Newbie 1926: Baseball (Game Over)

[u r a person 2]

PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BAAAALLLLL!

Is how I would have started this game if I were the mod =P

You dorks don't even understand how excited about baseball starting I am
The trees and the flowers bloom to celebrate each new season
The earth itself warms with each heater that's thrown
And the summer days themselves slow to a crawl because as every baseball fan knows, there's simply no reason to rush.

I live and breathe the Yankees and this is gonna be our year, so in this game of games I present

Spoiler:

also
VOTE: marcus

[u r a person 2]

sorry i meant dork affectionately

[u r a person 2]

ya rvs

lot's of people don't like it

I get a lot of my best reads from it

How do you feel about voting marcus or shoshin rn?

[u r a person 2]

i believe you, duckling!

[u r a person 2]

shoshin not so much

[u r a person 2]

look fellas, they turned two!

[u r a person 2]

look fellas, they turned two!

Imma do these all game btw

[u r a person 2]

I like where my vote is and I can play ball and chew gum at the same time

why were you so eager to get into this game?

[u r a person 2]

yeah Bono

no

[u r a person 2]

@onob what pinged you about Marcus?

pick any of his posts, they're all bad!

[u r a person 2]

yeah but do you see how rigidly he /in'd

it wasn't like /in newb

or /in next

it was the very rigid /in for newbie

It's like how I knew I was in trouble when my mother called me by my full name, You Are A Person Jr, all spelled out

[u r a person 2]

Are you saying I should town read you because you voted for yourself?

[u r a person 2]

I like where my vote is and I can play ball and chew gum at the same time

why were you so eager to get into this game?

also, shoshin, if you could answer this please?

[u r a person 2]

I'd normally ignore the question in 29 & 44 but since it's a newbie game I'm going to answer: Me & Duck have been hyped about this game for weeks.

Your first post just seemed odd to me from that perspective tho

like you're excited to get into play, you get in and you play - you make an rvs vote

but if you're goal is to show yourself as excited to play - excited to not be scum - then you enter the way you entered

Why is self-voting a town tell for you?

[u r a person 2]

The broader point is that it's anti-town to prolong RVS.

Yeah you're welcome for me getting us out of it btw <3

[u r a person 2]

The broader point is that it's anti-town to prolong RVS.

Yeah you're welcome for me getting us out of it btw <3

That was me, not you.

Chicken or the egg


I disagree with you entirely about self-voting but interesting argument.

[u r a person 2]

The broader point is that it's anti-town to prolong RVS.

Yeah you're welcome for me getting us out of it btw <3

Are you saying you were intentionally acting scummy so that I'd put a serious vote on you, thus getting us out of RVS?

Ah no, that's not what I'm saying

I did expect calling tw town and you not town would inspire a reaction

and it did

[u r a person 2]

yaya 2 in

Marcus325
Robotnick2
ScreamingnoodlesmallChicken
GodmidSCorpSCilla

[u r a person 2]

Lavender's town?

yah i think probably. not a strong read

[u r a person 2]

actually i think it is a decently strong read

[u r a person 2]

ehh maybe not quite so strong

[u r a person 2]

i think scum is less likely to come in and not vote

and i think scum is less likely to not vote after i approach them in a friendly manner and suggest votes

[u r a person 2]

you seriously saying you don't think that content is ai??

[u r a person 2]

what about you, duck? what do you think about lavender

[u r a person 2]

minimum 1 scum in godmid + robotnik, and it could just be both

Never in a million years am I lynching TW

Never today am I lynching shoshin or whig

someone asked me why I town read TW and it was because I was hoping he was town and wanted to get things moving

Thankfully, he is super town. This is his Socratic-inspired style of town play

VOTE: godmid

[u r a person 2]

you know you had exactly 1 post when i made that post, right? lolol

[u r a person 2]

no, i no longer think shoshin is not town as stated in 105 and earlier.

I was happy with my vote because your opening was weird given you don't seem to know TW and because I was never really scum reading shoshin to begin with

Now I have two slots I feel are better votes than you. Whatcha think about that, Jack?

[u r a person 2]

Why Lavender, Ryno?

[u r a person 2]

okay, how about other thoughts on the game

[u r a person 2]

okay, how about other thoughts on the game

Is it bad that I don't have many more thoughts? I'm new to this, but it seems very early in the game to me. Even if I did have a read on someone, I think I would wait in order to not point it out to them, else they might stop doing it. I want to just watch everyone from the shadows

If everyone played like that, there would be no game. =/

And how would people town read you? You can't catch scum if you're getting lynched

[u r a person 2]

I can tell you from experience that people make alignment-indicative posts during rvs, and that new scum players have frequently been caught off of their first post in the last 20 or so newbie games. I think it's happening this game, too.

Also, it's my opinion that it's never a good idea to refuse to engage with someone you are scum reading.

