Newbie 1934: Tundra (Game Over)

[Voted]

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?

[Voted]

No, that's another forum, this is the jamitor interview, for jam makers

And where can I find the ja

n

itor forum? I really need the money!

[Voted]

Well, if you offer it, then I could concider it. what does the job consists of?

[Voted]

What is the colour of fruit? I don't want to be caught red-handed.

[Voted]

VOTE: thenavneet
Still being scum in every game?

[Voted]

thenavneet is in L-2, right? Lets put him on L-1 so we get from RVS
VOTE: thenavneet

[Voted]

thenavneet is in L-2, right? Lets put him on L-1 so we get from RVS
VOTE: thenavneet

E: forgot to add the signature so you don't lynch me for fakehammer

[Voted]

I would like to promise to post same reads tommorow so I dodge a prod/mislynch.

[Voted]

thenavneet is in L-2, right? Lets put him on L-1 so we get from RVS
VOTE: thenavneet

E: forgot to add the signature so you don't lynch me for fakehammer

I don’t get the e? Plus 61 is actually a double vote from 24 - what’s the point?

I din't wanted to get lynched for a joke.

[Voted]

I said that because I think acting apathetic can happen as either alignment but generally

trying to look town is something a good town wouldn't do

Why?

[Voted]

UNVOTE:
Lets do same reads. Actually, list of who I would like to see lynched D1. I will dismiss SEs, because I don't like lynching experienced players D1.
0/10=scum 10/10=town

thenavneet:

no scum hunting, no reads. 1/10

Menalque:

whole game was just pushing Eggs for the L-2/ L-1 thing. Got game from RVS by making wagoon. 3/10

Cinnamon:

having hard time reading this because of walls of text (hence the scatter). Tries to make SEs read each other, contributes his own reads, asks few quesstions 4-6/10

Uncle Bob:

not many reads, asks questions 4/10

Eggs:

I don't think that L-2/ L-1 thing was scum gambit. Too risky and unsure result. Posts same reads. No question except. 6/10

Spoiler:

One of these are probably scum, but I'm not sure which.

If you're right, I am sure which.

Oh the other hand, you

would

do that as scum. So I'm not sure you are.

Why is menalque scummy there please? Tone? Content? Motivation? Something else?

VOTE: thenavneet

[Voted]

That's L-1! No more votes.

[Voted]

Eggs posts reads. Menalque only pushed Eggs for only one thing. D1 you are only guessing who is scum so there is huge chance of mislynch (actually, I have never played a game where town would lynch scum D1). Mislynching good and active player hurts town a lot. Also, active scum can help town more than lurking town.

[Voted]

teacher - not posting many reads. Tries to make players post reads, argument their reads. For same reason, I like tone. 8/10
Irrelephant11 - reads, pushes scummy people so they post more. 7/10
Flavor Leaf - plenty of reads and thoughs, no questions, no deeper reads. 3-4/10

[Voted]

@mod we want also fauna on the pictures!

[Voted]

thenavneet is in L-2, right? Lets put him on L-1 so we get from RVS
VOTE: thenavneet

E: forgot to add the signature so you don't lynch me for fakehammer

I don’t get the e? Plus 61 is actually a double vote from 24 - what’s the point?

I din't wanted to get lynched for a joke.

This is weird. There's no rational reason to think that adding your signature makes you less likely to be lynched for fakehammer. Being particularly concerned about being lynched also seems scummy. Other players (i.e. Cinnamon, who I think is probably town) had what I thought was a more natural response in showing some concern about the logic for why they were being pushed for a lynch without seeming genuinely afraid of it. Likewise, when votes have come my way it hasn't particularly bothered me as I've assumed it was just to add pressure. At this point, voted wasn't really anywhere near at risk. Therefore the concern is excessive.

Adding my signature will make town aware that I knew it is

fake

, joke hammer so they won't lynch me for trying to hammer sameone and pretending I though I am putting him in L-1. I have experience from Town of Salem that making jokes whisout samewhat indicating there are jokes is enough to get me lynched - hence the need of "defence".

Actually, list of who I would like to see lynched D1. I will dismiss SEs, because I don't like lynching experienced players D1.

