Open 756: Hope Plus One (Day 5)

[Buki]

Hi Radiant

I actually tried to replace Miss Kobayashi first, but it failed

I was about to replace Dr.Worm, but he came back

and surprisingly Skellen seems to have mass replaced so here I am

I had already read the game and organized my thoughts but I may need a bit of time to post it.

(Also I might or not have bitten more games than I can perfectly chew so don't expect my spam old meta)

[Buki]

(Also I might or not have bitten more games than I can perfectly chew so don't expect my spam old meta)

don't replace into too many games?

perfectly chew isn't the same as being able to play.

I'm just saying that I may not always be posting as frequently as I used, but I'll play the game and be active

[Buki]

VOTE: the wizard

[Buki]

There's the VI.

Hm

https://forum.mafiascum.net/posting.php ... ]=10876584
what were you trying to do here?

[Buki]

Fixing post:

VOTE: the wizard

Hm

what you were trying to do here?

VOTE: Shoshin

Put him at L-1 to see what he does.

[Buki]

Fixing post:

VOTE: the wizard

Hm

what you were trying to do here?

VOTE: Shoshin

Put him at L-1 to see what he does.

What do scum do at L-1?

As long as they have minimum experience, they don't do much of different than town in L-1 do. They might even not care much that they are in L-1, especially if they don't enjoy rolling scum like Shoshin.

[Buki]

Hmm

and instead of explaining what you were doing that we couldn't understand, you want to leave it at that?

[Buki]

@RC why wizard over some other slots?

not that he doesn't sound bad

[Buki]

There's the VI.

Or Cowbells's scumbuddy maybe.

Are you of the opinion that scum team probably band together to defend each other or something?

[Buki]

Hm

I've some time to put in this game now

Let me re:read everything to be sure of who I want to push here

[Buki]

Ok, I've only put 70% attention in my re:read since I'm a bit tired but I think I've got some reads.

I'll only be saying the scum reads after some people post a bit more but as far as town I think that:

CoA is nulltown

Baezu is townlean

Cellica is nulltown
----------
I'm being a bit lazy on Celica to be honest, I didn't read all her posts that carefully but her point against Wizard was good. But I have some conspiracy theories about this slot so...take it with a grain of salt.

[Buki]

@Buki you took over for skellen right?

Yeah

What are your opinions in the slots?

[Buki]

Perfect
@Buki what do you think of pretentious?

nothing important to be honest

He doesn't smell bad, but doesn't smell good I guess

[Buki]

@Buki you took over for skellen right?

Yeah

What are your opinions in the slots?

I haven’t really had any sr,

you had a scum read in pretentious?

[Buki]

@Buki you took over for skellen right?

Yeah

What are your opinions in the slots?

I haven’t really had any sr,

you had a scum read in pretentious?

He was null but I wanted to push him cos I didn’t believe the claim

but what do you think was his objective by making that claim?

and until where have you read the game?

[Buki]

Also everyone should post a bit more so that we can end the day already

It'll be really hard for me to change my opinion about who is the lynch today...

[Buki]

WHAT is the VOTER COUNT?? Is it SAFE to VOTE WIZZEERD??

bad posting

but yes

[Buki]

@Egix

what is your opinion on Wizard, and don't mention RC in your read on Wizard.

[Buki]

@Egix

what is your opinion on Wizard, and don't mention RC in your read on Wizard.

Based on a quick read of his ISO... hmm, tbh I really don't know, he could go either way.

What do you think of his smug overconfidence in his reads?

does it feel fake?

If yes to the above, why you can see him as either way and not only in a more negative light? What is there of towny on his ISO?

[Buki]

CoA always feels so absent in my games. Is she scum, RC?

Hm...

[Buki]

If somehow RC is town, then 1. he's bad and 2. my scumread reverts to Eyes. But that's unlikely.

VOTE: TheWizard

Lining up lynches is a scum tell. Also this is strike two. I gave you leeway the first time because I thought you were townie earlier, but this one I can't just chalk up and let go.

so you're letting RC go even though you were sure that he had scum slipped?

you're pretty weird regardless of alignment...

[Buki]

Ok, this is not necessarily what I had in mind before but who knows how I'll go after here

VOTE: Radiant

I think you've towny things in your ISO but I've one problem with your play here so far. If I sheep you anywhere outside of Wizard/Eyes, who we are lynching?

[Buki]

fuck off

I had

like

one question

to probably give you town credit afterwards and spare you of trouble that might appear in day 1

and you get all emotional and says this

whatever, don't blame me if I end up not defending you afterwards

[Buki]

trouble that might appear in day 1

trouble that might appear in day 2*

correcting

Anyway, very probably and hopefully things will be simpler and...

this flips red?

VOTE: Shoshin

[Buki]

Comparing Shoshin posts

In a recent town game:

Irrelephant's excited for this game. What do you think that means about his alignment, Auro?

^ already begins questioning in the start, interacting with other slots trying to sort them

In our game:

I feel very uncomfortable with how close I am to L-1.

I'm town, RC.

^ talks about their own condition and doesn't seem to be trying to sort the person whom she is talking to
-----------------------------

In recent town game:

I strongly disagree that I'm more likely scum than null. Please explain.

Reason why they’re here is because elephant gave townreads way early on, several times if I’m not mistaken, overall town behavior.

This isn't townie for Irrel.

Notice that she comments about other players posts, and try to make people explain their read on them in order to get a better view of their mind

In our game:

It's odd that you can't tell I'm town, RC. What's up with that?

I don't know what to say. It feels bad to be at L-2 while having no clue who the scum are & I'd appreciate your help figuring out who I should be pushing?

"Hey, you should be town reading me but I don't really think it's scummy for you to not do it"
"help me find scum, I've no clue of who they might be"

These are certainly two things I don't expect to hear from Shoshin if she is town. Ever since her first newbie game (which I read), I think one of the most notable things about her playstyle is that it's very aggressive, what I don't see here.

Shoshin, if you want to get us some examples where you might have played similarly like you're playing here you're free to do though. I'm all ears.

But with what I've now, I really doubt you're town here. Maybe, and just maybe, you got a PR and thought that you had to be more scummy. But it wouldn't be my fault in that case, and I doubt I'll believe any PR claims.

[Buki]

blame in what sense?

would you threaten to not defend someone besides me if they didn't jump through hoops for you when you shit voted them?

The unique problem I had with your play here was how you seemed to not find shocking how Shoshin has been playing here. There's a possibility that I don't know as much about Shoshin as I should (and that's why I'm all ears for hers counter-arguments), but from what I've seen, Shoshin has been very weird here.

CoA seemed to notice that as well.

However although you did talk about it in the begin, you got distracted in the Wizard/Eye thing and never really seemed to push Shoshin again, and I found it worrying.

I don't think you're scum with her, but in the 5% chance that she flips town, I'll look at you ignoring Shoshin in day 1 and think negatively about it. Almost as if you already would have known she was town so you didn't find it

that

weird.

