Mini Normal 2066: Catloaves [Game Over!]

[Ankamius]

boop

[Ankamius]

ngl I really don't understand why roster and not_mafia are the top two lynch candidates today

[Ankamius]

I don't understand why scum!rosterfoster would be pushing so hard for Eragon to die when he's being defended by at least two slots for the same reason that everyone else thought he was scum for it

like I don't exactly have the credibility on alacrity that I do on this account but the fact that a widely townread slot was shielding him so hard would make it look a lot less viable as an option for a push.

[Ankamius]

it just doesn't make sense for him as a scum strategy and I'm struggling to see him going into day two pushing that much activity into the thread only to get hard stuck on a dead end push while the game crashes around him

that's beyond shitty scum play if it's scum play at all.

[Ankamius]

maybe I gave nomnomnom too much of a pass earlier in the game

[Ankamius]

their associatives with grandwazoo are actually pretty bad now that I look back at them

[Ankamius]

nom's voting history on the lynch wagons are really bad too

the dissonance though is that both nomnomnom and grandwazoo were voting me for a significant chunk of the first day and I'm not entirely sure that would be something they'd want to do unless they specifically wanted me gone for whatever reason without wanting to spend a nightkill on it, which doesn't really make sense with my reads and how I was playing up to that point.

although to be fair, the bite in her push did fade over time on day one despite not really changing until it was proven wrong?

[Ankamius]

ehhhh

maybe it isn't locke

[Ankamius]

tbh I just need one more confident townread and this game is literally solved

[Ankamius]

VOTE: nomnomnom

while I ponder things

I think I want to double check penguinpower next

if I can be confident that penguin is town, then this game is locked.

[Ankamius]

Kinda interesting to me that you shaded my deductions while basing your own around a singular point in the game

But sure I'll look anyways when I can

[Ankamius]

there has to be a thought process behind what somebody does, locke

I'm not seeing a consistently scummy thought process behind what roster is doing, it makes a lot more sense from town to me :V

[Ankamius]

Kinda interesting to me that you shaded my deductions while basing your own around a singular point in the game

But sure I'll look anyways when I can

That's not what I was saying.

I'm saying that you are missing critical elements for your deductions. That's fairly obvious when you do not understand why Roster and N_M are put on the forefront today.

I don't understand why it's those two because roster is pretty town and n_m is an easy scumread to have

[Ankamius]

ngl I really don't understand why roster and not_mafia are the top two lynch candidates today

because their weird-ass hammer interactions

with NM voting "missing child", counting for milk

and also Roster hammering based off of that

I really don't see how that makes roster-scum likely at all

regardless of alignment, I'd bet that was him seeing the momentum and hopping on without even realizing it was a hammer vote

[Ankamius]

tbh I just need one more confident townread and this game is literally solved

who is your towncore rn?

you + roster

[Ankamius]

Kinda interesting to me that you shaded my deductions while basing your own around a singular point in the game

But sure I'll look anyways when I can

That's not what I was saying.

I'm saying that you are missing critical elements for your deductions. That's fairly obvious when you do not understand why Roster and N_M are put on the forefront today.

I don't understand why it's those two because roster is pretty town and n_m is an easy scumread to have

Would you mind pointing out to me why roster and nm are town? Specifically.

roster is not playing to a scum win condition
not_mafia is the black sheep of this game

[Ankamius]

Sorry pengu

I really don't think focusing on scumreads is good for today so

[Ankamius]

I'll get to that later pengu

Can I get your opinion on what would town have for a 2scum, 2scum and traitor, and 3scum?

This is important.

[Ankamius]

Power

[Ankamius]

for 11p sorry

[Ankamius]

On second thought, I don't have the energy to fight this

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Ankamius]

Because it's easier for me to read into the game when I have an idea off what the scumteam looks like numbers wise

[Ankamius]

I wanted to know roughly what towns current flipped power level would equate to it

[Ankamius]

Idc either way

[Ankamius]

Because you are the most likely person here to have an idea about that afaik

[Ankamius]

I'm a VT so assuage your fears

[Ankamius]

this massclaim thing needs to get rolling if you're going to get it done

so there's really not much point in waiting for me since it should be kinda obvious I'm a VT anyways if you pay attention to how I played d2

SHRUG

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Locke

I feel like sheeping urap2

[Ankamius]

or maybe I should clarify

I feel like sheeping what I think urap2 would have done n1

[Ankamius]

yes

[Ankamius]

@Mod: V/LA until 4/27

it shouldn't drastically affect my ability to be here but I can't guarantee I'll be here mentally

Noted!

