Newbie 1924 - Game Over

[RCEnigma]

Wow I like everyones entrance VOTE: saladman except this one.

[RCEnigma]

RCE claiming their role already is a concern.

Well no one caught my crumbs, last resort.

[RCEnigma]

Stands for Scumread Everyone.

[RCEnigma]

Why the change of heart?

[RCEnigma]

After salad gets some votes I'll oblige. Though my example is a bit of a different scenario in the sense that openings were manipulated by the IC.

[RCEnigma]

I think a mass claim would be good today to get the game going.
RCE you go first.

Do I claim my red check too senpai?

[RCEnigma]

I guess this makes you Watson Vedith.

[RCEnigma]

I'm with you there actually. Don't pocket me with it.

[RCEnigma]

This feels dirty. But it is the way it must be VOTE: voted

Boy that is a pain to properly tag on mobile.

[RCEnigma]

So now that we have 1 scum and some spare time. How familiar are all of you with mafia? On/off-site, forum/f2f, etc.

[RCEnigma]

Has voted for lynching VOTE: Saladman27.

Chances are you don't like me joining the wagoon against Saladman. I did it because I hope it could work as a catalyst and that it would increase the frequency of messages in this thread. Didn't work.

Reaching for the bottom rung here. The self awareness is ok. Hot take brought to you by nacho: voted flips scum then he's partnered with an SE.

[RCEnigma]

Not Vedith, that's too easy. But is also exactly what Vedith would want you to think. Hmm.

[RCEnigma]

We are still best friends after all.

[RCEnigma]

Bottom right under the page count.

[RCEnigma]

Has voted for lynching VOTE: Saladman27.

Chances are you don't like me joining the wagoon against Saladman. I did it because I hope it could work as a catalyst and that it would increase the frequency of messages in this thread. Didn't work.

Reaching for the bottom rung here. The self awareness is ok. Hot take brought to you by nacho: voted flips scum then he's partnered with an SE.

Are you saying an SE coached him into giving that as a reason. Seems to me like an SE would come up with a better reason. If anything voted flipping scum would mean a non SE partner.

Unless this is a tmi post right now, no. I was thinking more along the lines of how he reacted to pressure, the nonchalant attitude. As an SE the advice would be not to react to it and let town switch gears elsewhere. More or less.

It reads more like scum caught for bad reasoning and therefore not much to worry about.

[RCEnigma]

Fair assessment, I'd like other slots to speak their opinion on voted.

[RCEnigma]

Rough early reads would be something like:

{Kobe beef, CC}
{Vedith, datisi}
{Saladfinger}
{TTTT}
{Voted}

No context.

[RCEnigma]

It does Indeed refer to other players and I appreciate your input.

[RCEnigma]

Tos is also like...a marathon role madness game, if that does anything for your read. So not really dayplay focused.

[RCEnigma]

It doesn't translate the same here on forum. Are we still doing this RVs thing?

[RCEnigma]

And why is that? The reasoning behind your vote I mean.

[RCEnigma]

Hm that's a poor question, it's because my name looks like RC. Why are you content your rvs vote landed on scum? Is probably a better question.

[RCEnigma]

Rough early reads would be something like:

{Kobe beef, CC}
{Vedith, datisi}
{Saladfinger}
{TTTT}
{Voted}

No context.

Is the TTTT thing entirely due to your hunch about Voted?

I think they are individually scummy but there is one of two things happening which I want to talk about but not at the moment. I could see them together though so no and yes.

[RCEnigma]

I'm going to call you mister ma'am.

[RCEnigma]

Did I forget navneet in my readslist?

[RCEnigma]

Damn, we were close too.

[RCEnigma]

Maybe we flip him today, that would be spicy.

[RCEnigma]

I'll hammer after that.

[RCEnigma]

Are you saying you don't want him lynched?

[RCEnigma]

Well salad is voting me and I'm voting you. What do you think of that? Why do you think I'm still scumreading you? If you were in my shoes do you think you would be reading your slot as town?

[RCEnigma]

The last one is kind of a useless question now that I think about it.

[RCEnigma]

That was more towards voted. I can't say I don't think you're scummy though. What do you think about the game salad? Do you think scum are voting you at the moment? Who do you think is town? Was the text in your role pm red?

[RCEnigma]

Well salad is voting me and I'm voting you. What do you think of that? Why do you think I'm still scumreading you? If you were in my shoes do you think you would be reading your slot as town?

Salad is random voting you so it has no weight. You are voting me either because you think that I am scum or because you want to test me. Or both.

I don't know why everyone scum reads me. In every game. Would love to know. Probably because of my inability to make constructive early in game and my strange sense of humour.

If the other players get active soon I'll elaborate. But it probably means I double down on my push.

[RCEnigma]

Well was the text white or red?

Thats on whom? Also, asking newbies for things experienced players can easily fake? Thats not very nice of you.

