is remarkably slow for a large.

I know right? It's quite refreshing. Anyway
VOTE: Vedith
Free towncred if anyone can spot the same glaring scumtell I saw.

i think maria is town

Don't townread people for saying they see a scumtell? Or is there something more to what needs to be discouraged here?

[davesaz]

That question's more to Vedith though.

[davesaz]

Sure, here's what I have, or at least what I can remember. I'm not very good with early reads so it's all pretty weak.

Scumreads on Gamma, Ausuka, Vedith, but they seem unlikely to be aligned.

I agree with Sabrina about postcount being NAI. Claiming "lock town" from being top poster is a big turn off for me. Your posting does seem towny in places though.

Wilky seems towny. Elsa seems to like playing with matches but it's NAI given her history. I appreciate Clemency being more chill with posting but wonder what prompted that change, wanna keep an eye on him.

Wisdom is engimatic but that's style not alignment. Doubt I'll be able to get a good read there until later.

[davesaz]

sabrina doesn't have any content except for uh fighting with someone for being rude and pointing out an obviously "bad" post and continuously using that to call me out but not really progressing with reads

Oh, just to be clear, I'm talking about my read on you there and how the locktown comment bothers me (but doesn't stop from leaning you town anyway). Sabrina's in the haven't seen enough to really have a read on her category.

[davesaz]

I'm pretty well beat from working a fundraiser this morning. Might get a second wind after dinner, or might drop into food coma for a while.

[davesaz]

Dunn, are any of the people I'm scumreading doing towny things? I'd be happy to hold a conversation on it.
If someone changes their posting completely from game to game, isn't it wise to keep an eye on them?

I agree on Enigma. I would have said so first if I wasn't eating dinner.
Dinner was beef noodle soup, and it was great.

[davesaz]

What do you make of Starwing?

[davesaz]

@Dave ]If you believe Gamma, Ausuka, Vedith are all scum, but are not aligned, do you then think that the way the game was destined allows for the mafia roles to not be allied?

No, it means that I think one or more of those scumreads is likely to be wrong but I don't know yet which one(s).

[davesaz]

It's possible they are all wrong.
Early in the game the best indicator of scum is "not town", which for me is people who are not doing anything to determine alignments.
Later in the game, other indicators become valid, like actions which try to manipulate people. (Not saying this

can't

happen early, but in my experience it's less likely.
Over the span of 2018 into 2019 I've noticed a tendency that the people I identify as not scumhunting tend to be scum > rand. So I'm willing to go on that as an early indicator.

On this indicator overnight:
Sabrina -> more scummy
Starwing -> a little more towny (BTW not being listed on my reads post doesn't mean invisible, it just means I hadn't formed an opinion yet)
Wilky -> +town by attitude, = by content

On Elsa Jay -- Would be scum by the early game metric, but there is a meta read that she tends to do randomly outlandish things. By that meta read she's trying to do something, but it's hard to pin down exactly what.

Oh, and don't remember if I've specifically mentioned this, but Dunnstral gets town points for appearing to try to sort. Meta on him for me is to overlook incorrectness and focus more on what he's trying to accomplish.

[davesaz]

vote: ausuka

your face is forced

stop. we should focus not on these little jokes but on the game.

Ignore the follow ups to my vote on ausuka. Focus on that. was her vote good? was my response good?

is my vote on light good? Lets all make 2 competing wagons. Mine's better, go!

VOTE: light ganski

enh ausuka is an alright wagon. What do you have against progress?

This is a really weird progression. Also doesn't seem to be game solving, more like just commenting, which gives scumpoints on both metrics I pointed out earlier.
I'm getting too many scumreads. The game has too little content.

[davesaz]

^ Fuscosco is voting light_ganski with Ausuka, but then advocating Ausuka's wagon.

[davesaz]

What does that mean?

[davesaz]

Have you been reading the game?

[davesaz]

You must have a really high standard if everything you have seen is marginal.
What do you need?