[Ankamius]

Why did you block the two of us?

[Ankamius]

so you were looking for targets to both block and protect?

[Ankamius]

Idk if I buy that but it's self resolving so I'll let it go for the day

[Ankamius]

Use your shots to narrow down the lynchpool, not block town

[Ankamius]

Blocking the townread slots gives no info because they're just as likely to be protected than blocked

Plus as was beaten into my head d1, it's likely there's only one group scum left, so blocking people that won't be night killed is as good as a cop check

I think you are competent enough to understand this and under this light, blocking nom and myself is really bizarre

[Ankamius]

Nomnomnom was widely townread n1
A lot of people considered me conftown n2

That is enough for us to be potential nightkill targets those nights if we are town.

[Ankamius]

Either way

You are self resolving because you will be caught very shortly as scum unless nom is also scum, which is only a problem tomorrow.

I think Eragon is the traitor if there is one at all, which doesn't fit right with you being scum.

The gamestate still says you are likely town, I just find the claim to be really weak.

[Ankamius]

So you think there are two groupscum?

[Ankamius]

I really don't think PPtown lives to tomorrow after that claim

Nobody's play here is worth killing over the jk

[Ankamius]

if I die, then what.

[Ankamius]

mmmmmmmm

[Ankamius]

it's not as easy as locke+roster is it

[Ankamius]

VOTE COUNT 1.14

GrandWazoo

(6):

PenguinPower

,

Elsa Jay

,

u r a person 2

,

Alacrity

, nomnomnom,

themilkcartonkid

LYNCH

Elsa Jay

(2): Not_Mafia,

GrandWazoo

Eragon

(1): Locke113

Not_Mafia

(1): rosterfoster

Not Voting

(1): Eragon

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to lynch.

Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-03-31 11:00:00)

lol

this says a lot

[Ankamius]

locke + roster have the most suspicious d1 movements

[Ankamius]

VOTE: rosterfoster

[Ankamius]

gamestate read

if I literally just assume you're town, that's the exact team I come to

[Ankamius]

the specific flips we have make it really obvious that scum weren't prepared to bus grandwazoo.

I strongly believe they had a defensive strategy and tried to mitigate the damage rather than try to outright save him, which makes a lot of sense with the sudden wagons on both myself and urap2 once the wagon on grand flared up.

[Ankamius]

No that conclusion is wrong, day 1 is actually really weird now that I take a second look at it

It might be more productive to find town than scum initially

[Ankamius]

(Locke/roster) + (eragon/not_mafia)

that's my answer

[Ankamius]

apply it to my general townreads and it's just locke+not_mafia

but I'm not entirely sure both were right(?)

[Ankamius]

idk just a glance at locke's ISO makes me really doubt that slot's town lol

[Ankamius]

like

he was very inactive in access point but he was pretty blatantly playing to a town win condition when he was actually here

I don't see similar play here and the way he handled GW was scummy as hell

[Ankamius]

locke + roster have the most suspicious d1 movements

I don't know how to feel about the implication I've managed to play scummier than the renowned quickhammerer this game

Also before I place my vote on N_M, is there much point in us dragging this day out much longer or does anyone, *cough* Eragon *cough*, want us to wait longer for more talking back and just arriving at basically the same scumteam that was put forward at the start of this day?

should probably point out how scummy this post is too

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Locke

[Ankamius]

you have done nothing in the past week

[Ankamius]

Roster you don't trust my reads but your PoE is the same as mine minus you

[Ankamius]

What?

[Ankamius]

Is it worth bothering to case

Because I'll outright case Locke if I have to but I won't bother if everyone is going to be like nom

[Ankamius]

why can't it be both?

[Ankamius]

already sounding like I'm watching locke endgame this :V

[Ankamius]

actually you know what, fine

sheep me tomorrow on a townflip nom

VOTE: not_mafia

[Ankamius]

locke is obviously scum, roster.

[Ankamius]

I feel like this game got so heavily derailed by the day 2 bullshit that everyone just kind of locked on to their pet scumreads

[Ankamius]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10879177

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Ankamius
labrat's push for insomnia felt genuine and I've liked Ankamius so far so I'm fine with this.