If you are correct, and they are scum, you can ask them questions about their reads. if they cooperate, that can be analyzed post flip. If they refuse, it helps you lynch them.

If you are wrong, and they are town, refusing to engage with them takes away the single easiest path to a correct read. It also tends to piss people off, which makes working with them more difficult if/when you do correct your read.

Just friendly advice that you have no obligation to take~

[u r a person 2]

QUAck

[u r a person 2]

I do not understand the scum read on Lav. Please explain

[u r a person 2]

And the whole, seems like they want to be seen as helping isn't doing it for me so either flesh that out so i can see it or show me scum!lav some other way

[u r a person 2]

Duck, what's your read on U2?

Town but weak
I think his realtimes were within his scumrange but less likely to come from scum!him, his lazy townbin on me is believable but not convincing, and the fact he's not exciting the gamestate is pinging me slightly

other slots I want more pressure on tho for now

wbu?

Why should I excite the gamestate? I think the team is Godmid + denmen for the greeting tell - twice from denmen's slot lol

How about that, eh?

[u r a person 2]

I've also been lowkey signalling that I felt this way and I'm wondering if it is too much for me to expect that you would pick up on it, but it doesn't seem to be represented in your read on me

[u r a person 2]

Hello everyone.

Hey team.

Heya!

This one also occured, but I'm town reading Ryno. I don't agree with his approach, but the thought process and approach feel genuine, and I'll be surprised if it was all scum trying to get town cred for inexperience

Hello, friends!

[u r a person 2]

I don't think it's solved, but it's a solid enough basis for a day 1 lynch and I'm feeling pretty good about you and shoshin. This style isn't one I expect from scum you because a) I suspect you wanted to try it because shoshin and I were in the game and b) It's a great way to get shoshin and I a bunch of town reads if you are scum

Lemme go take another quick glance at Lav but I think their response to (i think it was) Ryno's pressure was super town? It was basically, hey, engage with me

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, mate. You know how I don't like self defense posts or really engaging with scum reads on me? If I didn't have that aversion, I would approach it like Lav approached ryno.

It's not omgus, but there is a little bit of half-spoken scum read for ryno not engaging and it reminds me a lot of my own play when I don't want to pronounce a scum read on someone because I'm trying to get them to engage with me and I'm trying to reel them in like a fish on a line

and the whole thing seems like a very nuanced approach for newb!scum

[u r a person 2]

Oh and I agree with you on needing more from whig/replacement to shore up the day

I don't have town reads on marcus or whig really. I was headed towareds one with whig but he poofed. So if I'm whiffing on my SRs, probably scum in that couplet

[u r a person 2]

talk me through marcus town read?

[u r a person 2]

Eh? How do greetings correlate with being mafia? I've never seen this before in my experience

Go take a gander through the newbie games listed on my wiki.

At least for new players, greeting the thread in the first post is pretty heavily scum-indicative. It's not absolute. There are false positives, but it's something like twice as likely to come from scum than from town

[u r a person 2]

I think it takes a lot of new players some time to get comfortable with their scum PM

Their early awkwardness manifests in them not being able to figure out how to start a post, and some sort of generic "hey guys" is a common result. It's a sub section of the more general newbie-scum-make-awkward-entrances tell

[u r a person 2]

No, there's nothing wrong with introducing yourself. It just happens to be scum-indicative in new players.

Why don't you tell us who the obvious scum are, Shoshin?

[u r a person 2]

why losing the town read on urist

[u r a person 2]

[quote="In post 232, the worst"]GERTING TREL

lololol you can mock it all you like~ It's great for these newbie games

[u r a person 2]

Funny you say this cause thats exactly what I was just doing lol
So out of the 3 games I checked 2/5 greeting posts were scum

You make a good foil to my laziness

URAP do you have a dataset or just personal experience? no idea if loopdan does

I think you mean TTTT?

Some statistics have been amassed but I am not going to share them with the public at this time

[u r a person 2]

urap if you had to pick a game of ours to compare your play here to which one would it be? why should I townread you for that?

(sorry for the annoying question. )

uhhh probably the newbie game I recently replaced into and then said I had caught the scum team in my first post

You probably remember it. In reality one of them was a pr and we ended up with a town win

Diff between here and there is that since I started this game from the beginning and because I've been busy, I didn't blow up the thread as soon as I noticed it. Figured I'd let a little more happen, but then i wanted to engage you because duckling =/

You probably shouldn't town read me off of that one game's similarities, tbh. =P

There are probably better players than me to ask about how to read me - hey, you're one of them!

[u r a person 2]

oh do you mean one that you and I played together? I dunno, but those are also stale meta at this point.

