Open 756: Hope Plus One (Day 5)

[popsofctown]

I followed this game a lot before replacing in. I found a lot of the first few pages pretty fascinating. I kinda had to stop reading when I saw so many big names replacing out of the game and saw the game encountering a fortnight night. Kinda demoralizing. I figured I could still help out and replace in but it's a little less exciting when the game has so little of its integrity left.
I read page 1-70~ and then 90-100. So I guess that's most of the game.

[popsofctown]

Eyes without a face

- eyes has been playing pretty humbly. The post where he sorts himself as least proficient and asks to be copped felt a lot like a townslip to me. It was just a pretty towny thought process. I don't actually have to award him points through the WIFOM of whether he expected to actually get copped, it's not necessary.
He's so humble that I can't rule out him just wanting to bunt a sacrifice play he views as helping a scumteam in someway or other, but he's far from the top of the list of people I want to lynch. Shoshin's point about how the GiF NK interacts with the slot makes sense too and can still be true even if she pasted it from the scum PT.

Creature

- Creature's grandpa used to be playing this game! Creature seems to have largely sidelined himself and failed to dig in a game full of replacements, lurkers, and "1v1 me in mid lane bro" episodes. The timing and pattern of his disengagement pretty reasonably match when I'd expect a townie to tune in more or tune out more. The disengagement makes him a bit hard to read, and the disengagement itself can't be strongly read, !scum Creature should be pretty capable of recognizing the drags. I'm pretty null on this slot. Independent of alignment, props to Creature for honoring his commitment to this game.

Egix96

- Right after this post I'm gonna iso this player. Somehow I forget all their posts immediately. I remember nine time in D1 reading "Egix needs to get copped tonight" and thinking "What's an Egix? I should probably iso Egix to have some awareness to be a responsible player. Wait I'm not playing. I don't have to do that. I can just keep reading woo"
Now that responsibility has kicked in and hes a high ranking lynch candidate today so definitely will look.

Clemency

northsidegal

CultOfAthena

- nsg seems like she would try to break the setup as either alignment, and also seems like she would get frustrated by people not breaking the setup as either alignment. She was right, and lynching wizard was wrong.
She did little enough afterwards that I'd rather just try to read this Clemency dude instead. I hear he is really good at playing Lyncher so if he can visualize his life as a lyncher with Shoshin as a target I'd dig that.

Emperor flippyNips

I'm fuzzy on this slot but not quite as fuzzy as Egix. He tends to make nonfluff posts yet doesn't actually make that much progress as I recall. I remember neither resonance nor scummy thought processes which makes me kind of want to VCA this player if I can't read him.

Titus

Celica

Miss Kobayashi Maru

- The previous slots were pretty scummy. Virtually all of the actual Titus I've read is page 90-100. And it reads bad town or scum. I actually also want Shoshin lynched, that comes later because I didn't bother to rearrange a logical order to this post. But lynching a player you think has lots of town equity just because if they are town, they're solving inaccurately, is really bad mafia. Most everyone solves inaccurately most of the time, mafia is hard. Bad TvT play happens all the time, but with the poor predecessor play I'm pretty willing to take some more conspiratorial interpretations of this (they look different with different Shoshin flips).

Iconeum

Fumuki

Buki

Skellen

-
Buki's activity level AND effort level AND townsided resonance were all massive snowballs. This player contributed to the game being fun for me to read and suggestions that <pronoun> is going to quit mafia makes me a very very sad panda.
Iconeum, it's not just the activity level. There's lots of town resonance in the posts. The activity level is just like a multiplier on how many times you got to encounter that because that how many resonant posts there ended up being.
I won't lynch Iconeum's slot just no matter what. Iconeum played pretty well in a recent game I played with him, so I'm pretty willing to sheep his slot too.