Also I believe Insomnia, did you suggested vigs shoot me? Not inherently opposed to idea but what information would it really give town?

Locke, are you fine with Rui being sent into the AP today?

Yes, I think I mentioned that Rui was part of my D3 pool during D1 though I'm not sure. I don't really care that much whether its D2/D3 so I would be fine with APing Rui if that appears to be the majority opinion today.

Hmm, why haven't you wanted to be AP'd? Locke and DT.

:lol:
1st. I had no delusions that it would be even remotely a possibility in the first place
2nd. I have 0 experience with this setup or a setup like while the game has been filled with people with a much better grasp of not only mafia in general but this setup specifically
3rd. If there is a mafia in the pool by the end of D3 and I was AP'd, we lose. I'm not a strong enough mafia player to put the responsibility of winning the game for the rest of town, only one of whom would be there to help me, on my shoulders

This is Locke genuinely believing what he is saying despite being very inactive.

He's playing to a town win condition.

[Ankamius]

look at all of Locke's posts and tell me what sorting he has done.

I can guarantee you that you will find it to be basically nonexistent other than sheeping onto the popular wagons of the day on day 2 and 3

the rest of his posting is just random questions that don't lead anywhere and look busy

his response to me initially pushing him is "why are you finding me scummier than the renowned quickhammerer???" which he knows is NAI

he's not sorting
he's not responding to pressure in a town way
he's COASTING

[Ankamius]

that quoted post is from TOWN locke in access point btw

[Ankamius]

my biggest problem is that I just don't trust your game solving. You jumped to different votes through the course of today, and the worst is that your opinion on Locke has rapidly changed two times, from scum to "not scum, nom must be scum instead" then back on Locke again. That's just not good at all! We can't vote Locke here in these conditions!

that's called sorting, nom.

if you haven't realized, I've been a lot less 'around' since day one.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: not_mafia

[Ankamius]

Scum is either Eragon or milk or both. Despite claiming intent to join the wagon multiple times and saying he scumread GW, Eragon didn't put GW at L-1 nor did he hammer. Seen scum pull this trick before were they claimed intent to hammer without much time left on the clock to try and wait out the timer. And the whole GW pushing the alac wagon as an alternative to Eragon's with some piss poor reasoning, even though he claimed he still scumread Insomnia/Eragon.

Milk did join the wagon, multiple times, but kept trying to undermine it or start different wagons to draw attention away, such as trying to vote up Alac and The Penguin of all people. Also even when it was clear there was no way GW wasn't getting out of day 1 alive no matter what he claimed, he still tried to use the excuse of waiting for the claim to not hammer, which if he had been let off for, GW could have just never claimed as there wasn't much time left.

VOTE: Eragon

Alacrity conftown. I noticed that town split into pairs. Lock and roster, me and nom, urap and alac, pp and Elsa. N-m grandwazoo and eragon never really had anyone they gelled with. I dont think alac kills the only one who was agreeing with their reads

I'm not sure I entirely understand the reasoning behind most of your pairs tbh. Though yes based off D1, I agree scum!Alacrity wouldn't NK urap.

What makes you think this wagon is led by town, if anything this feels like scum making use of the replace out to get votes of their partner

Feels like a soft-defense to me.

How? This was part of the whole me scumreading basically everyone on the wagon who wasn't n_m

Well then I'm fine with helping start the Insomnia/Eragon wagon back up again, after all my read on GW is mainly based off the possibility of him being Insomnia's scum partner so why not find out whether Insomnia/Eragon is scum first

VOTE: Eragon

‘My read is based on being Insomnia’s scum partner’ seems untrue to me.

Why does it seem untrue when I literally only started looking for other scum besides Insomnia based off the idea that they acted like they might be his scum partner?

Also means Locke/Eragon isn’t a team.

Also I absolutely agree with this, though obviously not for the reason you think

Why does it seem untrue when I literally only started looking for other scum besides Insomnia based off the idea that they acted like they might be his scum partner?

His actions don't make sense to me from a town perspective, especially with his lack of fearing a quickhammer and the fact he was properly scumreading Insomnia. Like this explanation just seems fishy asf to me

Tells me that you had independent from being Insomnia's partner.