When I questioned you about who we should lynch outside of Wizard/Eye, if you said Shoshin and tried to do some effort in shading her, I would have put you in the townblock regardless of today flip, but with how things played out, I can only hope that I'm right on Shoshin/my actual solve.

[Buki]

the implication is that I wouldn't jump at the opportunity to get rid of town shoshin D1 and have good reasons for it.

Do you think she can ever be town here with the way she has been playing?

We have 4 days left and she did kind of nothing.

I can maybe see her rolling a PR and thinking that just sheeping/shadowing you would be better play, but really, this is kind of too much. I want to lynch her regardless of her claim.

I can hear her if she links game where she played like she is playing here though.

[Buki]

She said for you to let her have a chance of finding scum but she didn't post a single alignment-sorting question to the other players, all the while saying "RC, who should I vote, help?".

This is like...really too much.

[Buki]

i don't feel like lynching her.

I see

Can't do anything about that but I hope the others don't think like this. because I do feel like lynching her I guess.

[Buki]

If Shoshin is scum

I think there's between one to two scum in [Wizard, Egix, Eyes]

If Shoshin isn't scum I might need to rework my solve.

[Buki]

Because Shoshin feels more like scum

even though wizard feels like scum

[Buki]

What do you think about Shoshin Dr.Worm?

And why you might prefer Wizard than Shoshin?

[Buki]

Not necessarily.

First I want to know what you think about Shoshin yourself.

[Buki]

ok but shoshin is cuter

I might or might not wish that Egix and Celica be town just because of their avatar

[Buki]

What do you think about Shoshin Dr.Worm?

And why you might prefer Wizard than Shoshin?

I HAVE ONLY tiny thoughts on SHOSHY!! ANTI-TROWN but not SURE SCUM!!

What do you feel like it's anti-town about shoshin?

and what makes you confident that wizard is scum?

[Buki]

CELIAC DID THIS:: SHOW UP.. BIG POSTS.. NO REALTIME TALKS!!

Why TROWN READ??

Hmmm

her reads. Or more precisely, her reasons. They're original and good enough for day 1.

[Buki]

and what makes you confident that wizard is scum?

DR WORM not CONFRIDENT.. just BEST RIGHT NOW!!

Well

In that case I would be glad if you got in the Shoshin wagon, because I think that hits scum. Never saw Shoshin playing like that, it's almost as if it's a anti-shoshin persona using her account.

Anyway, if you come to the wagon though you better not try to say that you were forced/manipulated or something later regardless of flip. You would be coming because you believe that shoshin is scummy and trusted my confidence on it.

[Buki]

do you want to see what happens if you try to derail thewizard

Hmm...

is that a threat? and if yes, what kind of threat?

[Buki]

it's a threat.

Yeah but that is the answer I kind of already knew

now what I really want to know is what kind of threat is that?

[Buki]

Hm, I see

I thought you maybe would say "I'll replace out", and not that I would change of opinion, but I wanted to avoid a situation like that.

But if it's all about getting angry at me it's fine.

I want Shoshin lynch first, because I can't find a single good excuse for her behavior, while I can find one or two for Wizard.

They are both bad but Shoshin is worse. Without anything new in the table I'm not changing my opinion.

[Buki]

OK SHOULD DR WORM SHEEP YOU??

I don't think you can sheep someone while having apathy to their read.

When someone sheeps someone, they think that the person they're voting in are scum, and the one who is leading the wagon is trustworthy.

Then if you sheeped me and voted Shoshin, of course it would mean you think she is scum.

Why do you have a problem with that? You said you weren't confident in Wizard either, is there that much difference in them?

[Buki]

^THAT"S WHAT PEOPLE POST to LOOK MYSTERIOUSLY!!

Hmm...

It's just a habit of mine but I see

so that's how you guys see it huh

I'll try to stop...

or maybe not really.

[Buki]

Why do you have a problem with that? You said you weren't confident in Wizard either, is there that much differ

MEBBE LATER!!

Ok I think your posting style is cool but we're approaching the incomprehensible level

come back?

[Buki]

Then Dr.Worm could sheep me, find Shoshin anti-town but doesn't really want to join the wagon out of their own will for now

probably something AI, for best or worse, in later days

[Buki]

I need to catch up on this game...please gimme a bit

DO YOU BELEIVE WIZZERD"S CLAIM??

that answer is already in their ISO

[Buki]

How'd you choose which of my games you read, Buki?

I picked one of the most recent completed ones I think

If not the most recent, it's the second most recent

[Buki]

So why instead of making me search for between dozens of games where you play normally, just to find one where you play like this, you actually give me around 3 games where you've done it?

and also, if you play like that, what is your objective?

also, the day is almost ending and you still didn't seem up to do anything. How much "time" you would need?

[Buki]

I don't think there is plenty of time.

You hardly can change wagons with 2 days left

When the game hits around 2 days, it's kind of already settled. And Shoshin has been nothing but waiting for the votes come and go, not even saying if she liked or not the wagons.

[Buki]

Why would you be so against lynching Shoshin today and Wizard possibly tomorrow RC?

If Shoshin does flip scum, Wizard is my first target

[Buki]

Does that mean that if we lynch Wizard today you'll visit Shoshin in day 2?

What is your point in Shoshin anyway?

You're saying you don't want to lose her in day 1, but does that mean you scum read her or not?

[Buki]

Hm, I see

I find Shoshin lynch gives us more info though

if I'm wrong on Shoshin I think I would need to rework my solve a bit drastically

Well, I'll try to lynch Shoshin, you try to lynch Wizard and we're all good for now I guess

[Buki]

i'm speedlynching you tomorrow if i'm alive so.

Hmm

I honestly don't think you can speedlynch me here without simply making people so annoyed that they want this to be done with (and I think the easier solution if you do that would be to lynch you anyway)

second why would you do that? Do you think I'm scum or it's just you annoyed?

[Buki]

Hmm

Actually you're being different than usual with me in hindsight I think. What's up with you, have you always hated my guts like that or...?

[Buki]

Me voting Wizard was just I vote sparking, and if you did read my meta like you said you did in Pickety Pickety you should know that I only do it as town, but let's not talk about meta here

My problem with Wizard is that I'm not sure that he is scum as much I'm sure that Shoshin is. And if Shoshin is scum, I feel Wizard with his "Let's put Shoshin to L-1 to see what she does" was bussing. But if Shoshin flips town I'm not sure I want to necessarily look at Wizard first after the flip and possibly nightkill. There may have other solves.

My solve right now is that it's Shoshin/Wizard/Egix or something similar, and they kind of make sense together in my pov. If Shoshin leaves I need to look on it again, see if the solve makes sense.

I asked about others wizard reads because I think it's important since he has a high probability of being scum, but that doesn't mean that I already have a set stone on day 2. I might end up wanting to lynch Wizard, I might end up wanting to lynch someone else.

And what the fuck do you even mean by "a lurker wagon".

This. Is. Not. Ever. A. Fucking. Lurker. Wagon.

Go back to my post comparing Shoshin's posts. It's completely different and I explain very well why.