The consideration should not be "is this player experienced" but "has this player done things that seem scummy/that advance the ends of scum". Often, that may be harder to determine with an SE or they may avoid doing it too early on. But it's a bad policy to not consider SEs for a D1 Lynch. It seems scummy and like an attempt to get SEs on side, which also fittingly comes at a point, along with your general activity, when I think people were starting to view you more and more as scum.

Not wanting to lynch SEs and active/ eperienced players is my meta. NAI.

[Voted]

Town me
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=79415
Scum me
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=79452

I played both games with same playstyle.

[Voted]

Adding my signature will make town aware that I knew it is

fake

, joke hammer so they won't lynch me for trying to hammer sameone and pretending I though I am putting him in L-1. I have experience from Town of Salem that making jokes whisout samewhat indicating there are jokes is enough to get me lynched - hence the need of "defence".


Not wanting to lynch SEs and active/ eperienced players is my meta. NAI.

(1) I don't see how you can reasonably think anyone would (a) think that you were legitimately hammering someone, especially when you'd already voted and people were making jokes about L-X (or not, as I still think is probably in the case of Eggs). Also, (b) that was literally like page 2 of this thread. You were not in any meaningful danger of being lynched, so why were you concerned? Nav seemed much more natural to me, as he knew that his wagon wasn't going anywhere at that point. The fact that you're claiming you were worried about an actual case being built up around you at that point is way more indicative of scum than town to me.

(2) Saying it's your meta doesn't just give you a free pass. You used the same logic in the game you linked where you were town which you *checks notes* lost. So unless you feel like providing an actual refutation of why your logic here is good (despite leading you to a lost game where you didn't want to lynch SEs and then *checks notes again* you lost as both SEs were mafia) then you absolutely don't get a free pass.

(3) I also notice that you didn't even try to refute my point about how terrible the logic is behind active scum being better than lurky town.

Oh, and I think your meta overall also seems to be closer to your scum game than to your town game.

(1) (a) he could think that I was thinking that I am hammering him - that I forgot about my previous vote. (b) I was not in danger of being lynched/ becoming suspectious for whatever I would post in page 3?

(2) I give free pass to active/ experienced people only day 1. The day 1 lynch is not perfect; it has huge chance of lynching town. You can either:
D1 lynch scummier, good scum hunter
D2 lynch slighty less scummy inactive townie

or

D1 lynch slighty less scummy inactive townie
D2 lynch scummier, good scum hunter which can at least before getting lynched give you same reads if town

I expect SEs to be (statistically) better scummy hunters than newbies.

(3) Active scum can slip. Have fun town reading unresponsive, lurking player.

Edit: thanks for the prod.

[Voted]

Got game from RVS by making wagoon.

This is included in your second highest scum ranking. Why is exiting RVS/making wagons a bad thing?

That got him from 1-2/10 rating.

[Voted]

About what?

[Voted]

1) My posts have been mainly focused on the SEs because I think it would be useful to discuss the SEs - there hasn't been too much discussion over their play so far and they are posting a lot. In addition, some of the other players aren't really giving off reads right now.

2) For instance, I am not sure why there are quite a few town reads on thenavneet right now. From what they've said, I don't see anything that I would consider really townie. If I was to townread them it would really be me sheeping other players. I'd love to hear more from him.

I do like what Menalque is saying, his ideas make sense to me. I have a town read on him so far.

1) Why scummy? I don't like lynching experienced players, but that doesn't mean that I scumread anyone who pushes them.
2) I agree

[Voted]

1) Agreed, I quite liked the spirit of enquiry there - for reference, yes, this was intentionally a leading question, was trying to gauge if you were going to go along with stuff.
2) regardless of whether you agree, do you think this comes from scum or town?

Any of cinnamon's posts stick out to you?

Nope. Nothing stands out. At least I didin't notice anything.

[Voted]

Did you really expect me to try to lynch my strongest town read?

[Voted]

Menal, there’s scum in one of the SE’s.

Could you more elaborate?

[Voted]

Can I heavy push this, please?

[Voted]

Friendly reminder, I am L-1. Vote on me is hammer.

[Voted]

Hey everyone!

I'm replacing thenavneet. I'm working on getting caught up now.

[Voted]

Hey everyone!

I'm replacing thenavneet. I'm working on getting caught up now.

Raya, do you know why I bolded it?

[Voted]

Why do you scumread me? You haven't posted reasons.