Shoshin

- Shoshin is the scummiest slot in the game by a bunch for me. Buki had it right D1, and the reasons for talking oneself out of it are fundamentally flawed. I won't restate Buki's original push.
- She started doing stuff!
Well yes, but half the time she continued to post "I'm doing stuff", "Imagine how you would read me if I was doing stuff", "And X could be scum, or X could also be town, I'm doing stuff". There was nothing like a groundfloor wagon with original thought or mounting a defense for a wagoned player. It is not the kind of stuff that makes it seem like our sample size was too small before, it is the kind of thing that makes it look like a scientist was made aware her research results were being deemed unsatisfactory
- She started engaging and enjoying the game!
This is like, backwards, this game is opposite day in lots of ways and this one is actually problematic. Having a considerably better time in the thread when you're not under pressure can easily lean scum, not town, because for scum that pressure is more stressful. And it is paradoxical and troubling to me for Shoshin to be so unengaged early on in the game, when this game didn't suck, and to start kicking it into gear later on, when this game was actually much more sucky. The potential explanations for her having a jollier time are not town-scented ones. Less pressure, cool we got a mislynch, hey the mod let me PM some friends starting with N1. It's the opposite of town slots that have gotten bogged down as this objectively vietnamified game has progressed.
And finally and probably most importantly, Dr. Worm said he investigated Shoeshine and she is scum. We should honor his memory. It's the least we could do after not giving him an opportunity to fakeclaim cop as VT.
VOTE: Shoshin
(this might change to Egix after iso but I'm guessing not)

[popsofctown]

I read Egix posts, he's pretty scummy. Kind of like a worm that hasn't flipped yet or something like that.
Not as exciting to me as Shoshin lynch.

Shoshin vindicating Worm's read is a joke or at least 80% joke, the bit about giving someone an opportunity to lie as town was supposed to make that clear. Sheeping dead townies is based on them being above average players (and I grant very very few points for that, for having a very very good record, I'm cynical) or the dead player having a logic for their read that is independently strong (less stingy for the points on that).
Worm didn't actually have good independent points on you that were memorable enough for me to remember so I'm not actually voting you extra due to Worm's last testament.

[popsofctown]

I read Egix posts, he's pretty scummy.

Kind of like a worm that hasn't flipped yet

or something like that.
Not as exciting to me as Shoshin lynch.

Not sure what you mean by (bolded)

Do you mean I'm like a worm that hasn't

turned

?

Like, light, unimpressive contribution. I would have mislynched Worm too if I was in the game, I think. The "that hasn't flipped yet" part means, like, if the mod announced Worm was brought back to life with the same alignment obviously I wouldn't vote him, but I don't think just because the profile was wrong for Worm it's wrong for you, usually it's scummy action pattern.

[popsofctown]

Why is it contradictory for me to vote you and agree with your reads if I believe all the game's correct reads are in your role pm?
You've been high pressure all game, I don't have to deep dive your games to believe you're smart enough to know to bus when likely to get lynched. It's no reason not to scumread you.

[popsofctown]

I don't think it's correct play for Egix to bus you here though. We'd probably lynch him anyways.

[popsofctown]

I replaced in knowing I hate your slot and being excited to lynch it, didn't find out more about this egix guy until I iso'ed him just now. He's the second scummiest slot in the game though. Largely by PoE.
It makes me paranoid how difficult you seem to be to lynch though.
I'm pretty happy with growlithe and shosho being the leading wagons for today, it's miles better quality lynching than D1.

[popsofctown]

I'm paranoid we lynch Egix, he flips scum, and you tank stock to end game off the cred.

If we don't massclaim and we still have a cop maybe I should be less worried about that. Bussing is really painful with these PRs. To some extent I'm waiting to sheep Iconeum and/or a verdict on massclaim.

I can UNVOTE: if you like although I really don't think you're going to get lolhammered like you think you will.

[popsofctown]

I don't hate you I'd actually whitelist you as a player.

[popsofctown]

TR:
Buki >> Eyes >> Creature . Anything lower than creature is negligible distance from null

[popsofctown]

I mean I can't count on you to selfvote in LyLo.

[popsofctown]

If you vote Egix, I add you to the list after Creature.

That's not good mafia

[popsofctown]

I'm not huge on meta. I consider his case on you regarding enthusiasm and effort to apply to a player in a vacuum pretty well.

I'm a big believer that to some extent future good behavior can't obviate past bad behavior in mafia. And much of your early posting was really bad.

[popsofctown]

Well then now that you're all cured can you link me to one of those games?

And show a departure from your "figure it out yourself" attitude you gave buki?