Don't try to distort things just to make people look bad RC, that's annoying as hell and I've said this multiple times in multiple games. But I suspect you might have felt lowkey challenged when I said you couldn't lynch me.

[Buki]

Yeah

I think you're feeling challenged that I said you can't lynch me

Hm, this will be a headache.

And what do you mean by "You're not dumb to not get on a wagon we both agree on"? I agree that he is bad and I don't want him on LyLo. I don't agree he is the most scummy slot.

and I always go for the scummiest slot. Even more when I feel like I said before, that Shoshin lynch has higher info rate.

[Buki]

i have played a shit ton more games with shoshin than you have.

You had played more games with Varsoon and Mutant, and in the first reads in PicketyPickety I was right on them and you weren't.

I don't mean it to say I'm better or anything. I just want to say that you should not look in my read from this angle. I've put my objective reasons on the table, go argue against them if you disagree with her meta.

wizard is going to get lynched anyway and 2) i'm going to lynch you tomorrow.

if that's the direction you choose to go down then you're welcome to it.

If I actually strongarmed people, I think I could get Shoshin lynched. But since I'm not really going to do that, maybe Wizard will get lynched first, and if he flips scum, it'll look bad on me.

It's not about "you" deciding if I'll be lynched or not, it would be pretty much Wizard flip.

[Buki]

VOTE: Buki

Let's go this path.

why you think I'm scum

and say it with your own words without quoting the RC post.

[Buki]

It's not about me doing my best RC. If I had strongarmed for example Dr.Worm minutes ago to join Shoshin wagon.

He would be less readable in the next days. And it would be a huge disadvantage if I'm ever wrong.

I don't want to sacrifice the game because of my ego.

[Buki]

Radiant

From your pov you're saying I'm scum with Wiz and that Shoshin is not my scumbuddy right?

Then it would be Wiz/Buki while Shoshin is town.

Ok.

Why would I ever protect Wiz ass here? The unique game where I protected a scum buddy, it was to the next day, try to throw him to the wolves and ride to LyLo.

And you don't decide shit on what the cop does RC. Stop trying to boss people around.

[Buki]

At this point I'm here Radiant:

1. You're either scum or

2. You're town and is getting your ego involved with the game and making a mess like you did in Pickety Pickety and lots and lots of game before. We're after you fuck things up you say "humph, it was your guys fault for not doing like I said"

Look, my reason for wanting Shoshin rather than Wizard is:

I don't know Wizard meta. It's his first game. I've no fucking idea of what he looks like scum, and what he looks like town. His scum points with me comes from his smug, fake-ass confidence in his reads, but you know, you just do the same thing sometimes even when you're town RC. There's other players that do that as well.

It's because it's not impossible to do it while being town.


All the while, Shoshin has been playing differently than ANY TOWN GAME I'VE EVER SEEN OF HER, and SHE DOESN'T LINK ME DIFFERENT GAMES that she is saying that "exist". Your reason to not lynch Shoshin?

"I want to play with her"

and I'm saying "Oh well, ok, whatever".

However you're trying to basically say "Since you are not doing it my way, I'm going to be like 12 year old, scream in the thread and if you're town you're bad".

Do you see why the problem here RC?

[Buki]

If I hadn't seen you do it so many times, all the while being town, and getting mad at other town. I would have done the same mistake as them and just called you scum and made the game shit.

I'm not going to do it though, although I don't really trust people to not be dumb enough to listen to you.

Look RC, my reason for wanting Shoshin first is pretty clear:

Shoshin has never, ever, played like this in a town game. And if I'm wrong, link some games.

It's probably because I'm not wrong, isn't it?

You instead wants to lynch Wizard because he sounds to fake confidence in their reads, what doesn't happen only with scum. There's players that do that as town sometimes (you being the example).

Don't try to distort things, I'm being the reasonable one while you're not lynching Shoshin due to liking her.

[Buki]

Buki, you've been told that your meta read on me is wrong. Is there any reason you're still pushing it even though RC's meta read is based on substantially more evidence than yours?

What

the

hell

you're talking about?

I never said my meta is wrong. I said that it maybe is because you could have games like this that I had never seen before. However, you didn't link me a single one, and I need at least three.

"RC meta read has substantially more evidence than yours?"

First, just because he has played more with you doesn't mean he can

always

read you better.

Second, he is actually scum reading you and just don't want to lynch today because he thinks you're cute.

[Buki]

Shoshin has never, ever, played like this in a town game. And if I'm wrong, link some games.

How many of my games have you read?

Lots, really.

I usually always am reading ongoing games, even when I wasn't playing games in the site.

You can even find me in some dead threads.

Every game I've read of yours, you were more aggressive and power town. And instead of linking me the damn games where you "play differently", you're playing semantics.

[Buki]

that was a sarcastic reference to a previous game where I was accused of doing that, not an actual serious statement.

Hm

[Buki]

also the paragraph structure of

my reason for x is the following:

x

is extremely scum indicative and not something that you usually do as town

I see

[Buki]

Then this is the TL;DR:

1. Shoshin has apparently never played like this as town
2. RC and Shoshin disagree but can't link a single game as counter-argument (and you would at least have 3, or 2 if being merciful)
3. One of the reasons RC doesn't want to lynch Shoshin is because he wants to play with her
4. He wants to lynch me for thinking that lynching Shoshin today is more sure to hit scum (what it is), just because he doesn't wanna Shoshin today and wants me to compromisse on Wizard

Hmm, what a game

[Buki]

"Hm"
"I see"

statements of having a thought process as opposed to having a thought process and posting the results

Actually my dog wrote those posts so you can't scum read me for that

I know, they would be good points but you can't, yeah

[Buki]

Like, if I lowkey am almost going full caps beucase I'm getting annoyed but I don't want to make the thread that shitty

[Buki]

Only one town game is necessary to counter the false meta. And they're easily found by looking through my games.

Not really, it can have special circumstances.

But anyway:

WHY

YOU DON'T LINK THAT YOURSELF IF THAT'S THE CASE?

Let's say you're hipothetically town.

You want me to go search again by myself to gain town points or something? Look, it's already night around here, and these past days since I came back I've read shit tons of pages of mafia and searched shit ton of games looking in people meta.

I'm tired.

Assuming you're town, can't you simply link it here? I guarantee you that I can spew myself town in another way later, I'm not really a hard read.

[Buki]

A bit of an overreaction.

Read the first Red Flag game.

I was town.

I caps locked whole pages of that game.

I've gotten better though yeah

[Buki]

I mean I know that you're not flavor leaf and you're going to be somewhat of a pushover but you can at least give me

something

.

Yeah, see?

You're thinking this as some sort of challenge

When I just don't want to repeat the shit I did in past games when I ended up annoyed

That's why that kind of shit happens with you RC, and you never learn, and end up blaming it on the other person.

[Buki]

Aww you're tired poor you. So you're not going to actually give me a fight?

I'm not fighting you.

I want to lynch Shoshin, and I've given my reasons.

