Newbie 1926: Baseball (Game Over)

[Lavender]

It began! But are we voting right away or something?

[Lavender]

Oh, never mind I saw RVS.

[Lavender]

ya rvs

lot's of people don't like it

I get a lot of my best reads from it

How do you feel about voting marcus or shoshin rn?

Hm, atm they just seem like they are gathering reactions, so I don't feel anything particular

[Lavender]

I'm also going to be explaining my reasoning a bit more than usual for everyone's sake. I'm serious when I said U2's scum. His suggestion that I'm scum while voting someone else was awful, & I'm skeptical that he'd completely ignore my self-vote as town. I'd appreciate if all of you responded to this read with your thoughts.

It didn't seem all that suspicious to me, since the self-vote was slightly strange to me. That just might be my lack of experience though.

[Lavender]

UNVOTE:

@Lavender, mind if I quiz you on this?

Oh, never mind I saw RVS.

Firstly thanks for having a look a the theory brass posted--hope it was insightful!

Did you not feel the need to participate in rvs? Why/why not? Did you trust what shoshin, whig, urap2 and I were doing?

ya rvs

lot's of people don't like it

I get a lot of my best reads from it

How do you feel about voting marcus or shoshin rn?

Hm, atm they just seem like they are gathering reactions, so I don't feel anything particular

Did you like any of our reactions more than others? what were your reactions towards:
- Shoshin's self-vote?
- urap2 considering me town but being less sure on shoshin?
- whig's contributions so far?
- Marcus' opening post?

If you don't have feelings on some of these that's fine. Even if it's just a gut feeling or a question, every bit helps!

First question, well I'm not sure how to do rvs well or in a way that is good. Basically, I don't want to get in the way.
My reactions for those are:
Shoshin-Slightly weird for self-voting but it might just have been to get things started.
Urap2-Seems ok atm
Whig-Is new like me so it seems like he is simply trying I think.
Marcus-It was strange and seemed to suggest the worst was scum, I'm not sure if I should take this like a simple rvs.

[Lavender]

If I made a guess, then Whig, since they seem okay and trying to contribute. Imo Shoshin is slightly scummy only because of the self-vote, I don't think town would self-vote, but I might be wrong.

[Lavender]

If I made a guess, then Whig, since they seem okay and trying to contribute. Imo Shoshin is slightly scummy only because of the self-vote, I don't think town would self-vote, but I might be wrong.

I dont believe scum would want to put themselves in the spotlight like that otherwise but i don't know im only new at this lol

That's true I guess, I am also new at this, so let's try our best and learn right?

[Lavender]

Man you are literally

the worst

@Lavendar,

My reactions for those are:
Shoshin-Slightly weird for self-voting but it might just have been to get things started.
Urap2-Seems ok atm
Whig-Is new like me so it seems like he is simply trying I think.
Marcus-It was strange and seemed to suggest the worst was scum, I'm not sure if I should take this like a simple rvs.

You gave three slightly reasoned arguments for your reads here but nothing for urap2 - why?

I didn't really find anything suspicious at that time, looking back, they're are some posts I had no clue why they asked or for what reason and seemed weird, maybe to get more responses I guess? I skimmed part of it when Urap2 and Shoshin were debating.
Now that I'm more awake I read it more thoroughly though.

[Lavender]

Godmid, The reason why I don’t seem like I’m actively scum-hunting, is because I do not want to make someone stray from a correct read with my unsure reads.
And Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions? If so I am simply trying to be helpful. If not and it’s something else like my reads, then you can make an assumption that I want to please. If it’s neither of those then can you tell me what made you think that of me?

[Lavender]

Godmid, The reason why I don’t seem like I’m actively scum-hunting, is because I do not want to make someone stray from a correct read with my unsure reads.
And Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions? If so I am simply trying to be helpful. If not and it’s something else like my reads, then you can make an assumption that I want to please. If it’s neither of those then can you tell me what made you think that of me?

It might be that you genuinely want to help, but I get the feeling that you want to seem like you want to help.

Ok, but can you to tell me where you get this feeling from? Of how I want to seem like I’m helping?

[Lavender]

Godmid, The reason why I don’t seem like I’m actively scum-hunting, is because I do not want to make someone stray from a correct read with my unsure reads.
And Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions? If so I am simply trying to be helpful. If not and it’s something else like my reads, then you can make an assumption that I want to please. If it’s neither of those then can you tell me what made you think that of me?