[popsofctown]

Ew.
Lying about your mafia experience as town is gross.
Why are you making disingenuous alts on site, then demanding people backread them to read your main accurately?
Kinda gross. Do you want to have a meta or not? If you don't keep alt spamming. If you do then don't run around lying about out of game elements to your teammates as town that's gross.

[popsofctown]

I replaced in knowing I hate your slot and being excited to lynch it, didn't find out more about this egix guy until I iso'ed him just now. He's the second scummiest slot in the game though. Largely by PoE.
It makes me paranoid how difficult you seem to be to lynch though.
I'm pretty happy with growlithe and shosho being the leading wagons for today, it's miles better quality lynching than D1.

This is a strange way of putting it... You iso'ed egix, and you think he's the second scummiest slot but because of PoE?

Maybe he's the only one I don't find charismatic.

I find most players in this game charismatic and they say a lot of mafia fallaciously centers around charisma. Which is part of why I am very worried Shoshin is gonna turn out to be the one that got away this game. Logically, not scumhunting at key times is alignment indicative. But on the emotional component her being boring early on can be negated by her being friendlier later on. But a scumtell ledger is a ledger, not the people who did or didn't grow out of their bad high school phase where they constantly told people to go sit away for the thread for 24 hours and come back when they were willing to desultorily cosign all of her beliefs.

I am ok with massclaim if everyone else is into it.

This has been drunkpops.

[popsofctown]

You do become kind of worthless in the middle of Undertale mafia. At the beginning of it you were more protown then you have been this game, as scum. It's hard to put you above null with that pattern but I get why Buki doubted himself.
You asked someone if they were an alt, while lying in a different game about being an alt. Isn't that hypocritical?
Do you want to know what my main account is

[popsofctown]

Those are like the three scummiest slots. I don't see how any of the pairings are implausible scumpairs so I want to lynch the most independently scummy among them, which is you.

It's sounding like I'm not going to get it though.

[popsofctown]

Clemency there was a D1 schema where town agreed eyes should be investigated and the cop should come forward if the result is guilty and stay mum if the result is innocent.

The game is messy enough that it's not particularly guaranteed that the cop behaved well. But it does make Eyes not an amazing EV lynch.
VOTE: Egix
If you vote Egix it's L-0 now
But Iconeum wants some more dayplay and he's a good player so I think it's a good idea to give him some.

[popsofctown]

GiF daycopped him

I'm not townreading Eyes. Can anyone explain that to me?

Sure thing.

By the way I have developed this wonderful D1 tell relating to RC.

If the player
1. knows RC
2. goes hail mary on him D1

The player is most likely town.

In seriousness though the d1 play looks a lot like Eyes is town to me

[popsofctown]

UNVOTE: sure Creature

[popsofctown]

I buy into football theory.

Shoshin you said I could burden of proficiency you on Egix can I cash that in?
VOTE: Shoshin

[popsofctown]

I think the doc should stay concealed. There's not a risk of burying their results with them like there was with the cop.

I was ok with outing the cop when we were gonna massclaim because that's how popcorn has to work but now I don't think it's optimal

[popsofctown]

Alright, fine.

I claim cop

I'll also admit that I thought GIF was the cop yesterday

Wtf is this?

Why is anyone voting anywhere else? Shoshin hardclaimed cop and then almost immediately forgot she can't discuss her d2 rolehunting if she's claimed cop??

Like.. there is no other way to interpret this. You try to read it as a joke, but then there's posts about NKs contingent on her claim... It seems like a really hard distancing gambit she pulled out her hooves because the thinks she's locked in as a lynch.

Eyes, you quoted the post where you show her lying. Why are you voting other players?

I'm going to assume Clemency is just still skimming.

[popsofctown]

No, I'm not unvoting, you've proven you can break lynch-all-liars, among everything else this game, and still have people vote elsewhere, so a lolhammer might be what it takes to kill you somehow. It'd be like uncuffing Jason or cutting one head off a hydra.

The quoted post is not troubling unless it's Egix's first game on site or something. Separating your organic elbow grease reads from mod confirmed reads gets habitual from playing games as scum far more often than cop so it seems normal to do it automatically. You could argue it's correct play to do it on purpose to not have an unnatural read progression that gets you mislynched, although I would favor risking it and making sure the crumbs are there in case you die.

