Mini Normal 2066: Catloaves [Game Over!]

[themilkcartonkid]

VOTE: lovebird because I dont know anyone else

[themilkcartonkid]

Voting the only person you know?
Isn't that a bit counter-intuitive?

Maybe, why?

[themilkcartonkid]

I like Lockes questions, and this sounds stilted

Do you usually ask for permission to join a wagon?

It is possible that I have asked a similar question before, but I can't think of one, so let's go with No.

Permission is not the word I would use though. I asked PP for his opinion on where my vote should be.

I dont know if this is due to being carefully planned out as scum or it's just the tone they type with

[themilkcartonkid]

I like Lockes questions, and this sounds stilted

Do you usually ask for permission to join a wagon?

It is possible that I have asked a similar question before, but I can't think of one, so let's go with No.

Permission is not the word I would use though. I asked PP for his opinion on where my vote should be.

I dont know if this is due to being carefully planned out as scum or it's just the tone they type with

My completed games are all listed on my wiki (button under my avatar)

Why don't you go find out?

Because I dont have the time and because I can get responses like this

I’ve played with town URAP before. Tone was similar.

Can we all just lynch nomnom?

I'll believe it for now

[themilkcartonkid]

I agree with insomnia right now. I think nom is the easy mislynch today. They're a d1 lynch more than d1 imo

[themilkcartonkid]

That should have said d2 more than d1

[themilkcartonkid]

I think insomnia blew up way too quickly. I super think that was scummy. But I think we should see the replacement first. Because it could be just another thing altogether. A replacement gives us more info and it could be a strong town player if insomnia was town. To be clear, I do want to lynch them, but not yet

[themilkcartonkid]

UNVOTE:

initial impression is insomnia likely gets frustrated enough to replace out as town way more often than as scum.

That said, if he ends up not replacing out, it's NAI at best

Why is this your initial impresson?

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm gonna ask again: is this type of thing common on this site? Like, replacing out like that, I mean.

It happens too often (and often for the wrong reasons) imo.

YMMV, I havent experienced it yet

[themilkcartonkid]

What makes you think this wagon is led by town, if anything this feels like scum making use of the replace out to get votes of their partner

Which slot do you believe is doing this?

I have the impression that nomnomnom is an overeager town looking to start a push. PenguinPower can go either way, but I could see town hopping on the way he had!

Unless there is a reason you have to suspect it beyond that, I do not think there is much more to it!

"Screw this...let's start a brand new wagon"

Why?

Because I'm fairly confident she's scum. She was already in my reads list but that unvote screws with my mind too much.

That timing on her not answering and vanishing all of a sudden is also something that makes me confident about this. I honestly don't care if this is a new wagon. She's scum.

Sure.

VOTE: Alacrity

Don't like this exchange, questions nom's vote in a way that suggests disapproval, nom gives because she's already on my scumlist and she didn't answer me quick enough basically and that's enough?

The worst part about this wagon is that Alacrity is def a scumlean for me but this wagon has manifested in a way that makes me feel uneasy about putting my vote there now

I believe you are getting stuck at the reason for the wagon. =)

I do not believe it was meant to be a slam dunk case, I believe it was meant to be a pressure wagon more than a wagon meant to result in a lynch. That is why I believe it is likely that the later votes are the scum votes if there are any here!

Although I am townreading nom for being newbie and an easy lynch i will say that she could easily be trying to push for a lynch by grasping for straws. Especially how she said "this is scummy" and then "yeah... this is scummy," and votes in a second post later. Could be testing the waters.

I think you're right about it being followed by scum though. I think VOTE: grandwazoo is a good guess at scum, but I dont know if it's the most useful vote. I dont have a better alternative yet.

One thing I did want to note is that eragon mentions nom A LOT in their catch up. I feel like that's significant, but I could have shared glasses on rn. Overall wasn't impressed with eragon catch up.

[themilkcartonkid]

I dont think theres anything to alacricity yet.

[themilkcartonkid]

Can you please expand upon "I didnt like" ?