The unique reason I'm making you company is because I've seen again and again you do this kind of shit, and the moment that the other person stop answering you, because you make whole pages of spam, people just sheep you, and the game turns a mess, and afterwards you end up winny.

Like, if I have time tomorrow, I'll even put V/LA in my other games just to link every time you've done this same mess, regardless of alignment.

[Buki]

Shoshin still didn't link me a single game, even when I'm the one begging her.

If you're ever town here Shoshin, just link me already the damn games and sort me by my reads and etc. I'm not particularly hard to read, as scum I get demotivated easily in later days also.

But I think that yeah, Shoshin is just scum and can't link me the games because they don't exist.

[Buki]

you have an open invitation to all the caps locks you need. you think that you can prevent me lynching thewizard, then try it. you can't say dumb shit like that then not back it up.

After Newbie 1870 I kind of promised myself to not do that shitshow again.

Whatever RC, I think I've already talked enough with you, and you don't adress my point that Shoshin meta points heavily to her being scum and that you don't want to lynch her just because you don't "wanna".

If the playerlist actually falls for that kind of thing and end up lynching me it's not really going to be my fault.

[Buki]

Yeah, yeah Shoshin.

I'm scum.

At least now you finally have your first read and need to stop repeating "RC, help me" and "I'm town"

That might be progress to be honest

[Buki]

Ok, this is one my last posts to this just because I know how effective RC is in pedalling bullshit and convincing everyone, It happens.

Very frequently.

this guy would rather get into this huge fight with me then vote someone he has claimed to scumread who he was distancing from since he repped in. how does that make them ever not svs

1. Dr Worm for example actually think that both Shoshin and Wizard are bad. But would rather vote Wizard. It's because it's his top read. Shoshin is my top read. It's

normal

.

2. "Distancing"? Yeah no, I hate distancing and the first thing I say in the scum pt in my mafia games is "act natural/ no forced buss"

massive misrep again. i'm not trying to lynch you.

I'm trying to lynch THEWIZARD.

WHO YOU HAVE AGREED IS SCUM.

And I have also said that Shoshin is a better lynch today than him.

but when a wagon actually showed up there, fuck no I need to randomly wagon shoshin for not playing the game

I'm lynching Shoshin because her town meta is to be more aggressive. Prove me wrong.

[Buki]

I had an early townread on Baezu, don't forget that Buki.

yeah right

guess I was wrong

you had some reads in the end huh

even though it's 13p game and you are known to fastly get a read on playerlists.

But yeah, that one read in Baezu in the begin makes a difference...

[Buki]

whichever of you is town i'm so fucking pissed at right now you have no idea

fuck off RC

don't try to play it off

You're the one doing all of this regardless of your alignment. You're purposely playing dumb just to feed your ego.

I'm the one pissed with you for being such a winny person. I can forgive this if you're scum later but if you're not, every time someone say that you're toxic, I'll stop saying anything back and just nod.

[Buki]

If you plainly said

"Buki, I think you're scum with Wiz from the position you're taking here" I could understand, but it's clear by your posts that you're fucking up around just to try to win a "challenge".

You also purposely ignore my points about Shoshin, that you even recognized before this began.

[Buki]

Shoshin is still probably scum anyway.

If I have time, I'll try to check more games from her but my point still seems to stand and no link is showing up in the thread.

This doesn't sound like town!Shoshin ever. It seems you don't have one single example and instead of linking us, you want to make I check every game you played in this site...

[Buki]

and 5 more votes for Shoshin.

What I hope will happen when people come back

[Buki]

The fact that both of you agree wizard is scum and neither of you are willing to vote them makes me kinda sick to my stomach

whichever of you is town i'm so fucking pissed at right now you have no idea

Yeah, RC might be town

[Buki]

If Wizard flips town, then I'll lynch you, RC. Will you accept this if I vote Wizard?

This kind of makes me think that maybe Wiz/Shoshin isn't a team

and that kinda justify why I wanted Shoshin first

I wonder how much weight I should put on this huh

[Buki]

Like Wiz

You either need to explain who you are

or we might have kind of a problem here

You're implying you're an alt, knows RC here but doesn't know how Macho works?

[Buki]

Wiz, not RC today.

Vote Shoshin, you think she is scum anyway right?

Let the wagons compete

[Buki]

Hm

so like, this is unhappily kind of what's happening Wiz:

I'm annoyed, and if it's to die, I want it to be quick

Vote Shoshin or I probably am going to vote you, and if you flip scum I'll leave for players judgement. If you flipped town...huh, Shoshin is next.

Anyway, that's my proposal.

[Buki]

I've tried quite a bit to not get in this kind of conflict in mafia but it always happen

I might need to be even more minimalist than I'm already being maybe

Anyway Wiz, let's get this over with

[Buki]

I'm kinda wishing for a flip in the next 24 hours or so.

Is Wiz 2 votes away?

[Buki]

Why are you overexplaining yourself about the claim RC?

He claimed, and that's not really your fault regardless of anything.

[Buki]

"I didn't prompt him to claim" "Didn't want you to claim today"

I just felt you were kind of apologetic, but it's not really bad

Hm, Wizard seems to have left

[Buki]

I'm not going to stop until he's dead so if you're sick of reading explanations of why he's scum you should vote him.

If he doesn't show up to vote Shoshin I'll will

if he gets to L-1 I'm hammering as well

his doctor claim is pretty bad yeah, he might really be scum (and I thought he was scum, even thought I think Shoshin is a better lynch), but right now I'm just kind of pissed off

but I'll eventually will

[Buki]

Wiz

vote Shoshin

or I vote you

I just want this day over already

[Buki]

To be honest I wouldn't have thought he really was a doctor because of that claim

the "fuck" and the part of not understanding Macho seems pretty fake

[Buki]

If it gets close to end-of-day and lynching Shoshin is the only way to avoid my own lynch or a nolynch, I'll do it. But I'm not going to jump on the Shoshin wagon now, since it's unlikely to lead to town victory.

I'm not locking town Radiant

I've lots of conspirancy against every slot, in every game. I almost never take something as 100%. Radiant can be scum with you and have done all this theatre. Radiant can be town, you town and we are going to waste time instead of lynching Shoshin. Maybe Radiant is scum with someone else and tomorrow he is going to look bad. Maybe Radiant is town and you're scum.

I just find that right now, the hyphothesis of RC being town is the one I want to go with/feel like. maybe I'll rethink, maybe I"ll not.

and.

I would kind of need you to vote Shoshin right now, because I'll end up voting you if it takes too long.

[Buki]

To be honest I wouldn't have thought he really was a doctor because of that claim

the "fuck" and the part of not understanding Macho seems pretty fake

tbh I have no idea how I would have reacted to the claim were I scum but I found it pretty fake yeah.

It was really like

"I'm trying to bait the NK so I'm kind of a smart town guys"

Shoshin still scummier though

if Shoshin is ever town here I'll never try to read her alone again. I'm genuinely asking RC. One single game where Shoshin isn't:

1. Talk-active, or even if not very active, still questioning
2. Aggressive reads, quick reads.
3. A bit stubborn

[Buki]

I refuse to accept Shoshin is anything but scum. It's probably the most confident read I've had in a town game.

