Newbie 1926: Baseball (Game Over)

[Ryno56]

Hello, friends! Just caught up on the thread. My gut feeling is...

VOTE: Lavender

[Ryno56]

Gut feeling is gut feeling, unfortunately. Maybe it's the way they seem too eager to please.

[Ryno56]

okay, how about other thoughts on the game

Is it bad that I don't have many more thoughts? I'm new to this, but it seems very early in the game to me. Even if I did have a read on someone, I think I would wait in order to not point it out to them, else they might stop doing it. I want to just watch everyone from the shadows

[Ryno56]

Godmid, The reason why I don’t seem like I’m actively scum-hunting, is because I do not want to make someone stray from a correct read with my unsure reads.
And Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions? If so I am simply trying to be helpful. If not and it’s something else like my reads, then you can make an assumption that I want to please. If it’s neither of those then can you tell me what made you think that of me?

It might be that you genuinely want to help, but I get the feeling that you want to seem like you want to help.

[Ryno56]

okay, how about other thoughts on the game

Is it bad that I don't have many more thoughts? I'm new to this, but it seems very early in the game to me. Even if I did have a read on someone, I think I would wait in order to not point it out to them, else they might stop doing it. I want to just watch everyone from the shadows

If everyone played like that, there would be no game. =/

And how would people town read you? You can't catch scum if you're getting lynched

I think you're assuming that I won't play at all - I'm saying that there isn't much to go on initially, as in for the first few days. That's why RVS exists in the first place, right?

[Ryno56]

Godmid, The reason why I don’t seem like I’m actively scum-hunting, is because I do not want to make someone stray from a correct read with my unsure reads.
And Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions? If so I am simply trying to be helpful. If not and it’s something else like my reads, then you can make an assumption that I want to please. If it’s neither of those then can you tell me what made you think that of me?

It might be that you genuinely want to help, but I get the feeling that you want to seem like you want to help.

Ok, but can you to tell me where you get this feeling from? Of how I want to seem like I’m helping?

I can't tell you without potentially helping you, SCUM!

[Ryno56]

I'm not going to repeat myself again haha

[Ryno56]

As a general point, isn't RVS entirely flawed? Scum can simply use a randomiser to accuse people, hence it doesn't provide any useful information whatsoever

[Ryno56]

It just feels like whatever tells we are grasping at are very, very minimal. I've only played this game IRL so feel free to prove me wrong, and I know that even attempting a read on someone is better than doing it randomly, but it feels like we're barely helping ourselves by doing so, or at least that this process is more complicated that it needs to be. I get that discussion is better than nothing, but as long as the scum as reasonably competent, they can use external sources to more or less randomise their responses to certain things are make themselves unreadable with relative ease.

[Ryno56]

*and make themselves

[Ryno56]

I understand and respect your points. I agree that being seen as uncooperative is a bad thing, although I must admit that the idea of having make up reasons to justify various points for the next 9 days is a little... daunting. Maybe all we're doing here is trying to generate conversation, about ANYTHING, in the hopes that a player will slip up and tip us off that they are scum. That seems better than literally not talking, but it also seems fairly fruitless (i.e. it has a low chance of actually working).

Of course I agree that bad players can be read. Maybe the fact that this is a newbie game means that we will all be much more likely to slip up, but everyone in here seems to be pretty experienced. I'm simply dubious about the idea that someone relatively competent (50+ online games) can be read with any significant degree of success. That's partly why I'm here, it's an experiment to see if such a thing is possible.

'Online, though, the expressions and idiosyncrasies of players become much harder to determine. You cannot, after all, watch as a player stutters to say something they know is not true - you just see the carefully vetted message at the end. This is why most people are simply not good at forum Mafia, and as a result Mafia tends to win quite a bit more. As a result, online games tend to feature more power roles in hopes of giving Town a better chance than they normally would have. '

This is from the Wiki, and it's a viewpoint that I agree with. I think reading people here will be very hard, but I'm willing to try, of course, that's why I'm here after all.

Sorry about derailing the conversation.

[Ryno56]

All players are readable.

Why doesn't town win every game then?

[Ryno56]

I'll give it a shot

[Ryno56]

My experience of Mafia is many many games IRL (100+) but absolutely none online. So all my physical body tells are out.

I'm more confident on Lavender now. They seem to be much more concerned with their own image than they are about finding scum. That being said, I am naturally cautious about a lynch on the first day.

Jas anyone not showed up to play yet, and is that sus? Perhaps thinking we will dismiss them as jnactive?

[Ryno56]

*Has anyone

(Is there a way to edit posts?)

Even if you can edit posts in a forum, sitewide rules strictly prohibit this for players. Mods, of course, can edit as needed, like I did here. -brass

[Ryno56]

Yeah this reply makes me definitely read you as scum, I'm ~80% confident now

[Ryno56]

Isn't that a little too obvious? In any case, I'm happy if you lynch both of us. That way we get out a scum, which is huge.