Whats wrong about claiming that I didn't conjure the anti-SE-day-1-lynch thing this game, but I am merely keeping it from past games? Why is it an irrelevant defence? I even used the very same defence in game with Eggs where I was town.

[Voted]

Voted for me was a good wagon because I found him hard to read and thought his actions and posts were not really trying to help town. I'm still not sold on him, but I think it would be useful to switch my vote to naya because that intro along with the actions of thenavneet look quite suspicious

and this wagon could provide a lot of useful information.

VOTE: Raya

For example? I could pretty much bus him. Sameone who TRed him could try to help him. Sameone who didn't mention him at all could be happy that he is not being pushed right now...

[Voted]

I though that you wanted to lynch him also because it would give lots of information (which I understood more than mine or your). I was curious.

[Voted]

Intent to hammer

VOTE: Teacher

L-1 folks

Hm, I kind of feel like this might be serious...newbscum tell?

Both jokes. What is wrong?

[Voted]

Back!

Well, I wouldn't mind having two people play for one slot. Could be interesting.

[Voted]

Would help if sameone declared intent to hammer and

moderator early prodded

[Voted]

Understanding at least part would, nevertheless, be helpful.

[Voted]

25 pages? OK, I have same catching. I think I saw samething about me claiming. Now. Is it still requested? I think that it is just giving free information to mafia.
Anyone wanting from me samething other?

[Voted]

Lol
I was giving Voted a juicy wagon and seeing if he’d take it
He didn’t even touch it
(..)

@FL, why would scum!Irrelephand do that?

[Voted]

FL is trying to put other SEs in 1v1, while both refuses to do so (did I get this right?)
If so, then it is very likely that Teacher and Irrelephant have same alignment.

[Voted]

To paint you as scum if town you took it...?

Town me would take a wagoon of my strongest townread?

[Voted]

LF tries to put 1v1 between Irrelephant and Teacher, they both refuses to go in 1v1 and does not scum read FL.

I honestly think they are both town. Again, why are you so strongly going against other SEs? Because you think they must be coaching newbies to not look scummy?

[Voted]

VOTE: Irrelephant

[Voted]

Pine, you around?

[Voted]

VOTE: Pine

L-1

Your slot soft claimed jailkeeper. Do you have samething to add?

[Voted]

Well, you pretty much know you role, don't you?

[Voted]

You are L-1. You have word of 3 other players that your slot is in troubles and should claim.

[Voted]

Hard claim*

[Voted]

Freud rears his ugly head.

Raya (not Voted) should claim. I will repost my vote in appr 15 hours.

.

[Voted]

Yeah, but who else is the lynch today? Irrelephant is totally less scummy than Pine slot. Might as well claim now than 10 minutes before deadline. Also the less information Pine has for claim, the harder to fake claim.

@Pine
At least respond me this. Are you a jailkeeper? Yes or no.

[Voted]

Well, I tried. I other game I played FormerFish did samething similar and made my scum partner panic. He didn't even read ISO of his slot.
@Cinnamon, thanks for putting lots of pressure away with your posts.

[Voted]

Can I heavy push this, please?

If you think it's something worth pushing, by all means you should do it.

Well, that was what I ment with having pushing.

[Voted]

@Cinnamon, what exactly made Irrelephant in front of Pine where it comes to scumminess? I know you were inclined for it for a while, but I am interested in the trigger.

[Voted]

Okay, can I scumhunt in peace now?

Yep, we will let you rest in peace.

[Voted]

Ironically what I previously said about Flavor and Eggs has much more application here I feel; the apathetic lack of posting coming from the Pine slot could be from town or scum (though I am slightly more inclined to believe it is coming from scum) whereas I think Irrelephant is really trying to look towny but is not saying things that make sense coming from a

town mindset

.

I don't like that you use even same words as FL.
I think I will ask you to elaborate with examples so you just don't ctrl+c ctrl+v FL.

[Voted]

I am samewhat catching towny vibes from irrelephant; I townread him. The vote on him was reaction test (yes, I like doing gambits a lot)

[Voted]

Spoiler:

Assume SEs replaces 10% time and newbies 40%. Town and maf are equivally likely to replace. Statistically in 100 games:
20 SE + 280 newbie replaces=300 replacements.