[themilkcartonkid]

Ok. To be clear, I think grand wazoo is a good vote because they have done nothing but jump on wagons and I agree with the assessment that scum likely jumped on that wagon. I think that it's unfortunate that I dont have a better vote though because I dont think that'll even respond to it. They remind me of cjvinoya in that respect. Sorry you dont agree with me, but being wrong about a read is not a good reason to scumread someone. And you cant accurately call my reaction fence-sitting. I am firmly on one side of the fence pointing out a possible flaw in another person's argument.

[themilkcartonkid]

Thought I quoted that

[themilkcartonkid]

I've already explained that I post in a stream of consciousness (third time now)...sooo...

Maybe terminology is off - I am trying to suss their alignment, but I'm not going to wagon/lynch either one D1 as I can get a better feel for each later game. N_M less so.

I hope this isn not too much information that makes my identity obvious, but I push points like this precisely because this is how I read players that post in a stream of consciousness style.

This response does not satisfy me, but I will assume that I am getting caught up in how you worded your posts and drop the point. I could see this being me not interpreting you correctly.

@Grand Wazoo, could you define what pings you about this post. Seems like you might have skimmed this one

[themilkcartonkid]

but again, why is being "Bold" neccesarily towny?

i'd argue it's less likely to come from scum, but I don't think it's inherently townie.

your point on 83 is good.

I disagree with this, I know way more people who are bold as scum than town. Actually know a bunch of people who freeze when town because they dont know where to start

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm curious about why you think that but I think this isn't game related and I don't wanna clog the discussion with this stuff, so yeah

It is directly game related for me, so an answer would be nice

[themilkcartonkid]

I disagree with this, I know way more people who are bold as scum than town. Actually know a bunch of people who freeze when town because they dont know where to start

Do you have reason to believe roster is one of those people?

Not at the moment, but it is strictly NAI for me and it was a big part of your read so it makes the read not as strong

[themilkcartonkid]

Further, it's another instance of you undercutting a read without actually working to build a read there.

I think I want this.

VOTE: TheMilkCartonKid

Look, I just got out of a game where people got too set in their reads, it was awful. I'm not going to let that happen here. I dont care if i dont have any reads yet, I'm going to keep pointing out bad reads when i see them

[themilkcartonkid]

Open 750, lovebird was in it. Someone had a bad read on a scum player and no one called it out. It was this exact read actually. "I've played before with them as town"

[themilkcartonkid]

This post confuses me. Conspiracy theory levels right there.

Well what else can I say but it ain't paranoia if they're really out to get you. Also its not like its that out there of a thought process, replace outs can stall the progress on a wagon on that slot for multiple reasons. Firstly, people might respond like urap and feel this is a alignment indicative move and find it townie. Secondly, with the player now gone they can no longer shoot themselves in the foot by saying more incriminating things and their replacement has to be given a certain amount of leeway at first because they have to catch up. This means all the stuff to point out the person is scum has already been said and the more time that people on the wagon have to wait, the more likely they are to doubt whether this stuff is actually scummy at all or whether they were just imagining shit.

This serves as a perfect opportunity for a scum partner to either A. Prepare to bus the living fuck out of their partner, possibly going so far as hammering their partner before their replacement even catches up or B. Start a completely new wagon/start pushing a much smaller wagon to draw attention away from their scum partner. It's not really conspiracy theory levels, at least not on the level of reptilians, which are totally real

I will now be sheeping Locke because they are too smart tm

[themilkcartonkid]

What Locke just described is frowned upon and banned in many games I've played. The rules will say something like "do not replace out for strategy"

[themilkcartonkid]

@Locke if anyone else than me started a new wagon as Eragon was coming in this game, would you have scumread them for that reason too?

Yes, you aren't the only one I'm looking at funny in regards to this wagon

I'm curious, care to detail? I want to know your thoughts on the Alac wagon as a whole.

Went into it a bit in 269 though I don't think I mentioned that the speed of the wagon is also alarming to me, it manifested from no votes on alacrity to L-2 within the space of 24 hours on grounds that are shaky at best in my opinion. Ironically while you are my strongest scumread apart from insomnia/eragon, your creation of the wagon feels more genuine than the rest joining who either gave no reason(n_m) or very little(PP,GW). Also if I'm wrong and this ain't a scum driven wagon and alacrity is scum, I feel that would reverse my read on you

So why not pp and gw.? What was it about the initiation, because I think it was the follow up

[themilkcartonkid]

I mean, what was it about noms initiation that made you think scum-lead rather than opportunistic scum hop on?