How does that dispute me saying I

mainly

based my scumread of him off of the idea he was Insomnia/Eragon's scum parter

Don't misrep me Roster, it was his apparent lack of fear of a quickhammer yet claiming intent to put Eragon/Insomnia to L-1 then switching to Alacrity not just the lack of fear of a quickhammer

And that his sudden switch rather than risk his partner getting hammered is what made him seem like Insomnia's scum partner

Apologies, I very slightly misinterpreted one of the setup rules:

Correction: The Mafia

do

have daytalk.

But yes you might be right that his scum partner did tell him to back off

:lol:

Yes, the guy who led the eod push on scum is scum.

Don't be bad.

Also true.

I’m kind of 50/50 over Milk or Elsa, but Eragon makes sense to be scum off the wagon.

Then join me on the Eragon wagon, we've got cookies

Ok so theres been a lot posted since I last posted so probably gonna multipost a fair bit here, apologies

Spoiler: Eragon

In post 506, ChibiBear wrote:

uhh ok?

isnt this what Roster said?

No, he thought that the scum partner had to be either me or Nom because we were telling him to back off in this thread when if his partner told him to back off, they could have done it outside of the thread

because N_M is in this game :3

Intent to L-1 GrandWazoo

Hammer hammer

I have fire in my eyes

Would it be animal abuse to steal N_M’s hammer?

But if I’m a raven, then how can an animal abuse an animal

:3

Where is this previous explanation about why you didn't want to L-1 GW? Because in between this posts and 909 I see no previous explanation at all

well I'm here and engaged

show me why my locke scumread is wrong.

[Ankamius]

holy fuck I went to the wrong tab

[Ankamius]

nom

do you think that town just loses if town!nm reaches day 4

[Ankamius]

you understand that with a scum lynch, penguinpower becomes a cop, right?

[Ankamius]

I'm looking through N_M's games atm

[Ankamius]

lol he's not tonereadable

[Ankamius]

tbh

I'm not seeing the scum case on him at all actually, it all looks really NAI

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Locke

[Ankamius]

I honestly don't see any way to scumread not_mafia directly

he really sounds like a player you either have to get rid of immediately or just read indirectly (such as with PoE)

funny thing I noticed though, he has an impressive amount of night 1 deaths

[Ankamius]

one thing I will note that I believe makes him more likely to be town is the timing of his unvote of GrandWazoo

he had his vote on that slot for so long and just randomly removed it to troll with it long after he started being really threatened with death

it's a lot better than locke tiptoeing around the wagon, only to hop on and then later panic and leave when he hit L-1

[Ankamius]

tbh

I'm not seeing the scum case on him at all actually, it all looks really NAI

What???

You've been describing things you think are scum to sort Locke as scum, but the same things applied to NM are "NAI"?

have you seen any of not_mafia's other games

they look just like this regardless of alignment

you can't use a universal standard for every single player, you have to apply it to people specifically

(note how I brought up town!locke's play in another game to contrast with how he's posting here)

[Ankamius]

n_m actually does sort, the problem is he doesn't show any of the process in the thread

[Ankamius]

all my experience with him is years old, I needed to make sure it was still relevant

[Ankamius]

one thing I will note that I believe makes him more likely to be town is the timing of his unvote of GrandWazoo

he had his vote on that slot for so long and just randomly removed it to troll with it long after he started being really threatened with death

it's a lot better than locke tiptoeing around the wagon, only to hop on and then later panic and leave when he hit L-1

There was a context to all of this. Locke's reaction to GW hitting L-1 did not feel like a panic at all.

I said the same thing as him prior to him unvoting. We had a similar thought process when it came to how that wagon developed.

here you go:

It's such a bs reason to start pushing someone.

There's standard bs reasons, and there's that.

UNVOTE: GrandWazoo
Yeah, I'm not comfortable with GW at L-1 for a reason this weak, it's like the least scum-indicative thing about GW

gw still scummy, btw

but eragon reps in to a quiet game and is like, ok this works for me. doesn't sit right

Why doesn't it sit right with you? Do you have experience playing with eragon? Or is this a non-meta based feeling?

Also sorry for the lack of activity everybody, was busy finishing off DMC5 then this game kinda just slipped my mind

Well then I'm fine with helping start the Insomnia/Eragon wagon back up again, after all my read on GW is mainly based off the possibility of him being Insomnia's scum partner so why not find out whether Insomnia/Eragon is scum first

VOTE: Eragon

[Ankamius]

you know, funny thing

I think the team is exactly Locke + NM

[Ankamius]

and in the world where that is the scumteam, Locke is the better lynch because he will be harder to lynch

but I can actually see pretty compelling reasons to townread just about every other slot by now so

[Ankamius]

btw

Eragon had scumreads on GrandWazoo+themilkcartonkid
and was townreading every other slot but Locke

in a world where Locke + GrandWazoo are both scum, that's a... really interesting strategy for when only one of the three are under pressure

[Ankamius]

I'm disappointed

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Ankamius]

I really miss being able to charisma my way to lynches

what happened in the last half year

[Ankamius]

that's why eragon is town when locke is scum, roster.