[popsofctown]

Why would Titus nightkill you

[popsofctown]

There's weren't n0 investigates that was your partner list.

[popsofctown]

Ugh phone posting.

*Those

[popsofctown]

I have Iconeum above RC on my townlist

[popsofctown]

I'm in RC's slot.
The joke's not as funny if you make me explain it.

[popsofctown]

Dude if I had also eaten whatever magical berry Shoshin has eaten that makes her unlynchable no matter how she plays, I would gambit for sure. Gambit all day, gambit here, gambit there. It's like, you have an obligation to. Using 2 wishes out of a magic lamp is disrespectful to poor people who don't have lamps.

[popsofctown]

Wow. I guess she is lynchable.

[popsofctown]

Your blacklist won't do anything if we're all on secret alts where we also lie about having played on mafiascum before.

[popsofctown]

Titus you are whitelisted.
Even though I am lynching you tomorrow because I interpret the central goal of Shoshin's play today as a powerbus on you.

[popsofctown]

Are you asking for a characterization of Shoshin's play that characterizes it as good play?

Because if someone's play involves two cop hardclaims with different results and open influence peddling I'm gonna struggle to paint that picture. Irrespective of the player's meta, alignment, or partners. I'm gonna settle for something that makes some amount of sense.

[popsofctown]

Yeah.
Waiting to find out whether this twilight stuff its mindjerk stuff like Wisdom got me good with in StarCraft mafia or we actually lynched the cop.
I don't really want to commit to one, last time it made me seasick

[popsofctown]

UNVOTE:

[popsofctown]

I'm gonna go meta Shoshin's twilight.

[popsofctown]

It looks like Shoshin doesn't have very much of a twilight meta, usually surviving to endgame or getting NK'd or having the mod lock the thread promptly. I found a couple twilight posts where she was much less frustrated than here about getting mislynched as town. But it'd be reading the tea leaves backwards to say that means she'd only explode on the thread as scum. She likes playing scum less. It seems out of her range to put this much effort into a postlynch gambit as scum even if she secretly noticed the correct postcount.

I actually ended up reading enough of her stuff for it to seem like even the amount of effort she put into day2 approaches a town trust tell. Which I guess if I had read that amount in the first place might have had me somewhere different today. But like, I really resent anyone asking me to meta them. It's different if I decide to.

The weird thing is that even though I read her town now, I can't actually assume the cop claim is true. She clearly deeply believes it's acceptable to lie as town (even about elements exterior enough to the game that it's inappropriate to do so on her alts...). And it's in even more likely lie in twilight, as Worm demonstrated.
I'd feel a lot more comfortable lynching Titus rather than Egix here, if Shoshin's claim is true they're both scum, but if she is VT Egix should get to investigate tonight, at a minimum.
VOTE: Titus

[popsofctown]

Well, VOTE: Vote: Egix96.

I don't see the point in discussing much until the next day, it'd mainly give the mafia an idea of which mislynches are viable and inform the NK.

It might be optimal for the doctor to claim now, before LyLo to "lock it", or maybe it isn't, I don't really know the EV.

[popsofctown]

Sorry guys I was actually the doctor

Did you protect Shoshin last night

[popsofctown]

But Egix is a doctor. If we don't lynch him, he can protect his partner. Unless his partner is the cop. The cop is macho

[popsofctown]

After the tree-stump scum in starcraft mafia it doesn't seem that bad really.

That was a terrible mechanic for other reasons.

I think it's mechanically correct to quietly lynch the outed scum and force the mafia to NK with minimal information about where to NK.

But then again maybe not in the sense that you can "double the deadline" by spending more time on finding the other lynch.

[popsofctown]

This game is kinda boring.
I'm pretty sure Egix gets lynched and there's another 4 day night and then we lynch clem and it just flips staples easy button.
I really want one of the games I queued to fire.

[popsofctown]

After the tree-stump scum in starcraft mafia it doesn't seem that bad really.

Because you wouldn't feel bad for not lynching them.

omg triple negative. Let's see, "wouldn't" multiplied by "bad" is "would feel good"

"Because you would feel good for not lynching them".