[themilkcartonkid]

Also, after thinking about it some more, VOTE: PP
This makes way more sense to me. Sheeping from post 1 and being too agreeable with everyone

[themilkcartonkid]

Pardon, UNVOTE: VOTE: penguinpower

[themilkcartonkid]

First you chose milkcartonkid, without any mention of the guy beforehand, and that time period was the only one where he started talking more often.

I think that seeing that it didn't stick, you took a look at who else was talking,

It was actually that I read the game he linked, and a good deal of the tones and.. let's say class of reads that he was pushing there were similar to what I was scum reading him for here

GW is probably scum tho, I like this vote

Ouch, yeah I'm trying to get better at town.

[themilkcartonkid]

It's such a bs reason to start pushing someone.

There's standard bs reasons, and there's that.

This is a very bad reason to L-1 someone. Sometimes people do stupid stuff

[themilkcartonkid]

Urap prolly isn't scum. He just sucks at reading me.

I'm basically getting pushed for being a prick. This is a really, really bad wagon.

Run a wagon read on your own wagon, cause that was hammer

[themilkcartonkid]

I stuck at counting lol

[themilkcartonkid]

Okay, NM is probably town.

Urap prolly isn't scum. He just sucks at reading me.

I'm basically getting pushed for being a prick. This is a really, really bad wagon.

He's not wrong. I misread him in our only completed game, I believe?

I don't think that's happening here, but if you're thinking of sheeping me, keep this in mind.

Man... these ping me

[themilkcartonkid]

VOTE: ur a person 2 I dont see how trying to pinpoint n-m as town here helps and I also super doubt that THAT helped you sort him. Seems tmi. Plus, a major deescalation that seemed very appreciative of being called town.

[themilkcartonkid]

VOTE: ur a person 2 I dont see how trying to pinpoint n-m as town here helps and I also super doubt that THAT helped you sort him. Seems tmi. Plus, a major deescalation that seemed very appreciative of being called town.

what deescalation? My vote is on GW lol

That's why its icky. You sound like you're trying to soften gws apinion of you rather than defend

[themilkcartonkid]

how is it anti-town, tho?

let's say you don't blow up his spot, and GW thinks he's hammered. Then when he spews his role, it's basically a free cop check?

to say nothing of ancillary reactions.

It's anti-town because it's obfuscation. I don't care what the reasoning is, trying to make people believe something happened when it didn't is anti-town in my book.

Plus your reasoning is stupid because making someone claim when they actually don't have to is painting a target on someone's back. And why that would have happened in this case is because some moron with a cow gif thought it would be funny.

There are lots of reasons to fake things, they're called gambits. Also dont insult people

[themilkcartonkid]

how is it anti-town, tho?

let's say you don't blow up his spot, and GW thinks he's hammered. Then when he spews his role, it's basically a free cop check?

to say nothing of ancillary reactions.

It's anti-town because it's obfuscation. I don't care what the reasoning is, trying to make people believe something happened when it didn't is anti-town in my book.

Plus your reasoning is stupid because making someone claim when they actually don't have to is painting a target on someone's back. And why that would have happened in this case is because some moron with a cow gif thought it would be funny.

There are lots of reasons to fake things, they're called gambits. Also dont insult people

Sorry, I'm just irritated by how this guy plays overall. Like, jesus christ. Why are you joining games if it's to play like this?

Also don't make me believe a "gambit" from someone that literally hasn't said anything during the game is a good thing.

Dont misrepresents me, I made no judgments about the merit of this gambit

Pedit. Scum could try to guess cop

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm caught up!

u r a person 2, nomnomnom, and Not_Mafia are strong townreads.
rosterfoster is not as strong a town read as they used to be, but I still believe they are probably town!
Locke113 and Insomnia, now Eragon, are probably town, but are less confident townreads as well.

GrandWazoo and themilkcartonkid are both likely scum slots, and currently that would mean that one of Elsa Jay and PenguinPower are likely the third. =)

As an aside, welcome to the game Elsa Jay! It's nice to meet you!