It might be that you genuinely want to help, but I get the feeling that you want to seem like you want to help.

Ok, but can you to tell me where you get this feeling from? Of how I want to seem like I’m helping?

I can't tell you without potentially helping you, SCUM!

That's quite bold, can you tell me where I have been scummy, this will also help yourself in persecuting me, and perhaps let myself resolve your misunderstanding about me being scummy.

[Lavender]

Just saying I'm scum on a feeling with almost no back-up is kind of redundant. It really doesn't help anyone. Also on your, RVS point, it may or may not be flawed, but it's a starting point right?
It does not necessarily mean no information whatsoever. Since some tells are in the beginning :/

[Lavender]

Godmid, The reason why I don’t seem like I’m actively scum-hunting, is because I do not want to make someone stray from a correct read with my unsure reads.
And Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions? If so I am simply trying to be helpful. If not and it’s something else like my reads, then you can make an assumption that I want to please. If it’s neither of those then can you tell me what made you think that of me?

To be clear, the fact that you are new to forum mafia and are therefore going to be less certain in your reads is something that I am very much taking into account. However, the issue I have isn't so much that you aren't being active enough in scum-hunting, since you are answering questions when asked. It's that when you have been answering those questions and giving opinions, your opinions seem to have a "not suspicious" bias towards them.

First question, well I'm not sure how to do rvs well or in a way that is good. Basically, I don't want to get in the way.
My reactions for those are:
Shoshin-Slightly weird for self-voting but it might just have been to get things started.
Urap2-Seems ok atm
Whig-Is new like me so it seems like he is simply trying I think.
Marcus-It was strange and seemed to suggest the worst was scum, I'm not sure if I should take this like a simple rvs.

The answer that you gave to this is that you are worried about leading people away from a correct read. However, are you really that worried about swaying people that heavily just by giving an opinion?

It is how my mind makes of it, I not saying swaying heavily, just leading to the wrong path. I will give more opinions now and be more assertive with people saying I should as it helps with reads and can make me have a bit more tell.
Active scum-hunting, how should I do this? Ask questions and accuse? If so then I will try my best.

[Lavender]

Well I really want to ask why Ryno has any big evidence for voting me and such. But they seem very inclined not to give that information.
Godmid has stated why they have voted me, so I won't ask why they have voted me.
Shoshin seems to just testing my reaction, though I am unsure if that's the case.
Hey, Ryno, if you may, what are your reads at this moment?

[Lavender]

Welcome, Denmon o/

Ryno, if you're worried about lack of chat, then how about ask some questions? Also to be completely honest, I don't understand your logic that well.

Don't want to tell you atm. I doubt I can convince the group for to do a D1 lynch so it doesn't help to spill the beans. Just - see if you can read it yourself and let me know

Why should I tell you NOW? As opposed to later?

If they do find your read and let you know. Then they will tell others too. So why say, let others read their take and show everyone else, and not just let yourself reveal your read?

[Lavender]

*ahem*

RYNO'S MASTER PLAN:

My aim was to push a scum into frustration by accusing them with little/no reason. Lavender was the victim, and I think it payed off. They very quickly became fixated on WHY I was reading them as scum, which comes across to me as the 'scum newbie annoyed they got caught out early in the game' and they wanted to know if I genuinely was reading them (and if so, HOW ON EARTH) or the self-assuring knowledge that I was bullshitting. All of which seems like scum-thinking to me. Plus the lynch votes probably made them nervous/backed into a corner. There's a tendency to run away with worry - 'oh no, i'm suspected from the start, i'm going to get lynched'. A townie would be much more focussed on making their own reads. See the following...

'Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions?'

'Can you tell me what made you think that of me?'

'Ok, but can you to tell me where you get this feeling from?'

'That's quite bold, can you tell me where I have been scummy?'

'Well I really want to ask why Ryno has any big evidence for voting me and such. But they seem very inclined not to give that information.'

'So why say, let others read their take and show everyone else, and not just let yourself reveal your read?

I hereby rest my case against Lavender. Although, I would suggest that with only 2 scum, we don't need to lynch until F5.