Nah I don't think I agree with your statement, as much as it's fun to be a hipster, I get a chemical release in the brain when the mod writes a flip in red.

[popsofctown]

What's lolcat mean?

I know I'm a shitty poster.
I don't deserve or ask your forgiveness

[popsofctown]

It is difficult to ascertain who Shoshin actually investigated.

She obviously is willing to fake an investigation result to force someone to sheep her reads, Liger style.

Because mafia dayplay is hard and mechanical innocents and guilties are powerful by comparison, you only have to be fractionally sure any of her investigations actually occurred to sheep them. I'm not sure what fraction, one third sure, one fifth sure? It depends how strongly you're reading the opposite way. I'm inclined to think she investigated Titus N2. She said she did twice, more times than she says she didn't, and she'd know claiming a guilty and pushing the lynch risked getting herself mislynched, claiming different results in twilight doesn't remove that risk. So that means she had just one investigation, not 3 (lol), from night 1. Probably it was Iconeum, if you think about the trajectory of day 1 and day 2.

Her townbloc is not that bad on it's own, though. Iconeum is the only one I'd lock as confidently as she did but it's not the worst slots in the game for sure.
Iconeum is threadtown anyway.

[popsofctown]

It's a stance I've taken in several previous games, usually in the context of readslists but the same concept. You can agree to disagree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your slot is the one I like the least out of those three and you aren't really an unbiased party, so someone else will have to sell me on it. I like eyes and Iconeum for town too.

[popsofctown]

She also doesn't get mislynched much, and her reads were largely a listing of people who wouldn't lynch her, that seemed to be how she responded to a game that gave her pressure. But that's not the same thing I surmise from you reading her correctly, I find that baffling. Iconeum's progression seems much more plausible and natural. So does my predecessor's. You seemed to have the answers out of the back of the book, somehow.

[popsofctown]

pops town titus town

-
-
-

i'll take this opportunity to just
VOTE: eyes
put this where it belongs for the night

VOTE: egix
fuck it

There's other not-great-looking parts of his iso too.
He really fits the trajectory of the two scum lynches better than everyone else in thread. Predecessor wasn't spectacular either.
VOTE: Vote: Clemency

[popsofctown]

There a no lolhammer type players alive right now, except Clemency himself, so it's pretty safe to vote without it really ending the day. Otherwise I'd take similar precautions. But like obviously I need to practice using these newfangled vote tags as much as I can.


Also I'm like 90% sure it's optimal play for the doctor to claim today. If the doctor doesn't claim today, the doctor claim is useless in LyLo, the scum gets to decide whether counterclaim the doc and 1v1 him or claim VT and 1v1 the VT. If the doctor claims today, the scum cannot counterclaim period even if that player would be easy to beat 1v1.
It's gotta be more valuable than the offchance of landing a doc protect tonight. Which creates MyLo and only confirms one townie.

[popsofctown]

Clem's slot wasn't really going down when he first came in. And he's been replaced in another game besides this one (I haven't read the game, I hope that's not a rules infraction, I saw it in the queues).

So I don't think the lurking is alignment indicative but I think there's enough stuff that is alignment indicative anyway.

[popsofctown]

CC stands for "CounterClaim"

[popsofctown]

Congrats on marryage etc Ico

[popsofctown]

I started at about the same age.

Don't pick up smoking like this flippynips guy though, it's terrible for you

[popsofctown]

Oh, ok, I actually did not play that early.

[popsofctown]

"your fame"? Like, site reputation? It's better not to care what people think. Mafia is more fun if you play without an ego.

Getting BoP'd actually resets your winrate towards the mean. But I wouldn't worry about actively avoiding that happening too if you can still play to win and have fun.

[popsofctown]

It's not mylo, the town can mislynch today without losing, and then tonight's kill is a forced kill on our claimed doctor flippynipz.

Theoretically if your slot is town you could give your opinion on Creature-popsofctown-Iconeum LyLo and your reads would be validated by a green flip.


Iconeum is really low on your slot and is V/LA/prodgy territory due to being a groom (or bride? idk probably not actually matrimonially swallowing another Cthulhu monster like its profile pronoun suggests) but very well might just be willing to hammer as soon as he gets back.
But I'm going to UNVOTE: if you want to place some thoughts about the game.