[Ankamius]

Jailing Locke tonight if NM flips scum btw.

If he flips town, I'm not telling you who I'm jailing.

100% agree with this

[Ankamius]

Yeah but if Eragon/Locke isn’t a team there’s no way NM isn’t scum unless I’m scum (spoiler: I’m not).

So NM is the best lynch by POE if you’re townreading me and believe the jailing etc.

a part of me really wants to have had perfect reads on the inital wagon on me

[Ankamius]

Sorting is trying to determine peoples alignment to reach a point where your reads have every alignment properly sorted

[Ankamius]

Because you're not reaching anything from them, you ask endless questions and yet the only evidence you're trying to reach any conclusions with them is when it's related to what everybody is already talking about. Your play this game is textbook coasting and you pretty blatantly were not in access point.

[Ankamius]

You were still trying to play for town to win when you were around is the difference.

I don't get that sense here.

[Ankamius]

well here's the problem.

now that I've actually looked at other games and seen roughly what the power level is with two goons + a traitor in 11p setups, this setup actually makes a lot of sense with 3 group scum, which makes their play completely consistent. this makes PP blatantly obvious town both for role and for play .
nomnomnom is still town because of day one and the n1 block on her (it makes complete sense for her to do the kill and it doesn't make sense for her to kill the claimed VIG if she otherwise knows there's a town role that can block that isn't TMCK)
rosterfoster is town because of early day 2 and the way he transitioned into day 3; I still can't understand what scum strategy this could possibly serve to immediately go guns out after a scum partner's lynch and push himself onto a death tunnel on eragon up until very recently; this is inherently dissonant with itself because it's like playing early day 2 just to increase his chances of survival and then squandering it on a push that's not going to be pushed through. it doesn't fit a consistent scum thought process.
eragon is town because the 'scumslip' just doesn't make sense as a legitimate slip (remember what I said to do to test this? you open popups when you try to hit ctrl plus either letter on either side, it makes no sense to randomly hit ctrl ONLY FOR that one letter and not notice it) and in the first place, it makes very little sense for scum to go that route in the first place after we just lynched a scum d1

guess what's left:

1. Not_Mafia, who is near unsortable for obvious reasons
2. Locke113, who has very vague and near empty posting when it comes from a solving standpoint, and the only solving I can come to is either sheeping what town's thoughts are for the day or about GW, which I already pointed out is not a town thought process.

the game simply makes the most sense when both of you are scum.

[Ankamius]

so really, what am I missing that makes you town here?

[Ankamius]

pretty much any of your catch ups fit that, locke.

[Ankamius]

rosterfoster is town because of early day 2 and the way he transitioned into day 3;

I still can't understand what scum strategy this could possibly serve to immediately go guns out after a scum partner's lynch and push himself onto a death tunnel on eragon up until very recently

; this is inherently dissonant with itself because it's like playing early day 2 just to increase his chances of survival and then squandering it on a push that's not going to be pushed through. it doesn't fit a consistent scum thought process.

You what? So if roster tunnels so therefore he is town?

you can't single out one thing and argue against that when the entire thing is one thought.

[Ankamius]

because context matters a lot more than the action by itself.

[Ankamius]

not when the context doesn't make the action any less bad

You what? So if roster tunnels so therefore he is town?

I gave you a reason why roster's tunneling was town.

what is the reason for it being scum and/or why does my reason not work.

[Ankamius]

rosterfoster tunneled eragon right after putting in a ton of work directly after lurking through to a scum lynch, effectively playing for survival followed by tunneling an unpopular read when following the popular reads really were not unpopular; and EVEN NOW he only gave up that eragon read because he's scumreading you and does not believe you're partners. this is NOT a scum mindset, especially one put on the back foot like they are here. rosterfoster!scum would have found a way to back out of that tunnel much earlier than he did, I bet on it.

your 'tunnel' on Eragon is nowhere near as town partially because you did it to try to save GrandWazoo and partially because you haven't really been pushing it, you've been prodding at it while giving fluffy posts in the meantime.