[davesaz]

My Gamma read is precisely about holding back on content. Why is it better to vote a shorter wagon than a longer wagon in that case?
I don't disagree on some of the others you mentioned having low content.
Are any of the people you suggested wagoning scummy to you? You even included yourself in that list. It sounded to me like it was an "anyone but Gamma" type list which seems strange at this point in the game.

[davesaz]

Accidental pagetop, that was in reply to Ausuka.

[davesaz]

This reminds me, dont you have trouble sorting me? What makes you so confident this game (because that's how your read on me feels)?

I have trouble sorting you when you post AI type things that are based on dubious logic (difficulty separating wrongness from scumminess). In this case you haven't been posting AI at all (logical or not) which is completely different.

[davesaz]

Eww, sheeping wisdom is one of the least wise things I can think of.
Even though it is a decent vote given Enigma's ISO.

Gamma did something vaguely resembling sorting. Will it be a sustainable path?

[davesaz]

Thomas can be clever,
He knows that antagonizing everyone is less than useful.
So if he's town,
He won't do it too much.

Sabrina wanting Thomas gone, is rather obvious. Evil often likes to be sneaky. That's not sneaky.

These are insightful but perhaps a little short sighted.
Doing something that scum shouldn't / wouldn't do is a good way to hide in plain sight.
We may think they are more likely to be town but shouldn't forget them.

[davesaz]

457 discusses rvs / seriousness, but I don't see a scumread there.

[davesaz]

Enigma is popping in just to look busy

They've dodged answering a question for about a week now

Just not answering, or actively dodging?

[davesaz]

The enigma case is similar to gamma case. Posting but not saying much that looks like an attempt to sort.

[davesaz]

@gamma, yes I'm choosing you to push for content. Don't know why you're taking it personal. It's not like I'm actively trying to get you lynched here by convincing other people. There are several others who fit the same description. Maybe it's even a compliment that I think you will provide content if you're town.

[davesaz]

I was mildly town on Wilky, not so sure with Chennisden.
Starwing looks more town.
Wisdom is explaining more than in the past. I'm interested enough in the improvement to not want to discourage it. And it seems to be town motivated even if I were concerned about the change.

[davesaz]

Given Gamma's activity issue is with moving, I don't think my "pressure" is going to yield anything.
Let's try this for a bit.
VOTE: Sabrina LeCutie

[davesaz]

Yes, the game is boring. Whatcha gonna do about it?

[davesaz]

I'd kinda like to sort some more people with the available time.
But if that's not gonna happen then yeah.

[davesaz]

I don't believe in compromise lynches so I won't be participating in one

Umm, you'd prefer no-lynch? Is there a point to this post other than throwing a buzzword?

[davesaz]

VOTE: Enigma

[davesaz]

I misinterpreted Dunn's post, having forgotten that he was already on the then-top wagon.

[davesaz]

Apparently chennisden is a double voter. Don't think wilky will respond well to a prod.

Confirming I have seen the hammer opportunity. I too am willing to use this tool.

[davesaz]

c'mon it didn't take that long to write that.

[davesaz]

I thought I typed fast but Elsa's post still got in first.

[davesaz]

Rough couple days at work. And a whole lotta stuff went down.
VOTE: Sabrina
I’ve thought she was scum all along. Kinda agree with wisdom that rolestopper is scum more often than not but I’d rather lynch an actual scumread of mine.

[davesaz]

Oh sorry on mobile so harder to keep count. Thanks.

[davesaz]

We're lynching the most obv town in the game holy shit.

To borrow a phrase from someone I clash with a lot -- it's really shallow to think that someone must be town if they're in-your-face anti-town.

[davesaz]

pedit: When have I ever said that's the reason I tr her? Because I didn't

Fair enough -- why do you tr her?

[davesaz]

I think that tunneling DT and refusing to give any other reads is scummy. If town, then anti-town.
So it sounds like that observation was accurate on substance, just not on your intent?

Pedit: so you're all back to scumreading me for being myself. Nice.

[davesaz]

replace out