[popsofctown]

I like your avatar btw

[popsofctown]

I think slightly scummy in a vacuum because most players don't really want to roll scum. But if Creature's meta is that he enjoys rolling scum it can swing all the way over to towntell.
I'm assuming you're not actually asking about Egix's post because he's dead, but I would say it's scummy that he didn't elaborate.

[popsofctown]

Iconeum is in prod range. A wedding is a major life event so that's pretty understandable.

[popsofctown]

Well of course you do. flipz is mechanical innocent. Buki towntold as much as I've ever seen a non-Innocent Child player ever do in a mafia game. So you'd only be looking at me or Godmid from your PoV.

That might help Godmid out on his catchup, I guess, @Godmid: Emperor Flippynipz is mechanical innocent, and Creature and I are both never lynching Iconeum so he doesn't have enough potential support today or tomorrow, so the only players you should really be looking at sorting are Creature and I.

[popsofctown]

Godmid's positive attitude is making me a little worried Clemency wasn't actually scum.

Probably it will turn out Godmid is just an awesome guy though.
I have some misgivings about Creature's slot but with the title "transparent" it's probably likely I'd have far more misgivings if it wasn't Clemency here.

[popsofctown]

There's nothing mechanical that makes Ico's slot seem town, it's just a popular belief.

[popsofctown]

It's largely the pivot on Shoshin that does so especially since Shoshin has since flipped town.

[popsofctown]

:claps:
FMPOV if it's not you it's Creature. It's still probably you, although reading the whole game even though you replaced into a scum slot is pretty impressive.
@McQueen: Is Iconeum going to have to get replaced? As yucky as it is.

[popsofctown]

Eyes, Ico and I are all town and we're not questioning that. I trust Shoshin here.

Shoshin doesn't get that convicted I am town when I'm scum.

I have an innocent on Icon, Eyes, and Creature, though.

We're following this btw.

I am willing to not ever reconsider Iconeum because I think that's what Shoshin deserves atleast.

If Buki later does something that makes her effectively unlynchable, there isn't any point in me keeping her as a suspect and it makes my job easier if I can eliminate a player from the PoE.

You can also eliminate me from the PoE by trusting Shoshin who sacrificed herself and was locktowning me along Iconeum.

1) I respect Shoshin, but 2971 clearly wasn't based off of night actions and I really don't follow at all how that is supposed to clear you.

It's not supposed to be a mechanical clear, but it's supposed to be a "trust me".

Also, Shoshin is pretty good, so trusting her at Iconeum and me being town, even if that wasn't a real result, is reasonable.

Why do you keep this up? Why do you keep harping on this on and on?
No player is perfect at mafia. Shoshin is at least bad enough at mafia to participate in a mislynch d2. Her read accuracy wasn't really my focus yesterday, but I did not discover her being some king of godlike glorksarian2 alignment sifter, just a player like everyone else.
Asking people to just stop forming opinions and replace their opinions with stronger players' is asinine. I should clarify that even for Buki's slot I don't want Godmid to do that, I only meant to point out to him the number of votes needed for a democratic lynch on Buki slot isn't available anyway.
You seem more and more like you're trying to vindicate a misread from Shoshin and ride it to endgame rather than legimately having a concern that discarding any of Shoshin's high confidence reads would harm our winrate.

Clemency did have logins on site after he flaked so he could have sent in a night action. I checked because I was curious whether the game he was supposed to mod would fire or get pulled from the queue. Whether he would send in a night action after he stopped making public facing posts is murky, it does seem to have some reduced likelihood. So, I guess thanks for the angleshooty help, VOTE: Creature

[popsofctown]

"her read accuracy wasn't really my focus yesterday when a did a meta dive on her" ebwop

[popsofctown]

Mistownreading someone is rare because most players are town, so a townread with no validity to its basis has a strong chance to be correct anyway. I can forecast whether there will be an earthquake tomorrow with 99% forecasting accuracy too. That doesn't mean optimistic-pops-earthquake-forecasts have inherent value.

[popsofctown]

Shoshin did not cop clear creature. She claimed 3 investigations in 2 nights as clears which is a troll.