This may be a scum slip unless I missed something about the setup, which I doubt

[themilkcartonkid]

Melding in reads and stances is not exactly a trait that is commonly shared by scum partners on day one, nom, especially when it continues after attention is being brought to it.

If we are the only two scum in the game, that is a bit suicidal, don't you think? We both have also caged ourselves in by townreading you for this attack despite you not backing off from it.

Normally I would agree with you, but the fact that none of you looked at this and said "huh, that IS strange" is also worrying me.
I've seen scums do all sorts of things, really. I don't come playing mafia games with pre-conceived notions of "dangerous", "risky" and "logical" anymore.

For now, I'll stay with this theory. I'll listen my instinct on this one.

It is sso possible one is buddying the other

[themilkcartonkid]

I think your semi right about scum not melding their reads, (although it is still very possible) but what if ur a person 2 is trying to agree with your reads or vice versa. You guys seem generally amiable towards each other. What if that's the goal of one of you?

[themilkcartonkid]

Actually, if I would say one or the other. I'd say that alacricity is trying to buddy urap. Urap seems to have dropped their sr of me, but didnt make it totally clear. Al sred me after urap did, and I think they were following urap, but didnt realize that urap dropped that read

[themilkcartonkid]

Also, VOTE: alacrity

[themilkcartonkid]

Al sred me after urap did, and I think they were following urap, but didnt realize that urap dropped that read

That's not actually true. Alacrity had suspicions on you as early as 205 so I think assuming Alacrity copied urap's vote cannot be true.

I think insomnia blew up way too quickly. I super think that was scummy. But I think we should see the replacement first. Because it could be just another thing altogether. A replacement gives us more info and it could be a strong town player if insomnia was town. To be clear, I do want to lynch them, but not yet

This post is giving me a lot of nervous scum pings!

Huh... I still want this to be true because it's what it feels like right now. But I can't argue against this without confbias alarms going off. So UNVOTE:

[themilkcartonkid]

@chibi, I thought I unvoted?

Fixed, sorry about that. The vote counter has been unreliable and I didn't see the unvote at the end of the line.

[themilkcartonkid]

VOTE: Grand Wazoo

I would argue that this shouldn't count as a post because it doesn't do anything, not maf was already voting gw

[themilkcartonkid]

Now you have contributed thank you

[themilkcartonkid]

This wagon is ick

[themilkcartonkid]

Can eragon respond to this first before we lynch anyone. I'm so out of reads.

[themilkcartonkid]

I must be paranoid because I can see a world where 4 or 5 of the current players are scum based on the last day or two. I think apathy is killing my ability to read. The only person I'm fairly sure is town is nom and I'm just assuming n m is as well because why not. But other than that I see reason to sus everyone else. The reasons are not all equally valid, I've got some crackpot deep town conspiracy vibes going on on some, some obvscum tells on others, and my personal favorite theory that I will save until after the first flip or two. I think I'm really going to have to try hard at this

[themilkcartonkid]

I can type up every theory and probably when I do that I'll realize some of them are too stupid, but it will be a couple days, busy next few days. I'll be playing on mobile for now

[themilkcartonkid]

Crap, I dont have time to write up my theories... okay I think Locke and foster were townread way too early, even by me. They've not played different from scum since, very lurky and/or swingy. Urap has made some really weird vote changes that ping me. Alacrity seems the most obvscum to me because their posts have been almost cheeky with being scum. Penguin has also been busy lurking imo, but I'm more open to being convinced on them. Some weird stuff that could possibly just be apathy. GW seems fairly broadly sred but the more I think about it, the less convinced I am. I like their posts when they post. I havent fully thought through any one of these but alacrity or roster seem the best to me. Thoughts anyone?

[themilkcartonkid]

I think it's clear they're just doing it to be able to jump on a wagon

[themilkcartonkid]

What? This is actually not that hard to deduce. What does n-m do? Jump on wagons at l-1 to hammer. He cant do that if hes already on a wagon, therefore, he wants to get off of any possible wagons that he could jump on at l-1.