[Buki]

she's been such for periods before. never for an entire game before. don't understand why you wouldn't be screaming at him to unvote in scum PT

Unvote what? You?

tbh if I was scum I wouldn't even be pissed in the first place

[Buki]

she's been such for periods before. never for an entire game before.

Don't even need to link it.

Just give me the name or the game flavour.

[Buki]

This is like

the same shitshow of always

[Buki]

Now I remember why I always stop playing mafia I guess

[Buki]

I think he is scummy Radiant.

In any, any other game, I would have voted with you.

But I'm like, really confident that Shoshin is scum.

Her first vote on you even:

"I wouldn't have voted on you if I was scum Radiant, you know that right?"

It's like, deep shit tons of fakeness

[Buki]

Whatever though,

Wiz, if in the next 5 minutes you don't vote Shoshin I'm voting you

[Buki]

Well I tried Wiz, if you're town you can't blame me

I even said I'm not locktown in RC, no one is I think

VOTE: Wizard

[Buki]

note that he's not even, like, trying to get the cop to check me. only to lynch me. not considering how his apparent doc flip affects the game from then on. just trying to survive today.

if this were really a town doctor he'd be fucking screaming for the cop to be on me. but he hasn't even mentioned the idea when he's at l-2.

I don't really think that line of reasoning is

that solid

but I know that at this point you just keep spamming to make it seem like there is no way that it's

obvious

.

Hm, to be honest if this is town I'll laugh off a lot

[Buki]

Nah Wizard

this is already a shitshow, this is the program:

You get lynched day 1 >

Town > We lynch Shoshin, and afterwards maybe RC for the giggles

Scum > Lynch me, only god knows what next

[Buki]

I don't really think that line of reasoning is that solid but I know that at this point you just keep spamming to make it seem like there is no way that it's obvious.

Hm, to be honest if this is town I'll laugh off a lot

i think it's extremely solid that he has suggested everything besides copping me b/c that doesn't actually help him.

kind of but not really

but yeah

[Buki]

I'm not because I think you've decent chance of being scum.

[Buki]

If I'm scum, what happens next?

I'll not even bother defending myself too much if people buy RC's theory

This town has shown no signs of intelligence. It's entirely possible they could be talked into ignoring and/or lynching a Cop.

Hm

bad posting

[Buki]

This town has shown no signs of intelligence. It's entirely possible they could be talked into ignoring and/or lynching a Cop.

Actually if this is ever town after this I'll be asking you about your home site

does that kind of thing happen there?

[Buki]

If I'm scum, what happens next?

I'll not even bother defending myself too much if people buy RC's theory

This town has shown no signs of intelligence. It's entirely possible they could be talked into ignoring and/or lynching a Cop.

Hm

bad posting

So you, a townie, would rather lynch me, knowing that it will either be a mislynch or result in one, rather than lynch someone you said you were sure was scum?

I don't have mental strenght, or the time, or the will, to fight off if you flip scum and people buy RC's theory. I'm pretty sure our interactions don't look even one bit SvS, and that my scum meta is plenty to prove that I would have lynched even before RC got on you if you were my partner

However, if players buy it, what can I do? It doesn't feel worth to waste too much time or energy in that kind of shitshow.

And maybe you'll...in 5% of chances...flip town. It would be funny.

[Buki]

Even if I'm scum, Buki has no possible advantage in lynching me before Shoshin.

I don't but I don't want to argue with RC anymore, he is more annoying than I thought

it's like, the discussion never moves on because he always repeat the same thing as if it was a new argument

It's like...talking about economy with leftists

it doesn't work, and no one gets happy

[Buki]

Please stop being a VI.

No and in my next game I just have the perfect tactic to not be involved in these shitshows:

I'll make one line posts and not really care if people are listening to my reads or not.

[Buki]

Buki desperately wanted to lynch Shoshin a few minutes ago. He has no rational reason (annoyance is not a rational reason) not to do so now.

That's pretty much not truth. Look:

I gave you lots of chance to vote Shoshin, and alerted you my patience was running out. You waited until it ran out.

Now I just want to get it over with as fast as possible, for either leave this game and join another one, or to see you flip town, laugh a lot, and vote RC tomorrow for the giggles.

The other option, that is insisting on Shoshin going first today, would actually stress myself IRL, and since I already have things to take care of around here, I think a mafia game is not worth enduring it.

That's why I'm voting you man, I said I was going to do it before but you didn't listen to me.

[Buki]

I don't know if I get sad because he might flip scum, or if I get happy because I did scum read him right.

But that Shoshin post kind of makes me hesitate to call a Wiz/Shoshin team

[Buki]

Being mad at me is not a valid reason for taking actions harmful to the town.

All you need to do is switch your vote. I'll handle the pushing. You can sit back and post one-liners.

Look, I'm not mad at you. Really. It's just I'm tired of this game.

Also I'm even smiling reading some of your posts. What a homesite indeed.

[Buki]

Tbh if you flip scum Wizard, I might 1v1 RC tomorrow just for the giggles

[Buki]

Actually. You should flip scum Wizard.

I want to 1v1 RC for the homies tomorrow.

[Buki]

Wizard is a banned user by the way, I'm 95% sure I know who they are.

If he really is a banned user I think they are going to find who he is sooner or later anyway (and ban again).

Why was he banned in the first time if he is who you think he is?

[Buki]

I'm not gamethrowing Wizard. I'm serious, I'll try to put at least a minimum effort in fighting off my lynch if you flip scum.

And if you don't, I'm just going for Shoshin tomorrow.

[Buki]

Hm
VOTE: Shoshin

[Buki]

Fooled you.

VOTE: Wizard

[Buki]

VOTE: unvoted

Like, I actually am less annoyed right now so I thought "maybe I should go for Shoshin and just keep from where I left" but...

I don't know if Shoshin is that much scummier than you anymore Wiz. You two are kind of getting more and more equal in terms of scuminess.

[Buki]

I think Shoshin is scummier

but I feel like you're scummy enough that I shouldn't really mind if you're first or second...so...

VOTE: Wizard

[Buki]

RC what is your read in Shoshin?

[Buki]

if you're town she could easily be scum.

Hm

stop the lol read in that case

why I'm scum?

[Buki]

CoA takes care of it if Shoshin is scum I think

[Buki]

Also if we stop the joke RC should know I'm town, just as CoA

[Buki]

please don't cop buki btw. we're just lynching him and you'll have to claim to defend him if he flips town. use the cop on someone relevant.

Noted.

Yeah

no

I didn't want to be rude before but I don't care anymore

I slept, and now that I woke up I did re:read all of this and...

I'm feeling pretty stupid. It's a fucking shit case and it's because of people that buy it like you that I get pissed off.

I wanted to lynch confirmed scum. Because Shoshin is confirmed scum if she can't show me a single game where she does absolutely nothing. Radiant wants to lynch someone that isn't confirmed scum because he wants to play with Shoshin.