I'm sure there are similarities between this and that BoP game we finished recently, but that setup inspires unique play by design

[u r a person 2]

urap2 is mostly basing his opinions off of everyone's first posts

not true

there is a reason why i scum read you and I scum read denmon, but town read ryno

The first posts are like hey, you should look more carefully here

so I do

But I put my reads on one leg at a time like everyone else~

[u r a person 2]

I also find the worst's reaction as a bit odd. Phrases such as "if I was scum" or "I'm bad at alienating people" seem like common phrases that reds may use to seem greenish in their posts. He also said that he will read the post later, then proceeded to talk about the post 7 minutes later. Very odd, hmmm O.o

My opinion is that TW is town, and that common phrases are exactly that - common.

If I was scum, this is the kind of argument I might make to push TW here.

It's not actually, I just wanted to use those four words in that order.~

[u r a person 2]

I actually do think it's +discord -sorting

what is and what do you mean

[u r a person 2]

yeah, mate, that slot got a red pm. I'd put money

[u r a person 2]

yeah, mate, that slot got a red pm. I'd put money

I'd put money on it*

[u r a person 2]

gimme godmid and if wrong i'll sheep your reads 100%

[u r a person 2]

TW, I'm loving what you're doing right now. I have thoughts but I want to see where this goes. =)

[u r a person 2]

@brass btw as a baseball fan, this flavor has really made me smile, <3

Now if only the yankees could stop injuring themselves =/

[u r a person 2]

I think you've reinforced what I already believed - that Lav is town. Don't you agree?

Also, why do I need town cred? do you honestly believe I'm a good lynch target today? Over gotmid and denmon? I don't think so..

[u r a person 2]

engaging you, straight answers without embellishment. You're asking Lav to analyze specific posts about a null read, right. So by definition Lav didn't get much from them

And consistent with that Lav didn't try to make anything up, just gave you what they had.

[u r a person 2]

and it's not in a vacuum, Lav has been engaging with people all game. Never shying away from it. Town slot

[u r a person 2]

oh when did we get down to under 3 days?

I guess today's the day I push godmid to a lynch

[u r a person 2]

Lavander, Shoshin, and Urist

I'll be focusing on getting you three to vote godmid so I hope you will engage with me

[u r a person 2]

I'm going to but I'm still waking up

Watch this space

[u r a person 2]

before we start, shoshin

can you tell me if you are town reading all of {Lav, TW, Shoshin, ME}?

That's my town bloc and if we disagree there we should work on that first

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

Hello everyone.

I wasn't expecting to find myself in a game so suddenly and I'm going to bed soon

, so I'm not going to be able to post much tonight.

However, I do want to check in at the very least.

Before I get off, I'll comment on Shoshin since she seems to be the main focus currently. Shoshin's self-vote at the beginning of the game wasn't something that I thought anything of. If someone wants to make an argument as to why this is indeed suspicious, go for it, but I don't see any connection between a self-vote and being mafia. Now, having said that, the defense she gives seems more significant...

Why is self-voting a town tell for you?

I wouldn't self-vote as scum because I wouldn't want newbies to get the idea that self-voting is scummy or harmful. I self-voted specifically to show them that it's NAI & harmless. I've been making a big deal about this lately in other games & the mafia discussion forums.

If Shoshin is telling the truth here about strongly believing that self-voting is NAI and she is trying to push for this opinion, it makes a lot of sense that she would be less willing to do it as scum in a newb game since it would likely influence the opinions of newer players against her own position. As such, if this is the case, the two possibilities are that either Shoshin is town and that she is attempting to use her personal meta as a way of clearing herself, or she is mafia and she is willing to influence the opinion of newer players in a way that she believes to be detrimental to good play.

Both of these possibilities seem quite dirty (using personal meta to clear self vs encouraging a belief that she sees as harmful).

@Shoshin, do you think that this is a fair assessment? If not, why?

Anyways, I'm getting off now.

I'll give myself an avatar tomorrow so I'm easier to tell apart.

Night.

I think the bold portions of this post are scummy.

-The greeting tell is scum-indicative in new players. That's a fact.
-The rest of that first couple lines screams awkward!scum, and so does the "Anyways, I'm getting off now"
-The analysis of Shosin is "I don't see any reason why this is scummy, and it must come from either town or scum. It's

dirty

though, so you should make sure to unconsciously discount your opinion of Shoshin."

[u r a person 2]

To follow up on this...

I think it's okay to consider the possibility that I'm scum as long as you keep your focus on what's probable over what's possible. I don't think using personal meta is "dirty" & I encourage everyone to use it. Why do you think it's "dirty"? What's your experience with mafia?

Of course I'm considering the possibility that you're scum. Having said that, the reason why I wanted to comment on your defense for your self vote was because it did seem like a fairly compelling argument as to why you are more likely to be town. I wanted to dig at it a little further and get a response from you to get a better feel as to whether you were being genuine, more then feeling any actual displeasure towards the use of personal meta, which is the section you chose to focus on.

While I am going to stick by my assessment that doing that type of gambit as mafia in a newb game is a bit underhanded, I am leaning town on you currently more then anyone else.

"I'm going to keep my options open so I can vote you later, but I'm town reading you right now so please don't scum read me."