He's being cheeky, as was I.

[RCEnigma]

No worries so am I CC lol.

[RCEnigma]

Worrying trends:
-Vedith is top poster
-Voted is 3rd too poster with little to no original content
-Navneet is mia after establishing a low post meta in his previous game (which Vedith hasn't questioned)
-Vedith is top poster.

[RCEnigma]

Ah the bit in parentheses is because Vedith replaced into the scumteam with navneet during that game and got his closest Town Ally to counterclaim against him.

Still reading through that game.

[RCEnigma]

You canz edet by way of pos. By just correcting in a quote if you want, if you can't live with typos.

[RCEnigma]

You can edit by way of post. By just correcting in a quote if you want, if you can't live with typos.

Ebwop.

Also wincon is just your win condition: Lynch all baddies or outnumber the town.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Navneet

I think you have bad luck with rolls though I think you've slipped. Generally I ignore slip-type posts but this is a bit on the nose.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: maybe I'm over thinking and it's just an oversight kind of thing.

So, I kind of like voteds last post. But I sprung up as a counter push to Voteds wagon and it's got me thinking.

[RCEnigma]

you talking about the "other 8 people" thing?

Yeah but I don't think it makes much sense as either alignment to think that way and less likely to be a slip. I'd also be implying I myself am scum with nav if I consider it an actual slip.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: maybe I'm over thinking and it's just an oversight kind of thing.

So, I kind of like voteds last post. But I sprung up as a counter push to Voteds wagon and it's got me thinking.

Well, you slighty look like a scum who is pretending to help town hunt scum.

Well how do you know what town scumhunting and scum scumhunting look like and how they're different? This isn't like a right or wrong thing I just want to know what criteria you look for.

[RCEnigma]

As an aside Voted still hasn't done anything that rectifies why I was originally scumreading him. I still haven't elaborated but that's mostly because the slots that I want to take hard stances haven't taken hard stances.

[RCEnigma]

I've already said I'll ignore it. However, if you yourself aren't scum then 2 of the other 8 slots are. A random vote to start the day is more likely to land on town than scum and you haven't done anything to slim those numbers down so to think that your Rand vote landed on scum is poor reasoning.

It also doesn't reinforce wether I'm scum or not scum, just thank you aren't bothered to figure out if you are voting scum or town.

I think in your case I'm giving more leeway for a couple different reasons - new player, both games played you rolled scum I believe? So you may not have a strong base on how to scumhunt or what looks scummy when you aren't playing an informed slot.

I'll use my Voted read as an example. In addition to the things I've mentioned there are a couple things going on with him such as the contrast between his initial calm reaction when his wagon peaked and the survivalist push he made on salad afterwards. So 1, it could be seen as a playstyle difference (goes along with my theory of Voted +coaching, possible SE). His disinterest in wether scum was voting him or not is +scum, scum!him would already know if this is true or not so may not be bothered with soring out motivations or intentions. His unvote on salad when Vedith posted intent to hammer could go either way I guess. No one has really come to his defense so normally I would like to think he's town being left out by scum to cook but his pressure flipped onto me when I pushed further so I can't really ignore that and call it town.

[RCEnigma]

Dunno how that turned into a case on voted, I got a little sidetracked I believe.

[RCEnigma]

People who are trying to scum hunt
-TTTT
-RCEnigma

UNVOTE: maybe I'm over thinking and it's just an oversight kind of thing.

So, I kind of like voteds last post. But I sprung up as a counter push to Voteds wagon and it's got me thinking.

Well, you slighty look like a scum who is pretending to help town hunt scum.

Things like this definitely don't help your case.

[RCEnigma]

What VCA?

[RCEnigma]

There weren't any assumptions made based on it so I don't think I mind.

[RCEnigma]

So salad + nav were already on the wagon when Vedith backed off voted to join mine and TTTT backed off Voted soon after. Only recently did he rejoin voted. I don't think it's to frame me on a town voted flip.

If that's the case he could have done the same with Voted/salad to set voted up day 2. Salad is looking like the compromise lynch right now and scum could use that if both salad and voted are town to chain Lynch.

[RCEnigma]

Was that a response to my question? I'm super confused

Somewhat.

[RCEnigma]

Was that a response to my question? I'm super confused

Somewhat.

Can you reword that post? because I'm not sure who parts of it are referring to

He being TTTT.

[RCEnigma]

I think I have a decent amount of games with Vedith. He town tells extremely hard which unfortunately makes him a highly probably night 1 kill.

[RCEnigma]

Clearly town.

[RCEnigma]

Well the good news is that only 2 of the SEs can be scum at most. Vedith is the only player in the list that I'm familiar with and I generally read him town. Besides that I have to evaluate each slot based on their play for this game and this game only.