It's like

fucking simple like that

[Buki]

@Egix

what is your opinion on Wizard, and don't mention RC in your read on Wizard.

Based on a quick read of his ISO... hmm, tbh I really don't know, he could go either way.

What do you think of his smug overconfidence in his reads?

does it feel fake?

Ehhh I guess his tunnelling feels kinda genuine? Obviously I know he's wrong about me but the way he's tunnelling on Cowbells kinda feels like how I was in my early town games (Newbies 1893 and 1898). That's not something I could really bring up in my previous response because you said I couldn't make references to Cowbells.

Also I don't think that Egix make this post if he is a Wizard partner when Wiz is close to being flipped. He would throw at least a bit of shade here I imagine.

Then Egix/Wiz probably isn't a team

and I've some doubts of Shoshin/Wiz as a team with Shoshin saying "I'll lynch you if Wiz flips town, ok Radiant?". It seemed to me like Shoshin is posturing for a day 2, but maybe it is just to distance herself of Wiz. Dunno.

[Buki]

please don't cop buki btw. we're just lynching him and you'll have to claim to defend him if he flips town. use the cop on someone relevant.

Noted.

Also, this post doesn't make sense but Eyes seem a specialist in not making sense anyway

First you said that RC was confirmed scum because he slipped, afterwards changing to Wizard because he was "lining up lynches" (and how can it be more scummy than a scum slip anyway?), and now you're even listening to what RC (confirmed scum from your pov), has to say.

If you're town I don't really know what to say to you. It's like, you forget what you were supposed to believe. Hopefully you are simply scum and we can all go home later.

[Buki]

Then it can be Wiz/Shoshin/Eyes I guess.

I suppose I'll go for a

Shoshin > Wiz

lynching order. If Shoshin flips scum, Wiz has good enough equity, and if Shoshin flips town, we might as well go for Wiz.

VOTE: Shoshin

Back to confirmed scum, and not just "probably scum" imo.

[Buki]

@Egix The only wagons going through today are Wiz and Shoshin, we don't even have much time

if you think Wiz might be town, hop in Shoshin.

[Buki]

This is the actual VC that matters.

TheWizard (4) - Radiant, Dr.Worm, Eyes, Shoshin
Shoshin (4) - CultOfAthena, Baezu, Buki, Egix

Not Voting/Voting in a wagon not going through (4) - Creature, Dr Worm, Pretentious, Emperor flippyNips

[Buki]

I too got the urge to want to vote Shoshin, so I understand the fast votes there. I’ll stay off the wagon to not add too many votes there, because I feel Shoshin could be town and RC and Shoshin just aren’t linking up right now. Either that or Shoshin’s just scum.

Yeah it's been time enough now to come to the conclusion that Shoshin must be scum.

and Added with this:

TheWiz and Baezu both come across as townie for me

You should probably hop in Shoshin's wagon.

[Buki]

Oh, nevermind. Cop becomes Macho after the first doctor dies.

@Scum Team - I know that I probably made it seem like I am a doctor with that post, but I am not a doctor. Don’t shoot me.

Okay, so I know this actually make sense it seem like I AM actually a doctor, and that I was going for that kind of WIFOM, so I’m just gonna claim. I am a doctor.

I'm the other doctor. We should just heal each other. That way, the Cop only needs to find one mafia for mafia victory to become impossible.

lolwhaaaaaaat?

Why no one's townreading that?

Do you still think that Wiz is towny since he actually claimed doctor?

A bit of an overreaction.

Read the first Red Flag game.

I was town.

I caps locked whole pages of that game.

I've gotten better though yeah

Haven't got time to read it rn but who were you in it?

Fumuki

[Buki]

Actually, no. This is the real VC.

Shoshin (5) - CoA, Baezu, Buki, Egix, Wizard

Wizard (4) - Radiant, Eyes, Dr.Worm, Shoshin

Then Shoshin is L-2 and the wagon is larger than Wiz's.

Pretentious seems to think Shoshin is scummier than Wiz, then I suppose over Wiz vs Shoshin he will go for Shoshin (based in his own reads).

@Emperor, since you think my slot is town, read Shoshin's ISO and tell me what you think of it. If you agree with me that it's scummy, hop in and lets end this day once and for all.

@Celica do you still think that my slot is scummy?

[Buki]

I really didn't want to be an ass but I guess here I am.

[Buki]

Also RC, I take back what I said about you.

Regardless of your alignment here, you play is simply a game tactic (that it's pretty effective I need to say)

so I think I was the wrong one in trying to fight it off being reasonable. Instead I should just level the playing field by doing the same thing.

[Buki]

Welcome,

[Player Name]

, you are a

Town Macho Doctor

.

Abilities

• Each night phase, you may attempt to protect one player in the game from being nightkilled. If you target the same player as the other Macho Doctor, both of your protections will fail.

Win Condition

• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Good luck and have fun!

To be fair to Wizard, it's actually not impossible for him to not be a doctor, it really doesn't explain how macho works in the role pm.

Not saying it's likely but still.

[Buki]

It's actually not impossible that he is a doctor**

I meant

[Buki]

Here you had read until #132:

VOTE: Shoshin

Put him at L-1 to see what he does.

This didn’t put shoshin at L-1 because RC unvoted

and hadn't unvoted Shoshin.

Why are you reading posts you already supposed had read, and more importantly, why are you reacting differently Baezu?

[Buki]

You say like we're close to a hammer...

Most players here aren't up to this page at all

[Buki]

NSG, I think regardless of your alignment you would be honest about it

Does Shoshin has town games where she does absolutely nothing, but still keeps posting and hiding behind people?

Because if there is I might as well unvote her and go for Wiz today.

Shoshin/RC apparently have a problem with me voting her for this reason, but every time I ask for at least a mention of such a game, nothing.

[Buki]

The games from Shoshin where she is town, I see her getting reads pretty fast and asking people for question, and being interested in sorting.

Here I think Shoshin only had the Beazu read until I and RC began arguing, and just as she kept saying "RC, I need your help" and "RC, I'm town", she banded together with RC not really being much critical of the whole thing.

I can't see this as town!Shoshin. In my wildest imagination she is a PR, but really, only a single read until the end of the day?

That's too much.

[Buki]

I AM A VERY AGGRESSIVE WORM

NO.. you are CONFRUSING ME with KRAINE TAPAS!!

it's kain tepes' birthday today, actually!

I actually noticed this

[Buki]

If Shoshin is town and Wizard is scum we're lynching Buki regardless of your read on him jsyk

and if the two are scum?

[Buki]

Still your fault for refusing to vote Wizard

yeah no

[Buki]

baezu's iso is pretty scummy

I can sheep you on that after his most recent post

I think his initial ones are good

his last ones are terrible.

[Buki]

Ok, then the first thing is, she actually had already read posts beyond around #132, but ok, let's suppose she wants to re:read the whole game:

VOTE: Pretentious

Not really caring if his proposal makes sense, it just feels not genuine/staged. On one hand he thought about it after he got his role PM and suggests it here later, on the other hand he realizes just 1-2 minutes later after posting his fault with the Macho Cop mechanic. I don't buy that. Also I just hate WIFOM right at the beginning.