[Ryno56]

Don't want to tell you atm. I doubt I can convince the group for to do a D1 lynch so it doesn't help to spill the beans. Just - see if you can read it yourself and let me know

[Ryno56]

Why should I tell you NOW? As opposed to later?

[Ryno56]

If I thought I had a winning strategy for playing scum, I would use it and not advertise it

[Ryno56]

What do you mean coached?

[Ryno56]

Nah I don't think they're being coached

[Ryno56]

I'm repeating myself over and over hahaha. I said, the moment I reveal the tell, the scum will all stop doing it

[Ryno56]

Concerned about the lack of chat going on

[Ryno56]

*ahem*

RYNO'S MASTER PLAN:

My aim was to push a scum into frustration by accusing them with little/no reason. Lavender was the victim, and I think it payed off. They very quickly became fixated on WHY I was reading them as scum, which comes across to me as the 'scum newbie annoyed they got caught out early in the game' and they wanted to know if I genuinely was reading them (and if so, HOW ON EARTH) or the self-assuring knowledge that I was bullshitting. All of which seems like scum-thinking to me. Plus the lynch votes probably made them nervous/backed into a corner. There's a tendency to run away with worry - 'oh no, i'm suspected from the start, i'm going to get lynched'. A townie would be much more focussed on making their own reads. See the following...

'Ryno, My eager to please thing you have of me, is it because of my answering questions?'

'Can you tell me what made you think that of me?'

'Ok, but can you to tell me where you get this feeling from?'

'That's quite bold, can you tell me where I have been scummy?'

'Well I really want to ask why Ryno has any big evidence for voting me and such. But they seem very inclined not to give that information.'

'So why say, let others read their take and show everyone else, and not just let yourself reveal your read?

I hereby rest my case against Lavender. Although, I would suggest that with only 2 scum, we don't need to lynch until F5.

Therefore, UNVOTE: Lavender

[Ryno56]

"@Ryno: Same general topic as before. You opened up the game by criticising the use of tells, then soon after tried to build a case against Lavendar using tells. Were your opening criticisms your genuine feelings?"

I said the following:

'I'm simply dubious about the idea that someone relatively competent (50+ online games) can be read with any significant degree of success'

I think this forum is the result of getting a bunch of analytical people to over-analyse small things. The 'tells' we're playing with feel like almost entirely guesswork. I'm engaging with it because
1. That appears to be part of the 'fun'
2. I'm seeing if it actually exists in any meaningful sense, and whether or not I possess the ability to do it

It just feels like there's no real information to strategise with, so we basically have to invent our own game. It's weird. I'm not sure if I enjoy that.

[Ryno56]

PvtUrist reasons for read:

"no"
"no"
"no no"
"i don't even"

Great explanations, I am convinced

[Ryno56]

"The scum are starting to becoming obvious in this one. Anyone else seeing it yet?"

I'm suspecting shoshin a little. They need to be more helpful in conversation

[Ryno56]

I'm having trouble getting into the right mindset for this game, sorry.

I'm going to start putting more effort in soon.

You can't get into the right mindset yet you know exactly who the scum are?

[Ryno56]

Godmid and Lavender seem to be reactive instead of proactive, so I'm reading them as the scum atm

[Ryno56]

I think I've asked this a few times, can someone point out the benefit of lynching someone today when we could wait for more information?

[Ryno56]

I think I guess I get the idea behind not lynching but seems counterintuitive. Not overly opposed to it, but will only vote for certain people

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Godmid

[Ryno56]

Also there's so much jargon being used. It takes me around 2 minutes to decipher any post that is made here, and half of them I don't understand

[Ryno56]

Sorry if I've missed any questions. I haven't really been enjoying this game, so I haven't paid much attention to it. I don't want to quit so I'll be following kinda passively. If anyone has a question, ask me

[Ryno56]

I'm fine with lynching Godmid

[Ryno56]

I've already said what I think about Godmid

[Ryno56]

Scum - Godmid and Teacher (based on everyone else's reads, which make sense)
Suspicious - Lavender (too defensive, not proactive) and Shoshin (too unhelpful when we arent talking about him)
Town - all others

'The problem I'm having is that this site has 10 days for day 1. This is far too long for a day that had basically no information.'

I relate, 10 days seems much too excessive. I'm from Survivor ORGs which have 24 hours for voting. Maybe I'll start enjoying this more as things move forward.

[Ryno56]

the best way to make the 10 days more exciting is filling it with spicy content
even if you feel like something is a little crazy or reachy, just throw it out and see what people have to say

This reminds me of a long car journey with my parents when they tell me to 'entertain myself' lol

[Ryno56]

If you decide I'm scum then lynch me, otherwise I'll lurk

[Ryno56]

This game is too long and there's nothing to go on

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Shoshin

[Ryno56]

Well, that's embarassing.

VOTE: Ceejayvinoya

[Ryno56]

'Kay so why didnt the worst die

[Ryno56]

TW you seemed the most obvious town out of everyone. Lavender was a weird choice to kill.