300/36=8.3 games have 2 mafia SEs (1.66 maf replaces)
1800/36=50 games have 1 newbie and 1 SE as replacement (20+5=25 maf replaces)
1500/36=41.7 games have 2 newbie mafia (33.36 maf replaces)
In total out of 300 replaces there will be 60 maf replaces

Town: 700 players, 240 replaces: replaces in 34%
Scum: 200 placers, 60 replaces: replaces in 30%

Please, distinguish newbies and SEs.

[Voted]

OK, so I've read back through. Here's what I will say:

First, I feel like the last 300 posts has just split up town. I attribute alot of that to Flavor's push on both Elephant and me -- it was gamechanging, a very different but logical take that forced many slots to react. It kicked Elephant out of what had been almost a mayor slot of leading the game, and forced many slots to reexamine their previous townleans. I also shared, at an emotional level, Elephant's reaction. It was a perplexing push to counter because it was so different than my take on the game (my readslist was essentially inverted to his) while also making sense on a surface level.

Second, I feel decently confident that Elephant is town. I have followed his play and his gambits all game, and think they are town advancing, More to the point, however, I have shared his mindset and vibes as well. We are approaching the game in a similar way, with similar reads and reactions. I know that reads does not equal alignment, but I do think reactions do.

Third, that does not mean I think Flavor is scum. I cant read him, and do not want him lynched at all. I can certainly see scum motivation for this play -- breaking up town, casting suspicion on SEs who are generally decent town players. But I can also see a hell of a lot of town motivation -- a logical read of the gamestate that generates quite a bit of informative reactions. I really do want Flavor to respond to Menalque's questions on his approach that I expanded upon in 722

Fourth, as the first point suggests, I think the main mission for the rest of the day has to be rebuilding a townblock. I would LOVE if people would get out of their scum!tunnels and started to try to actively find, bond, and form consensus with those who they think are town, and questioning others (even if not their desired lynch) for more information to analyze after flips. Here, for me, I town Menalque, Elephant, Eggs, and Cinnamon. I lean Voted that way, and am null on Flavor. I want Pine to eat rope, and lean scum on Baezu as well. I am still waiting for Baezu to answer 591. 592, and 595

Finally, I find the lack of attention given to Bob/Baezu's slot AND THE WAGONS perplexing. I just addressed Bob/Baezu. The wagon point is that almost all wagons this game have consisted of the same players:

• Navneet 65: Voted. Irrelephant11, Menalque, Eggs
  
• Voted 300: Irrelephant11, Menalque, Cinnamon, teacher [Eggs was here before me, but switched to me on what he said was a reaction test)
  
• Raya 407 and 604: Voted, Cinnamon, Irrelephant, and (Menalque/teacher, depending on when)
  
• Current raya (no VC): Irrelephant, Voted, Eggs, Cinnamon

I like lynching Raya, because I think a green flip clears Voted pretty hardcore given that the same wagon was on him, and definitely confirms scum in [Cinnamon/Elephant/me]. That is incredibly helpful to me because Im town on both of them right now, and would be forced to reexamine. It would also vault Flavor way up in my reads, both for pushing so hard and also for his theory being right. On the other hand, a red flip I think essentially clears all of Voted, Cinnamon, Irrelephant, and me, creating an incredibly strong townblock to win the game.

OK. So you town

lean

me.
If Raya is scum -> it makes me town
If Raya is town -> it makes me town

Am I missing samething? Why only lean?

[Voted]

Fuck pretty sure that's hammer. I'll try to get summaries of my reads up before Ausuka locks the thread. I'm only about a third of the way through, nothing solid yet, except that one big scumvibe from Irrelephant. Pretty sure I'm being quicklynched here to silence me.

I started to think that you were town when you didn't fall in pressure trap. But this smells like a scum gambit.

[Voted]

It's fake. I wanted to show that when you don't distinguish SEs and newbies (in condition newbies are more/ less likely to get replaced than SEs) you will have more inaccurate data.

[Voted]

It's fake. I wanted to show that when you don't distinguish SEs and newbies (in condition newbies are more/ less likely to get replaced than SEs) you have more inaccurate data.

When I though that I had mastered conditionals...

[Voted]

Yeah, should have striked me that the difference is too small.

[Voted]

What does mean SvS?

[Voted]

So Irrelephant and Teacher are doing samething like scum vs scum, but you vote me?

[Voted]

My point was more that seems an odd way to speak as it would imply that you’re a PR or scum. However, in either case you don’t seem the type to accidentally mention it. Hence the question.