Shoshin cleared creature as a read. She probably had no night results besides Titus, it is hard to tell since she lied about her results (multiple times). But if she had an actual mechanical clear it was probably Iconeum because after D1 that was an omgus slot.

[popsofctown]

I think her results were Eyes town N1 and Titus scum N2.

Yeah this is one of the more likely cases.

She had the fewest reasoning based reasons for townreading Eyes and she hard railed against Titus D3.

[popsofctown]

Creature idk why you are playing to the win condition "make Shoshin happy" instead of town wins when all mafia are dead but you're not going to convince the town to play to that win condition.

[popsofctown]

I'm fine with that.

[popsofctown]

It's hard to get affirmative scum cases in a gamestate with 2 confirmed town and 3 players that all win if the other two are lynched from each of those players POVs. Scumreads on other players are going to sound concocted because they are concocted, you're working from the answer that was in the back of the book and writing the steps in until they work out to that answer. And the process is identical for both scum and town so watching it carried out doesn't get you any farther either.

It'd be better to restate my concern I had with Creature's slot -before- we got in this state, which is that I found Creature's read progression on Shoshin's slot very implausible, the somehow 100% confidence she is town at all phases, which would pretty rarely happen for a townie, but especially that he somehow flipped on that massive confidence in Shoshin's twilight. The flip seemed like something !scum Creature thought he would have to post.

Godmid's been playing a good game today but all his predecessors were terri-terrible, so, I'm sure there are criticism of those slots to review.

Ultimately with 2 confirmed towns and 3 antagonistic slots it's best if you and Iconeum form your own reads and pick the two to die and win or lose the game for it. And it would definitely be best if you waited until Iconeum was fully back from V/LA to do that, it seems awful for the game to hinge on input from a guy who is popping in saying, "X got investigated right or did he, what are we doing guys?" He's not quite back. I'd really like an extension, because technically Iconeum should have been replaced and this game had a 18 day night in it anyway or something ridiculous like that so its tempo is shot to hell. I mean I don't know if McQueen is even here, there's that intermittent issue too.

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Votecount 1.1

Pretentious (3)

- RadiantCowbells, Emperor flippyNips, Skellen

Shoshin (2)

- CultOfAthena, Egix96

Dr Worm (1)

- Eyes without a face

RadiantCowbells (1)

- Shoshin

TheWizard (1)

- Baezu

Not Voting (4) - Creature, Dr Worm, Miss Kobayashi Maru, TheWizard

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

The deadline is on Sunday, April 21, 2019 at 7:15 pm EST, which is in (expired on 2019-04-21 18:15:00).

VOTE: Shoshin

Shitty wagons so far

RC, Shoshin and I are never getting lynched. Who else should join that list?

Shoshin (4) - brassherald, Dr Worm, Egix96, Fumuki

Bad wagon, mate

D1 he agrees Shoshin is scummy for fluffposting, but he doesn't actually join Buki's wagon for it.
D2 he just starts chirping that Shoshin is town, which is the same position Buki takes that day, but as the result of a meta dive and an analysis. But he provides little of his own justification for the transition. He never passes up an opportunity to tell me in this thread that he's played with Shoshin before, so he didn't learn anything D2 he didn't know D1, unlike Buki he put more time into metaing Shoshin D2 to weaken some of the points against her D1 play.

Omitted here is a D2 post saying that Shoshin's readslist his similar to his. Which is a valid town-indicative thing but weak for the confidence level he puts on the read, liking her logic would be stronger. He doesn't offer much more.

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I didn't see that we already got an extension
But not by much.

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Asking for a cop clear on Egix is something scumRC would ruthlessly and immediately do if he thought it was necessary, I hear the guy has a 5d chess scumgame so causing a player who had played a pretty weak game to get removed that way wouldn't be weird.

Asking for a selfcop clear seems like a valid reason to hesitate to scumread my slot though. Even if RC is willing to make sacrifice-bunt plays I think he'd hold off until later in the game to do them, because having only one day to scumsculpt the day is not enough to help his teammates. Especially with a teammate or two already not doing great.

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2 hours and 20 minutes to deadline

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You know you didn't hammer yourself right?