[u r a person 2]

To be clear, the fact that you are new to forum mafia and are therefore going to be less certain in your reads is something that I am very much taking into account. However, the issue I have isn't so much that you aren't being active enough in scum-hunting, since you are answering questions when asked. It's that when you have been answering those questions and giving opinions, your opinions seem to have a "not suspicious" bias towards them.

This is the same hedging as with shoshin. Rest of the post is nai

[u r a person 2]

@Shoshin: As the other SE in the game who has played with urap2 and The Worst, do you find the behaviour they've shown this game to be consistent with their normal play? Particularly on The Worst's unwilligness to peg anyone as a scum lean besides writing every other player down as a town lean and urap2's willigness to not really impact the game due to first post reads?

@The Worst: You seem to be trying to push myself and Denmon as the most likely scum team. However, as far as I can see, you haven't given a reason for finding me scummy besides leaning town on most of the other players. Are you going to make an argument against me specifically, or are you just basing it off of process of elimination?

@Ryno: Same general topic as before. You opened up the game by criticising the use of tells, then soon after tried to build a case against Lavendar using tells. Were your opening criticisms your genuine feelings?

I don't think any of these questions are in good faith.

If you're going to make a meta case, why not go do the meta? Also, it's clearly a tilted phrasing

The question to TW implicitly shades PoE as a reasonable strategy and tries to lock TW into that framing

And with ryno he is continuing a push onto lynch bait

[u r a person 2]

due to my inexperience with the site, I am still forced to consider the possibility that we are all town I am presenting myself as scummier then I should and that your reads are more accurate then mine.

I am painfully aware of the possibility that both you and urap2 are town and that the entire basis for my read is incorrect. This type of D1 reading is something that I haven't done much for a very long time and, regardless of how this game goes, I am going to be treating it as a learning experience.

I haven't committed to focusing on you on urap2. This is because due to my lack of on site experience, even if my beliefs do hold weight, I'm not entirely sure how to approach differentiating you,

I don't think this is every instance, but please for the love of god guys understand that he's new to this site and that's why it's okay that he's holding reads that you might find scummy

[u r a person 2]

Ryno - I'll try to make a fuller case as to why I lean town on him later, but the general idea is that I found the way he oppened to be very bold and not at all what I would expect from someone new to FMs if they rolled mafia.

This read does not mesh with the line of questioning from Godmid to Ryno.

[u r a person 2]

Generally,

there is a ton of over explaining going on.
And, continuing with my computational bent, his post lengths are long and his sentence structure is generally short, and both of these were relatively strong indicators in that big paper and data set in MD a while back


Someone tell me why my scum read is wrong

[u r a person 2]

Yaassssssssssss

[u r a person 2]

Teacher you have perfect timing mate

[u r a person 2]

I think I've asked this a few times, can someone point out the benefit of lynching someone today when we could wait for more information?

I'm going to let someone else go through the details because I'm sure they will do it better than I would, but rest assured that lynching d1 - even mislynching d1 - is +ev for town

[u r a person 2]

I live and breathe the Yankees

I was at the 96 series and actually believe I started the “throw him out” chant about the Braves manager. But \_o_/

super jealous =P

[u r a person 2]

I think I've asked this a few times, can someone point out the benefit of lynching someone today when we could wait for more information?

I'm going to let someone else go through the details because I'm sure they will do it better than I would, but rest assured that lynching d1 - even mislynching d1 - is +ev for town

I’m assuming he meant real life day rather than game day? But yea, no lynch in a 7-2 is terrible play.

I'm pretty sure he meant game day

[u r a person 2]

@Mod Considering the recent replacement, and that Easter falls on the final full North American day of this phase, could we get an extension of 24-40 hours?

[u r a person 2]

duck, you told me earlier that you would tell me why marcus was town later.

It's later and marcus is gone, so how's now sound?

[u r a person 2]

hmmmmm

[u r a person 2]

TW you feel very content this game

[u r a person 2]

I think my read on the rising star might have been premature

[u r a person 2]

but you're voting godmid and have been all game

and I really like godmid for scum

[u r a person 2]

uuuuugggghh

[u r a person 2]

TW how would you feel about lynching denmen today instead of godmid

[u r a person 2]

ftr i won't accept positioning on my slot. commit to a scumread or realise that i'm town and resume scumhunting pls

are you scum reading me? or do you think i'm positioning as town?

[u r a person 2]

are you looking for more on marcus?

not if you didn't have more

[u r a person 2]

ftr i won't accept positioning on my slot. commit to a scumread or realise that i'm town and resume scumhunting pls

are you scum reading me? or do you think i'm positioning as town?