This seems scummy to me

^ She hadn't said anything about my slot until now, where my slot credibility is being questioned

I feel very uncomfortable with how close I am to L-1.

<3
UNVOTE:

She had already read this post before, and hadn't unvoted Shoshin or said anything about it

So RC is basically confirmed scum at this point.

He's far too good to try to lynch someone that he's not scumreading, and if he were scumreading Eyes he wouldn't get mad. Plus the way he got pissed off is scum indicative (he's fed up with people focusing on him and getting him lynched as scum, extra attention wouldn't be negative for him as a townie).

If somehow RC is town, then 1. he's bad and 2. my scumread reverts to Eyes. But that's unlikely.

My other scumreads are Creature and Egix. Game solved.

Wut

"it's so obvious scum lol, I'm fine with lynching"

RC wtf is going on this game? Scum is just rising to the surface so easily...

"I'm fine with lynching whoever is getting wagoned boys"

We doing Sufi?

I dunno what she means here

[Buki]

So you'll sheep NSG on some random Baezu scumread she expressed once but you'll fight me to the death to not vote Wizard?

No, I began to question Baezu even before NSG showed up

As soon as Baezu made her new posts my scum alarm turned red

But I'm not sure I would give up in Shoshin lynch today. Maybe tomorrow. Dunno.

[Buki]

If Shoshin is town Baezu is probably scum

I don't know about that if Shoshin is scum.

[Buki]

is there a reason to lynch wizard today now that via his claim his slot is somewhat self-resolving?

No but if I try to explain that Wiz is dead man walking with that claim until LyLo if he is lying, It would make my situation even worse...

[Buki]

If Shoshin is town Baezu is probably scum

I don't know about that if Shoshin is scum.

this sounds like "if it is saturday then 1+1=2" to me. i can't see the relationship although i can agree that i think the conclusion is correct

I think that Baezu unvoting Shoshin right now and siding with RC is kind of not a interaction that she would do with a scumbuddy

It's not impossible, but scum usually don't have that kind of gut I think? It would look bad after the flips.

But again, not really impossible since she can hide behind RC pushes on Wiz and me (what she is doing btw).

Then I think that she is scummy regardless of anything, but if Shoshin flips scum I might need some time to think it through.

[Buki]

It may not self resolve until a lot later in the game and I think it's dangerous to leave them alive. I also think that my reads will suffer as long as the slot is alive.

To be honest I can understand this yeah

But dunno what we should really do. But scum will probably claim PR anyway so I think it's sub-optimal to lynch him today.

Maybe tomorrow.

[Buki]

If they're town scum are going to CC doc anyway and if I haven't figured out who the cop is scum certainly haven't

Yeah but we could use the cop maybe?

If we actually direct the cop to the right targets, and make a system where:

1. Not claiming guilty that day = that slot is town
2. Claiming guilty that day = that slot is scum

and still having all possible doctors. I think it's a pretty good system which makes lynching him today sub-optimal because scum would need to get rid of the doctors as soon as possible.

[Buki]

I think a "follow-the-cop" strategy here would make wonders.

[Buki]

in the first place, are we considering that scum would choose to leave him alive for the sake of potentially attempting to lynch him anyways?

i think the answer depends on the specifics of who the scumteam is, but still.

having the identity of one ostensible doctor be public is also valuable in organizing protections.

Exactly

and even if he has 1% of chance of being a doctor, I dunno about killing him today. After one doctor is dead the doctor/cop combo isn't really useful, but while the two doctor are alive, it's really mechanically good.

I'm glad we got out of that kind of arguing and got into this.

[Buki]

yeah like

i think that the scumteam probably cannot afford to keep a doctor alive, especially if we were to do something like buki suggested.

yeah it's kind of just not worth it

We would have two protects, and we can make a system where the cop doesn't even need to claim for us to know the result.

It's like

+++++++ town sided

[Buki]

Scum might try to WIFOM us by letting him alive 1 or 2 days, but until LyLo?

heh

we would have everyone copped

and if the cop dies, then we can discuss about what we should do.

[Buki]

To everyone not getting it:

While the two doctors are alive, the cop can be protected. If there's only one doctor, the cop can't be protected.

[Buki]

oh i actually forgot about that

don't think it changes much, though?

Not much but still

Two doctors alive is more valuable than one, not only because we can have two protects, but because we can also protect the cop.

Then...are we doing it?

[Buki]

You understand that claiming doc skyrockets his scum equity correct?

yeah but like

there is nightkills

and lynches

until day 3 he might be confirmed scum if he is lying

Until day 4 he is 100% confirmed scum if he is lying

As long as we focus on finding other two scum, I think we're good.

[Buki]

We can even make the cop check him but that would be kind of sub-optimal

[Buki]

WOAH WAIT

I HAVE AN IDEA

[Buki]

Holy shit. This might be one good idea.

What if we actually direct this like this:

We take 2 most scummy players.

After that, one of them claim "cop me" by their own, and the cop will check. (looks crazy right? but we can even get reads by this)

We direct the other two protects elsewhere.

Scum either needs to kill the confirmed town that before was lynchbait, or he needs to risk killing with 2 other protects around the players, all the while the cop can still be protected since there's 2 doctor alives.

I think it's like, a good idea. Maybe not so much. But still, any suggestions?

[Buki]

We would have either lynchbait taken care of

or conf town in the next days

Maybe we could change the "cop me" own claim, but what if we are telling the cop to cop themselves? scum could end up killing him trying to prevent conf town, but they would also take out the cop

By one of the two person claiming "cop me", we are sure that the lynchbait isn't a cop and therefore can dies later

[Buki]

i don't see what the difference is between this and the idea of just collectively deciding upon a single player that the cop targets. what's the purpose of taking two people and having one of them choose to be investigated?

avoid the cop being the target for copping.

because if that happens:

1. the cop will end up checking someone that we don't know of, and it can lead to afterwards we even repeating that name

2. avoids the cop being nk by scum trying to prevent conf town.

3. After the cop claims, we would have one more conf town than if we ever choose the cop to check themselves, since the cop can conf town themselves.

[Buki]

Like

we can kind of really solve the game mechanically as long as the two doctors are alive.

Also, the fewer people we have, easier is for the protects to work. And everytime the protect work, we have one more conf town.

Scum will end up losing if they think they can afford to let us have 2 doctors.

[Buki]

RC, I think my system might work better

otherwise it would even be confusing for the cop to know who to check since people might be conflicted between 2 checks.

That's also one of the reasons of the "cop me!"

[Buki]

Also there's a secret in that strategy but it's better to not say it until LyLo I think

it would make it useless

[Buki]

Dunno if I'll ever get to LyLo but anyway

[Buki]

avoid the cop being the target for copping.

this is desirable, but at the same time i feel like in the scenario you described scum would pretty much never choose to be copped. i guess it comes down to whether we care more about getting innos or guilties.