[Ankamius]

that's fine.

your approach to this back and forth said it all <3

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

I'M sure I said this before but Eragon/Locke isn't a thing so ok maybe I'm wrong about Eragon.

Shame he disappeared though.

But that makes NM scum in both worlds lol.

Ok

VOTE: NM

So you think Eragon/Locke is liklier than Locke/NM because Eragon was being ambiguous about Locke? What about Locke towards Eragon though?

Yeah but if Eragon/Locke isn’t a team there’s no way NM isn’t scum unless I’m scum (spoiler: I’m not).

So NM is the best lynch by POE if you’re townreading me and believe the jailing etc.

^ if you all didn't have enough evidence for why rosterfoster is town, this entire set of posts is borderline proof of a green PM.

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

I wasn't coasting in AP? I was literally coasting in AP on purpose because I gave so few shits about that game and you're saying I'm coasting in this game and not in AP?

Like I replaced out of AP for a reason

Well you're wrong cause I absolutely have been trying to sort this game, AP I was mainly just sheeping, you can argue you don't agree that any of my changed reads are genuine or caused by sorting this game but if you really believe so I'd like to see some of the more egregious examples of questions that I apparently asked to seem like sorting without actually sorting and why you feel they weren't genuine attempts to play towards a town win condition.

examples of questions that I apparently asked to seem like sorting without actually sorting and why you feel they weren't genuine attempts to play towards a town win condition.

rosterfoster is town because of early day 2 and the way he transitioned into day 3;

I still can't understand what scum strategy this could possibly serve to immediately go guns out after a scum partner's lynch and push himself onto a death tunnel on eragon up until very recently

; this is inherently dissonant with itself because it's like playing early day 2 just to increase his chances of survival and then squandering it on a push that's not going to be pushed through. it doesn't fit a consistent scum thought process.

You what? So if roster tunnels so therefore he is town?

rosterfoster is town because of early day 2 and the way he transitioned into day 3;

I still can't understand what scum strategy this could possibly serve to immediately go guns out after a scum partner's lynch and push himself onto a death tunnel on eragon up until very recently

; this is inherently dissonant with itself because it's like playing early day 2 just to increase his chances of survival and then squandering it on a push that's not going to be pushed through. it doesn't fit a consistent scum thought process.

You what? So if roster tunnels so therefore he is town?

you can't single out one thing and argue against that when the entire thing is one thought.

yes I can, if something you say is wrong then its wrong, doesn't matter if you consider the other reads in the post "one thought"

^ this is a scum response to a scumread.

he is not approaching this engagement with the mindset of somebody who KNOWS the solve is wrong and wants to understand and/or fix it

he is approaching this engagement from a defensive and survivalistic mindset, 100% consistent with someone who just needs to be out of the PoE.

[Ankamius]

am I good to stop efforting

[Ankamius]

yay

[Ankamius]

lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala

wheeeeeeeeeeeee

[Ankamius]

ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

[Ankamius]

nom who is scum

[Ankamius]

why should I answer that first?

[Ankamius]

interesting.

I'll be back later.

[Ankamius]

: )

[Ankamius]

Eragon you can't sit this day phase out

Get your butt in here

[Ankamius]

roster why is everyone but Locke and Eragon town

[Ankamius]

Hmmmmmmmm

Can you go into the associations for me if you remember any off hand

[Ankamius]

I need to engage with Eragon before deciding for certain

I'm like 90% sure I know who the other scum is but I need a confident read on Eragon before I'm willing to pull the trigger

[Ankamius]

Ftr we have to hit the second scum today

I think town just loses with a locke lynch today

[Ankamius]

I think you're obvtown

[Ankamius]

Lol

[Ankamius]

It just feels like she's setting up a lynch

that is not Locke

. And for me that's a really dangerous sign, especially with the non-existent reasoning for that.

There are three possibilities that rise in my mind for doing something like this.

I am guessing you've figured out that I'm scumreading you? : )

And why I would want you lynched today over Locke if that is true?

[Ankamius]

I'll get to this a bit later

But the one thing I want to point out is that me calling out my only partner before lylo when there is no pressure on him is... really fucking bad if I'm a traitor

[Ankamius]

That's because it's nom, roster

Why would I call out my scumbuddy when you two are locked into each other and then backpedal rather than work with those tunnels?