[themilkcartonkid]

Because its eod

[themilkcartonkid]

Alacrity is a better vote than GW I think VOTE: alacrity

[themilkcartonkid]

But the claaaaiiiim

[themilkcartonkid]

VOTE: grandwazoo

[themilkcartonkid]

Question about your hypothetical role, so I wont die if I'm town due to the loyal part?

[themilkcartonkid]

Hypothetically cool

[themilkcartonkid]

I think the idea is loyal meaning you would never hurt your alignment

[themilkcartonkid]

Oh

[themilkcartonkid]

Then please no and should I claim hypothetically?

[themilkcartonkid]

Maybe dont hypothetically threaten someone you're not 100 percent on then

[themilkcartonkid]

I said threaten, not shoot

[themilkcartonkid]

*Airplane noises*

[themilkcartonkid]

Cool, the only person I'm like 80% on

[themilkcartonkid]

This is dumb, shoot the alt wagon

[themilkcartonkid]

Because either they're scum, they're a mislynch, or they'll never die and cause confusion because scum for sure wont kill them

[themilkcartonkid]

Alacrity conftown. I noticed that town split into pairs. Lock and roster, me and nom, urap and alac, pp and Elsa. N-m grandwazoo and eragon never really had anyone they gelled with. I dont think alac kills the only one who was agreeing with their reads

[themilkcartonkid]

also

milk going

"but the claiiiiim"

and in his next post hammering shows lack of real progression

This is disingenuous, read the posts in between

[themilkcartonkid]

VOTE: roster

Your latest posts make me think you have scum information to say all of this, and it's visible in your wording choices in particular.

Can you point some out please

[themilkcartonkid]

Since scum would almost certainly never pair that in main chat.

UNVOTE:

In fact that makes it likely that neither of you are scum with him.

Can you expound on this please?

[themilkcartonkid]

Alacrity, pls read twilight yesterday

[themilkcartonkid]

Okay cool, I guess you're just going to ignore that then. Also PP, I expect better of you. You're not an idiot, stop voting like one

[themilkcartonkid]

How could you look at twilight and vote me?
Pedit, uh, should I claim?
Pedit 2 okay then

[themilkcartonkid]

The threat, my response, and Elsas response. Plus nom not getting it

[themilkcartonkid]

Town odd night disloyal roleblocker. I'm not going to be useful tonight anyway. Peace.

[themilkcartonkid]

Elsa

[themilkcartonkid]

Who did you block?

Elsa

Well good thing I didn't waste my single shot yesterday. Seriously though why rb a vigi claim.

Read the role again, town disloyal

[themilkcartonkid]

I figured if you're bluffing (and I'm almost certain) I either blocked a kill or special role for mafia or did nothing.

[themilkcartonkid]

Like I said, I'm odd night and I dont think I'm going to live through tonight so lynch me or dont, I'm good

[themilkcartonkid]

Also honestly joking aside I feel that's was a scumslip

VOTE: Eragon

Wut

[themilkcartonkid]

Oh, that didnt make sense so much that i didnt catch it at first.

[themilkcartonkid]

For what it's worth, I sus eragon anyway VOTE: eragon

[themilkcartonkid]

I dont know though, honestly this doesn't make sense in this game though

[themilkcartonkid]

No, hes not writing town, it could be from another game

[themilkcartonkid]

It could be just worth it to assume it is though

[themilkcartonkid]

See yah

[themilkcartonkid]

Wait, isn't he? I'll have to recheck

[themilkcartonkid]

Roster is correct, now who is the other.

[themilkcartonkid]

Can we wait a bit longer. Seeing reactions plus trying to figure out the partner will be useful and I'd like to play as long as possible

[themilkcartonkid]

Pengu... you have to be scum at this point. Why would eragon be telling me that I'm all good, I was most definitely not all good. I did not have good associatives.

[themilkcartonkid]

It's okay penguin, everyone gets nervous

[themilkcartonkid]

Well, that was excessively boring

I liked the reactions from nom, first of all for calling it out and bringing it up, after multiple people missed/ignored it. It shows good attention to detail and actual drive to figure out motives.

I didn't like TMCK's reaction, it felt very very wish-washy, which i would expect from scum that knows its 100% fake. He starts off asking like, "wut" and then realizes and is like "ooooh" then he comes back and says, "but is it, idk, but it probably just is, but are you sure???"