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Like it still might be a no-lynch, Iconeum is almost certainly not going to check the thread and I don't think it's a guarantee flipz drops in.

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Could you explain how selfhammering as town helps the town? I don't follow. I think Creature is more using it to escape a terribly moderated/participated game. Which is admittedly tempting. I asked to replace in to a slot that got filled, then when I looked closer at the game and realized it ended up having a 12 day night which is kind of a cluster..
I wasn't itching to replace anymore but McQueen queued me to replace.
I definitely regret inning now.

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I replaced into this game because I thought it needed some kind of tending, but didn't expect to enjoy it that much. So if the point was to be helpful, it defeats my only point in it to leave in a way contrary to my wincon.

But if you can explain how it fits my wincon, I'm out of here.

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It's not mod's fault, it's just that the level of inactivity and apathy this game is just too damn high for any of the sides to ever deserve a win or even have a fun game.

I laughed out loud

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I've definitely been enjoying my other games more than this one.

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VOTE: Game Abandon

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I was scum. Or am scum. Whatever. I had a nonzero angle of hoping neither emp or Iconeum log into the thread and then playing out another game with Yet Another Replacement that would have to come in for Iconeum but that's pretty cancer. If you thought my play was poor and it's cowardly to vote to abandon the game here and I'm trying to treat it as a tie instead of a loss you can feel that way that's ok

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I did replace in hoping to do more good than harm but idk whether I did. Creature's point about how unlikely it is that Clemency submitted a NK as he siteflaked is kind of gamekilling and yucky, it's not "right" for me to not have that mislynch angle for that reason. I'm not mad at Creature for it, the fault lies much more with the mod for not tracking his player participation carefully enough. It needs to be plausible that every slot did something.

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Yeah I don't fault you for needing to point that out, I don't think you have a responsibility as a player to pretend you are not aware of that and then just like mysteriously not vote Clemency's slot after the slot's previous play it's more sincere to point out that it happened.

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Well maybe the mod had a responsibility to poll around about game abandonment or consider it as a possibility because I would have voted yes. Idk. I don't mod.

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No, Godmid, I think he means that if it was identified that Clemency needed to be replaced the night previous to this one would have been excessively long again.

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One of the saving graces making me interested in actually replacing into this game even though I don't like this type of setup at all and I knew the activity was going to be bad was that I read D1 and couldn't decide whether I thought RC was town or scum. I was really disappointed to replace into a different slot than I initially wanted and not get to go on the journey of discovery

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But I guess I got the other slot and then RC replaced out I would have missed out anyway in terms of reading new stuff from him.

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*if I got ebwop

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godmid I can't believe you read the whole thread even as town that's saintly.
After d1 it's not such a fun read anymore

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I read it all and yet hardly actually remember it.

Something about lynch Dr. Worm to take what little joy this game might have

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People say Creature is very easy to townread when he is town.
This game was maybe anomalous in that some people weren't townreading him because they weren't reading the game at all.

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If it adds value for you, Godmid, Dr Worm posted that at the same time as he got the "NOT A REAL DOCTOR" temporary title by request. There were special temporary titles last month.

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I liked the post too

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I don't really get Wizzerd lynch, that didn't make sense to me at all.

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After Shoshin died meaning Day 5? Godmid having a high volume replace-in probably makes it harder. Obviously I wasn't trying to read you. I don't know to what extent Emperor and Iconeum should have been able to read you.

I guess, when I'm town in a game and see a couple people I see as obvtown I'll think some of my teammates should be able to see what I'm seeing but I wouldn't ever be able to look at it that way here.

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If you walked away from Wizzerd vs. RC and said you thought it was TvT I wouldn't blame you but I thought Wizzerd looked really obvtown by the end so I don't get why he was lynched.
As an alternative to high EV setup-breaking strats, no less, this setup seems townsided to me.

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Was really hoping Creature or Iconeum was the doc so I wouldn't have to pretend to scumread Creature

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Titus I didn't like bussing u

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I explicitly blacklist no player from this game.

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I read RC's iso and can't find a single post he made about Shoshin that I wouldn't post if I played mafia with my parents.

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You're probably right here

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This setup is ridiculously townsided