Therefore, UNVOTE: Lavender

"A townie would be much more focussed on making their own reads."
Sure, I suppose so right? But obviously a townie will also ask why they are being accused for little to nothing. Of course I would be confused why somebody just suddenly says I'm scummy. Since you have finally revealed the plan, it seems you were actually trying to Scum-hunt though.
It is rather different to anything I have seen but it is pretty interesting. Right now to me, you are null atm.
If you can provide more content it might get to town-lean. (such as other reads)

[Lavender]

Sorry, I'm back. Had a lot of homework yesterday, let me catch up.

[Lavender]

Ok, so I read it all through, the most suspicious to me with wagons is Marcus right now. VOTE: Marcus
They seem kinda helping, but it doesn't really feel like it exactly. Hey the worst what do you think of them?
(I gtg for about an hour or two)

[Lavender]

Spoiler:

Besides tone-reads, I just feel that the current wagons are half RVS, half halfarsed (Lavender/Godmid) and that D1 has been TvT with scum sitting on the sidelines, with people's scumreads developing from newb!town mistakes, rather than genuine scum motives.

Yeah I'm feeling the same I just can't find a confident scum read this early

Looking through the posts I find whig and godmid slightly scummy as their posts seem to just be content and not really contributing.
Slight scum lean on uap2 due to info stated in post 106
Not sure on ryno and lavender but leaning more town than scum
Robotnick's posts were gathering info more although they had limited posts so slight town lean on Robot/Denmon

I'm reading mostly town on the worst and shoshin
VOTE: whig

Besides tone-reads, I just feel that the current wagons are half RVS, half halfarsed (Lavender/Godmid) and that D1 has been TvT with scum sitting on the sidelines, with people's scumreads developing from newb!town mistakes, rather than genuine scum motives.

Yeah I'm feeling the same I just can't find a confident scum read this early

Who are your confident townreads? Working backwards to a pool of ~4 people and working through it from there is a totally valid strat

My most confident townreads would be TW and Lavendar
Not sure about anyone else
I had townread Shoshin but don't know what to take of recent silence
I've had a negative view on uap2 for a while but probably starting to lean town now
Ryno seems townish
All the rest are null

It's mostly these posts, obviously they can actually be good and I'm making a mistake Orz. if I have to be honest, I was wavering between voting Godmid and Marcus, but Marcus had no votes if I can recall? So I wanted a slight reaction just to get something and actually vote someone. What about you and your stuff?

[Lavender]

Orz, I am unnoticeable not back anymore.
It is true finding scumreads in early game is difficult, still Day 1 after all.

[Lavender]

Don't worry about it It's hard even for experienced players haha.

Do you townread everyone outside of those 2? I'm finding myself in a spot where I townread most of the list.

Let's see Denmon, Ryno, and Urist is null right now atm.

[Lavender]

yeah, mate, that slot got a red pm. I'd put money

I'd put money on it*

!bet DENMON Town bread 5

I actually do think it's +discord -sorting

I agree with this statement, but not what came afterwards. I feel it comes from more newb!town than scum with agenda. If the latter is what we're going to talk about, this ain't the only case for this game.

re-readlist;

{the worst, Lavender} town
{u r a person 2, Shoshin, DENMON, Godmid} probably town
{Ryno56, Marcus325} scam

There's not much to explain. Reads are tonal, with Ryno and Marcus having the most pings (forced/unnatural reactions, non-town alligned agendas,).

Teh wus gives that genuine 1905 IC vibe, and not the choo choo vibe.

Lavender/DENMON/Godmid have town vibes (ie, not Ryno/Marcus vibes), and their "anti-town" actions don't fall off newb!town range for me.

Urap town vibe, but I don't agree with his reads or too much emphasis on intro-tells.

Shosho's a bit mixed, but I'll talk about that later.

Besides tone-reads, I just feel that the current wagons are half RVS, half halfarsed (Lavender/Godmid) and that D1 has been TvT with scum sitting on the sidelines, with people's scumreads developing from newb!town mistakes, rather than genuine scum motives.

@Lav do you read these posts as town or scum?

The first one just seems like a fun thing, not too scummy, not townie either.
The second one I didn't really understand, what's the statement about? "I agree with this statement, but not the latter", what's the latter here?
Ok, finally the third one. I'm not sure what 1905 IC vibe and choo choo vibe are. The amount of misspellings confused me. But, It didn't feel too scummy, but I wouldn't say too much town either.