[Ankamius]

However, nom DOES want an endgame with you two

It's a very easy 3p

[Ankamius]

Why would I go back on my nom townread over my roster or Eragon townreads

[Ankamius]

I'll head on my way home so i can properly respond to this

[Ankamius]

Nom

[Ankamius]

And no it makes no sense for me to bust on Locke because not_mafia is a wildcard that would benefit me dead as scum

There are very easy options for me to win and I took a really obtuse one of I was scum here

[Ankamius]

Because I'm trying to avoid a full 1v1 situation tomorrow where there is one less town voice to contribute

Nom optimally wants to 1v1 me tomorrow after this exchange

[Ankamius]

Locke is in the spotlight exactly because I put him there

[Ankamius]

So before this exchange who did you want to lynch? And why?

Nom

PRECISELY because you and eragon were up each other's asses

[Ankamius]

Right but Ank you think the scumteam is Locke/Nom? Would you lynch Locke if both me and Eragon promised to lynch Nom tomorrow?

yes

but let me disprove the traitor theory first

it's a 3 groupscum game

[Ankamius]

and by the way

here's the traitor wiki page

TRAITORS ARE ENDGAMED IF ALL THE GROUPSCUM ARE DEAD

WHY WOULD I PUSH MY LAST PARTNER INTO THE SPOTLIGHT AS A TRAITOR

[Ankamius]

How do you know this?

let me find the game I figured this out from, hold on

[Ankamius]

I will literally vote for him first if you tell me to

[Ankamius]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66833

Town Odd-Night Mason Recruiter
Town Jailkeeper
Town Motion Detector

vs

Mafia Goon
Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Jailkeeper Enabler

those three roles are WEAKER than the ones in this setup (Odd-Night Mason Recruiter is MUCH weaker than a loyal neighborizer; Jailkeeper is the same, Motion Detector is not as useful as the Odd-Night Disloyal Roleblocker in single-groupscum scenarios)

and yet there were three groupscum with them having two roles that helped keep town from snowballing EVEN WITH THAT LEVEL OF POWER

there's been

some

change to the normal guidelines since then but the general level of balance really shouldn't be changing enough to make it so that town has THIS MUCH power and scum can get completely fucked two different ways by the end of Night 1

it's absolutely insane

[Ankamius]

actually the motion detector is probably a bit stronger, it's definitely nowhere near as drastic a change as LITERALLY BEING ABLE TO COP EVERY SINGLE NIGHT INSTEAD OF EVERY OTHER NIGHT

[Ankamius]

The only way Nom is scum is if she’s traitor IMO.

If you think the other scum is me then I’m sorry but we’re going to lose.

this is WRONG

the entire game makes complete sense with nomnomnom as groupscum.

1. She heavily resisted going onto GrandWazoo until it became inevitable that he was going to be lynched, she was stuck on the urap+alacrity scumteam idea the entire day phase
2. She pushed onto Eragon day 2; note that at this point, scum need

three

mislynches in order to win; TMCK was easily doable, Not_Mafia was very likely going to be a viable choice regardless of what happens, so she needs one more; I strongly believe Eragon was being groomed as a future mislynch solely because of that single reaction test he did on day two.
3. She tunneled on the Not_Mafia-is-scum theory,

tunneled

. She heavily resisted the switch onto Locke113.
4. She started the day trying to get me to play my hand first despite my play the day before making outright no sense as scum, then when I said that Locke was a bad lynch for the day,

she immediately started posturing to push onto me

. Nom KNOWS at this point that she WILL NOT win if I can play my cards out properly and build a case on her while roster and eragon are

both

locktowning me. Her only choice is to destroy my credibility before I can get to that point.

She's completely ignoring that I cannot be scum with Locke, because I have easy mislynch targets on both rosterfoster and Eragon.
She's completely ignoring that I caught Grandwazoo immediately and responded to her pressure on me by

trying to reach out to her

instead of shading or diminishing her
She's completely ignoring that I have been going against the grain on just about everything when the game was literally being handed to me on a silver platter if I was scum.

And best of all?

Even if I was specifically looking to take over the game for the endgame and brute force a mislynch...

WHY WOULD I PUSH MY SCUMPARTNER FIRST AND THEN PUSH ON THE MOST DIFFICULT MISLYNCH TARGET?