I could probably meta dive TTTT but it's not my strong point if they aren't games I've actually played in with them.

[RCEnigma]

It's a moral dilemma. As an SE I don't want to encourage policy lynching even with the possibility Salad is scum. But to then say his low information play doesn't make him possible scum and therefore a good lynch would be disingenuous.

Again he almost always ends up as the compromise lynch and it looks like it's heading that way anyway. I just don't want salad to be discouraged and not play again if he is actually town and hangs.

[RCEnigma]

Feels like it.

[RCEnigma]

So we could vote salad, TTTT, voted in any order and the game ends. Probably.

[RCEnigma]

I townlock TTTT.
I am doing it to pin out the fact that he is trying to direct the converstion in constructive way.

In what ways? I think TTTT has a pretty weak iso tbh. I feel like he may just not be invested in this game tbh.

[RCEnigma]

Ok so there is now a mechanical reason TTTT and voted are not together that we can talk about tomorrow. Siri remind me.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah day 2, don't nk me please, it makes sense.

[RCEnigma]

I think everyone is scum except for CC and mkm, maybe datisi.

[RCEnigma]

Actually this is near perfect setup-wise for town outside of like 1 scenario I can think of off the top of my head. So I'll place intent to hammer by this time tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

I'm killing you tonight for that comment alone.

I think we both know who the nk is and it isn't me.

[RCEnigma]

Good. But just for good measure, why?

[RCEnigma]

Then yes.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah, I’m really bad at catching up since everytime I check this thread I have to read 3 pages to get full context. It’s even harder since I never read the first half of the day.

you have 24 hours from this post to ooze town or you die
here's what you do...
read the damn game
post your general thoughts on each player
like what are their motivations based on their play
don't worry about explaining everything or sounding scummy
just post your thoughts
if we have questions we will ask
if you do this and you are town we will most likely figure it out

What are your thoughts on each of the players? Thoughts on Voted (whom I presume is your top scumread) lock towning you when I can guarantee he doesnt know what any of your reads are?

[RCEnigma]

Ok so there is now a mechanical reason TTTT and voted are not together that we can talk about tomorrow. Siri remind me.

I've seen "mechanical" used in mafia threads before, but I'm really confused by what you mean by it here. Maybe I've been misunderstanding what people mean by it?

Mechanical isn't the right word here as I'm being facetious but there is strong reasoning that is antitown to discuss today. I think however that if one of the SEs is scum, the game gets harder day 2. Especially if we hit town with our Lynch today.

However if things play out well in the night we could corner scum off Voteds Lynch regardless of his alignment. I get that vague is scummy or whatever but I'll put things together day 2 hopefully in a way that doesn't screw town over.

[RCEnigma]

Sure, I'll hammer when nav picks up his prod.

[RCEnigma]

That was more towards voted. I can't say I don't think you're scummy though. What do you think about the game salad? Do you think scum are voting you at the moment? Who do you think is town? Was the text in your role pm red?

Ok, let’s start with these.
1. I think I’m gonna get lynched before day 2.
2. Yeah, to jump on the bandwagon to appear less scummy.
3. Most of the people who aren’t lynching me.
4. No.
Right now I’m just facing the consequences of not committing to the game early, seeming as scummish as Voted and Navneet.

So this is less relevant no without context.

When these questions were asked the salad wagon was: CC, TTTT, Datisi, Voted, with intent from Vedith and Myself. Do you mean scum was on at the height of your wagon or that they are still on after it died? Mkm* is the only slot that didn't cast a vote on you, would that make him your only townread?

[RCEnigma]

I had just typed up the hammer. I'll give it till my shift starts.

[RCEnigma]

8 hours.

[RCEnigma]

That was a pretty townie catch up not gonna lie.

[RCEnigma]

@RCE
are you confused by the NK?

Not really, he's generally a good night target and I don't generally see him make it to day 2 often. That's as either alignment though. I do feel bad as I may have influenced that kill when I said he becomes a really easy read later in the game.

[RCEnigma]

If that's a setup to say you tracked me or something, you can put that scumclaim right back in your pocket tyvm.

[RCEnigma]

I'm still going to be vague here because there is still an important piece involved that I don't want to force to out. In short I saw something that I semi strongly believe TTTT would have too. Voted then made a counterintuitive play that doesn't happen if TTTT relayed that information in a scum pt. The kill being Vedith also kind of alleviates my suspicion on TTTT with the rb comment. Don't think he says that as scum.

[RCEnigma]

Also the voted being the prime Lynch regardless of alignment thing. Unless the team is exactly TTTT+Salad then the voted wagon was probably 1 on/1 off which puts 1 scum between datisi/navneet.

Obviously that's fmpov but I did push that idea selfishly to narrow down who I have to hunt in to secure a scumlynch day 2.

[RCEnigma]

Do you guys still think salad is just awkward scum?