That's kind of true. But I feel like it doesn't really matter to be honest.

They would only be getting cornered. It doesn't really matter if the guilties begin to show up sooner or later. They are going to show up, and with this system we have more advantages.

[Buki]

Guiltying someone who would otherwise gets lynched gives zero town equity

You want to guilty someone who would endgame or inno someone who wouldn't

Yeah this also

I think that like

this is honestly a good strategy

[Buki]

As long as we follow it we either get scum all guilted with also lots of conftown

or they get rid of anyone that claims doctor.

haha

lol

[Buki]

Like, not only that

if scum ends up killing the doctors when shooting

the scum that already claimed doctor to avoid the lynch is basically guilted. And not only that, doctors stay out of anyone that claims doctor, so the chance of protecting cop is even higher.

But...the unique exception might be we need to lynch Shoshin/someone today don't matter what they claim.

We don't have lot of time here, and the playerlist isn't active at all...

[Buki]

Then like:

They either kill:

the PRs and get guilted

the conf town of that day

gets the kill docced and town gets to have one more conf town (Mechanical solve gets closer)

[Buki]

Yeah they can't afford to let doctors alive

but only lynch Wiz in the last moment anyway, they might try WIFOM doc claims.

[Buki]

Maybe we should even make a system of directing protects better but in day 2 we can talk/think about that

[Buki]

i'm not sure there's a better system than saying "wiz, protect this player, any other doctors protect that player"

I was thinking about using the playerlist to avoid doctors protecting the same person if Wiz happens to not be a doctor

but not really good ideas of yet

I'll think through the night and see if I come up with anything day 2 if I'm still alive

[Buki]

By using directions in the playerlist, only the doctor themselves would know who they would protect, and since everyone has a different position, it might always result in two different protects each night

but like

I've not fully got a good idea yet

later

Now we need to choose who to lynch I guess

[Buki]

And we afterwards even get to choose, if we don't mechanical mostly solve, who were the scummiest people put in the "cop block" that didn't claim "cop me!" in the end.

Also Cop, don't try to be smart and cop the person that didn't claim. It could reallllyyyyyyyyy fuck things up.

[Buki]

We're not doing this claim thing.
We're just leashing the cop and doccing it

what do you mean by leashing cop?

[Buki]

We agree that wizard + cop target a player

Silence is presumed inno

Well

I'm not really against this yeah

[Buki]

I wanted something to try to mechanically solve the game but I'm fine with the simple way

[Buki]

In that case, if someone ran up to L-1 claims doctor, do we let him alive and coordinate so that the most town read players get protected and scum is forced to either be guilted or to nightkill scummier players or...?

[Buki]

If we run up another doctor claim we speedlynched wizard

come on RC

I'm fine with taking a sub-optimal but simpler way

but that's too much sub-optimal I think.

[Buki]

How do we pr vent both docs from targeting the same person?

Without a playerlist scheme, if Wiz isn't a doctor we can't 100% prevent it. But it's improbably tonight, it's still early game.

[Buki]

I wanted to try to solve the game mostly mechanically though

it would be funny as hell to see what scum would do

would they try to take the risk of hitting a cop with 2 protects?

would they just kill the doctors?

would they kill the conf town of everyday?

There's even smart plays in this that of course I'm not going to talk about (not really a way to counter it though), but it really would be fun.

[Buki]

I'm signing up to play this setup again probably

and next time since d1 I'm pushing that scheme next game

just hope I don't roll scum

[Buki]

Actually...

I might or not have fallen in love with game mechanics...

Anyway, now that we aren't lynching Wiz RC, who are you up to lynch? Shoshin?

[Buki]

let's use the "heal" tag to select the cop check/Wiz doc?

I can do the cop check VCs

[Buki]

No heal tags

I don't get my wizard Lynch I decide the cop

seriously RC...?

I'm fine with it though, don't want to argue over anymore, and Egix is kind of a wild card right now.

Then the RC proposition is:

1. Cop checks Egix
2. If Egix is the cop, Egix checks Baezu
3. Wizard protects Egix

Does everyone agree? Please say so and fast. If not, make your own proposition and why (let's try to not be picky today, we only have 4 days).

[Buki]

Anyway, We need to also decide who the other doctor(s) should heal.

I vote NSG. It's a good enough day 1 town read of mine and she keep town cohesion.

If NSG hadn't been here we would have kept on with that shitshow.

[Buki]

Then if:

NSG dies and Wizard is confirmed scum

Egix dies and Wizard is confirmed scum

No guilty in day 2 and Egix is town. (note, even if he is cop, he is still town, and if he died and flipped cop, we would know also that Baezu is conf town).

[Buki]

Doctors should random between universal townreads

I dunno

NSG proposed this, and it's a way to 100% make sure that the town read doesn't die without scum getting guilted.

If we let them choose between universal town reads, scum can always claim "but I didn't town read X, but did town read Y" and etc

I think NSG idea is better in that aspect. If she dies, Wizard is scum.

[Buki]

I don't want to let wizard trade for nsg

Look, try to think about this:

Since we don't know if Wizard is doc or not, the other(s) doctor(s) are thinking "Do I heal X or not? What if the other doctor ends up healing X as well?"

And it might happen very often that:

1. None of them heal, let's say, NSG, because they think the other one will
2. Both of them heal, thinking that the other one won't

and...NSG dies without we gaining any info any way. There's no way to really 100% protect NSG anyway RC, we're just making a system that lets us gain info if we lose her.

[Buki]

I have given up in my idea

and have given up in choosing the cop checks

but I can't given up in, all doctors other than Wiz, healing NSG tonight.

If we don't do that, even if NSG dies, we gain nothing.

[Buki]

i would be fine with that.

what if we make it dependent on the flip? if shoshin flips scum then it's 100% on one person, and if she flips town then it's randomized?

I don't want to let wizard trade for nsg

Look, try to think about this:

Since we don't know if Wizard is doc or not, the other(s) doctor(s) are thinking "Do I heal X or not? What if the other doctor ends up healing X as well?"

And it might happen very often that:

1. None of them heal, let's say, NSG, because they think the other one will
2. Both of them heal, thinking that the other one won't

and...NSG dies without we gaining any info any way. There's no way to really 100% protect NSG anyway RC, we're just making a system that lets us gain info if we lose her.

We can make it depending on the flip, but it needs to be

100% if Shoshin town
and a 100% option if Shoshin is scum.

[Buki]

Randomized docs depend too much on luck and make us gain no info.

[Buki]

Whatever...let's make it randomized...

If anyone is still confused about anything:

1. Cop targets Egix tonight, if Egix is the cop then target Baezu
2. Wizard protects Egix tonight

Doctors other than Wizard:
1. If Shoshin flips scum, protect NSG
2. If Shoshin flips town, choose one in RC/NSG/Creature
-------------------------
If you're the cop and get a guilty result in Egix, claim cop and your guilty.
If you're the cop and get a innocent result in Egix, don't say anything, don't claim.