I'm pretty sure you're town reading me which means you're snapping at a town read over a few posts of paranoia

[u r a person 2]

I'm pretty sure you're town reading me which means you're snapping at a town read over a few posts of paranoia

(which doesn't feel very town)

[u r a person 2]

i don't scumread you no
i'm snapping because i think your paranoia is misguided

It didn't work =/ It felt like that BoP game where I found myself asking you why you were yelling at me

[u r a person 2]

i'm not yelling at you! i just want you to check yourself.
you don't understand why i found that vexing?

not really. It seemed brash considering I had just gave a strong reason for town!you

I think scum god!mid basically clears you, like 96%

[u r a person 2]

scum god!mid

how..

scum!godmid

[u r a person 2]

if you're concerned about your read on me or my approach to the game i'd rather you talk through it rather than say "hmm maybe i townread tw too preemptively"
latter is only effectively rhetorically, and if you're not using it for positioning scum can
talking to me about your concerns is +sorting

I told you that you feel very content this game

and you told me it was because you

were

basically content

Like the positioning of saying that i need the towncred, and then like "I guess I don't hate greeting tell" into I'm going to vote there for the rest of the day and basically never argue with any of this idiot Person's reads

I'm feeling like I'm suffocating on pocket lint kinda

so help me work through that

[u r a person 2]

like I said, I think a red flip here basically clears you

Speaking of flips,

Unless Brass says otherwise, this day is ending early morning monday and Sunday is a holiday, so people shouldn't expect a lot of movement in the last 24 hours.

Basically, if anyone doesn't think Godmid is the right lynch today, they would be well advised to start pushing their pov asap

[u r a person 2]

also yes i'll vote denmon happily

happily like you don't really have a preference between the two?

or happily like [fill in the blank]

[u r a person 2]

Choo choo I take as a reference to scum joining a town wagon. But I’m just sharing how I read this.

the three of us played a game where TW was scum and railroaded a lynch through in a couple hours. Shoshin was in the game as well, but never got the opportunity to post.

Urist was saying that TW didn't feel like he did in that game.

[u r a person 2]

I townread both, but I have seen both powerscum like this.

hey, i've only ever been scum once and we lost in spectacular fashion. I shouldn't have to meet a proficiency burden like the rising star over here =P

[u r a person 2]

secret alt time i guess

[u r a person 2]

Then for my final claim, I am not a power role.

This is the lynch today, and I really don't know what you guys are thinking to be bouncing around. I won't be around til later today

[u r a person 2]

I don't understand why you guys are seeing godmid's recent posts as town indicative??

[u r a person 2]

I'm not hammering this, and I'm not a fan of how it went down generally. We have 48 hours from when Brass finds a replacement for shoshin.

Let's talk to the rep

[u r a person 2]

Are you second guessing your TW read again?

Yeah I guess I am.

I read Godmid's recent activity and thought, "okay, good talk. Let's hammer this" and then the wagon fell apart and I don't see a clear reason as to why.

Which makes me think that there's a scum motivation for pulling off. And if I had to pick who that scum would be it would be TW

But I could absolutely see the scum team as denmon + godmid (which is why associatives bad d1 blah blah) but in that world I'd just be more comfortable over all with godmid.

I guess a red flip from Denmon clears TW more than a red flip from Godmid at this point, but I in the world where only one of them flips green, I think Denmon is more likely to be the green flip.

[u r a person 2]

what's the count? I can't commit to being here before deadline so if I really have to change to denmon, now would be the time

[u r a person 2]

oh right we got 2 days, nm derp

[u r a person 2]

i forgot about the two days. gonna let cj catch up

[u r a person 2]

whoever scum are, they're posting well
I'm suffering from wanting to townread nearly every slot when I go back and read ISOs

Duck, how am I supposed to NOT scum read this kind of stuff from you?

[u r a person 2]

it's a bit concerning that you're cherrypicking largely aside parts of my iso and ignoring the bits where i'm CONSPICUOUSLY AND LOUDLY INTERACTING WITH EVERYONE AND TRYING TO SOLVE THE GAME

I'm getting the same pings as the last time you were scum - some things just a little bit, off, and just a bit pushy with a bit of a bite

I don't actually see much effort to sort the game. I've seen a lot of asking me what I think and then kind of semi sheeping it, and then this weird move off of godmid

and the idea that I should be town reading you for asking questions and being active while we both know that I know that you can do that as either alignment and while you're sitting there with your freshly minted Rising Star banner is ????

[u r a person 2]

Like the absolute best reason to town read you that I can think of is that I think godmid is scum, and if you were scum partners, you likely wouldn't let him keep posting walls

and that is so reachy

[u r a person 2]

can you case where you think i've been less solvy than usual?
i think i'm somewhere between my socratic approach a la our first newbie game and my standard approach to town which i'm wondering if you've even seen - maybe starcraft 2 though i was experimenting a bit there as well

i'm not telling you to townread me for activity.
i'm telling you to read my relevant posts, and read those.

this is the same issue i'm having with a lot of players who claim to 'tone read' me. my tone is so heavily mood reliant, as soon as you guys see what you consider a "decent" scumgame from me you randomly scumread me off weird tonal pings at the exclusion of what i'm actually doing in the game. :/ due respect but it's really boring to play against.

i hate to play the "CASE ME, COWARD!" card, but. case me, coward.