[RCEnigma]

I'm sold on nav scum.

[RCEnigma]

I'm actually at a block because I don't know how to analyze this. No hammer on salad means he's either scum or both scum are in his wagon already. However 2 of 3 voters were nonvoters day 1.

Salad!Scum would mean CC is probably the partner but I'm fairly confident there is 1 between datisi/navneet. TTTT is locktown to me based on the nightkill.

I don't have much outside of that.

[RCEnigma]

Because 3 of the 5 votes are cleared or dead unless what I and TTTT picked up on was completely accidental. So CC+Salad or the wagon was 1 on 1 off.

I can't assume both cases simultaneously.

[RCEnigma]

For whatever it's worth...
I'm not sure that the mystery RCE is talking about is the same thing I'm talking about
bc I don't think I should be conftown from his POV
unless he's seeing something different

Actually given the setup you may be right and I hadn't thought it through fully but bringing up setup A was unnecessary as scum unless setting up a fake claim. Which I tried to get ahead of considering I thought you were trying to fake claim tracker.

[RCEnigma]

Doubtful this happens tbh.

[RCEnigma]

MJL can we get a readslist before a quick hammer can happen?

[RCEnigma]

Maybe I'd be of more help if i understood what you and RCE keep hushing between yourselves

1. I don't even know if we are talking about the same thing
2. Either way it's anti-town to discuss it (bc scum maybe don't know what I think I might know)

No we are on the same page here. Fwiw I think Nav tried to set up a play today that contradicts and pressure there is much obliged.

[RCEnigma]

My current thoughts are Salad/CC as one possible scum team, or Nav and, by some process of elimination, MJL. (SE's still seem pretty Townie to me so far) Nav attacking Salad doesn't seem like SvS to me. I know the first scenario is in contradiction with the me/Nav one on/off, but eh, the best I got so far.

Well that's the thing. I don't know for sure but I made the assumption the teams could be salad/CC or one on one off meaning some combination of those two slots with you or nav.

I'm still trying to slim down the likely combinations to make the best decision I can. And I think Nav covers most of the bases.

[RCEnigma]

The only thing that gives me pause is that Vedith didn't really greenlight a scumread on Nav and I feel he would have had a better read on Nav than me. It's why I kind of pressed Vedith to focus there.

[RCEnigma]

So my issue was 1.) The 1 on 1 off theory and 2.) That salad was just newbtown being run up for a mislynch. I would think having salad as a partner would push the remaining scum to get hyperactive to make up the slack but that may be faulty logic, it just comes down to playstyle and I believe both scum are new players.

The readslist helps a lot actually and I'm willing to hammer salad. This game is solved fmpov by tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

I think you're reading the wagon the wrong way but a flip clears things up either way.

[RCEnigma]

Sure VOTE: Salad we should have some twilight time while Micc is busy.

[RCEnigma]

like what do you think of RCE pushing a Nav lynch as the counterwagon to Salad
but then jumping on that chance to lynch Salad
I even moved my vote to Nav

I think Nav is more likely scum. Both have scum equity but salad is going to be an extremely easy push for scum if he's town in a Mylo situation where it actually matters.

I'm confident I can make my town case tomorrow and TTTT's as well. In the event I go down I think TTTT can piece together the game with help. And the converse is true. As a matter of fact if salad flips green then I have the game solved.

[RCEnigma]

TTTT should be townreading me for the same reasons I'm townreading him based on the gamestate day 1 and 2 but I think he's out gaming himself based on his perception of the setup.

Tomorrow we can massclaim and it should be pretty clear what's going on.

[RCEnigma]

Hope we play again bud. I look forward to it.

[RCEnigma]

Huzzah! Good win guys and gals.

[RCEnigma]

Ty Micc for modding.

[RCEnigma]

No u.

[RCEnigma]

So TTTT picked the same post from MKM as a cop soft, day 1 I tried to like jump on top of it and move eyes the other way. Then TTTT comes out day 2 and immediately goes "Vedith kill probably means roleblocker" and I played up how town he was because I thought he was doc that saved Vedith N1 and got blocked.

So all in all spot on reads lol.

[RCEnigma]

I feel for you nav, triple scum rolls is rough.

[RCEnigma]

It was a good read and I think you both did great. I still can't pinpoint why the post I pointed to as a slip stuck out so much but you fended well nav and your mini catchup day 1 placated me so I didn't want to continue pushing.

Clarity was just so cheery, no way I Lynch someone that happy.

[RCEnigma]

I would have saved you Vedith, I always do q.q

[RCEnigma]

My only advice, if it isn't a red check, town has literally no idea who scum is. We're headless chicken in an open field.

Wait that's not advice just an observation.

Never panic is what I'm trying to say.

[RCEnigma]

It was pr spec that would have been bad to get into but it was setup in a way that I never believe a claim coming from nav.