[Ankamius]

I have no reason to shield rosterfoster like I did as scum.
I have no reason to shield Eragon like I did as scum.

Doing BOTH as scum is even more fucking ridiculous.

I know I call my scumgame pretty bad, but it's because I can't execute on my strategies, not because I'm so fucking stupid that I can't even think of them in the first place.

[Ankamius]

Yeah Ank I changed my mind on that.

sorry, I've had bad games this year so far :S

[Ankamius]

you haven't explained what my plan is this game, nom.

[Ankamius]

welcome to my town game

[Ankamius]

(the secrecy is reaction testing)

(I was specifically testing you today to see what you would push)

[Ankamius]

the nomnomnom + Eragon + rosterfoster endgame is juuuuuuuuuuuuuuicy for you at the start of day

why would you not push for that as scum

[Ankamius]

I strongly believe that you would not have responded the way you did to me saying that locke isn't the lynch today if you were town.

[Ankamius]

what?

at the start of the day, lynching locke was a scum-motivated idea lol

and you instantly discredited me when I suggested otherwise

[Ankamius]

sorry, let me correct myself:

at the start of the day, lynching locke

and only locke

was a scum-motivated idea lol

[Ankamius]

Now that Eragon and roster aren't lockscumming each other anymore, that is indeed no longer a problem!

[Ankamius]

A -> B -> C -> D

[Ankamius]

I have no reason to shield rosterfoster like I did as scum.
I have no reason to shield Eragon like I did as scum.

Doing BOTH as scum is even more fucking ridiculous.

I know I call my scumgame pretty bad, but it's because I can't execute on my strategies, not because I'm so fucking stupid that I can't even think of them in the first place.

as a blanket

i absolutely hate posts like this, saying "i wouldnt do ____ as scum" relating back to my abhorrance of self-meta

because if you know you "cant" do something as scum

then you can force yourself to do it as scum...

and get townread baselessly

That's not self meta as much as "what the hell am I trying to do if I am scum because a pretty clear path to victory is available to me and I chose to make the game really hard on myself"

I'm asking what my plan to win is with this play

I planned out the kill and the rampage and who I wanted to bring into lylo even during the first day in mustard and completely based the only kill we got around that, scum won that game partially because I strategized well enough to avoid town being able to recover during day two and because nobody knew my playstyle well enough to see that it was a textbook scum game for me.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Locke113

[Ankamius]

Noting that Locke hasn't checked in

That's as good as a scumclaim

[Ankamius]

I don't blame him either, correct play for him is to avoid saying anything AI if at all possible

[Ankamius]

Huh.

Well then.

[Ankamius]

gg I guess

This is exactly why you don't policy lynch on day 3

[Ankamius]

although tbh now that I think about it

this town was really weak lolt

nobody was the town glue and we desperately needed one

[Ankamius]

Eragon turning roster on me was the game winning move

I'm so sad, it would be been proper play to kill roster after a nom lynch and I think that w
would've been enough of a tipoff for me to reconsider Locke

I caught two at least :/

[Ankamius]

It was fun melding with you roster

Let's do it again sometime yeah?

[Ankamius]

also urap what were you going to ask me after the game? I assume it was just about my identity? :V

[Ankamius]

Ahhhhhhh

Was there anything that would have gave me away?

[Ankamius]

That logic is what I realized was the incorrect clear on her

I was also checking to see if anybody had any stronger reasons for it :/

I just didn't realize that my clear on Eragon was more bad scum reads on him rather than him being town for it, I thought it was kinda obviously faked lol

[Ankamius]

to help reduce swing I bet

[Ankamius]

Urap2 you were fine

You were on GWs ass all of day one, thats good enough

It was just unlucky that you got the strongest PR on top of that :/

[Ankamius]

although tbh now that I think about it

this town was really weak lolt

nobody was the town glue and we desperately needed one

I agree with this tbh

there was really no one that ever truly “escaped” the PoE

You, ank, were more-or-less confirmed town, but the fact that you and nom kept going back and forth meant that you were less focused on other things. That’s not a ot a bad thing either, and you did correctly read nom.

But throughout the game there were very few people that were actually “obvious town”

additionally with the cop dying N1 you lost all chances at having clears

I was just annoyed that I obvtowned and had it turned back on, that's all :/

We were on a good track but I have too many issues communicating with people properly to get people on the same page as me and roster was the unfortunate target of that this game

and PP too actually

[Ankamius]

Hi Elsa