Well, here’s the thing.

If I’m a PR, i want scum to think I’m a VT.

If I’m VT, i want scum to think I’m a PR.

However, by acting like I’m trying to pretend I’m a PR, scum will likely think I’m just trying to act like I’m a PR, while actually a VT, so I start to do that as a PR, and vice versa.

Does this make sense?

And if you are scum, do you want town think you are PR or VT?

[Voted]

I mean, yeah, Voted just needs to say if he has an inno on me or not, then end this day with my lynch.

DO NOT LYNCH BAEZU BEFORE EGGS/TEACHER.

I haven't visited FL. I started to heavy town read him. I don't want to claim right now, but

if

I were PR, I would probably track cimnamon.

[Voted]

That being said, and not breaking my soft PR claim, which can even be fake, I would like to lynch either Eggs or Baezu today.
I would also like to encourage others to tell town who would visit if they were investigative PR. This allows town to not lose PR results if PR is night killed.

[Voted]

If I were PR, I would have visited Eggs.
Vote: Baezu
I think this is one of the settings where to use pseudovotes?

[Voted]

Actually, I *claim* investigative PR. I believe we are in column C.
I also believe that: cop, tracker, jailor, neapolitan should claim if there is any.

[Voted]

Eggs and Cinnamon are town.
I am as well.

[Voted]

Why exactly is Baezu mechtown?

[Voted]

I am fine with being the 1st lynch, but I want to see claims from everyone before getting mislynched.

[Voted]

Hold your horses!

[Voted]

Baezu, claim now, I don't want to end up in 1v1 with you tommorow.

[Voted]

Cool, I am Cop.
So, lets lynch Teacher. If he is jailor, lynch me, if not, lynch Baezu.
VOTE: Teacher

[Voted]

Voted softed JK really hard yesterday though

JK? Where?

[Voted]

Ff I were PR, I would probably track cimnamon.

I messed up the confiftional and should have put here the 3rd one?

[Voted]

I though I said who I trackED.

[Voted]

No point I guess. If he is scum, he can't save himself.

[Voted]

Unless he claims anything but jailor/ cop and forces you to lynch me or you lynch Baezu and he CCs me with Jailor/ Cop claim.

[Voted]

I haven't visited FL. I started to heavy town read him. I don't want to claim right now, but

if

I were PR, I would probably track cimnamon.

This implies future tense. For this sentence to work in past tense it would be something like "I don't want to claim right now, but if I were PR, I would have tracked cinnamon" you need the past participle

Ehhh, I can see the point now. I forgot to put have there.
Thank you, you maked my english gooder.

[Voted]

I soft claimed tracker yesterday, hard claimed cop today.
VOTE: Baezu

[Voted]

If this isn't scum, the lynch tomorrow is always teacher

Yes! I checked both, Eggs and Cimnamon - town.

[Voted]

Why did you kill Irrelephant and not me N2?
Heh, I am glad that all my strongest townreads (SEs) were correct.

[Voted]

I would have claimed tracker, not cop if I were to claim D2. Since there were 2 goons, I wouldn't get killed anyway.

[Voted]

If y'all liked the small playerlist, but want a wide variety of setups - check out the Micro Queue, where all games are 9 players or less! Right now skygazer's Black Site is in signups - NOTE: It uses the Geriatric Ruleset, which limits how often you are allowed post, to allow for a slower game that is easier to keep up with.
It just so happens there's also a 9-player game in signups in the Normal Queue, where the setups are hidden but follow Official Normal Setup Guidelines. Sign up soon, it's filling fast!
And what a coincidence, there's a 9-player game in the Open Queue, where all setups are public information. Grey Flag Nightless makes small changes to some basic rules of mafia, and there are no power roles.

You are not required to have any number of finished games to join these or other queues, so check them out! If you want to play another game with me, the one game I'm in signups for is Schadd's Mystery Box of Silver 5, a large theme game with a heavy third party (alignments other than town or mafia) element. Schadd is notorious for making setups that are impossible to predict and that lead to gameplay that is equally unpredictable. It's a HUGE jump from the newbie queue, but it's never too early to get absolutely in over your head

Must play games with Irrelephant for this kind of posts. Must.

[Voted]

Claiming cop has "potential" of perma RB/ instant nightkill.
Tracker claim at least gives 1 night of results.