I mean, I am casing you.

You sheeped my greeting tell while calling it anti-fun and saying "you don't hate it"

you sheeped my lav read

both of these felt like pocket attempts

Your only real reads this game are a town read on shoshin that didn't waver even as shoshin flaked and a sudden, and fmpov unwarrented, new town read on godmid

There's a bite to your tone when interacting with me that echoes your last scum game

Yes, you're asking questions which is +town but it's super surface level compared to the reasons i'm scum reading you

[u r a person 2]

if you don't think
- my interactions with godmid are genuine sorting
- my turn onto denmon is anti-associative
- my read flip and discomfort on urist (whigslot) is anti-associative (accept me/marcus is viable coaching)
- my flip flopping and confusion on how to read ryno is legitimate
- teacher and i are scum together
- shoshin/cjv and i are scum together
- we're not literally scum together

you think either 1) i'm scum who's performing gOd TiEr distancing which we both know is outside of my scumrange or 2) i'm probably lolbussing in a newbie game

appreciate this is a lot to dump on you at once but i want you to explain to me how i'm scum via either play or gamestate and all i'm getting from you is paranoia and tonal shade

I see you as viable scum with godmid, urist, shoshin

[u r a person 2]

(also i think i'm pretty obviously not scum with lavender; forgot to even mention her )

why are you not scum with lav? I forgot to add this but this is also a viable option

[u r a person 2]

lol we both just forgot lav existed sorry lav

I guess that might be a good reason for you to not be partners

[u r a person 2]

after end of BOP2 you have to realise scum!me attempting to pocket you would be nigh gamethrowing

you pocketed me in your other scum!win against me so like how is this even a statement you can make

[u r a person 2]

This is your vote on Godmid. It comes before mine, but there is no scum read attached.

Spoiler:

I forgot I wasn't voting. My bad.
VOTE: godmid

Gonna shake things up.

minimum 1 scum in godmid + robotnik, and it could just be both

Never in a million years am I lynching TW

Never today am I lynching shoshin or whig

someone asked me why I town read TW and it was because I was hoping he was town and wanted to get things moving

Thankfully, he is super town. This is his Socratic-inspired style of town play

VOTE: godmid

But then, with your vote on godmid you don't address him, or ask other people about him until

Spoiler:

Duck, what's your read on U2?

Town but weak
I think his realtimes were within his scumrange but less likely to come from scum!him, his lazy townbin on me is believable but not convincing, and the fact he's not exciting the gamestate is pinging me slightly

other slots I want more pressure on tho for now

wbu?

Why should I excite the gamestate? I think the team is Godmid + denmen for the greeting tell - twice from denmen's slot lol

How about that, eh?

They're both not townreads so I don't dislike that I guess. still, this game doesn't feel totally solved fmpov so I'm a bit confused by your confidence this early. could you towncase lav for me?

Need some whig goodness in my life rn

ok. I just went to put my vote on the player I'm already voting. Yeah I feel okay about this as well.

so you can say that you just organically came to the same reads but it feels like you just sheeped me

[u r a person 2]

{tw} locktown
{urap, shoshin} strong town
{whig, marc} townreads
{lav} leaning town

I don't really townread Ryno tbh I just don't think he's associated with the players I actively scumread :U if Lav reds I'd be tormenting him bc his push on her looked overconfident/bussy

DENMON and Godmid (+ Lav and Ryno) if you guys are town please help me solve this game because I feel markedly less confident T_T

talk me through marcus town read?

that's a thing I will do before eod

And here you had a town read that was stronger than your explained Lav and Ryno town reads but by the time later happened you had no recollection of that read. Not sure it existed

[u r a person 2]

lol we both just forgot lav existed sorry lav

I guess that might be a good reason for you to not be partners

i mean that
she's also very likely town
and i'm anti-bus particularly in newbies and even more particularly for firstgamers
i also like distancing

so me forgetting to have a read on my newbie scumbuddy who was #goodposting and brave then leaning on you (wildcard factor) to point me in the right direction would be both derp-positioning my own partner and highly associative which are both things i think i'm smart enough not to do randomly half way through d1 with you on the prowl

yeah okay, all of this is true

[u r a person 2]

given you're now on the lookout for me pocketing you and have just lost a game to me due to extremely heavily positioning you, do you think i lack self-awareness to the extent that i'd go in for three cheeky pockets in a row?

I mean, yes. Yes, of course I do. You're trolly af and proud of it (and usually pretty funny, too)

[u r a person 2]

why do you think i voted godmid....

pedit: correct.. when you asked about marcus i couldn't remember off the top of my head.. which is why i asked you to point me to where i talked about the thing you wanted more information on

I think it was an early distance. When I revealed the greeting tell you weren't like "oh yeah cool I scum read him too"

you were like, well I don't town read him so I guess I don't hate it."