[Ryno56]

Suspecting TW and Ceejay atm

[Ryno56]

No, I'm reading teacher as town right now. I will respond to this later but I'm out atm

[Ryno56]

why cj?

Reminder to self to respond to this

[Ryno56]

Actually, there's a lot to respond to through 26-28. I'll do my best

[Ryno56]

VOTE: DENMOD

I'll make my cases later, but I'm a bit busy IRL today

[Ryno56]

Lav as a nk makes some sense. I think TW was not a likely nk target - too likely to be protected. I was not, since two people were voting me and ceejay had me at null. URAP was my “likely peg.

@ryno, I find your enthusiasm to be present at daybreak disconcerting given your malaise yesterday. Can you analyze the wagon and nk?

I'll try and address everything now

First a question - why is Lavender a likely target?

Second, I don't know what you mean by malaise yesterday or enthusiasm at daybreak?

[Ryno56]

I kind of want to vote ryno.

He's been full on awkward most of the game.

Same goes for denmon.

This is literally my first game of online mafia, so that should explain the awkwardness.

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Ryno

Excuse me? Scumreads me and the worst earlier, then hops on the Denmon wagon? Woah there.

First of all, changing my mind is allowed, right? Secondly, I'm not necessarily scumreading DENMON, but I don't mind him being lynched

[Ryno56]

@Ryno, what's your current readlist? Why do you suspect TW and Ceejay? Thoughts on DENMON and myself? Why have Teacher as scum in #476? Don't need to answer all of them, just the first two would be greatly appreciated.

SCUM: Ceejay (this is more down to shoshin's posts than ceejay's posts [although these do make me feel uneasy for some reason]. Shoshin's post: 'The scum are starting to becoming obvious in this one. Anyone else seeing it yet?' which went completely unexplained is just... still sticking in my head. If he was town, and it was obvious, then he would tell us. If he was scum, he might be trying to drum up a connection in people's head that doesn't exist to throw people off him.)

SCUM: urap (trying to slip in a massclaim was really weird, feels like he's scum trying to draw out power roles. he also seems too flexible in that he wants to go along with what other people think, which I believe to be scum-indicative since it is an attempt at emotions, trying to make people feel good by agreeing with them. this is a fairly weak read but he's the one who sticks out in my head as most likely to be scum)

NULL: The Worst (still hung up on Lav dying, and he seems way too over the top with being pro-town)

NULL: DENMON ('So when I'm stuck, I usually just post for the sake of posting and I don't think too much about it. Can I survive this day and try to redeem myself on day 2? Once I have information to work with, I can actually throw some solid accusations using the votes from day 1.' This seems to focussed inwardly instead of externally, which is in my mind scum-indicative [scum want to avoid suspicion, town wants to find scum])

NULL: PvTUrist ('I ain't making it to lylo, so here's my reads before my mislynch.' I find this... weird. Again it's the focus on 'I'm getting lynched' instead of 'I want to find scum')

TOWN: Teacher (has redeemed himself in my eyes through effective scumhunting)

I'm perfectly fine with lynching DENMON, inactivity is damaging to town and I don't town-read him.

No, I'm not very good at this game (as if that wasn't obvious by this point) but these are my 'off-brand' reads. Take 'em or leave 'em.

[Ryno56]

Hopefully this clears up where I stand on things. Even if you guys don't agree with my reads, I hope to provoke some discussion and new ideas.

[Ryno56]

Firstly that wasnt yesterday, it was like 48 hours

Secondly we now have more info to work with

[Ryno56]

Is it a problem that I think we have solved the game and both wagons are on scum?

Who is scum then?

[Ryno56]

Hang on, you didnt answer my question

[Ryno56]

Why was lav killed? If based on reads, it would seem to incriminate me and Denmon. But you have me as strong town and Denmon as null.

We know the composition of yesterday’s wagon. Why are you assuming both of your scum were on it, and that both players voting me - your strong town - are merely null?

Don't know why Lav was killed and that's why it's nagging me

I don't understand what you mean by the second half of this

[Ryno56]

Well, let’s see. I said wagons are on scum. Who are the only two players w votes.

Me and DENMON

[Ryno56]

I don't know what this means

[Ryno56]

I dont know what you mean by 2-3 position and wagon

[Ryno56]

Thanks for explaining - I don't think that's concrete evidence against the pair, but that's just me.

[Ryno56]

Explained in 705

[Ryno56]

You made the right choice

[Ryno56]

Ooooh this feels good

[Ryno56]

I am the Town Cop.

I investigated Teacher, who was town.

Then I scumread Ceejayvinoya, investigated him, and yep.

Ceejay is scum.

VOTE: Ceejay

Checkmate.

[Ryno56]

If you think I was acting weird then a little of that was on purpose - wanted to avoid the mafia kill... otherwise, this was kinda fun. I definitely understand the game better now, so thank you!

[Ryno56]

It's kinda hard for me to make cases since I don't know what people are really looking for...

[Ryno56]

What were the roles and everything