Roster's reaction was kinda the same at first, but they realized it and they stuck with it strong, so thats slight town points

Notmafia didn't respond except vote lol

PP's reaction actually isn't that great. It doesnt really feel like he believed that i "slipped" with the quotations marks expressing doubt.

Elsa's reaction is fakeable as either alignment

Welp... I dont believe this

[themilkcartonkid]

Wait wait wait wait. Elsa didnt quickhammer despite thinking eragon is caught scum and then eragon comes back with "it was all just reaction" how incredibly lucky.

[themilkcartonkid]

When you all but say "hi my name is eragon and I am scum" then you can expect to be lynched okay?

[themilkcartonkid]

It's not unreasonable to expect Elsa to lynch you and it's not for me to expect it either. Also "I dont want to be associated with a quickhammer" is the slimmest reason ever

[themilkcartonkid]

Nope. Seen it happen before. Wasn't scum.

[themilkcartonkid]

No, read that again. The weird thing was that it seemed to be just in time for you to swoop in with an excuse

[themilkcartonkid]

Yes. Those crumbs are so vague I cant even

[themilkcartonkid]

And the biggest thing is timing. Why did you need to shake anything up? I was about to be lynched and you were sring me

[themilkcartonkid]

Short. Days. Happen.

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm going to bed. I'll look at this tomorrow

[themilkcartonkid]

Because Penguin was voting Milk at the time of the slip, which mentioned buddy voting Milk.

I think you need to reread the slip again

[themilkcartonkid]

Honestly, even if it was a reaction test, which I doubt. I think this should be policy lynched. I dont think eragon nor anyone else can actually read these responses. Everyone just confirmed what they already believed. It's also way too convenient and just for the futures sake I dont want scum to be able to pull off something like this on my watch.

[themilkcartonkid]

It wouldn't be hard to slip it in

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm deeply afraid I'm going to survive tonight

[themilkcartonkid]

You have no clue what you're doing and my flip will prove it lynch me

[themilkcartonkid]

Ammendment. Some people have obvtown reactions that could be either way. Fence sitty posts are also either way. Here. You have no clue. You also completely ignored penguins posts which are exactly likebthebscum one you described. I think you're seeing everything through tinted goggles

[themilkcartonkid]

No, fence dirty posts. And obvtown can soooo easily be faked

[themilkcartonkid]

"A little" he believed you immediately. You're a huge hyppocrote

[themilkcartonkid]

Sitty, not dirty

[themilkcartonkid]

That kind of obvtown is easy yes.

[themilkcartonkid]

Nom... why is my claim so bad?

[themilkcartonkid]

It wouldn't have worked if they were town and it would have stopped them from claiming they had killed the nk (which would have made me think the person I blocked was maf) honestly I've already explained this. It was the best option I had because I thought I was dead anyway

[themilkcartonkid]

Siiiiiigh. I soft claimed yesterday and Elsa correctly pointed out that I was screwed now because scum were going to kill me. I guess the soft claim was too soft because I didnt die (although I dont know why urap did). So. BecauseElsa, if shes town, is 1 shot, I'm the next death,

[themilkcartonkid]

Also, why the actual heck does everyone just believe the first person to say a role is too OP or not balanced.

[themilkcartonkid]

Sure, but dont just assume eragon is scum when I flip okay, actually think about it first okay?

[themilkcartonkid]

Dont vote eragon BECAUSE of how I flip. I think hes scum, but if this is a real test, I dont want to be responsible for the game

[themilkcartonkid]

Nom and eragon, that was excellent scumplay. Like even if nom had been killed your associatives were very good. I independently scumread each of you when I died, but I did not think it was actually both of you

[themilkcartonkid]

I'm actually impressed that eragon talked his way out of being lynched

[themilkcartonkid]

I think it would have worked to get you lynched and eragon wouldn't have been considered as partner. It would have locktowned ank and I think Locke would gave been lynched next

[themilkcartonkid]

My strats of faking a scumslip as scum is ruined now for this site for at least 3 months lol

unless I’m actually town and want actual reactions

<3

I would still policy lynch and end up getting lynched for it