I don't think you're really trying to assert that you were scum reading godmid at that point, are you?

[u r a person 2]

why do you think i voted godmid....

pedit: correct.. when you asked about marcus i couldn't remember off the top of my head.. which is why i asked you to point me to where i talked about the thing you wanted more information on

great, so do you remember now, having looked back at the context?

[u r a person 2]

yes but i'm not aggressively bad at mafia
nancy is a valid example - in starcraft i positioned her for a mislynch for aaaaaages then went in for a lategame pocket
then the last two games since then i've gotten away with lolpocketing her because she's been expecting me to refuse to townread her as scum

scissor paper rock analogy, i like being funny but i like winning games as well. i don't do downright idiotic stuff to players who know what to look for.

this is pretty WIFOMy though and we suffer from the bookend that how i'd approach this as scum doesn't matter. i just think your sr on me is a little lukewarm

I don't think you have a choice but to pocket me in a newbie game, let's be real

[u r a person 2]

the fact i outright called the greeting tell unfun and said something along the lines of that i was tolerating the fact we had a similar poe should probably give away that i wasn't sheeping you
like
i voted him first
we talked about it and were both scumreading him

Why is this not exactly how you would attempt to pocket me? Are you really going to go full ham in agreement? I don't see that as any more likely a tactic than distancing from the tell itself while still sheeping

[u r a person 2]

i'll give you two solutions:
1) "ah tw is voting godmid because we both scumread godmid"
2) "tw is voting godmid because he's scum distancing from scumbuddy!godmid yet doesn't bother doing anything while lolbussing his newbie partner and coasting through the gamestate leaving him exposed and then we spoke about reads and he didn't HAVE a read and then he sheeped an holistic meta tell which i believe in and he doesn't and he's definitely sheeping even though he voted there first"

this dichotomy is disingenuous

[u r a person 2]

Wild shot here: how would you expect town!worst to behave to you here?

I would expect him to be pushing his reads.

I wouldn't expect him, at eod, to not be pushing his preferred lynch, Denmon.

This game was coasting to a godmid lynch when I asked if TW would be willing to vote denmon and he was all "I'd happily vote denmon" but hadn't pushed it at all

Maybe both godmid and denmon or town. It felt like tw didn't have a real preference until after that point when he realized he had boxed himself in to pushing denmon

[u r a person 2]

what does this mean? because it feels like a thinly-veiled insult

It means that you're not going to push my lynch D1 in a newbie game as SvT, right?

So you either would have to night kill me N1
or pocket me so that I'm not pushing you d2

And since you'd probably like the option to PR hunt, you're inclined to pocket me D1

[u r a person 2]

Why is you guessing my scumread and voting him ahead of me scumcasing him based on an holistic meta tell you don't give a shit about not exactly how you would attempt to pocket me?

Like I'm not saying you guessed the read to pocket me, again being disingenuous

I'm saying that you had an unexplained vote that you didn't interact with or about

And when I gave a scum read on him you said "i don't town read him, so i guess i don't hate it" implying in it's most charitable interpretation that you did not have a strong scum read on him, but more realistically that you weren't scum reading him

and you were going to change votes to him, but you didn't even know where you were voting so you couldn't have been that mentally engaged with that scum read

And you have to get town reads from other people as scum, too, so like I don't see why you would be more likely to enthusiastically endorse it

and I really don't like how you're debating in bad faith here. sorry you rolled scum =/

VOTE: TW

[u r a person 2]

it's because your case on me is not only wrong, but also ridiculous

I think you're just scum, duck

[u r a person 2]

Teacher, thoughts?

[u r a person 2]

Putting my confidence level at 80-85%

This flips red a lot

[u r a person 2]

Can I get updated reads on TW from everyone who checks in please, actually?

[u r a person 2]

You say I'm being rigid and conf-biased, and maybe I'm wrong. I'll read back through later, but I still want everyone's thoughts.

But I don't think that's really fair and I don't like how you're painting this as a tunnel and having no merit when I think there's a lot here and I have been actively trying to sort you. Even going so far as to bring up new reasons to town you in the middle of our back and forth

Spoiler:

Like the absolute best reason to town read you that I can think of is that I think godmid is scum, and if you were scum partners, you likely wouldn't let him keep posting walls

and that is so reachy

Yes, you're asking questions which is +town but it's super surface level compared to the reasons i'm scum reading you

lol we both just forgot lav existed sorry lav

I guess that might be a good reason for you to not be partners

lol we both just forgot lav existed sorry lav

I guess that might be a good reason for you to not be partners

i mean that
she's also very likely town
and i'm anti-bus particularly in newbies and even more particularly for firstgamers
i also like distancing

so me forgetting to have a read on my newbie scumbuddy who was #goodposting and brave then leaning on you (wildcard factor) to point me in the right direction would be both derp-positioning my own partner and highly associative which are both things i think i'm smart enough not to do randomly half way through d1 with you on the prowl

yeah okay, all of this is true

Putting my confidence level at 80-85%

[u r a person 2]