[Lavender]

Urap2 your case on Godmid seems solid, I want Godmid to respond first on the claims before I change completely to get their opinions first.
Shoshin, can you tell us your most recent reads before you get more inactive?

I forgot I wasn't voting. My bad.
VOTE: godmid

Gonna shake things up.

And first vet out of null for me.

Is this a town lean or scum lean?

[Lavender]

Thanks for the explanations cleared up a lot of confusion.
Also vote count seems glitched up.

[Lavender]

As I was reading through, Denmon seems more suspicious then Godmid. Godmid is doing something at least, such as kind of scum-hunting while Denmon's seems rather line sittey.
VOTE: Denmon

[Lavender]

...I guess I am really Unnoticeable...XD.
Anyhow, are we gonna lynch Godmid or Denmon?
Mostly skimmed the worst's and Urap's debate.

[Lavender]

|.o) Good job town!

[Lavender]

does anyone want any post-game feedback btw? I used to do huge write-ups when I was Inexperience Challenged (IC) in games but it feels a little weird doing it unprompted now

Sure!~

[Lavender]

alright i got this
sorry for the delay, got a bit busy on friday + yesterday

i'll probably be a bit less verbose because i'm exhausted but hope some of this helps.

@lavender

Spoiler:

you played well! i think your head was pretty much in the right place as far as being obviously-towny and also solving the game. i think your 39 was pretty astute (just projecting for a moment that you were basically saying you didn't think Marcus or Shoshin had produced content that made them any more likely to be either town or scum; this was a good pickup when Shoshin was being incorrectly townread).

the slot we mostly tried to work together on (and didn't get very far) was Marcus' slot. i felt bad for throwing out weak reasons for townreading him around 302ish and then moving on but i had a theory he might be a town power role and didn't want to pressure him too much. sorry it's a little tricky to provide exhaustive feedback--in the case of Godmid I went back late d1 & after the lynch and noted where I went wrong so that I could fix myself next time. whereas with you i think i was more or less townreading you the whole way through, just a little nervously. until urap backed that up and i sheeped his reasoning.

this is gonna sound funny after the running joke this game about your invisibility...but! the main thing i'd say is that you'll benefit from experience and confidence.

a few times your more read-/opinion-heavy posts had a qualification of "i think ___ but i'm new so i'm not sure" -- which is really natural. but i think sometimes, especially when you have a strong feeling about something, double checking and second guessing your own reads can cause you to kinda hold back or feel less confident, be too quick to change your mind on something you really believe, etc.

[contextual personal story which can be skipped]
i sometimes, particularly last year, do the same thing - i have a pretty strong opinion on something, but i don't feel all that great about it so i kind of inadvertently qualify it with an "i'm not sure", or a "does anyone think i'm crazy?". one of my favourite mafia players of all time brought it up to me and i started checking myself for it. i know it's only a minor thing, but the moment i removed the overqualifying "but i'm not sure" and "maybe i'm wrong here" language from *most* of my posts, i started to feel more confident about my own
reads.
[/contextual personal story which can be skipped]

when you're town, often those moments of "I think something is suspicious, but I'm not sure if I should be thinking this" can be gateways to your strongest reads: i really liked that you were happy to voice those reads in the thread. i also think you'll soon have the experience to back yourself up on those feelings. for example in here

Shoshin-Slightly weird for self-voting but it might just have been to get things started.
Urap2-Seems ok atm
Whig-Is new like me so it seems like he is simply trying I think.
Marcus-It was strange and seemed to suggest the worst was scum, I'm not sure if I should take this like a simple rvs.

i wrote shoshin's self-vote off as "slightly towny because she's kicking the game off by drawing attention to herself". but this wasn't actually a conversation which ever happened in the thread, and it might have been beneficial for someone who disagreed with me to bring it up with shoshin

otherwise your discomfort around marcus was good, and going by the tone of this post i think you were kind of posting already knowing that most of the people you were talking about were town. if that makes sense.

sorry this post is pretty rambly, and probably not super helpful. you played well especially for a first game, so it's a little tricky to exactly qualify areas for improvement. in a couple of games' time (i'm psychic and know we'll play again soon) i'll have a firmer grip of your playstyle and i'll be able to give more pointed advice than "believe in yourself~~~~!" )

i failed "less verbose"

Thank you for your feedback XD