Well I guess I'm honored to be compared to mastina, but literally the only partner that this push makes sense for me to make with is you, so like I don't see how you're going to scum read me here, and I really don't think you scum read me here as town =/

[u r a person 2]

i'm just stuck in a vacuum of frustration and a kind of repulsion at being incorrectly accused

Like, out of game if this is true I'm sorry regardless of your alignment =(

Let's hear what others have to say

[u r a person 2]

okay back to godmid

VOTE: godmid

townbloc [teacher, ceejay, lav, ryno]

[u r a person 2]

Lavender died because there is minimum one scum in {TW, Ceejay, Urist}

I'm a big fan of a mass claim in this situation. Day before lylo, minimum one PR out there.

Thoughts on this, teacher?

[u r a person 2]

i forgot cj was shoshin. CJ is town

[u r a person 2]

if tw is town, {ryno, urist, denmon} probably contains two scum

[u r a person 2]

why cj?

[u r a person 2]

Teacher, I think you'll find that I advocate for a mass claim day before lylo basically always. I think the pros way outweigh the cons in a newbie game, and I trust myself to weed through the bullshit if it is laid out in front of me. It locks scum in and forces them to decide if they are going to cc someone while we still have the ability to flip both halves of the cc if necessary.

But I'm not going to fight about it here

[u r a person 2]

Also, side note, I like the play of leaving both TW and I alive if TW is town and scum expected me to come into today pushing him hard.

[u r a person 2]

And I especially like it if this is a wholly or partly se scum game.

Looking at you, Urist

[u r a person 2]

I'm sure there is one. If not in the newb queue, then outside of it, but the case for doing it is only stronger in this setup anyway.

The point is that right now we either need some spicy claims, or we just need to lynch in either the town!tw or scum!tw worlds. I don't really see other viable realities.

[u r a person 2]

which is your preference of the two

[u r a person 2]

scum expected me to come into today pushing him hard.

Why would scum expect that?
What would the scum motivation of TW be for trying to derail a green wagon that would get him little suspicion?
Sure, white knighting is a thing and the green flip doesn’t clear him, but it’s certainly not +scum for him.

Uh, I think scum might expect me to come in pushing him because I pushed him for a couple pages right at the end of the day and then only pulled off because you said not today?

[u r a person 2]

and yeah, because I had said that a red flip clears him, implying that a green flip does not.

[u r a person 2]

Did you not read me as intending to push TW today given a green flip?

[u r a person 2]

teacher has done his homework =P

[u r a person 2]

well, if you're waiting for my opinion, I choose denmon over urist i think

[u r a person 2]

TW who do you prefer of those two?

[u r a person 2]

Wanna know how to get me on board with a ryno lynch, Urist?

Town case TW

[u r a person 2]

also denmon

[u r a person 2]

DENMON and I have had very similar reads throughout the game so far, and hopefully my flip would clear his. His D1 case against TW and Urap were bad, but I believe their motives came from more town than scum. Other than lack of experience, activity, and charisma, I do not see where DENMON comes across as scum-alligned.

specifically, I would like to see where and why you believe their motives come from a town mindset.

[u r a person 2]

and if you get through all that, pick me up a large cup of cookie dough ice cream

then i'll vote Ryno with you

[u r a person 2]

I'm gonna slam this. denmon, thoughts on the game, reasons why i shouldn't vote you, etc?

[u r a person 2]

i would really like some more from denomon, cj and urist before slamming this

i also kind of want to switch to ryno

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: denmon

[u r a person 2]

ok

gl everyone

[u r a person 2]

so if this is green, you're pegging {urist, ryno}?

[u r a person 2]

And I was saying if this is green, I thinks out are way better than me and had a good vibe on tw. My Vca has him and Denmon as opposite alignments.

can you rewrite this i don't comprehend

[u r a person 2]

are you telling me I've been softing cop to cover for teacher who was softing cop lmaaaooooo

ok massclaim is now optimal

I'm vt

i realized this after the lynch went through.

I am VT

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: cj

good check ryno

[u r a person 2]

gg everyone.

TW, I was scum reading you for a hot minute during our exchange, but then i reveresed D1 and decided to keep up the sus because i kind of pegged you as PR

[u r a person 2]

both checks were good, ryno, imo

tbh there were a lot of good checks this game.

I didn't want to push this read (and i'm glad i didn't) but I had pegged shoshin more likely to not see her replacement as town since i figured there would have been maf thread activity

[u r a person 2]

if you're offering

[u r a person 2]

i had a good reason to scum read shoshin on her first post. should have stuck with it.

yeah, we shouldn't have lynched godmid, and that was entirely on me